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Armenian editors

Hey Marshall, I’m new to wiki and had some questions regarding our editors. Particularly, where are they? I was looking at some Arm related wiki articles and saw couple pages being edited in somewhat strange ways. Armenian translations of the place were being edited and pushed next to Az ones, and Az moved first. Now I know this isn’t that big of a deal, but I didn’t saw any reason for that kind of change and objected here for example. With the help of an admin, consensus reached for the alphabetical order, and the dispute ended. But I see many other subtle changes getting unnoticed on our pages such as reorderings of translation/etc. I’m doing this on my free time so I can’t dedicate too much here sorry, but I thought that we would have legit full time wiki editors, don’t we? Our wikiProject seems rather inactive, why is that? Is there a specific reason? Thanks in advance! ZaniGiovanni (talk) 03:08, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Hi. Well, I'm not as active as I once was, but I'm sure they're all over Wiki. Misplaced Pages has its own guidelines regarding the order and priority of place names and such, so it may not always be a simple matter of malign intent by editors. Wikiproject Armenia may seem to be a good forum to discuss current events and issues, but most everything here is ad hoc, or at least it should be. Agreeing to collaborate and improve an article is fine; but coordinating with others off-Wiki is generally frowned upon (and, though I'm not entirely sure, may actually even be in contravention to editing rules). Feel free to ping me if you experience any issues. Best, Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 15:35, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, take care. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 22:18, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Questionable villages in Armenia

Hi Marshall, I had a question regarding some villages in Armenia and the validity of their existence. So there was the village article Azizkend which didn't show up in any maps, on top of that had very biased/unreliable source as evidence of its existence. It was nominated for deletion, and got removed at the end. I found similar villages presumably being in Armenia (which don't even have the Armenian translation/name next to them), you can have a read here (4th paragraph). I tagged both the villages I managed to find (maybe there are more), and explained how biased and unreliable the source is in each one of them is. What do you propose to be done with those supposed villages? I'm new to wiki that's why I'm asking more experienced editors like you. Should they be nominated for deletion like Azizkend, as they have the same bogus political view/concept source (the other one has a fabricated title as well, tho not the exact same source)? And if so, I myself don't know the correct way to do it and to be frank, don't have the free time as of now sorry. If it wouldn't be hard for you please look at the villages I linked in my message. I think they don't even exist (not showing in maps) and the edits were not done in good faith as evident by their "sources" and a push for Azeri translation on those pages done by a blocked sockmaster account 1, 2, 3 (tho blocked not for editing those exact pages, still clearly the sockmaster had an agenda). Even if those villages were abandoned, we can't rely on the past existence of those villages solely based on their very alarming/propaganda sources, also given how the editor's additions' clearly not done in good faith as well. And if possible, how can we check if other Armenian articles/villages have the same source as evidence of their current/past existence? Thanks for your attention. I’m looking forward to your reply. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 22:24, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Hi. If you read Armenian, you may try to cross-reference some of these locales with the Hayastani ev harakits shrjanneri teghanunneri bararan (Dictionary of toponymy of Armenia and adjacent territories), a multivolume edited collection. It's not perfect, but it will probably be the best and most reliable way to verify that these places indeed exist. Best, Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 22:34, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

Help with Draft:Stepan_Zatikyan?

I have received an email by the creator of the article, and was asked to review it, but I do not understand enough Armenian to do so. I read the article, which I thought was quite interesting. Maybe you could help? Paradise Chronicle (talk) 08:09, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

I can take a glance at it, sure. Is there anything I should be looking for or should be scrutinizing more closely? Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 20:53, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

Mainly if what is stated in the article is also in the sources. As to me, some quotes are a bit too long for Misplaced Pages, (I'll include some invisible comments) and I'll probably copy edit that part. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 22:05, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

I have just noticed you are a reviewer, so if you feel the article is good to go, I will not copy edit anymore.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 00:43, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Still has some structural issues and problems with tone, but I think generally the sources are fine and reliable. Will let you know if I run into any major problems. Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 14:07, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Armenians removed from Mount Nemrut article

Hi Marshall, as of feb 2020 a user by name of History of Iran suddenly removed all mention of Armenians from the Mount Nemrut article that was there for over 12 years. You can check the history revision and I gave the sources, since they said putting unsourced material. Here are the sources: David M. Lang (2008) . "Iran, Armenia and Georgia". In Ehsan Yarshater (ed.). The Cambridge History of Iran Volume 3: The Seleucid, Parthian and Sasanid Periods, Part 1. Cambridge University Press. p. 510. Please help out to add back Armenians in this article, I checked the international wikipedias and also youtube videos, almost all of them mention Armenians. 195.191.186.124 (talk) 16:53, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

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Arapgir

Instead of readding unsourced info (regardless of the content), you should find reliable references to back it up. --Semsûrî (talk) 09:47, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Semsûrî (talk) 14:49, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

Warning

Look, MarshallBagramyan, if you are unable to explain yourself calmly (and at all), about reverting back unsourced content or anything, this probably isn't going to work out. Please do better. Thanks. El_C 15:44, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

We've been kowtowing to the denialists on Misplaced Pages for almost two decades now. If the regular cast of characters keep showing up and keep continuing to edit in bad faith, knowing full well that the information (even if momentarily unsourced) is reasonably accurate, then they should be bruquely shoved aside. How much do you indulge in continued removal of historic names and outright denial of past historic events? After 16 years of editing, you recognize that sort and don't tolerate any further. Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 17:01, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

MarshallBagramyan, if you're unable to keep this kind of aggression in check, then perhaps the WP:AA2 topic area just isn't for you... El_C 19:12, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

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Ani

Hi. With this edit, you left the following sentence unfinished: Ani stood on various trade routes and its many religious buildings, palaces, and sophisticated fortifications. Could you resolve this? Lennart97 (talk) 13:17, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

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Please either open up a section either on your or my page before randomly adding tags

You can't just willy nilly add tags. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Heyjudek (talk • contribs) 05:54, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

Burning of Smyrna

Hi, I see that you are deleting my edits. Among my edits are also sources that are used within the article. What is your logic behind it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Utku Öziz (talk • contribs) 09:33, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

Hi! Please see the talk where I explain the problem with your insertions. And don't edit war, alright?! Thanks! Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 12:17, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

When I checked from my phone, I saw that you wrote to me already, but I cannot see it from here. Are you referring to that talk? There you asked the Newspaper page. The reporter had interviews with the passengers of the ship that landed on the 2nd of October 1922. They stated that they burned their own property so that the Turks could not have it. The Newspaper told this as a patriotic act. The same newspaper is used in the same page. Why did you delete it when it states this? The same phenomenon can also be seen from the memoirs of the Greek Soldier Vasilis Diamantopoulos, who mentions that the Greek civilians of Aydın burned the town and the Greek soldiers could not prevent it. How can I add a PDFs here for you to see. I also have the Paul Greskovich's report in PDF. I just bought the pages of it from the Ottoman Archives. Who was the head of the Fire department. Utku Öziz (talk) 12:52, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

This isn't the proper place to discuss these changes. I already explained my reasoning on the article's talk page. But, in brief, not all primary sources were created equal and much of the information that was emerging after the fire was necessarily accurate. Fortunately, through the benefit of hindsight and the work of historians, we now have a much better grasp of the event and can make out the reliable sources from the unreliable ones. The sources you keep trying make insert are either demonstrably false, which is unhelpful to readers, or add little value to the article. Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 23:15, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

FAR notice - First Nagorno-Karabakh War

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"Shapurgala" and "List of castles and fortresses in Azerbaijan"

Sorry for bothering you, but I came across these two pages that need to be edited. I would edit these myself if I had the time and resources but at the moment I am unable to do so, so I want to share this with you since you are more experienced at editing pages;

The first page I came across is a list of castles and fortresses in Azerbaijan, what concerned me were the Nakhijevan, Artsakh, and Ganjabasar sections. Armenian fortresses within these lists are portrayed as "Caucasian Albanian" despite other sources and even their own wikipedia pages saying so.

The second page I came across was the one about the Shahbuz fortress, Shapurgala. Which is written like an anti-Armenian hit piece about why the castle wasn't Armenian and how Armenian "revisionists" are trying to cover up its "Azeri origins".

Again, I'm not a frequent wikipedia editor and I would edit these pages if I had time to, but I'm asking you if you could fix these pages for me if that is possible.

Shnorhakalutyun - EpeBah (talk) 23:48, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing this to my attention, and I agree the way that article was written was atrocious. Since I couldn't parse fact from fiction from it, I decided it best to shear the whole thing down to just its lead sentence. Maybe someone more competent will eventually be able to write an article about it. Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 12:38, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, I'll try to see if I can find any information and sources regarding the fortresses page, as well as general information about Shahbuz fortress and try to add them in my spare time

Much appreciated,

EpeBah (talk) 04:35, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

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The Armenia Barnstar for being a voice of reason

		The Armenia Barnstar
		Thanks for defending Movses Khorenatsi against the psychotic slanderers, like on the Sisak talk page. AlphabeticThing9 (talk) 02:03, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

An FYI

If you have not been keeping up on current events, you may want to read this. If you have any questions feel free to post on my talk page or email me. Stay safe! --Kansas Bear (talk) 20:42, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

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ANI

Hi Marshall Bagramyan, please forgive me my joke of the "misspelled" ANI notice (in Caps, should have also lower case). Just to explain a bit my revert. I double checked what could be used, and what removed as I also thought, the addition seemed very large. But all I noticed was that the addition was either new to the lead or the body and surprisingly in both places sourced. Then I moved of the admittedly large UNESCO text, some to a new UNESCO section in the body. Please check as well, but in my opinion it was a good addition of the new editor, at the wrong place, but for a first edit, wow, welcome. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 07:21, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Most of it was irrelevant. I went ahead and removed the material on the Seljuks again, much of which was supported by a rather shoddy source called "World Edu." As I wrote in the summary, please keep the information pertinent to the article topic and when possible refer to books published by university presses or by actual scholars, not anonymous websites. Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 14:08, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

Over 4500 bytes on UNESCO World Heritage irrelevant? I didn't see the Seljuk stuff, though and thanks for that. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 15:25, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

Karabakh in 1919

Hi MarshallBagramyan, thanks for your work on making the Shusha massacre article more concise. Since you have an interest in this part of history, I'm currently working on a new article about the August 1919 treaty which temporarily subjugated Karabakh to Azerbaijan – if you're interested in working on it together, I would really like that, it needs work on the Azerbaijani treaty violations, the Stepanakert massacre in February, and the March uprising. Best, – Olympian 00:58, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi! And thanks! I wish I could accept your offer about collaborating, but these days I'm afraid I'm a bit too busy to make too many substantive contributions. Feel free to ping me in case you'd like me to take a look at any works in progress. I'll continue to check in regularly. Best, Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 18:55, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

No problem, thanks! – Olympian 02:04, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

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New friend

Hi dear, I am wiki editor from the same circle of interests as yours. I am implementing a wiki project and would like to invite you to participate. If you are interested please give me your email I'll write you the details. Օֆելյա Հակոբյան (talk) 21:29, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

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Civility

You must provide edit summaries with a valid reason for reverting other editors work. I do not want to hear any personal remarks from you such as "What would you know?". Ever. If it repeats even one more time, I will consider it harassment. I am not going to respond in kind: "Revert pathetic attention seeking losers". I expect everyone to maintain a productive editing environment. Cornsimpel (talk) 06:26, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Perhaps you should actually underline what you find so problematic with a source instead of deleting it without nary a constructive comment. We've been dealing with genocide denialists on this site for almost 20 years now and to see the removal of any and all mention of Armenians, the Armenian Genocide, Armenian place names, etc., is tiring and pathetic. Neither I nor other editors will brook such willful attempts distort or alter clearly-established facts. Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 16:47, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Orontid dynasty

Can you restore Armenian dynasty on the top first sentence? Since 2006 ever since this article was created, it’s always said Armenian dynasty. Add David Marshall Lang and M. Chahin sources. The user that goes by the name of “HistoryofIran” (who is actually an Azeri Turk based on his edits), is removing almost everything that was Armenian to “Iranian”, specially when it has to do with the Orontid dynasty. There are like 5 sources that state Orontids were an Armenian state or dynasty, that he put under the Iranian sources. Where it says “Some historians say Orontid was Iranian origin”, 5 sources stating Armenian, one of them says it 3 times by David Marshall Lang. He is also cherry picking Cyril Toumanoff, who also states that Orontids were an Armenian monarchy. Explain also that the Orontid dynasty was Armenian because linguists classified Armenian as an Iranian language, the Iranian mentioned doesn’t mean Persians necessarily. 2600:6C50:1F0:9730:7D8E:28D3:CE62:233D (talk) 14:08, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

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