User talk:ChildofMidnight: Difference between revisions

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			Child, take a look what has happened to the No Gun Ri (Massacre) page. Then look at edits. Feb and March "CJHanley" is the same Hanley mentioned in the article itself. Excised all materials about himself, etc. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 12:11, 28 May 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
	'''Misplaced Pages is vandalised and biased by cliques of agenda driven editors censoring those they disagree with and distorting our article content in order to impose their personal beliefs on everyone else. Anyone who tries to correct inaccuracies, balance coverage, or uphold the core neutral point of view policy and its requirement that we include a variety of notable viewpoints is stalked, harassed, and intimidated into silence. This thuggish behavior and the disgusting damage it does to the integrity of Misplaced Pages has been encouraged by dishonest and corrupt admins. It has also been condoned by an incompent arbcom committee that can’t be bothered to enforce our most basic and fundamental policies and values. '''
	<BR>

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	== Subterfuge ==

			<center>The ] was a massive success with four Good Articles (GAs) produced, lots of photographs and an illustrious porkasmorg of DYKs for ] on March 1... and in dribs and drabs after as even more DYKs keep coming, so keep your eyes peeled for more bacon. The final scoring for the (first ever) ] are still being tabulated. <small>And the ] has officially kicked off for sign-ups and new bacon article idea submissions!!!</small></center>
	Compared to most people in the community, I agree with you. Hell, I even think that Mantanmoreland shouldn't have been run off of the project, and I spend a long time working to prove his socking. We literally cannot stop socking from happening, and I think it's much better to have people edit with stable accounts—the devils we know, after all. I just draw the line on people who aren't ready to give up their games. I just think it's clear that he's not done gaming. I'd bet a week's wages that he's still running another account. ] '']'' 02:53, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
			<BR><BR>
	:I can eat fifty eggs! <sup><small><font color="green">]</font></small></sup><sub style="margin-left:-4.2ex;"><small><font color="blue">]</font></small></sub> 03:09, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
			<center>'''The prophetic view of a heavenly-anointed master of rhetorical interaction and richochetotry (aka ])'''</center>
	::Heh. I don't know if I can eat 50 eggs, but I've often got nuthin'. ] '']'' 03:13, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
			:] ] in ] form — noting that when someone knows enough about '''rhetoric''' to know where the ]s are, he or she can attempt to turn it down, but not before. {serious ]}
	:::Nobody can eat 50 eggs. ] (]) 03:20, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
			<br>
	::::Well, sometimes nuthin's a . . . <sup><small><font color="green">]</font></small></sup><sub style="margin-left:-4.2ex;"><small><font color="blue">]</font></small></sub> 03:21, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
			<big><Center><U>Midnight Comes</U></center></big>
	:::::Real <s>good</s> cool hand? ] (]) 04:11, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
			<br>
	::::::Almost ;) <sup><small><font color="green">]</font></small></sup><sub style="margin-left:-4.2ex;"><small><font color="blue">]</font></small></sub> 04:12, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
			<poem>
	:::::::Interesting. I don't think I <s>ever realized</s> remembered that was where the name of the movie came from. ] (]) 04:20, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
			<font color=gray><small>{CoM.001.01}</small> ____</font> WHEN GANGS OF BULLIES gather, Midnight comes
	::::::::That's cuz yer really not that smart. ]<sub> ] ]</sub> 06:59, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
			<font color=gray><small>{CoM.001.02}</small> ____</font> destabilizing bullshit with her own.
	:::::::::You got ], Law? ] '']'' 14:55, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
			<font color=gray><small>{CoM.001.03}</small> ____</font> The truth is wasted on the nasty bums
	::::::::::Some men you just can't reach. ] (]) 23:33, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
			<font color=gray><small>{CoM.001.04}</small> ____</font> who fill up '''"ad hoc firing squads"''' well known ...

			<font color=gray><small>{CoM.001.05}</small> ____</font> ... at ANI — which gives the vile a role
	::::I ], and ] eat fifty eggs. '']]<span style="color:DarkOrange">Chequers''</span> 15:24, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
			<font color=gray><small>{CoM.001.06}</small> ____</font> with T-shirts marked "community" to wear.
			<font color=gray><small>{CoM.001.07}</small> ____</font> Decision on the facts is not the goal.
			<font color=gray><small>{CoM.001.08}</small> ____</font> '''Humiliation''' is. No, not "what's fair."

			<font color=gray><small>{CoM.001.09}</small> ____</font> Some vague aspersion cast is made to stick
	*What .. we got here, is a failure, ... (I'll let someone else fill in the links and blanks) ;) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 15:35, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
			<font color=gray><small>{CoM.001.10}</small> ____</font> by snowball bullshit that's then packed on top.
			<font color=gray><small>{CoM.001.11}</small> ____</font> Antagonizing target till they're sick
			<font color=gray><small>{CoM.001.12}</small> ____</font> with '''social blows''' which no one will make stop.

			<font color=gray><small>{CoM.001.13}</small> ____</font> '''THEN ChildofMidnight comes and says: FUCK THAT!'''
	== Tagging ==
			<font color=gray><small>{CoM.001.14}</small> ____</font> (No matter if you're Wales or Bureaucrat.)
			</poem>
			<BR><BR>
			I have had tears of ] come to my eyes ] an ] remembering ChildofMidnight in ] — defending someone while they slept, leaving them ] from harm until they arrived, and found nothing they needed to do. The ] had ]. And by the way, ] ] sent me here to say this, ] and ]. Have a care with ChildofMidnight — ] comes ... sooner than you think. {Serious smile}<br>
			-- ] <sup>(])</sup> 10:15, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

			Users who endorse this summary:
	I think that has just the right number of article issue tags.--] (]) 23:22, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
			# ]
	:Awesome. I posted it to ANI for the inspiration of other good faith editors who may not be using tags to their full effect. ] (]) 23:32, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
			# ]
	::I don't think an ANI post was required.--] (]) 17:10, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
			# ], Oh Mi (on loan from Proofreader77 who has 11 more)
	:::Yeah, it didn't go over well. Oops. ] (]) 17:14, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
			# <Additional signatories removed to protect the innocent and not so innocent>
			<table width=500 ><tr><td bgcolor=black>
			{\| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color:#000000;"
			\|rowspan="2" valign="middle" \|]
			\|rowspan="2" \|
			\|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;background-color:#000000;" \| <font color=white>'''The Barnstar of Integrity'''</font>
			\|-
			\|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" \| <font color=white>For balancing the scales amidst the flames. </font><font color=indigo>] (]) 21:38, 25 November 2009 (UTC)</font>
			\|}
			</td></tr></table>

			<big><center>'''In Other News'''</center></big>
	== ] ==
			'''THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU to everyone who participated in ]!!!!''' There are still a lot of holes in our coverage, but a lot of progress was made in ringing up some great content fillings!!! ''Is there anything they can't do?''

			]]]
	Why isn't there an article on climate change modeling? Isn't that a pretty big and important subject? Is it under a different title? ] (]) 18:44, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
	:I guess because one does not model change one models climates to predict change? ] ]? --] ] 18:48, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
	::I went ahead and redirected ] to ]. That way, people won't hit a redlink if they search for it, and they'll be directed to our existing information on the topic. ''']''' <sup>]</sup> 18:54, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
	:::Thanks MastCell. I'm still very surprised there isn't an article on climate change modeling. I think there's an important distinction between climate modeling and climate change modeling, even as they are related. People model climates and try to predict weather patterns, but this isn't the same thing as modeling climate changes that are systemic. Climate change modeling has to incorporate dyamisms and accelerations that a climate model doesn't. The erath's climates aren't static by nature, but the factors related to the change are quite critical. ] (]) 19:31, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
	::::Sorry, but you're wrong in this case. There's absolutely no difference between a climate model and a climate change model other than the specification of GHG concentrations. They're exactly the same code. ] (]) 19:34, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
	:::::What is GHG? If what you say is true, that's very disturbing. Understanding how a climate operates and understanding how changes to a climate system effect climate are not the same thing. ] (]) 19:47, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
	::::::GHG = greenhouse gas. I know less than nothing about climate modeling, but part of the reason to model ''anything'' is that you can then change parameters in the model and see how other parameters are affected. So a "climate model" and a "climate change model" are probably semantically the same. ''']''' <sup>]</sup> 20:12, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
	:::::::@MastCell, yes, thanks for explaining. Apologies for lapsing into jargon. @ CoM: The physical principles that govern fluid dynamics and thermodynamics don't change when the concentrations of greenhouse gases increase (or decrease). Perhaps this should be moved from William's talk -- your place or mine? ] (]) 20:18, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
	::::::::I see your point. But it still seems a bit like the difference between addressing something in two dimensions or three dimensions. Or leaving out or adding a variable in a math problem. A climate model and a climate change model aren't necessarily addressing the same thing. To use another metaphor (that may or may not be helpful) it's like discussing velocity as opposed to acceleration. Dynamisms and feedbacks over time are critical to a climate change model, but a climate model may just look at an annual cycle and normal fluctuations that occur year to year. If the earth slowed its spin, or solar radiation didn't just fluctuate but changed directionally, or the greenhouse gas component is materially altered, then that may change how the system itself is set up. But back to how this is covered on Misplaced Pages, can we at least separate out a ] article from ]? The ] (where climate modeling currently redirect) is only one model and there are regional models and other types of climate modeling are there not? ] (]) 20:41, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
	:::::::::I'll try to explain as a non-climatologist (Boris - correct me if you are watching and I am wrong; I think I have the gist of it if it is anything like the models I use). A general circulation model (or global climate model) is largely a bookkeeping system for mass and heat transport. The idea behind them is to be a physically accurate model of how processes on the Earth operate. This is why the same kind of GCM is usable for many scenarios: they are entirely based on laws of physics, and the inputs and outputs play in the model with respect to those bounds. If a certain input term is large, it will not change the backbone structure. Feedbacks would occur when an input term causes another input term to be activated (e.g., greenhouse gas - induced warming leading to arctic methane release leading to more greenhouse gases, etc.). Does this make sense? It's like the inputs are kindergartners, and the model is a gymnasium in which they are required to act and interact in ways that obey the laws of mechanics and thermodynamics. And the scientist gets to choose which kindergartners to put in the gymnasium.
	:::::::::For that reason, it is 100% ''not'' the difference between velocity and acceleration, in which transferring from one to the other adds or removes information (the constant of integration) and the value in question fundamentally changes. Perhaps a better analogy that is still close to what you say could be that the model is an operator which acts on the input. ] (]) 00:42, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

			'''Sign in drive 2009''': Please leave your mark on the ]
	== Ahem... ==

			<BR>
	you've gone too far. ] (]) 21:48, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
	:That IP traces to Virginia. Isn't that where Tarc lives? You're going to get me in trouble Doc because I'm not sure I'm even allowed to use the O word, and I don't mean Oprah or Ontario. One must not talk about him in vain, apparently. I walk on eggshells, he walks on water. For all I know I'll be blocked for commenting in the ] AfD discussion because one of el presidente's kids is taking karate lessons. ] (]) 21:59, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

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	Check out ], ], ], and ]. Since those articles are created by you they are ''probably'' not about notable subjects, so I didn't remove the recently added tags. Hey, I got some myself too! (Check my history.) ] (]) 05:42, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
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	:Groupies! I notice the deleted article on Toe Hole, or whatever that group is called, still replaces your user page now and again. You mentioned something about blocking me Doc, but of course you need to run the RfA gauntlet first! What's taking so long? ] (]) 16:31, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
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	::Oh, nothing--I'm just scared! Oh, I see what you mean now--I have been missing a whole lot of vandalism on my user page. Haven't checked for toeholes yet, since I'm off to edit war again! Later! (No I'm taking a nap.) ] (]) 18:16, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
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	== Talking ==

	You seem to feel that I don't talk to you enough . But then you do stuff like this . I've already told you that you can't have it both ways. I can't force you to be polite. But I can and will refuse to converse with you on my talk page while you remain rude ] (]) 07:05, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
	:I was trying to discuss ] (a redirect to the Global Climate Model) with you. My understanding was that you had some expertise on that subject. If you don't want to engage in collegial discussion with me related to article work, okay. People have disagreements sometimes and I like to leave differences in the past. If you want to hold a grudge and remain bitter, there's not much I can do about it. I don't have any problem with you other than requesting that you be more collaborative and respectful of your fellow editors. ] (]) 16:30, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

	== Escalating dispute? ==

	Please tell me how I escalated the dispute since it started before January? It deals with multiple pages without any relationship between then except the same group of people using inappropriate tactics. I am also not the only one this has happened to by that group. ] (]) 17:07, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
	:What are the other disputes? The one I saw was over a particular description of Oscar Wilde. If you insist on following through with Arbcom I suspect you will be restricted. That's what they do. They stop activity that's become disruptive by sanctioning whoever is at the center of it. Their investigations and decisions have very little to do with who's right or wrong. And they don't do much to untie knots. They simply smoosh whoever is "causing" the problem. Your approach is pretty confrontational Ottava and the feuding has spread to numerous boards. So I'm suggesting you slow down a bit and try to sort some of the disputes out by getting outside opinions or let them go. ] (]) 17:14, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
	::. I also mentioned it at the ANI thread and on other threads. It seems like few of the responders want to actually read the links given which show a very long history of problematic actions. I have been receiving prompting from dozens of people to take this to ArbCom for the past month. I have sent many emails to Arbitrators from the beginning of the recent reoccurance of the problems. This is not something I do lightly or without advice. ] (]) 17:19, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
	:::What outcome would you desire from Arbcom? You're making accusations against several editors, and my experience suggests that our consensus guidelines tend to favor whoever has numbers. I have limited experience with the Fringe board, but I my experience make me tend to be sympathetic towards your complaints. But your go it alone strategy doesn't seem prudent to me and I don't see an outcome that's going to be contructive to your interests. If you'd like more independent eyes on those boards and opinions on the disputes why not ask for that? Isn't that how disputes are worked out here? Arbcom looks at behavior and hands down sanctions. So what sanctions would be appropriate? You already have Jehochman, who is a very experienced editors, trying to put you under editing restrictions. The course you're taking doesn't seem like one with an outcome that's going to be favorable to you or the encyclopedia. ] (]) 17:25, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
	::::The outcome I want is simply - probation and desysopping. All of them who are admins have abused their authority and used the position in order to further intimidation. A probation would be to keep them from backing each other up in such a manner with 24 hour blocks if they continue to do so. They have abused consensus, pushed things that were directly against policy, and caused many problems with their actions. If you think that allowing that group to continue to operate in the manner they do is favorable to the encyclopedia, then you haven't looked at what they have been doing. ] (]) 17:42, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
	::::By the way, "go it alone"? Where did you get that idea? I constantly work with dozens of editors when I write my pages, and I was not the only one attacked. At the Persian Empire page, they first pulled their games in edit warring against Wizardman even though he told them what they were doing lacked consensus. ] (]) 17:43, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
	:::::By "go it alone" I was referring to your Arbcom request. I reiterate my suggestion that you try to resolve the disputes by bringing in a broader sample of opinion and using dispute resolution means that are content focused rather than enforcement and behavior focused. You seem adamant about pursuing an arbcom hearing, but their decision is likely to be adverse to your editing interests as much as anyone elses. ] (]) 17:48, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
	::::::So, you want me to get a bunch of people to meat puppet for me at my ArbCom request when I am putting it up solely because others do the same to me? ] (]) 17:59, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
	:::::::Ottava, have I said or suggested that anywhere? My suggestion is to withdraw the Arbcom request because it escalates the dispute and is unlikely to bring about a helpful outcome. You've brought attention to the disputes and the issues of concern. Now try to work through them calmly and respectfully. Escalating confrontations, as you now seem to be trying to do with me, isn't always helpful and can become self-defeating. If you insist on following through at Arbcom that's up to you. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm just offering my opinion and some suggestions.
	:::::::I understand you're frustrated and I've tried to note that I respect where you're coming from and that I think you have some legitimate concerns. My issue is with your approach to get the situation improved. Arbcom and enforcement noticeboards result in long drawn out drama fests, when I think your best interest is in getting assistance resolving the content disputes so you can get back to article editing. I understand that cabals of editors and/or admins can be problematic, but a large scale confrontation with several editors is also problematic. They have a right to be here and to edit also. So the solution is to get all of you to deescalate and to work through the disagreements appropriately without personal attacks or incivility so we can all focus on collegial collaboration and improving the encyclopedia. ] (]) 18:09, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
	::::::::CoM, please read my statement at Arbcom. Since before last January, a group of editors have been joining together and causing problems. They have used their group to intimidate and bully others in order to push views that directly contradict our policies. It has come to ANI and other places many, many times. I have also had many direct communications with Arbitrators over the matter since the beginning of September because of their edit warring on Persian Empire and other problems. I have been told by over 25 people through email, messenger, IRC, and the rest that ArbCom is necessary and that I should do so. I was only holding back because I wanted to finish the WikiCup and real life matters. However, they continue to cause disruptions so it needs to end via ArbCom. You don't seem to understand the issue if you can think it is capable of "deescalating". A group of 8 people do not simply back down. ] (]) 18:14, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
	:::::::::Good luck Ottava. I appreciate your taking the time to discuss the issue with me. I don't like your odds. But I'll be folowing the matter with interest. ] (]) 18:17, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
	::::::::::There was massive edit warring and a major page is gone because of it, so, there is a lot of content damage they are responsible for and ArbCom has known about it for a while. I am sure the bravado of a few people will be ignored and the actual case will be focused on. ] (]) 18:34, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
	:::::::::::If you don't think that page should be deleted I suggest posting a neutrally worded request for outside opinions on the content noticeboard. I don't see how Arbcom can desysop of ban those editors over it. Their close collaboration may be problematic, but I don't see particular behaviors that are punishable. And as far as addressing the disruption related to the disputes, you're likely to bear the brunt of any enforcement actions. ] (]) 18:40, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

	:CoM - there were two consensus gatherings. There was edit warring for multiple weeks. There were long term attacks by them on multiple pages, and that was not the only page they operated in that manner on. The reason why it was noticed is that Persian Empire is a major page where they previously kept most of it to obscure pages. It was also noticed because one of the users, Wizardman, was an arbitrator and not just some new person that could have been bullied out of existence like they did before. However, it deals with many, many pages besides just one. ] (]) 19:11, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
	::If there's edit warring the page can be protected while additional opinions are sought. A straw poll or other consensus determining method is implemented. Your approach to editing tends to be confrontational. That sometimes happens when people get frustrated, but several editors have suggested you tone it down. If you aren't willing to do that and escalate to the Arbcom proceeding I think you will be sanctioned. I'm familiar with the problems associated with packs of editors trying to impose their POVs (see top of my talk page) but there's no magic wand that Arbcom can wave to solve the problem. ] (]) 19:15, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
	:::There was a straw poll - no consensus to change the page. Followed by edit warring. Followed by protection. Followed by straw poll - no consensus to change the page. Followed by edit warring. Followed by protection. New straw poll shows no consensus to change the page and they edit warred it out again. Child of Midnight, please actually look into things instead of just responding without. ] (]) 19:53, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

	== Thanks ==

	Thanks for your comments I hope it has the right effect. I used WP:3RR in an attempt to highlight a problem. I don't respond to personal attacks anymore, or posts containing them. The level of and the non-stop is just mind bending. At least one Admin suggested that or removed, your approch would be equally welcome if it has the effect your hoping for. Thanks, --<font face="Celtic">]<sub>'']''</sub></font> 20:00, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

	:As I thought, , regardless of what editors are asked, the accusations keep on coming! --<font face="Celtic">]<sub>'']''</sub></font> 20:04, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
	::Those articles seem to be very contentious. Frustrations are obviously high all around. I agree that the confrontational approach and personal attacks aren't helping. Could you be a little more thorough in addressing the concerns brought up by Jdorney. Some of your responses are so short it's hard to divine exactly what your objection is. ] (]) 21:02, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

	You are right that the articles seem to be very contentious, but that is no reason for incivility. "Frustrations" as an excuse have already been offered to condone some of the personal attacks I've had to put up with and yet I have remained civil. I have not allowed "Frustrations" to get the better of me, because I don't allow myself to get frustrated. Lets be honest, when you get the amount of personal abuse I get, breif is best when it comes to comments. Review some of my recent talk page discussions, thats the great thing about page histories. It's the editors that make the articles contentious, not the other way round. If you just happen to notice any accusations being leveled at me, it would be nice if you could ask for a diff to support it? Here is a i decided not to get involved in, because comments are a real put off for me.LOL. Now that I've burned and bended your ear enough, I'll apologise for taking up your time, and will just be on my way. Thanks again for comments again. --<font face="Celtic">]<sub>'']''</sub></font> 22:53, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
	:Malleus certainly has a way with words. :) I hope your editing experience improves. Getting attacked all the time is no fun. Been there done that. If you have article editing interests that are free from politics that helps. Although I've seen some ]s at culinary articles that have been pretty wild... :) ] (]) 23:11, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

	I have no real problems editing, and the personal abuse I get is to my mind based on an inability or as an alternative to presenting logical arguments. Can’t find a source or reference to support your views, start an argument. Throwing out a few accusations usually does the trick to deflect a discussion. All I’d like to see is an editor being challenged to support their claims, and failing to do so, being told to comment on edits and not editors. While you can always try to fight fire with fire, I prefer to use cold water. By not responding to insults, you can remove the fuel they need, but prevention is a much better option. At the end of the day it’s the project that suffers and it just discourages content editors. A well, there is me ear bashing again!!!! --<font face="Celtic">]<sub>'']''</sub></font> 12:03, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

	== Not wanting to fill up the AfD page with side discussions... ==

	I believe we have a different opinion on what constitutes significant coverage. What you put is more of an indication of notability for ], which redirects to ]. --] (]) 22:05, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
	:Indeed he's notable too. But the section I quoted is about Bulshido.net, it's owner, and the role these subjects played in outing Browning. It gives pretty substantial coverage to that. Combined with the other sources I think it's enough. I notice that this topic has been discussed on the net in relation to Misplaced Pages and Ashida Kim, which was AfDed numerous times. I'm not up on what all the hubbub is about. I've also indicated that a merge would be okay since there is an appropriate target. But deleting well sourced content about the organizations and its notable accomplishments doesn't seem helpful to me in building an encyclopedia representing the sum of human knowledge. Don't make us ignorant of these subjects K! We want to know stuff!!! ] (]) 22:17, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
	::I didn't see any more mention of the site than a sentence (if there is more behind that paywall, than all the better). If there is more, than it should have been provided and worked into the article (sometimes offline sources are difficult to work with). I would likely support a merge, but as it sits now the only thing that I can gather from the sources provided is that bullshido.net is a website, and is used for outing fraudulent martial artists.--] (]) 22:29, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
	:::And who the owner is and where he's from. And that it's played substantial role in outing a notable figure. And whatever other content is in the various sources, for example how popular it is, when it was established, etc. etc. :) What's on tap for the weekend? ] (]) 22:41, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
	::::If all he/website did was out a notable figure, than he isn't notable by ]. I would support an article about Browning before the site, probably would anyway as I think he has the coverage. You know, I was once in the ] for participating in ], they even put in a picture. Does that mean that I pass the GNG? Working Sunday, not sure what I am doing tomorrow...we shall see.--] (]) 22:49, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
	:::::So you worked for an ]? How interesting. But no, you're still not notable. And remember, it takes more than one event! It's best if you are cited in numerous sources over several years the way Bullshido.net has been. And even then we may merge you if you aren't independently notable enough for more than a mention in the ] article. ] (]) 22:59, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
	::::::Bullshido.net has been mentioned. Not given in depth coverage, or do you mean that they were the source of information for the newspaper, in which case is bullshido.net a reliable source? Maybe I should be getting my sources from them as they are ''completely qualified'' to provide reliable information to a reliable source, maybe we should use the bullshido.net website to establish notability, despite it's not being independent. My head is starting to hurt. If I wanted to I could get mentioned in the local paper here, I had the offer to be a judge at the rodeo parade, I would have for sure made the Mason Valley News, that would be multiple international sources for multiple events. Then I would pass the GNG, there could be no dispute, why didn't I take that offer, I went to Vegas instead.--] (]) 23:13, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

	== ] and ] ==

	]
	Since you are interested about the connection between ] and ], I have outlined why there were multiple AfDs about this article. This defaming BLP was kept after multiple AfD debates because a group of editors believed that he was notable, even though there lacked significant coverage in multiple reliable sources (For most context, see {{user\|Uncle G}}'s comment at ). In the ] of this article, Ashida Kim himself nominated his own article for deletion. Reading his nomination will reveal the connection between him and Bullshido.net and how the Misplaced Pages article about him was a blatant defamation. See in 2005, which is a major BLP violation.<p>{{user\|DGG}}'s at the final AfD, which resulted in a delete, is an objective summary of why Ashida Kim was ultimately deleted. DGG wrote, ''Looking at current and previous versions of the article, and at the sources, and the discussions, this is clearly a negative BLP with inadequate sourcing. I cannot imagine that if it had come to us fresh in this state now for the first time, that it would not be quickly deleted without much argument. I am generally very reluctant to give much weight to the subject's views with respect to notability, but in this case he is complaining not just of notability but fairness, and he seems to be correct. I am , frankly, amazed at what was said during some of the earllier afds, particularly the 1st one in 2005. Delete, and courtesy blank this and all previous AfD discussions.''<p>I oppose a merge to Bullshido because both ] and ] lack significant coverage in reliable sources. Both are composed of original research, and both do not belong here. I plan to AfD Bullshido at the end of ].<p>This article also cannot be merged to ], since Browning does not have enough coverage to pass ]. The only sources about him are the sources that are about how he exposed ]; not sufficient to establish notability per ]. Furthermore, according to {{user\|Slideyfoot}}, Samuel Browning is not the owner of Bullshido.net: "</nowiki>he site is actually run by Neal Fletcher, not Browning"]. Therefore, even if Samuel Browning were notable, this website cannot be merged since it is only tangentially related to Browning. ] (]) 23:25, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
	:I appreciate the explanation. I'm still not clear on why there is such a strong push to delete the article on the website. There isn't an enormous amount of coverage, but there is some substantial coverage in reliable independent sources (and I don't think it's fair to describe it as "mentions"), and the site and its owner were involved in a notable outing. It's also been cited in other sources apart from that incident. So I'm just not getting why it's important to delete this article on this website that has received some coverage? I recognize that it is in a gray area, all joking aside, as far as whether it meets guidelines or not, but my preference is to lean toward preservation unless there is some compelling interest (advertising, difficult to maintain, BLP issues) to delete something. I also like to crush Drmies and Kelapstick by winning disputes with them when our views differ. :) ] (]) 23:42, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
	::As I said above, the owner is not Browning, the person who exposed ] and is the person covered in the sources that you are referring to. Browning is only a member, while Neal Fletcher is the owner.<p>Why should this article get deleted? It lacks significant coverage in multiple reliable sources. The article is filled with original research and fails Misplaced Pages's core policy of verifiability. There are no merge targets because a) ] is a non-notable topic that has the same OR problems as this one. b) ] fails ] and meets ]. c) ] – The article about Banning should be about himself; it should not discuss a website that is only tangential to his life.<p>I strongly disagree that the sources provide "substantial coverage". Substantial coverage means that the topic is discussed throughout an entire source or at least a substantial portion of the source. does not constitute significant coverage.<p>Crushing Drmies and Kelapstick? No, I think their superior arguments are ] yours to shreds. ;) But of course I'm not an unbiased judge of all this. ] (]) 06:54, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
	:::CoM, I hate to disagree with you on your own talkpage, so let us pretend that I ''don't'' agree with Cunard. Anyway, since I am currently overlooking the Gulf of Mexico, where the water is clear and blue, the beer is cold, and Bama is beating Arkansas, I feel extraordinarily generous towards you and others who wish to crush me. After all your weak arguments are blown away like so much sand in the wind, after what you think of as strong argumentative foundations are revealed to be nothing more than whirling eddies in a strong current, I will not gloat and I will not laugh, but, in the spirit of friendship, I will offer you a spot in the hot tub, and share a beer with you and some blackened fish. My regards from the coast, ] (]) 21:17, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

	== Some issues ==

	Remain on the ] discussion page and article. Your discussion voice is requested. ] (]) 03:43, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
	:There are too many other article to work on than to bother with the incivility and nastiness on that one. Sorry. The article certainly needs lots of work. But if several editors like it the way it is, then so be it. ] (]) 16:07, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

	::I suppose most special interest groups like it when people say that. ] (]) 17:25, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

	== ] ==

			== Stuff ==
	A fantastic user who has left Misplaced Pages...--<b><font face="Rockwell" color="gray">]</font></b> <small><font face="Rockwell" color="red">]</font></small> 05:50, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
	:No note on why he or she left I noticed. Easy come easy go? ] (]) 16:00, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
	::See . <sup><small><font color="green">]</font></small></sup><sub style="margin-left:-4.2ex;"><small><font color="blue">]</font></small></sub> 16:49, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
	:::Thanks for the link Bongo. I've thought about clearing my watchlist for that sort of reason. Time to move on to new territory? ] (]) 16:53, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
	::::You're a ''sui generis'' content creator and windmill-tilter. I'm a creature of habit. When I want less, I just spend less time doing the same old thing. <sup><small><font color="green">]</font></small></sup><sub style="margin-left:-4.2ex;"><small><font color="blue">]</font></small></sub> 17:06, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

			*Windsor school history (google book source) Recommneds closing winsor
	== a dress ==
			*plans for a school
			*Page 3888 Otis Elevator add for Woolworth building work
			* page 90 notes source with pics
			*Frederick Douglass school history
			*Pendretti family

			== For later ==
	I saw and thought you might be interested --] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 10:26, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
	:Interesting. I prefer the bacon bra. But I still think it goes best with eggs or on a sandwich with avocado. :) ] (]) 15:58, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

			], Cincinnati
	== Law fought the . . . ==
			. , ,
			]
			<br>
			] Lima, Ohio
			McLaughlin
			*Coburn

			== Working on ==
	. <sup><small><font color="green">]</font></small></sup><sub style="margin-left:-4.2ex;"><small><font color="blue">]</font></small></sub> 05:56, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
	:<blink> I suppose ''the law'' (as opposed to just Law), won....--] (]) 15:29, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
	::Reading between the lines it looks like Law disclosed who we was to people more or less knowing it would come out. I'm not sure why. I think pushing people to the shadows and then acting shocked when it comes out that they have a history is a bit of a joke. Participating in RfAs I would say most or at least many of them have undisclosed histories.

			* ]
	::When a frequent editor disappears, do we assume they've left for good or that they are editing under a new account? In recent discussions very experienced and powerful editors have suggested that reemerging under a new identity is basically assumed and accepted. I've long suggested that encouraging transparency and accountability would be better, but that's not the way people want to set things up. Oh well. Interesting.
			* ]?
			* ]?
			* ] Very notable ] smoked meat producer dating to the 1920s ,
			*] Very notable and renowned bacon supplier in Wisconsin. "HOG HEAVEN BACON LOVERS AGREE: NUESKE'S FROM WISCONSIN IS THE BEST" and
			* Architects

			== National Pig Day gallery ==
	::I like Law. I like Pastor Theo/ Ecoleetage too. I don't agree with all of their actions any more than I agree with anyone else all the time. But they certainly did good work to benefit Misplaced Pages. Shouldn't that be the standard by which editors are judged? They did a much better job then many other admins and editors playing politics and pushing POVs. Anyway, the politics and game playing here is ridiculous. I can't believe how hard it is to just edit articles and contribute content without getting caught up in the POV pushing and MMPORG circus. Frustrating. Oh well. What are you hiding Bongo? :) ] (]) 17:46, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
	:::Agree with your sentiments for the most part. And I "like" lots of editors who I don't ''like'' at all—by which I mean I hope they stick around and continue doing what they're doing on the content side even if they annoy the cr@p out of me in other ways. What am I hiding? Nothing on WP, that's for sure. I ran across (who ought to have a WP page about him) who argues that even small amounts of anonymous data with sufficient tagging to correlate it makes us all totally traceable. So probably, nothing anywhere. What about ''you''? <sup><small><font color="green">]</font></small></sup><sub style="margin-left:-4.2ex;"><small><font color="blue">]</font></small></sub> 17:58, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
	::::I try to be pretty straightforward, but with all the game playing and wacky rules it's sometimes tricky. I feel fortunate to have a sense of humor about it all, because this place is nuts and it takes all I've got just to maintain some sanity. :) ] (]) 18:19, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

			These photos were uploaded as part of the ]
	== Mmmmmmmm ==
			<center>
			<gallery>
			Image:Pig_candy.jpg\|"Pig candy"
			Image:Chicken_Burger_and_Bacon_in_Edinburgh.jpg\|Chicken burger and bacon in Edinburgh
			Image:Bacon_sushi.jpg \|Bacon sushi
			Image:Gourmet hamburger with bacon.jpg \|"The Leaning Tower of Bacon"
			Image:Bacon_peanut_brittle.jpg \| Bacon peanut brittle
			Image:Luther Burger Google.jpg \| Bacon Krispy Kreme burger
			Image:Bacon_nigirizushi.jpg \| Bacon nigirizushi
			Image:Bacon_wrapped_turkey.jpg \| Bacon wrapped turkey
			Image:Bacon-themed_dinner.jpg \| Bacon-themed dinner
			Image:Bacon-wrapped_banana.jpg \| Bacon-wrapped banana
			Image:Vegan_Bacon_maple_french_toast_cupcakes.jpg \| Vegan_Bacon maple french toast cupcakes
			Image:Bacon_materializer.jpg \| Bacon materializer
			Image:Peanut_butter_and_bacon_sandwich.jpg\| Peanut butter and bacon sandwich
			Image:Bacon,_leek,_tomato_and_garlic_casserole.jpg \| Bacon, leek, tomato and garlic casserole
			Image:Bacon_cornbread.jpg \| Bacon cornbread
			Image:Bacon_lollipops.jpg \| Bacon lollipops
			Image:Bacon_and_ricotta_pizza.jpg \| Bacon and ricotta pizza
			Image:Freeze-dried_bacon_bars.jpg \| Freeze-dried bacon bars
			Image:International_Bacon_Day_symbol.jpg \| International Bacon Day symbol
			Image:Bacon_wrapped_scallops.jpg \| Bacon wrapped scallops
			Image:Veggie_%22bacon%22_breakfast.jpg \| Veggie bacon breakfast
			Image:Bacon_apple_pie.jpg \| Bacon apple pie
			Image:Egg_and_bacon_pie_with_chips.jpg \| Egg and bacon pie with chips
			Image:Bacon_pie_shell.jpg \| Bacon pie shell
			Image:Bacon-wrapped_scallop.jpg \| Bacon-wrapped scallop
			Image:RawBacon.JPG \| Raw bacon
			Image:Stuffed burger - jucy lucy variation.jpg \| "Stuffed burger"
			Image:ScotlandBreakfastWithBacon.JPG \| Breakfast with bacon in Scotland
			Image:Danish bacon cooking.jpg \| Danish bacon cooking
			Image:Pig fat to biodiesel.jpg \| Pig fat and biodiesel
			Image:Bio-blend tanker.gif \| Bio-blend tanker
			Image:Sleeping Guinea Hog 2.jpg \| Sleeping Guinea hog
			Image:British Saddleback sow.jpg \| British Saddleback sow
			Image:British Saddleback boar.jpg \| British Saddleback boar
			Image:Bacon_pancakes.jpg \| Bacon pancakes
			Image:Bacon_and_cheese_okonomiyaki.jpg \| Bacon and cheese okonomiyaki
			Image:Baguette_french_toast_with_bacon,_caramelised_apples_and_apple_syrup.jpg \| Baguette french toast with bacon, caramelised apples and apple syrup
			Image:Spaghetti_omelet_with_bacon.jpg \| Spaghetti omelet with bacon
			Image:Bacon_and_cabbage.jpg \| Bacon and cabbage
			Image:Stir_Fried_Cabbage_and_Bacon_培根高丽菜_.jpg \| Stir fried cabbage and bacon
			Image:Chocolate covered bacon 2.JPG \| Chocolate covered bacon prepared by one of Misplaced Pages's own (who's now taken to studying Mongolian BBQ)
			Image:Bacon_sandwich.jpg \| Bacon sandwich
			Image:Chocolate_bacon_cupcake.jpg \| Chocolate bacon cupcake
			Image:Pineapple_bacon_cheeseburger.jpg \| Pineapple bacon cheeseburger
			Image:Jeju Black Pig.jpg \| Jeju Black Pig
			Image:Butterball Turkey Bacon Package.jpg \| Butterball Turkey Bacon Package
			Image:Packaged Smoked Bacon.jpg \| Packaged Smoked Bacon
			Image:Three strips of cooked turkey bacon.jpg \| Three strips of cooked turkey bacon
			Image:Package of Oscar Mayer Turkey Bacon.jpg \| Package of Oscar Mayer Turkey Bacon
			Image:Turkey bacon cooking in skillet.jpg \| Turkey bacon cooking in skillet
			</gallery>
			</center>

			== Fat-boy and friend ==
	. <sup><small><font color="green">]</font></small></sup><sub style="margin-left:-4.2ex;"><small><font color="blue">]</font></small></sub> 08:12, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
	:Interesting article. I like regional foods like that. Fun. Thanks for the link. ] (]) 15:58, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

			]
	== Relisting ==
			]
			{{-}}

	This is notice of relisting at AfD of an article you commented on one year ago, ] ] (]) 00:57, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
	*Speaking of AfDs, I think you should weigh in on this one: ]. ] (]) 05:24, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

	== Tit for tat ==

			]
	Hi, CoM. Just ignore the frivolous provocation. --] 01:33, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 18:20, 5 December 2024

Child, take a look what has happened to the No Gun Ri (Massacre) page. Then look at edits. Feb and March "CJHanley" is the same Hanley mentioned in the article itself. Excised all materials about himself, etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.188.140.194 (talk) 12:11, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

The Bacon Challenge 2010 was a massive success with four Good Articles (GAs) produced, lots of photographs and an illustrious porkasmorg of DYKs for National Pig Day on March 1... and in dribs and drabs after as even more DYKs keep coming, so keep your eyes peeled for more bacon. The final scoring for the (first ever) Bacon WikiCup 2010 are still being tabulated. And the Bacon Challenge 2011 has officially kicked off for sign-ups and new bacon article idea submissions!!!

The prophetic view of a heavenly-anointed master of rhetorical interaction and richochetotry (aka Proofreader77)

Rhetorical verse in Shakespearean sonnet form — noting that when someone knows enough about rhetoric to know where the knobs are, he or she can attempt to turn it down, but not before. {serious smile}

Midnight Comes

{CoM.001.01} ____ WHEN GANGS OF BULLIES gather, Midnight comes
{CoM.001.02} ____ destabilizing bullshit with her own.
{CoM.001.03} ____ The truth is wasted on the nasty bums
{CoM.001.04} ____ who fill up "ad hoc firing squads" well known ...

{CoM.001.05} ____ ... at ANI — which gives the vile a role
{CoM.001.06} ____ with T-shirts marked "community" to wear.
{CoM.001.07} ____ Decision on the facts is not the goal.
{CoM.001.08} ____ Humiliation is. No, not "what's fair."

{CoM.001.09} ____ Some vague aspersion cast is made to stick
{CoM.001.10} ____ by snowball bullshit that's then packed on top.
{CoM.001.11} ____ Antagonizing target till they're sick
{CoM.001.12} ____ with social blows which no one will make stop.

{CoM.001.13} ____ THEN ChildofMidnight comes and says: FUCK THAT!
{CoM.001.14} ____ (No matter if you're Wales or Bureaucrat.)

I have had tears of joy come to my eyes frying an egg remembering ChildofMidnight in action — defending someone while they slept, leaving them safe from harm until they arrived, and found nothing they needed to do. The horror had past. And by the way, God Herself sent me here to say this, ladies and gentlemen. Have a care with ChildofMidnight — Judgment Day comes ... sooner than you think. {Serious smile}
-- Proofreader77 10:15, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Users who endorse this summary:

God
Archangel Gabriel
Guardian angel, Oh Mi (on loan from Proofreader77 who has 11 more)
<Additional signatories removed to protect the innocent and not so innocent>

		The Barnstar of Integrity
		For balancing the scales amidst the flames. Proofreader77 (talk) 21:38, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

In Other News

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU to everyone who participated in Doughnut Drive 2009!!!! There are still a lot of holes in our coverage, but a lot of progress was made in ringing up some great content fillings!!! Is there anything they can't do?

Sign in drive 2009: Please leave your mark on the signature page

Archives

Archive 1	Archive 2	Archive 3
Archive 4	Archive 5	Archive 6
Archive 7	Archive 8	Archive 9
Archive 10	Archive 11	Archive 12
Archive 13	Archive 14	Archive 15
Archive 16	Archive 17	Archive 18

This page has archives. Sections older than 8 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III.

Stuff

Windsor school history (google book source) Recommneds closing winsor
plans for a school
Page 3888 Otis Elevator add for Woolworth building work
page 90 notes source with pics
Frederick Douglass school history
Pendretti family

For later

James W. McLaughlin, Cincinnati . , , Wayne County Courthouse
Thomas D. McLaughlin Lima, Ohio McLaughlin

Coburn

Working on

Cudahy Packing Company
Greater Omaha Packing Company?
Mallika Badrinath?
Burgers’ Smokehouse Very notable California, Missouri smoked meat producer dating to the 1920s ,
Nueske’s Applewood Smoked Meats Very notable and renowned bacon supplier in Wisconsin. "HOG HEAVEN BACON LOVERS AGREE: NUESKE'S FROM WISCONSIN IS THE BEST" and
Architects

National Pig Day gallery

These photos were uploaded as part of the Bacon Challenge 2010

"Pig candy"
Chicken burger and bacon in Edinburgh
Bacon sushi
"The Leaning Tower of Bacon"
Bacon peanut brittle
Bacon Krispy Kreme burger
Bacon nigirizushi
Bacon wrapped turkey
Bacon-themed dinner
Bacon-wrapped banana
Vegan_Bacon maple french toast cupcakes
Bacon materializer
Peanut butter and bacon sandwich
Bacon, leek, tomato and garlic casserole
Bacon cornbread
Bacon lollipops
Bacon and ricotta pizza
Freeze-dried bacon bars
International Bacon Day symbol
Bacon wrapped scallops
Veggie bacon breakfast
Bacon apple pie
Egg and bacon pie with chips
Bacon pie shell
Bacon-wrapped scallop
Raw bacon
"Stuffed burger"
Breakfast with bacon in Scotland
Danish bacon cooking
Pig fat and biodiesel
Bio-blend tanker
Sleeping Guinea hog
British Saddleback sow
British Saddleback boar
Bacon pancakes
Bacon and cheese okonomiyaki
Baguette french toast with bacon, caramelised apples and apple syrup
Spaghetti omelet with bacon
Bacon and cabbage
Stir fried cabbage and bacon
Chocolate covered bacon prepared by one of Misplaced Pages's own (who's now taken to studying Mongolian BBQ)
Bacon sandwich
Chocolate bacon cupcake
Pineapple bacon cheeseburger
Jeju Black Pig
Butterball Turkey Bacon Package Butterball Turkey Bacon Package
Packaged Smoked Bacon
Three strips of cooked turkey bacon
Package of Oscar Mayer Turkey Bacon Package of Oscar Mayer Turkey Bacon
Turkey bacon cooking in skillet

Fat-boy and friend

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