Misplaced Pages

Latest revision as of 23:40, 3 January 2025

Archives

2008: Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec 2009: Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec 2010: Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec 2011: Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec 2012: Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec 2013: Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec 2014: Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec 2015: Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec 2016: Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec 2017: Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec 2018: Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec 2019: Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec 2020: Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec 2021: Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec 2022: Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec 2023: Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec 2024: Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec

This page has archives. Sections older than 30 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III.

Antifs

WP:NPOVN? Doug Weller talk 17:39, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Perhaps hold off for a while and see if we make any progess. TFD (talk) 00:13, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

Invitation to participate in a research

Hello,

The Wikimedia Foundation is conducting a survey of Wikipedians to better understand what draws administrators to contribute to Misplaced Pages, and what affects administrator retention. We will use this research to improve experiences for Wikipedians, and address common problems and needs. We have identified you as a good candidate for this research, and would greatly appreciate your participation in this anonymous survey.

You do not have to be an Administrator to participate.

The survey should take around 10-15 minutes to complete. You may read more about the study on its Meta page and view its privacy statement .

Please find our contact on the project Meta page if you have any questions or concerns.

Kind Regards,

WMF Research Team

BGerdemann (WMF) (talk) 19:27, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

ArbCom 2024 Elections voter message

Hello! Voting in the 2024 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 2 December 2024. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Misplaced Pages arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2024 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:15, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Happy Holidays

Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2025!

Hello The Four Deuces, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this seasonal occasion. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2025. Happy editing, Abishe (talk) 23:01, 24 December 2024 (UTC) Spread the love by adding {{subst:Seasonal Greetings}} to other user talk pages.

Abishe (talk) 23:01, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Would you be willing to give a Good Article (GA) review for Solid South?

I've worked really hard on the Solid South article, covering the political history of the Southern United States after Reconstruction to the present. I've been trying to get it to become a Good Article, but nobody has reviewed after my resubmission. (My first attempt was rejected because of insufficient inline citations, which I fixed.) This has been my favorite article to write and update in Misplaced Pages, and I really think it merits being a GA.

I have other interests besides making statistical plots and analyzing data. This is my best article IMO.

I think that the South's realignment from the Democratic Party to the Republican Party was part of the underlying educational realignment in the United States.JohnAdams1800 (talk) 15:26, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

It seems good. It might however be too long. Make sure it is within article length even if that means spinning out sections to separate articles.

Also, it should explain in more detail why the coalition was built.

When you use terms such as white supremacy, you should define them in the article. White supremacy is a term coined in the antebellum south which is almost entirely used in the U.S. TFD (talk) 15:49, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Can you give me more feedback on this? The article is mainly about electoral results and party dominance in the South, not Disfranchisement after the Reconstruction era on how specifically and thoroughly African Americans and poor whites were disenfranchised, which has its own article. It also includes a detailed section about the "Southern Strategy," about how the South went from a Democratic to a Republican stronghold from 1964 to the 2010s.

I'm willing to split the article or spin out other sections, but I feel the article sticks to the main topic about the electoral coalitions in the Southern United States after Reconstruction. The article goes from the disenfranchising period (1870s to 1910s), to the fall of the Jim Crow order (1920s to 1960s), and then the Southern strategy (1970s to 2010s). It's mainly about electoral results and geography. I'm considering adding new content about Republican gains with Hispanics in South Texas and South Florida, but I need more data and elections from the future to see if Trump's gains in majority-Hispanic areas will last among Republicans.

The coalition was built to maintain a Dominant-party system in the 11 former Confederate states and enforce White supremacy, including "separate but equal" Jim Crow laws. I included Benjamin Tillman's white supremacist speech on how he led the 1895 state constitutional convention to disenfranchise African Americans in South Carolina. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 16:24, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

What was the dominant party system supposed to achieve that a two party system could not? And why did they try to exclude blacks from voting?

Also, the origins of primary voting need more attention. I had always thought of it as a progressive era reform, but apparently it was pioneered in the South. TFD (talk) 16:37, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

The Deep South was majority-Black before the Great Migration, and during Reconstruction and even after, African Americans could have joined in a coalition with some Whites to win Republican control of the South. These are two really depressing stories. I could add them to the article, but the article is mainly about party dominance, not the disenfranchisement.

• In fact, this happened in North Carolina, with the 1898 Wilmington massacre and Republican governor Daniel Lindsay Russell was unable to be elected again. It's a really depressing event, and I added a paragraph about it in the article.
• In South Carolina, the 1876 South Carolina gubernatorial election was absolutely chaotic. Daniel Henry Chamberlain narrowly lost re-election, in what may have been fraudulent, amidst the extremely close 1876 presidential election in the state that tipped the electoral college by a single EV.

JohnAdams1800 (talk) 17:08, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

BTW have you tried regression analysis using both income and education as variables? Unless you do that, you can't made any assumptions about how the two relate to voting. TFD (talk) 15:52, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Regarding the South realigning from the Democrats to the Republicans, I haven't run regression analysis and haven't added any content making such claims yet. I probably will in the future, but fundamentally I believe that the educational realignment is best highlighted by the South's realignment.

Specifically, it took both much longer than people realize for the South to realign from the Democrats to the Republicans--1994 for Congress, 21st century for presidential elections, 2010s for state legislatures. After reading Polarized by Degrees, I realized that the process of educational polarization strongly overlaps with the Democratic Party's loss of the South (lowest educational attainment) and gains in the Northeast (highest educational attainment).

The South's realignment highlights how it took much longer than people realize for the Democratic Party to lose what was once its base of the "working class," that is non-college voters. It took decades for educational attainment to increase and non-college voters to vote so heavily Republican like they do in the Trump era.

• Jimmy Carter, who recently died, won all the former Confederate states in 1976 except for Virginia. If you look at the exit polls, Carter won voters without college degrees while losing voters with college degrees. In 2024, Harris only won Virginia, lost voters without college degrees, and won voters with college degrees.

JohnAdams1800 (talk) 16:32, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

The higher one's income, the more likely one is to vote Republican, the lower one's income, the more likely one is to vote Democratic. That's been true since the beginnings of both parties. That's supported in the literature. Instead of repeating your opinion, prove it through linear regression analysis. TFD (talk) 20:29, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

The main purpose of this thread is to improve the Solid South article. My remarks, inspired by the death of Jimmy Carter, were mainly about the two modern parties in the 21st century and educational polarization. The Solid South article is about the Southern United States in particular, not educational polarization.

Do you have any feedback for improving the section about the Southern strategy in the article, that is the section on how the South realigned from the Democrats to the Republicans? I think I covered it all, and I don't think Republicans can gain mathematically any further with White Southerners. (Hispanics in South Texas and South Florida seem to be realigning to support Republicans. I'll need future election data to confirm this.)

• I incorporated your suggestion about how Jim Crow-era Southern Democrats disenfranchised African Americans and poor Whites in order to prevent fusion (cross-racial) majority coalitions, which was briefly achieved in North Carolina.

JohnAdams1800 (talk) 22:51, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

There's a view that the Southern Strategy was a myth. People did not reverse party affiliation, but the demographics changed with more wealth people who were more likely to vote Republican. Democratic politicians were replaced with Republicans who were both less racist and less supportive of social welfare programs. I don't know what support this position has, but the article should explain in the lead how accepted the Southern Strategy theory is. TFD (talk) 23:02, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

I don't think the article lead's third paragraph should be changed. The Southern strategy has its own article, while Solid South is about electoral results/geography and how the realignment took place, not the specific reasons for why. The Southern Strategy was long-term and the only thing that is clear is that the electoral realignment occurred, not the specific reasons why it occurred. I have incorporated content mentioning ideology, ticket-splitting, and officeholders switching parties. In particular, even after the Civil Rights Act, White Southern Democrats were still generally ideologically conservative similar to say Joe Manchin. The section on the Southern strategy has a very detailed introduction explaining the scholarly debate. Are you able to provide a review on the article as a whole, I know WP:VOLUNTEER, sometime soon. I want to be able to get my first Good Article, and potentially make Solid South a featured article.

JohnAdams1800 (talk) 23:18, 3 January 2025 (UTC)