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==Critique of the Finno-Ugric and Uralic Language Groups==
For the following reasons, some ] criticize the classification of the ] and the ] family:

* The primary grammatical similiarity of these languages is ]. But agglutination also occurs in non-Finno-Ugric and non-Uralic languages, like ], ], ], ], ], and ].
* The words of the Uralic and Finno-Ugric languages are very different. This includes the ], like family words (mother, father, brother, sister), words for body parts, like eyes, leg, hand, foot, neck, etc., words for living environment like house, grass, way, path, and the like, household tools like fork, bottle, and vessel, and foods like bread, fat, corn, and meat.
* These language categories came into existence at the end of the 19th century and were created by foreigners (no Finns, Estonians, Hungarians or others whose languages are categorized to be in this group). In Hungary the linguist who promoted this group was ], who learned Hungarian when he was 23 years old, and was never able to speak it on the level of a native speaker. The categories came into existence for political reasons and not for linguistic ones.
* The speakers of the here grouped languages are ] very different (Finnish and Estonian European, Nordic, Lappic Mixed, North European and Asian, Hungarian European mixed, others Mongolian), this indicates, that these people have never lived together (except ], ] and the Mongolian people), and the grammatic similarities are consequences of the ] cultural emission.

==Grammar==

===Typology for Turanian agglutinating languages===
Here are the features af all ] agglutinating languages listed, including Turkish, Persian, Basque, etc. Here we call Turanian agglutinating languages those languages that reside along the emission line of the ] culture, e.g. ], ], ], ], ] ], ], ], etc...
* Nouns
** Extensive use of independent ]es, also known as (])
** No noun classes, that is no ] of words
** Many grammatical cases (], ]) or no grammatical cases at all (]). For Hungarian foreign linguists (e.g. B. Collinder) created "cases", but these are unused in Hungarian grammar, since counterproductive for understanding and learning.
** Use of ] to indicate ownership, therefore no ], and generally no usage of ], but of ]. (ház, házam /=house, my house/)
* Verbs
** The verb "have" either not existing or seldom used, as in ]
* Phonetics
** ] – may not exist in all, like ] or ]
** ] is typically on a fixed word position, once in a word. In ] and ] always the first ] of a word, in ], ] and ] the last syllable is accented, with a few exceptions.
** ] languages prefer ]s followed by ]s and vice versa, however this is not true for ]. At the begin of a word they typically do not use double ]s.

=== Grammatical differences among languages of the Finno-Ugric/Uralic Group===
*Articles
**] and ] have no ]s, Hungarian has both determinate (the=a,az) and indeterminate (a = egy) articles.
*Nouns
** ] uses the ] even if the sentence clearly indicates that plurality, Hungarian uses the plural inflection only if plurality were otherwise unclear. Example: five boys = öt fiú (five boy) in ]. This is expressed exactly in the same way in ]. ] goes one step ahead in this concept, and does not build plural at all, uses double words instead, e.g. I see hills = I see hill-hill.
** ]s are very different. ] uses 'k', ] -i, -t.
** ] ending order is: case ending-ownership ending. In ] ownership ending always precedes the place, art, or time defining ending, e.g. ''házának''.
** ] has and uses 6 levels of endings (ház, házak, házaké, házakéi, házakéié, házakéiétól /=house, houses, belongs to houses, belong to houses, belong to objects, that belong to houses, from objects, that belong to objects, that belong to houses/), ]/] have maximal 4 levels, they do not have two level ownership endings.
*Adjectives
**] conjugates the adjectives with the noun: ''nices girls'', ] does not: ''nice girls''.
*Verbs
**] uses ], ] does not.
** ] does not have a have verb in the sense of have in "I have a dog", ] has such a verb (nekem van = I have)
** ] uses two ]s, /vár- várok, várom, ... /= wait, wait for something/) that are also unknown in ]/].
** ] verbs can easily express, doing something repeatedly or only once for a short time. (csavar-csavargat-csavarint /= sqeeze, squeeze repeatedly, squeeze once, shortly/). ] misses this concept.
** ] uses ], (ír, megír /=writes, writes and finishes it/) that are unknown in ] or ].
*Phonetics
** ] lacks the ] ] a, (pronounced as a sound between a and o), e, í, ó, ú, õ,û, gy, ty, ny, z, zs, c (noted by ])
** ] contains 17 ]s, while ] contains none.
** ] uses sometimes lots of vocals following each other, like in the sentence: Kuuuurijate töööö jäääärel. This is not the case for ]
* ] features, unknown in ]
** Dual, which means, besides singular and plural there is also a ] form of nouns. This is completely unknown in ].
** Three-way distinction in the local ] – unknown in ]

===Other features===
*] – is present also in ] and ], irrelevant here

== Words==
The vocabularies of the Finno-Ugric or Uralic languages are very different. The differences suggest that the people who spoke these languages' ancestors (if any) never lived together, and also suggest, that the grammatic similarities are consequences of the ] cultural emission.

===Selected ]s===

The following are some ]s from across the Uralic family, which may serve to give an idea of how big are the differences in these languages. This table is from the ], and originally contained an error, it mixed up tenew (ín) with vene (ér) in Hungarian.

{| border="1" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="1"
|-
! English
! Finnish
! Estonian
! North Sami
! Mari
! Komi
! Khanty
! Hungarian
! Nenets
|-
| heart
| sydän, ''sydäm''-
| süda, ''südam''-
| '''čotta, čoddaga'''
|''' šüm-'''
| śələm
| səm
| szív
| sēw
|-
| lap
| syli
| süli
| salla, sala
| '''šəl'''
| syl
| jöl
| öl
| -
|-
| vein
| suoni
| soon
| suotna, suona
| šön
| sən
| jan
| '''ér'''
| '''tēn'''
|-
| go
| mennä, ''men''-
| minna, ''min''-
| mannat
| mija-
| mun-
| mən-
| menni, megy
| min-
|-
| fish
| kala
| kala
| guolli, guoli
| kol
| -
| kul
| hal
| xal'ä
|-
| hand
| käsi
| käsi
| '''giehta, gieđa'''
| '''kö'''
| '''ki'''
| '''köt'''
| kéz
| -
|-
| eye
| silmä
| silm
| '''čalbmi, čalmmi'''
|''' šinča'''
| śin
| sem
| szem
| sew
|-
| leg
| jalka
| jalg
| juolgi, juolggi
| jol
|
|
|'''láb'''
| laamp(a)
|-
| father
| isä
| isa
| áhčči, áhči
|
|
|
| '''apa'''
| '''niiśe'''
|-
| fire
| tuli
| tuli
| '''dolla'''
| tul
| ti̮l
|
| tűz
| tuu
|-
| tooth
| hammas, pii
|
|
| püj
| piń
| pöŋk, peŋk
| fog
|
|}

'''Bold''' illustrates words being quite different in form from the other in a line. The word "father", Finnish isä, could be a cognate of the Hungarian word ős (ancestor), but the correct Hungarian word for father is apa. The other problematic word pair is suoni-ér /=vein/. Duo to the completely different word form they are clearly no cognates, therefore is the word ér is bold.

This table also illustrates, that especially the so called ugric group has very big differences to Hungarian, even though the theory says, they are linguistically nearer to Hungarian, than others in the whole ]/] category.

===Finnish, Mordvin, Komi and Hungarian ]===
Here some of the ] in ], ], ] and ]. The ] words are '''bold''' for better orientation. The concept of basic words is explained in detail on the ] page

{| border="1" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0"
|-
! ]
! ]
! ]
! ]
! ]
! ]
! ]
! ]
! ]
! ]
|-
| '''father'''
| isä
| tetja
| baty
| apa, atya
| '''mother'''
| äiti
| ava
| mam
| anya
|-
| '''cloud'''
| pilvi
| pely
| kümör
| felhő
| '''sky'''
| taivas
| menely
| enezs
| ég
|-
| '''leg'''
| jalka, jalan
| pilyge
| kok
| láb
| '''fire'''
| tuli
| tol
| bi
| tûz
|-
| '''earth'''
| maa, multa
| moda
| musjar
| föld
| '''forest'''
| metsikkö, metsä
| virü
| vör
| erdõ
|-
| '''lake'''
| järvi, meri
| erüke
| tü
| tó
| '''sea'''
| meri
| inevegy
| szaridz
| tenger
|-
| '''man'''
| mies
| cora, alja
| ajlov
| férfi
| '''husband'''
| mies
| mirde
| verösz
| férj
|-
| '''wife'''
| vaimo
| ni
| götür
| feleség
| '''lie'''
| valhe
| kengelemsz
| kuilnü
| hazugság
|-
| '''person'''
| henkilö
| lomany
| mort
| személy
| '''grass'''
| ruoho
| tikse
| turun
| fű
|-
| '''knee'''
| polvi
| kumazsa
| püdzösz
| térd
| '''child'''
| lapsi
| ejkaks
| celjagy
| gyerek
|-
| '''tooth'''
| hammas
| pej
| piny
| fog
| '''nose'''
| nenä
| szudo
| nür
| orr
|-
| '''tongue'''
| kieli
| kely
| küv
| nyelv
| '''day'''
| päivä
| csi
| lun
| nap
|}

The Mordvin (Erzya) and Komi words are from the ]. They are there with cyrillic letters, in this table you can see their latin form following the Hungarian phonetic rules.

See also , , .

=== ]s of some languages discussed here===

207-word ]s for certain discussed languages can be compared and contrasted at the ] website:
, , , ,

===Phoneme set of some languages discussed here===
Here the phoneme set of some of the here discussed languages:
,
,
.

===Numbers===
Here are the numbers from 1 to 10 in Finnish, Estonian, North Sami, Erzya, Mansi, and Hungarian:

{| style="border-collapse:collapse"
|-
! style="border: 1px #000000 solid; text-align: left; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | Number
! style="border: 1px #000000 solid; text-align: left; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | Finnish
! style="border: 1px #000000 solid; text-align: left; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | Estonian
! style="border: 1px #000000 solid; text-align: left; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | North Sami
! style="border: 1px #000000 solid; text-align: left; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | Erzya
! style="border: 1px #000000 solid; text-align: left; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | Mansi
! style="border: 1px #000000 solid; text-align: left; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | Hungarian
|-
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | 1
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | yksi
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | üks
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | '''okta'''
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | vejke
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | '''akva'''
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | egy
|-
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | 2
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | kaksi
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | kaks
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | guokte
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | kavto
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | kityg
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | kettő
|-
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | 3
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | kolme
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | kolm
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | golbma
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | kolmo
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | '''hurum'''
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | '''három'''
|-
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | 4
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | neljä
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | neli
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | njeallje
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | nile
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | nila
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | '''négy'''
|-
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | 5
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | viisi
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | viis
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | vihtta
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | vete
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | '''at'''
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | '''öt'''
|-
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | 6
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | kuusi
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | kuus
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | '''guhtta'''
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | koto
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | hot
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | hat
|-
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | 7
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | seitsemän
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | seitse
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | čieža
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | sisem
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | sat
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | '''hét'''
|-
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | 8
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | kahdeksan
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | kaheksa
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | gávcci
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | kavkso
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | ńololov
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | '''nyolc'''
|-
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | 9
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | yhdeksän
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | üheksa
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | '''ovcci'''
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | '''vejkse'''
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | '''ontolov'''
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | '''kilenc'''
|-
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | 10
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | kymmenen
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | kümme
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | '''logi'''
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | kemeń
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | '''lov'''
| style="border: 1px #000000 solid; padding: 2px 10px 2px 2px;" | '''tíz'''
|}

'''Bold''' are the words, that are very unsimilar to the rest of the line.

==Text illustrating some languages==
'''Finnish''': Kaikki ihmiset syntyvät vapaina ja tasavertaisina arvoltaan ja oikeuksiltaan. Heille on annettu järki ja omatunto, ja heidän on toimittava toisiaan kohtaan veljeyden hengessä.

'''Estonian''': Kõik inimesed sünnivad vabadena ja võrdsetena oma väärikuselt ja õigustelt. Neile on antud mõistus ja südametunnistus ja nende suhtumist üksteisesse peab kandma vendluse vaim.

'''Sami''': Buot olbmot leat riegádan friddjan ja olmmošárvvu ja olmmošvuoigatvuoðaid dáfus dássásažžab, Sudhuude kea addib huervnu ha ianedivdym ha vyigjat gakget neabbydut gyunnuudeaset gyivdy vuekhakaš vuoinnain.

'''Hungarian''': Minden emberi lény szabadon születik és egyenlõ méltósága és joga van. Az emberek, ésszel és lelkiismerettel bírván, egymással szemben testvéri szellemben kell hogy viseltessenek.

'''English''': All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

] and ] are clearly very similar, their speakers understand each other in great parts. The others are quite far in appeareance and vocabulary from the above ones.

==Summary==

The criticizers of the ] and ] language groups say, that this language group is clearly ''underdetermined'' that is, this group has no features, that would clearly differentiate it from other language groups. The languages of these "groups" are clearly related by agglutination and the features, that are common among the Turanian (Sumerian) agglutinating languages. However, this artificial mini group have very few words common, and no common grammar except of the Sumerian type of agglutination, which is also characteristic for Turkish, Basque, Persian, Etruscan, Armenian and other languages, and therefore it is unlogical and counterproductive to classify them into this artificial, in reality by nothing justified mini groups.

==See also==
* ]
* ]

==References==
* Marcantonio, Angela (2004) 'What Is the Linguistic Evidence to Support the Uralic Theory or Theories?' In ''Linguistica Uralica'' 40, 1, pp 40-45.
* Marcantonio, Angela (2003) ''The Uralic Language Family: Facts, Myths and Statistics.''
* Marcantonio, Angela & Pirjo Nummenaho & Michela Salvagni (2001): 'The "Ugric-Turkic Battle": A Critical Review'. In ''Linguistica Uralica'' 37, 2, pp81-102.
* by Dr. László Marácz
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*
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Latest revision as of 17:44, 8 May 2023

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