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Revision as of 23:39, 5 November 2009 editBearian (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, New page reviewers, Rollbackers84,449 edits →Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Alternative HIV viewpoints: new section← Previous edit Latest revision as of 02:24, 29 May 2021 edit undoLowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs)Bots, Template editors2,298,161 editsm Archiving 3 discussion(s) to User talk:Neuromancer~enwiki/Archive) (bot 
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{{talk header}} {{talk header}}
{{User WikiProject Alternative Views}} {{User WikiProject Alternative Views}}
{{User Article Rescue Squadron}} {{User Article Rescue Squadron}}
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You were listed on the ] page as living in or being associated with Shanghai. As part of the ] project, these lists are being replaced with user categories. If you would like to add yourself to the category that is replacing the page, please visit ] for instructions. ] 16:42, 18 September 2005 (UTC) You were listed on the ] page as living in or being associated with Shanghai. As part of the ] project, these lists are being replaced with user categories. If you would like to add yourself to the category that is replacing the page, please visit ] for instructions. ] 16:42, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

== Recent changes to lead of HIV article ==
Hi there. I've begun a new section at ] discussing my rationale for reverting your recent edits for a second time. Before reinstating your edits, please be sure that the new material you're proposing is supported by editorial ]. Thanks, ] (]) 09:26, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

== Please see talk page guideline ==
Neuromancer, regarding your edits and talk page comments at ], I would encourage you to please see ]. The talk page is not a forum for discussion of AIDS denialism or even the science of HIV/AIDS. Please know that I will remove any further abuses of the talk page. ] (]) 14:28, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

== BLP violation warning ==
] Please do not add unreferenced or ] information, especially if controversial, to articles or any other page on Misplaced Pages about ]{{#if:Talk:HIV|, as you did to ]}}. {{#if:|{{{2}}}|Thank you.}}<!-- Template:uw-biog2 --> ] (]) 20:20, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

== Chat warning ==
] Please stop. If you continue to use talk pages {{#if:Talk:HIV|such as ]}} for ], you may be '''blocked'''. {{#if:|{{{2}}}|}}<!-- Template:uw-chat3 --> ] (]) 20:21, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

== ] Nomination: ] ==

<div class="floatleft" style="margin-bottom:0">]</div>Hello, and ]! We welcome and appreciate your contributions, but all Misplaced Pages articles must meet our criteria for inclusion (see ] and ]). Since it does not seem that ] meets these criteria, an editor has started a discussion about whether this article should be kept or deleted.

Your opinion on whether this article meets the inclusion criteria is welcome. Please contribute to the discussion by adding your comments at ]. Don't forget to add four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) at the end of each of your comments to sign them.

Discussions such as these usually last seven days. In the meantime, you are free to edit the content of the article. Please do not remove the "articles for deletion" template (the box at the top). When the discussion has concluded, a neutral third party will consider all comments and decide whether or not to delete the article. <!-- Template:AFDWarningNew --> ] (]) 20:36, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

== Re ==
Neuromancer, in response to your question on my talk page, no, there is nothing personal to my criticism of your behaviour on Misplaced Pages. You are, in my opinion, advancing a fringe point of view beyond due weight, and you are soapboxing on the ] talk page. You have plagiarised from several sources, without giving citations at all, and have refused to admit this. You have created an article with substantial amounts of trivia (lists of contest winners) about what I consider to be a non-notable company, leading me to question what your connection with this company might be (please see ]). I don't know you, so there's nothing personal, but I would much prefer that you stop using Misplaced Pages for promotional reasons or as a forum for your beliefs.

In future, if you have questions about virology and immunology methods, please direct them to the ]. Demands for a single citation to establish that HIV exists in Africa or is in fact a virus or has been isolated, etc., should be directed to more appropriate sites on the internet, of which, as I am sure you know, there are many. Misplaced Pages is an encyclopaedia and not a forum for AIDS denialism. Thank you. ] (]) 15:34, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

:I have made some improvements to the Fatcat article and noticed that much of the information contained in it indicates an apparently intimate personal knowledge of the motivations and histories of the individuals involved. A large part of this has been removed as potential ] violation. Please take care in future to add information to Misplaced Pages only when it is available in reliable sources. ] (]) 16:05, 1 November 2009 (UTC)


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== ] == == ] ==


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The talkpage ] has several times discussed the scope of the article, leading to consensus that denial of the connection between HIV and AIDS is properly included at that article. Please discuss there if you think a ] article is warranted. - ] <small>(])</small> 02:32, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
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<span style="color:#333333; font-variant: small-caps;">] ] | ] ]</span>
Thanks for the note. Unfortunately, someone changed your new page to a REDIRECT to the old AIDS Denialism page within hours. Let me know when the new page stabilizes and I will participate.

It sounds to me like some people have seriously adamant positions, which I'm guessing comes from having lost a loved one. Hard to believe that scientists would insist so much on THE answer. ] (]) 06:06, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Your arguments could be clearer, at least in the Talk pages (which is all I can see). You challenge testing processes, but I don't see mention of the variety of alternative views. In particular, you omit the distinction between denying the role of HIV and accepting HIV as one of several causes (cofactor hypothesis).

Sorry but this process is too fast and too obdurate on all sides to appeal to me as a participant. I find it a little scary to see an edit war that time stamps suggest can be measured in minutes. What exactly is so threatening about having alternative ideas online for a few days, so that more than a handful of people can judge POV fork and other allegations of WP policy breach? ] (]) 22:46, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

== Edit-warring and 3-revert rule ==

] You currently appear to be engaged in an ''']'''{{#if:HIV dissent|&#32; according to the reverts you have made on ]}}. Note that the ] prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24-hour period. Additionally, users who perform several reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring even if they do not technically violate the ]. When in dispute with another editor you should first try to ] to work towards wording and content that gains a ] among editors. Should that prove unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek ], and in some cases it may be appropriate to request ]. Please stop the disruption, otherwise '''you may be ] from editing'''. {{#if:|{{{2}}}|}}<!-- Template:uw-3rr --> ''']'''&nbsp;<sup>]</sup> 05:26, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
:And please take a look at our policy on ] while you're at it (). ''']'''&nbsp;<sup>]</sup> 05:35, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
:: To answer your implied question at ], the relevant sections are ] and ]. - ] <small>(])</small> 07:19, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

::: To reiterate my edit summary , please be aware that you have made more than three reverts to ] in under 24 hours. This is in violation of the ] sufficient but not necessary bright line definition of ]. Please desist before you are ]. - ] <small>(])</small> 13:20, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

I get off reverting to the redirect because it's the only policy compling option. ] (]) 13:21, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Hi Neuromancer,

You will never get anywhere with the likes of Keepcalmandcarryon, Mastcell, Nunh-huh, etc. Going into the archives of some of the articles here on AIDS and HIV, I found that some of these people have been working, full-time it seems, on keeping these pages biased for years, and that they don't allow any edits which provide alternative information to the orthodox theory that HIV=AIDS, or anyone attached to these theories. They can be illogical, bullying, they will name-call, they will call any persons with honest questions denialists, and they will use any and every strategy no matter how ugly to keep these pages the way they want them to read. They don't allow edits they don't like to stay up for more than 30 minutes, and their tactic is to bully and threaten people until they give up. Of course people do give up, because they become exhausted and worn down as nothing they try to correct will stay up. Interestingly enough, some of these people also police pages on subjects such as Aspartame and alternative medicine. It's frightening how the AIDS orthodoxy doesn't want the public to know the facts. Most horrifying is the effect on AIDS patients themselves, who have the right to know everything there is to know and to make their own choices. I'd be interested to know your uncle's history, whether he was taking AIDS medications, what AIDS-related disease he actually died from, etc. AIDS has turned into a fear campaign - they give you a death sentence, and tell patients that if they stop the drugs that they will die. I wonder if these mercenary editors here have any idea that their policing of these pages could be leading to actual deaths in the world, as thousands of people take poison in a desperate attempt to save their lives, when they are not even sick. ] (]) 18:43, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Hi Neuromancer,
I've already spent many hours of my life trying to get in even small tiny points corrected, and they don't let ANYTHING stand. I would be happy to help you here if you do manage to create a page that stays up, but if we could get a few more people on board that would help tremendously. I've noticed that they take something down saying it was because of a "consensus" when there has been no such thing, and then they get an administrator that they know to get on their side. It's like a mad tea party, and there is no logic, no science, no fairness involve. It's the Wild West! I'm going to be very bust in the next few weeks unfortunately, but I will step in where I can. ] (]) 19:23, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

== Vandalism vs. Content Dispute ==
Vandalism requires a desire to damage the encyclopedia. Although you are damaging the encyclopedia by placing content that is factually false and pushes a (harmful) tiny-minority PoV, I do not accuse you of vandalism, because you believe the enyclopedia will be better if it says what you believe. You should grant me the same courtesy. Thanks. ] (]) 18:56, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

==Blocked==
:Neuro, you've made it very clear at this point that you are not looking to discuss anything. You are looking for people to agree with you. Anyone who doesn't is promptly told that they are wrong, you are right. You've also made it clear that because of this, no one will be able to convince you that you're wrong. Now, maybe you're not wrong. Maybe you're completely right. But at some point, you have to realize that you're arguing with the community that developed the ] and the ]. You are seeking redress from administrators who are philosophically incapable of agreeing with your edits or your behavior. So you have a choice. You can continue to ] until you're banned from Misplaced Pages, or your can learn to ], ], and drop the assumption that you know more about Misplaced Pages policies than those who have been here for years. ] (]) 19:36, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

::Here's my issue. I attempt to contribute to the Wiki. Before my work is up for two hours, it has been unilaterally wiped down to a redirect. No discussion, no time period, no anything. Just gone. Who am I supposed to resolve a dispute with if they don't even notify me they have a dispute. How can a dispute be resolved unilaterally by one editor in a matter of an hour or less? Can you understand my frustration? I am trying to contribute what I, and others, feel is notable information. I have spent hours researching, referencing, and editing prior to posting anything. Then it gets wiped without an articulated reason minutes or hours later. ] (]) 21:21, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

I would ask that you extend to me the same level of respect. Please review ] before trying to wholesale delete information because you do not share the same viewpoint. The purpose of ] is to present a notable viewpoint which lacks widespread acceptance. There is no reason to delete it.
*]: This project aims to improve Misplaced Pages's coverage of significant "alternative views"—those theories, hypotheses, conjectures, and speculations which, though notable, lack widespread acceptance, and which may challenge a "dominant view" which does have such acceptance. The project encompasses alternative views in every field, from the sciences to the humanities.
*"A content fork is usually an unintentional creation of several separate articles all treating the same subject. A point of view (POV) fork is a content fork deliberately created to avoid neutral point of view guidelines, often to avoid or highlight negative or positive viewpoints or facts. Both content forks and POV forks are undesirable on Misplaced Pages, as they avoid consensus building and therefore violate one of our most important policies."

Neuromancer, Someguy is an old AIDS orthodoxy guy, you will not get justice from him. I recognize his username from old discussions. They block anyone that tried to change anything on the AIDS-HIV pages, they are thrilled with reverting everything you do so that you are blocked, but they don't get blocked because they trade off amongst themselves. It's bullying in numbers. A reasonable, good-faith editor can go nuts here. When you are allowed to edit again, maybe you can help with the House of Numbers page, in which they will not allow even a normal synopsis (see my attempted, perfectly neutral edits). Thanks. ] (]) 19:57, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

:]. ] <sup>]</sup> 20:57, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

::The above comment is a clear violation of good faith. That is just harassment, and gloating. ] (]) 21:22, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

:::It wasn't meant to be a violation of ], harassment or gloating::. ] <sup>]</sup> 22:08, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

::::Well, it certainly came off that way. Perhaps thinking prior to making an edit would be advisable in the future. I am not trying to make enemies. I am just trying to make the Wiki a better place. I am following the rules, and every rule I comply with, someone else violates and then cites ] like it's a game or something. It is frustrating, but I won't give up... You are all stuck with me. ] (]) 22:17, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

:::::Well regardless of your perceptions, following them with snarky comments won't help your case. Removing deletion tags is definitely not alright - if the deletion is unwarranted then it would reflect in the comment section for it. I don't see a lot of people using ], it is mostly ] + ]. ] <sup>]</sup> 22:25, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

::::::The initial delete tag was malformed. Look at the history. That is what I removed. As far as my "Snarky" comments, I am not treating anyone here differently than I am being treated. I get a "Snarky" comment every hour like clockwork. I never get any actual answers. I just references to policy pages that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. As far the article goes, it falls under ]. It doesn't have to conform to ] or ] guidelines. Incidentally, read ] and then read ]. The whole idea is that they are not widely accepted viewpoints. That's why the project is there. ] (]) 22:31, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

:::::::You are getting answers. It's just that you don't ''like'' those answers, so you're alternately ignoring them and ]. That tends to annoy people. If you are honestly open to understanding how Misplaced Pages works, then consider the following. ] is a voluntary association of editors with similar interests. It has no "authority" ''per se'', and it most definitely ''does not'' supersede core Misplaced Pages policies like ], ], and ]. A lot of your posts come across as frantically throwing around links and acronyms without bothering to try to understand the way Misplaced Pages is actually meant to work. This is intended to be a serious, respectable reference work. How many serious, respectable reference works or encyclopedias are you aware of that even acknowledge the ''existence'' of a group as tiny-fringe as AIDS denialists, much less give them their own article? The topic is already given ] here. ''']'''&nbsp;<sup>]</sup> 04:46, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Ah, Neuromancer, I did you here following my . Anyway, I will be around ] when your block expires, so see you there. - ] <small>(])</small> 16:36, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

:I don't get it... Are you just screwing with me? ] (]) 19:11, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

:: Sorry, that was in reply to of 21:21 last night. - ] <small>(])</small> 20:21, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

== Recent Block ==
I understand why you have blocked me, and humbly request that you reconsider the block for the following reasons:

Hipocrit made this initial edit
He decided, without any discussion, to blank the page and forward to another article.
Which I reverted

He then attempted to nominate the page for deletion, but did it improperly.
Which I then removed

He then made the following edits, and in the comments attacked personally calling me a conspiracy theorist. These edits were wholesale deletes of information.
Which I reverted

He then added the following:
Which I removed.
Which he then reverted.
Which I then reverted.

This is all prior to Hipocrit making a single entry on the talk page.

Then he reported to you for a block.
The article in question falls under the ] guidelines. There will be information that is not mainstream or widely accepted. That is the purpose of the article. Deleting the information contained in it is not beneficial to the Wiki, in fact it is detrimental, and form of censorship.

For the reasoning above, I request that you unblock me, and at the very least, issue a warning to Hipocrit.

Thank you in advance for your time and understanding.
] (]) 22:14, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

: My AFD tag was not malformed. My final edit, which you reverted, said "see talk," because I was posting to talk. You didn't check talk - you just reverted. ] (]) 09:38, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

There was no flaw with the AFD notice . You should be allowed to edit again soon enough and can discuss it at AFD. -- ] (]) 10:07, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

:At the time I reverted the changes, the user had not nominated the page for deletion. I believe you nominate the page, and then post the notice. When I reviewed AFD, there was no nomination, nor was there a talk entry, which is why I reverted. After he actually nominated the article for deletion, I did not remove the header. ] (]) 05:28, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

::It's actually the other way around. See ]. ] (]) 06:26, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

:::My mistake. ] (]) 06:28, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

== November 2009 ==
] Welcome to Misplaced Pages. Everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia. However, talk pages are meant to be a record of a discussion; deleting or editing legitimate comments, as you did at ], is considered ], even if you meant well. Take a look at the ] to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you.<!-- Template:uw-tpv1 --> ] (]) 06:32, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

] You currently appear to be engaged in an ''']'''&#32; according to the reverts you have made on ]. Note that the ] prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24-hour period. Additionally, users who perform several reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring even if they do not technically violate the ]. When in dispute with another editor you should first try to ] to work towards wording and content that gains a ] among editors. Should that prove unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek ], and in some cases it may be appropriate to request ]. Please stop the disruption, otherwise '''you may be ] from editing'''. <!-- Template:uw-3rr --> <span style="font-family:Papyrus">] <small>]</small></span> 11:46, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
:Edit warring straight off a block is not a great thing to do. I suggest you self revert, to show good faith, and put your arguments to the talk page and the AfD. <span style="font-family:Papyrus">] <small>]</small></span> 11:47, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

== Biographies of living persons warning. ==

] You have made an edit to ] that could be regarded as ]. Please do not restore this material to the article or its talk page. If you do, you may be blocked for disruption. See the ].<!-- Template:Blp1 --> ] (]) 11:50, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

: No, in the article you don't care about that you're reverting to try to annoy me. ] (]) 11:53, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

== re afd on Denialism ==

Hi, Thanks for the support in the discussion. I would like to ask you to refrain from arguing from the position of AIDS Denialism being imprecise etc. I believe that it distracts from the overall discussion from Misplaced Pages policy. In all honesty if anything it will make people !vote keep just to piss you off. The core problem, as I see it, is that the only way to get at a definition of 'denialism' from current sources is to extract and synthesize characteristics attributed to 'AIDS Denialists' and 'Holocaust Denialists' etc. Best, ] (]) 12:49, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

:I entirely agree with you. It does appear that I have made some enemies with regard to the "denialism" editors crowd. I will, as we say in London "Piss off!" and leave the discussion in your hands. ] (]) 12:51, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
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Hello,


The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See ] for more information.
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Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Neuromancer. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Neuromancer~enwiki that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can ]. If you think you might own all of the accounts with this name and this message is in error, please visit ] to check and attach all of your accounts to prevent them from being renamed.
* Our primary work is improving ]. On this template you can see a drop-down list of current articles tagged. You can install it on your own page by putting {{tl|ARS/Tagged}}. A more dynamic list with article links and description is on ]. It is highly recommended you .

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== Renamed ==
] (]) 14:43, 5 November 2009 (UTC)


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== Fixed your talk page archiving ==
A strong argument is not a personal attack. If you wish to stay at WP, you will find, as I have, that sometimes people have strong views, and that is OK. See ]. ] (]) 23:39, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Hi! I took the liberty of fixing the auto-archiving settings at the top of this page. --] (]) 07:37, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 02:24, 29 May 2021

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You were listed on the en:Misplaced Pages:Wikipedians/China page as living in or being associated with Shanghai. As part of the en:Misplaced Pages:User categorisation project, these lists are being replaced with user categories. If you would like to add yourself to the category that is replacing the page, please visit en:Category:Wikipedians in Shanghai for instructions. Rmky87 16:42, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

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Your account will be renamed

Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Neuromancer. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Neuromancer~enwiki that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name. If you think you might own all of the accounts with this name and this message is in error, please visit Special:MergeAccount to check and attach all of your accounts to prevent them from being renamed.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours,
Keegan Peterzell
Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation

01:46, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed

This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: Special:GlobalRenameRequest. -- Keegan (WMF) (talk)

16:53, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Fixed your talk page archiving

Hi! I took the liberty of fixing the auto-archiving settings at the top of this page. --rchard2scout (talk) 07:37, 28 May 2021 (UTC)