| Revision as of 11:00, 28 February 2010 editالنول (talk | contribs)81 edits →The criticism section again (2010)← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 14:15, 25 October 2024 edit undoQuicoleJR (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, New page reviewers14,604 edits I would say that this is one of the more important Misplaced Pages versions, since it is among the biggest and Arabic is an important language.Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit Advanced mobile edit | ||
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| {{WikiProject Misplaced Pages |importance=High}} | |||
| {| class="messagebox standard-talk oldafd" style="text-align:center;" | |||
| {{WikiProject Arab world|importance=Low}} | |||
| | width="48px" | ] || This article was nominated for ] on ], ]. The result of ] was '''keep'''. | |||
| {{WikiProject Books|referencework=yes}} | |||
| }} | |||
| {{Old afd|date=], ]|result='''keep'''|page=Articles on individual Misplaced Pages language editions}} | |||
| {{archives}} | |||
| ==Grammar changes== | |||
| '''Older conversations have been archived ].''' | |||
| Changing "team are" to "team is" is actually a ] change... ] (]) 09:50, 5 December 2019 (UTC) | |||
| == Deletion of the Sarah Hegazi article == | |||
| Unblocking of Arabic wikipedia in Syria was on February 13, 2009. I made a mistake last time. --] (]) 04:23, 28 February 2009 (UTC) | |||
| ⚫ | |||
| The article on ] was deleted. According to ] and , this has caused some controversy. There is a paragraph on the deletion and controversy in the Evaluation and criticism section. Please discuss possible changes to coverage of the event here. ] (]) 05:35, 18 August 2020 (UTC) | |||
| == The criticism section == | |||
| == Arabic Misplaced Pages Page == | |||
| Several administrators are trying to remove the criticism section because they believe it violates the "good faith" policy. Of course, this is a misunderstanding because this is not a talk page but a criticism section in an article. In a "criticism section" you get criticism, there is no assumption of good faith here. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 00:41, 24 October 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| :If you would like to keep the criticism section, you will need to rewrite that encyclopedically. Please read ] as a guide. Articles should not contain ] lists, and should be written as a ]. This is also the English Misplaced Pages. It would be much helpful if the sources were in English, especially for such controversial topics. This has nothing to do with the good-faith policy, but an apology for the attacks would be appreciated. '''<font color="navy" face="comic sans ms">]</font><font color="2d2db4" face="comic sans ms">]</font>''' 00:56, 24 October 2009 (UTC) | |||
| Hi, | |||
| Well, you will need to prove that the points listed under criticism are really trivia and not neutral. | |||
| Whom do I need to coordinate with to put in an Arabic Misplaced Pages Page? Requesting your assistance, please. | |||
| First, technically, your claims are invalid since the criticism section is very coherent (it is not a listing of miscellaneous points) and the points listed under it are all directly related to the clearly meaningful title of the section, which is "criticism." You need to show how this is a trivia section? You seem to know the titles of the laws but not how to apply them in real situations. | |||
| Thank you, | |||
| Your other claim, neutrality, is even less valid, because this is a ''criticism'' section-- if it were neutral then it would have deserved to be deleted since it would not make sense. The section simply lists critical points. | |||
| ⚫ | ] (]) 10:55, 7 March 2022 (UTC)Dsouza_Josh | ||
| :If you have relevant Arabic-language skills, and have useful information to contribute in a way that respects the rules, then you don't have to ask anyone's permission -- you can start editing right away. If you lack those prerequisites, it would probably be better not to get directly involved, though there's an "Embassy" page for non-Arabic speakers. ] (]) 19:19, 7 March 2022 (UTC) | |||
| Now to the discussion of your ulterior, emotion-based motives. How can you call by trivia such serious criticism as accusing the encyclopedia of having systemic bias in Islam-related topics, and noting that over 60% of its articles are stubs (which usually means they contain nothing at all but the title), etc. You are obviously biased yourself since you're an administrator in Misplaced Pages, but the Arabic Wiki is nothing like the English Wiki at all, it is just 100,000 empty pages with administrators who mostly do nothing but enjoying trips to the Wiki conventions. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 01:19, 24 October 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| :"A list" is the problem of that section. Misplaced Pages is supposed to give information efficiently, and a list is not it. Your list states points that others do not agree on, hence not making it neutral or not being provided by the most significant views (see ]). Lists on Misplaced Pages should not contain information like that because they aren't supposed be composed of trivia but rather state complete points of a subject. I suggest you rewrite the section as paragraphs. Also, I'm not an administrator. '''<font color="navy" face="comic sans ms">]</font><font color="2d2db4" face="comic sans ms">]</font>''' 01:29, 24 October 2009 (UTC) | |||
| == Blackout == | |||
| You have not provided anything new; what you say is just a reiteration of the previously refuted claims; though in a less organized fashion this time. | |||
| Arabic Misplaced Pages just announced a blackout in support of Palestine, so I wonder why that's not mentioned in the article yet ] (]) 17:14, 23 December 2023 (UTC) | |||
| Again: first of all, ] is irrelevant to this discussion since, as it clearly says, it deals with ''lists of miscellaneous information''. I fail to see the relation between this and the criticism section. | |||
| == Neutrality lost? == | |||
| Your rather personal statement that "a list is not an efficient manner of presenting information" is, besides being weird, not mentioned in any of the pages you referred to. We need to see a clear text saying that lists should be avoided-- ''"lists"'' not ''"lists of miscellaneous information,"'' don't jumble things. | |||
| Isn't the changing of the colors of the wikipedia symbol to the colors of the Palestinian flag violates Misplaced Pages's professed principals of Neutrality? Hebrew Misplaced Pages's symbol isn't colored Blue-White... ] (]) 10:09, 26 December 2023 (UTC) | |||
| Your definition of neutrality in a criticism section is problematic. The section contains referenced and logical statements that are raised in criticism of Ar Wiki-- of course the criticized party won't agree with the statements, they are not supposed to. The points in the section are logical and commonly raised by critics (sadly, most of those write in Arabic not English!). | |||
| :If you want to raise a formal complaint, you'd have to do so somewhere on , not here. Anyway, they were the colors of the 1917 ] before Palestine, and are known as ]... ] (]) 14:35, 26 December 2023 (UTC) | |||
| Anyway, I might rewrite the section as a paragraph if this is what it will take to end the discussion. Though I don't think this demand is properly founded based on the pages you referred to. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 03:03, 24 October 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| ::Yeah but you didn't answer their question ] (]) 04:26, 10 January 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :Never mind, do what you think is best. I just know that it can be better. '''<font color="navy" face="comic sans ms">]</font><font color="2d2db4" face="comic sans ms">]</font>''' 03:36, 24 October 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :::"Those colors are pan-Arab. But the text they added in the main page clearly states that Arabic Misplaced Pages stands in solidarity with Palestine. A formal complaint? Much good that would do. I am a regular Misplaced Pages donor because I believe in Misplaced Pages's mission statement. It's sad to see those core principals erode." | |||
| I have deleted the criticism section. Its sources are not accepted. The says that the content in ar wikipedia is weak. It does not say ''The Arabic Misplaced Pages suffers from heavy biased content, specifically in Islamic topics''.The seconed one, Knol, is not a reliable source. Therefore, this section does not contain any acceptable sources. --] (]) 23:04, 31 October 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :::"Basically the Arab version of the English "pseudoscience effort" | |||
| :::Pls do mention this too out there too" | |||
| :::Two comments made by me and earlier,someone else (the other guy's, atleast was pretty much on-topic, on-discussion) were reverted as SOAPBOXing for grounds that are pretty much only criticising enwiki or wiki in general when there ''is'' certainly stuff to criticize even on enwiki ] (]) 08:42, 13 January 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::You can say so, but they whitewashed Hamas's crimes there so maybe place this concern to all | |||
| :::https://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13169 ] (]) 00:30, 22 March 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :On the other hand, if this is true: there's definitely a violation there. ] (]) 23:45, 4 March 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == The criticism section again (2010) == | |||
| :I agree, The arabic wikipedia is very biased, I don't know how can this be allowed on wikipedia. ] (]) 09:43, 30 May 2024 (UTC) | |||
| The ''Criticism'' section as it appeared and as النول insists on restoring it is invalid. It contained three statements: the first, that Arabic Misplaced Pages was "accused of bias, specifically in Islamic topics", and refers to an article at rnw.nl which does not mention neither Islam nor religion at all. The second statement reported the number of stubs in Arabic Misplaced Pages, referenced by the number of items in the Arabic equivalent of Category:Stubs. Fair enough but is this criticism? It's merely a fact, and the interpretation of this fact as "criticism" is done by the author, i.e. original research. The third statement is "One journalist claimed that the 2008 Wikimania in Cairo concluded that Arabic Misplaced Pages was the worst of all of the Wikipedias." It is not clear why the claim of that journalist is important enough to be included in this article. If it is indeed one of the official conclusions of Wikimania, then it would be more logical to refer to an authoritative report about Wikimania itself. Thus, the section did not contain any notable information and was deleted. --] (]) 14:42, 16 February 2010 (UTC) | |||
| * The rnw.nl article talks about Hamas, the use of word Chahid, martyr, and many other things in The Arabic wiki, anyone can use Google's auto translations to check it. | |||
| : also, the fact is a fact, stubs in Arabic wiki are more than written articles, bot articles!! | |||
| : remember, these are criticism, opinions, not generally with ur point of view, or...SIDE. ] (]) 15:49, 25 February 2010 (UTC) | |||
| * At last you chose to participate in talk! The rnw.nl does ''mention'' Hamas, Fateh, Khamenei and the Shah but these issues are, first, political rather than religious (the word ''religion'' and derivatives are not used in that text at all, unlike ''politics'', ''culture'' and other terms) and, second, there is a mention that there were discussions about the use of ''shahid'', whether it was neutral or not. That's all! Such things belong to Wikinews rather than Misplaced Pages. Thus, your conclusion ''especially in Islamic topics'' is unfounded, as I mentioned above. That the stubs are bot-written articles is unfounded: you don't refer to any published statistics on that. And the 'fact' that stubs constitute the majority is merely a fact, not even an opinion (because it is unpublished). You may like to add it to another section, like ''Statistics'' or ''Content'' but not ''Criticism''. Misplaced Pages is not for listing anecdotes. And you did not answer any of my points above. --] (]) 17:14, 25 February 2010 (UTC) | |||
| * Ok, better to say, it talks about arabs and their behavior on the net, with encyclopedias, more precise, since the title is: Arabs and Misplaced Pages, i'll change it. | |||
| i'll emove the bot section. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 17:25, 25 February 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| * This was better. I wish you looked before it was deleted altogether. The problem is that all that can be referenced about Arabic Misplaced Pages is merely a couple of anecdotes, not a single study can be located. And these should be placed in WikiNews, not in Misplaced Pages. Not mentioning that both references are rather weak: the first claims, for example, that googling for Libya (in Arabic) would not put it on top of search results, which was false at the date of publication. The second allegedly refers to conclusions of Wikimania in Alexandria, possibly misrepresenting them. In this case one should refer to the original Wikimania documents which should be available, rather that someone's interpretations. Arabic Misplaced Pages can be blamed for many things, but there are no decent publications about the issue. If we take the issue formally, Arabic Misplaced Pages does not satisfy any of the ] required here. --] (]) 20:02, 25 February 2010 (UTC) | |||
| * Seems for me, you don't want to hear any criticism, remember again, '''this is the English wiki''', not the Arabic one, on which you reside at the momen, you said: '''''ONE journalist living in the Netherlands!!!''''' , utterly abnormal, also, you deleted the Akhabr article, there's another i'll add later, '''a masquerade?''' --] (]) 18:35, 26 February 2010 (UTC) | |||
| * This is not about criticism. What you refer to (I mean rnw.nl) is not a notable view for an encyclopedia: it is not based on a systematic review or study. At most, it can be cited in WikiNews, not it Misplaced Pages. As for the Akhbar article, it is even of less value, and seemingly you insist to include it again and again because you liked its title. As I said before, there seems to be no reliable sources about Arabic Misplaced Pages at all. --] (]) 18:52, 26 February 2010 (UTC) | |||
| * You want Enstein to write an article about arabic wikipedia perhaps, i'll transmit this to the admin board, they removed the knol link, let check again! maybe. --] (]) 19:04, 26 February 2010 (UTC) | |||
| * That's up to you. From my side, I am going to undo any overgeneralisations or poorly referenced statements, as required by Misplaced Pages rules. --] (]) 14:42, 27 February 2010 (UTC) | |||
| * Here is a detailed information, Mohamed the prophet, has no imagery in the Arabic wiki, but in all wikis, unless, there's Arabs here, in the English admin board also! who will agree with you. (even it's witten in the coran!)--] (]) 16:24, 27 February 2010 (UTC) | |||
| ::The Arabic Misplaced Pages does seem to have significant problems, but that's not really one of them -- there are '''no''' authentic portraits of Muhammad, or even depictions of Muhammad made close to the time when he lived. That being the case, why shouldn't Arabic Misplaced Pages take into account the sensitivities of probably the majority of its users on a somewhat inessential issue? ] (]) 17:17, 27 February 2010 (UTC) | |||
| ::: It is indeed, Islamic sensitivities what makes it so, for this, it's perhaps not an '''inessential''' issue. --] (]) 18:58, 27 February 2010 (UTC) | |||
| ::::If someone wrote a separate and completely legitimate article on "Artistic depictions of Muhammad" and that article was deleted for no real reason other than religious censorship, then that would definitely be a problem. However, the fact that there are no images of Muhammad on the main <big>محمد</big> article is not particularly a problem -- given that there are no historically authentic portraits of Muhammad dating from during his lifetime or close to his lifetime, and that depictions of Muhammad do not play any very meaningful role in the Islamic religion. (Yes, there was a tradition of Persian miniature type images, but though these Persian etc. miniatures can be a glorious artistic achievement, they were always kind of "unofficial" in religious terms, and depictions of Muhammad do not play a role in Islamic religion remotely comparable to that which images of Jesus or Mary have in Christianity etc.) The Arabic Misplaced Pages can be a very strange place in some respects, and there definitely do seem to be some problems there, but the fact that there are no images of Muhammad on the <big>محمد</big> article is not one of those problems, so you need to come up with a better example. ] (]) 10:00, 28 February 2010 (UTC) | |||
| : Sorry, the rnw.nl link doesn't talk about Mohamed depiction in ar wiki, i'd just told this to abnima, pointing out, how it was impossible to write freely in the ar wiki. His depictions, i don't really care about (only danish newspapers and Muslim ambassadors). rnw.nl instead, showed flaws with the use of words like '''HAMAS,MARTYRS, CHAHID, PERSIAN-ARABIC GULF''' a very polarized '''ENCYCLOPEDIA'''. | |||
| I just want to expose this in the En wiki, it's not my opinion after all, but of many Arabs (Muslims and liberals), in fact, I'm skeptical about the term '''Encyclopedia''' | |||
Latest revision as of 14:15, 25 October 2024
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 | This article was nominated for deletion on February 18, 2007. The result of the discussion was keep. |
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Grammar changes
Changing "team are" to "team is" is actually a MOS:ENGVAR change... AnonMoos (talk) 09:50, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
Deletion of the Sarah Hegazi article
The article on Sarah Hegazi was deleted. According to reliable sources BBC Arabic and Raseef22, this has caused some controversy. There is a paragraph on the deletion and controversy in the Evaluation and criticism section. Please discuss possible changes to coverage of the event here. BlackcurrantTea (talk) 05:35, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
Arabic Misplaced Pages Page
Hi,
Whom do I need to coordinate with to put in an Arabic Misplaced Pages Page? Requesting your assistance, please.
Thank you, Dsouza Josh (talk) 10:55, 7 March 2022 (UTC)Dsouza_Josh
- If you have relevant Arabic-language skills, and have useful information to contribute in a way that respects the rules, then you don't have to ask anyone's permission -- you can start editing right away. If you lack those prerequisites, it would probably be better not to get directly involved, though there's an "Embassy" page for non-Arabic speakers. AnonMoos (talk) 19:19, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
Blackout
Arabic Misplaced Pages just announced a blackout in support of Palestine, so I wonder why that's not mentioned in the article yet Gattor1 (talk) 17:14, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
Neutrality lost?
Isn't the changing of the colors of the wikipedia symbol to the colors of the Palestinian flag violates Misplaced Pages's professed principals of Neutrality? Hebrew Misplaced Pages's symbol isn't colored Blue-White... 89.208.62.122 (talk) 10:09, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
- If you want to raise a formal complaint, you'd have to do so somewhere on Meta.Wikimedia.org, not here. Anyway, they were the colors of the 1917 Flag of the Arab Revolt before Palestine, and are known as Pan-Arab colors... AnonMoos (talk) 14:35, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
- Yeah but you didn't answer their question 78.147.35.211 (talk) 04:26, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
- "Those colors are pan-Arab. But the text they added in the main page clearly states that Arabic Misplaced Pages stands in solidarity with Palestine. A formal complaint? Much good that would do. I am a regular Misplaced Pages donor because I believe in Misplaced Pages's mission statement. It's sad to see those core principals erode."
- "Basically the Arab version of the English "pseudoscience effort"
- Pls do mention this too out there too"
- Two comments made by me and earlier,someone else (the other guy's, atleast was pretty much on-topic, on-discussion) were reverted as SOAPBOXing for grounds that are pretty much only criticising enwiki or wiki in general when there is certainly stuff to criticize even on enwiki 2402:E280:3D1D:5B0:A931:9CB8:4420:455 (talk) 08:42, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
- You can say so, but they whitewashed Hamas's crimes there so maybe place this concern to all
- https://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13169 CD967119 (talk) 00:30, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah but you didn't answer their question 78.147.35.211 (talk) 04:26, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
- On the other hand, if this is true: there's definitely a violation there. AnonMoos (talk) 23:45, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
- I agree, The arabic wikipedia is very biased, I don't know how can this be allowed on wikipedia. Yehonatan19 (talk) 09:43, 30 May 2024 (UTC)