Misplaced Pages

Talk:Natha Sampradaya: Difference between revisions

Article snapshot taken from Wikipedia with creative commons attribution-sharealike license. Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat. We can research this topic together.
Browse history interactively← Previous editContent deleted Content addedVisualWikitext
Revision as of 07:16, 17 March 2006 editRelax ull be ok (talk | contribs)1,198 editsm →Sources← Previous edit Latest revision as of 05:57, 11 June 2024 edit undoHemant Dabral (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users54,004 editsm Hemant Dabral moved page Talk:Nath to Talk:Natha Sampradaya: As per WP: CONSISTENT, in line with other articles. 
(131 intermediate revisions by 36 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
{{WikiProject banner shell|class=B|
This article is by a single devotee of an Englishmen turn Swami. However it reflect little of the reality of the modern Nath Sampradaya, particularly as the sect of said Englishmen was dissolved by him upon his demise.
{{WikiProject Hinduism|importance=Mid}}
{{WikiProject Nepal |importance=Low}}
}}


== Guru Siddha Nath ==
:Yes, and it says right at the top that it needs historical background. In point of fact, Shri Gurudev Mahendranath's formed a new householder Nath sect which did <b>not</b> dissolve at his death. Only the original Sannyas sect dissolved. Anyway, if you have constructive information to contribute to the article on the subject of the article then by all means do so. If you don't, then do something else. ;-)
Guru Siddha Nath belonged to the original Nath Sampradaya of Lord Dattatreya. The complete lineage of Gurus as well as their teachings can be found here: http://nathyogi.com/lineage-of-gurus.php
:-]


Guru Siddha Nath's disciple Nath Yogi can be contacted here: http://nathyogi.com/contact.php


Nath Yogi can also be contacted on Quora: https://www.quora.com/profile/Nath-Yogi. He writes answers related to spirituality, God and Guru-disciple tradition. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 06:49, 17 October 2017 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
== Request for expansion ==


More information about Guru Siddha Nath can be found here: http://www.gurusfeet.com/guru/guru-siddha-nath <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 06:52, 17 October 2017 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
The article needs historical context and descriptions of the sadhu Nath sects of India. Please help in adding the same. Thank you, --] 09:23, 14 January 2006 (UTC)


==Archives==
== Nath Sampradaya ==
*]
*]


== Assumptions about this article ==
I have added a section on the Nath Sampradaya, which elucidates the history of this tradition, but someone has erased it once again. Why the politics?


This is a general article about the Naths and the Nath Sampradaya. Details which are specific to one panth or one teacher should go into a separate article about that panth or teacher. Historical facts and beliefs and practices which are common to all panths and teachers are what belongs in this article. If you disagree, please discuss here. &mdash;] 15:41, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
:Please sign your messages! Don't know who this is from. Your addition was not erased because of politics. It was erased because it was taken wholesale from a copyrighted website. Unless you are the author or copyright holder of the original page, you cannot give permission to release it under the ]. It is standard policy on Misplaced Pages to check the web to see if a new addition was lifted from another website. If so, it is removed so that Misplaced Pages does not become liable for copyright violation. Please see the pertinent section of the ]. Also, if you ''are'' the original author, you will want to be aware of what releasing your work under the GFDL entails - it means that ''anyone'' can use and/or change your work for any purpose, even a commercial purpose, as long as they abide by the terms of the GFDL. Is that really what you want to do? If you are not the author or copyright holder, do you think they will appreciate your doing so? -] 20:33, 6 March 2006 (UTC)


== Requirements for listing a Nath guru on this page ==
== Removed paragraph ==


Clearly, we cannot list every Nath in existance. We can only list Nath Gurus. And to be sure that they are Gurus, we need to have the name of their initiator, their panth or sub-sect, and some reason to believe their received ] or succession. Self-proclaimed "Naths" need to provide some reason that they should be considered Nath Gurus. &mdash;] 02:27, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
:Today the Nath Siddhas of the Himalayas are called the Siddha Sangh, The Guardian Wall of Humanity, or The Great White Brotherhood. They guide the evolution of the human race quietly in the shadows, and are generally not available to the masses for personal guidance. The only currently known Nath Siddha that is widely available to sincere seekers of the East and West is known as Yogiraj Gurunath Siddhanath. He gives direct initiation into Shiv-Goraksha-Babaji's Kriya Yoga, and Hamsa Yoga, The Way of the White Swan.


== Verifiable citations required ==
This paragraph contains many POV statements not accepted by Naths in general. For example, I do not believe that the ''Great White Brotherhood'' refers to the Naths at all. I also do not agree that Yogiraj Gurunath Siddhanath is the only Nath siddha available to seekers in the East and West. These are the POV of members of his school and belong in the article ] which has been referenced under ''See also'' in this article. -] 03:00, 7 March 2006 (UTC)


Other anon. editors should be aware that all information added must be verifiable by a citation to a book, journal, or reliable website. Thanks for any properly cited additions to the article. <small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (]) 19:16, 6 February 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->
==Copyright violations==


== This article contains serious problems ==
Hi Adityanath,


It has been extensively edited by the devotees of a fake nath Guru - an Englishman by the name of Miles - who went to India in the 1950s and re-invented himself as a Hindu spiritual teacher. There is no evidence that he was ever initiated into any branch of the Nath Sampradaya, and this page is largely under the control of a small group of westerners who have very little or no contact with the Indian forms of the tradition. They have a good deal of academic understanding of certain of the historical realities of the tradition, but they regularly edit the page to fool people into thinking that their non-initiated non-nath lineage is equivalent to the Indian forms.
You have flagged the page on Yogiraj Gurunath as a possible copyright violation. That is a legitimate concern. I would like to ask you under what authority have you reprinted the text from your Gurudev Mahendranath, and what do you do to satisfy Misplaced Pages's standards to authenticate your copyright reprint rights?


At least one or two of the the people involved in the edit wars on this article as wikipedia admins are members of that sect, the "Interntional Nath Order."
Thanks, ] 08:17, 9 March 2006 (UTC)


I have removed the offending and highly controversial and unsubstantiated material - for example, a "guru" of the lineage being identified as such only by references to the works of his followers, or even his own works, leaving the article significantly more informative and objective. I believe that if you check the people who actually come along and re-insert the Mahendranath fake-nath materials into this article, you will discover several of them are INO members, who are attempting to propagate the cult of their particular un-official psuedo-nath fan club.
:Hi H.D.,


At the very least, these claims made are not because they cite self-published and self-referential sources. There is no objective evidence made for the status of the Mahendranath group as naths, other than references to the writing and claims of Mahendranath himself. Compare Da Free John's claims.
:Well, there are two different issues here. Small amounts of quoted text with an attribution and a reference are fair use. Say 2 or 3 paragraphs, maybe more if the paragraphs are short. This is also okay with our copyright agent so there is no problem. Quoted text does not become subject to the GFDL - it may be copied along with the article, of course, but not changed or used in another context except with permission or under fair use, etc.


It's important that the conflict of interest issues in this edit war are noted, and a reference to the history of the page will indicate the severity of the administrative abuses that have been required to maintain this page in its uninformative, misleading and broken condition.
:The WP policy is primarily against an article being directly copied from a copyrighted source, whether a book or a website. This is only okay if the copyright holder has given permission to release the material under the GFDL. Normally, WP expects that you will write any material you contribute as generally only the original author can give permision to release under GFDL. Certainly you may quote from copyrighted source with attribution of course, but if less than say, 2/3s of an article is original, it may get flagged as excessive use of copyrighted material.


Please inspect the page history to understand the issues further.
:Hope this helps...
--] (]) 02:33, 17 April 2008 (UTC)


:This doesn't appear to be an accurate assessment of the article and shows a misunderstanding of what verifiability means in the Misplaced Pages context. I note with humor the assertion that "wikipedia admins are members of that sect". And the Illuminati too, I am sure :) ] (]) 05:07, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
:—] 14:38, 9 March 2006 (UTC)


== Most recent version of Yogiraj Gurunath edit == == Notes on the removal of the Mahendranath material ==


Note that, in accordance with the policy that "gurus" on these pages should be listed on the basis of their own claims or those of their followers. Clearly this contravenes several Misplaced Pages policies. As for the issue of Misplaced Pages admins being members of the International Nath Order sect - NAME DELETED FOR PRIVACY REASONS is a wikipedia admin and has clearly had quite some interest in the status of this page over the years.
Aditya - Thank you for you most recent edit. This is much much closer to something acceptable by me - the only problems are that I have not verified some of your wording of my statement - for example I don't know the details of his initiation by Sundernath - he hasn't classified himself as a Dharam Nathi, but I would be comfortable saying that he is a Gorakhnathi. I also don't know whether Gurunath would agree with your comment about rarely giving a Nath initiation. Different sampradayas after all have different understanding of what that constitutes, as we've discussed. I would rather leave out information that I'm not sure about, since I don't want to mislead people. You are correct about his birth year. If you are open to working with me to finalize an edit that is acceptable to both of us fully, I think that would be the most productive thing, rather than another edit war. Out of respect for your gesture, I will not edit the page, but will instead offer an alternative here, that we can discuss:


Finally, as I noted before, ] should be listed as a Tibetan ] if our standard for placing an individual in a spiritual lineage's web page is their own writings.
Another more recent teacher is ] (b. 1944), ''who spent his early years amongst the Nath yogis (who he also refers to as the Hamsas - ''Supreme Swans'') of the Himalayas, in whose presence he was transformed. According to Gurunath, this transformation culminated with his deep and personal experience with Shiv-Goraksha-Babaji at the age of 23.'' Sometime later, he founded the Hamsa Yoga Sangh and is purported by his disciples and devotees to be a modern living master and Nath siddha. His book, entitled ''Wings to Freedom: Mystic Revelations from Babaji & the Himalayan Yogis'' was first published in 2004. He gives initiation throughout the world into what he calls Mahavatar Babaji's Shiva Shakti Kriya Yoga.


Think it through. I think we can all clearly see that Mahendranath's inclusion on this page is inappropriate, given that there is no reference to his status as a Nath, never mind a nath Guru with a Parampara, other than his own writings.
~Hamsacharya Dan


We need to be consistent here, not allow one sect to insist that their guru be included when there is simply no reference to his status as a Guru, or as a Nath, other than his own writings and those of his followers.
:Dan, you don't seem to get it. This article is about the ''Naths'', not about ''Yogiraj Gurunath Siddhanath''. There is no reason to put the information I've italicized above into this article. What goes here is names, dates, initiator, lineage, organization and publication. Life experiences, personal details, etc. should go in the article about the subject. Frankly, we don't need this paragraph or the one I added about Mahendranath to balance it ''at all''. People are smart enough to follow the ''see also'' links. In fact, if you're going to keep PROMOTING, I think I'd rather simply remove that section again. —] 13:09, 10 March 2006 (UTC)


I would note that this argument was deleted from the previous version of this talk page. I will continue to re-insert it as long as is necessary until it is answered. <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 23:30, 22 April 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
== Sources ==


== Protected ==
Please use reputable academic sources for this article. Might I suggest ''The Alchemical Body'' by David Gordon White. There are others. I'll add them as I recall them. ] 04:15, 17 March 2006 (UTC)


I've currently fully protected this page for three days, due to recent edit warring. Some users have called some changes vandalism; I don't know if I can go that far, but it's ''clearly'' disruptive, hence the page protection. I notice that {{user|83.82.115.34}} in particular is sinking in quite a few reverts and seems to hold a controversial position. Let's talk things over, hm? &ndash; <span style="font-family: Garamond">] (])</span> 00:33, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
:define reputable per wikipedia policy. please include references to wikipedia policy when requesting edit conformation. ] 04:51, 17 March 2006 (UTC)


Yes it is vandalism. Instead of disscussing the issues on this page, {{user|83.82.115.34}} just went and consistently deleated the parts the he/she disagreed with. By Misplaced Pages's standards, this is vandalism.] (]) 04:03, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Go read the policies yourself. I'm not your mother. You are still a clueless newbie and I have no patience to educate you. ] 04:53, 17 March 2006 (UTC)



:according to your history, you are newer than me. Does that mean you are sockpuppeting with this username? That kind of behavior can get you blocked permanently ]. Please refrain from personal attacks. ] 07:16, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
'''
== Baba Balak Nath, and Nandinatha Sampradaya ==

'''

Why is the Nandinath Sampradaya listed as a subsect of the Nath Sampradaya, and Baba Balak Nathji listed as a Nath Guru? From what I've read the Nandinatha Sampradaya is a subsect of the Saiva Siddhanta sect, and doesn't have any connections with the Nath Sampradaya founded by Gorakshanath and Matysendranath. Likewise, legends surrounding Baba Balak Nathji seem to indicate he was a rival of Guru Gorakshanath, and definitely not a follower of his sect.
] (]) 22:43, 3 December 2008 (UTC) BolenathBhakta

==Shree Ratna Nath Math==
Shree Ratna Nath Math In Dang, Nepal <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 14:10, 25 March 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Nath vs Natha ==

Is this a matter of Hindi/Prakrit vs Sanskrit? The article uses them interchangeably with no explanation, but one is called for.] (]) 22:45, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

== Nath vs Anath ==
No offenses.
I've been to Half India, traveled with Naths (those with holes in their Ears) and their Chelas (followers).

Some of them were Peer (head of the Nath Temple, The Boss). I have stayed in their Temples, river side mashan ghat (dead body Burning place), Samadhi, kooti (hut), Desert, jungle etc.

It's been decades, my family member worships them. And I've questions.

What I can't understand is:

# Saapera (Snake Charmer) looks similiar. Is Saapera a branch/sect/cult of Nath (?Sampradaya)?
# Most of Naths drinks, eats fish and meat, I've never seen their Sexual Acts but other Sadhus has told me that they do Sodomy with others using some kitchen "Daal" items, I've seen some temple worshiping (knee bending, thumb pressing, kissing their malas item things). I've many pictures and Videos of them. Now, what I can't understand is, Nath guys are Tantrik? Aghor/Aghori? If they practice Sex/ritual sex - I want to know facts/details.
# Do they Hypnotize? I heard but till today's date I've no facts. Rumor is that they use some herbs, Hash, opium, marijuana and other Hypnotic Drugs to Hypnotize/Trance "Gora Shadhu (White Foreigners)", rich man's wife, and others. (I've seen some "Gora man and Woman full in Trance - Living in India, forgetting everything. Picture and Video I have"
# Allmost all Nath smokes weeds, hash and licks opium. (To prove this I've pictures and Video of 12 years unique Nath Mela etc from different places.) I've never seen them Practice Yoga or Worshiping, teaching or preaching. If they own/run Temple, some priest guy comes hourly/daily to do Arati and Pooja (worshiping). Do they worship like other Brahman/Priests?
# When I questioned about them about Alcohol misuse They advocated me about Banaras/Varanasi Temple and Alcohol must Drink rituals. Is it true that in Delhi (near New Delhi) there is a temple of Goddess Kaali where people gives alcohol to priests. And priests have to Drink that Alcohol. Is it true?
# Some humored. The Guy who runs Temple is Nath. And the Guy who has no Temple and Follower is Anath. Is it true?
# Nath guys Politically active? Son of Rajiv Gandhi and other parties financing them? Rumor?

The things written here in Misplaced Pages is good. But, like a Show Room.
Where can I get factual information?

'''No offenses please. I just want to know the truth. I'm not religious but I truly respect them.''' <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 18:14, 14 June 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

Very funny. Perhaps you should be contributing to the uncyclopedia version of this entry ... <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 03:05, 22 October 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Sources template ==

A quick look through the sources indicates that this article needs a very serious scrubbing. Random, self-published websites, many of which seem to be first-person accounts of one person's spiritual journey, definitely do not meet ]. I was about to remove one of them, but when I saw just how many questionable sources there are, I stopped. I'd have to go through and check each one, but it looks like easily half or more of these are not reliable sources; that implies that they need to be removed, and the information the supposedly verify should probably also be removed. The task is too large for me to start now, but I may come back to this at some point. ] (]) 23:00, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
:I did, however, start to remove some of the unsourced claims, particularly the non-neutral ones. ] (]) 23:05, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

== External links modified ==

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to {{plural:1|one external link|1 external links}} on ]. Please take a moment to review . If necessary, add {{tlx|cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{tlx|nobots|deny{{=}}InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20160127101611/http://www.nisargadatta.net/Navnath_Sampradaya.html to http://nisargadatta.net/Navnath_Sampradaya.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the ''checked'' parameter below to '''true''' to let others know.

{{sourcecheck|checked=false}}

Cheers.—]<small><sub style="margin-left:-14.9ex;color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS">]:Online</sub></small> 22:24, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

== External links modification ==
Hello Friends,
I want to add an external link of a living Nath, Swami Saurabhnath, into this article, that link is https://www.feelnonduality.com If anyone has any objection please message me on my talk page or mention your objection here.
Thank you. ] <!--Template:Undated--><small class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added 07:10, 29 September 2016 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:It might be ] and ]. ] -] 10:36, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

::<small>Copied from ]</small>Hi Joshua,

::Why do you think the link I want to add is a spam, the person I mentioned in my link Swami Saurabhnath has nothing to do with spamming. What kind of proofs should I give you to prove my point? <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 11:13, 29 September 2016 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> <small>End of copied part</small>
:::It may be relevant if you can add info on Swami Madhavnath, Swami Saurabhnath guru's guru; Google gives on him, so he may have some relevance. Otherwise, it looks like using Misplaced Pages for advertising Swami Saurabhnath. ] -] 14:56, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
:::: Thank you for your welcome message and information about using wikipedia, your suggestion is really nice that I should add info on Swami Madhavnath, but Nath tradition is about living masters, Masters who have left their bodies are adored but living masters are the people who can help to speed up the spiritual growth more than the dead masters. Though in my opinion google hits cannot be the criteria for understanding the relevance of a spiritual person since these type of people usually stay away from society but have you seen how many hits google gives to Swami Saurabhnath? he himself on his own without any help from any organisation or religious leader tries to do his work without asking for anything in return, hope you understand what I am saying, advertisement is not an issue for any spiritual person because such a person likes to live in solitude. I thought Swami Saurabhnath's information is useful for this article so I am trying to put that here, but if you people don't like then I will not put his info here, but I will request don't apply your criteria of popularity which you apply to other topics of wikipedia on this topic of spirituality because if you want wikipedia to be relevant to the reality and not just follower of google then look at reality directly otherwise by the time a spiritual person becomes popular in your terms he or she has already left the world then it becomes useless to talk about that person. Thank you :-) ] (]) 15:46, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
:::::{{yo|Makarandadeshpande}} "Swami Saurabhnath" gives only 68 hits; that means that he's hardly relevant for Misplaced Pages. Other criteria may apply outside Misplaced Pages, but this here ''is'' Misplaced Pages, so Wiki-criteria apply here. See also ]. ] -] 18:01, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
:::::: {{yo|Joshua Jonathan}} I presume that by word "hit" you mean total number of results that google gives after entering any search term, I have tried with google chrome and mozila firefox, in both browsers google showed more than 600 results for Swami Saurabhnath, even in your local search engine (google.nl) it showed 695 results for Swami Saurabhnath. So just to make things clear and understand rightly I am asking you this question that have I understood the word "hit" correctly and minimum how many hits are necessary to get mentioned on Misplaced Pages? Thanks for your time and efforts you make to keep Misplaced Pages relevant :-) by the way the link you mentioned in see also is not working, can you give me the exact link? ] (]) 04:52, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
{{od}} typo, sorry. Regarding Google: the browser is not relevant for the number of hits. But the country may be, since Google adapts their results, depending on the user. My point is: there are probably hundreds, if not thousands of swamis and gurus who claim to be Naths; so, what makes this one especially relevant? Well, if Swami Madhavnath has some relevance, than that makes Swami Saurabhnath also somewhat more relevant. On the other hand, Google Books gives zero hits on Swami Saurabhnath, so that brings us back to ]. Did you read that page? I think you will understand. Best regards, ] -] 05:02, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

:First I want to disclose that I know Swami Saurabhnath personally, I hope this does not disqualify me from inserting his link here on wikipedia, because if I want to say something about someone then I must know him in the beginning, I cannot say anything about the person whom I do not know. Yes I understand your concerns about this world class forum and keeping it free from useless stuff. I have read that page also. As I told you before, Swami Saurabhnath works independently so his books are not published by any reputed publisher until now, basic reason behind this is publishers have commercial interests in their publishing and no one is ready to bait on an author who is not well-known. But this does not mean he has not written any books, he has four English spiritual books and one Marathi (his mother tongue) spiritual book in poetic form which is in my opinion after many years become possible because no one else in my area has written that type of book for many years, possibly centuries. His all books are available to download free on internet on major sites such as Barnes & Noble, Apple I-Books, Nook, Amazon etc. (On Amazon those books are not free because Amazon does not allow free books so there is a little charge). I talked with him about the google books, he told me that he was not able to publish on google because Google Play Books is not accepting new authors currently. If you search on Google Books then you will not find any book, you might find a link to smashwords website which is an independent distributor but you will not find links to B&N, I-books and Amazon on Google Books, because they are rivals. But on Google search you will find his books easily to download.
:Now your second point, you said there are hundreds of swamis and Gurus who claim to belong to Nath tradition. Yes it is possible and one cannot say that all of them are lying, it is possible that many of them really belong to Nath tradition because as time passes more and more people will keep coming into this tradition. What is so special about Swami Saurabhnath? The special thing is he does not claim to be a Guru nor he does any show off, the title Swami is misunderstood because of the misuse of many people, Swami means a person who is having spiritual interest. I don't want to talk about other Swamis because I don't know them but as far as Swami Saurabhnath is concerned his ordinariness is his specialty. If you come across him on the road and you don't know him then you will not even notice that he belongs to Nath or some other spiritual tradition, he lives with such ordinary way. He is not involved into any organization, any cult in particular or any type of politics. He works in purely spiritual manner with complete devotion, he is available to interact directly without any middle man. If you want you can contact him directly on the email id mentioned on his website, his complete postal address is also available there. I think he is the real Nath as Nath tradition expects one to be. I understand that this criteria is applicable outside wikipedia but when you ask what is so special about Swami Saurabhnath then I have to tell criteria which is outside wikipedia.
:I think I have responded reasonably to all your objections on inserting the link, if you still have doubts about the credibility of Swami Saurabhnath, then contact him directly if you have spiritual understanding and judge him yourself. I hope you will not object anymore on inserting link, if you still have objections then I am ready to wait, because neither me nor Swami Saurabhnath has any hurry to get a link on wikipedia, we want love from readers, not their objections and doubts. ] (]) 10:56, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
{{yo| Iṣṭa Devatā}} Before entering the link of Swami Saurabhnath, I had clearly stated the reasons here, why do you think it is a LINKSPAM, have you read this discussion before removing the link? ] (]) 02:12, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

{{yo|Joshua Jonathan}} What do you want to suggest? ] (]) 15:22, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

:That you read ], and stop this. ] -] 17:28, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

::: Ok, I stop ] (]) <!--Template:Undated--><small class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added 17:48, 2 October 2016 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
::::Thanks. ] -] 19:29, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

== External links modified ==

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on ]. Please take a moment to review ]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit ] for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050309072148/http://www.mahendranath.org/faq.mhtml to http://www.mahendranath.org/faq.mhtml

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

{{sourcecheck|checked=false|needhelp=}}

Cheers.—] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">(])</span> 22:50, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

== External links modified (January 2018) ==

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on ]. Please take a moment to review ]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit ] for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101128094531/http://www.mahendranath.org/~kapil/tantrikguru2.html to http://www.mahendranath.org/%7Ekapil/tantrikguru2.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130624173930/http://www.abideinself.com/inchegeri-sampraday.php to http://www.abideinself.com/inchegeri-sampraday.php

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

{{sourcecheck|checked=false|needhelp=}}

Cheers.—] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">(])</span> 00:10, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 05:57, 11 June 2024

This article is rated B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject iconHinduism Mid‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Hinduism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Hinduism on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HinduismWikipedia:WikiProject HinduismTemplate:WikiProject HinduismHinduism
MidThis article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconNepal Low‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Nepal, which aims to improve Misplaced Pages's coverage of Nepal-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page and add your name to the member's list.NepalWikipedia:WikiProject NepalTemplate:WikiProject NepalNepal
LowThis article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Guru Siddha Nath

Guru Siddha Nath belonged to the original Nath Sampradaya of Lord Dattatreya. The complete lineage of Gurus as well as their teachings can be found here: http://nathyogi.com/lineage-of-gurus.php

Guru Siddha Nath's disciple Nath Yogi can be contacted here: http://nathyogi.com/contact.php

Nath Yogi can also be contacted on Quora: https://www.quora.com/profile/Nath-Yogi. He writes answers related to spirituality, God and Guru-disciple tradition. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2405:204:C188:823C:B842:72BF:48AD:255E (talk) 06:49, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

More information about Guru Siddha Nath can be found here: http://www.gurusfeet.com/guru/guru-siddha-nath — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2405:204:C188:823C:B842:72BF:48AD:255E (talk) 06:52, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Archives

Assumptions about this article

This is a general article about the Naths and the Nath Sampradaya. Details which are specific to one panth or one teacher should go into a separate article about that panth or teacher. Historical facts and beliefs and practices which are common to all panths and teachers are what belongs in this article. If you disagree, please discuss here. —Adityanath 15:41, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Requirements for listing a Nath guru on this page

Clearly, we cannot list every Nath in existance. We can only list Nath Gurus. And to be sure that they are Gurus, we need to have the name of their initiator, their panth or sub-sect, and some reason to believe their received parampara or succession. Self-proclaimed "Naths" need to provide some reason that they should be considered Nath Gurus. —Hanuman Das 02:27, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Verifiable citations required

Other anon. editors should be aware that all information added must be verifiable by a citation to a book, journal, or reliable website. Thanks for any properly cited additions to the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.41.150.146 (talk) 19:16, 6 February 2007 (UTC).

This article contains serious problems

It has been extensively edited by the devotees of a fake nath Guru - an Englishman by the name of Miles - who went to India in the 1950s and re-invented himself as a Hindu spiritual teacher. There is no evidence that he was ever initiated into any branch of the Nath Sampradaya, and this page is largely under the control of a small group of westerners who have very little or no contact with the Indian forms of the tradition. They have a good deal of academic understanding of certain of the historical realities of the tradition, but they regularly edit the page to fool people into thinking that their non-initiated non-nath lineage is equivalent to the Indian forms.

At least one or two of the the people involved in the edit wars on this article as wikipedia admins are members of that sect, the "Interntional Nath Order."

I have removed the offending and highly controversial and unsubstantiated material - for example, a "guru" of the lineage being identified as such only by references to the works of his followers, or even his own works, leaving the article significantly more informative and objective. I believe that if you check the people who actually come along and re-insert the Mahendranath fake-nath materials into this article, you will discover several of them are INO members, who are attempting to propagate the cult of their particular un-official psuedo-nath fan club.

At the very least, these claims made are not verifiable because they cite self-published and self-referential sources. There is no objective evidence made for the status of the Mahendranath group as naths, other than references to the writing and claims of Mahendranath himself. Compare Da Free John's claims.

It's important that the conflict of interest issues in this edit war are noted, and a reference to the history of the page will indicate the severity of the administrative abuses that have been required to maintain this page in its uninformative, misleading and broken condition.

Please inspect the page history to understand the issues further. --83.82.115.34 (talk) 02:33, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

This doesn't appear to be an accurate assessment of the article and shows a misunderstanding of what verifiability means in the Misplaced Pages context. I note with humor the assertion that "wikipedia admins are members of that sect". And the Illuminati too, I am sure :) Sivanath (talk) 05:07, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Notes on the removal of the Mahendranath material

Note that, in accordance with the policy that "gurus" on these pages should be listed on the basis of their own claims or those of their followers. Clearly this contravenes several Misplaced Pages policies. As for the issue of Misplaced Pages admins being members of the International Nath Order sect - NAME DELETED FOR PRIVACY REASONS is a wikipedia admin and has clearly had quite some interest in the status of this page over the years.

Finally, as I noted before, Lobsang Rampa should be listed as a Tibetan Lama if our standard for placing an individual in a spiritual lineage's web page is their own writings.

Think it through. I think we can all clearly see that Mahendranath's inclusion on this page is inappropriate, given that there is no reference to his status as a Nath, never mind a nath Guru with a Parampara, other than his own writings.

We need to be consistent here, not allow one sect to insist that their guru be included when there is simply no reference to his status as a Guru, or as a Nath, other than his own writings and those of his followers.

I would note that this argument was deleted from the previous version of this talk page. I will continue to re-insert it as long as is necessary until it is answered. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.82.115.34 (talk) 23:30, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Protected

I've currently fully protected this page for three days, due to recent edit warring. Some users have called some changes vandalism; I don't know if I can go that far, but it's clearly disruptive, hence the page protection. I notice that 83.82.115.34 (talk · contribs) in particular is sinking in quite a few reverts and seems to hold a controversial position. Let's talk things over, hm? – Luna Santin (talk) 00:33, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes it is vandalism. Instead of disscussing the issues on this page, 83.82.115.34 (talk · contribs) just went and consistently deleated the parts the he/she disagreed with. By Misplaced Pages's standards, this is vandalism.Mjr162006 (talk) 04:03, 23 April 2008 (UTC)


Baba Balak Nath, and Nandinatha Sampradaya

Why is the Nandinath Sampradaya listed as a subsect of the Nath Sampradaya, and Baba Balak Nathji listed as a Nath Guru? From what I've read the Nandinatha Sampradaya is a subsect of the Saiva Siddhanta sect, and doesn't have any connections with the Nath Sampradaya founded by Gorakshanath and Matysendranath. Likewise, legends surrounding Baba Balak Nathji seem to indicate he was a rival of Guru Gorakshanath, and definitely not a follower of his sect. 216.36.162.26 (talk) 22:43, 3 December 2008 (UTC) BolenathBhakta

Shree Ratna Nath Math

Shree Ratna Nath Math In Dang, Nepal —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.195.42.21 (talk) 14:10, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Nath vs Natha

Is this a matter of Hindi/Prakrit vs Sanskrit? The article uses them interchangeably with no explanation, but one is called for.Sylvain1972 (talk) 22:45, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Nath vs Anath

No offenses. I've been to Half India, traveled with Naths (those with holes in their Ears) and their Chelas (followers).

Some of them were Peer (head of the Nath Temple, The Boss). I have stayed in their Temples, river side mashan ghat (dead body Burning place), Samadhi, kooti (hut), Desert, jungle etc.

It's been decades, my family member worships them. And I've questions.

What I can't understand is:

  1. Saapera (Snake Charmer) looks similiar. Is Saapera a branch/sect/cult of Nath (?Sampradaya)?
  2. Most of Naths drinks, eats fish and meat, I've never seen their Sexual Acts but other Sadhus has told me that they do Sodomy with others using some kitchen "Daal" items, I've seen some temple worshiping (knee bending, thumb pressing, kissing their malas item things). I've many pictures and Videos of them. Now, what I can't understand is, Nath guys are Tantrik? Aghor/Aghori? If they practice Sex/ritual sex - I want to know facts/details.
  3. Do they Hypnotize? I heard but till today's date I've no facts. Rumor is that they use some herbs, Hash, opium, marijuana and other Hypnotic Drugs to Hypnotize/Trance "Gora Shadhu (White Foreigners)", rich man's wife, and others. (I've seen some "Gora man and Woman full in Trance - Living in India, forgetting everything. Picture and Video I have"
  4. Allmost all Nath smokes weeds, hash and licks opium. (To prove this I've pictures and Video of 12 years unique Nath Mela etc from different places.) I've never seen them Practice Yoga or Worshiping, teaching or preaching. If they own/run Temple, some priest guy comes hourly/daily to do Arati and Pooja (worshiping). Do they worship like other Brahman/Priests?
  5. When I questioned about them about Alcohol misuse They advocated me about Banaras/Varanasi Temple and Alcohol must Drink rituals. Is it true that in Delhi (near New Delhi) there is a temple of Goddess Kaali where people gives alcohol to priests. And priests have to Drink that Alcohol. Is it true?
  6. Some humored. The Guy who runs Temple is Nath. And the Guy who has no Temple and Follower is Anath. Is it true?
  7. Nath guys Politically active? Son of Rajiv Gandhi and other parties financing them? Rumor?

The things written here in Misplaced Pages is good. But, like a Show Room. Where can I get factual information?

No offenses please. I just want to know the truth. I'm not religious but I truly respect them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 113.199.216.192 (talk) 18:14, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Very funny. Perhaps you should be contributing to the uncyclopedia version of this entry ... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.195.12.4 (talk) 03:05, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Sources template

A quick look through the sources indicates that this article needs a very serious scrubbing. Random, self-published websites, many of which seem to be first-person accounts of one person's spiritual journey, definitely do not meet WP:RS. I was about to remove one of them, but when I saw just how many questionable sources there are, I stopped. I'd have to go through and check each one, but it looks like easily half or more of these are not reliable sources; that implies that they need to be removed, and the information the supposedly verify should probably also be removed. The task is too large for me to start now, but I may come back to this at some point. Qwyrxian (talk) 23:00, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

I did, however, start to remove some of the unsourced claims, particularly the non-neutral ones. Qwyrxian (talk) 23:05, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Nath. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—Talk to my owner:Online 22:24, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modification

Hello Friends, I want to add an external link of a living Nath, Swami Saurabhnath, into this article, that link is https://www.feelnonduality.com If anyone has any objection please message me on my talk page or mention your objection here. Thank you. Makaranda Deshpande —Preceding undated comment added 07:10, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

It might be WP:UNDUE and WP:SPAM. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 10:36, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
Copied from User talk:Joshua Jonathan#Related your comment on my inclusion of a linkHi Joshua,
Why do you think the link I want to add is a spam, the person I mentioned in my link Swami Saurabhnath has nothing to do with spamming. What kind of proofs should I give you to prove my point? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Makarandadeshpande (talk • contribs) 11:13, 29 September 2016 (UTC) End of copied part
It may be relevant if you can add info on Swami Madhavnath, Swami Saurabhnath guru's guru; Google gives 1,180 hits on him, so he may have some relevance. Otherwise, it looks like using Misplaced Pages for advertising Swami Saurabhnath. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 14:56, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
Thank you for your welcome message and information about using wikipedia, your suggestion is really nice that I should add info on Swami Madhavnath, but Nath tradition is about living masters, Masters who have left their bodies are adored but living masters are the people who can help to speed up the spiritual growth more than the dead masters. Though in my opinion google hits cannot be the criteria for understanding the relevance of a spiritual person since these type of people usually stay away from society but have you seen how many hits google gives to Swami Saurabhnath? he himself on his own without any help from any organisation or religious leader tries to do his work without asking for anything in return, hope you understand what I am saying, advertisement is not an issue for any spiritual person because such a person likes to live in solitude. I thought Swami Saurabhnath's information is useful for this article so I am trying to put that here, but if you people don't like then I will not put his info here, but I will request don't apply your criteria of popularity which you apply to other topics of wikipedia on this topic of spirituality because if you want wikipedia to be relevant to the reality and not just follower of google then look at reality directly otherwise by the time a spiritual person becomes popular in your terms he or she has already left the world then it becomes useless to talk about that person. Thank you :-) Makarandadeshpande (talk) 15:46, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
@Makarandadeshpande: "Swami Saurabhnath" gives only 68 hits; that means that he's hardly relevant for Misplaced Pages. Other criteria may apply outside Misplaced Pages, but this here is Misplaced Pages, so Wiki-criteria apply here. See also WP:ALSO. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 18:01, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
@Joshua Jonathan: I presume that by word "hit" you mean total number of results that google gives after entering any search term, I have tried with google chrome and mozila firefox, in both browsers google showed more than 600 results for Swami Saurabhnath, even in your local search engine (google.nl) it showed 695 results for Swami Saurabhnath. So just to make things clear and understand rightly I am asking you this question that have I understood the word "hit" correctly and minimum how many hits are necessary to get mentioned on Misplaced Pages? Thanks for your time and efforts you make to keep Misplaced Pages relevant :-) by the way the link you mentioned in see also is not working, can you give me the exact link? Makarandadeshpande (talk) 04:52, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

typo, sorry. Regarding Google: the browser is not relevant for the number of hits. But the country may be, since Google adapts their results, depending on the user. My point is: there are probably hundreds, if not thousands of swamis and gurus who claim to be Naths; so, what makes this one especially relevant? Well, if Swami Madhavnath has some relevance, than that makes Swami Saurabhnath also somewhat more relevant. On the other hand, Google Books gives zero hits on Swami Saurabhnath, so that brings us back to WP:LINKSPAM. Did you read that page? I think you will understand. Best regards, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 05:02, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

First I want to disclose that I know Swami Saurabhnath personally, I hope this does not disqualify me from inserting his link here on wikipedia, because if I want to say something about someone then I must know him in the beginning, I cannot say anything about the person whom I do not know. Yes I understand your concerns about this world class forum and keeping it free from useless stuff. I have read that page also. As I told you before, Swami Saurabhnath works independently so his books are not published by any reputed publisher until now, basic reason behind this is publishers have commercial interests in their publishing and no one is ready to bait on an author who is not well-known. But this does not mean he has not written any books, he has four English spiritual books and one Marathi (his mother tongue) spiritual book in poetic form which is in my opinion after many years become possible because no one else in my area has written that type of book for many years, possibly centuries. His all books are available to download free on internet on major sites such as Barnes & Noble, Apple I-Books, Nook, Amazon etc. (On Amazon those books are not free because Amazon does not allow free books so there is a little charge). I talked with him about the google books, he told me that he was not able to publish on google because Google Play Books is not accepting new authors currently. If you search on Google Books then you will not find any book, you might find a link to smashwords website which is an independent distributor but you will not find links to B&N, I-books and Amazon on Google Books, because they are rivals. But on Google search you will find his books easily to download.
Now your second point, you said there are hundreds of swamis and Gurus who claim to belong to Nath tradition. Yes it is possible and one cannot say that all of them are lying, it is possible that many of them really belong to Nath tradition because as time passes more and more people will keep coming into this tradition. What is so special about Swami Saurabhnath? The special thing is he does not claim to be a Guru nor he does any show off, the title Swami is misunderstood because of the misuse of many people, Swami means a person who is having spiritual interest. I don't want to talk about other Swamis because I don't know them but as far as Swami Saurabhnath is concerned his ordinariness is his specialty. If you come across him on the road and you don't know him then you will not even notice that he belongs to Nath or some other spiritual tradition, he lives with such ordinary way. He is not involved into any organization, any cult in particular or any type of politics. He works in purely spiritual manner with complete devotion, he is available to interact directly without any middle man. If you want you can contact him directly on the email id mentioned on his website, his complete postal address is also available there. I think he is the real Nath as Nath tradition expects one to be. I understand that this criteria is applicable outside wikipedia but when you ask what is so special about Swami Saurabhnath then I have to tell criteria which is outside wikipedia.
I think I have responded reasonably to all your objections on inserting the link, if you still have doubts about the credibility of Swami Saurabhnath, then contact him directly if you have spiritual understanding and judge him yourself. I hope you will not object anymore on inserting link, if you still have objections then I am ready to wait, because neither me nor Swami Saurabhnath has any hurry to get a link on wikipedia, we want love from readers, not their objections and doubts. Makarandadeshpande (talk) 10:56, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

@Iṣṭa Devatā: Before entering the link of Swami Saurabhnath, I had clearly stated the reasons here, why do you think it is a LINKSPAM, have you read this discussion before removing the link? Makarandadeshpande (talk) 02:12, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

@Joshua Jonathan: What do you want to suggest? Makarandadeshpande (talk) 15:22, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

That you read WP:COI, and stop this. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 17:28, 2 October 2016 (UTC)
Ok, I stop Makarandadeshpande (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:48, 2 October 2016 (UTC)
Thanks. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 19:29, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Nath. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 22:50, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Nath. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 00:10, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

Categories: