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Revision as of 08:19, 4 August 2010 editCarcharoth (talk | contribs)Administrators73,578 edits Arbitrator views and discussion: tweak← Previous edit Latest revision as of 00:36, 4 January 2025 edit undoHouseBlaster (talk | contribs)Edit filter managers, Administrators58,542 edits hatting as withdrawn (user:SimpleSubCubicGraph
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== Amendment request: Armenia-Azerbaijan_3 ==
== Request for clarification: ] ==
{{hat|Withdrawn. <b>]]</b>&nbsp;(]&nbsp;•&nbsp;he/they) 00:36, 4 January 2025 (UTC)}}
'''Initiated by ''' <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> '''at''' 07:00, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
'''Initiated by''' ] '''at''' 18:48, 3 January 2025 (UTC)


;Case or decision affected
''List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:''
:{{RFARlinks|Armenia-Azerbaijan_3}}
*{{admin|Sandstein}} (initiator)
*{{userlinks|Brews ohare}} ()
*{{userlinks|Hell in a Bucket}} ()
*Possibly the contributors to ] ()


; Clauses to which an amendment is requested
=== Statement by Sandstein ===
#
I request clarification about whether the sanction ] has expired.


The motion of 20:37, 29 March 2010 recorded at ] reads in relevant part:
:"The supplementary restrictions of Brews ohare (namely, restrictions from posting on physics related disputes or the Misplaced Pages/Wikipedia talk namespaces) will also expire 90 days from the date that this motion passes."
It is not clear whether sanction 3, entitled "Brews ohare restricted" is part of the "supplementary restrictions" that the motion refers to, because it is not listed in the "(namely ...)" part of the motion and, in the list of sanctions on the case page, it is not followed by the comment "Modified by motions below" as is sanction 4.2, entitled "Brews ohare topic banned".


; List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:
The question is relevant because I have just been enforcing sanction 3, following an enforcement request at ]. It has subsequently been ] that sanction 3 has expired. Should that turn out to be the case, my enforcement action was in error, but in this case I ask the Committee to consider reinstating the sanction by motion because, as the enforcement request shows, it appears to continue to be necessary.
<!--This list should only be changed after filing by clerks and Arbitrators. All others should ask to add an involved user. One place to request an addition is at the clerks noticeboard ]-->
*{{userlinks|SimpleSubCubicGraph}} (initiator)


I would also appreciate it if the Committee would consider establishing a process to ensure that arbitration case pages always unambiguously reflect any change in status of the decisions without much need for interpretation. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 07:00, 4 August 2010 (UTC)


; Information about amendment request
=== Statement by other user ===
*
<!-- Leave this section for others to add additional statements -->
:*I request a modification to the probation period, and want the probation to end immediately and for all pages involving Armenia-Azerbaijan, except the ] wars to be downgraded to Autoconfirmed Protection.


=== Clerk notes ===


=== Arbitrator views and discussion === === Statement by SimpleSubCubicGraph ===
A recent statement was made by Armenia offering condolences to Azerbaijan which has almost never happened, I believe that Armenia and Azerbaijan related pages blanket protection of Extended Confirmed should be lowered to Autoconfirmed protection, with the exception of the wars between the two sovereign nations. Additionally, relations are getting better between the two countries. For nearly 30 years, relations were rock bottom, diplomats were not found in Azerbaijan nor Armenia and tensions were at an all time high. However ever since the 2020 war the two nations have started to make amends. This first started with the peace deal ending the war between the two nations. Turkey whom is a staunch ally of Azerbaijan has started to resume direct flights from ], the capital of Armenia and ], the largest city in the Republic of Turkiye. In 2023, Armenia and Azerbaijan entered into extensive bilateral negotiations as well as a prisoner exchange between the two countries, and Armenia supported Azerbaijan for being the host of the UN climate change forum. Finally, last year the two countries solved many border issues and created a transport route between the two countries which is a symbol of peace. The two nations are much better off now than they were just 4 years ago and can be seen as having a cooperative/reconciling attitude. That is why I propose an amendment that will immediately downgrade all protections (from ] to ]) for all Armenia-Azerbaijan related pages.
*First up, I would encourage Sandstein (as someone active in arbitration enforcement) to approach the clerks and sort out a good way of making sure that it is clear what is in force or not following an amendment. The topic ban does have the phrase appended in italics ''Modified by motions below 02:41, 27 January 2010 (UTC)'', but there are other, possibly clearer options, such as collapsing old text to avoid it being unintentionally read as still in force (in passing, the previous confusion caused at the date-delinking case is still there, so you could raise that as well). I suggest going to the ] to raise these issues. ] (]) 08:09, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
:@] then how would I appeal or ask the community to lift sanctions over Armenia-Azerbaijan ] (]) 00:13, 4 January 2025 (UTC) <small>{{clerk note}} Moved to own section <b>]]</b>&nbsp;(]&nbsp;•&nbsp;he/they) 00:15, 4 January 2025 (UTC)</small>
**Moving on to the issue that needs clarification, I support the reinstatement of the topic ban, but I think that an indefinite topic ban requires a new ArbCom motion, and that any arbitration enforcement action should only extend to reinstating previous sanctions, not extending them (or, at most, resetting them to a length not greater than the original sanction). Accordingly, I would suggest reimposing the topic ban until 20 October 2010, and also reactivating the exceptions (numbers 1 and 2) that allow participation in featured article candidacy discussions solely in order to discuss images and to edit said images. I would also suggest that if the topic ban expires or is lifted at some point, that Brews Ohare realise that he needs to ''change'' his approach to such articles and to write down how he will change his approach, and if he cannot change his approach, to avoid such articles otherwise he ''will'' end up indefinitely topic banned. And to clarify a few other points, I view remedy 3 (the general probation) as still in force, and I believe the wording of the motion referring to "supplementary restrictions" referred to the 24 November 2009 restrictions imposed by Tznkai and logged at the case page in the logs section. Finally, I agree that the ''actual'' expiration of the topic ban should have been logged at the case pages at or soon after the point it expired. ] (]) 08:09, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

----
:@] going off what voorts said, can this suggestion be repealed/deleted? ] (]) 00:22, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

=== Statement by voorts ===
{{ping|SimpleSubCubicGraph}} ECP-only edits were imposed by the community as a ], not by ArbCom. ArbCom does not have jurisdiction here. That said, whether or not Armenian-Azerbaijani relations are warming, the community has imposed sanctions here (and ArbCom has designated this area as a contentious topic) because of disruption in the topic area by editors. I highly doubt that you'd get the community to agree to change this rule, given that editors are still routinely sanctioned under this GS. See ]. ] (]/]) 23:49, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
: {{ping|SimpleSubCubicGraph}} There is. You can read ] for more information. However, as I said, there is almost zero chance that you will get this sanction to be removed. You should be patient and wait to get 500 edits and EC. ] (]/]) 00:25, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

=== Statement by {other-editor} ===
Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the amendment request or provide additional information.
<!-- * Please copy this section for the next person. * -->

=== Armenia-Azerbaijan_3: Clerk notes ===
:''This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).''
*

=== Armenia-Azerbaijan_3: Arbitrator views and discussion ===
*
{{hab}}

Latest revision as of 00:36, 4 January 2025

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Amendment request: Armenia-Azerbaijan_3

Withdrawn. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 00:36, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Initiated by SimpleSubCubicGraph at 18:48, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Case or decision affected
Armenia-Azerbaijan_3 arbitration case (t) (ev / t) (w / t) (pd / t)
Clauses to which an amendment is requested
  1. Olympian ban on Armenia-Azerbaijan


List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request


Information about amendment request
  • I request a modification to the probation period, and want the probation to end immediately and for all pages involving Armenia-Azerbaijan, except the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict wars to be downgraded to Autoconfirmed Protection.


Statement by SimpleSubCubicGraph

A recent statement was made by Armenia offering condolences to Azerbaijan which has almost never happened, I believe that Armenia and Azerbaijan related pages blanket protection of Extended Confirmed should be lowered to Autoconfirmed protection, with the exception of the wars between the two sovereign nations. Additionally, relations are getting better between the two countries. For nearly 30 years, relations were rock bottom, diplomats were not found in Azerbaijan nor Armenia and tensions were at an all time high. However ever since the 2020 war the two nations have started to make amends. This first started with the peace deal ending the war between the two nations. Turkey whom is a staunch ally of Azerbaijan has started to resume direct flights from Yerevan, the capital of Armenia and Istanbul, the largest city in the Republic of Turkiye. In 2023, Armenia and Azerbaijan entered into extensive bilateral negotiations as well as a prisoner exchange between the two countries, and Armenia supported Azerbaijan for being the host of the UN climate change forum. Finally, last year the two countries solved many border issues and created a transport route between the two countries which is a symbol of peace. The two nations are much better off now than they were just 4 years ago and can be seen as having a cooperative/reconciling attitude. That is why I propose an amendment that will immediately downgrade all protections (from ECP to ACP) for all Armenia-Azerbaijan related pages.

@Voorts then how would I appeal or ask the community to lift sanctions over Armenia-Azerbaijan SimpleSubCubicGraph (talk) 00:13, 4 January 2025 (UTC)  Clerk note: Moved to own section HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 00:15, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
@Houseblaster going off what voorts said, can this suggestion be repealed/deleted? SimpleSubCubicGraph (talk) 00:22, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

Statement by voorts

@SimpleSubCubicGraph: ECP-only edits were imposed by the community as a general sanction, not by ArbCom. ArbCom does not have jurisdiction here. That said, whether or not Armenian-Azerbaijani relations are warming, the community has imposed sanctions here (and ArbCom has designated this area as a contentious topic) because of disruption in the topic area by editors. I highly doubt that you'd get the community to agree to change this rule, given that editors are still routinely sanctioned under this GS. See WP:GS/AA. voorts (talk/contributions) 23:49, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

@SimpleSubCubicGraph: There is. You can read WP:GS for more information. However, as I said, there is almost zero chance that you will get this sanction to be removed. You should be patient and wait to get 500 edits and EC. voorts (talk/contributions) 00:25, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

Statement by {other-editor}

Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the amendment request or provide additional information.

Armenia-Azerbaijan_3: Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Armenia-Azerbaijan_3: Arbitrator views and discussion

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