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== Deleting sourced information ==


== Armenian editors ==
Hello. you removed the sourced information. What's wrong? --] (]) 18:26, 3 November 2010 (UTC)


Hey Marshall, I’m new to wiki and had some questions regarding our editors. Particularly, where are they? I was looking at some Arm related wiki articles and saw couple pages being edited in somewhat strange ways. Armenian translations of the place were being edited and pushed next to Az ones, and Az moved first. Now I know this isn’t that big of a deal, but I didn’t saw any reason for that kind of change and objected for example. With the help of an admin, consensus reached for the alphabetical order, and the dispute ended. But I see many other subtle changes getting unnoticed on our pages such as reorderings of translation/etc. I’m doing this on my free time so I can’t dedicate too much here sorry, but I thought that we would have legit full time wiki editors, don’t we? Our wikiProject seems rather inactive, why is that? Is there a specific reason? Thanks in advance! ] (]) 03:08, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
==overwelmed==
How do you do it? IPs and stuff, you are outnumbered like 10 to 1.
BTW, can you request a check with kheo17 and Garapapag. Garapapag had only two or three edits made 3 years ago..., and come recently to make the same reverts as kheo17. This more that shows that it is an alternative account of someone. ] (]) 15:18, 11 November 2010 (UTC)


:Well, I have been editing for almost five years now but patience comes in handy :) I would say that the edit wars are relatively useless as well, so try not to get entangled in them. But since you've already been reported for it, I would suggest you check out the helpful links that'll help you defend yourself. Also, thanks for pointing out the appearance of the new user; it does seem somewhat suspicious and I'll file a report soon.--] (]) 18:18, 11 November 2010 (UTC) :Hi. Well, I'm not as active as I once was, but I'm sure they're all over Wiki. Misplaced Pages has its own guidelines regarding the order and priority of place names and such, so it may not always be a simple matter of malign intent by editors. Wikiproject Armenia may seem to be a good forum to discuss current events and issues, but most everything here is ad hoc, or at least it should be. Agreeing to collaborate and improve an article is fine; but coordinating with others off-Wiki is generally frowned upon (and, though I'm not entirely sure, may actually even be in contravention to editing rules). Feel free to ping me if you experience any issues. Best, ] (]) 15:35, 29 March 2021 (UTC)


Thanks, take care. ] (]) 22:18, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
== New section ==


== Questionable villages in Armenia ==
Hello. Why did you Azeri name from ]? --] (]) 13:34, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
:Regarding the khanate of Erevan page: you can read its talk page for the full debate but to put it briefly, it's an anachronism. There was no Azerbaijani state in that part of the region until 1918 and none of the Turkic groups living there at the time would have referred to themselves as "Azerbaijani".--] (]) 18:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::Whatever you call those people they lived there, there language was Azeri and their nationality was Azerbaijani (Another example of usage of such "anachronism" is "genocide" which is used to describe the events happened before the word was created. Shouldn't we use it then?) --] (]) 08:23, 14 November 2010 (UTC)


Hi Marshall, I had a question regarding some villages in Armenia and the validity of their existence. So there was the village article which didn't show up in any maps, on top of that had very biased/unreliable source as evidence of its existence. It was nominated for deletion, and got removed at the end. I found similar villages presumably being in Armenia (which don't even have the Armenian translation/name next to them), you can have a read (4th paragraph). I tagged both the villages I managed to find (maybe there are more), and explained how biased and unreliable the source is in each one of them is. What do you propose to be done with those supposed villages? I'm new to wiki that's why I'm asking more experienced editors like you. Should they be nominated for deletion like , as they have the same bogus political view/concept source (the other one has a fabricated title as well, tho not the exact same source)? And if so, I myself don't know the correct way to do it and to be frank, don't have the free time as of now sorry. If it wouldn't be hard for you please look at the villages I linked in my message. I think they don't even exist (not showing in maps) and the edits were not done in good faith as evident by their "sources" and a push for Azeri translation on those pages done by a blocked sockmaster account , , (tho blocked not for editing those exact pages, still clearly the sockmaster had an agenda). Even if those villages were abandoned, we can't rely on the past existence of those villages solely based on their very alarming/propaganda sources, also given how the editor's additions' clearly not done in good faith as well. And if possible, how can we check if other Armenian articles/villages have the same source as evidence of their current/past existence? Thanks for your attention. I’m looking forward to your reply. ] (]) 22:24, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
:::You're painting the Muslims who lived in that region with a thick brushstroke. Many of them would later go on to call themselves Azerbaijanis; but there were also other ethnic Turkic groups living in the Khanate, many of whom would probably would object to being called Azerbaijani if they were here today. As for the inappropriate analogy regarding the Armenian Genocide - please go read the article itself and that of ], who specifically invented that word after learning about the genocide. This is perhaps one of the weakest arguments used by Armenian Genocide denialists today and I'm quite saddened that you bothered to even bring it up. --] (]) 19:08, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: But the fact is the fact: Erevan khanate was inhabited by Azeris that time (as well as by Kurds, Persians and other people). So all those people have right to mention their name for the khanate in the article. --] (]) 20:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)


:Hi. If you read Armenian, you may try to cross-reference some of these locales with the '' Hayastani ev harakits shrjanneri teghanunneri bararan'' (Dictionary of toponymy of Armenia and adjacent territories), a multivolume edited collection. It's not perfect, but it will probably be the best and most reliable way to verify that these places indeed exist. Best, ] (]) 22:34, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
== SPI ==


== Help with ]? ==
Hi. We need some more info on the ] you opened before we can continue the investigation. If you could go there and respond to the requests, that'd be great. Thanks. — ] <sup>]</sup> 19:59, 14 November 2010 (UTC)


I have received an email by the creator of the article, and was asked to review it, but I do not understand enough Armenian to do so.
:See my comment . ] (]) 07:08, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
::How do you find my evidence poiting that Kheo17 is Neftchi? ] (]) 18:59, 15 November 2010 (UTC) I read the article, which I thought was quite interesting. Maybe you could help? ] (]) 08:09, 12 May 2021 (UTC)


:::Quite convincing. I'm surprised I didn't see that earlier.--] (]) 19:04, 15 November 2010 (UTC) :I can take a glance at it, sure. Is there anything I should be looking for or should be scrutinizing more closely? ] (]) 20:53, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
::Mainly if what is stated in the article is also in the sources. As to me, some quotes are a bit too long for Misplaced Pages, (I'll include some invisible comments) and I'll probably copy edit that part. ] (]) 22:05, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
:::I have just noticed you are a reviewer, so if you feel the article is good to go, I will not copy edit anymore.] (]) 00:43, 13 May 2021 (UTC)


::::Still has some structural issues and problems with tone, but I think generally the sources are fine and reliable. Will let you know if I run into any major problems. ] (]) 14:07, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
== New section ==


== Armenians removed from ] article ==
Hello. you reverted my edit. Could you please explain the reason? What is the relation between some "Muslim tradition" invented by you and the described events? Why do you present Walker's and Hovannisian's opinions as facts but not as their opinion? Why do you insert primary sources instead of using secondary ones? --] (]) 20:28, 16 November 2010 (UTC)


Hi Marshall, as of feb 2020 a user by name of History of Iran suddenly removed all mention of Armenians from the ] article that was there for over 12 years. You can check the history revision and I gave the sources, since they said putting unsourced material. Here are the sources: David M. Lang (2008) . "Iran, Armenia and Georgia". In Ehsan Yarshater (ed.). The Cambridge History of Iran Volume 3: The Seleucid, Parthian and Sasanid Periods, Part 1. Cambridge University Press. p. 510. Please help out to add back Armenians in this article, I checked the international wikipedias and also youtube videos, almost all of them mention Armenians. ] (]) 16:53, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
:According to Islamic tradition, if a city resisted a siege, it gave itself up to a full-scale (typically 3 day-long) sack. The fact that the residents of Baku resisted the siege thus made it fully liable for pillaging (which is why it is included; other examples include the Fall of Constantinople in 1453 and or the city of Ani in 1064). This fact is relevant since multiple authors make mention of its importance and that this was the reason the Ottoman army did not formally enter the city until several days later.


==Disambiguation link notification for July 1==
:Walker and Hovannisian, based on my reading, both believe that about 10,000 Armenians died. They simply ''make mention'' of the fact that higher figures have also been brought up - rather than check the material out yourself, you've automatically misinterpreted the citations that have been used to back up assertions which are never made.


An automated process has detected that when you recently edited ], you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page ]<!-- (&nbsp;|&nbsp;)-->.
:As for the primary source: there is no rule on Misplaced Pages barring the use of such sources. The context is fully provided, as the reader understands what he is reading is a contemporary eyewitness account, and a significant one at that.--] (]) 21:56, 16 November 2010 (UTC)


(].) --] (]) 06:04, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
:: There is only one source (Walker) claiming relation between "the tradition" and the events. This is not enough to present his opinion as a fact. It must be rewritten. I requested quotation from Walker.


== Arapgir ==
::But you wrote "Estimates of the dead range from 10,000 to 30,000 Armenians." This is not equal to ''"They simply ''make mention'' of the fact that higher figures have also been brought up"''. Your wording misinterprets the source and merely violates ] and ] as most of the sources say about 10 000 but not about "from 10000 to 30000".


Instead of readding unsourced info (regardless of the content), you should find reliable references to back it up. --] (]) 09:47, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
:: Yes we can use primary sources but very carefully and you cannot write claims (especially such controversial) based only on primary sources. You must provide secondary neutral RS confirming what is written in primary source. --] (]) 09:23, 19 November 2010 (UTC)


] There is currently a discussion at ] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.<!--Template:Discussion notice--><!--Template:ANI-notice--> ] (]) 14:49, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
It looks like major portions of the book have been copy-pasted from Walker's book (which can be read ), so I've adjusted it accordingly, But while his statements do not directly reflect it, it looks likes that line has to be attributed to Hovannisian, who writes "Halil, Nuri, and Mursel withheld the entry of regular Ottoman units into Baku so that the age-old Islamic custom of looting and pillaging defiant cities might be observed." (''Armenia on the Road to Independence'', p. 227.)


==Warning==
I'm not misinterpreting anything: the sources support what is written. Even Walker says that "Estimates for the number of Armenian dead are around 20,000; the figure may easily have been higher. In this way the government of Azerbaijan installed itself in Baku, backed by Ottoman Turkish forces."
Look, MarshallBagramyan, if you are unable to explain yourself calmly (and at all), about reverting back unsourced content or anything, this probably isn't going to work out. Please do better. Thanks. ] 15:44, 27 September 2021 (UTC)


And the quotation is also taken from Walker's book, who in turn "Jacques Kayaloff, The Fall of Baku (Bergenfield, N.J., 1976), p. 12". See page 261 for the full text from the previous link I posted above. There's your secondary source--] (]) 02:08, 20 November 2010 (UTC) :We've been kowtowing to the denialists on Misplaced Pages for almost two decades now. If the regular cast of characters keep showing up and keep continuing to edit in bad faith, knowing full well that the information (even if momentarily unsourced) is reasonably accurate, then they ''should'' be bruquely shoved aside. How much do you indulge in continued removal of historic names and outright denial of past historic events? After 16 years of editing, you recognize that sort and don't tolerate any further. ] (]) 17:01, 27 September 2021 (UTC)


::MarshallBagramyan, if you're unable to keep this kind of aggression in check, then perhaps the ] topic area just isn't for you... ] 19:12, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
:Then shouldn't we use phrases like "According to", "As stated by"? --] (]) 16:13, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
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== Problems with an article ==


== ArbCom 2021 Elections voter message ==
Sorry to post this here. You've recently done work on ], and mentioned a "discredited historian" & "denial" - no problem with your edit or anything like that. I've seen this problem elsewhere in the article. Do you feel some sections lack a neutral pov, and if so, how can this article be improved. Thanks.] (]) 08:28, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
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For help in choosing the correct tag, or for any other questions, leave a message on ]. Thank you for your cooperation. --] (]) 23:06, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
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Out of your area, but would really appreciate your language skills and general regional nous. Please take a look. ] ] 03:02, 30 November 2010 (UTC)


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|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" |Thankyou for your varied assistance, troubleshooting and commitment to historical accuracy over the last few days. I am pleased to award you this barnstar.} ] ] 09:11, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
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== ] ==
:Thanks a lot buddy. Anytime :)--] (]) 02:24, 2 December 2010 (UTC)


Hi. With , you left the following sentence unfinished: {{tq|Ani stood on various trade routes and its many religious buildings, palaces, and sophisticated fortifications.}} Could you resolve this? ] (]) 13:17, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
== Review of actions ==
Would you be able to please review my past few actions with regard to ] and tell me what you think? I need some further views to help me decide how to proceed here. ] ] 20:28, 6 December 2010 (UTC)


==Disambiguation link notification for January 22==
==Reply==
{{talkback|User talk:Tuscumbia|New_section_3}} ] (]) 20:08, 15 December 2010 (UTC)


An automated process has detected that when you recently edited ], you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page ]<!-- (&nbsp;|&nbsp;)-->.
== Opinion ==
Hi, Mareşal:) What do you think of ], ], ] ? ] (]) 03:09, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
:I suggest you gather other users' opinions who know the subject better than I. I'm always available to appeal to, but talk to users who you think have the interests of the encyclopedia at heart, but also know the subject. Cheers ] ] 08:39, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
::Given that I actually made the deletions incorrectly out-of-process, and the community is still deciding ], I don't feel I can take any more action in this area at the moment. I suggest you approach ], who is already somewhat aware of this issue, as he has alrady commented on the WP:AN thread. Cheers ] ] 20:44, 21 December 2010 (UTC)


(].) --] (]) 05:58, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
== Armeniapedia ==


== Please either open up a section either on your or my page before randomly adding tags ==
Hi MarshallBaghramyan - there's a vote to delete the Armeniapedia.org article. Can you please add your thoughts? ] Thanks! --] (]) 21:45, 29 December 2010 (UTC)


You can't just willy nilly add tags. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 05:54, 1 March 2022 (UTC)</span> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
== Thanks ==


== Burning of Smyrna ==
:Thanks Marshall. No, I don't celebrate Novruz, although it has nothing to do with the New Year, at least in Azerbaijan. Happy New Year to you too! ] (]) 16:04, 3 January 2011 (UTC)


Hi, I see that you are deleting my edits. Among my edits are also sources that are used within the article. What is your logic behind it? <!-- Template:Unsigned --><span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 09:33, 29 March 2022 (UTC)</span> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
== New section ==


Hello. Please do not remove quotation requests like you did in ]. And why did you put npov tag in the article? --] (]) 09:35, 4 January 2011 (UTC) :Hi! Please see the talk where I explain the problem with your insertions. And don't edit war, alright?! Thanks! ] (]) 12:17, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
::When I checked from my phone, I saw that you wrote to me already, but I cannot see it from here. Are you referring to that talk? There you asked the Newspaper page. The reporter had interviews with the passengers of the ship that landed on the 2nd of October 1922. They stated that they burned their own property so that the Turks could not have it. The Newspaper told this as a patriotic act. The same newspaper is used in the same page. Why did you delete it when it states this? The same phenomenon can also be seen from the memoirs of the Greek Soldier Vasilis Diamantopoulos, who mentions that the Greek civilians of Aydın burned the town and the Greek soldiers could not prevent it. How can I add a PDFs here for you to see. I also have the Paul Greskovich's report in PDF. I just bought the pages of it from the Ottoman Archives. Who was the head of the Fire department. ] (]) 12:52, 30 March 2022 (UTC)


::This isn't the proper place to discuss these changes. I already explained my reasoning on the article's talk page. But, in brief, not all primary sources were created equal and much of the information that was emerging after the fire was necessarily accurate. Fortunately, through the benefit of hindsight and the work of historians, we now have a much better grasp of the event and can make out the reliable sources from the unreliable ones. The sources you keep trying make insert are either demonstrably false, which is unhelpful to readers, or add little value to the article. ] (]) 23:15, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
== Drmbon ==


== FAR notice - ] ==
Hi


I have nominated ] for a ]. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets ]. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are ].<!--Template:FARMessage--> ] (]) 08:25, 15 July 2022 (UTC)
If you find time, please join ]. I'd appreciate very much your opinion.


== "Shapurgala" and "List of castles and fortresses in Azerbaijan" ==
Best,--]''' <sup>(])</sup> 11:18, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
==Irreconcilables==
Good idea-- see the new article ] ] (]) 23:16, 6 January 2011 (UTC)


Sorry for bothering you, but I came across these two pages that need to be edited. I would edit these myself if I had the time and resources but at the moment I am unable to do so, so I want to share this with you since you are more experienced at editing pages;
== Historical Armenian settlements ==


The first page I came across is a ], what concerned me were the Nakhijevan, Artsakh, and Ganjabasar sections. Armenian fortresses within these lists are portrayed as "Caucasian Albanian" despite other sources and even their own wikipedia pages saying so.
Hi Marshall


The second page I came across was the one about the Shahbuz fortress, ]. Which is written like an anti-Armenian hit piece about why the castle wasn't Armenian and how Armenian "revisionists" are trying to cover up its "Azeri origins".
The issue you raised is very interesting to me (). Should you ever decide to pursue this, please let me know.


Again, I'm not a frequent wikipedia editor and I would edit these pages if I had time to, but I'm asking you if you could fix these pages for me if that is possible.
--]''' <sup>(])</sup> 08:55, 13 January 2011 (UTC)


Shnorhakalutyun
==Areni-1 winery==
- ] (]) 23:48, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
Hey Marshall. Just read your new article Areni-1 winery. Pretty good and informative! Great job! ] (]) 21:00, 17 January 2011 (UTC)


:Thanks. Much appreciated.--] (]) 22:23, 17 January 2011 (UTC) :Thanks for bringing this to my attention, and I agree the way that article was written was atrocious. Since I couldn't parse fact from fiction from it, I decided it best to shear the whole thing down to just its lead sentence. Maybe someone more competent will eventually be able to write an article about it. ] (]) 12:38, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
::Thank you, I'll try to see if I can find any information and sources regarding the fortresses page, as well as general information about Shahbuz fortress and try to add them in my spare time
::Much appreciated,
::] (]) 04:35, 16 October 2022 (UTC)


==Disambiguation link notification for October 16==
Don't you think it would be better to have all the various articles about the finds of the excavation in just the one article? ] (]) 21:06, 17 January 2011 (UTC)


An automated process has detected that when you recently edited ], you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page ]<!-- (&nbsp;|&nbsp;)-->.
:For the moment, I don't see that happening. The cave does really appear to be a treasure trove (for archaeologists at least :) ) but I think we'll just have to wait this one out and see what other goodies are excavated. Maybe then we can create an article called "Areni-1" and reserve sections for each unearthed artifact. But right now it looks like the world's oldest piece of leather footwear and the world's oldest surviving winery deserve their own separate articles.--] (]) 22:23, 17 January 2011 (UTC)


(].) --] (]) 06:00, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
==No problem!==
No problem, the ] article you've written is very good. To be honest, I don't know, I haven't read ]'s book about Stalin yet. I've read ''History of Modern Russia: From Tsarism to the Twenty-first Century'', another book written by Service if that helps. To be totally honest I don't know very much about the Stalin Era, I know much more about the history of the ''late'' Soviet Union, meaning the period from 1964 til it's demise. As seen by my work here on Misplaced Pages, I've worked extensively on such articles as ], ] and ]. ''Stalin: Court of the Red Tsar'' is a great book, and yes, I think you should keep it. While you're right that it is a "mish-mash" of historical events, it covers most, if not all, of Stalin's Soviet Union history. You could in theory reference all major events in Stalin's USSR with this book, so yes, keep it. Bye --] (]) 20:34, 19 January 2011 (UTC)


== The Armenia Barnstar for being a voice of reason ==
==DYK for Areni-1 winery==
{{tmbox
|style = notice
|small =
|image = ]
|text = On ], ''']''' was updated with a fact from the article ''''']''''', which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ''... that the ''']''' is believed to be the world's oldest surviving wine production facility?'' You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page <small>(], )</small> and add it to ] if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the ].
}} —] &#124; ] 12:03, 22 January 2011 (UTC)


{| style="border:1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
== Twilight Chill ==
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|rowspan="2" |
I too have observed and documented Twilight Chill's habit of subtly removing and suppressing information from articles, often without any discussion and most of the time through false and misleading edit summaries, mostly relating to Azerbaijan. Please monitor his activity. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 08:56, 23 January 2011 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
|style="font-size:x-large; padding:0 0.5em 0; vertical-align:middle; height:1.1em;" |'''The Armenia Barnstar'''

|-
== You are about to be topic-banned. ==
|style="vertical-align:middle; border-top:1px solid gray;" | Thanks for defending Movses Khorenatsi against the psychotic slanderers, like on the ] talk page. ] (]) 02:03, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

|}
But you may make a statement in ] first, if you wish. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 22:18, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
:"You are about to be topic-banned ... but you may make a statement"! Wikispeak for "I have the verdict pre-prepared so I ''will'' hang you, but I must follow the procedures so I invite you to attend the show trial"? ] (]) 23:02, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

==report==
Please see this report . ] (]) 20:00, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Arbitration enforcement restriction: Armenia and Azerbaijan ==

In application and enforcement of ], you are indefinitely restricted as follows: You may not make derogatory statements about sources or their authors on the sole basis of their nationality, place of birth or publication, ethnic group, religion or similar general characteristic that is unrelated to their ] in terms of Misplaced Pages policy, in the context of the area of conflict of the arbitration case ]. This restriction is to be enforced by blocks or other discretionary sanctions. It is not to be construed so as to encourage any derogatory comments that it does not explicitly prohibit. The reason for this restriction is explained in . <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 23:18, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

:I think all this is a given, but I will formulate my words in better fashion next time. Thanks.--] (]) 01:54, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

== Possibly unfree File:Karo Qakhedjian.JPG ==
A file that you uploaded or altered, ], has been listed at ] because its copyright status is unclear or disputed. If the file's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. You may find more information on the ]. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at ] if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. <!-- Template:Fdw-puf --> --] (]) 01:03, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

==Anastas Mikoyan==
Seeing that you wrote the article, I'm wondering, just wondering, why have you left so many things un-referenced when you could have referenced it a long-time ago? Even so, that's not why I'm here. I'm going to nominate the "Collective leadership" to GA Topic. The topic is to consist of Brezhnev (GA), Kosygin (GA), Podgorny (GA), Tikhonov (GA), Kirilenko (GA-nom), Mikoyan (GA) and the Suslov (Start; working on it) article, along with main article, "Collective leadership" (not even in existence yet). I'm wondering if i could include the Mikoyan article to the GA topic. I'm asking because I didn't write the article, YOU did. Anyhow, you could probably become a co-nominator of the topic if you want. --] (]) 13:56, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
::Thanks, It's appreciated it. :) I'll leave you a note when I nominate the articles for GA topic. It may take some times since I havn't created the main article yet. --] (]) 14:11, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

== re ==

I'll try some more range blocks, if it continues past tomorrow I'll bring it up on ANI. I'm wary to go through the effort of semiprotecting dozens of pages when he'll just move to others instead. --] (]) 04:33, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

== Duduk ==

Hello. What does it mean:"The Iranica article is referring to a Balaban (which is only referred to in Azerbaijan as a duduk - so that doesn't make it the same". Does it mean that duduk is not an Armenian instument as it is called "apricot horn" in Armenia? --] (]) 19:41, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
And please read the article carefully in Azerbaijan it is also called düdük. --] (]) 19:42, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

== Genocide ==

Hello MarshallBagramyan. Could you please see this , it's nonsense, how's Zangezur an Azeri Land? And also this sentence:
:Genocide became an integral part of the Azeri history starting from the partition of the Azeri lands with the treaties of Gulustan in 1813 and Turkmenchay in 1828. And if you time also see , if it's a Genocide, why Sumgayit Pogrom isn't Genocide?--] (]) 11:19, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
:Thanks!

== Tistsernavank ==

Hi,

Please have a look at ]. I wonder if you can help with preventing endless and useless dispute with well sourced argumentation.

Best, --]''' <sup>(])</sup> 14:28, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

== ] ==

Hi there,
I have just reverted your reversion of the edits to the ] article. I have been asked as a neutral party to have a look at the issue, and though I'm loath to protect the page to one version or the other I have asked all involved editors to refrain from simple reversions while we try and resolve this issue, and find a wording that is ], ] and hopefully meets somewhere in the middle. As someone involved in the article please could you respond to the questions I have left on the talk page. Best regards <sup>]]</sup> 16:30, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi,
Do you think Verman can behave the way he does and stay unsanctioned?
--]''' <sup>(])</sup> 05:48, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

:He has already been warned twice about his actions so hopefully we will desist from such activity. If, however, the edit warring and the unnecessary invocations of ethnic identities are brought up again, he can be reported, or an administrator can impose, sanctions against him. Regards, --] (]) 16:59, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Why did they change the wording on ]? It now says Caucasian Albanian and has been protected from editing whereas before it said Armenian.--] (]) 04:46, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

:NVM, I see that it was done by verman when the protection level was changed.--] (]) 04:53, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

== Learning Greek ==

Hello! I am sorry to say that you've come to the wrong person for this: as a Greek, the issue has never concerned me... Perhaps some of our resident linguists like ] might be able to help you, or you could place a request at ]. Again, sorry for not being able to help, and best of luck! Cheers, ] ] 10:02, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

:Well, Greek, whether ancient or modern, is definitely ''not'' an easy language to master. It has a complex but regular grammar and syntax (similar to German, because German is based on Ancient Greek in these areas), but has a vast vocabulary with many peculiarities. From what my foreign friends tell me, the worst thing is the declension system, where different roots can be employed for the same meaning. For instance, the verb "I eat", ''trōō'', is ''efaga'', "I ate", but ''etrōga'', "I was eating". I had a French teacher once who spoke some six or seven languages including Arabic, Russian and Hittite, and was trying to learn Greek; she found this thing absolutely maddening ;) To an extent, this is less the case in Ancient Greek (for many of these forms have been added over time from colloquialisms), but conversely, Modern Greek is considerably more simplified overall.

:As to your other question, for an educated modern Greek, reading a ] or medieval text is relatively straightforward: if not 100%, one can at any rate get the gist. For Classical texts, it is more difficult, and if it is in a dialect other than pure Attic, it may be unintelligible. Aside from grammar and syntax, which has changed to a degree, the biggest change is the vocabulary, as you'd expect over 2,500 years and a few hundred wars, migrations and invasions. Many of the words used in Antiquity are now archaic or entirely obsolete. Those who were still taught ] have an advantage here. ] ] 00:03, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

== Verman1 expanding his non-constructive activities ==

Hi, just spotted Vermin's activities on ]. Not sure if this is enough to report him. Whatsoever, this is just to make you aware to keep an eye on. Best, --]''' <sup>(])</sup> 14:00, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Hi, you may read Sandstain's response here: . Best, --]''' <sup>(])</sup> 04:37, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

I am not familiar with . Could you please pursue this issue there and I'll keep an eye to see if I can help somehow. Thanks. --]''' <sup>(])</sup> 17:04, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Thank you very much for taking the time and reporting Verman1. I just, wanted to ask whether may be considered yet another notification to him. Regards. --]''' <sup>(])</sup> 06:14, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

== ] ==

Can you please watch these articles , there is more vandalism. Its a Qajar dynasty not Azerbaijani, and the reliable sources were removed again. ] (]) 20:44, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

== Request for advice ==

Hi, Please have a look at edit. What do you think should be done about it? Best, --]''' <sup>(])</sup> 16:36, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

== Vandalism on ] ==

Please watch the ] article. There was an Azeri Turk blocked for 2 weeks, once he returned he changed the Orontids to "Persian dynasty" -> again! Please watch these articles, I even let Moosh88 know about it and he didnt pay attention either to the changes. It was like this for 8 hours! The guy changed the info it was like this for hours! Please report him. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 19:14, 13 April 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Same issue in ] ==
I provided the ancient sources of ] and ], both of them mention ] (Orontid) being an ally of ]. And as you know one of the most common Armenian names is from this dynasty, Yervand. You already know these things, but you can help out to mention to Kansas Bear. ] (]) 16:45, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Here is also the most recent change in this page in case you missed it ] (]) 00:34, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

== ] ==
The ] page is open now and as you see here again , they are removing the sources that mention the Qajar dynasty, and adding their political agenda of Azeri Turk dynasty. Can you take a look at this? ] (]) 00:34, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

== Hate to say I told you so..... ==
I guess what I said about those certain editors, removing information about Persian ancestry/origin and the cooresponding references, was correct. --] (]) 17:49, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

::This makes two reverts! --] (]) 18:37, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
::::And this one, is quite amusing. De-linking Iranian people???..... Wow. --] (]) 02:26, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

:::Hmm, problematic, yes. I think his editing activities are going to be curtailed if he doesn't shape up. Warnings don't seem to be getting through him.--] (]) 19:12, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

::::This being the '''THIRD''' revert.. Following this last revert, I would suggest you file a sockpuppet inquiry. --] (]) 04:21, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

::::So is Aryamahasattva, a sockpuppet of Phoenicians8? Numerous anon IPs have popped up to revert Orontid dynasty(far to many to begin to count or track).... --] (]) 23:14, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

You are wrong Kansas Bear, the info you have read you have not done enough research: "Darius I of Persia sent an "Armenian" named "Dâdarši" to suffocate the revolt <--- Dadarsi was Satrap of Bactria !! this Armenian was satrap there, this is not an Iranian, nor are the rest of them!" ] (]) 23:22, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

:You are wrong sockpuppet, Marshall and AgadaUrbanit came to a compromise on the talk page. Something you are incapable of using, apparently. Since '''IF''' you would look on the talk page you would find '''NUMEROUS''' university sources calling Orontid of Persian/Bactrian origin. So continue to ignore facts and go play in your edit-war... --] (]) 23:31, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

==Karabax/Arcax==
For some reason, my computer acted weird and my edit summary didn't show up. But basically, I meant to say that I thought that that image was better as it showed a more multi-faced view of the conflict. Thanks. --] (]) 17:37, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

:Yeah, but all those photos are found below in the article anyways so why repeat them? The issue was raised a few months ago but I don't think anyone it will do the article any sustaining damage if we replace it with something else. If you ask me, I would simply prefer a composition photo of the Ghazanchetsots Church and the mosque in Shushi, although I am unaware if such a carefully-taken photo like that exists. I tried to take such a shot when I was there a couple years ago but my camera kept playing games with me :| --] (]) 19:12, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

== Major POV and distortions in ] page ==

Please revert those edits, that is complete distortion of the sources they are providing! They are saying that, "Armenian replaced the former language Urartian in 5TH CENTURY AD!, before that they are putting it was territory of Urartu!, before 5th century "AD" <--AD ??? Please read the discussions and revert back to the stable original versions.

Here is the POV and major distortions:

''It is Classical Armenian that emerges in written records in the 5th century AD as the dominant language of what had used to be Urartian territory.''

] (]) 23:01, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

:I've responded on ]'s talk page, where the same message has been posted .--] (]) 00:43, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

== Khojaly Massacre in ] page?? ==

They just added a section Khojaly Massacre in the ] article. I dont think that belongs in the article? And if it is even factual information to begin with. ] (]) 19:38, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

==File permission problem with File:SAEStepanakert.jpg==
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== Stepanakert Airport ==

Hi Marshal, could you please comment on the new version proposed by me at ]. Thanks, --]''' <sup>(])</sup> 05:09, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

== ] article infobox ==

Can you revert the infobox recently changed by user Vahan. He has included a certain Turkish person, apparently of some Armenian decent, but is an unimportant figure for the infobox on Armenians. He also removed Hayk (he tries to give reasons for removing it in talk page), which we call ourselves by Hayk and Hay to our country and peoples. ] (]) 21:05, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

== ] article ==

Can you revert the last revision that removed the references and is regarding the Akaddian record Armani, which in that page they are removing the link to Name of Armenia.

Now on top of that, User Dougweller comes and removes further info from the page. The part that it even says "Further Speculation", he removes specifically the Egyptian record of "Ermenen" by Thutmose III of Egypt. (and you know why? he wants there to be a huge gap from the 2200 BC records to the 500 BC, when we have the 1400 BC in between these huge gaps of time, in order to not connect all of them as one and the same) It says speculation but he still removes it!? Please restore those records, there is even references and sources to that record. The previous user also removed referenced material regarding Armenians being native and not from Phrygia etc, that the IE colonies went westward from Armenia, not the other way around. ] (]) 21:07, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Can you please put this record back? ] (]) 20:19, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Mr. Bagramyan, can you please restore those records/info already? I also noticed in the ] page, that the user Vahan.Hovn had added other languages where it says in the infobox "Language(s)", where as if you check in for example the ] page, it only says Greek language. It always said only the Armenian language, now he has added, Russian, Persian, French, English, Arabic, Turkish etc, to that list. Can you please fix these things???? ] (]) 19:31, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

== Iran in Nagorno-Karabakh war==
According to recent edits, Iran is said to be a belligerent on the Azeri side. Both of these sources, aside from only being Armenian, are very recent (less than a week old). I am seriously doubting the validity of the claim. First of all, it is contradicted by earlier belief- including that further down on the page- that Iran actually favored Armenia in the conflict due to the threat of a stable, secular state run by Azeri Shias inspiring unrest or irridentism in their brethren in Iranian Azerbaijan, among other things (Azeri irridentism, Iranian dislike for secularist Azeri Shias, etc...). Furthermore, these sources say that "According to Ayatollah Ameli , Iran also provided logistical support in the delivery, if necessary to the front lines, of thousands of fighters from Afghanistan.", which at least I find odd, considering that the "Afghan fighters" in question are labeled as being the muhajideen that previously fought Russia and then later the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan (the Northern Alliance which Iran backed against them). And how cozy could hardline Shia Iran really have gotten with a Sunni fighting group (I could understand maybe if they were Hazaras, but as far as I know that isn't the case...)? I did not revert although I was tempted to... what are your thoughts on this? --] (]) 20:55, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

:Yeah, it does seem to come off as empty boasting, even though it's quite possible that Iran may have provided some sort of aid in one form or another to Azerbaijan during the war. If we don't see any independent press reports or see some official comments made by Iranian officials over the next few days, I myself would not oppose its removal. Let me know if anything turns up. Best,--] (]) 21:45, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

== FYI ==
Your comment on draft ] is welcome. ] (]) 06:38, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

== Stepanakert damage photo ==

We need sources, your comment is welcome . ] (]) 15:37, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

== Mechanisms against POV-pushing ==

Hi Marshal, I wonder what is the mechanism in Misplaced Pages to fight "sophisticated" POV-pushing. E.g. an editor launches RfC and all uninvolved editors give favor to one version, but a number of partisans give vote to another. How it can be assured that the discussion is not closed with the result "no consensus" simply because some partisans took active participation in the RfC? --]''' <sup>(])</sup> 15:33, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

== Sandstain ==

Hi Marshal, are you aware who is currently on the position of Sandstain, who appears no more engaged in AE? I guess Angel deserves some attention. --]''' <sup>(])</sup> 06:07, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

:I'm not sure if he/she has been formally warned but if you choose not to take it to arbitration or file a formal complaint you can try speaking to editor Golbez, who is very informed in this area, although I wouldn't worry about it too much, as Neftchi's edits seem to be far more troubling and disruptive for the moment.--] (]) 07:01, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

::Golbez seems to be tired of Armenia-Azerbaijan related issues on Misplaced Pages. I have that feeling from a couple of recent interactions with him. As per Neftchi, I agree that he tresspasses certain limits on regular basis. --]''' <sup>(])</sup> 08:19, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

== Neftchi ==

Just for your attention: , and (as it refers to him). --]''' <sup>(])</sup> 18:10, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

== Some sources that might be interesting ==

Hi Marshal, think these sources might be Interesting (in case you are not already aware of them):


{{Quotation|THE SHOPS are empty. The fruit and vegetable market is closed: agricultural produce from the villages does not reach the city because of a petrol shortage. Soviet troops stand at every street corner. Killings are frequent. Stepanakert, capital of the disputed territory of Nagorny Karabakh, is at the centre of a region on the brink of civil war.

Arguably, that war has already begun. Yervant Maroutian, an Armenian doctor in the region, warns of Nagorny Karabakh becoming 'the Lebanon of the Soviet Union'. For almost two months, the Armenians in Nagorny Karabakh - an enclave within the republic of Azerbaijan - have relied on helicopters arriving at Stepanakert Airport for emergency supplies and daily food.

As a response to Nagorny Karabakh's demand to leave Azerbaijan and become part of the Armenian republic, the Azeris imposed what was described as an economic blockade. Rail routes were cut. In addition, the Armenians, who form a majority within Nagorny Karabakh, claim that every road into the region has been rendered dangerous for Armenians. According to the mayor of Stepanakert, Maxim Mirzoyan: 'Since the blockade, the Azeris have resorted to attacking Armenian villages and the outskirts of the city regularly.'


== An FYI ==
Since January, Nagorny Karabakh has been under the jurisdiction of a special committee ruling from Moscow. Both sides, Armenians and Azeris, had their own reasons for ensuring that direct rule failed. Robert Ghazarian, a doctor at Stepanakert hospital, claims that the Soviet authorities do not care what happens to those in Nagorny Karabakh, and asks: 'Why doesn't Gorbachev send some troops to lift the blockade? We do not understand.'


If you have not been keeping up on current events, you may want to read . If you have any questions feel free to post on my talk page or email me. Stay safe! --] (]) 20:42, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
Armenians want Nagorny Karabakh to form part of Armenia. Azeris, however, are equally determined to prevent such a change. Some Armenians in Karabakh say they are in despair. 'We have had enough. Azerbaijan stifled us economically, culturally and in every possible way. We cannot go on,' said a woman queueing in front of the main bakery in Stepanakert. She had been standing there for more than five hours. 'The army truck came in and took tons of bread while we've been waiting here. Do you think it is fair?'


== ArbCom 2022 Elections voter message ==
Earlier this month, Soviet troops fired on crowds, killing one person and injuring five. According to the official account, the troops had been stoned, though Armenians denied this. By the end of the night, Stepanakert hospital had run out of bandages. The hospital, the region's largest, says it cannot cope with the growing number of injured.


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The helicopter in which I landed in Karabakh was carrying medical supplies and, more importantly, a surgeon from Erevan to treat a man who had been shot two days earlier by Azeris at his workplace in a village near Stepanakert. The surgeon arrived too late: his patient died the next day.
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The shortages are all-pervasive. When the parents of a Russian worker, shot by the Azeris, came to collect the body of their son, it proved almost impossible to find enough petrol to get the body to the airport.


If you wish to participate in the 2022 election, please review ] and submit your choices on the ''']'''. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{tlx|NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. <small>] (]) 00:23, 29 November 2022 (UTC)</small>
Nagorny Karabakh's Armenian population initially sought to take advantage of Mikhail Gorbachev's perestroika. In February last year, the regional parliament voted unanimously to become part of Soviet Armenia. 'We believed in Gorbachev then,' said Janna Kalsdian, an actress from Erevan, who has come back to her birthplace, Stepanakert. 'Now look what they are doing to us. They are standing aside, and watching the Azeris kill us one by one.' The Armenians say the Azeris are armed with machine-guns and other sophisticated weapons, a claim which the wounds of the injured appear to bear out.


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Armenians in Karabakh feel isolated, and the sense of distrust is everywhere. In the words of the commentator Armen Hovhannissian: 'In the West, people talk about human rights. At one time, the rights of one political prisoner in the Soviet Union were an important issue. But now a whole nation is on the brink of annihilation - and nobody is doing anything about it.'
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== ANI ==
For the inhabitants of the enclave, the situation of their brethren in the republic of Armenia is no better. Mr Hovhannissian continues: 'In Armenia there are more than a million homeless, both from the earthquake of December 1988 and refugees from Azerbaijan. The Azeri blockade hampers any type of work towards solving the problems. All this is creating political frustration and I cannot foresee where it will lead. Solutions must be found soon.'


Hi Marshall Bagramyan, please forgive me my joke of the
Nelly Danielian, a teacher, spoke the day after the shooting of demonstrators in Stepanakert: 'At school, my pupils were asking this morning: 'Is it war?' I had to say yes, because it is war. The Azeris want it, and what should we do?'}}
"misspelled" ANI notice (in Caps, should have also lower case). Just to explain a bit my revert. I double checked what could be used, and what removed as I also thought, the addition seemed very large. But all I noticed was that the addition was either new to the lead or the body and surprisingly in both places sourced. Then I moved of the admittedly large UNESCO text, some to a new UNESCO section in the body. Please check as well, but in my opinion it was a good addition of the new editor, at the wrong place, but for a first edit, wow, welcome. ] (]) 07:21, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
:Source: {{cite news|title=Besieged Armenians say they face civil war in a Soviet 'Lebanon': Ani King-Underwood reports from Stepanakert, a city rarely visited by foreigners, on the Armenian enclave's slide into civil war with the Azeris who would rule it|accessdate=24 May 2011|newspaper=The Independent (London)|date=October 24 1989|page=10}}


:Most of it was irrelevant. I went ahead and removed the material on the Seljuks again, much of which was supported by a rather shoddy source called "World Edu." As I wrote in the summary, please keep the information pertinent to the article topic and when possible refer to books published by university presses or by actual scholars, not anonymous websites. ] (]) 14:08, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
{{Quotation|Ten thousand Armenians have been forcibly deported from the disputed Azerbaijani enclave of Nagorno-Karabakh since April, an international human rights group said yesterday.
::Over 4500 bytes on UNESCO World Heritage irrelevant? I didn't see the Seljuk stuff, though and thanks for that. ] (]) 15:25, 11 December 2022 (UTC)


== Karabakh in 1919 ==
Residents of Armenian villages inside Azerbaijan were illegally detained, harassed and tortured, said the delegation, which visited the area before holding a news conference in Moscow yesterday.


Hi {{u|MarshallBagramyan}}, thanks for your work on making the ] article more concise. Since you have an interest in this part of history, I'm currently working on a ] about the August 1919 treaty which temporarily subjugated Karabakh to Azerbaijan – if you're interested in working on it together, I would really like that, it needs work on the Azerbaijani treaty violations, the Stepanakert massacre in February, and the March uprising. Best, – ] ''<sup><span style="font-size:75%">]</span></sup>'' 00:58, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
Members of the group said they were held at gunpoint and threatened by Azerbaijani special police. The delegation was led by Baroness Caroline Cox, deputy speaker of the British House of Lords.


:Hi! And thanks! I wish I could accept your offer about collaborating, but these days I'm afraid I'm a bit too busy to make too many substantive contributions. Feel free to ping me in case you'd like me to take a look at any works in progress. I'll continue to check in regularly. Best, ] (]) 18:55, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
They were first outside observers allowed to visit the remote region in the Caucasus mountains. Nagorno-Karabakh is part of Azerbaijan, but most of its residents are ethnic Armenians.
::No problem, thanks! – ] ''<sup><span style="font-size:75%">]</span></sup>'' 02:04, 9 March 2023 (UTC)


==Disambiguation link notification for May 31==
Nagorno-Karabakh is claimed by both Azerbaijan and Armenia, two of the 15 republics that make up the Soviet Union.


An automated process has detected that when you recently edited ], you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page ]<!-- (&nbsp;|&nbsp;)-->.
Residents of Nagorno-Karabakh want to become part of the Armenian republic, but Azerbaijani leaders refuse to let it go.


(].) --] (]) 06:41, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
The resulting conflict has led to ferocious ethnic violence over the last two years in the region, with Armenians and Azerbaijanis carrying out pogroms in Nagorno-Karabakh and elsewhere.


== ArbCom 2023 Elections voter message ==
"Forced deportations continue in the Armenian villages in and around Nagorno-Karabakh. . . . Evidence shows the deportations are brutally enforced. They involve loss of life, property and physical injury," the group's report said.


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The report also said Armenian paramilitary groups were to blame for armed attacks on local Azeribaijanis, although the violations were on a lesser scale.
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Asked about the scale of the deportations, members of the delegation put the figure at 10,000 since the end of April.


If you wish to participate in the 2023 election, please review ] and submit your choices on the ''']'''. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{tlx|NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. <small>] (]) 00:24, 28 November 2023 (UTC)</small>
Azerbaijan's president, Ayaz Mutalibov, denied Tuesday that Soviet and Azerbaijani troops were forcibly deporting Armenians and said those leaving were doing so of their own accord.


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The human rights delegation's report asked for an immediate end to deportations and attacks on civilians, as well as withdrawal of Azerbaijani special police from Nagorno-Karabakh.
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The special police - known as "black berets" - held the delegation at gunpoint and threatened it at the airport of the regional capital Stepanakert when members tried to prevent the arrest of five Armenians, delegation members said.


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The local "black berets," with no professional training and consisting of Azeribaijanis driven from Armenia, appeared to be out of control and responsible for most of the atrocities in the region, a member of the delegation said.


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The delegation was set up last May in Moscow at an international human rights conference held in memory of Soviet Nobel Prize winner Andrei Sakharov. }}
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:Source: {{cite news|title=ARMENIANS DEPORTED, TORTURED, SAY OBSERVERS|accessdate=24 May 2011|newspaper=Philadelphia Inquirer|date=July 18, 1991|author=Anatoly Verbin, Reuters|page=A04}}


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{{Quotation|THE WORST fighting in four years of conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan flared up in Nagorno-Karabakh yesterday, as Azeri rockets pounded the capital, Stepanakert, and Armenian forces seized the Azeri town of Khojaly.


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The Azerbaijani interior minister, Tofik Kerimov, told the independent news agency Interfax that 100 people were killed in the attack on Khojaly, an Azeri stronghold in the mainly Armenian enclave. Armenian sources said casualties were much lower because civilians had been evacuated.


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You must provide edit summaries with a valid reason for reverting other editors work. I do not want to hear ''any'' personal remarks from you such as "What would you know?". ''Ever''. If it repeats even one more time, I will consider it harassment. I am not going to respond in kind: "Revert pathetic attention seeking losers". I expect everyone to maintain a productive editing environment. ] (]) 06:26, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
Unquestionably, however, there was a huge escalation in the four-year-old conflict, forcing the Iranian foreign minister, Ali Akbar Velayati, to abandon a plan to visit Nagorno-Karabakh yesterday as part of his attempt to mediate.


:Perhaps you should actually underline what you find so problematic with a source instead of deleting it without nary a constructive comment. We've been dealing with genocide denialists on this site for almost 20 years now and to see the removal of any and all mention of Armenians, the Armenian Genocide, Armenian place names, etc., is tiring and pathetic. Neither I nor other editors will brook such willful attempts distort or alter clearly-established facts. ] (]) 16:47, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
Russian television showed terrifying scenes of heavy Grad rockets blasting Stepanakert, large parts of which have been laid waste by Azeri bombardment. Armenian forces have retaliated by firing on nearby Shusha, the only Azeri town in Nagorno-Karabakh still in the hands of Azerbaijan's troops.


== ] ==
Each side accuses the other of trying to drive out its population. They both allege former Soviet troops have been helping their opponents - a charge hotly denied by the local command, which says several soldiers have been killed despite their refusal to get involved.


Can you restore Armenian dynasty on the top first sentence? Since 2006 ever since this article was created, it’s always said Armenian dynasty. Add David Marshall Lang and M. Chahin sources. The user that goes by the name of “HistoryofIran” (who is actually an Azeri Turk based on his edits), is removing almost everything that was Armenian to “Iranian”, specially when it has to do with the Orontid dynasty. There are like 5 sources that state Orontids were an Armenian state or dynasty, that he put under the Iranian sources. Where it says “Some historians say Orontid was Iranian origin”, 5 sources stating Armenian, one of them says it 3 times by David Marshall Lang. He is also cherry picking Cyril Toumanoff, who also states that Orontids were an Armenian monarchy. Explain also that the Orontid dynasty was Armenian because linguists classified Armenian as an Iranian language, the Iranian mentioned doesn’t mean Persians necessarily. ] (]) 14:08, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
The attack on Khojaly, which the Azeri Popular Front said had been left "in ashes", appears to have been part of an Armenian counter-offensive to halt the bombardment on the capital. A concerted Armenian effort to take Shusha too can be expected in the next few days. Armenian forces also regained control of Stepanakert's airport yesterday.


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Last Sunday Azeri forces overran an arms depot belonging to former Soviet troops in Agdam, just outside Nagorno-Karabakh, and seized huge quantities of arms, including Grad rockets.


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Mr Velayati had talks with Azerbaijan's President Ayaz Mutalibov on Tuesday, and is due to see President Levon Ter-Petrosyan in the Armenian capital, Yerevan, today. But on the ground, his mediation efforts have been brushed aside as ruthlessly as were earlier attempts by Russia. Reports by Tehran Radio on Tuesday that both sides had agreed to a 24-hour ceasefire were greeted with incredulity by both Armenia and Azerbaijan. Iran said a second attempt at a ceasefire would be made today.


(].) --] (]) 19:00, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
Yesterday the French minister for humanitarian action, Bernard Kouchner, said France was trying to put together a peace plan for the region by involving the European Community, the CSCE and the United Nations, which Armenia and Azerbaijan are due formally to join next week.


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The plan, which France will present to the EC, "envisages a ceasefire followed by demilitarisation, and in the short term, access to the wounded and the establishment of humanitarian corridors," Mr Kouchner said.


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- Three soldiers died in a mutiny by hundreds of construction troops stationed at the former Soviet space centre of Baikonur, in Kazakhstan, Russian television reported yesterday. It said the mutiny broke out in protest against abysmal living conditions and ill treatment by officers. Several barracks were burned down, 17 cars were stolen and 35,000 roubles stolen from a paymaster's office.}}
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:Source:{{cite news|title=KARABAKH VIOLENCE GROWS|accessdate=24 May 2011|newspaper=The Guardian (London)|date=February 27, 1992|page=20}}
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User_talk:MarshallBagramyan/Archive 1 (27 December 2005 - 29 July 2006) User_talk:MarshallBagramyan/Archive 2 (29 August 2006 - 5 November 2006) User_talk:MarshallBagramyan/Archive 3 (8 November 2006 - 18 March 2007) User_talk:MarshallBagramyan/Archive 4 (22 March 2007 - 9 June 2007) User_talk:MarshallBagramyan/Archive 5 (11 June 2007 - 4 December 2007) User_talk:MarshallBagramyan/Archive 6 (21 January 2008 - 29 July 2009) User_talk:MarshallBagramyan/Archive 7 (29 July 2009 - 25 August 2010)
User_talk:MarshallBagramyan/Archive 8 (3 November 2010 - 23 May 2013) User talk:MarshallBagramyan/Archive 9 (23 May 2013 - 29 May 2021)


Armenian editors

Hey Marshall, I’m new to wiki and had some questions regarding our editors. Particularly, where are they? I was looking at some Arm related wiki articles and saw couple pages being edited in somewhat strange ways. Armenian translations of the place were being edited and pushed next to Az ones, and Az moved first. Now I know this isn’t that big of a deal, but I didn’t saw any reason for that kind of change and objected here for example. With the help of an admin, consensus reached for the alphabetical order, and the dispute ended. But I see many other subtle changes getting unnoticed on our pages such as reorderings of translation/etc. I’m doing this on my free time so I can’t dedicate too much here sorry, but I thought that we would have legit full time wiki editors, don’t we? Our wikiProject seems rather inactive, why is that? Is there a specific reason? Thanks in advance! ZaniGiovanni (talk) 03:08, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Hi. Well, I'm not as active as I once was, but I'm sure they're all over Wiki. Misplaced Pages has its own guidelines regarding the order and priority of place names and such, so it may not always be a simple matter of malign intent by editors. Wikiproject Armenia may seem to be a good forum to discuss current events and issues, but most everything here is ad hoc, or at least it should be. Agreeing to collaborate and improve an article is fine; but coordinating with others off-Wiki is generally frowned upon (and, though I'm not entirely sure, may actually even be in contravention to editing rules). Feel free to ping me if you experience any issues. Best, Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 15:35, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, take care. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 22:18, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Questionable villages in Armenia

Hi Marshall, I had a question regarding some villages in Armenia and the validity of their existence. So there was the village article Azizkend which didn't show up in any maps, on top of that had very biased/unreliable source as evidence of its existence. It was nominated for deletion, and got removed at the end. I found similar villages presumably being in Armenia (which don't even have the Armenian translation/name next to them), you can have a read here (4th paragraph). I tagged both the villages I managed to find (maybe there are more), and explained how biased and unreliable the source is in each one of them is. What do you propose to be done with those supposed villages? I'm new to wiki that's why I'm asking more experienced editors like you. Should they be nominated for deletion like Azizkend, as they have the same bogus political view/concept source (the other one has a fabricated title as well, tho not the exact same source)? And if so, I myself don't know the correct way to do it and to be frank, don't have the free time as of now sorry. If it wouldn't be hard for you please look at the villages I linked in my message. I think they don't even exist (not showing in maps) and the edits were not done in good faith as evident by their "sources" and a push for Azeri translation on those pages done by a blocked sockmaster account 1, 2, 3 (tho blocked not for editing those exact pages, still clearly the sockmaster had an agenda). Even if those villages were abandoned, we can't rely on the past existence of those villages solely based on their very alarming/propaganda sources, also given how the editor's additions' clearly not done in good faith as well. And if possible, how can we check if other Armenian articles/villages have the same source as evidence of their current/past existence? Thanks for your attention. I’m looking forward to your reply. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 22:24, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Hi. If you read Armenian, you may try to cross-reference some of these locales with the Hayastani ev harakits shrjanneri teghanunneri bararan (Dictionary of toponymy of Armenia and adjacent territories), a multivolume edited collection. It's not perfect, but it will probably be the best and most reliable way to verify that these places indeed exist. Best, Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 22:34, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

Help with Draft:Stepan_Zatikyan?

I have received an email by the creator of the article, and was asked to review it, but I do not understand enough Armenian to do so. I read the article, which I thought was quite interesting. Maybe you could help? Paradise Chronicle (talk) 08:09, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

I can take a glance at it, sure. Is there anything I should be looking for or should be scrutinizing more closely? Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 20:53, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
Mainly if what is stated in the article is also in the sources. As to me, some quotes are a bit too long for Misplaced Pages, (I'll include some invisible comments) and I'll probably copy edit that part. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 22:05, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
I have just noticed you are a reviewer, so if you feel the article is good to go, I will not copy edit anymore.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 00:43, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
Still has some structural issues and problems with tone, but I think generally the sources are fine and reliable. Will let you know if I run into any major problems. Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 14:07, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Armenians removed from Mount Nemrut article

Hi Marshall, as of feb 2020 a user by name of History of Iran suddenly removed all mention of Armenians from the Mount Nemrut article that was there for over 12 years. You can check the history revision and I gave the sources, since they said putting unsourced material. Here are the sources: David M. Lang (2008) . "Iran, Armenia and Georgia". In Ehsan Yarshater (ed.). The Cambridge History of Iran Volume 3: The Seleucid, Parthian and Sasanid Periods, Part 1. Cambridge University Press. p. 510. Please help out to add back Armenians in this article, I checked the international wikipedias and also youtube videos, almost all of them mention Armenians. 195.191.186.124 (talk) 16:53, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

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Arapgir

Instead of readding unsourced info (regardless of the content), you should find reliable references to back it up. --Semsûrî (talk) 09:47, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

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Warning

Look, MarshallBagramyan, if you are unable to explain yourself calmly (and at all), about reverting back unsourced content or anything, this probably isn't going to work out. Please do better. Thanks. El_C 15:44, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

We've been kowtowing to the denialists on Misplaced Pages for almost two decades now. If the regular cast of characters keep showing up and keep continuing to edit in bad faith, knowing full well that the information (even if momentarily unsourced) is reasonably accurate, then they should be bruquely shoved aside. How much do you indulge in continued removal of historic names and outright denial of past historic events? After 16 years of editing, you recognize that sort and don't tolerate any further. Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 17:01, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
MarshallBagramyan, if you're unable to keep this kind of aggression in check, then perhaps the WP:AA2 topic area just isn't for you... El_C 19:12, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

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Ani

Hi. With this edit, you left the following sentence unfinished: Ani stood on various trade routes and its many religious buildings, palaces, and sophisticated fortifications. Could you resolve this? Lennart97 (talk) 13:17, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

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Please either open up a section either on your or my page before randomly adding tags

You can't just willy nilly add tags. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Heyjudek (talk • contribs) 05:54, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

Burning of Smyrna

Hi, I see that you are deleting my edits. Among my edits are also sources that are used within the article. What is your logic behind it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Utku Öziz (talk • contribs) 09:33, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

Hi! Please see the talk where I explain the problem with your insertions. And don't edit war, alright?! Thanks! Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 12:17, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
When I checked from my phone, I saw that you wrote to me already, but I cannot see it from here. Are you referring to that talk? There you asked the Newspaper page. The reporter had interviews with the passengers of the ship that landed on the 2nd of October 1922. They stated that they burned their own property so that the Turks could not have it. The Newspaper told this as a patriotic act. The same newspaper is used in the same page. Why did you delete it when it states this? The same phenomenon can also be seen from the memoirs of the Greek Soldier Vasilis Diamantopoulos, who mentions that the Greek civilians of Aydın burned the town and the Greek soldiers could not prevent it. How can I add a PDFs here for you to see. I also have the Paul Greskovich's report in PDF. I just bought the pages of it from the Ottoman Archives. Who was the head of the Fire department. Utku Öziz (talk) 12:52, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
This isn't the proper place to discuss these changes. I already explained my reasoning on the article's talk page. But, in brief, not all primary sources were created equal and much of the information that was emerging after the fire was necessarily accurate. Fortunately, through the benefit of hindsight and the work of historians, we now have a much better grasp of the event and can make out the reliable sources from the unreliable ones. The sources you keep trying make insert are either demonstrably false, which is unhelpful to readers, or add little value to the article. Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 23:15, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

FAR notice - First Nagorno-Karabakh War

I have nominated First Nagorno-Karabakh War for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Cinderella157 (talk) 08:25, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

"Shapurgala" and "List of castles and fortresses in Azerbaijan"

Sorry for bothering you, but I came across these two pages that need to be edited. I would edit these myself if I had the time and resources but at the moment I am unable to do so, so I want to share this with you since you are more experienced at editing pages;

The first page I came across is a list of castles and fortresses in Azerbaijan, what concerned me were the Nakhijevan, Artsakh, and Ganjabasar sections. Armenian fortresses within these lists are portrayed as "Caucasian Albanian" despite other sources and even their own wikipedia pages saying so.

The second page I came across was the one about the Shahbuz fortress, Shapurgala. Which is written like an anti-Armenian hit piece about why the castle wasn't Armenian and how Armenian "revisionists" are trying to cover up its "Azeri origins".

Again, I'm not a frequent wikipedia editor and I would edit these pages if I had time to, but I'm asking you if you could fix these pages for me if that is possible.

Shnorhakalutyun - EpeBah (talk) 23:48, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing this to my attention, and I agree the way that article was written was atrocious. Since I couldn't parse fact from fiction from it, I decided it best to shear the whole thing down to just its lead sentence. Maybe someone more competent will eventually be able to write an article about it. Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 12:38, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
Thank you, I'll try to see if I can find any information and sources regarding the fortresses page, as well as general information about Shahbuz fortress and try to add them in my spare time
Much appreciated,
EpeBah (talk) 04:35, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

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The Armenia Barnstar for being a voice of reason

The Armenia Barnstar
Thanks for defending Movses Khorenatsi against the psychotic slanderers, like on the Sisak talk page. AlphabeticThing9 (talk) 02:03, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

An FYI

If you have not been keeping up on current events, you may want to read this. If you have any questions feel free to post on my talk page or email me. Stay safe! --Kansas Bear (talk) 20:42, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

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ANI

Hi Marshall Bagramyan, please forgive me my joke of the "misspelled" ANI notice (in Caps, should have also lower case). Just to explain a bit my revert. I double checked what could be used, and what removed as I also thought, the addition seemed very large. But all I noticed was that the addition was either new to the lead or the body and surprisingly in both places sourced. Then I moved of the admittedly large UNESCO text, some to a new UNESCO section in the body. Please check as well, but in my opinion it was a good addition of the new editor, at the wrong place, but for a first edit, wow, welcome. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 07:21, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Most of it was irrelevant. I went ahead and removed the material on the Seljuks again, much of which was supported by a rather shoddy source called "World Edu." As I wrote in the summary, please keep the information pertinent to the article topic and when possible refer to books published by university presses or by actual scholars, not anonymous websites. Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 14:08, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
Over 4500 bytes on UNESCO World Heritage irrelevant? I didn't see the Seljuk stuff, though and thanks for that. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 15:25, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

Karabakh in 1919

Hi MarshallBagramyan, thanks for your work on making the Shusha massacre article more concise. Since you have an interest in this part of history, I'm currently working on a new article about the August 1919 treaty which temporarily subjugated Karabakh to Azerbaijan – if you're interested in working on it together, I would really like that, it needs work on the Azerbaijani treaty violations, the Stepanakert massacre in February, and the March uprising. Best, – Olympian 00:58, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi! And thanks! I wish I could accept your offer about collaborating, but these days I'm afraid I'm a bit too busy to make too many substantive contributions. Feel free to ping me in case you'd like me to take a look at any works in progress. I'll continue to check in regularly. Best, Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 18:55, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
No problem, thanks! – Olympian 02:04, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

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New friend

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Civility

You must provide edit summaries with a valid reason for reverting other editors work. I do not want to hear any personal remarks from you such as "What would you know?". Ever. If it repeats even one more time, I will consider it harassment. I am not going to respond in kind: "Revert pathetic attention seeking losers". I expect everyone to maintain a productive editing environment. Cornsimpel (talk) 06:26, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Perhaps you should actually underline what you find so problematic with a source instead of deleting it without nary a constructive comment. We've been dealing with genocide denialists on this site for almost 20 years now and to see the removal of any and all mention of Armenians, the Armenian Genocide, Armenian place names, etc., is tiring and pathetic. Neither I nor other editors will brook such willful attempts distort or alter clearly-established facts. Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 16:47, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Orontid dynasty

Can you restore Armenian dynasty on the top first sentence? Since 2006 ever since this article was created, it’s always said Armenian dynasty. Add David Marshall Lang and M. Chahin sources. The user that goes by the name of “HistoryofIran” (who is actually an Azeri Turk based on his edits), is removing almost everything that was Armenian to “Iranian”, specially when it has to do with the Orontid dynasty. There are like 5 sources that state Orontids were an Armenian state or dynasty, that he put under the Iranian sources. Where it says “Some historians say Orontid was Iranian origin”, 5 sources stating Armenian, one of them says it 3 times by David Marshall Lang. He is also cherry picking Cyril Toumanoff, who also states that Orontids were an Armenian monarchy. Explain also that the Orontid dynasty was Armenian because linguists classified Armenian as an Iranian language, the Iranian mentioned doesn’t mean Persians necessarily. 2600:6C50:1F0:9730:7D8E:28D3:CE62:233D (talk) 14:08, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

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The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Misplaced Pages arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2024 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:08, 19 November 2024 (UTC)