Talk:Gaelic Athletic Association: Difference between revisions

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	== ~~British~~ ~~GAA and constitution~~ ==		== Recent changes ==

			Broadly content with most of the rework by Eamonn and Mabuska, although I have made some edits to improve it and restore some notable information that has been lost. The main concern, however, was the loss of the logic that linked the "notable rules" with the GAA's nationalism, so I have restructured to the status quo ante. For ease of reference, these are the sources that say the rules in question were motivated by nationalism:
	Did the ban on members of the British security services extend even to the ]? As far as I know most of the clubs were started by immigrants to places like London, Manchester and Leeds, especially since the 1950s. But it doesn't seem too much of a stretch that some of those would join the local police. - ] (]) 18:28, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
			*"From a sporting perspective the most important aspect of this was undoubtedly the formation of the Gaelic Athletics Association (GAA) in 1884. It brought together several strands of the nationalist movement which sought to promote Gaelic sport as a means of resisting British cultural influences. The GAA’s first charter included regulations which banned members from taking part in or watching games not deemed to be ethnically Irish or organised by the GAA and effectively barred members of the security forces from joining."()
	:It was an Official Guide rule so it would have applied to members worldwide, but I don't think it would have applied to local constabularies in Britain. Depends on how the rule was worded. --] (]) 19:18, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
			*"The GAA had succeeded in uniting its membership around a shared love of Gaelic games and a general acceptance of what was involved in being an Irish nationalist. In order to do so, as we shall see, it had enforced fairly exclusivist rules, including a ban on playing and watching foreign games and a rule that stipulated that members of the crown (British) security forces could not join the GAA. Although these restrictions clearly had the effect of driving away most of the already small numbers of Protestant supporters of Gaelic games, they may well have helped to forge a sense of national affiliation that was able to transcend power struggles within the association and serious political schism beyond." (Alan Bairner (2001) Sport, Nationalism and Globalization (p.78). Albany: State University of New York Press.)
	::The local police in Britain where not considered British security forces . While the RUC and the British army where . ] (]) 12:07, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
			] (]) 15:14, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

			:The rewrite as far as i was aware stated that some rules aided the alienation or exclusion of Protestants/unionists. We don't have to go into exact detail on the rules in that section when we can detail them in their own section. We could state which rules aided it in the section and leave the full detailing of them in their own section? ] <sup>]</sup> 18:54, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
	== Garrison games ==
			::Possibly, although what's wrong with the status quo ante? ] (]) 22:19, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
			:::Aesthetically its terrible. ] <sup>]</sup> 13:00, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
			::::Better now? ] (]) 22:15, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

			The entire sections on nationalism and unionist alienation etc appear to have been removed from this section without any discussion, leaving only the cross-community outreach sections. I have restored. ] (]) 08:56, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
	, the reference quoted says up to 1970 the reference backs up the claim for the usage of the words Garrion games not the entire sentence ] (]) 13:03, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
	:Can you please fix your grammar? It's very hard to understand what you're trying to say sometimes. --] (]) 18:34, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
	::In a nut shell the reference doesn't back up the claim that ''In particular, sports associated with British origin are particularly frowned upon ''] (]) 20:21, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
	:::I've added another reference which hopefully helps. ] (]) 21:30, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
	::::I don't see the relevance of the reference . It doesn't prove GAA usage of the term or that the GAA have this attitude as an organisation . Just that some people who may or may not be GAA members may have this attitude ] (]) 22:35, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
	:::::I've qualified it to refer to GAA followers, as per the source (which uses the word "lovers"). ] (]) 22:39, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
	::::::What is the relevance ? One minute we are talking about Rule 42 the next we are attempting to wedge in a comment about the fans? Also I'm a GAA and Rugby fan . I'm not frowning. The line are ''particularly frowned upon amongst GAA-followers'' if we decide it is relevant it needs to be word like ''are frowned upon amongst some GAA-followers ] (]) 23:35, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
	:::::::The source says "long derided by lovers of Gaelic sport as English-imposed "garrison games". I'm happy if you just want to use that verbatim. I'm not attached to "frowned upon". ] (]) 23:01, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
	:::::::::Yes but the source tars with the one brush. It's too general. I also still don't see the relevance to Rule 42 ] (]) 23:35, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
	::::::::::By all means, find another source that doesn't tar all with one brush. Is Rule 42 not the ban on garrison games? ] (]) 23:51, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
	:::::::::::Ok added that its a common name but removed the POV ] (]) 00:02, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
	::::::::::::Seems ok. ] (]) 00:10, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

	== ~~Page~~ ~~numbers~~ ~~please~~ ==		== External links modified ==

			Hello fellow Wikipedians,
	Can we please have page numbers added to the reference (Cronin) or the following claim:

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	...where the sport is played almost exclusively by members of the mainly ] nationalist community, stressing political aspirations that champion the cause of an Irish Republic and that excludes the broad Protestant unionist population.
			*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20110713060212/http://www.irishnews.com/appnews/597/5776/2008/11/11/602592_363117117465UlsterCou.html to http://www.irishnews.com/appnews/597/5776/2008/11/11/602592_363117117465UlsterCou.html
			*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20110713060205/http://www.irishnews.com/searchlog.asp?reason=denied_empty&script_name=/pageacc.asp&path_info=/pageacc.asp&tser1=ser&sid=600703 to http://www.irishnews.com/searchlog.asp?reason=denied_empty&script_name=/pageacc.asp&path_info=/pageacc.asp&tser1=ser&sid=600703

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	--] (]) 21:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
	::pp.25-26 ] (]) 22:42, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
	== Referencing claims of popularity ==

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	''Gaelic football and hurling are the most popular activities promoted by the organisation, and the most popular sports in the country in terms of attendances and second only to (Association) football in terms of participation {{Not specifically in source}} {{Not specifically in source}}.''
	<br />I've tagged the latter two as not being in the refs. given. The ESRI report is a primary source. No page reference is given, though it may be assumed the (incorrect) conclusion is drawn from table 3.4 on p22. The phrase used in the article misrepresents the source. Regarding the last ref. from the FAI (and based on an unspecified ESRI report), we again have an 'apples and oranges' situation, but in any case the assertion that the main sports promoted by the GAA, namely football and hurling are "second only" to Association football is not backed up. Sloppy referencing at best. Can the article wording be edited to reflect the references accurately, or more appropriate references applied, or the unverified claims removed please. ] (]) 10:44, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
	:Happily: you and I have both made clear in edit notes why the cited document does not support the text, and the IP contributor has simply rplied with something approaching paranoia. ] (]) 18:35, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
	::Re. the statement "Gaelic football and hurling are ... the most popular sports in the country in terms of attendances", the reference doesn't support this as far as I can see (I would also query whether the source is a reliable one). Under the "Achievements" section, the reference to back up the statement "The Gaelic games of hurling and football are also the most popular spectator sports in Ireland" refers only to the Republic of Ireland, therefore I propose that the sentence be amended to make this clear. I suspect they are the most popular attendance-wise in the whole island, but there is no reference to support this. (] (]) 20:52, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
	:::This source - seems to back the substantive claim, and also appears to be a ]. Wording would need to be slightly tweaked accordingly. ] (]) 00:58, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
	::::Looks like it is discussing only the Republic, notwithstanding the chapter title. ] (]) 12:41, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
	:::::I think that's a fair observation. Whats broadly under discussion in this source is legal issues particular to specific jurisdictions. ] (]) 12:55, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
	::::::Indeed, and the following references to "soccer" relate only to the South. ] (]) 13:01, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
	::::::: John Taylor of the UUP did say some ten years ago that the GAA is the "largest sports organisation in Northern Ireland" and therefore their funding from the British state of £300,000 was understandable. What sports organisation is more popular or supported than the GAA in the North? ] (]) 20:12, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

			Cheers.—]<small><sub style="margin-left:-14.9ex;color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS">]:Online</sub></small> 03:53, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
	== RM about ] ==

			== External links modified ==
	There is a rm ] ] (]) 20:44, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

			Hello fellow Wikipedians,
	== Numbers of volunteers etc. ==

			I have just modified 8 external links on ]. Please take a moment to review . If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit ] for additional information. I made the following changes:
	There appears to be a discrepancy and some dubious claims in this article regarding numbers. The lede states there are 1 million members out of an island population of 6.2 million. Then the section entitled "Achievements" states there are 800,000 members. Which number is accurate? Secondly, the infobox states there are 1 million volunteers but does not provide references. I would seriously doubt this number is accurate. Out of a population of 6.2 million on the island a guaranteed 1 million (Ulster Unionists) are not involved, we know that roughly 60,000 people are born in the Republic every year, and as I doubt under-5s could be counted as volunteers that leaves a further 300,000 discounted. There are also approximately 250,000 immigrants with little or no contact with the GAA. We also have to take into consideration that there are many who have no interest in the GAA, as well as those who do support the GAA but do not volunteer. If we take all the numbers into account we are looking at every 4th or 5th person in the entire country volunteering for the GAA. Basically I think the number in the infobox may represent the number of members, but the number of volunteers is likely far smaller. I, for example, am a member of a local GAA club, but in no way am I a volunteer, although I would like to be if I had the time. Is there any references for the claim that 1 million people are volunteers? --] (]) 16:44, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
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	Persons of unionist background involved with the GAA certainly represent the exception not the rule. There are some though despite what you make it sound like.

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	Anyway, I too doubt the GAA has a million actual volunteers. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 12:21, 12 July 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
	: I joined the GAA when I was in national school, about the age of 5 but at most 6. I'm probably still on the books even though I haven't played in 20 years. I'm OK with that as the GAA does a huge amount for my local community. I don't think this article gives enough space to the social and cultural aspects of the GAA. ] (]) 20:16, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
	: Article here says "Few organisations in Ireland can match the Gaelic Athletic Association for breadth, scope and scale. It has 6,000 officers at all levels and total membership in excess of half a million people." --] (]) 23:15, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
	::Seems that there are two parallel issues here: the actual number (inexcess of half a million/800,000/1 million have all been mentioned here), and the designation of people as "volunteers". A clear citation is required for one of the number claims, but an alternative phrase seems necessary to replace "volunteers": it is at best open to misinterpretation, and the purpose of an encyclopaedia is to inform, not to confuse. People do not gat paid to turn up and cheer for their parish team, but that does not make their status as supporters "volunteers". ] (]) 06:04, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
	:::I've taken a stab at this ] (]) 13:02, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

			Cheers.—] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">(])</span> 05:21, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
	== Cultural background ==

			== External links modified ==
	This isn't a big deal but why does GNevin think the title "Cultural background" makes no sense? It makes perfect sense to me. --] (]) 17:05, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
	:It makes no sense in that context. I would expect a section called Cultural background to discussion Scór etc not deal with controversial rules and sectarianism ] (])

			Hello fellow Wikipedians,
	== Official Guide ==

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	Today, the preamble of the GAA Official Guide contains the statement, "Since she has no control over all the national territory, Ireland’s claim to nationhood is impaired".<ref name="guide">{{cite web\|url=http://www.gaa.ie/files/official_guides/official_guide1_june10.pdf \|title=GAA Official Guide\|accessdate=2008-07-28}}</ref> The "basic aim" of the GAA is "the strengthening of the National Identity in a thirty-two county Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic Games and pastimes."<ref name="guide"/> Rule 17b limits membership to those "who subscribe to and undertake to further the aims and objects of the Gaelic Athletic Association, as stated in the Official Guide."

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	This is simply a statement of the rules in the Official Guide and not a criticism of them. ] says "Explicitly calling such statements "criticism" in the text of the article without any serious reason to do so (ie, if they are not negative criticism) can result in a violation of Misplaced Pages:Neutral point of view." ] should either revert the edit warring or provide a citation that actually says something critical about these rules from a notable source. --] (]) 21:46, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

			Cheers.—] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">(])</span> 16:23, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
	== Recent controversial incidents ==

			== External links modified ==
	Would ] please make up his mind about whether or not it is appropriate to include an exhaustive list of recent controversial incidents on a wiki page. On this page he thinks it is, on ] he thinks it is not. It's very hard to figure out the correct etiquette on wiki when established editors don't show a bit of consistency. --] (]) 22:13, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

			Hello fellow Wikipedians,
	:Consistency should be shown on both articles. We shouldn't favour one over the other.

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	:On the edits in general Eamonnca1; "Nationalism and claims of sectarianism" is hardly cumbersome in the slightest and appropriately describes the sections contents. We should strive for accurate headings, not ones that sound like a cover up or downplay. Like how is it anymore cumbersome than "The Gaelic Athletic Association in the twentieth century"? ] <sup>]</sup> 12:41, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
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	== Number of controversially named clubs/cups ==

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	Once again ] has chosen to edit war rather than use the talk page. This time he's trying to censor the fact that the number of GAA clubs and competitions with controversial names is 'relatively small.' In a previous version of this article he diligently trawled the web looking for every controversial or almost controversial name he could find and listed them in the article. It came to a grand total of about ten clubs. Hardly an impressive figure given the hundreds of GAA clubs throughout the world. That sounds 'relatively small' to me. If he continues with his refusal to communicate on this then I'll go ahead and revert his edit. --] (]) 20:19, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

			Cheers.—] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">(])</span> 01:56, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

			== External links modified ==

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			Cheers.—] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">(])</span> 18:26, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

			== Why draft articles? ==

			Why is ] a draft and not a published article?--] (]) 15:06, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
			:See also ], ] and more.--] (]) 20:49, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

			:It doesn't cite any references ] (]) 21:23, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

			== External links modified (January 2018) ==

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			Cheers.—] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">(])</span> 01:33, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

			== Proposed merge of GAA and Gaelic games ==
			{{closed\|Not merged (no rationale offered for merge)\|text=
			No explanation was placed at the time of what seems a fly-by tagging, nor a Talk page section opened (the link goes nowhere), but I can start what I believe will be a rather short discussion:
			* '''Strong oppose''' - the games and the GAA, which organises some but not all of them, are clearly quite distinct topics. I don't see any merit to this, even without starting on analogies, the richness of the GAA structure within Misplaced Pages, quite separate from articles on the disciplines, etc. If anything, the GAA main article could use more detail and development.] (]) 11:03, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
			* '''Strong oppose''' - For three reasons. Firstly, as appropriately noted by {{u\|SeoR}}, in a procedural sense, this "proposal" is flawed. In that a hatnote tag was added (of the type designed to invite editors to contribute to a merge proposal discussion) but then no proposal was made, discussion was opened, or rationale was offered. Secondly, by extension to the above, in the absence of a proposal, other editors are just "guessing" as to what the proposal/rationale might be. A debate with an empty chair is pointless. And, finally, as noted, I do not see how ] is met. (While there is some overlap, for example in the same way that there is overlap between the ] and the ] articles, that overlap is not significant to the extent that a merge is required. Nor is either excessively short. Nor do they duplicate each other. Nor is one impossible to read without context from the other). Anyway, per {{u\|SeoR}}, if the tagger does not actually contribute to this discussion PDQ, then I'd advocate simply closing it. And removing the tags. If the proposer feels strongly enough, then they can reopen. And actually take the 30 seconds to layout their proposal/rationale. Otherwise we're just talking to ourselves. And we can do that on our own time. ] (]) 17:13, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

			::{{resolved1}} Closing thread. It's been some time since the tag was added. No rationale has been forthcoming. ] (]) 22:52, 30 November 2019 (UTC)
			}}

			== Cumann Luthchleas Gael ==
	:May be relatively small but its still notable and should be included to show that there is such an element. ] <sup>]</sup> 22:35, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

			The very first sentence of the article has an incorrect Irish to English translation. "Cumann Luthchleas Gael" is an absolutely definite noun phrase, so it can't possibly mean the indefinite phrase "Gaelic Athletic Association", the English phrase has to be definite, so the translation should be "The Gaelic Athletic Association" or perhaps "The Gaelic Athletics Association" as the word "Lúthchleasach" (the adjective "Athletic" - the addition of "ach" to a noun forms an adjective based on the noun) is not the word used in the Irish, which is actually "Luthchleas" (a compound of lúth = power movement and cleas - feat, the compound having the same form in nominative singular and in genitive plural, the genitive plural being used in this phrase https://www.teanglann.ie/en/gram/l%c3%bathchleas) and is often treated as the noun "Athletics" although "Sport" might be as good a translation as "Athletics" in "Cumann Luthchleas Gael".
	::I agree, but there's nothing wrong with saying that it's a small number. --] (]) 00:04, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
			This can be fixed simply by making the initial "The" of the page bold text so that it is seen as part of the translation of the Irish name (the rest of the translation is already bold text).
	:::Except that it's not a small number, either in absolute or relative terms! There are dozens, if not hundreds, of GAA competitions, grounds and clubs named after Irish nationalists and Irish republicans. The article refers to "some", which is the most neutral word to use - it doesn't indicate large numbers or small numbers. ] (]) 09:32, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
			--] (]) 04:13, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
	::::Unless you have a source Eamonnca1 that its a small number then its synthesis and original research and should be avoided. We shouldn't add in statements without evidence. ] <sup>]</sup> 11:21, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
	:::::Agree Mabuska but on the same note we shouldn't add in clubs unless strong evidence says it's controversially named (Lynch's being on the only one the springs to mind). Are there really people who are offended by The Maguire Cup, O'Connells , Davitts or Parnells ? ] (]) 16:24, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
	::::::Who mentioned controversial? All the article says is that some GAA competitions, grounds and clubs are named after Irish nationalists and Irish republicans. ] (]) 22:58, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
	:::::::Gnevin wiped most of the text. I assume he didn't read my post above and I have reverted. Gnevin's rationale for removing text isn't valid. ] (]) 23:38, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
	::::::::I read your post I just don't agree with it.You need to prove the name has ''alienated the Protestant community '' ] (]) 23:54, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
	:::::::::I don't need to prove anything. The text didn't say that any of the named clubs "alienated the Protestant community", until YOU added this in! The text merely said that some clubs etc are named after nationalists and republicans. As this article comes under 1RR, you need to self-revert. ] (]) 00:17, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
	::::::::::It was always in the section I just moved it to a more relevant location. The article only comes under 1RR for you I think my edit is fine lets see what others think ] (]) 09:27, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
	:::::::::::No, you've deliberately moved text from the general section into a discrete section in order to change the meaning of that section and thereby justify your removal of text. The point about names alienating the Protestant community was a general one. There is a discrete section entitled "Naming of competitions, grounds and clubs and commemorations of nationalists", in which it is appropriate to provide some examples. Why do the reader a disservice by removing examples? ] (]) 09:55, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
	:::::::::::::To me the point about alienating the Protestant community is the entire point of the section. Otherwise why not have a section about clubs named after tea drinkers and car drivers. The entire reason this section is here is about the interaction between the GAA and the Protestant community ] (]) 10:00, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
	:::::::::::And 1RR applies to everyone on NI/Troubles-related articles, not just to me - you should self-revert and try to seek consensus. ] (]) 09:55, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 15:31, 14 February 2024

Gaelic Athletic Association was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
November 24, 2006	Peer review	Reviewed
February 8, 2008	Good article nominee	Not listed

Current status: Former good article nominee

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Recent changes

Broadly content with most of the rework by Eamonn and Mabuska, although I have made some edits to improve it and restore some notable information that has been lost. The main concern, however, was the loss of the logic that linked the "notable rules" with the GAA's nationalism, so I have restructured to the status quo ante. For ease of reference, these are the sources that say the rules in question were motivated by nationalism:

"From a sporting perspective the most important aspect of this was undoubtedly the formation of the Gaelic Athletics Association (GAA) in 1884. It brought together several strands of the nationalist movement which sought to promote Gaelic sport as a means of resisting British cultural influences. The GAA’s first charter included regulations which banned members from taking part in or watching games not deemed to be ethnically Irish or organised by the GAA and effectively barred members of the security forces from joining."(Sugden and Harvie, 1995)
"The GAA had succeeded in uniting its membership around a shared love of Gaelic games and a general acceptance of what was involved in being an Irish nationalist. In order to do so, as we shall see, it had enforced fairly exclusivist rules, including a ban on playing and watching foreign games and a rule that stipulated that members of the crown (British) security forces could not join the GAA. Although these restrictions clearly had the effect of driving away most of the already small numbers of Protestant supporters of Gaelic games, they may well have helped to forge a sense of national affiliation that was able to transcend power struggles within the association and serious political schism beyond." (Alan Bairner (2001) Sport, Nationalism and Globalization (p.78). Albany: State University of New York Press.)

Mooretwin (talk) 15:14, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

The rewrite as far as i was aware stated that some rules aided the alienation or exclusion of Protestants/unionists. We don't have to go into exact detail on the rules in that section when we can detail them in their own section. We could state which rules aided it in the section and leave the full detailing of them in their own section? Mabuska 18:54, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Possibly, although what's wrong with the status quo ante? Mooretwin (talk) 22:19, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Aesthetically its terrible. Mabuska 13:00, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Better now? Mooretwin (talk) 22:15, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

The entire sections on nationalism and unionist alienation etc appear to have been removed from this section without any discussion, leaving only the cross-community outreach sections. I have restored. Mooretwin (talk) 08:56, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

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Why draft articles?

Why is Draft:2017 Mayo Senior Football Championship a draft and not a published article?--Dthomsen8 (talk) 15:06, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

It doesn't cite any references Bogger (talk) 21:23, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

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Proposed merge of GAA and Gaelic games

The following discussion is closed and will soon be archived: Not merged (no rationale offered for merge)

No explanation was placed at the time of what seems a fly-by tagging, nor a Talk page section opened (the link goes nowhere), but I can start what I believe will be a rather short discussion:

Strong oppose - the games and the GAA, which organises some **but not all** of them, are clearly quite distinct topics. I don't see any merit to this, even without starting on analogies, the richness of the GAA structure within Misplaced Pages, quite separate from articles on the disciplines, etc. If anything, the GAA main article could use more detail and development.SeoR (talk) 11:03, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
Strong oppose - For three reasons. Firstly, as appropriately noted by SeoR, in a procedural sense, this "proposal" is flawed. In that a hatnote tag was added (of the type designed to invite editors to contribute to a merge proposal discussion) but then no proposal was made, discussion was opened, or rationale was offered. Secondly, by extension to the above, in the absence of a proposal, other editors are just "guessing" as to what the proposal/rationale might be. A debate with an empty chair is pointless. And, finally, as noted, I do not see how WP:MERGEREASON is met. (While there is some overlap, for example in the same way that there is overlap between the Association Football and the Football Association articles, that overlap is not significant to the extent that a merge is required. Nor is either excessively short. Nor do they duplicate each other. Nor is one impossible to read without context from the other). Anyway, per SeoR, if the tagger does not actually contribute to this discussion PDQ, then I'd advocate simply closing it. And removing the tags. If the proposer feels strongly enough, then they can reopen. And actually take the 30 seconds to layout their proposal/rationale. Otherwise we're just talking to ourselves. And we can do that on our own time. Guliolopez (talk) 17:13, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

Resolved Closing thread. It's been some time since the tag was added. No rationale has been forthcoming. Guliolopez (talk) 22:52, 30 November 2019 (UTC)

Cumann Luthchleas Gael

The very first sentence of the article has an incorrect Irish to English translation. "Cumann Luthchleas Gael" is an absolutely definite noun phrase, so it can't possibly mean the indefinite phrase "Gaelic Athletic Association", the English phrase has to be definite, so the translation should be "The Gaelic Athletic Association" or perhaps "The Gaelic Athletics Association" as the word "Lúthchleasach" (the adjective "Athletic" - the addition of "ach" to a noun forms an adjective based on the noun) is not the word used in the Irish, which is actually "Luthchleas" (a compound of lúth = power movement and cleas - feat, the compound having the same form in nominative singular and in genitive plural, the genitive plural being used in this phrase https://www.teanglann.ie/en/gram/l%c3%bathchleas) and is often treated as the noun "Athletics" although "Sport" might be as good a translation as "Athletics" in "Cumann Luthchleas Gael". This can be fixed simply by making the initial "The" of the page bold text so that it is seen as part of the translation of the Irish name (the rest of the translation is already bold text). --Michealt (talk) 04:13, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

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