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| = {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification|Requests for clarification|]}} = | |||
| {{Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification/Header}} | |||
| <includeonly>= ] =</includeonly><noinclude>{{If mobile||{{Fake heading|sub=1|Requests for clarification and amendment}}}}</noinclude> | |||
| == Request for clarification: ] == | |||
| {{Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment/Header}} | |||
| '''Initiated by ''' ] (]) '''at''' 20:31, 18 February 2010 (UTC) | |||
| <noinclude>{{-}}</noinclude> | |||
| ] | |||
| ''List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:'' | |||
| ] | |||
| *{{userlinks|Tenmei}} (initiator) | |||
| *{{admin|John Carter}} -- | |||
| *{{userlinks|Jmh649}} -- | |||
| *{{userlinks|Kraftlos}} -- | |||
| *{{userlinks|Leujohn}} -- | |||
| *{{userlinks|McDoobAU93}} -- | |||
| *{{userlinks|Robofish}} -- | |||
| *{{userlinks|Taivo}} -- | |||
| <!-- Substitute "admin" for "userlinks" if a user is an administrator. Anyone else affected must be notified that the request has been filed, | |||
| immediately after it is posted, and confirmation posted here. The line for username2 can be removed if no-one else is affected. --> | |||
| === Statement by Tenmei === | |||
| :ArbCom decisions in December set in motion a slow process which now calls for further ArbCom action. Relevant excerpts from amended remedies include: | |||
| :::1.1) Tenmei is restricted as follows: | |||
| ::::(A) Tenmei is topic-banned from ] for a period of six months, ''to begin <u>when a mentor is located and approved by the Committee</u>. He is permitted to comment on the talkpage, so long as he does so in a civil fashion'' .... (underline emphasis added) | |||
| ::::''Passed 10 to 0, 22:20, 11 June 2009 (UTC), amended as indicated with italics 8 to 0, 02:42, 10 December 2009 (UTC)'' | |||
| :::3.1) ] <s>shall be assigned</s> is required to have one or more volunteer mentors, who will be asked to assist him in understanding and following policy and community practice to a sufficient level that additional sanctions will not be necessary. ''While Tenmei is without a mentor, Tenmei is prohibited from contributing except for the purpose of communicating with potential mentors'' .... | |||
| :::''Passed 10 to 0, 22:20, 11 June 2009 (UTC), amended as indicated with italics 8 to 0, 02:42, 10 December 2009 (UTC)'' | |||
| :::3.2) The mentor must be publicly identified, and willing to make themselves available for other editors to contact them publicly or privately. | |||
| :::''Passed 8 to 0, 02:42, 10 December 2009 (UTC)'' | |||
| :ArbCom remedies required that I locate a mentor or mentors. This is a list of volunteers: | |||
| {{col-begin}} | |||
| {{col-2}} | |||
| :* ] | |||
| :* ] | |||
| :* ] | |||
| :* ] | |||
| {{col-2}} | |||
| * ] | |||
| * ] | |||
| * ] | |||
| {{col-end}} | |||
| :ArbCom "approval" or confirmation is anticipated.<br> | |||
| :<s><font color="darkred"></font></s> | |||
| ::A. No procedure tells me how to elicit ArbCom "approval" or confirmation. If mailing the list to ArbCom members individually and posting the list at ] is sufficient, good. If not, what alternative action is preferred?<br> | |||
| ::<s><font color="darkred"></font></s> | |||
| ::B. No protocols explain how these mentors will know that he/she has been approved or confirmed. If it is sufficient for someone to post "approved" after each name listed at ] or here, good. If not, what alternative action is preferred?<br> | |||
| ::<s><font color="darkred"></font></s> | |||
| ::C. Nothing guides me in knowing when I may re-commence normal editing. If "A" is sufficient or if "B" is required, good. If not, what alternative action is preferred?<br> | |||
| ::<s><font color="darkred"></font></s> | |||
| ::D. If this is not the correct venue to address these matters, what venue is preferred?<br> | |||
| ::<s><font color="darkred"></font></s> | |||
| ====Response to ]==== | |||
| Each name is presented for individual confirmation as an independent mentor. They will function as co-mentors in the flexible manner which appears to be playing out amongst those who are working with ]. Some have agreed to participate only on condition that he/she is part of a group, e.g., | |||
| * ] -- | |||
| * ] -- . | |||
| Anticipating time constraints and other burdens, ] asked specifically, "How available will ... co-mentors need to be?" My response summarizes a fundamental assumption: "I anticipate that everyone's availability will vary and that the interest in issues which arise will also vary. To the extent that I can exert control over any situation, I project that no issue involving me will be limited or burdened with time constraints. I predict that, in general, only one or two at any one time will be involved in any one issue/dispute/event/topic, etc." | |||
| Another relevant factor is suggested by threads at ]: I was alarmed to read about situations in which mentors confronted role-related abuse; and I won't be alone in defending those whose only motivation is benevolent. | |||
| In the planning period, I from ] which arose as these mentors worked with each other, reinforcing a comment or observation with different words or a slightly different emphasis. | |||
| The group also encompasses non-public advisors who remain unidentified. In the preliminary period of organizing, an anonymous leader was pivotal in the process of distilling a plan drafted to be less than 200 words; and in this context, ]'s comments about counting words were rephrased and refocused by ]. Although unconventional in this ArbCom setting, the word counting illustrates an arguably constructive experiment already initiated by the Mentorship Committee. --] (]) 02:26, 19 February 2010 (UTC) | |||
| ====Response to ]==== | |||
| ] is the only one of us with ] experience. He has been off-wiki since late December; and it is unlikely that he will be able to add his voice here. A brief note from ] suggests that computer-hardware problems may explain and excuse this absence. I urge confirmation or "approval" as a mentor in anticipation of his return. | |||
| You will know that ] is one of ]'s mentors. His early advice was informed by what seemed to have worked well in that unique setting. For example, and were created as a result of his suggestions. | |||
| ]'s early involvement doubtless influenced others in their willingness to join my mentorship group. For example, when ] agreed to join, he wrote, --] (]) 05:20, 19 February 2010 (UTC) | |||
| === Statement by other user === | |||
| <!-- Leave this section for others to add additional statements --> | |||
| As requested by Tenmei I will provide some oversight over his editing. I hope that this will allow everyone to get back to what we are here for, writing an encyclopedia.] (] · ] · ]) 22:36, 18 February 2010 (UTC) (jmh649) | |||
| I as well have volunteered to provide some oversight. Arbcom said that he is topic banned, does that mean he can contribute to those areas while under oversight, or does it simply mean he needs to be observed in all his edits? --''']''' ''(] | ])'' 04:16, 19 February 2010 (UTC) | |||
| I'm willing to help Tenmei learn to be concise when posting comments. Based on my observations, he has a tendency to be excessively wordy in his posts, which in turn lends itself to people having a tl;dr reaction to his posts. As long as there are several people on this "mentorship committee", I'm willing to help out. I have a lot of other things I do here, and I'd like this to have only a small impact on that. I think Tenmei can learn and improve (and he has in many ways), so hopefully this mentorship will be deemed unnecessary at some future point. ···]<sup>]</sup> · <small><font color="blue">]</font> · ]</small> 20:47, 19 February 2010 (UTC) | |||
| === Clerk notes === | |||
| === Arbitrator views and discussion === | |||
| *Tenmei, is it your plan for all of these people to be your mentors, or are you presenting a range of options in the hopes that ArbCom will designate which are acceptable? As well, your concision is appreciated, but there is no need to post word counts along with each of your comments. ] (]) 22:48, 18 February 2010 (UTC) | |||
| *It would be helpful if the editors put forward as proposed mentors would chime in here before any decision is made; but I'll point out that a return to editing suitably assisted is a desirable outcome and would be looked upon favorably. — ] <sup>]</sup> 00:09, 19 February 2010 (UTC) | |||
| ---- | |||
| == Request for clarification: ] == | |||
| '''Initiated by ''' Rannpháirtí anaithnid '''at''' 19:07, 17 February 2010 (UTC) | |||
| ''List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:'' | |||
| * {{userlinks|Rannpháirtí anaithnid}} (initiator) | |||
| Notice has been posted to ]. Membership as follows: | |||
| * {{admin|Masem}} (Moderator) | |||
| * {{admin|Xavexgoem}} (Moderator) | |||
| * {{userlinks|SebastianHelm}} | |||
| * {{userlinks|Snowded}} | |||
| * {{userlinks|HighKing}} | |||
| * {{userlinks|Bastun}} | |||
| * {{userlinks|Evertype}} | |||
| * {{userlinks|Nuclare}} | |||
| * {{userlinks|BritishWatcher}} | |||
| * {{userlinks|Kittybrewster}} | |||
| * {{userlinks|Rockpocket}} | |||
| * {{userlinks|Ddstretch}} | |||
| * {{userlinks|PhilKnight}} | |||
| * {{userlinks|Edokter}} | |||
| * {{userlinks|Red King}} | |||
| * {{userlinks|Jeanne boleyn}} | |||
| * {{userlinks|Waggers}} | |||
| * {{userlinks|Mooretwin}} | |||
| * {{userlinks|MusicInTheHouse}} | |||
| * {{userlinks|Grollum}} | |||
| * {{userlinks|Blue-Haired Lawyer}} | |||
| * {{userlinks|ClemMcGann}} | |||
| * {{userlinks|RashersTierney}} | |||
| * {{userlinks|FlyingToaster}} | |||
| * {{userlinks|BrownHairedGirl}} | |||
| * {{userlinks|Lucian Sunday}} | |||
| * {{userlinks|Redking7}} | |||
| * {{userlinks|Bogger}} | |||
| * {{userlinks|Fmph}} | |||
| * {{userlinks|Footyfanatic3000}} | |||
| * {{userlinks|Ww2censor}} | |||
| * {{userlinks|Daicaregos}} | |||
| * {{userlinks|Scolaire}} | |||
| * {{userlinks|Cuchullain}} | |||
| * {{userlinks|Sswonk}} | |||
| * {{userlinks|Valenciano}} | |||
| * {{userlinks|Sir Ophiuchus}} | |||
| * {{userlinks|Snappy}} | |||
| === Statement by Rannpháirtí anaithnid === | |||
| <!-- Describe the nature of your request, and any explanation or evidence why it is needed. | |||
| You can delete this comment when you have added your statement --> | |||
| The above case proposed ] to the dispute over how to refer to the island of Ireland and the state of Ireland on Misplaced Pages. The first of these were: | |||
| <blockquote> | |||
| The community is asked to open a new discussion for the purpose of obtaining agreement on a mechanism for assessing the consensus or majority view on the appropriate names for Ireland and related articles. The purpose of this discussion shall be to develop reasonably agreed-upon procedures for resolving this issue, without further disputes or rancor as to the fairness of the procedures used. Editors are asked to approach this discussion with an open mind and without emphasis on prior discussions that failed to reach agreement. | |||
| </blockquote> | |||
| That was discussion was opened at ]. It was undertaken in good faith but failed to reach a decision. A back-up procedure was as follows (2nd remedy): | |||
| <blockquote> | |||
| If the discussion convened under the terms of Remedy #1 does not result in a reasonable degree of agreement on a procedure within 14 days, then the Arbitration Committee shall designate a panel of three uninvolved administrators to develop and supervise an appropriate procedure. | |||
| </blockquote> | |||
| That ]. Over the subsequent months, consensus was unattainable among the participants of the process on the matter of the titles of the ] and ] articles. In light of that, a consensus decision was reached to hold a community wide vote on that matter (inspired by the ]). That ]. The outcome was to have the articles on the state at ] and the articles on the island at ] (with a disambiguation page at ]). The result was confirmed by ]. | |||
| Subsequent to that vote, the outstanding matters related to how to refer to Ireland/Republic of Ireland in other places (e.g. in articles). Agreement was reach on those matters by consensus. The result of that consensus has been added to the ]. | |||
| The titles/locations of those articles has been stable since the vote took place (September). The style guidelines have also been stable since their addition (December) and have been upheld on article discussion pages independent of it. | |||
| The final remedy related to the binding nature of the process: | |||
| <blockquote> | |||
| Once the procedures discussed in Remedy #1 (and, if necessary, Remedy #2) are implemented, no further page moves discussions related to these articles shall be initiated for a period of 2 years. | |||
| </blockquote> | |||
| Since the result of the vote became there was a substantial drop off in participation in the process and several editors formally withdrew from the process. Owing to this, some say that because of the process became derailed and thus is non-binding/non-completeable. Can we please have confirmation on the following: | |||
| * Have all of the procedures outlined in the request for arbitration have been fulfilled? | |||
| * Are the outcomes of the procedures now binding for the period outlined in Remedy 4? | |||
| * Is the process arising from this request for arbitration now complete? | |||
| -- <span style="font-family:Georgia, Times New Roman, serif;">RA</span> (]) 19:07, 17 February 2010 (UTC) | |||
| === Statement by Rockpocket === | |||
| I'd simply like to affirm Rannpháirtí anaithnid's request, above. We are in a period of relative calm, which probably reflects a ''de facto'' appreciation that the community consensus has been established even if many are unwilling to acknowledge it. Nevertheless, it would be helpful for ArbCom to officially sign off on this process, if only to preempt the inevitable arguments - at some point in the future - about when this debate is permitted to be rehashed. ]<font color="black">e</font>] 02:54, 18 February 2010 (UTC) | |||
| === Request for further clarification by SarekOfVulcan === | |||
| Assuming that there is a moratorium on "page move discussions", as stated below by Coren, does that further imply that there's a two-year moratorium on arguing that the poll was invalid/rigged/not binding/etc., and are persistent attempts to claim the above blockable under this decision? --] (]) 13:53, 19 February 2010 (UTC) | |||
| === Statement by other user === | |||
| <!-- Leave this section for others to add additional statements --> | |||
| === Clerk notes === | |||
| === Arbitrator views and discussion === | |||
| *While I do not think this has been formalized by motion, the committee ''did'' examine the result of the procedure as outline and endorsed the conclusion of the panel as satisfactory. Specifically, the procedures have been fulfilled, they are binding per remedy 4, and the committee now considers the matter to be closed. In practice, this means that the two year moratorium on further page move discussions is in force until September 18 2011. — ] <sup>]</sup> 20:17, 17 February 2010 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Recusing''' due to administrative actions I have taken in this area, but I generally agree with Coren. ] (]) 22:30, 18 February 2010 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Recused''' as I voted in the Ireland naming poll. ] (]) 22:46, 18 February 2010 (UTC) | |||
| *Try the method used for settling this sort of thing in ] <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — ] • ] • </span> 22:36, 20 February 2010 (UTC) | |||
| *:I'm not convinced the troubles with The Troubles, Ireland naming, etc have been solved. <span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> — ] • ] • </span> 00:14, 21 February 2010 (UTC) | |||
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