Revision as of 02:57, 31 August 2011 editEdJohnston (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Checkusers, Administrators71,205 edits →Result concerning Jingiby: Could use some more data← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 20:29, 25 December 2024 edit undoWalter Tau (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users3,878 edits →Statement by Walter Tau | ||
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== |
==M.Bitton== | ||
{{hat|result=M.Bitton is warned against ] and reminded to abide by ]. ] (]) 06:35, 19 December 2024 (UTC)}} | |||
{{hat|Blocked for one month. -- ''']'''] 19:11, 30 August 2011 (UTC)}} | |||
'' |
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> | ||
===Request concerning |
===Request concerning M.Bitton=== | ||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : |
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|XDanielx}} 07:55, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | ||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks| |
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|M.Bitton}}<p>{{ds/log|M.Bitton}}</p> | ||
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: |
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: | ||
] | |||
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | |||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | ; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | ||
I'll limit this to ] related issues for now, since they're easiest to evaluate with minimal context. | |||
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. --> | |||
* (historic record of discussion on ]) | |||
# {{tq|xDanielx being disingenuous again (what they mean by "no explanation" is "no explanation that they agree with")}} | |||
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) : A warning was given in the discussion above. | |||
# {{tq|casting aspersions to justify your disruptive editing is about as low as it gets ... this is extremely disingenuous ... made-up rules and demands to satisfy you}} | |||
<!-- Many arbitration remedies require a prior warning before sanctions may be imposed. Link to the warning here. --> | |||
# {{tq|please don't make-up another rule ... maybe that's because you only see what you want to see}} (partly struck per admin request) | |||
# , {{tq|Misplaced Pages is not a collection of every piece of alleged garbage}} | |||
# {{tq|When someone keeps misrepresenting the sources (again and again), then I will rightly assume disingenuousness}} | |||
# {{tq|I'm starting to question your motives}} | |||
# {{tq|Please refrain from repeating your lies}} ( to {{tq|You're being extremely disingenuous. You misrepresented the sources (clearly to push a POV)}} | |||
# {{tq|I don't take lessons from those who misrepresent the sources and edit war over ]}} | |||
# {{tq|please don't attribute your nonsense to me (this is totally unacceptable)}} | |||
# {{tq|Bobfrombrockley is busy adding whatever garbage they can find}} | |||
# {{tq|you've been very busy adding whatever garbage you could find to the article}} | |||
# {{tq|Do you expect me to explain to you what "freedom of expression" is?}} | |||
# {{tq|I'm done wasting my time with this nonsense ... Your self-serving opinion is irrelevant}} | |||
# offensive humor | |||
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : | |||
I'm not aware of CTOP sanctions. The seems to show four blocks, but they're not that recent and I'm not sure how relevant they are. | |||
; If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]): | |||
* Was a subject of a previous ARBPIA AE ]. | |||
* Made a couple other statements in ARBPIA AE requests: , | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | ; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | ||
Another 15 diffs were (rightfully) removed by an admin for exceeding the diff limit as well as falling outside PIA scope; just mentioning for transparency. They might be relevant on a different forum but admittedly not here. — ] <sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub>\<sup>]</sup> 16:37, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
<!-- Add any further comment you have here --> | |||
Miradre has been editing the article ] for a while now. The subject is not directly related to the topic ban, but there is nevertheless some proximity with topics covered in ] and ]. The article currently contains a section ] () which in its first paragraph discusses in detail the ''reification of intelligence'', a topic introduced by ] in the ''precise context'' of the debate on R&I in the two articles above (it is discussed in those articles). I have advised Miradre that even discussing that section, or proposing that he would move it and thus edit that content, is a clear violation of the topic ban imposed by {{admin|2over0}}. The responses of Miradre in the section linked to above were evasive and gave no recognition that this particular topic ("the reification of intelligence") lay well within the topic ban. The discussion took place on the talk page of the article because Miradre has previously blanked messages from me on their user talk page. | |||
{{yo|theleekycauldron}} I planned to file something after the "garbage" comments (about BobFromBrockley) on ]. I reconsidered after being surprised by M.Bitton's there. Admittedly M.Bitton's comments in the thread above prompted me to reconsider again, but that wasn't about the fact that I might receive a warning there (irrespective of M.Bitton's participation); it was just about me personally being on the receiving end of some personal attacks. I don't really follow why me being emotionally affected by the conduct would affect the legitimacy of the report. Most of the incivility was directed at other users, and letting this conduct continue wouldn't seem fair to them. — ] <sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub>\<sup>]</sup> 16:41, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
Another edit of this kind occurred in the section on ] in ], a week into the topic ban. The beginning of the section makes it clear that the criticisms were related to the debate on race and intelligenc: there is a wikilink to the article ]. This material, including its relation with sociobiology, is also covered in the article on the ]. Miradre edited the section here, two paragraphs after the paragraph where the debate on race and intelligence is discussed. Miradre has edited other parts of this article more recently. | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
Miradre added the section on IQ in ] 2 days before the topic ban, which is fine. But correcting somebody else's edit to it after the ban does not seem quite right. | |||
===Discussion concerning M.Bitton=== | |||
Userspace edits like this , with an explicit discussion of R&I content and literature, are also blatantly pushing at the limits of the topic ban. ] (]) 11:32, 8 August 2011 (UTC) <small>further edits. ] (]) 11:14, 17 August 2011 (UTC)</small> | |||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | |||
{{collapse top|further comments not directly related to this request}} | |||
*The content in this case specifically concerns Gould's use of the term "reification of intelligence" in the debate on race and intelligence as the historic link above shows. It has never been used in another context to my knowledge. ] (]) 11:48, 8 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by M.Bitton==== | |||
*As I have written, one of the references in the section under discussion is to Gould's ]. The subject is taken up in that reference in Chapter VI, "The Real Error of Cyril Burt: Factor Analysis and The Reification of Intelligence". In that chapter, Gould writes, "It is scarcely surprising that Arthur Jensen used Sir Cyril's figures as the most important datum in his notorious article (1969) on supposedly inheritable and irradicable differences in intelligence between whites and blacks in America." That makes the context very clear and leaves little room for ambiguity. ] (]) 14:13, 8 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
Not content with edit warring, assuming bad faith and casting aspersions (see ]), they now decided to ] and file a retaliatory report. ] (]) 09:56, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:{{re|Vanamonde93|Ealdgyth}} I just want to draw your attention to their aspersions casting {{tq|tag-team revert|q=yes}} (], while striking it, leaves no doubt about they believe) and the fact that they falsely accused me: of ignoring their ping (when I was logged out) and reverting without an explanation (when, in fact, I did provide one). ] (]) 18:04, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
::{{re|Ealdgyth}} I agree and will make sure that doesn't happen in the future, regardless of what's coming the other way. I should know better than let myself take the bait, but lesson learnt nonetheless. ] (]) 18:14, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::{{re|Valereee}} sure. ] (]) 00:36, 11 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by (username)==== | |||
* Miradre proposed moving the section here. He had moved another section to ] previously by deleting it and copy-pasting it into that article. ] (]) 14:48, 8 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. --> | |||
===Result concerning M.Bitton=== | |||
* I am not going to comment on Miradre's edits elsewhere, which have involved conflicts with multiple editors and administrators on articles that prior to his editing were neutral and unproblematic. That is not the concern of this noticeboard. ] (]) 21:38, 8 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. --> | |||
*<!-- | |||
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* This is shamelessly and obviously a retaliatory filing, and I'm leaning towards a one- or two-way interaction ban to stop the back-and-forth sniping. But I'd still draw uninvolved admins' attention to ] and ask what their thoughts are. That seems like pretty battleground-y behavior to me. ] (] • she/her) 14:27, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:I see it as a bit retaliatory, but we do need to stop this sniping, especially at AE and other such venues. ] (]) 14:36, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*::Yeah, a logged warning sounds like enough to me, given their responses so far. ] (] • she/her) 00:36, 11 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*Yes, this is retaliatory, and at the same time, M. Bitton's language is not acceptable. Bad behavior should be addressed at an administrator noticeboard, or in a civil post to a user talk page, not with what SFR accurately describes as sniping. I would log a warning for casting aspersions. ] (]) 17:15, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
* I agree with SFR and Vanamonde93 that the language used does not help the topic area at all. I don't know if M.Bitton's had a long history of logged warnings before (I'm a bit busy trying to get the farm ready for an artic clipper coming in) but I'm fine with a logged warning. But the filer should be aware that they need to also try to avoid retaliatory-filing look in the future... ] (]) 17:48, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
** I'm not happy about Daniel's behavior (but will try to find time to look at it in the earlier filing to avoid getting this one off track) but, M.Bitton, your comments are not just sub-par, but not at all what editors should be directing at others. An acknowledgment of that and working to avoid that in the future is something you need to seriously consider if you're not going to end up sanctioned in the future. ] (]) 18:08, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I also think a logged warning should be adequate here, particularly given the limited sanctions history and the . Personally I'm not bothered by the timing of this report in light of xDanielx's explanation, although it's wise to avoid even the appearance of retaliation when you're at AE. ] (]) 22:44, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I don't disagree that this is retaliatory, but that doesn't moot the issue. M.Bitton does tend to approach editing in a battleground-y way, and their language often escalates rather than de-escalates. I'd very much like you to start using de-escalating language, {{u|M.Bitton}}. Can you discuss that? ] (]) 00:27, 11 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:I meant can you discuss it ''here'', but maybe I wasn't clear. ] (]) 15:56, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*Have not read this but will note that {{u| xDanielx}} is at their word limit. Daniel if you want to post anything else please get an extension first from an uninvolved administrator. ] (]) 02:48, 11 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*Comment to stave off the bot. Looks like the proposed resolution here is a warning for battleground behavior, does that still seem the way to go? ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 09:07, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:A logged warning, sure. ] (]) 15:54, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*::Agreed, and I also agree we should put this to bed. ] (]) 20:52, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
{{hab}} | |||
==Ethiopian Epic== | |||
* I have reverted an edit by {{user|A.B.C.Hawkes}}, identified by checkusers as a sockpuppet acvount and now indefinitely blocked for sockpuppetry by Sandstein. The original puppetmaster seems to be A.K.Nole, based on similar postings in the past on ArbCom-related pages (see ]). ] (]) 09:41, 9 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> | |||
===Request concerning Ethiopian Epic=== | |||
* My voluntary withdrawal from editing articles or talk pages directly related to race and intelligence, as interpreted by me, is my own choice. I am not under any formal ban. ] has nothing to do with the topic of R&I and Miradre is misguided in suggesting otherwise. Strict ArbCom topic bans apply to Miradre, Ferahgo the Assassin, Captain Occam and Ephery (= David.Kane). ] (]) 15:19, 9 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Tinynanorobots}} 11:23, 12 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Ethiopian Epic}}<p>{{ds/log|Ethiopian Epic}}</p> | |||
* '''Comment''' I don't believe that Captain Occam can comment here. He appears to be breaking the terms of his extended topic ban; and certainly, in reviewing my edits, which are subject to no formal restrictions, is way off-topic here.He is indeed treating this ArbCom noticeboard as if it were ], in a frivolous manner. I have made a request to ArbCom ] to clarify this matter. There I have also brought up the issues of meatpuppetry in which Captain Occam and Ferahgo the Asassin have been involved over the past year, in that way breaking the terms of their own topic bans through proxies. ] (]) 21:45, 9 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
*'''Yet another side comment''' In the past two weeks or so Mikemikev has created a flurry of sockpuppets, some extremely malicious. The most malicious involve outing explicitly in user names. All traces of these have been removed from wikipedia, thanks to the kind help of Fred Bauder, Casliber, Elen of the Roads and LessHeard VanU. In addition Mikemikev has posted nasty racist comments on Stormfront and created two racist attack pages on ED.ch, dealt with by an administrator there with an account here. As Comicania he created an attack file on Commons which was dealt with here and on Commons with the kind help of MastCell, Moonriddengirl and Philippe Beaudette of WMF. It has taken a lot of effort and vigilance in project space, with the dedicated help of checkusers, to deal with this disruption connected with ]. Arbitrators have been kept informed about these problems and continue to be extremely helpful. Captain Occam's suggestion that I be restricted in project space shows no awareness of the ongoing problems caused by the community banned editor Mikemikev or of similar disruption by his own meatpuppets. ] (]) 23:38, 9 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] | |||
*'''Sample "agenda driven" editing of Miradre''': Miradre adds BLP violating information about ] to ] based on a public tax declaration. Maunus removes the citation to the source. I remove the unsourced BLP violation per ]. On the talk page Miradre then suggests using an extract in the article drawn from this quote from a website: | |||
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | |||
{{hat|click to view}} | |||
"Democracy Now’s pro-Muslim and anti-Christian bias shows again in their lopsided reporting on events in the Ivory Coast. If you hate Christians and support all Muslim actions, no matter how radical or violent, then you will love the reporting that issues from Democracy Now. | |||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | |||
"Far left media outlets such as Democracy Now are not so much actual media outlets as they are pro Muslim propaganda machines for the spread of radical Islam globally. A more appropriate name for what they are doing might be: 'Global Jihad Now' as every single news item which covers the Mideast out of this portal is strongly slanted in support of the global Islamic cause." | |||
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.--> | |||
{{hab}} | |||
# created during the Yasuke case and went active when it ended. First 11 edits were to Government of Japan. In one case three edits were used to write one sentence. | |||
# Manually reverted the lead back to how it was in September. | |||
# Falsely Claimed cited material was OR. (G | |||
# Falsely Claimed cited material was unsourced | |||
# It took an ANI report to get him to use the article talk page. His defense was accusations and denial. | |||
# He reverted to a version that went against consensus established on the talk page and contained a falsely sourced quote. | |||
# Engages in sealioning | |||
# Removes a well sourced line from Yasuke as well as reverted an edit that was the result of BRD. He has now started disputes with me on all three Yasuke related articles. | |||
# starts disputing a new section of | |||
# Brought again to ANI, he claims that I didn't get consensus for changes, even though I had discussed them on talk prior to making them. | |||
# He keeps mentioning ONUS, and asking me to discuss it, in response to me discussing. | |||
# Used a non-controversial revert to hide his edit warring. | |||
# did the same thing on List of foreign-born samurai in Japan. | |||
# He also repeatedly complains that he doesn't like the definition because it is vague and claims that his preferred version is "status quo" | |||
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : | |||
:] (]) 01:21, 10 August 2011 (UTC) <small> and more recently this attempted BLP violation. ] (]) 16:20, 11 August 2011 (UTC) </small> | |||
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.--> | |||
# Explanation | |||
# Explanation | |||
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):[ | |||
*'''Samples of Miradre's editing in project space''' Firstly on ] here ]:, where two separate queries were raised by Itsmejudith and me. Miradre had suspected that Itsmejudith and I might be academics (he had repeatedly questioned us) and therefore should not be editing the article ] per ]. On ] Miradre is warned about harassment by Atama and his complaint dismissed as frivolous by multiple users, including MastCell. Secondly ] on ], where Miradre tries to get me sanctioned for reproducing inaccessible text for discussion and also temporarily making available off-wiki a copy of a source, that later turns out to be freely available on the web. Miradre had previously created content using only the abstract without checking the source, to which he had no access. ] (]) 08:29, 10 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
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*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on (see the system log linked to above). | |||
*'''Captain Occam and Ludwigs2''' Please see this request by Captain Occam. . Captain Occam might find it helpful to look at ] and in particular ]. ] (]) 06:50, 10 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
*'''My editing''' Contrary to Captain Occam's suggestions, my break from creating new articles this year is not due to a lack of interest but events in real life (research in mathematics, lecturing in Cambridge, a major concert commitment in June, several minor problems of ill health, including bronchitis in April-May and a head injury sustained near the ] two weeks ago, etc). Article creation for me at least is very time-consuming. At present I am more than halfway through learning BWV 529 from ], which I'm contemplating making into a blue link. ] (]) 10:14, 10 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | |||
*'''A pinch of salt''' Memills claims of 'agenda driven' editors apparently extend to uninvolved administrators, so those commenting here should please be careful. Here Memills refers to Dougweller, Sandstein and MaterialScientist as a ] because they all suggested page numbers were recommended in citations from lengthy sources. ] (]) 10:03, 14 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
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I am not sure if this is actually a AE matter, but was told to go here by multiple admins. The biggest issue is the Editing against consensus on accompanied by bludgeoning. However, there are signs of bad faith editing on all three pages where I have interacted with EE. It could also be a CIR issue or it could be some sort of harassment. I don't know. I just know that EE first avoided providing clear reasons for reverting edits and has been trying to engage in Status Quo Stonewalling. He keeps citing Onus or Burden and asks me not to make a change until the discussion is over. Often, this doesn't make sense in context, because the change was in place. He has made false claims about sources and what they say. His editing on Yasuke is not so much a problem as the discussion which comes across as gaslighting. | |||
:@], I am not an expert on proxies or socks. All the IPs have only posted on the one article and have advocated an odd definition for samurai, that doesn't apply to the article. All except the first one have just reverted. It is possible that this is just laziness, or lack of confidence in writing skills etc. After all, the false citation was added by another user and was just kept. I found the latest one the most suspect, in part because of it first reverting to the incorrect definition, before restoring most of the text and second because of falsely citing policy. I am not sure if they are proxies, but I hoped that someone here would have the expertise to know. I don't think the proxy evidence is the most important. EE is either acting in bad faith or has CIR problems. The later is possible, because he thanked City of Silver during ANI, although City of Silver has been the harshest critic of EE's behaviour towards me. | |||
*'''Comment on Boothello''' This is a ] created shortly after the topic ban of Captain Occam was extended to Ferhago the Assassin. He edits exclusively in the area covered by that topic ban and with their point of view. Despite the fact that he edits relatively little and in no common areas to me, he shares the same animosity towards me as Captain Occam, Ferahgo Asassin and one of their meatpuppets SightWatcher (whose real life identity has already been confirmed with ArbCom). Prior to Miradre's topic ban, Boothello has been outspoken in his support for Miardre's editing; it is hard to know how to interpret that now. Like SightWatcher, without warning he has made requests concerning me directly to members of ArbCom. Perhaps because of the questionmark hanging over his account, shared by other users, his requests have gone unanswered. Like Captain Occam, Boothello is participating here as if this arbitration enforcement board were ]. Boothello has explained his editing history on previous occasions: he is a reformed vandal, previously editing anonymously, who in November suddenly developed an interest in race and intelligence because of a course at university. There are other more plausible explanations of Boothello's editing history. ] (]) 08:11, 16 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:I think there should be some important context to the quote: {{tq|"those who serve in close attendance to the nobility"}}. The quote can be found in several books, on ] it is sourced to an article published in Black Belt Magazine in the 80s by ], where he describes the origin of the word samurai. He is describing the early phases of its meaning in that quote, before it became to have martial connotations. It also refers to the time before 900. The earliest foreign samurai on the list was in the late 1500s. It also doesn't apply to most of the persons on the list. Finally, it is not mentioned in Vaporis's book, which EE keeps adding as the source. He hasn't even made the effort to copy the citation from ]. | |||
*'''Disruption by Mikemikev''' Two IPsocks of Mikemikev—easily identifiable in view of his ] and ] and their editing history—have disrupted this request, the second with racist abuse, some of which is still visible. (Aprock and I reverted all but one of the edits.) Both ipsocks have been blocked at my request. Miradre is now attempting to use that disruption for their own purposes. The sockpuppetry was blatant per ], although Miradre chose to question my identification. Miradre's reactions and continued wikilawyering about this disruption looks like ] to me and that game is not ] :) ] (]) 10:43, 17 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
{{collapse bottom}} | |||
:@] | |||
*'''Concluding comments''' The extended topic bans imposed here on Captain Occam and Ferahgo the Assassin should probably be revised to exclude compulsarily participation in ] requests related to ] in which they are not involved. As a result of Captain Occam's intervention, others, including me, have made general comments here on Miradre's editing patterns following his topic ban. | |||
Not only did I have a dispute with Symphony Regalia about samurai being "retainers to lords", but also on Yasuke about "As a samurai" and on ] EE made the same reverts as SR. EE had with his first edit in all three articles continued a dispute that I had already had with SR. | |||
:Taking into account the views of multiple experienced editors commenting here about Miradre's edits (presented as a consequence of Captain Occam's comments), it would appear that Miradre might be heading for a, regrettably unavoida.ble, indefinite community ban. That of course is not a concern of this noticeboard. ] (]) 09:09, 10 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request, and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. --> | |||
:@] I actually don't have a problem with you discussing things. Your talk page posts aren't really discussion though. Your main argument on all three pages has been a shifting of the burden of proof. You don't really discuss content and continually ask me not to make changes without discussing first, and then make changes yourself. I understand that your position is that your preferred version is the status quo. However, my edits regarding the definition on ] , were discussed and consensus was clearly gotten. Similarly, my edits on Yasuke were discussed, and even though I didn't use the exact same version as Gitz said, Gitz had suggested using warrior instead of bushi, so I used samurai, because I thought it would be less controversial. | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
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===Discussion concerning |
===Discussion concerning Ethiopian Epic=== | ||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | |||
====Statement by |
====Statement by Ethiopian Epic==== | ||
This is clear retaliatory filing because I recently didn't agree with Tinynanorobot's , and because I made talk page sections on some recent edits. | |||
* The topic ban is regarding the ] of race and intelligence. There was no discussion regarding race. Neither was there a discussion regarding intelligence. I was simply pointing out that the given source does not mention evolutionary psychology at all. I was making no claim regarding and did not discus either race or intelligence and thus not their intersection. The ] is of course not something limited to race and intelligence or for that matter invented by Gould but a general logical fallacy discussed in numerous other areas. ] (]) 11:49, 8 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:* Futhermore, the claim by Matschi that the terms intelligence and reification are somehow inseparable from the race and intelligence discussion and "has never been used in another context to my knowledge" is very strange considering that there is no mention of race in the "Reification fallacy" section. Furthermore, there are 18,600 Google Scholar hits for the terms "intelligence" and "reification". Most do not seem to mention race. | |||
:* Not sure why Mathsci brings up that quote from Gould's book. As noted above, I made no claims regarding and did not discuss either race or intelligence. Obviously therefore not their intersection. I stated that there is no mention of evolutionary psychology in the claimed sources. Neither does the "Reification fallacy" section discuss the race and intelligence controversy or mention race at all. The ] is a common logical fallacy in numerous different fields. ] (]) 14:40, 8 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:* Mathsci has more recently also added a diff from the sociobiology article which he claims is related to an hidden, unsourced link several paragraphs away. The link is hidden under the name "controversies in the history of intelligence testing" and the article text itself does not mention race. Anyway, the ] is about statements of the type "if there is rape/infanticide/incest among some animal species, then humans ought to practice rape/infanticide/incest also". It is not about the race and intelligence controversy. None of the race and intelligence articles mention that problem. ] (]) 12:36, 12 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:* Mathsci also objects to me removing an incorrectly placed citation mark in the psychopathy article. Had nothing to do with the intersection of race and intelligence. Shows the desperate nature of the accusations.] (]) 11:28, 17 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:* Note also this seems be part of a general harassment of me. Wherever I go Mathsci and sometimes Aprock appears to oppose me, even if they never had made any edits to the articles before. In particular Mathsci's almost only recent activity in Misplaced Pages is following me around as can be seen from his edit history. Often to articles he has never edited before I started editing them. As well as making numerous different complaints to various noticeboards or persons regarding me or the articles I edit. Something should be done about what seems to have become an almost scary obsession with me. ] (]) 21:03, 8 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:* Also, the earlier topic banned Mathsci has clearly broken his promise to the ArbCom to stay away from this area. See for example his edits here in a discussion regarding Lynn's book ''IQ and the Wealth of Nations'': . ] (]) 14:21, 9 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:* Mathsci has now added a strange, misleading, and inaccurate misrepresentation of a dispute at the Democracy Now article. I did not mention that quote in the talk page in response to removing the information from the tax statement as Mathsci claims. I mentioned that biased quote as an ironic counter against the equally biased self-congratulatory, self-published quotes that are prominent in the article. As anyone can see on ]. As well as Mathsci's refusal to include anything negative. Also, this is unrelated to this AE case. ] (]) 02:11, 10 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:* Mathsci continues with his misrepresentations. First he implies that I had made a COI complaint while I only asked him to consider this on the talk page of the article. It was Mathsci who made a complaint regarding this on COI board which lead to no action since I had made no COI complaint. Regarding the copyright complaint Mathsci had uploaded a copyrighted paper to his webpage and gave a public link to this. This link was of course removed by the reviewing administrator. Also, again, this is completely unrelated to this AE case so I do not understand why he takes it up. Seems to be further harassment. ] (]) 08:44, 10 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:* Mathsci continues with completely unrelated issues. Yes, I accept the result of the discussion at the BLP board which I initiated but it has nothing to do with the topic ban. ] (]) 16:24, 11 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:* Continuing with yet more unrelated issues, Mathsci now starts talking of an "unavoidable, indefinite" community ban. Every one of the critical editors who have expressed opinions here are editors who have been involved in extensive content disputes with me. They are not uninvolved or representative of the community. I note that I edit constructively and add substantial new material to Misplaced Pages from academic sources while Mathsci's only activity these days seems to be to participate in disputes and ] and revert those editors he dislikes. See also Captain Occam's comments regarding this below. ] (]) 17:02, 11 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:* Mathsci is now accusing an evolutionary psychologist objecting to his view of having a COI. This is just as incorrect as it would be to accuse the anthropologists supporting him of having a COI. Also, it likely violates the prohibition against using COI accusations in order to gain the upper hand in disputes. ] (]) 13:43, 13 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:* Mathsci has also not so subtly accused me of antisemitism. That is offensive and incorrect. I have never made any such edits or comments. In fact, I have repeatedly reverted deletions of material by antisemitic editors regarding IQ. As well as argued that recognition of racial differences in IQ is necessary in order to explain differing group achievements which otherwise likely are seen as unjustified exploitations by high IQ groups and can have, and have had, consequences like persecution and genocide of high IQ groups. See my comments here copied from an earlier ArbCom case: ] ] (]) 10:31, 17 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
::*In addition Mathsci apparently thinks that the topic ban prohibits me from defending myself against such accusations since he cites the sandbox quoting an earlier arbitration case as additional evidence. ] (]) 11:20, 17 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
* Reply to Aprock: Aprock has already tried to get the ArbCom to ban me for editing such articles in the Request for Clarification but he was ignored. Again taking up exactly the same accusations (including the book '']'' and its rankings of the ''fame'' of ''individuals'') that was ignored by the ArbCom is harassment. None of the articles are about either intelligence or race. Obviously therefore not about their intersection. See also my earlier reply to his identical, ignored accusations earlier before the ArbCom: ] (]) 18:19, 8 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:* Also, he includes an edit that I had self-reverted: | |||
:* Aprock is also adding various grossly inaccurate personal editorials regarding my edits: "Criticisms of socialism: evolutionary criticism of socialism from A Darwinian Left" (The book argues the opposite), "Bride price: evolutionary psychology explains it all" (Certainly never claimed that), "Incest taboo: genetic explanations for incest" (evolutionary psychology argues for a genetic aversion to incest) (Update: This particular inaccuracy has been fixed now), as well as making claims of promotion due to simply adding evolutionary psychology templates to evolutionary psychology articles. He is also trying to insinuate, for example, that I made 96 edits to the Psychopathy article regarding genetic causes when such edits are only a very small minority of my edits to that article. ] (]) 17:43, 17 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:* Aprock has added some more incorrect commentary. First, I rarely use primary sources but instead use textbooks and reviews. Second, adding new views is not prohibited but part of NPOV. Third, aprock seems to be arguing that adding any evolutionary psychology material at all is undue in itself since he objects to articles having any mention at all of such views. Fourth, his complaints makes it perfectly clear that he is trying to use AE to win unrelated content disputes. ] (]) 21:35, 22 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:* Aprock continues making incorrect statements. This is, as clearly stated, a review article: ] (]) 15:15, 26 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
* Reply to ResidentAnthropologist (As well as Maunus, AndyTheGrump, and Itsmejudith who consistently turn up and argue with the same strong personal POV on these topics): This comment is somewhat weird. He seems to be arguing that all pages with a discussion of liberal and conservative views are related to race and intelligence. I can assure him that they are not. Also his claim that my view is that "the mainstream consensus is wrong on R&I" certainly does not describe my POV on that issue. My POV is that the majority view among academic IQ researchers as has been determined in surveys is correct. Currently one focus for me is improving Misplaced Pages's articles on evolutionary psychology subjects which also include the application in anthropology. That is a sensitive subject for some anthropologists who reject evolutionary psychology. Which may be behind ResidentAnthropologist's (as well as Maunus's) objections. However, there are many things in politics and psychology that are not about the race and intelligence controversy. I have avoided any edits concerning either race and intelligence and thus also their intersection. Some seem to be using the topic ban as an excuse to stop me from editing any topic they personally disagree on. ] (]) 03:15, 10 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
** Additional comment to AndyTheGrump: He claims without any evidence that "almost all anthropologists 'reject evolutionary psychology". Of course, I have already cited evidence to the contrary such as introductory anthropology textbooks on the Cultural Anthropology talk page. But I think his complaint illustrates quite nicely the attempt to use AE enforcement to win content disputes on issues unrelated to the topic ban. ] (]) 13:46, 11 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
**Additional comment to Itsmejudith: She argues that my "English is poor too so when s/he adds large amounts of content, other people have to clean up afterwards." I am not a native speaker. But I have almost all of what I add on my watchlist and "cleaning up" does not seem to occur to any significant degree. Also, this does not seem to be an AE issue. ] (]) 15:29, 11 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
* Reply to Slrubenstein: Since Slrubenstein is another anthropologist ideologically opposed to evolutionary psychology also look above. First, the representation of the debate at the cultural anthropology has numerous factual errors and misrepresentations but since Slrubenstein admits it did not concern R&I arbitration there is no reason to go into details. Second, evolutionary arguments are not an important or even at all part of the debate and evidence regarding whether racial differences in intelligence are genetic or not. That evidence concerns statistical analyzes of IQ tests, brain scanning, reactions time, genetic testing, and on. Now, there may be evolutionary explanations if it is proven that the differences are genetic but that is another issue. The race and IQ debate is not dependent on evolutionary psychology but it may be that certain views and ideologies in anthropology that some anthropologists here endorse do are dependent on evolutionary psychology views not being true. Again I have avoided any edits concerning either race and intelligence and thus also their intersection. Some seem to be using the topic ban as an excuse to stop me from editing any topic they personally disagree on for other reasons. ] (]) 12:33, 10 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
@] That's not true and you are a very obvious alt account with only 26 edits. No one gave you a notification of this discussion and it's not on the Yasuke talk page. This suggests you are the sock puppet of someone here. Your post is also misleading and incorrect it wasn't an insertion. The line you are talking about in Samurai has been there for over 10 years and is normal. I know because I've read it before. Here is a version from 2017 . I don't understand why you are misrepresenting edits and using an alt account. | |||
====Comments by others about the request concerning Miradre ==== | |||
@] I think he is just fishing. That's why he removed his IP claims. Even his other diffs are just mislabeled regular behavior. It's amusing because Eronymous is the likely alt of Tinynanorobots or someone posting here. I think the way Tinynanorobots edits against clear consensus, skips discussion, and then files frivolous ANI/AE reports with misleading narrative like above is disruptive. Discussion is an easy solution and benefits everyone. I hope he will respect RFC consensus. | |||
=====Comments by aprock ===== | |||
====Statement by Relm==== | |||
I'll start by noting that Miradre has been testing the boundaries of his topic | |||
I am largely unfamiliar with the account in question, but I do frequently check ]. I believe that EthiopianEpic has displayed a clear slant and battleground mindset in their editing in regards to the topic of Yasuke, but that their conduct on the Yasuke page itself so far has generally been in the ballpark of good faith edits. The revert on December 9th was justified, and their topic on November 29th is well within bounds (though I acknowledge that the background of their prior disputes on other pages with Tinynanorobots shows it may be edit warring) given that the two things being reverted was a change that seemed to skirt the prior RFC with agreement being given in a very non-direct way, and the other portion being an addition which had not been discussed on the talk page prior to its implementation (though previous discussions ered on the side of not including it). I am ''not'' accusing Tinynanorobots of any misconduct in any part of that either. | |||
ban from day one. His | |||
for precise delineation of "broadly construed" was | |||
submitted within 24 hours of his topic ban. Since then he has gone on to make | |||
edits in a large number of articles testing the boundary. The topic area is | |||
"the intersection of race/ethnicity and human abilities and behaviour, broadly | |||
construed" as described in the | |||
. Miradre has pursued two topic areas related to the topic ban. Miradre's edits in these topic areas have generated significant dispute and disruption. Extensive walls of text have been produced on talk pages and notice boards involving a diverse group of editors. Links to such discussions are included. | |||
What I will note is that in addition to the sockpuppet IP allegations made by Tinynanorobots, I wanted to lodge that the posting style of EthiopianEpic, as well as their knowledge of much of the previous discussions on the page deep in the archive, led me to suspect that they were an alt of ]. I never found anything conclusive. ] (]) 14:48, 12 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
The first topic area is that of evolutionary explanations for behavior and ability. | |||
This is a generalization of the point of view that Miradre was pushing in the | |||
topic area when he was banned. Specifically, Miradre was promoting content | |||
which supported the position that intelligence is genetically linked to race. | |||
====Statement by Simonm223==== | |||
Over the past month, Miradre has pursued the promotion of evolutionary psychology across 43 articles, many of which had no previous mention of the topic. Much of the content added is based on synthesis of primary sources, and generally adds undue weight to the view of evolutionary psychologists. This is exactly the same disruptive editing pattern that characterized Miradres approach to editing race/intelligence related articles. I ask that this specific issue addressed. If this is not the correct venue for this behavior to be addressed, I ask that an admin or ArbCom member suggest a more appropriate forum. | |||
These two editors have been tangling at WP:AN/I repeatedly. Last time they came there I said that this would likely continue until a third party intervened. And then the thread got archived with no action () so I'm not surprised that the two of them are still tangling. There is evidence that both editors have engaged in a slow-motion edit war. | |||
Both have claimed the other is editing against consensus. Here I will say that it appears TinyNanoRobots is more correct than Ethiopian Epic. Furthermore, while neither editors' comportment has been stellar, as other editors have pointed out, it appears more that EE is following TNR about and giving them a hard time than the alternate. . In the linked AN/I case (above) you'll note EE attempted a boomerang on TNR and was not well-received for the effort. | |||
Frankly my view is that both editors are not editing to the best standards of Misplaced Pages but there is definitely a ''more'' disruptive member of this duo and that is Ethiopian Epic. I think it would probably cut down on the noise considerably if they were encouraged to find somewhere to edit which was not a CTOP subject and if they were encouraged to leave TNR alone. ] (]) 18:05, 12 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
Editing of artilces to promote the views of evolutionary psychology and genetic determinism. | |||
::* ]: genetically determined behavior | |||
::* ]: genetic evolution of rape | |||
::* ]: evolutionary explanations of aggression | |||
::* ]: evolutionary psychology explanations | |||
::* ]: 9 edits. genetic vs. social explanations | |||
::* ]: biology vs. sociology | |||
::* ]: evolutionary psychology explanations for beards | |||
::* ]: ''evolutionary psychology explains it all'' | |||
::* ]: evolutionary explanation of rape | |||
::* ]: promotion of evolutionary psychology | |||
::* ]: evolutionary psychology explanations | |||
::* ]: 106 edits. (see discussion above) | |||
::: ]: majority of talk page | |||
::* ]: evolutionary criticism of socialism from ] | |||
::* ]: 5 edits. evolutionary/genetic explanations | |||
::: ]: talk page discussion ('''quite the worthwhile read''') | |||
::* ]: promoting evolutionary psychology | |||
::* ]: undue synthesis based on single primary source | |||
::* ]: evolutionary psychology explanations for dowries | |||
::* ]: undue synthesis based on single primary source | |||
::* ]: promotion of evolutionary psychology | |||
::* ]: promotion of evolutionary psychology | |||
::* ]: 7 edits. removing eugenics information | |||
::* ]: promotion of evolutionary psychology | |||
::* ]: 10 edits. criticisms of environmental explanations | |||
::: ]: talk page discussion | |||
::: : notice board discussion | |||
::* ]: evolutionary explanation of religion | |||
::* ]: evolutionary psychology explanations based on primary sourcing | |||
::* ]: genetic explanations for gender differences in crime | |||
::* ] touting of evolutionary psychology | |||
::* ]: genetic explanations for incest taboo | |||
::: ]: talk page dispute | |||
::* ]: evolutionary psychology theories | |||
::: ]: talk page dispute | |||
::* ]: 9 edits. added evolutionary psychology content | |||
::* ]: 5 edits. moved evolutionary psychology material to the article | |||
::* ]: evolutionary psychology explanations based on primary sourcing | |||
::* ]: evolutionary explanations | |||
::* ]: , promotion of genetic and evolutionary psychology content | |||
::* ]: evolutionary psychology section added | |||
::* ]: spamming evolutionary psychology | |||
::* ]: 96 edits. evolutionary explanations | |||
::: ]: talk page discussion | |||
::* ]: 6 edits. social vs. evolutionary explanations | |||
::* ]: evolutionary explanations | |||
::* ]: evolutionary explanations of rape | |||
::* ]: link article to ] | |||
::* ]: evolutionary psychology views added | |||
::* ]: 35 edits. The article is about a popular book that argues for more consideration of genetic explanation of human behavior | |||
::: ]: talk page discussion | |||
::* ]: evolutionary psychology added | |||
::* ]: evolutionary/genetic explanations of violence | |||
::* ]: 10 edits. Inserting evolutionary psychology views from ] | |||
====Statement by Eronymous==== | |||
The second topic area is in the promotion of ]'s book '']''. As author of '']'' Charles Murray is a key | |||
Similar to Relm I check on the ] page every so often, and it seems very likely given the evidence that ] is an alt of ] created to evade his recent ArbCom sanctions, having started editing the day prior to the case closure. Of note to this is the of Symphony_Regalia on ] was him attempting to insert the line "who served as retainers to lords (including '']'')" - curiously enough, Ethiopian Epic's on ] (and , having just prior made 11 minor ones in a short timeframe to reach autoconfirmed status) is him attempting to insert the same controversial line that was reverted before. | |||
figure in the race and intelligence debate. | |||
Symphony_Regalia has a history of utilising socks to edit Yasuke/Samurai related topics and is indefinitely blocked from the .jp wiki for (plus multiple suspected IPs) for this. | |||
Editing of articles to promote Charles Murray's book: | |||
::* Discussion at NPOV/N: (archived version: ) | |||
::* ] | |||
::* ] | |||
::* ] | |||
::* ] | |||
::* ] | |||
::* ] | |||
::: ]: talk page discussion | |||
::* ] | |||
Prior to being sanctioned Symphony Regalia frequently got into exactly the same arguments concerning wording/source material with ] that Ethiopian Epic is now. One could assume based on their relationship that he is aggrieved that Tinynanorobots was not sanctioned by ArbCom during the case and is now continuously feuding with him to change that through edit warring and multiple administrator incidents/arbitration requests in the past few weeks. ] (]) 22:31, 12 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
Note that the diffs provided above are not meant to be an exhaustive list of all topical edits. | |||
==== |
====Statement by Nil Einne==== | ||
I too like Captian Occam have been observing the MathSci/Miradre. MathSci is quite open about tracking Mirandre's edits to the encyclopedia. Miradre seems to spew their POV in any article they can think of. | |||
Examine the Scenarios Occam Pointed out, where Mirandre attempts this to continue their own POV pushing here: | |||
I was ?one of the editors who suggested Tinynanorobots consider ARE in the future. I did this mostly because after three threads on ANI with no result, I felt a change of venue might be more productive especially since the more structured nature of ARE, as well as a likely greater concern over low level of misconduct meant that some outcome was more likely. (For clarity, when I suggested this I did feel nothing would happen from the third ANI thread but in any case my advice being taken onboard would likely mean the third thread had no result.) I did try to make clear that I wasn't saying there was definitely a problem requiring sanction and also it was possible Tinynanorobots might themselves end up sanctioned. Since a topic ban on both is being considered, I might have been right in a way. If a topic ban results, I'd like to suggest admins considered some guidance beyond broadly constructed on how any topic ban would apply. While the entirety of the Yasuke article and the list of foreign born samurai stuff seem clear enough, one concern I've had at ANI is how to handle the editing at ] and its talk page. A lot of the recent stuff involving these editors seems to relate to the definition of samurai. AFAIK, this is generally been a big part of the dispute of Yasuke (he can/can't be a samurai because it means A which was/wasn't true about him). ] (]) 12:42, 15 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*{{la|Academia}} Implicitly by suggesting that "Liberals" are in control of Academia and that they all in a massive "group think." (Thus the mainstream consensus is wrong on R&I) and does the same thing to {{la|Academia}}. | |||
*{{la|NPR}} and {{public broadcasting}} are other great examples of continuing "Liberal Vs Conservative" war consistent with far right thinking by attempting to suggest their harmful. | |||
*{{la|Social anthropology}} and {{la|Cultural Anthropology}} pages are extension of promoting the heredterian POV. ] <small>]•(])</small> 00:44, 10 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
===Result concerning Ethiopian Epic=== | |||
=====Comment by Captain Occam ===== | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. --> | |||
*I've never been very impressed with retaliatory filings, and the one below is no exception. I will also note that I'm never too impressed with "must be a sock" type accusations—either file at SPI or don't. In this case, though, I think ] would be better off if neither of these two were participating there. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 19:33, 12 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:{{u|Red-tailed hawk}}, what are your thoughts after the responses to you? ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 16:18, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*::I think that it would be declined if it were an ] report and the editor should be mindful not to throw sock accusations around willy-nilly going forward. But I typically don't see any sort of sanction imposed when someone makes a bad SPI report, particularly if they're newer or aren't quite ] yet. So I don't see much to do on that front other than tell them that we need more specific evidence of socking when reports are made than merely shared interest, particularly when the IPs are scattered across the world. — ] <sub>]</sub> 02:24, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:::I'm still inclined to topic ban both these editors from ], but would be interested in hearing more thoughts on that if anyone has them. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 07:10, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I also generally don't like "might-be-a-sock"-style accusations; when we are accusing someone of ] we typically need evidence to substantiate it rather than just floating the possibility in a flimsy way. Filer has provided as possible socks, but each of those IPs geolocates to a different country (Germany, Norway, and Argentina respectively) and I don't see evidence that any of those IPs are proxies.{{pb}}{{yo|Tinynanorobots}} Can you explain what led you to note the IP edits? Is it merely shared interest and viewpoint, or is there something more?{{pb}}— ] <sub>]</sub> 02:01, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
* Looking at this .... mess... first, I'm not sure what actually was against the ArbCom decision - I don't see a 1RR violation being alleged, and the rest really appears to me to be "throw stuff at the wall and see if it sticks". But, like Seraphimblade, I'm not impressed with either of these editors actual conduct here or in general. I could be brought around to supporting a topic ban for both of these editors in the interests of clearing up the whole topic area. ] (]) 14:33, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
* {{re|Tinynanorobots}} you are well above the 500 word limit. Please request an extension before adding anything more. ] (]) 16:18, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
==Tinynanorobots== | |||
I should start off by mentioning that although I’m topic banned from R&I, my topic ban makes an exception for AE, based on ] in which ArbCom determined that topic bans are not intended to prevent editors from opening or posting in AE threads. In ] where my topic ban was expanded, the suggestion that I not participate in AE threads related to the R&I topic area is listed as "not compulsory". This exception is based on the linked request for clarification: "The latest clarification request may have carved out AE requests as a special case, but I see no justification to expand that exception further." | |||
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> | |||
===Request concerning Tinynanorobots=== | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : ] (]) 19:14, 12 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Tinynanorobots}}<p>{{ds/log|Tinynanorobots}}</p> | |||
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] | |||
I’ve been paying attention to this issue involving Mathsci and Miradre because of an e-mail Mathsci sent me on June 30th, threatening me with some of the behavior that he’s directing at Miradre if I attempt to appeal my topic ban. (On June 30th I’d had no contact with Mathsci in the past several months—the only context of him e-mailing me was that I was discussing the possibility of appealing my topic ban with Newyorkbrad.) The last time I had to endure the full extent of this from Mathsci was sometime in February, so I’ve been watching his interaction with Miradre to get an idea of how he currently acts towards people whom he regards as his adversaries. What I’ve seen isn’t encouraging. | |||
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | |||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | |||
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.--> | |||
#. Tinynanorobots removes {{tq|As a samurai}} from the lead text and replaces it with {{tq|signifying bushi status}} against ] ({{tq|There exists a consensus to refer to Yasuke as a samurai without qualification}}). | |||
I am aware of five examples of Mathsci following to Miradre to articles he had never edited before in order to revert Miradre’s edits. In all five examples, literally the first involvement Mathsci ever had in these articles was reverting edits by Miradre. | |||
#. Tinynanorobots removes {{tq|who served as a samurai}} from the lead text and adds {{tq|who became a bushi or samurai}} against ] ({{tq|There exists a consensus against presenting Yasuke's samurai status as the object of debate}}). | |||
#. On List of Foreign-born Samurai, Tinynanorobots removes the longstanding definition and adds {{tq|This list includes persons who ... may not have been considered a samurai}} against ] ({{tq|There exists a consensus against presenting Yasuke's samurai status as the object of debate}}). | |||
#. Tinynanorobots reverts to remove {{tq|As a samurai}} in the Yasuke article after Gitz6666 opposes at , again ignoring ]. | |||
#. I restore and start a so that consensus can be formed. | |||
#. Tinynanorobots, when consensus fails to form for his position, becomes uncivil and engages in a sarcastic personal attack {{tq|What you are saying doesn't make sense. Perhaps there is a language issue here. Maybe your native language handles the future differently than English?}} | |||
#. Tinynanorobots removes "As a samurai" again, ignoring ] and BRD even though no consensus has formed for his position, and no consensus has formed to change existing consensus. | |||
#. Tinynanorobots explains their reasons, {{tq|I don't know if samurai is the right term}} which is against consensus. | |||
#. POV-pushing - With no edit summary Tinynanorobots tag bombs by adding {{tq|Slavery in Japan}}. | |||
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : | |||
# Explanation | |||
#] | |||
# Explanation | |||
#] | |||
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#] | |||
#] | |||
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]): | |||
#] | |||
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*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on . | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | |||
Tinynanorobots frequently edits against consensus, restores his edits when others revert, doesn't wait for consensus, and engages in feuding behavior. He seems to think ] or ] don't apply to him which is disruptive, and I don't know why. | |||
That’s only the articles in which Mathsci’s absolute first edit to both the article and its talk page was reverting Miradre. If one also includes articles where his first involvement was opposing changes from Miradre without reverting him outright, there are three additional examples: ], in which the first edit Mathsci ever made was tagging content that Miradre added as being non-neutral, as well as ] and ], in which Mathsci’s first-ever participation was to oppose Miradre’s edits on the talk page. The edits that Mathsci opposes from Miradre are on topics as diverse as the possible over-representation of liberals in academia, a book by the psychologist ], and public radio broadcasting. The only common theme to these edits is that regardless of where Miradre goes on Misplaced Pages, or what sorts of articles he edits, he can always count on Mathsci following him there and opposing him. | |||
- Warning from other editor about repeated removal of content when multiple users are objecting. | |||
There are a few other ways that I think Mathsci’s behavior towards Miradre could be considered harassment: | |||
- Warning from yet another editor about not assuming good faith and making personal attacks | |||
*Mathsci’s habit of ] when Miradre attempts to remove them. For example , , or . (Note the threatening edit summary in the last diff.) | |||
*In addition to that edit summary, there have been a few other examples of Mathsci trying to intimidate Miradre by threatening him with a community ban, such as and . | |||
*This isn't the only example of Mathsci being uncivil towards Miradre, but it might be the best one: | |||
*As I understand it, this last exchange (“Please respect my privacy”, and Mathsci’s reaction) is referring to another type of harassment that Mathsci has directed at Miradre, which is publicly posting . that Mathsci claims belongs to Miradre lists its owner’s real name on its main page, so this is an indirect way that Mathsci has '''revealed what he thinks is Miradre’s real name'''. | |||
*Mathsci has also continued to bring up Miradre’s alleged location in subsequent content disputes, even though Miradre has never voluntarily disclosed this information. | |||
It seems to be chronic which suggests behavior problems. Tinynanorobots also frequently fails to assume good faith in others. I don't know why as I don't have any issues with him. | |||
Does it require any explanation what’s wrong with this? Anybody who’s been a Wikipedian for as long as Mathsci must be aware that it isn’t acceptable to try and intimidate another editor by posting private information about them, and that the request | |||
“please respect my privacy” from that editor should be responded to with something other than “Ha, ha, ha, ha.” More importantly, Mathsci has ]. I think in the past year I’ve improved on the behavior for which I was sanctioned in the R&I case (edit warring, etc.) but when I compare Mathsci’s behavior over the past month to the behavior described in his finding of fact, I don’t see any improvement. | |||
Their preferred edit for Yasuke against the RFC consensus is lead section. | |||
@] Sorry for the confusion. I think we talking about different edits, so I'll adjust that part. I am referring to Tinynanorobot's repeated removal of {{tq|As a samurai}} against RFC consensus, which states {{tq|There exists a consensus to refer to Yasuke as a samurai without qualification}}. | |||
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; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
I don’t have a strong opinion one way or another about the quality of Miradre’s editing, so the purpose of this post isn’t to defend him. However, I think that Mathsci’s recent behavior is problematic enough that admins should consider the application of ] here. Perhaps the most appropriate response to this thread would be for Miradre and Mathsci to both be sanctioned. | |||
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
===Discussion concerning Tinynanorobots=== | |||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | |||
====Statement by Tinynanorobots==== | |||
The accusations made by EE are so misleading as to be evidence against him. Most of what he is discussing is in reference to a successful BRD. I actually discussed the bold edit first on the talk, but didn't get much of a response. I decided a bold edit would get more feedback. The edits were reverted and then discussed. Gitz's main problem was OR, not a RfC violation. This was because he didn't read the cited source. {{tq|Anyway, since Atkin says "signifying bushi status", I have no objection to restoring this text.}} | |||
I never used any sarcasm, I know that some languages handle how they talk about time differently. It seems reasonable that a translation error could be the reason for EE asking me not to change the article, althoug my edit had already been restored by someone else and at the same time asking me to discuss that I had already discussed and was already discussing. I am disappointed that EE didn't point out that he felt attacked, so that I could apologize. | |||
I’m aware that in the past Mathsci has been a valuable editor because of his useful contributions to articles about math and classical music. However, according to his comment , as of the beginning of this year Mathsci has lost interest in making contributions to articles. Looking at all of his recent contributions, his exclusive focus now is on pursuing the editors that he regards as his adversaries. This is after several arbitrators already told him ] that he should cease his involvement in the R&I topic area. Quoting what Roger Davies said to Mathsci there: “I expressed the hope in the motion lifting the topic restriction that you'd walk away entirely from R&I-related issues. This is because I do not believe that participants in cases are the best people to push for enforcement as it only opens old wounds (as has happened here). If another editor's conduct is egregious enough, it will be noted by other - less involved - editors, who can initiate appropriate action. That advice still stands and I urge you to follow it.” | |||
This was written in response to another user, and the whole thought is {{tq|I don't know if samurai is the right term. It is the term a fair amount of sources use, and the one that the RfC says should be used. It is also consistent with common usage in reference to other historical figures.}} In fact earlier in that post I said this: {{tq|I am not qualified to say whither or not Yasuke having a house meant that he was a samurai}} This is blatantly taking a quote out of context in order to prejudice the Admins against me. | |||
I should reiterate what my reason is for caring about this: even though Mathsci has mostly left me alone since his attempt to get me site-banned in February, his e-mail to me on June 30th makes it as clear as possible that this is only a temporary respite from him until I attempt to appeal my topic ban. Therefore, it is almost certain that in the future I’ll once again have to put up with the behavior he’s currently directing at Miradre, unless something is done to stop it. It would be beneficial to the community if Mathsci could somehow be encouraged to stop defying the instructions he was given by Roger Davies, and go back to making useful edits on math and music articles. I don’t have a strong opinion about how that should be accomplished, but I think admins should consider the suggestion that Ludwigs2 made in the amendment thread linked above: that Mathsci be placed under a restriction that disallows him from commenting on the behavior of other editors. | |||
:@] I filed here, because the last time I filed at ANI it was suggested that I bring things here if things continue by an Admin. I try to follow advice, although I keep getting conflicting signals from Admins. I am most concerned that you find my work on ] and ] not adding anything helpful. My suggestion to rewrite the way samurai was defined on the List in order to reduce OR and bring it in line with WP:LSC was meant with unanimous approval by those who responded. Samurai is a high importance article that has tags on it from years back, is unorganized and contains outdated information. I am not the best writer, but I have gotten some books, and am pretty much the only one working on it. | |||
'''Update 8/16''': Can any admins see the edit summary in ? This edit summary was the most recent example of outing from Mathsci, but it’s apparently been oversighted now. I saw what the edit summary said before it got overisghted, but I’m assuming that I shouldn’t repeat it here, because the whole point of content being oversighted is to make it not visible anymore. If any admins can access this edit summary, I think it’s Mathsci’s most blatant policy violation in this thread—although the fact that it’s been oversighted probably makes that obvious, since oversight isn’t used for run-of-the-mill personal attacks. | |||
::I just thought that the Admins here should know about the ongoing SPI | |||
;Response to EdJohnston:It was a request for clarification, not a formal motion, and it's ]. In other words, an actual modification wasn’t necessy, because ArbCom decided that my topic ban hadn’t been intended to extend to AE in the first place. When Ferahgo’s and my topic bans were extended by you and Timothy Canens in ], the extension made a specific exception for AE because of this request for clarification. The instruction to not post about others’ behavior at AE was listed under the heading “The following is advice, and it is not compulsory”. The diff of where you included this exception is . --] (]) 23:05, 9 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Relm==== | |||
;Additional comments:As I said above, I don’t have a strong opinion one way or another about the quality of Miradre’s content editing, and it may be that there are some legitimate POV problems with it. However, it’s important to understand that this isn’t just an issue of Mathsci following Miradre from one article to another. What makes this a problem is that it’s being combined with other types of behavior that can also be considered harassment, such as restoring his deleted comments in Miradre’s user talk, trying to intimidate Miradre by posting as personal information about him, and responding with incivility when Miradre asks Mathsci to respect his privacy. These are the specific things that cause Mathsci’s behavior to rise to the level of what I consider harassment, although it certainly makes it worse that there doesn’t appear to be anywhere on Wikipeda that Miradre can go to escape from this. | |||
I am the editor alluded to and quoted as 'protesting' Tinynanorobots edit. When I originally made that topic, I was fixing a different edit which left the first sentence as a grammatically incomplete sentence. When I looked at it in the editing view, one of the quotes in the citation beforehand was quoting Atkins Vera, and I mistook this for the opening quote having been changed. When I closed the editing menu I saw 'signifying samurai status' in the second paragraph and confused the two for each other as I had not noticed the addition of the latter phrase a little under a month ago. I realized my mistake almost immediately after I posted the new topic, and made this () edit to clarify my mistake while also attempting to instead direct the topic towards making sure that the edit recieved sufficient assent from Gitz (it did) and to talk about improvements that could be made to the opening sentence. I further clarified and made clear that I was not accusing Tinynanorobots of having done anything wrong in a later response (). | |||
Though many of their earlier edits on the page may show some issues, as they grew more familiar with the past discussions I believe that Tinynanorobots has made valuable contributions to the page in good faith. ] (]) 03:21, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
==== |
====Statement by Barkeep49==== | ||
*:@] I think this misinterprets the ArbCom decision. So Yakuse is a contentious topic ''and'' it has a 1RR restriction, in the same way as say PIA. As in PIA administrators can sanction behavior that violates the ] besides 1RR. Beyond that, editing ] is a finding of fact from the case. ] (]) 16:25, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
I won't comments specifically on the R&I arbitration. However, I have yet to see Mirardre make a well-researched NPOV contribution to an article. I do not think Mirardre fits the bill of "single-purpose editor" but she is one step away. At the Race and Intelligence article, it turned out that the most persistent arguments that blacks are inherently inferior to whites in intelligence came from people promoting evolutionary psychology, which took Mirardre to EP articles. Then it emerged that one of the established academic disciplines most critical of EP is anthropology, which took Mirardre to Anthropology articles. I just spent the past few days undoing Mirardre's ] to various anthropology articles (in short: Mirardre found one journal article that had a comment to it that encouraged dialogue between anthropology between EP and anthropology. ''On the basis of this <u>comment</u> '''alone''''', EP added a whole new section to each article on the importance of EP within anthropology. Do I have to tell you how many peer-review articles are published on anthropology each year? Imagine if, for each article, we created ''a new section in the encyclopedia article''! And Mirardre was not even drawing on the article, but on a comment to an article. Note: academics do not list such comments on their CVs because they are not peer-reviewed (whether Mirardre doesn't know this fact or knows it but disregards it, either way it suggests she is not qualified to edit on academic topics. I deleted the addition because it gave undue weight to a fringe view, and from an inappropriate source. | |||
The really troubling thing is this: the article itself was an interesting article on the nature-culture divide, and was accompanied by several comments. I pointed out to Miradre that there are a number of other articles on this theme, and that she could draw on these different articles and write a very informative and appropriate section on emerging new approaches to nature-culture in anthropology. I was trying to take Mirardre's edit, and make a good-faith effort to consider what kind of work would lead to a genuinely positive edit, and give Mirardre constructive feedback. Mirardre just changed topics. | |||
====Statement by (username)==== | |||
Mirardre then went on to argu that a whole chapter of a current textbook on cultural anthropology is about EP. Again, my concern was, how to turn a source into an imporovement to our article, and I asked Mirardre to summarize the chapter. Mirardre became evasive, and refused to discuss the contents of the chapter, insisting that the important point is that there is a whole chapter.] Mirardre's claim and discovered that there is no such chapter. As Matchsci demonstrated, the topic occupied two pages in a 450 page book. Then Maunus found the textbook, read it, and discovered that the textbook "describes EP as a discipline that 'impinges on cultural anthropology.'" | |||
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===Result concerning Tinynanorobots=== | |||
From this, we can see the following: | |||
*Mirardre does not have the reading comprehension level of a college student (the audeicne for the textbook) | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
*Mirardre misrepresents sources in order to promote Mirardre's views | |||
*Mirardre gets upset when other editors actually know more than her | |||
I admit that this discussion ''on the surface'' is not about race and intelligence, but if you go back to the attempted mediation at R&I by Ludwigs, and subsequent arguments there, anthropology was consistently deprecated by advocates of EP in scholarly debates over race and intelligence. | |||
* As above, I'm failing to see what exactly is against the ArbCom case rulings - I don't see a 1RR violation. But also as above, I'm coming to the view that neither of these editors are adding anything helpful to the topic area and am leaning towards a topic ban for both. ] (]) 14:35, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
A final comment on MathSci, whose editing has been impugned. It is true that MathScie has written a great many articles for WP, all impeccably sourced and well-written. It is true that he does not write as many new articles any more. I do not either. That is because my job requires m to write articles for which I will get credit, and WP does not count. I cannot speak for MathSci but I think a minimum requirement for an editor of an encyclopedia is the ability to comprehend that volunteer editors have more pressing and time-consuming obligations that mean they contribute erratically. We must judge MathSci not by the frequency of his edits by by their quality. I just went into some detail about an exchange on a talk page because this is the kind of contribution Captain Occam deprecates. Yet here we see that MathSci's contribution was exemplary and in fact just the kind of talk page contribution WP depends if it is to exist: Matchsci provided the evidence that Mirardre lied about there being a whole chapter on EP; MathSci provided the evidence that Mirardre was violating WEIGHT; along with Maunus MathSci demonstrated that Mirardre misrepresented the source. Were Mirardre left to her own devices we would have articles with lots of sources - but the articles would be poorly written, misrepresent the sources, even lie about them, and misrepresent scholarly debates. I have tried to work collaboratively with Mirardre and Mirardre has shown no interest in real research. Until Mirardre is banned, ''someone'' will have to check every source she cites, and correct her mistakes. This is a takes MathSci has assumed. He (and Maunus) deserves our praise and thanks for this ] | ] 09:59, 10 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
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=====Comment by Itsmejudith===== | |||
I don't have much time to edit right now, but would just like to say in reference to comments above that Maunus and SlRubenstein are real experts in social science topics, while Miradre, as far as I can see actually is working like an SPA. His/her level of English is poor too, so when s/he adds large amounts of content, other people have to clean up afterwards. There seems to be a lack of understanding of how to summarise from academic texts, as opposed to direct quoting. ] (]) 14:26, 11 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
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==Selfstudier== | |||
====Comment by Maunus==== | |||
{{hat|1={{nobold|1=No evidence of misconduct was presented. Filer ] is informally warned against frivolous filings. <span style="font-family:courier"> -- ]</span><sup class="nowrap">[]]</sup> <small>(])</small> 02:36, 19 December 2024 (UTC)}}}}} | |||
I would like to say that given Miradre's past and current behavior it is fully justified, indeed necessarry that editors who are aware of his history review his edits to almost any page that he might edit. He is clearly agenda driven in the large majority of his edits - wikipedia cannot afford to let that go unsupervised. There is a difference between hounding and actually watching out for potential content problems based on documented experience with certain editors editing patterns. ]·] 01:07, 10 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> | |||
=== |
===Request concerning Selfstudier=== | ||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Allthemilescombined1}} 02:43, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
I'd like to second Maunus's comments. I'm not going to suggest that any of us can ever approach Misplaced Pages with a truly neutral POV (I don't believe that such a thing exists), but I think that Miradre not only edits in such a way at to push a particular POV beyond any acceptable limits, but that also, from the evidence offered, actually goes out of his/her way to find ways to do so, knowing that this will provoke a response. Frankly, I see no way that this attitude can be seen as compatible with Misplaced Pages's objectives. If Miradre wishes to change public opinion, and/or the opinions of academia regarding issues of race, heredity, and related issues, fine - that is his/her right - just not here, and not in the belligerent manner exhibited. ] (]) 02:50, 10 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Selfstudier}}<p>{{ds/log|Selfstudier}}</p> | |||
:I see that Miradre writes above: "Currently one focus for me is improving Misplaced Pages's articles on evolutionary psychology subjects which also include the application in anthropology. That is a sensitive subject for some anthropologists who reject evolutionary psychology". Given that ''almost all'' anthropologists 'reject evolutionary psychology' (or does Miradre have evidence to the contrary?), such 'improvements' are nothing of the kind - they are instead attempts to apply undue weight to theories of little relevance to the topic in question. This is further evidence of Miradre's endless POV pushing and general combative attitude. ] (]) 13:26, 11 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
::And now Miradre responds by claiming to have 'cited evidence' in ] regarding the significance of evolutionary psychology to the subject. Fine. Except that the 'evidence' turned out to be almost entirely based on misrepresentation of the sources - again proving precisely the point I made. ] (]) 13:57, 11 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: | |||
:::"Slrubenstein is another anthropologist ideologically opposed to evolutionary psychology". And yet again, Miradre insinuates that any attempt to point out that the overwhelming consensus within cultural/social anthropology is that evolutionary psychology is of limited significance to the subject is based on 'ideology' - a highly dubious proposition, entirely lacking evidence. Anyone remotely familiar with the often-heated discourse within social/cultural anthropology will find the proposition that there is a common ideology laughable. Still, insinuations of bias are easy to make, and have the advantage that you don't have to offer evidence. Not directly related to this AR/E discussion, of course, except in that it may indicate why ''any'' topic ban is going to fail as long as Miradre persists with this battleground mentality and endless search for new articles to promote an ideologically motivated (yeah, I can do it too...) biological determinist perspective in subjects where such perspectives are fringe, if not entirely irrelevant.] (]) 15:11, 12 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
] | |||
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | |||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | |||
:::::And a response to Memills (below): are you going to offer any evidence to back up your suggestions that those commenting here have 'another agenda', or are you just going to leave it hanging, like the vacuous insinuation it is? ] (]) 14:17, 13 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.--> | |||
# Concern for ] violation when Selfstudier told me on my talk page: “enough now.This is a warning to cease and desist with the WP:ASPERSIONS and general unhelpfulness at the Zionism article.” | |||
# Selfstudier dismissed my source {{ISBN|9798888459683}}, with “Bernard-Henri Lévy is not an expert on Zionism or colonialism”. | |||
# Selfstudier dismissed my source Adam Kirsch {{ISBN|978-1324105343}} “does not appear to be an expert in Zionism or Settler colonial studies but is apparently well known for a pro Israel viewpoint". These dismissive comments are uncivil. | |||
# Concerning for possible ] and ] violations. Editors with one POV swarmed RM:6 December 2024 and closed it immediately for SNOW. Selfstudier immediately archived parts of this discussion, including my comments, while leaving the parts that supported their POV. | |||
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : | |||
::::::And while Memills is at it, what the heck is an 'anti-biological POV'? ] (]) 02:16, 14 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
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;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]): | |||
====Comment by Memills==== | |||
<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. --> | |||
*Otherwise made edits indicating an awareness of the contentious topic. | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | |||
The concept of a "construct" has a long history in science, long before Gould. Nor is it limited to studies of intelligence; the term "construct" is used in many, if not most, areas of science. See the relevant WP article: ]. That several editors above think that it only applies to intelligence is rather shocking. Rather, given the very strong anti-biological POVs of these editors, I suspect another agenda. | |||
On I/P topics, my edits on numerous occasions have been reverted almost immediately, by Selfstudier and their fellow editors who seem to be always hanging around I/P, and "owning" the topic area. They are creating a hostile editing environment and are violating NPOV. | |||
Concerns for possible ] and ] violations: | |||
The editors criticizing Miradre fail to note that there was previous discussion on the Talk page about moving the "reification fallacy" subsection, ''as well as other sections,'' and was initiated by several other editors (not Miradre), (see and ). The rationale for the move was that many of the criticisms of evolutionary psychology are actually more germane to the ] page than to evolutionary psychology in particular. The editors above who label evolutionary psychology as "genetic determinism," and/or who suggest that editors who are trying to accurately describe evolutionary psychology are "promoting" it, betray a strong anti-biological POV. | |||
*Abo Yemen dismissed my reasoned arguments as “feelings”: | |||
The attempt to associate moving the "reification fallacy" subsection with the topic of intelligence (to snag Miradre) is a red herring. It seems to me to be a POV-motivated attempt to harass and silence an editor with whom they philosophically disagree. ] (]) 05:36, 13 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
*RolandR dismissed the author of "Saying No to Hate: Overcoming Antisemitism in America", {{ISBN|978-0827615236}}, as a “non-notable children’s writer”: | |||
====Comment by Boothello==== | |||
*Zero told me “We should stick to history books and not cite emotional polemics”. | |||
It's a shame that more uninvolved people haven't shown up to offer their opinion on Miradre's editing. So far everyone criticizing him seem to be R&I regulars who followed him to other topics after he was topic banned (well, except for Itsmejudith who was recruited by Mathsci specifically to oppose Miradre ). We could get a clearer picture about whether Miradre's editing has been a problem if some of the editors active on other articles he edits (like, from the looks of it, psychology and public broadcasting etc) would post, instead of just the core group of editors who have historically opposed him on R&I and then followed him elsewhere. | |||
Concerns for possible ] and ] violations: | |||
For the record, I think there are some issues with Miradre's editing. The biggest one I've seen is his long, circular, and often off-topic arguments with other editors (Mathsci in particular) on talk pages. See a recent typical example of this . This began as a question of whether Memills has a COI by commenting here as Mathsci and then . This quickly devolved into an argument about whether it was a personal attack when Mathsci said that Miradre's arguments "are like those of a small child." Two uninvolved editors, Olyeller21 and Atama, complained there about how Miradre and Mathsci tend to waste other editors' time with this endless bickering. | |||
*Smallangryplanet accused me of WP:SYNTH and reverted my edits as irrelevant to the article on Holocaust inversion: whereas the article, prior to vandalism, resembled: | |||
I think Mathsci is more at fault here than Miradre. In my own experience I've seen that it is possible to resolve content disputes with Miradre, it just takes some effort and patience. On the other hand I've found that reasoned discussion with Mathsci is often impossible. Mathsci does not comment on the talk pages of R&I articles, apparently because he has promised ArbCom not to, so whenever he disagrees with one of my edits he responds with threats and accusations in my user talk. | |||
*Nableezy added that the only material that can be relevant to the aforementioned article is that which compares Israel to Nazi Germany, ignoring that such comparisons are antisemitic. | |||
*Some examples of Mathsci accusing me of colluding with other editors: Note his comment "This strategy of tracking a single editor is ill-advised" yet he has no problem doing the same thing to Miradre. | |||
*Levivich asked me “Why are these academic sources relevant to the discussion? How did you select them?” and added “I won’t bother reading the other two, I'll assume they also say the same thing that everybody else says.” (referring to Katz, Segev, and Goren) | |||
*Some examples of Mathsci commenting to threaten me with sanctions: | |||
*Valeree wrote “If you'll read this talk page rather thoroughly so that you can bring yourself up to speed, you'll probably find fewer editors making sarcastic remarks about your suggestions.” | |||
*Some examples of Mathsci continuing to comment in my user talk after I asked him to stop: | |||
Concerns for possible ] violations: | |||
Two things worth noting here. First is the sheer quantity of this: nearly half of all revisions to my talk page are from Mathsci. Secondly, this is literally the entirety of my interaction with him. Never have I interacted with him on talk pages or articles, I have no prior history with him, and did not even know who he was until he started threatening me in my user talk. Based on my experience and observation, Mathsci has virtually no interest in collaborative discussions about content. When he disagrees with anyone's edits, he generally just resorts to belittlement, accusations, and threats.] (]) 06:51, 16 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
*Sean.hoyland accused me of “advocacy and the expression of your personal views about the real world” and told me to see MOS:TERRORIST and accused me of violating WP:NOTFORUM and WP:NOTADVOCACY: | |||
====Comments on disruption of this request by ipsocks of Mikemikev==== | |||
{{collapse top|collapsed for readability}} | |||
''These comments originally followed Captain Occam's comments about two edit summaries removed by oversight.'' | |||
:(No apologies for posting here.) This edit summary was removed by oversight as a result of an email request by me. It was Fred Bauder who responded to my request. Prior to that I made a request to LHVU and several arbitrators, who are completely aware of this situation. In the meantime an antisemitic rant has been deleted on the user page of an ipsock of the same editor, {{userlinks|Mikemikev}}. At present a complete range of IPs has been blocked for a month at ] as a result of these and similar edits by Mikemikev. In view of his postings from his account at that university, which incited racial hatred, completely contrary to the conditions of use of such university accounts (and also the laws in the ]), it is possible that an official complaint is lodged with the computer services at ICL. ] (]) 16:40, 16 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
*Sameboat wrote: "Please take extra attention to this recent ECU whose edits to I-P articles look rather deceptive to me". | |||
::So you’re saying that you asked Fred Bauder to oversight your own edit summary? (Anyone who looks at this diff can see that the edit summary in question was from you, not from Mikemikev.) What makes this even stranger is that it was oversighted immediately after I asked someone else to oversight it. I hope you won’t mind me checking with the relevant people to verify this. --] (]) 17:08, 16 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
Concerns for possible ] violations: | |||
:::Yes, I sent an email to oversight. There were two OTRS tickets, 2011081210004067 and 2011081210004625. Fred Bauder wrote a reply to me in the first official response: "I suppressed two edit comments as disclosures of personal information. Sincerely, Fred Bauder." (I had previously contacted individually LHVU, Newyorkbrad, Elen of the Roads and Casliber.) That is the normal process. Mikemikev's real life name is not a secret since he identified himself in one of his first edits to wikipedia. Some of his posts on wikipedia and elsewhere (on Stormfront for example) have contained undiluted incitements to racial hatred. That is why he is community banned. Here is a selection of what he has recently written on video internet sites. ] (]) 17:28, 16 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
*Sameboat wrote on my talk page about Gaza genocide, though they were not involved in the earlier discussion, warning me about WP:NOTFORUM RM:6 December 2024. | |||
::::Based on that diff you gave above there is certainly no clear evidence that the person named in that diff is the IP editor or if he is that he wants his identity outed to the world. You also makes accusations that can have very serious real-world consequences. There is certainly no excuse for the outing of your identity, whoever is doing it, but that does not justify you on dubious grounds outing other people with accusations than have potential serious consequences.] (]) 18:40, 16 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:::::If you have complaints of any sort about the rights of Mikemikev and the ipsocks that he uses, I suggest you address those complaints directly to checkusers and oversighters (including members of ArbCom) who help keep the sockpuppets accounts of this highly problematic user under control. At the moment, you seem to be condoning accounts that have been blocked as confirmed sockpuppets of Mikemikev. Please don't do that, even if it is unintentional, as it is highly offensive. Thanks, ] (]) 19:25, 16 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
::::::I have no complaints regarding the block of the ipsocks and I do not support the actions they have done. But in effect naming a specific person based on that dubious diff, and in addition making serious accusations that may have real-world consequences against that named person, do is very offensive. Especially strange considering your own complaints regarding outing. ] (]) 19:35, 16 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
::::::::I can't remember if there was more than one request, but I thought the request by Mathsci to suppress that inappropriate edit summary was righteous, so did it. Protecting an editor is not a proper reason for suppression; there were other appropriate reasons. Most of the arbitrators can view it and discuss it, if need be. ] ] 19:45, 16 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::Yes, I sent the request twice, because I left out a diff in the first email. Mikemikev is the only user who has used that range of IPs for editing wikipedia. Using another IP in the range he had posted a racist attack page, now deleted at my request. The whole range has been blocked for one month by HelloAnnyong. 19:52, 16 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
::::::::::There were no dubious diffs; the whole range of the first IP who posted here was blocked following an SPI report for Mikemikev. The two ranges of IPs 146.179.212.* and 146.179.213.* from ] have been used exclusively by Mikemikev for editing wikipedia and, from August 2010, for evading his ArbCom ban/community ban. He has disrupted this page recently with his trademark attacks ("hysterical faggotry"/"faggotry"). Some of the postings from the second range of IPs just used contain his signature. This is another typical posting from that range. ] (]) 07:50, 17 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::::The IP range was not my point. The point being that you have above (in your 17:28, 16 August 2011 edit) in effect named a specific living person as being responsible on very dubious grounds. Based on that diff you gave there is certainly no clear evidence that the person named in that diff is the IP editor or if he is that he wants his identity outed to the world. It may well be someone unrelated (or an acquaintance) to the named person and who dislikes that university who made that edit. The story may also just be a form of subtle vandalism. In addition, you makes serious accusations against this named person which may have serious real-life consequences. Especially strange considering your own complaints regarding outing.] (]) 08:41, 17 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
::::::::::::Systematic long-term abuse of wikipedia—the posting of racist comments and attacks—could result in an official complaint from WMF. That is certainly within policy. Mikemikev self-identified on wikipedia. ] (]) 08:56, 17 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::::::As already stated, there was certainly no clear self-identification. Again, I find is strange considering your own complaints regarding outing that you yourself in effect name others on very dubious grounds and in addition with accusations with possibly serious real-life consequences. ] (]) 09:02, 17 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
::::::::::::::Your suggestion that people at Imperial College, London are "impersonating Mikemikev" is not even vaguely probable since all the editing is similar. Sockpuppet investigations do not work in that way, nor does ]. Your concerns about an editor who systemastically uses wikipedia for inciting racial hatred seem disingenuous. A little while back I asked Newyorkbrad in private about the problem posed by Mikemikev's sockpuppetry and I believe that that matter is still under discussion. Thanks,] (]) 09:14, 17 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::::::::<s>Maybe he can get Yahweh to come and deal with the wicked racist goyim. ] (]) 09:26, 17 August 2011 (UTC)</s> | |||
::::::::::::::::Is this one of those ICL people "impersonating Mikemikev", or is it possibly the real thing? ] (]) 09:30, 17 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::::::::::Do no misrepresent me. The point being that you have on dubious grounds in effect named a specific living person as being responsible. ] (]) 09:39, 17 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
::::::::::::::::::The real life identity of Mikemikev is known to arbitrators. You have chosen to ignore the antisemitic remarks above. Instead you appear to be continuing to attack me in a disingenuous way. Please see ]. Thanks, ] (]) 09:48, 17 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::::::::::::Mathsci, This is '''my own section''' of this thread, not yours. You shouldn’t have commented here instead of in your own section to begin with, and I especially don’t want you using my section as a place to argue with Miradre about Mikemikev socks. If you don’t stop commenting here, I’m going to move this entire thread (beginning with your first reply to me) up to your own section above, which is where it should have been in the first place. --] (]) 09:59, 17 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
Selected examples of my edits which were reverted within hours or minutes (this list is far from comprehensive): | |||
::::::::::::::::::::There are no rules about subthreads here. I have already made a private complaint to three arbitrators about your comments above. Like Miradre, please see ]. Thanks, ] (]) 10:04, 17 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
* by Butterscotch Beluga claiming vandalism against a University of Michigan regent was irrelevant to pro-Palestine protests because it happened off campus; | |||
* by Zero arguing that an egregious antisemitic incident 'fails WP:WEIGHT by a mile' | |||
* by Abo Yemen removing my additions to Palestinian perspectives comparing Israel to Nazi Germany from a section on exactly that; along with and by Smallangryplanet; | |||
* by AlsoWukai removing the disappearance of the ]'s $31 million debt when South Africa accused Israel of genocide. | |||
In summary, I have experienced a pattern of consistent, and what appears to be organized, intimidation from a small group of editors. | |||
:::::::::::::::::::::OK, so you apparently aren't willing to stop posting in my section. At AE, everyone has the right to move comments in their section by another editor to that editor's own section, so I'm doing that now. --] (]) 10:16, 17 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
{{collapse bottom}} | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
===Result concerning Miradre=== | |||
<!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.--> | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.'' | |||
*I hope that ] can supply a diff to the place where Arbcom modified his ban to allow him to comment at Arbitration Enforcement in R&I requests where his own edits have not been mentioned. This Arbcom action would, I assume, have been a formal motion. Lacking such evidence, I urge him to cease commenting here. The only edits being reviewed in this AE are those of Miradre and possibly Mathsci. (Mathsci's own edits are subject to review since he is the submitter). ] (]) 22:46, 9 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
::OK, per the Captain's response, I agree that his previous topic ban allows him to comment at AE. Should the admins here decide that his posts are not helpful, they might comment on that or take action on that when this report closes. ] (]) 23:26, 9 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
===Discussion concerning Selfstudier=== | |||
I was asked to come here to look over this request for enforcement. I don't normally get involved in arbitration enforcement, but this request has sat for weeks without any action. I'm uninvolved and an administrator, so I figured that I might as well give this a shot. | |||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | |||
====Statement by Selfstudier==== | |||
There is a lot of discussion about this topic, but I think I can cut it down simply. Essentially, Miradre has been involved in the ] article, and has edited the article as recently as a week ago. He is currently topic-banned under the discretionary sanctions proposed at ], per 2/0's decision, and the ban will not expire until early October. So the only question that needs to be asked, is whether or not the article in question falls under the ARBR&I ban. | |||
====Statement by Sean.hoyland==== | |||
Let me repeat what the actual ban covers, to clear up any misconceptions. The initial arbitration case was titled "Race and Intelligence", but the ban covers "the intersection of race/ethnicity and human abilities and behaviour, broadly construed". | |||
I see I've been mentioned but not pinged. That's nice. I encourage anyone to look at the diffs and . Why are there editors in the topic area apparently ignoring ] and ]? It's a mystery. It is, and has always been, one of the root causes of instability in the topic area and wastes so much time. Assigning a cost to advocacy might reduce it. Either way, it needs to be actively suppressed by enforcement of the ] policy. It's a rule, not an aspiration. ] (]) 15:23, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Butterscotch Beluga==== | |||
Looking at the article, it's quite clear that human abilities and behavior are part of the article, specifically psychology itself, the discussion of IQ and personality traits in the "reification" section, the adaptability of human behavioral traits, and so on. In addition, those are intersected with ''ethnicity'' quite clearly, there is even a section on Ethnocentricism. | |||
I didn't say it was ''"irrelevant to pro-Palestine protests"'' as a whole. The edit I reverted was specifically at ], so as I said, the ''"Incident did not occur at a university campus so is outside the scope of this article"''. We have other articles like ] & more specifically ] that are more in scope of your proposed edit. - ] (]) 20:52, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Huldra==== | |||
That means that the article clearly falls under the topic ban, and given the clear intention to "push the boudaries" as demonstrated above, I don't see that this is an isolated incident. Therefore, I am blocking Miradre for the maximum of one month, as recommended at ]. -- ''']'''] 18:49, 30 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
I wish the filer would have wiki-linked names, then you would easily have seen that ] "is not an expert on Zionism or colonialism”, or that ] “does not appear to be an expert in Zionism or Settler colonial studies but is apparently well known for a pro Israel viewpoint", ] (]) 22:11, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
{{hab}} | |||
====Statement by RolandR==== | |||
== Vecrumba == | |||
I too have been mentioned above, and complained about, but not been notified. If this is not a breach of Misplaced Pages regulations, then it ought to be. | |||
As for the substance, I see that I am accused of describing ] as a "non-notable children’s writer". Norman H. Finkelstein was indeed a children's writer, as described in most reports and obituaries. At the time of the original edit and my revert, he was not considered sufficiently notable to merit a Misplaced Pages article; it was only a week later that the OP created an article, of which they have effectively been the only editor. So I stand by my characterisation, which is an accurate and objective description of the author. | |||
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.'' | |||
Further, I was concerned that a casual reader might be led to confuse this writer with the highly significant writer ]; in fact, I made my edit after ] had made this mistake and linked the cited author to the genuinely notable person. | |||
===Request concerning Vecrumba=== | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : ] <sup>]</sup> 13:46, 24 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
This whole report, and the sneaky complaints about me and other editors, is entirely worthless and should be thrown out. | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Vecrumba}} | |||
<span style="font-family: Papyrus">] (])</span> 22:29, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
====Statement by Zero0000==== | |||
by OP is illustrative. It is just a presentation of personal belief with weak or irrelevant sources. I don't see evidence of an ability to contribute usefully. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 00:31, 14 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Sameboat==== | |||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] | |||
It is clear that the filer has failed to understand my message, which was a warning about repeated violations of the NotForum policy. Instead, they have misinterpreted my actions, as well as those of others, as part of a coordinated "tag team." I raised my concerns on ] after the filer's edit on the ] article regarding its controversy, which failed to properly attribute the information to its source—the Israeli government. This filing is a complete waste of time, and serious sanctions should be imposed on the filer if similar issues occur again in the future. -- ] (] · ]) 02:17, 14 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | |||
====Statement by AlsoWukai==== | |||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | |||
Contrary to the filer's complaint, I never made an edit "removing the disappearance of the ANC's $31 million debt when South Africa accused Israel of genocide." I can only conclude that the filer misread the edit history. ] (]) 20:55, 14 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. --> | |||
# Vecrumba's words are clearly commenting directly on myself as an editor, rather than focusing on content. His words all but accuse me of being antagonistic in Baltic topics (as opposed to often presenting a POV which others neglect to add at the beginning); his words also all but accuse me of being a troll (rather than a long-term editor in good standing); his words also all but accuse me of being petty; his words also assume bad faith on my part (although he states he AGF); his words also paint a negative appearance of myself, rather than focusing on content. | |||
====Statement by Valereeee==== | |||
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) : | |||
The diff allthemiles links to above is me responding to their post (in which they complained about a mildly sarcastic remark by another editor) where they said, "If respectful discussion is not possible, administrative involvement will be needed." I've been trying to keep up at that article talk, so I responded giving them my take on it. | |||
<!-- Many arbitration remedies require a prior warning before sanctions may be imposed. Link to the warning here. --> | |||
As per ] Vecrumba has been blocked 3 times for breaching this interaction ban. | |||
I tried to keep engaging, trying to help them understand the challenges for less experienced editors trying to work in the topic, offering advice on how they could get up to speed at that particular article, even offering to continue the discussion at their talk or mine. ] (]) 14:29, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : Vecrumba's breach of the topic ban is somewhat inflammatory, as it has nothing to do with content, but rather it is a direct personal attack on myself. The by ] at Vecrumba's last personal attack on myself are still current it appears (and he was blocked for 3 weeks for that attack). | |||
<!-- Add any further comment here --> | |||
:@], editors working in PIA are brought here often and bring other editors here often for various reasons, and it doesn't always mean a given editor is problematic. For instance, the particular appearance you're referring to was brought here by a suspected sock of an LTA. I've seen admins working here who don't work in PIA wonder if the fact someone is brought here often or brings others here often means that editor is a problem, and I get why it feels like some issue ''with that editor'' has to be a factor, but in my experience it isn't usually. Some of the best editors working in that area are brought here for spurious reasons, and also need to bring other editors here for valid reasons. And some of the worst offenders there avoid AE. ] (]) 11:45, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request, and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. --> | |||
===Result concerning Selfstudier=== | |||
; Response to Canens : In light of the fact that the article in question was started in 2008, and was seen by way of being a "see also" on ], there is no interaction breach by my nominating for AfD an article which in good faith I believe is not notable enough for inclusion on WP. Note in everything I have written about the article in question, I have not made a single comment about the editor, but have concentrated purely on content, as per advice given by an arbiter at ] -- at no stage was my nomination driven by who created it, but it is concentrated purely upon content. I have even stated on the record that any editor under an interaction ban with myself is welcome to comment on anything and everything, so long as they concentrate on content only, as per advice of Carcaroth. | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
* While I'm on record as saying that the topic area could us more civility from editors, I'm failing to see anything actionable against the editor filed against here. There's an edit from Oct that isn't great but not even begining to get into my "not civil" category. Then there's a perfectly civil statement about a source from 3 Nov (Hint - "Bernard-Henri Lévy is not an expert on Zionism or colonialism" is exactly the type of discussion that SHOULD be taking place in a contentious topic - it's focused on the source and does not mention any editors at all. The full comment "There is nothing to suggest Bernard-Henri Lévy is an expert on Zionism or colonialism. As I said, it is rather simple to find a source saying what you want it to say, whether that's a WP:BESTSOURCE is another matter." is still quite civil and focused on the source - nothing in this is worth of sanctioning....) The other statement from 3 Nov is also focused on the merits of the source. The fact that it isn't agreeing with your source analysis does not make it dismissive nor uncivil. Frankly, it's quite civil and again, what is expected in a contentious topic - source-based discussion. The comment from 6 Dec is also not uncivil. | |||
* The rest of the filing is not about Selfstudier and is instead an excellent example of (1) throwing a whole bunch of diffs out hoping something will stick to someone and (2) an example of why filings in this area often turn into huge messess that can't reach resolution. This is supposed to be a filing about Selfstudier's behavior - instead most of it is about a grab-bag of other edits from many other editors, and frankly, seems to be motivated by the filer feeling that they aren't being taken seriously enough or something. I'm not going to read any of these diffs because they are not about the editor you filed against and my time is worth something and we should not reward abuse of this process by this sort of grab-bag-against-everyone-that-disagreed-with-an-editor filing. | |||
* The only reason I'm not going for a boomerang against the filer is that they have only been editing for about six months and this is the first AE filing they've done. Let me suggest that they do not file another one like this - it's a waste of admin time. ] (]) 14:48, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I second Ealdgyth's reading. The presented diffs against Selfstudier are not actionable, and a lot of the complaint is not about Selfstudier at all. I don't believe the filing alone is grounds for sanction on the filer, but if someone wishes to present more evidence against them I suggest they do so in a separate report. ] (]) 21:27, 14 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I stumbled into this by accident and I don't do these requests anymore, but I wonder if filer should edit outside the subject area until they have much more experience in ] and dispute resolution.YMMV. Best] (]) 08:03, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*Another case on this editor was just closed a week ago, is there any relation between this filing and issues brought up in ]? It seems like some editors are brought to AE on a weekly basis. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 08:33, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
{{hab}} | |||
==Rasteem== | |||
Given that you are now suggesting a one-week block for myself due to my taking heed of advice given by an arb at an Arbcom case, I will be heading you off at the pass on this block by seeking clarification from the committee itself as to what is and isn't allowed under these interaction bans, and you are more than welcome to make known your opinion there. If it is the opinion of the committee that my nominating an article which doesn't comply with many WP policies for AfD that this is disruptive, then I will take issue with the committee directly due to the interaction bans not being intended to stop editors from editing articles in good faith (as per the committee members own words). --] <sup>]</sup> 17:19, 24 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> | |||
===Request concerning Rasteem=== | |||
; Response to both admins (Canens and Ed) : I would like you to note that the AfD has seen involvement from other editors who are banned from interacting with me (Vecrumba and Volunteer Marek), so going by your own words they should also be blocked for their involvement in the AfD, seeing as it was started by myself. However, I would not go to AE just for their involvement, so long as content is the only thing being discussed. I don't take the view of issues regarding content being a violation of the interaction ban but if they are, then Volunteer Marek would also be in a more obvious violation with his involvement. However, Vecrumba's involvement was not based on content; instead he chose from the outset to delve into personal attacks on myself, and that is the only reason I have come here. --] <sup>]</sup> 01:13, 28 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|NXcrypto}} 03:06, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Rasteem}}<p>{{ds/log|Rasteem}}</p> | |||
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
===Discussion concerning Vecrumba=== | |||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] | |||
====Statement by Vecrumba==== | |||
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | |||
My words have nothing to do with TFD or Russavia individually, but who are symptomatic in this case. If civility and good faith are ever going to reign on Misplaced Pages in the Baltic and Eastern European article space, we can't have editors who misrepresent sources making out Baltic individuals to be Nazis or editors who fulminate over propagandic foreign ministries being the first ones who line up to nominate content for deletion which refers to the Soviet Union occupying the Baltic states. In my view, that is outright WP:HARASSMENT of the editor(s) who created that content. It's not an article deletion nomination in good faith when we all know that it's going to provoke another fist-fight. ]<small> ►]</small> 21:44, 24 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
: P.S. My comments at the AfD can apply only to TFD (Lia Looveer supporting Nazis article content) without the involvement of Russavia. But as Russavia has seen fit to assault me here, I am now applying to both. ]<small> ►]</small> 21:50, 24 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
: @TFD, I regret my personal perception is that <u>your support</u> of the AfD is partisan as you would know very well given past conflicts that we would eventually end up in some sort of dispute resolution. Whatever the spat Russavia has with another editor is not my concern. To avoid such unfortunate perceptions on my part and I suspect that of others in the future, we would all do well not to piss on the content of editors we consider to be our editorial opposition. I don't piss on anyone's Russophile content as I get no satisfaction from stomping on the good efforts of other individuals—I applaud and support all those whose love of their culture and heritage brings them to contribute to Misplaced Pages. Unfortunately, it seems that not all share my sentiments. ]<small> ►]</small> 15:31, 25 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
: @Nanobear, I regret your venom over what you believe are personal attacks by myself against other editors. Russavia's historically anti-Baltic biased editorial position (I can provide diffs) and provocative timing of removing content which is not complimentary to Russia (recent activities) and seeming tit-for-tat leaps into AE requests (and, I ask you, when is the last time I originated one of these to pour gasoline on the fire?) present, to me, an activism which runs counter to our collegial cooperation. We should all consider going to bed early tonight and wake up on a less stressful side of the bed. That you've been completely inactive in the Soviet-Baltic Russian-Baltic sphere of topics but show up in short order to denounce me along the line of your past attacks on my character do not bode well for our moving on from past conflict. As for your diffs of me "attacking" you, I will simply start filing arbitration enforcement requests instead of simply complaining, as this seems to be a contest about who can eliminate who for how long having nothing to do with any postive aspect of Misplaced Pages. ]<small> ►]</small> 00:10, 29 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | |||
====Comments by others about the request concerning Vecrumba==== | |||
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.--> | |||
Vecrumba implies that Russavia initiated an AfD for partisan reasons. The comments are unhelpful and disruptive to the AfD. ] (]) 14:41, 24 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
# - removed wikilink of an Indian railway station thus violating his topic ban from India and Pakistan. | |||
This violation comes after he was already warned for his first violation of the topic ban. | |||
=====Comment by Nanobear===== | |||
Starting an AfD about an article falls into the article space, not interaction space. Neither Russavia nor Tammsalu are subjects of the AfD. It is no personalization in itself and not covered by an interaction ban. Please see ]. ] (]) 20:04, 24 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
Upon a closer look into his recent contribution, I found that he is simply ] the system by creating articles like ] which is overall only 5,400 bytes but he made nearly 50 edits here. This is clearly being done by Rasteem for passing the 500 edits mark to get his topic ban overturned. | |||
:According to arbitrator Carcharoth, commenting on content is allowed: please see ]. And that's exactly what Russavia did when he initiated the AfD. ] (]) 20:24, 24 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:: This should probably be sent to ArbCom for a clear clarification (ha!), because I've seen two admins disagree here on what an IBAN should or shouldn't allow. The core issue is how much AGF should go into "I didn't know I was reverting/AfDing stuff added by someone with whom interaction is prohibited", ''and'' what should be done in the inevitable cases when it does happen: revert or allow content discussion between the ibanned parties? ] (]) 02:40, 25 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
I recommend increasing the topic ban to indefinite duration. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 03:06, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
So talking about content previously edited by Tammsalu is a violation of interaction ban? This seems to be a completely different opinion that what we currently have in our policy. The policy specifically allows content edits. Russavia was only discussing content - which is allowed - until Vecrumba launched an extremely offensive personal attack against him (not the first time Vecrumba has made such attacks). The only correct thing to do is to then report the attacker on this noticeboard, which is what Russavia did. It seems that you wish to ban Russavia for doing everything correctly. This seems to be completely at odds with current policy. ] (]) 01:24, 27 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : "topic banned from the subject of India and Pakistan, broadly construed, until both six months have elapsed and they have made 500 edits after being notified of this sanction." | |||
'''History of Vecrumba's incivility and personal attacks against editors''' | |||
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]): | |||
After on Russavia (for which he was blocked for 3 weeks), and because Vecrumba is now continuing such attacks, it seems clear that a longer block is now in order for him. This is especially the case since Vecrumba's defence of his attack (see his section above) is an attempt to deflect from the fact that the personal attacks were clearly directed against Russavia. | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | |||
If the personal attack really wasn't directed against Russavia, but against TFD (which seems unlikely), like Vecrumba claims, then this only demonstrates that Vecrumba has a major problem staying ] in the EE topic area. It looks like Vecrumba deems it necessary to attack all editors instead of commenting on content only, as Russavia notes above. In this case, discretionary sanctions of ] apply, and given Vecrumba's battlefield mentality a complete block from the EE area seems now warranted. | |||
<!-- Add any further comment here --> | |||
*I agree that there are genuine CIR issues with Rasteem, for example while this ARE report is in progress they created ], which has promotional statements like: "The lake's stunning caluts, majestic desert topographies, and serene lakes produce a shifting destination. Its unique charm attracts a wide range of guests, from adventure contenders to nature suckers and beyond". ] <small><small>]</small></small> 03:26, 14 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
I too have been the target of Vecrumba's attacks on many occasions. Two recent examples are: . In Vecrumba launches an attack against a respected admin (Future Perfect at Sunrise), because the admin dared to block an EEML member. ] (]) 02:23, 28 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request (you may use {{subst:AE-notice|thread name}}), and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. --> | |||
=====Comment by Tammsalu===== | |||
On the general issue of what constitutes a personal attack, a review of ] may be helpful, particularly the fourth bullet point "Accusations about personal behavior that ''lack evidence"''. On an abstract level, if a party subject to such an accusation is also under an interaction ban or banned in the past, then such evidence must demonstrably exist. For example if someone said to me something like ''"I regret you have chosen to revert to your former belligerent conduct."'' given my block log I really can't claim it was a personal attack, can I. --] (]) 19:52, 28 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
===Result concerning Vecrumba=== | |||
<!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.--> | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.'' | |||
* I'm of the view that Russavia's initiation of that AfD violated their interaction ban with Tammsalu - see - and Vecrumba's comment violated their interaction ban with Russavia - which is plain. Proposing 1 week blocks for both. ] (]) 17:01, 24 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
**<small>Irrelevant sidenote: Every time I see myself being referred to as ''Canens'' I chuckle a little. It's the present active participle of the Latin verb ''cano, -ere'', meaning "singing". No, it's not a surname. ] (]) 11:58, 26 August 2011 (UTC)</small> | |||
* Agree with T. Canens that one-week blocks of both Russavia and Vecrumba are justified for violating the respective interaction bans: Russavia's with Tammsalu, and Vecrumba's interaction ban with Russavia. The feud between the EEML people and Russavia is not over, and the only restriction still in place which can limit the effects of this feud is the set of interaction bans. ] (]) 03:51, 26 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:*I've been discussing the future of these interaction bans with some users. If I can find support for doing something different I'll propose it back here. Please consider keeping the thread open for a couple more days. ] (]) 15:44, 29 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
===Discussion concerning Rasteem=== | |||
== Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Someone35 == | |||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | |||
====Statement by Rasteem==== | |||
<small>''Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found in . According to that motion, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. <p>To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see ]).''</small> | |||
This approach seems to be a coordinated attack to abandon me from Misplaced Pages indefinitely. Indeed, after my ban for 6 months. I was banned on 6 December, and in just 7 days, this report is literally an attempt to make me leave Misplaced Pages. | |||
1. I rolled back my own edit; it was last time made unintentionally. I was about to revert it, but my internet connection was lost, so when I logged in again, I regressed it. | |||
; Appealing user : {{userlinks|Someone35}} – <span style="background-color: #75ab00; border:1.5px solid #bad57f; font-family:Segoe Print; font-size:80%;"> ] ] </span> 08:04, 24 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
The internet is constantly slow and sometimes goes down. I live in a hilly location and I had formerly mentioned it. | |||
; Sanction being appealed : Banned from editing for 72 hours | |||
http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages%3AArbitration%2FRequests%2FEnforcement&action=historysubmit&diff=446424381&oldid=446415984 | |||
My edits on Arjan Lake isn't any ] factual number of edits I made; it is 45, not 50. Indeed, I made similar edits before in September and December months on the same articles within a single day or 2-3 days. | |||
; Administrator imposing the sanction : {{admin|EdJohnston}} | |||
2. ] on this article, I've added 5680 bytes & made 43 edits. | |||
; Notification of that administrator : ''The appealing editor is asked to notify the administrator who made the enforcement action of this appeal, and then to replace this text with a ] of that notification. The appeal may not be processed otherwise. If a block is appealed, the editor moving the appeal to this board should make the notification.'' | |||
:* I have seen this appeal, so I don't have to be notified. ] (]) 14:17, 24 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
===Statement by Someone35=== | |||
3. ] on this article I've added 4000 bytes & made 49 edits. | |||
2 different people reverted my edits without finish the discussion topic I started in] (it's 3 people now, OhioStandard also reverted it after I was blocked). I them not to turn it into an edit war and reply to the topic in ] but they refused. In the arbitration request I couldn't say what was my side since I was blocked before I could respond there (the request was written about at 23:00 gmt +2 and I had to go to sleep, I the administrator to wait but he didn't wait). | |||
::You appear to have called Nableezy an anti-Semite in at the bottom of this talk page. (See Nableezy's objection ). Your statement is considered to be a ]. I suggest that you remove your comment. ] (]) 16:57, 24 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:::that's what i did, although there's a reason i written this in hebrew, it was not intended for him but for hebrew speakers. if he chooses to stalk me then it's his problem. can you please add this explanation for me in the block appeal request? for some reason i don't have the right to comment there--<span style="background-color: #75ab00; border:1.5px solid #bad57f; font-family:Segoe Print; font-size:80%;"> ] ] </span> 17:31, 24 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
::::At least you have the courage to tell the truth. -] (]) 21:12, 24 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:: I don't speak Hebrew but I knew the meaning of what Someone35 wrote within 60 seconds of seeing it. Frankly I think Someone35's block should be extended. He/she simply doesn't seem to get it. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 00:26, 25 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:::Of course he does not get it. The guy has only received demands to self-revert and templates. Maybe the admins sanctioning here should go read ARBPIA: "''...Prior to any sanctions being imposed, the editor in question shall be given a warning with a link to this decision; and, '''where appropriate, should be counseled on specific steps that he or she can take to improve his or her editing in accordance with relevant policies and guidelines.''''' Where else is more appropriate to a relatively new editor new to the topic area? A template is not sufficient. Furthermore, we should understand why the guy is upset. He feels that he is getting mobbed by a bunch of edit warring POV pushers. I am not going to comment on if I agree or not. He then got a block that was 2-2.5 days longer than needed to stop the disruption. A 12hr block under the conditions of the 1/rr amendment (no help words of advice or warnings required) would have done the trick. So how about an admin actually goes and starts a discussion with the guy instead of promoting an atmosphere that a new editor can easily assume is wikilawyering?] (]) 02:33, 25 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:::Well I have tried for you guys. There are a couple admins who would have worded it much better. Obviously they are not around. ] (]) 03:03, 25 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:::: If you can get him to behave properly, good for you. Meanwhile, the fact remains that he explicitly refused to obey policy after it was pointed out to him, and then he went on to libel another editor. Neither action is excused by inexperience. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 10:39, 25 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
::::: Agreed. But the banhammer laid down by T.C is, IMO, rather draconian considering the nature of his violations. I have never seen such a punishment before - an indefinite ban that can only be petitioned once every three months? is not a policy or guideline. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 22:31, 27 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:::::: It wouldn't have happened if he acknowledged fault and undertook to behave better. But to this date he has only claimed to have done nothing wrong and that the rules are stupid. IMO that left TC with no option and I agree with his rationale. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 23:11, 27 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
::::::: I understand that. But I don't understand the petition process. Is there a precedent for this? I get the time-out process but this seems overtly humiliating, especially for such a young editor and first time offender. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 23:19, 27 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
===Statement by EdJohnston=== | |||
The original block which is being appealed was imposed per ]. That thread is still visible above. The other page you might want to look at when reviewing this is ]. This editor seems to have made a plain 1RR violation on an I/P article. Generally these can be closed quickly with no action if the user agrees to self-revert. In this case, the user refused to self-revert as shown by the diffs supplied in the report. It is generally not persuasive to blame others if you find yourself committing a 1RR. The nature of a 1RR is that it's easy to recognize a violation, and a long discussion at AE should not be needed. Those who disagree with the block argue that Someone35 is a newcomer and ]. I did not find this argument convincing. One ought to be sufficient. ] (]) 14:07, 24 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:At the bottom of his talk page, Someone35 has in which he asks Nableezy, 'Who pays you and where do you live?' ] (]) 01:14, 25 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
===Statement by |
====Statement by (username)==== | ||
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. --> | |||
In the last section on Someone35's talk page, there is a conversation between Chesdovi and the user about another article, ]. Included in that exchange is the following Hebrew from the user: {{rtl-lang|he|אם אתה ישראלי למה אתה בעד לקרוא לתלמוד ירושלמי "התלמוד הפלסטיני"? מי קורא לזה ככה חוץ מאנטישמים כמו נבליזי?}}. The translation of that last question is "who calls it that except for anti-Semites like Nableezy?" I dont appreciate such an outrageous charge being leveled against me, in any language, and as such I request that the block not be rescinded but instead extended. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - 16:35, 24 August 2011 (UTC)</small> | |||
===Result concerning Rasteem=== | |||
===Statement by Malik Shabazz=== | |||
"I'll call other editors antisemites in languages I don't think they can read, and in places I don't expect them to read." That's certainly a novel interpretation of ]. — ] <sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub> 20:29, 24 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:@Wikifan: This sort of open-ended topic ban, which may be appealed every few months, has been meted out in disputes related to Eastern and Central Europe. The admins who have been adjudicating ARBPIA enforcement have been warning for months that it was coming to this area too. Someone35 just happens to be the first editor (as far as I know) to get these sanctions in the Israel–Palestine topic area. — ] <sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub> 23:37, 27 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
::Oh I didn't know that. I've just never seen this before. Maybe someone could mentor Someone? I hope this community ban doesn't deter young editors from contributing. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 00:25, 28 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
===Statement by (involved editor 2)=== | |||
===Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Someone35 === | |||
<s>Ed, as this is the editor's first block, would it be within your own discretion to lessen the block to a lesser time---3 days does seem a bit too long for a first offence---perhaps make it 24 hours, albeit with a warning that future infractions will lead to longer blocks as per admin discretion.</s> --] <sup>]</sup> 14:53, 24 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:In light of Nableezy's information, perhaps Canens is correct, a topic ban is quite possibly in order here. --] <sup>]</sup> 16:59, 24 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
::A topic ban for a personal attack (first offense again)? | |||
::I think editors need to take a step back, let Someone finish out his 72 hour block and request he strike out his statements about Nableezy. This AE would be Nableezy's 3rd for the month of August. AE should be used as a last resort, and IMO the charges are not damning enough to go here. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 00:14, 25 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
::: He deleted that sentence, but immediately added and , which don't look much more friendly. ] (]) 02:19, 25 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
::::Perhaps. But users have more rights over their talk pages than on Misplaced Pages articles. Not sure on the validity of the userbox but edits like shouldn't lead to topic bans. If Someone starts hounding Nableezy then I could understand. But Nableezy is a a veteran at AE and knows policy so I can understand how a young immature editor might feel victimized. Plenty of more appropriate noticeboards to handle these sorts of behavioral issues. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 04:34, 25 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:::::The user was brought to AE because he violated the 1RR and refused to self-revert. He was subsequently blocked. Whether or not you consider that "damning enough" for a block really does not concern me, it very clearly merits a block. Calling another user an anti-Semite is a straightforward personal attack. There are a large number of users I would like to call racists (or much harsher things), but I dont, because we have a ] that forbids such actions. AE is for enforcing arbitration decisions. The Arab-Israeli conflict area is subject to discretionary sanctions as a result of an arbitration decision. This is exactly the place where this belongs. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - 06:56, 25 August 2011 (UTC)</small> | |||
He violated 1rr and was hit with IMO a heavy block (72 hours?) especially long for a first offense, and yes in spite of warnings. As far as civility goes, independent of arbitration rules. This is a trivial matter Nableezy, suggestions of a topic ban of any length are totally out of proportion to what Someone has said. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 07:50, 25 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:This isnt an issue of civility. The user was complaining that another user used the words "Palestinian Talmud" in reference to ], a topic that I have both no knowledge of and no interest in. But to underline his or her point, this user thinks it is somehow acceptable to say that only "anti-Semites like Nableezy" refer to it as the "Palestinian Talmud", forgetting that the person who actually referred to it as the Palestinian Talmud is a Jewish Zionist who, while not the most diametrically opposed user to me in terms of political views, has never, as far as I can tell, been accused of antisemitism by anybody. This isnt an issue of civility, this child thinks it is acceptable to write on the internet that a person is an anti-Semite without any evidence at all, in fact, with what appears to be the exact opposite of evidence. You think thats cool? You want to ask me "u mad bro?" But the user did remove the comment, I cant say that there is presently an issue. A fourteen year old child said something stupid, it has been removed, end of story as far as I am concerned. Should this child be allowed to continue editing such topics? Not my decision, and not really sure if that is a question to decide here. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - 08:25, 25 August 2011 (UTC)</small> | |||
::There is an issue of civility here in the overall scheme of things. Any editor who attacks another editor using either nationality, race, religion, etc as the underlying basis of the attack should be shown the door immediately. if this editor is only 14 years old perhaps also contact their guardian as well, so that they can have their arse smacked and sent to their room with no dinner lol. --] <sup>]</sup> 09:56, 25 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:::Please tell me Nableezy, is it my problem that you choose to Google translate things I was telling Chesdovi? Do you really think there was no reason I wrote that in HEBREW? If you choose to read what you're not supposed to read (like other people's talk pages in other languages...) you have no right to complain about what you find there. If I wanted to personally offend you then I would just write you in English/Arabic on YOUR talk page and call you an anti semite--<span style="background-color: #75ab00; border:1.5px solid #bad57f; font-family:Segoe Print; font-size:80%;"> ] ] </span> 06:34, 27 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
::::I don't think you get it. Personal attacks are not allowed in any language, and they are considered to be personal attacks even if you are not intending for the one you are attacking to read it. I didn't make the policies for WP, but I chose to abide by them to the best of my ability. If you don't want to abide by them, you are free to edit else where (like your website). -] (]) 07:26, 27 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:::::That wasn't a personal attack. Again, if I wanted to insult him then I could just tell him that on his talk page--<span style="background-color: #75ab00; border:1.5px solid #bad57f; font-family:Segoe Print; font-size:80%;"> ] ] </span> 08:01, 27 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
::::::"Personal attacks are not allowed in any language, and they are '''considered to be''' personal attacks even if you are not intending for the one you are attacking to read it." -] (]) 08:23, 27 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
===Result of the appeal by Someone35=== | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | :''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | ||
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. --> | |||
<!-- Use {{discussion top}} / {{discussion bottom}} to mark this request as closed.--> | |||
* I |
* While I don't see a change in editing pattern that indicates gaming, the edits to ] indicate issues with competence, as the article is weirdly promotional and contains phrases such as "beast species", "emotional 263 proved species". ] (]) 20:57, 13 December 2024 (UTC) <!-- | ||
--> | |||
* Concur with T. Canens on the first count; neutral on the second. I should mention that Google translate confirms the translation (although of course with some grammar differences.) ]<small><sup>]</sup>]</small> 01:41, 25 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
*Adding to {{u|Femke}}'s point, {{tpq|magnific 70- cadence-high waterfalls in this area}} is not prose that inspires confidence in the editor's competence to edit the English Misplaced Pages. So, we have violations of a topic ban and questions about the editor's linguistic competence and performance. Perhaps an indefinite block appealable in six months with a recommendation to build English competency by editing the Simple English Misplaced Pages, and to build general Misplaced Pages skills by editing in the version of Misplaced Pages in the language they speak best during that minimum six month period. As for ], although the prose is poor, the references in the article make it clear to me that the topic is notable, so the editor deserves some credit for starting this article that did not exist for two decades plus. ] (]) 08:57, 14 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
Closing this. The block has expired, so the matter is now moot, but in any event the appeal clearly did not succeed. Further, I find that Someone35 has demonstrated a clear inability to comply with the fundamental behavioral guidelines of Misplaced Pages. | |||
*Brief comment to avoid the archive bot. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 17:46, 25 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
As the Arbitration Committee ]: | |||
<blockquote> | |||
Misplaced Pages is a serious educational and scholarly project founded on the principles of collaboration and consensus. All participants are expected to conduct themselves according to the standards of collegiality and professionalism appropriate to such a setting.<p> | |||
The standards of collegiality expected of all contributors to Wikimedia projects are set forth in the , which urges editors to "promote openness and collaboration", "treat new editors with patience, kindness, and respect", "work with colleagues to reduce contention and promote a friendlier, more collaborative culture", and "work with colleagues to discourage disruptive and hostile behavior".<p> | |||
The Misplaced Pages community has outlined similar standards in the "]" of community policy, which asks that editors "interact with each other in a respectful and civil manner", "be polite to fellow Wikipedians, even when you disagree", and "be open and welcoming".<p> | |||
Misplaced Pages's core behavioral policies outline certain minimal standards for acceptable user conduct by explicitly prohibiting a number of disruptive activities, such as ] and ]. The expectation of collegiality among participants goes beyond compliance with these minimal standards. The fact that a particular activity or attitude is not explicitly prohibited does not make it appropriate in a collaborative environment or conducive to maintaining a welcoming atmosphere. | |||
</blockquote> | |||
I find it particularly disturbing that, despite multiple editors and administrators pointing out to them that calling a fellow editor an anti-Semite is an unacceptable personal attack, and despite the knowledge that a topic ban is being considered for this conduct, Someone35 continues to insist that it was not a personal attack, and indeed that it was the attacked editor's fault for noticing it in the first place. | |||
==שלומית ליר== | |||
Not so. As ] points out, "insulting or disparaging an editor is a personal attack regardless of the manner in which it is done". That the attack was written in a language other than English is irrelevant. | |||
{{hat | |||
| result = ] is reminded to double-check edits before publishing, and to try to reply more promptly when asked about potential mistakes. ] (]) 20:21, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
}} | |||
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> | |||
===Request concerning שלומית ליר=== | |||
Reviewing the behavior of Someone35 in this thread and elsewhere leaves me convinced that they will not be a constructive presence in this topic area, which is already rife with interpersonal conflicts. To the extent that Someone35's conduct is due to simple inexperience rather than knowing violations of the standards of behavior, I am of the view that ] for editing in this topic area. As the Committee noted in the ]: | |||
<blockquote>Editors wishing to edit in these areas are advised to edit carefully, to adopt Misplaced Pages's communal approaches (including appropriate conduct, ], ], ] and ]) in their editing, and to amend behaviors that are deemed to be of concern by administrators. An editor <u>unable</u> or unwilling to do so may wish to restrict their editing to other topics, in order to avoid sanctions. (emphasis added)</blockquote> | |||
My conclusion is that until Someone35 can demonstrate that they are willing and able to "conduct themselves according to the standards of collegiality and professionalism" expected of editors, they should not be allowed to edit in this topic area or its closely related topics. Accordingly, under the authority of ], {{user|Someone35}} is banned from all articles, discussions, and other content related to the Middle East, broadly construed across all namespaces, for a period of no less than 3 months. After 3 months, and every 3 months thereafter, they may apply to have the ban reviewed at ]. Further, Someone35 may make one appeal to AE at any time within the next 3 months challenging this decision. They may also appeal to the Arbitration Committee at any time. The ban will stay in place until it is lifted on appeal at AE or by the Arbitration Committee. ] (]) 09:21, 27 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Nableezy}} 23:48, 15 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Chesdovi == | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|שלומית ליר}}<p>{{ds/log|שלומית ליר}}</p> | |||
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.'' | |||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] | |||
===Request concerning Chesdovi=== | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : ] (]) 23:24, 24 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Chesdovi}} | |||
#] claiming a source supports something it never mentions | |||
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : | |||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] | |||
N/A | |||
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | |||
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]): | |||
;Chesdovi has started a talk page section at ] reopening the controversial matter of of the Tomb's name in Arabic: | |||
*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on ] (see the system log linked to above). | |||
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. --> | |||
# | |||
;Chesdovi received a one-year topic ban for articles related to the Arab-Israeli conflict under ]: | |||
#Topic Banned on by {{user|Timotheus Canens}} | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | ; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | ||
The user wrote that NATO had supported accusations against Hamas citing a titled Hamas and Human Rights in a book titled . They cited the entire chapter, pages 56–126. The source itself is a work of scholarship, and nobody would challenge it as a reliable source. Luckily, the full text of the book is available via the , and anybody with access to that can verify for themselves that the word "shield" appears nowhere in the book. Not human shield, or even NATO (nato appears in searches with the results being "expla'''nator'''y, twice and coordi'''nato'''r once, or Atlantic, or N.A.T.O. It is simply made up that this source supports that material. The user later, after being challenged but declining to answer what in the source supports it (see ]), added another source that supposedly supports the material, paper by NATO StratCom COE, however they themselves say they are , though that misunderstanding is certainly forgivable. However, completely making up that a source supports something, with a citation to 70 pages of a book, is less so. That is to me a purposeful attempt at obfuscating that the source offered does not support the material added, and the lack of any attempt of explaining such an edit on the talk page led me to file a report here. ''']''' - 23:48, 15 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
<s>For people not familiar with the subject, I will try to lay it down as clearly and neutrally as possible- Joseph's Tomb is venerated by Israelis as being the burial site of the prophet Joseph and by Palestinians as being the tomb of a local Muslim cleric. Chesdovi proposing to insert the term of "en-Nabi" (which is the Arabic word for prophet) would be pushing the POV of Israelis who believe it is the site of their prophet and suppressing the Palestinian POV that it is a burial site of a local Muslim cleric. Chesdovi is familiar with the conflict as is noted by topic he opened on my talk page a while back. He is also well aware of the that asserts the Muslim belief it is the burial site of a local cleric. | |||
:It’s a matter for AE because violations in a CT topic are AE matters and I’ve previously been told to come here instead of AN(I). What sanction? I don’t think there’s any action more serious than making up something about a source, so I’d say it would be anywhere from a logged, and first only, warning to a topic ban. The second sourcing issue isn’t a huge deal, but the first one, the diff im reporting, is IMO such a severe violation that it merits a sanction. I don’t think this is simply misrepresentation, it is complete fabrication. They cited 70 pages of a book without a quote, to a link that doesn’t have the text. Without the Misplaced Pages Library this would have been much more difficult to check. This is going back a while, but ] was a similar situation reported here. If there had been some explanation given on the talk page I wouldn’t have reported this here, but the wholesale fabrication of claiming that a source that never mentions the topic supports some material was ignored there. ''']''' - 14:28, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
Regardless of who is right or wrong in the matter, it is clear that there is enough conflict on the matter () that it would fall under Chesdovi's topic ban of being restricted to articles '''"broadly construed"''' as being related to the Arab-Israeli conflict. | |||
::I want to be clear, I am not claiming any sanctionable behavior in the second diff. I only brought it up to say that rather than address the fabrication in the first one they simply attempted to add some other source. They have as yet not addressed the diff I am reporting here. I am only claiming an issue in that diff citing the book chapter for a book that never even says the word shield in it. ''']''' - 19:47, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::According to , the insertion of that source was ], the diff I've reported. As far as I can tell no other user has introduced that source on that page. The revision that the user below says has the sources they took from {{tq|in the article's edit history}} is ''after'' the insertion of that source by that user. If there is some prior revision showing that source being used for that statement then I'd withdraw my complaint, but that does not appear to be the case. ''']''' - 19:58, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
::::If that is indeed reproducible then I suggest this be closed with a reminder, not a logged warning, to check the output of any tool more thoroughly. And answer questions about your edits when raised on the talk page instead of ignoring them. ''']''' - 19:50, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::::Just noting that I verified the bug in the VE sandbox as well. Had I been told of that sequence when I asked about the edit I obviously would not have opened this request. ''']''' - 18:25, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
I also that Chesdovi strikethrough his comments on the talk page, but he declined. I went on to on why I feel it is a topic ban violation and he felt he was not in violation of his topic ban and therefore was not obliged to strikethrough his comments. | |||
:On a sub-note, Chesdovi was also clearly informed on the scope of his topic ban . -] (]) 23:35, 24 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
::Of course Chesdovi thinks he hasn't violated any sort of topic ban when it seems the only sources he thinks exists on the matter play to his POV regarding the Arabic naming. It would be hard to see a conflict of the nature of this one with that kind of tunnel vision. The fact of the matter remains (which is backed up by numerous sources) - Israelis believe that it is the tomb of the their prophet, Palestinians believe it is the tomb of a local Muslim cleric -- Chesdovi would therefore be pushing the Israeli POV into the Arabic name, which is obviously suppose to represent the Palestinian POV. I can in no way determine what the intentions of Chesdovi are, but all I know is that there is a I-P conflict and Chesdovi's proposals play to one side of it. -] (]) 11:57, 25 August 2011 (UTC)</s> | |||
Upon further thought to the matter, I would like to withdrawal my complaint. I am from the same school of understanding as Chesdovi, that the content is not related to the conflict so it would not fall under the scope of his topic ban. My original thoughts as to filing the complaint was that Chesdovi was trying to insert an Israeli POV into the Arabic translation of the article's name. But seeing Chesdovi's dedication to the subject, and by his recent comments here and on the article's talk page, I see that my original understanding was ill-founded and that he was not intending to net this into the conflict, rather try to explain what he thinks is the proper work (how ever much I bitterly disagree with it. I know the subject may have now become whether or not topic-banned editors are allowed to be involved with any article that even barely relates to the conflict, but, again my original thoughts on the matter was that Chesdovi was trying to bring an Israeli POV into the matter, not that he was just simply commenting on an article that is related to the conflict in some way shape or form. -] (]) 00:19, 26 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | ; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | ||
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===Discussion concerning |
===Discussion concerning שלומית ליר=== | ||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | |||
====Statement by |
====Statement by שלומית ליר==== | ||
The article "Use of human shields by Hamas" is intended to address a well-documented phenomenon: Hamas’s deliberate use of civilian infrastructure — homes, hospitals, and mosques — as shields for its military operations. This includes hiding weapons, constructing military tunnels beneath civilian populations, and knowingly placing innocent lives in harm’s way. Yet, I found the article falls far short of adequately describing this phenomenon. It presents vague and generalized accusations while failing to reference the numerous credible organizations that have extensively documented these practices. | |||
I did not edit on the conflict. Asad is shrewdly making the leap, linking an innocent attempt to provide the original authentic name, to the conflict area. Please note that it was myself who brought ] up to GA status and I know which parts of that article are related to the conflict. Discussing the Arabic name for the tomb does not violate my ban. My banning Admin has made it clear that I am within my rights to make such edits. It is so wrong of Asad to accuse me of stoking passions on the A/I conflict by trying to whitewash the claims by some that it is the tomb of the sheikh! This point is clearly mentioned in the lead. Further I added a whole section about the ]. Further, the ''en-Nabi'' name is already used and sourced in the article itself: ]. This term produced over 250,000 search results! Asad says he will "try to lay it down as clearly and neutrally." From what I can see, he has not clarified my position on the matter at all. He in fact is only asserting erroneously that I am intent on inserting an Israeli POV which is not my position at all. Yet he fails to mention this. I can back this up by the fact that ] from ], which translates into Arabic as ''el-Mabka''. Asad has made it clear that he has an issue with this (Note ] did not as he himself changed the Arabic ). Note further that ] is also of the opinion that such a discussion does not violate my ban: , but retracted after Asad made know his supposed link. In light of this I have made crystal clear I am willing to work together to sort this out. But of course he is having none of this. Also note that in the AE report he mentioned above, Asad used a false date in his attempt to get me banned. When mentioning this issue he falsely claim the relevant edit took place on 28/6/2011, when it in fact took place 2 months before that. Further, the banning Admin stated that "I will not evaluate the third diff as I'm unfamiliar with Arabic." So there we have it: Asad ''alone'' has concocted this Arabic naming edit to be associated with the conflict and therefore the ban. I have not violated my ban. ] (]) 10:36, 25 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
During my review, I discovered that essential sources were available in the article's edit history (https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Use_of_human_shields_by_Hamas&oldid=1262868174). I retrieved and restored these sources without reverting prior edits, including a source referenced by user Nableezy. When it was brought to my attention that an error had occurred, I acknowledged it, thanked the user, and corrected it by incorporating two reliable references. I had hoped this would resolve the issue, but apparently, it did not. | |||
*Debresser's post is littered with untruths and I am not going to revist that dispute here. ] (]) 11:29, 25 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
**I have made it so clear I cannot understand why Asad continues to think I do not accept that some Palestinians think a sheikh is buried there. Asad is trying to frame my edit as relating to the conflict. He can repeat as many times as he likes his views on the matter, it will make no difference. I have already explained that his take on the full Arabic name is his alone and I am willing to reach a compromise about how to present both names. Why he continues to assert otherwise escapes me. This article contains numerous sources affirming that some Moslems believe the biblical prophet lies buried there. There is therefore no reason whatsoever to reject the Arabic name for this. It is as simple as that. ] (]) 12:11, 25 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
Now, I find myself the subject of an arbitration enforcement hearing that feels not only unwarranted but intended to intimidate me from contributing further to this article. | |||
*'''Cptnono:''' If Cptnono’s view has any merits in the eyes of others, this issue needs to be clarified. So many articles can be linked to the conflict, what would the limit be? Are all Holocaust articles banned because some are of the view it lead to the creation of Israel? Are article on medieval Jews such as ] also out, as edits there could bolster the Israeli claim to Gaza? What about 9/11 – Israel is mentioned in the lead? Do mere naming conventions, such as at Joseph’s Tomb, also contravene such a ban as it can be seen as a political ploy? The wording of the ban does not say "banned from articles which "include" the topic area", but rather says "banned from all articles, discussions, and other content related to the Arab-Israeli conflict," i.e. the actual articles themselves have to be related to the conflict, e.g. ] and ] which only exist ''because of'' the conflict. ] was around long before the A/I conflict, as was ], ], etc. That these articles now include content related to the conflict, that is covered when the ban states: "and other "content related" to the Arab-Israeli conflict", so I stand with ] who stated that if "your edits do not relate to the conflict in any way" then articles such as those that deal with Israel/Arab but not related directly to the Arab-Israeli conflict, such as cities, elections, internal affairs, can be edited under the ban. The issue here was that my edit was seen to be under "content related" in a permissable article, while I, and others, did not accept that connection, even though I was aware that Asad did. I will not however be held to account when the concern is that of a sole sensitive editor I feel is making a leap to connect edits to the conflict when it does not necesarrily relate to it. ] (]) 10:50, 26 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
I would also like to point out that the responses to my edits raise serious concerns. For instance, an image depicting missiles hidden in a family home — an image used in other Wikipedias to illustrate this topic — was removed. This raises the question: why obscure such critical evidence? Similarly, a scholarly source with credible information that emphasizes the severity of this issue was reverted without clear justification. | |||
*'''EdJohnston:''' If the ARBPIA template his to have any value in regard to topic bans (which it does not currently mention on the template), it has to be administered in an authoritative fashion, not just randomly, by whim. Non-Admin’s, such as SD, have added the template to many pages ''she'' thought were related. They may be, but who is she to decide? What may be obvious to some, may not be so to others. ] (]) 10:56, 26 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
This article should serve as a thorough account of Hamas's war crimes, which have resulted in the deaths of innocent civilians. Instead, it seems that some editors are working to dilute its substance, resisting efforts to include vital context and documentation at the start of the article. This undermines the article’s purpose and risks distorting the public’s understanding of an issue of profound international importance.] (]) 19:52, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*'''Debresser''' continues unabated with his edit-warring, now the subject of DRN. He has removed a sourced classification that ] was Palestinian, claiming that it is POV and non-consensus, when in fact the term is a widely used in RS from all political camps and has gained consensus at Afd! ] (]) 12:36, 26 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:I want to add that what Nableezy’s accusation is a complete misrepresentation (and, at times, distortion) of the sequence of events. A reference was mistakenly carried over from a previous editor, and once it was pointed out that it lacked the necessary supporting quotes, I removed it myself. | |||
====Comments by others about the request concerning Chesdovi==== | |||
:I find it difficult to accept that failing to respond immediately to an inquiry regarding a removed source (and good faith attempt to find a sufficient replacement) equates to misrepresentation. I strongly believe that using this forum to imply such a thing, based on the actual facts here, is a misuse of the process. | |||
:To the arbitrators: I want to ensure the sequence of events is clear, so I request permission to strike through extraneous elements in my initial response, if necessary, to include more technical evidence while staying within the 500-word limit ] (]) 21:06, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:: <small>(moved from V93's comment)</small> It’s simple. If you copy the reference from the previous version: ''<nowiki/>'Hamas' use of human shields in Gaza' (PDF), NATO Strategic Communications Centre of Excellence,'' and add it using the automatic reference tool, it changes it to: Mukhimer, Tariq (2013), ''Hamas and Human Rights'', ''Hamas Rule in Gaza'', New York: Palgrave Macmillan US, pp. 56–126, ISBN 978-1-349-45658-1, retrieved 2024-12-17. | |||
=====Comment by {{User|Debresser}}===== | |||
::This is an innocent error caused by the Wiki program itself. You can try it and see for yourself. | |||
Chesdovi has recently created categories like ] and several other "Palestinian" categories. When these categories were challenged by two authors, I one of them, on his talkpage, he continued adding them to articles rather than first gain consensus for their use. When opposition became fierce, he opened an Rfc on that category's talkpage, which showed that many editors oppose his categories, for various reasons. The main reason mentioned by many is the ambiguity of the word "Palestinian", which in our days first and foremost refers to the Palestinian nationality or ethnicity. Which is also how all of this connects to ]. In the end the category was deleted at Cfd, with a closing commentary that said "I could not find one editor that took up the position that User:Chesdovi embraces". He then took it unsuccessfully to Drv. Then he created the article ], which has survived the Afd I opened, even though the closing commentary left room for discussion about a more proper name. He has tried upon several occasions to add the epithet "Palestinian rabbi" to many articles about rabbis, being reverted mainly by me, and sometimes by other editors. He has also been posting many times on ] with proposals related to pushing the term "Palestinian". All of this interspersed with WP:ANI posts, and recurring incivility (for just a few instances see ]). Although I initially was of the opinion that these edits were not related to the Arab-Israeli conflict perse, Chesdovi's patter of massive amounts of edits throughout all namespaces including the word "Palestinian" has changed my opinion in this regard. I am now convinced that Chesdovi has a personal agenda, which drives him to disregard consensus and push the word "Palestinian" with all possible means. ] (]) 11:09, 25 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
::'''Where it led and what Nableezy allowed himself to do is a story by itself that demands investigation''' ] (]) 12:21, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:While I see your point, '''the issue here was indeed caused by a bug in the 'Add a Cite' tool on automatic mode.''' | |||
*:I suggest you take the time to verify this before jumping to far-reaching conclusions. | |||
*:. ] (]) 23:48, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:Thanks for checking it out and confirming; I appreciate it. ] (]) 23:25, 17 December 2024 (UTC) <small>Moved comment to own section. Please comment only in this section. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 23:47, 17 December 2024 (UTC) </small> | |||
* Regarding the proposed results, as stated by EdJohnston and T. Canens. If the months long patter of tens and hundreds of edits through all namespaces and all possible discussion venues I mentioned above is not an indication of "closely related" POV pushing, then I wonder what ''would'' constitute such behavior. ] (]) 12:14, 26 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
*:::True, and I would most definitely will check next time. ] (]) 23:50, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*: Just now Cheswdovi created an article, and called it ], although the article gave no indication why that should be his name. How can ArbCom deny the obvious POV pushing inherent in such actions. And if ArbCom doesn't agree with me that this fall within the scope of WP:ARBPIA, where should I take all of this? ] (]) 12:26, 26 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
==== |
====Statement by Supreme Deliciousness==== | ||
Valereee created the article ]. She is therefor involved in the topic area and shouldn't be editing in the uninvolved admin section.--] (]) 08:41, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
A posting on the ] was filed by Chesdovi and was closed because it appeared to violate the terms of the Arbitration Remedy. We have left the possibility of opening a discussion on this once the issue of their ARBPIA sanctions is resolved. ] (]) 17:27, 25 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
=====Comment by Cptnono===== | |||
In regards ot the admin's comment: A precedent being set for being allowed to make edits as long as they are not controversial is ridiculous. I appreciate that the editor was not trying to be political but he knew politics were involved and it is even in the diffs of that history. An ongoing problem in the topic area is that editors will edit something related to Israel or Palestine but not make it overtly controversial while still making one side look better the the other. I would like to argue that Chesdovi should get a pass on this since he has worked hard on the article and it was for the better good. However, that is not always the case for similar incidents and the remedies in the topic area have been circumvented at every possible opportunity by others. Topic banned is topic banned and if there is any chance that politics could take part (which it did) then it highlights why the remedies were initiated. Of course, there is no precedents anywhere in the topic area when it comes to enforcing restrictions so let this one slide like everything else. And the edits were not meant to be problematic even if drama was caused (no edit means no drama) so that makes it an easy out to again not enforce anything. ] (]) 05:36, 26 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
=== |
====Statement by (username)==== | ||
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. --> | |||
<!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.--> | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.'' | |||
*There is now a school of thought that people under an I/P topic ban like Chesdovi are allowed to edit articles with the ARBPIA template on them so long as they don't modify anything related to the conflict. ] who issued the topic ban thinks this is OK. The present dispute over the wording of Joseph's name is not directly related to the I/P conflict, so I would not want to apply a sanction. Since the submitter Asad112 is OK with closing this, I suggest we do so. Note that articles carrying the ARBPIA template are still under a 1RR restriction for all editors, regardless of whether topic bans cover them. The Palestinian rabbis mentioned by Debresser do not seem to have anything to do with this AE request. Whether the rabbis of 400 years ago should be referred to as Palestinian is not covered by ARBPIA restrictions. On the original issue about Joseph's name, a ] might be opened to gather opinions. ] (]) 03:38, 26 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
*I concur with Ed, with a caveat: if the exportation of disputes from Arab-Israeli conflict becomes a substantial problem, then it may be appropriate to invoke the provision of ] that authorizes "bans on any editing related to the topic or its closely related topics" and do full Middle East topic bans instead of the more limited ones we are handing out now. ] (]) 11:35, 26 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
===Result concerning שלומית ליר=== | |||
== Jonchapple == | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
* Please forgive my ignorance, but what specific sanction are you requesting and what exactly makes this possible interconnected source misrepresentation a matter that needs AE? Is the information removed (I'm assuming it is). Is this a long-term pattern? The filing even admits that the second instance is understandable given the name of the group putting out the source. I would be more concerned if this was a continuing problem - are there other recent instances of this editor possibly misrepresenting a source? And I'm still not sure that source misrepresntation is something that falls under AE's remit, rather than just something that could be dealt with at ANI or AN? Not saying no, but I'm not sure we need the big gun of AE for this just yet. ] (]) 13:02, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
** I'm not sure I'm ready to (1) take a 2011 discussion as binding in 2024 and (2) decide unilaterally that "violations in a CT topic are AE matters". Sorry, but I'm not that much of a cowboy (despite the cowboy hat in my closet and the ] horses in my paddock). I'm not trying to be difficult and not at all trying to minimize the severity of source misrepresentation - but I do not see where this topic area has sanctions authorized for that specific behavior - civility and aspersions yeah, but I'd like to see what other admins think. I also would like to see if שלומית ליר has any statement to make (while noting that not replying here is a very bad look for them). ] (]) 14:40, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
**:I would agree with Nableezy's view regarding jurisdiction, and was under the impression that this was already standard practice. AE is intended to address disruptive editing in designated contentious topics--source misrepresentation is definitely disruptive editing even if it was not specifically a matter of issue for the parties to ARBPIA4. <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 14:45, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
***: I'm perfectly happy to be shown that it's a matter for AE, I've just not seen it dealt with that I can remember (bearing in mind that I'm not as young as some other folks and can forget things) and I don't see it mentioned in the CT topics bits or in the case pages referred to. I prefer to err on the side of caution in these matters. ] (]) 14:50, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
***::To my reading it would be directly justified by ] point 2: {{tq| ...requests for an individual enforcement action against aware editors who engage in misconduct in a contentious topic}} <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 14:57, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
***::] is a report where I ~recently sanctioned for source misrepresentation. ] (]) 15:00, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*: I'm sorry - but I find this explanation ... not quite believable. Nableezy is saying that the Mukhimer source was introduced ]. You claim that "If you copy the reference from the previous version: 'Hamas' use of human shields in Gaza' (PDF), NATO Strategic Communications Centre of Excellence, and add it using the automatic reference tool, it changes it to: Mukhimer, Tariq (2013), Hamas and Human Rights, Hamas Rule in Gaza, New York: Palgrave Macmillan US, pp. 56–126, ISBN 978-1-349-45658-1, retrieved 2024-12-17." What automatic reference tool? And even if the tool is malfunctioning - you are responsible for your edits - especially in such a fraught topic area. Looking at the ] its pretty clear that the first citation is listing the author as "Mukhimer" which should have clued you in (if indeed the automatic tool is a problem) that there was an issue. And when Nableezy raised this issue on the talk page - you didn't actually try this explanation or even any explanation, you just replied "I thought you noticed and understood that I had updated the references." which is deeply concerning that you did not consider the fact that you inserted references that did not support the material (and yes, I did do a rapid read/skim of the Mukhimer work's chapter that was in that citation - the chapter is mostly concerned with Hamas' internal governance and human rights record. I saw nothing discussing human shields or even the war with Israel in that chapter (the chapter does discuss Hamas' actions against Gazans that Hamas accuses of spying/etc for Israel, but nothing about actual military conflict)). The lack of collaborative explanation and the seeming unconcern about the issues brought up are making me lean towards a topic ban, frankly. | |||
*: I apologize that it took me a while to circle back to this - yesterday was a day of small things breaking and needing to be taken care of and I didn't have the time in the afternoon that I expected to revisit this. ] (]) 14:27, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:: And add yet one more reason to not use VE.... if its some weird bug, then yes, a warning is sufficient. But, really, you need to double check when you use tools to make sure that there are not bugs (and yes, Visual Editor is buggy...) ] (]) 20:16, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I've gone on record saying that I consider source misrepresentation to be some of the most disruptive conduct in a contentious topic - it is insidious in a way that calling another editor names is not. That does not mean I support sanctions by default, but I do think we need to take such a report seriously. A lot depends on the specific circumstances - the second instance above seems like a very easy mistake to make - but I would like to hear from שלומית ליר. ] (]) 19:41, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:שלומית ליר, I would like to see a specific response to Nableezy's evidence about where you got your source, so please go ahead and strike or collapse parts of your original statement (please don't remove anything entirely). NB; we are (mostly) administrators enforcing arbitration decisions here, not arbitrators ourselves. ] (]) 21:19, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I agree with Vanamonde that source misrepresentation is disruptive on its face, and the first time I see it, AGF is pretty much gone. ] (]) 19:55, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:I agree that if this was a bug -- which is really concerning -- then a logged warning is overkill, especially given this editor's inexperience. ] (]) 15:19, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I'm not sure what "automatic reference tool" is being referred to here, but I'm generally not impressed with "It was the tool's fault." Editors are responsible for the edits they make, and while of course there's no problem with using tools to help, the editor, not the tool, is still responsible for ensuring that the final result accurately represents the sources which are cited. Overall, I'd tend toward Ealdgyth's line of thinking; source misrepresentation is an extremely serious form of misconduct and must under no circumstances be tolerated. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 15:39, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:{{u|שלומית ליר}}, it has now been necessary on several occasions to move your comments to the proper section from other editors' sections or this one. '''Do not comment outside your own section again.''' ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 09:13, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:Above stuff out of the way, if this actually is reproducible, it may be wise to check Phabricator to see if such an issue has been reported—chances are pretty good this isn't the only time that bug will bite. I'm good with a logged warning to more carefully vet the output of automated editing tools before making the edit, given that. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 09:16, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:: Isn't a logged warning a bit too much for not catching a bug? I'd rather go for a reminder as Nableezy suggests. Will check Phab or open a new phab ticket when I've got a bit more time. ] (]) 11:16, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:::I still don't ''love'' the whole thing, but it seems that most people want to just do an informal reminder, so I've got no strong objection (of course, as long as the bug actually does get reported, if it's not been already.) ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 17:49, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
* To my surprise, it's true that copying that text into VE's automatic citation formatter gives this output. Most absurd bug I've ever seen. Of course it's an editor's responsibility to check if the citation is correct, but this is not something you might think to check for, especially as a newer editor. While intentionally misrepresenting a source is highly disruptive, I don't think this weird error is sanctionable. I would like to give ] one piece of advice for editing a contentious topic like this: always use edit summaries (you can change your settings so that you're warned if you forget them). That can help reduce misunderstandings. ] (]) 19:05, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
* I agree with Femke about how to resolve this request, including the advice to check things and to use edit summaries. I am also extremely concerned about the bug-created citation issue and wonder where is the best place to request that the error be investigated and fixed. ] (]) 14:58, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
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==KronosAlight== | |||
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> | |||
===Request concerning KronosAlight=== | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Butterscotch Beluga}} 03:16, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|KronosAlight}}<p>{{ds/log|KronosAlight}}</p> | |||
{{hat|1=No Troubles violation. The edit warring on ] has not continued since 25 August. ] (]) 05:35, 28 August 2011 (UTC) }} | |||
===Request concerning Jonchapple=== | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : <font face="Celtic">]<sub>'']''</sub></font> 19:55, 25 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Jonchapple}} | |||
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | <!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | ||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: |
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] | ||
] "''All articles related to The Troubles, defined as: any article that could be reasonably construed as being related to The Troubles, Irish nationalism, and British nationalism in relation to Ireland...''" | |||
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | <!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | ||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | ; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | ||
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. --> | <!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.--> | ||
# |
# | ||
:*Adds "depiste being an ex-Muslim" to dismiss accusations of Islamophobia ]. | |||
# Revert IP no violation | |||
:*Adds ] around ‘promoted Islamophobia’ & ‘Islamophobia’ while removing the supporting context. | |||
# 2nd Revert (Issue has been discussed previously | |||
:*Changed "interpreted that statement as a threat and incitement to violence" to "claimed was a threat and incitement to violence, though no threats or violence in fact occurred" ] & ] | |||
# - ] | |||
:*Changes "Israeli settlers" to "Israeli soldiers" despite | |||
# - ] | |||
# - ] | |||
:* Unnecessarily specific additions that may constitute ] such as adding "against civilians" & changing "prevent the assassinations of many Israelis" to "prevent the assassinations of many Israeli civilians and soldiers" | |||
# - ] | |||
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : | |||
# 1st Revert | |||
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.--> | |||
# 2nd Revert | |||
# |
# Warned to abide by the one-revert rule when making edits within the scope of the Arab-Israeli conflict topic area. | ||
# Blocked from editing for 1 week for violating consensus required on the page ] | |||
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]): | |||
# 1st Revert (''reverting may also refer to any action that in whole or in part reverses the actions of other editors'') | |||
# 2nd Revert | |||
# 3rd Revert | |||
# 4th Revert | |||
*Previously given a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction or warned for conduct in the area of conflict on by {{admin|ScottishFinnishRadish}}. | |||
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) : | |||
*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on . | |||
<!-- Many arbitration remedies require a prior warning before sanctions may be imposed. Link to the warning here. --> | |||
#Warned on by {{user|EdJohnston}} | |||
#Warned on by {{user|EdJohnston}} | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :Having been notified on and offered advice this editor deleted the notices offered on this . The editor accuses me of if I revert any of their edits. Claims that because of me. Despite been placed on probation of 1RR per article per week on the 14th the very next day they keep reverting me on my talk page, despite having been asked not to post on the page. They have turned into battle fields, and prevaricating when challenged to , before descending to and blatant . I can't be bothered with this editor, and assuming good faith is out the window. Hopefully Admin's can discover what "potency" this editor wants to bring to Troubles related articles. | |||
All edits were made at ]. After I with an explanation, I , asking for their rationale. | |||
They replied that they were & asked if I "perhaps have a deeper bias that’s influencing decisions in this respect?" | |||
They then | |||
# Despite the claim by Jonchapple that this is not related, their own says the exact opposite. --<font face="Celtic">]<sub>'']''</sub></font> 20:34, 25 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
# Jonchapple describes any editor who ''correctly'' states that the the Ulster Banner is not the flag of Northern Ireland as a may explain the antagonism displayed, and their claims of "impotance" as a result of the sanctions imposed here.--<font face="Celtic">]<sub>'']''</sub></font> 20:40, 25 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
*Reply to Ed. While I've no problem with your reasoning, I would make the following observation. If this type of editing is not "Troubles" related:"''All articles related to The Troubles, defined as: any '''article that could be reasonably construed as being related to The Troubles''', Irish nationalism, and British nationalism in relation to Ireland falls under WP:1RR,''" I would cite another example to those I've outlined above. | |||
: ] - While I can't find any comments where they were explicitly ''"warned for casting aspersions"'', they were to ] in the topic area. | |||
'''*Example:''' ]. A run of the mill biography article on a Hollywood actor and it could hardly be ''reasonably construed as being'' "Troubles related." However, when you have a group of editors who edit Troubles Article, , that a reasonable conclusion is that any article were these editors revert and re-revert can quickly become Troubles related. The Articles I've outlined above fall into the exact pattern in my opinion.--<font face="Celtic">]<sub>'']''</sub></font> 18:16, 26 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
<!-- Add any further comment here --> | |||
:Also, apologies for my ''"diffs of edits that violate this sanction"'' section, this is the first time I've filed a request here & I thought it'd be best to explain the ''preamble'' to my revert, but I understand now that I misunderstood the purpose of that section & will remember such for the future. - ] (]) 15:37, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : Notice was . | |||
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request, and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. --> | |||
:@] I was able to find a copy of the opinion article being cited . ] (]) 20:14, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | <!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | ||
===Discussion concerning |
===Discussion concerning KronosAlight=== | ||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | |||
====Statement by |
====Statement by KronosAlight==== | ||
Oh, come off it. I've broken no restriction; they're hardly covered. What next, articles about anyone or anything from these islands? I also have evidence you've been actively monitoring my contributions and reverting my edits, so beware of the ]. ]] 20:08, 25 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:You may also like to note that on the third set of "reverts" you've cited above, the first two are evidence of Scolaire and I concurrently editing and collaborating to improve the UK article. If you look at the talk page, we're in agreement. No reverting there (no undoing another editor's work), just minor changes. ]] 21:10, 25 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
This is a complete waste of the Arbitration Committee’s time. | |||
1. I don't understand what point you're trying to make here – what on Earth does that diff and me clarifying what I believe the term "Britain and Ireland" to mean have to do with anything? The ] and ] articles clearly aren't subject to Troubles sanctions. Just look at the page histories and the number of editors that have broken the 1RR that would apply if they were. ]] 20:47, 25 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
1. That Yousef was born and raised a Muslim is important and neutral context for readers to be aware of when the article refers to claims of ‘Islamophobia’. | |||
2. Completely irrelevant to the issue at band. When did you last see me edit-warring, or even editing at all, on any Ulster Banner-related topics or articles? ]] 20:52, 25 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
2. The scarequotes indicate that the claim comes from the sources provided, rather than being an objective ‘fact’ determined by a few Misplaced Pages Editors with an axe to grind. | |||
::With all due respect, Ed, I hardly think changing "often" to "frequently" counts as a revert. I didn't undo another editor's actions; – the words mean effectively the same thing – merely changed the sentence to read bit less clumsily, so there weren't two "often"s in quick succession. ]] 07:12, 26 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:::That edit history merely shows that ]'s nationality is a confusing mess. I fail to see how trying to decide whether he's British, Irish or American or all three has anything to do with that particular conflict, other than the United Kingdom (and, informally, the Irish Republic) was involved in it. ]] 18:48, 26 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
3. This was already addressed on the Talk page and I updated the sentence to say settlers/soldiers with a further label that it needed further clarification because the source does not in fact unambiguously say what Butterscotch Beluga claims. | |||
====Statement by EdJohnston==== | |||
There is no Troubles violation that I can see, but the reverts listed above seem to show that JonChapple seems has broken the ] rule at ]. The wording changes may not look important, but people are actively reverting them back and forth. Here are some of the changes by JonC: | |||
A few lines above what Butterscotch Beluga quotes is the following lines: “AMANPOUR: How did you take part in that? Were you one of the small children who threw rocks at Israeli soldiers? | |||
:1. "often user the term as a short form of the United Kingdom" => "frequently use the term as a short form for the United Kingdom" | |||
YOUSEF: The model for every Palestinian child is a mujahid (ph) or a fidahi (ph) or a fighter. So, of course, I wanted to be one at that point of my life. It wasn't -- it's not my only dream. It's every child's dream in that territory.” | |||
:2. "Style guides of British media, as well as British government sources, allow the use of ''Britain'' for the United Kingdom..." => "British government sources often use the term as a short form of the United Kingdom, whilst media style guides generally allow its use.." | |||
The updated Wiki page noted both settlers/soldiers and included a note that this requires further clarification, perhaps based on other sources, because it isn’t clear (contra Butterscotch Beluga) whether he is referring to soldiers or settlers. | |||
:3 and 4. "an informal name for the United Kingdom" => "a short form for the United Kingdom" (he made this revert twice) | |||
4. It is not controversial to accurately describe Hamas as a terrorist organisation. It is simply a fact. To suggest otherwise is POV-pushing. | |||
There is some kind of a talk discussion at ]. Editors who have reverted JonC's changes include ], ], ] and ]. | |||
5. This is not POVPUSH; ‘assassinations’ against civilians during peacetime are usually called ‘murders’. | |||
This is a conventional 3RR violation, and if JonC persists, he may be conventionally blocked for edit warring, which the admins here could do if they agree. I don't see any need to invoke the authority of Arbcom. ] (]) 22:36, 25 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
I in fact didn’t even remove the word ‘assassinations’, I merely broadened the description from ‘Israelis’ to ‘Israeli civilians and soldiers’ (as Butterscotch accepted) to indicate the breadth of the individuals in question included both civilians and combatants. This is not POVPUSH, it is simply additional information and context verified in the source itself. | |||
====Comments by others about the request concerning Jonchapple==== | |||
Just like to mention, JonChapple's claims of harrassment by Domer48 should be looked at, as i believe Domer48 is trying his best to get JonChapple into trouble so that he can get him banned. JonChapple has raised such concerns to me previously of hounding, and i told them to gather what evidence they can so hopefully they have to show that whilst Domer48 is trying to get JonChapple into trouble for disruption, that Domer48 himself is being disruptive. | |||
All in all, a vexatious claim and a waste of the Arbitration Committee’s time. | |||
The 3RR situation in regards to Ireland articles is a joke as certain editors persue a gang-up policy to ensure none of them break the 3RR whilst getting another editor into trouble. ] <sup>]</sup> 11:18, 26 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Sean.hoyland==== | |||
===Result concerning Jonchapple=== | |||
Regarding "I was correcting factual errors introduced by previous antisemitic editors", it would be helpful if KronosAlight would explicitly identify the antisemitic editors and the edits they corrected so that they can be blocked for being antisemitic editors. ] (]) 08:17, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
<!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.--> | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.'' | |||
*I'm inclined to close this as no AE action needed, per EdJohnston, who is the admin who imposed the sanction originally, and therefore whose views on its scope are entitled to substantial deference. As to Jonchapple's claim of harassment, admins "are not like pigs, hunting for truffles buried in" contributions.<sup>{{plainlink|1=http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?hl=en&as_sdt=2,9&case=3106791975055099139&scilh=0|2=US v. Dunkel, 927 F. 2d 955}} (] 1991)</sup> Such claims need to be substantiated with diffs before they will be considered. ] (]) 12:12, 26 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
*'''Closing:''' No violation of the Troubles sanctions. The edit warring on ] has not continued since 25 August and does not appear serious enough to block for. ] (]) 05:35, 28 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
{{hab}} | |||
The editor has been here since 2012. It is reasonable to assume that they know the rules regarding aspersions. It is reasonable to assume they are intentionally violating them, presumably because they genuinely believe they are dealing with antisemitic editors. So, this report is somehow simultaneously a vexatious complete waste of time and the result of the someone interfering with their valiant efforts to correct errors made by antisemitic editors. Why do they have this belief? , a comment they had the good sense to revert. For me, this is an example of someone attempting to use propaganda that resembles antisemitic conspiracy theories about media control to undermine Misplaced Pages's processes and then changing their mind. But the very fact that they thought of it is disturbing. Their revert suggests that they are probably aware that there are things you can say about an editor and things you cannot say about an editor. From my perspective, what we have here is part of an emerging pattern in the topic area, a growing number of attacks on Misplaced Pages and editors with accusations of antisemitism, cabals etc. stemming in part from external partisan sources/influence operations. ] (]) 17:35, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Question regarding the TM case == | |||
====Statement by Zero0000==== | |||
Aspersions: | |||
* | |||
* | |||
* | |||
* | |||
]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 10:36, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Vice regent==== | |||
In the TM case we passed a number of previsions including one pertaining to ] It states that editor which "have only an indirect relationship" may continue to edit. What about editors who are members of the public relations department of the ] movement? Are they too allowed to continue editing or should their editing ability be restricted? Would stipulate the specifics off Wiki due concerns of releasing peoples identify if this is indeed a concern. ] (] · ] · ]) 04:44, 26 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
{{u|KronosAlight}}, you on 14 Dec 2024: "{{tq|An open letter signed by Christian and Muslim religious leaders interpreted that statement as a threat and incitement to violence}}" to "{{tq|An open letter signed by Christian and Muslim religious leaders claimed was a threat and incitement to violence, though no threats or violence in fact occurred}}". | |||
:This is better addressed to the Committee directly via ]. ] (]) 11:40, 26 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
::Thanks will bring it their.--] (] · ] · ]) 13:44, 26 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
Can you show where either of the sources state "though no threats or violence in fact occurred"? ''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 18:07, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
::Quote per TM arbitration for reference:(] (]) 15:46, 26 August 2011 (UTC)) | |||
====Statement by Smallangryplanet==== | |||
''...Editors who have or may be perceived as having a conflict of interest should review and comply with the applicable policies. These does not prohibit editors from working on articles about entities to which they have only an indirect relationship, but urges editors to be mindful of editing pitfalls that may result from such a relationship. For example, an editor who is a member of a particular organisation or holds a particular set of religious or other beliefs is not prohibited from editing articles about that organisation or those beliefs but should take care that his or her editing on that topic adheres to the neutrality policy and other key policies.'' | |||
Wanted to add some pertinent evidence: | |||
'''Talk:Zionism''': | |||
== Vecrumba 2 == | |||
* | |||
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.'' | |||
* | |||
* | |||
* | |||
'''Talk:Allegations of genocide in the 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon''': | |||
===Request concerning Vecrumba 2=== | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : ] (]) 02:55, 28 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
* | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Vecrumba}} | |||
'''Talk:Relations between Nazi Germany and the Arab world''': | |||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] | |||
* | |||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | |||
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. --> | |||
# | |||
'''Talk:2024 Lebanon electronic device attacks''': | |||
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) : | |||
#Vecrumba has been blocked ] for violating this ban | |||
* | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | |||
#Vecrumba has done a wholesale revert of Russavia on an article which subject is directly within Russavia's editing interests. Vecrumba states that it is a good faith revert, yet he also the bypassing of a redirect by Russavia, demonstrating that it is not a selective revert, but an outright revert. Vecrumba is obviously attempting harrass Russavia, and is breaching his interaction ban in a very provocative manner. Given the other issue of Vecrumba's personal attacks on Russavia (see above thread), a topic ban at the very least seems to be warranted for Vecrumba. | |||
'''Talk:Anti-Zionism''': | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
# | |||
* | |||
===Discussion concerning Vecrumba 2=== | |||
* | |||
'''Talk:Gaza genocide''': | |||
====Statement by Vecrumba==== | |||
* | |||
This filing is nothing but a personal attack by Nanobear, who has been absent from the topic area or proceedings other than to attack me or to make out my complaints about his attacks as being attacks originated by myself. If you want to stop the madness, ban everyone who has participated in any of these from ever filing arbitration enforcement requests against each other. What, I undo a POV delete of content, and that is editorial interaction which is banned, yet the same editor can attack me at will at arbitration enforcement? Am I the only one who sees how ludicrous this is? Don't make me out to be the villain when I undo the deletion of reputable content by an editor inimical to the Baltics—a deletion which was accompanied a edit justification which was a personal characterization of a reputable source as unsubstantiated allegations. As requested, I undid my revert of that deletion, although that does set the precedent that in any set of editors who are banned from interacting, <u>'''whoever gets there first automatically gets to have their content win with no recourse for the other editor(s)'''</u>. Given that Baltic topics are down to two or three editors who haven't been run off, this filing by Nanobear to get me blocked is, effectively, a cynical and overt bid for topic control. And as long as Nanobear and Russavia engage in provocative behavior gaming the system to eliminate editors, the atmosphere will remain poisoned. ]<small> ►]</small> 23:03, 29 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
* | |||
'''Talk:Nuseirat rescue and massacre''': | |||
====Comments by others about the request concerning Vecrumba 2==== | |||
* | |||
====Comment by Volunteer Marek==== | |||
'''Talk:Al-Sardi school attack''': | |||
So much for the idea that AE reconciles warring parties or actually manages to solve problems. As this retaliatory AE request clearly demonstrates, AE makes battlegrounds WORSE, by providing dedicated warriors a venue to pursue their grudges. And yes, you AE admins are to blame for this - discussing some esoteric nuances of what an interaction ban is or arguing over whether a series of reverts/AfD nominations/drive-by-tagging by a user under an interaction ban actually constitutes a violation of an interaction ban or are content edits not included (seriously? The whole freakin' point of these bans is to get users separated from content they perennial fight over! How hard is it to see that?) is exactly the kind of thing that pours gasoline on these fires (where the hell is Sandstein? I miss him - he got things wrong sometimes but at least he didn't make things worse). | |||
* | |||
Enjoy: ] | |||
'''Talk:Eden Golan''': | |||
You want to end this, it's simple: | |||
* | |||
#Topic-ban Martin and Vecrumba from editing anything related to Aviation or Embassies (which is mostly where Russavia edits) as well as the Russian space program (which is where Nanobear edits) | |||
#Topic-ban Russavia and Nanobear from editing anything related to Estonia, Latvia, Poland or Ukraine (for good measure throw in Hungary and Romania, where there's been trouble in the past). For the most part the aviation/embassy/space program articles for these countries have already been written, can be written by someone else or don't need to be written. This way both of them can do the good they do on Misplaced Pages - contribute content - without the bad they do - keep fucking with Estonian/Baltic/Polish/Ukrainian editors for no reason except some kind of way old grudge. | |||
#Prohibit all of these parties from filing any AE/AN-I/similar drama board requests against each other (hell, throw me in there too) or from commenting on AE/AN-I/similar drama board requests related to each other. | |||
'''Other sanctions''': | |||
If you're feeling nice then include some kind of provision to the effect that any of the above can be appealed after three years or so (note that this latest round is a rehash of '''two year old''' edit wars! Apparently people here have a long memory in this topic area. That needs to be taken into consideration). And if you're feeling wary of potential gaming then make scary faces and wag your fingers and say in a deep baritone that any potential gaming of these sanctions will be severely punished (I'm being a bit facetious, but I'm serious at the same time - this whole thing started because of gaming of interaction bans). | |||
* March 2024: for ], ], etc | |||
Otherwise prepare to loose more good contributors, deal with a whole bunch of nonsense and look forward to playing a role in escalating the conflict further. But hey, at least then that will give WP:AE a justification for its existence. | |||
* June 2024: to abide by 1RR | |||
* October 2024: for a week | |||
====Statement by (username)==== | |||
] (]) 04:44, 28 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. --> | |||
===Result concerning |
===Result concerning KronosAlight=== | ||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
<!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.--> | |||
* Much of the "diffs of edits that violate this sanction" fail to explain "how these edits violate" the sanction - to me, much of these diffs look like a content dispute. However, the "additional comments" section DOES have a diff that is concerning and violates the CT by casting an aspersion that is not backed up by a diff - the "antisemitic editors" diff. Has KA been previously warned for casting aspersions? If they have, I'm inclined to issue a topic ban, but many other editors get a warning for this if they lack a previous warning. The diffs brought up by Zero (not all of which I necessarily see as aspersions, but the "Jew-hatred" one is definitely over the line - but it's from September so a bit late to sanction for just that) - did anyone point out that aspersions/incivility in this topic area is sanctionable? I see the warnings for 1RR and consensus required... ] (]) 13:30, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.'' | |||
** {{ping|KronosAlight}} - can you address the fact that saying "correcting factual errors introduced by previous antisemitic editors" and "Is there no limits you will not cross in order to seek to justify your Jew-hatred"? Neither of these are statements that should ever be made - and the fact that you seem to not to understand this is making me lean towards a topic ban. ] (]) 14:45, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*At my request Vecrumba has at ]. The overall problem of how to keep Russavia and the EEML editors out of each others' hair is still being considered above, in a previous report which is still open. ] (]) 14:08, 28 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
*KronosAlight, can you please provide quotes from the references you cited for - for instance - "for his terrorist activities" in , showing that the sources explicitly supported the content you added? Calling a person or an organization is perfectly acceptable if you support that with reliable sources; if it is original research, or source misrepresentation, it isn't acceptable. I cannot access some of the sources in question. You may provide quotes inside a collapsed section if you wish to save space. ] (]) 19:28, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:I missed Zero's comments earlier. A lot of those comments, while concerning, are generic, not directed at a specific editor. , however, is beyond the pale. I would need some convincing that this user is able to edit this area constructively. ] (]) 20:56, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*::@], can you please respond to this? I too am concerned...the quote you're objecting to wasn't from DrSmarty. It was a ''direct quote'', scare quotes and all, from the US Holocaust Memorial Museum. You seem to have reacted to it as if it were DrSmarty. ] (]) 16:06, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I don't like to sanction ''in absentia'', and I'm not yet suggesting we do so, but I want to note that not choosing not to respond here, or going inactive to avoid responding, will not improve the outcome as far as I am concerned. ] (]) 17:20, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:They're a pretty sporadic editor...many edits over a period of a few days, then nothing for two weeks. Maybe we pin this until they edit again? ] (]) 17:26, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*::I agree with Valereee that this editors contribution history shows a pattern of editing for a day or two at a time followed by several weeks of inactivity. So I don't think it's fair to say they went inactive here but also holding this open for multiple weeks waiting for a response places some burden on the other other interested editors. ] (]) 17:33, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. --> | |||
*<!-- | |||
--> | |||
== |
==Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Nicoljaus== | ||
<small>''Procedural notes: Per the ], a "clear and substantial consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.''</small> | |||
<small>'' |
<small>''To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections{{space}}but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see ]).''</small> | ||
; Appealing user : {{userlinks| |
; Appealing user : {{userlinks|Nicoljaus}} – ] (]) 13:09, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | ||
; Sanction being appealed : To enforce an ], and for edit warring, and , you have been ''']''' '''indefinitely''' from editing Misplaced Pages. | |||
; Sanction being appealed : Topic banned for 3 months | |||
http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Result_concerning_Someone35 | |||
; Administrator imposing the sanction : {{admin| |
; Administrator imposing the sanction : {{admin|ScottishFinnishRadish}} | ||
; Notification of that administrator : ] | ; Notification of that administrator : I'm aware. ] (]) 13:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | ||
===Statement by |
===Statement by Nicoljaus=== | ||
I got banned less than half a day after my first ban ended. I haven't edited anything that is not a talk page or my userpage since then. The admin who banned me said I'm banned for breaking rules, but they explicitly state that " impose sanctions on any editor working in the area of conflict if, despite being warned, that editor repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages". And I wasn't warned (which is also required, "Prior to any sanctions being imposed, the editor in question shall be given a warning with a link to this decision". I wasn't given any warning before he banned me.) and I didn't edit any page since before my first ban. This ban is really unnecessary. If you think that my interactions with Nableezy are problematic then give me an interaction ban with him and not a 3 months long topic ban. I removed the sentence that I was banned for in the moment I saw that other users complained about it (and the userboxes on my talk page). I have only made about 3 edits that count as "disruptive" (2 at Qula and one at Palestinian rabbis), all in the same day and I already got banned for it and won't do this kind of edits again.--<span style="background-color: #75ab00; border:1.5px solid #bad57f; font-family:Segoe Print; font-size:80%;"> ] ] </span> 05:28, 28 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
The circumstances of my blocking were: | |||
===Statement by Zero0000 (somewhat involved)=== | |||
*I was looking for a Misplaced Pages account for ] to add it to Wikidata. I couldn't find it, so I did a little research. The in the article indicated that she participated in some '''WikiWrites'''(?) project. I didn’t find such a project, but I found the '''WikiRights''' project: https://ar.wikipedia.org/ويكيبيديا:ويكي_رايتس. It was organized by a certain Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor. I read the ] article and didn't see any outside perspective, "controversy" or anything like that, just self-representation. I surfed the Internet and instantly found information that must be in the article to comply with the NPOV. I started adding {{diff2|1220241573}}, everything went well for two days. Then: | |||
As far as I know, Someone35 is yet to acknowledge that he did anything wrong at all. On the contrary, he thinks the 1RR rule is | |||
*12:53, 23 April 2024 - Zero0000 made a complete cancellation of all additions {{diff2|1220380219}}</br> | |||
. Is that attitude conducive to a reprieve? Where can we see a clear statement that he respects the rules and undertakes to abide by them? ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 11:11, 29 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
*13:14, 23 April 2024 - (20 minutes later!) Selfstudier wrote on my TP {{diff2|1220382377}}</br> | |||
*14:20 - 14:22, 23 April 2024 - With two edits ({{diff2|1220390536|first}}, {{diff2|1220390820|second}}) I partially took into account the comment of Zero0000 about "ethnic marking", but returned the last {{Diff||1220390820|1220380219}}.</br> | |||
*14:27, 23 April 2024 (7 minutes later!!) Selfstudier makes a second complete cancellation of all my edits, blaming POV editing {{diff2|1220391708}}</br> | |||
*14:45, 23 April 2024 - I’m returning the version where I partially took into account Zero0000’s comments (removed "ethnic marking"){{diff2|1220394447}}</br> | |||
*15:10, 23 April 2024 - Selfstudier accuses me of 1RR breach. In the dialogue, I explained that the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination. My first undo was part of a counter edit ]</br> | |||
*15:41, 23 April 2024 Selfstudier writes on Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement {{diff2|1220403117}}</br> | |||
*16:10, 23 April 2024 (30 minutes later!) ScottishFinnishRadish issues an indefinite block {{diff2|1220407252}}. No opportunity to write my “statement”, as well as an extremely bad faith interpretation of my remark as "an intent to game 1rr".</br> | |||
Given that the both Selfstudier and Zero0000 are currently being discussed in Arbcom (https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_5/Evidence), I humbly ask you to take a fresh look at my indefinite block and soften the restrictions in some way". ] (]) 19:32, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:{{yo|ScottishFinnishRadish}} - You {{diff2|1263932187||mean}}, I need to discuss my previous edit war blocks? Well, the last one was almost four years ago and that time I simply forgot that I was under 1RR (there was a big break in editing) and tried to get sources for a newly added map, and the opponent refused to do so {{diff2|983337359}}. As it turned out later, the true source was a book by a fringe author, which the RSN called "Usual nationalistic bullshit, no sign of reliability". Yes, it was a stupid forgetfulness on my part. ] (]) 16:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:{{yo|Aquillion}} {{tq| Even if you were correct that Selfstudier & Zero0000 were WP:TAGTEAMing (always a tricky accusation, because it's hard to separate that from just your edits being so obviously problematic that two people independently reverted them)}} -- That's why I wrote that my "so problematic edits" attracted attention only after two days, but two users appeared within 20 minutes. However, after months, a lot of data about the cooperation of these users appeared (and this is not my imagination): "While a single editor, Shane (a newbie), advocated for its inclusion, a trio of veterans including Zero0000, Nishidani and Selfstudier fought back. After Selfstudier accused Shane of being a troll for arguing for the photo’s inclusion, Zero0000, days later, “objected” to its inclusion, citing issues of provenance. Nishidani stepped in to back up Zero0000, prompting a response by Shane. The following day, Zero0000 pushed back against Shane, who responded. The day after, Nishidani returned with his own pushback. The tag-team effort proved too much for Shane, who simply gave up, and the effort succeeded: the photo remains absent" . I'll add that after Selfstudier accused Shane of trolling, Zero0000 appeared on Shane's page and said: "Kindly keep your insults to yourself I won't hesitate to propose you for blocking if you keep it up" {{diff2|1017316378}}. According to the table at the link , these two users cooperated like this 720 times. Probably hundreds of people were embittered, forced out of the project, or led to blocking like me.--] (]) 13:02, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:{{ping|ScottishFinnishRadish}} Hello, thank you very much for transferring my remarks, now I understand how it works. I would like to clarify the issue of meatpuppetry. You directly accused me of such intentions in justifying the block, and now this accusation has been repeated {{diff2|1264013557}}. Let's figure out whether that Selfstudier and Zero0000 are working too closely was so absurd? Was it really and remains so absurd that it could not be perceived as anything other than my self-exposure? I don't think so.</br> | |||
As for the "edit war" - I understand that edit wars are evil. In the spirit of cooperation, I tried to meet my opponents halfway, as in this case, taking into account their claim, which I could understand, in the counter edit. If such an action is also considered an edit war and a violation of the 1RR/3RR rule - I will of course avoid it in the future.--] (]) 16:00, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
@Valereee: Hello, I understand your point that edit wars can be disruptive, particularly in a CTOP context. However, I believe it is essential to recognize that not all reverts carry the same implications. While it is true that a revert is a revert, the context and intent behind the action should also be taken into account. In this instance, I made efforts to address the concerns of the other party involved, which reflects a willingness to engage in dialogue rather than simply reverting. | |||
:I meant that this rule is easy to bypass not that it's stupid that people can't revert other people's edits for an infinite amount of time. Also according to ] I was supposed to get a warning before the ban, and I didn't. If T. Canens gave me a warning that I'll get another ban I would have stopped immediately doing whatever I did.--<span style="background-color: #75ab00; border:1.5px solid #bad57f; font-family:Segoe Print; font-size:80%;"> ] ] </span> 12:30, 29 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
Furthermore, I acknowledge your reference to the 1RR/3RR rule and my history of blocks for edit-warring. However, given the amount of time that has passed, I believe I have gained valuable insights and learned a great deal. Moreover, given this topic, I think I actually learned something unlike the other side, whose history of blocks for edit-warring remains clean.--Nicoljaus (talk) 4:24 am, Today (UTC−5) | |||
{{re|Valereee}} In response to {{diff2|1264999031||this}}, I can say that I already know very well how carelessly admins impose blocks. If any further statements are needed from me, just ping me. With best regards.--] (]) 09:51, 25 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
===Statement by Demiurge1000 (uninvolved)=== | |||
I'm going to use this section to note the deep and presumably unintentional irony of what Russavia said in the now-closed ] (i.e. his first appeal, above). "Any editor who attacks another editor using either nationality, race, religion, etc as the underlying basis of the attack should be shown the door immediately." Does etc include age? If so, it seems odd to follow that sentence immediately with a disrespectful comment based on Someone35's age. (I'll assume that the threat to contact someone in a position of authority over Someone35 was made entirely in jest; people have received lengthy bans from Misplaced Pages, never mind the topic area, for that sort of thing.) | |||
===Statement by ScottishFinnishRadish=== | |||
I think Someone35 should immediately retract any suggestion (anywhere) that Nableezy or others are "stalking" him, and apologise for the "anti-Semite" remark (I note he removed it some time ago anyway, but I think he needs to accept that his reasons for thinking it was justifiable were incorrect). Then I think some consideration should be given to shortening or otherwise ameliorating this topic ban. --] (]) 12:45, 28 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
Absent from the appeal is discussion of the five prior edit warring blocks and any indication that they will not resume edit warring. ] (]) 13:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:I said {{tq|They have a long history of edit warring, so I'd like to see that addressed rather than blaming others}} above, twelve days ago. ] (]) 16:30, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:{{u|Nicoljaus}}, you should be focusing on convincing people that you won't edit war in the future rather than more ]. ] (]) 13:11, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
===Statement by (involved editor 1)=== | |||
===Statement by (involved editor 2)=== | |||
* Just a note that Someone35 won't be able to act promptly on the first half of my suggestions as, according to his talkpage, he's offline until sometime on 30th August. --] (]) 18:51, 28 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
===Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Nicoljaus === | |||
:I'm back, I was away for only 1.5 days and there were no traffic jams so I came back fast. I already removed the userboxes on my talk page and the problematic sentence in Hebrew about Nableezy and the Jerusalem Talmud. According to ], I was supposed to get a warning before being banned (like Nableezy told me to revert my edits at ] before the first time I was banned), and I didn't. If T. Canens would have given a warning to me then I would have stopped immediately whatever wrong I did--<span style="background-color: #75ab00; border:1.5px solid #bad57f; font-family:Segoe Print; font-size:80%;"> ] ] </span> 12:35, 29 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. <br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | |||
===Statement by |
====Statement by Simonm223==== | ||
looks like a bright-line ] violation via ] and ] - and removing BLP violations are generally somewhere where there is some latitude on ] which makes the actions of Zero0000 and Selfstudier more justified, not less. ] (]) 13:50, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
The editor chose to engage in personal attacks against another editor, and then when caught out they say that the editor has no right to complain because it was written in Hebrew. This, in my opinion, is more egregious, as he has not only chosen to engage in personal attacks (which is already enough to be shown the door), but has done so in another language in an attempt to avoid being caught, and then when challenged on it he doesn't see any problem with it. And he only got a topic ban? I'd say he got off light, as if I were the subject of a personal attack, I'd be pushing for a complete block for at least that period of time, given that the editor in question sees nothing wrong with making personal attacks on other editors. --] <sup>]</sup> 20:06, 29 August 2011 (UTC} | |||
:If I wanted to curse him or something like that I would have written it on his talk page in English. I removed that sentence in the moment I saw he complained about it (in order to prevent situations like this). If you think there's a problem with my interactions with Nableezy then why didn't I get an interaction ban instead? I should have got a warning before being banned, and I didn't. Why? I haven't done anything offensive and didn't edit any pages that are not talk pages or my userpage in the past week, then why did I get a ban without a warning?--<span style="background-color: #75ab00; border:1.5px solid #bad57f; font-family:Segoe Print; font-size:80%;"> ] ] </span> 05:02, 30 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
===Statement by |
====Statement by Aquillion==== | ||
:@Russ-Civility is totally independent of the area in conflict. A topic ban would not be the appropriate punishment for personal attacks - a comprehensive block (typically 24 hours first offense) would be fair. The problem I have is this kid has zero record, no prior blocks, and no accusations since he started an account however many months ago. I don't understand how a '''72 hour block''' can mutate into a 3-month topic ban pending appeal (not even a timed ban). Nableezy himself said the conflict was ended after Someone removed his statement: | |||
<blockquote> I cant say that there is presently an issue. A fourteen year old child said something stupid, it has been removed, end of story as far as I am concerned. Should this child be allowed to continue editing such topics? Not my decision, and not really sure if that is a question to decide here.</blockquote> | |||
:Someone removed the comment when he was able to (blocked for 72 hours) and that seemed to settle things. Editors aren't expected to humiliate themselves to prove their ability to edit productivity. He violated basic civility rules by accusing one editor of being anti-semitic. He has stricken the statements, thus admitting the comments were unacceptable. Beyond that I don't see any other behavioral problems. Nableezy filed the original AE, does he/she believe this Someone "child" deserves such a long topic ban? ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 23:00, 29 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
::, I find myself struggling to defend Someone's behavior. As an obviously young editor I would hope administrators would be more forgiving in situations like these. An editor with a vested interest in a crucial area of Misplaced Pages must understand the dynamic process of collaboration and contribution. I'd say many editors start out with a very SOAPY/opinionated mentality, but eventually normalize themselves with typical procedure and policy. | |||
{{tq|Selfstudier accuses me of 1RR breach. In the dialogue, I explained that the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination. My first undo was part of a counter edit}} - I feel like this is obvious enough that I probably don't have to point it out, but "counter edit" is not a ] / ] exception. Even if you were correct that Selfstudier & Zero0000 were ]ing (always a tricky accusation, because it's hard to separate that from just your edits being so obviously problematic that two people independently reverted them), it ''still'' would not justify your revert. The fact that they're parties to an ArbCom case (which hasn't even yet found any fault with them!) doesn't change any of this. You should probably read ]. --] (]) 14:15, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
Someone35 meets this definition. The topic ban imposed on Someone is punitive in nature and will not alter his behavior. How else will he learn the rules if he can't experience the environment? If admins wish to alter Someone's behavior, a whole-sale topic ban is futile. Throwing out users like Someone only deters potential editors from joining the very saturated and almost clan-like pool of I/P users. Someone's original 72 hour block was justified, but the 3 month ban is - ultimately - very hard to support when looking at the evidence independent of commentary from involved users. A personal attack, one edit-war (and barely one), and obvious civility problems. These can be rectified through mentorship, and punished with short blocks. It might be hard for educated admins to understand the brain chemistry of a young editor. Perhaps a user who is closer to his age (openly of course) could weigh in? ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 06:47, 30 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Sean.hoyland==== | |||
:I was trying to be nicer to him by talking with him about a subject that he seems to be interested in (israeli palestinian conflict), but it went nowhere so I deleted that section--<span style="background-color: #75ab00; border:1.5px solid #bad57f; font-family:Segoe Print; font-size:80%;"> ] ] </span> 08:00, 30 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
"the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination"...yet another conspiracy-minded evidence-free accusation against editors in the PIA topic area, the third one at AE in just a few days. ] (]) 14:59, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
===Statement by |
====Statement by (uninvolved editor 1)==== | ||
The original block was longer than precedent would point to being acceptable. The ban was without any admin actually attempting to counsel the guy. The disruption of edit warring was handled with the block. The incivility was much less than many in the community have gotten away with or received shorter bans for (name calling, legal threats, and so on). Although I would not blame it on him being a kid (if he wants to hang out on the internet he will learn to not divulge information others can use against him) I would blame it on inexperience. I do think he needs to grovel a bit. That is what the admins are looking for. It is wrong of them but that is what they want. | |||
===Result of the appeal by Nicoljaus=== | |||
His offenses are worthy of a strong warning and a good mentoring. Not a long block based off of one editor running into trouble with several others on an opposing side. But if he refuses to admit wrong I don't care what happens to him. | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
*I do not see any indication that Nicoljaus actually realizes the problem. The edit warring blocks were indeed some time ago, but one might think they would remember it after being blocked for it repeatedly, not to mention that being issued a CTOP notice might call a CTOP restriction to mind. And the remark in question sure looks to me like a threat to game 1RR via ], too. Given all that, I would decline this appeal. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 23:10, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
* I see nothing in this appeal that makes me think they've taken on board the changes that they'd need to do to be a productive editor. It reads to me like "my block was bad, here's why", and that's not working as a reason for me to support unblocking. ] (]) 23:21, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
* Nicoljaus, what we need to see is you demonstrating you understand edit-warring at a CTOP, which is what you were blocked for, and convincing us you won't do it again. Arguing the block should be lifted because other editors did something you thought looked suspicious isn't going to convince us. <small>Just FWIW, Nicoljaus, the source doesn't actually say {{xt|these two users cooperated like this 720 times}}. It says they edited the same articles 720 times, and that's not unusual. Most editors see the same other editors over and over again in articles about their primary interest. And edit by editor 1>2 days>revert by editor 2>revert by editor 1>20 minutes>revert by editor 3 is also not at all unusual anywhere on the encyclopedia and isn't evidence of tag-teaming. People read their watch lists. Any editor with that article on their watchlist, which is nearly fifty editors, might have investigated the large revert of an edit by an experienced editor at a contentious topic.</small> ] (]) 15:18, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:@], it's not that edit wars are evil. It's that they're disruptive, and particularly in a CTOP we really really don't need additional disruption and drama. A revert is a revert, even if you {{xt|tried to meet my opponents halfway, as in this case, taking into account their claim, which I could understand, in the counter edit}}. Re: {{xt|If such an action is also considered an edit war and a violation of the 1RR/3RR rule}}: a revert is a revert and is covered in the policy around reversions. And you have a history of blocks for edit-warring, including at other CTOPs. | |||
*:It's been seven months since the block. I'm trying to come around to a way to at least allow this editor a ''chance'' to show us they've taken this stuff on board...maybe a 0RR at all CTOPs? ] (]) 17:44, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*::@], re {{xt|I believe it is essential to recognize that not all reverts carry the same implications. While it is true that a revert is a revert, the context and intent behind the action should also be taken into account. In this instance, I made efforts to address the concerns of the other party involved, which reflects a willingness to engage in dialogue rather than simply reverting}}. Some editors at talk pages will take your apparent intentions into account. Some will just take you to ANEW. Some admins at ANEW will take your apparent intentions into account. Some will just reblock you. | |||
*::''No one anywhere is promising that your intentions will be taken into account'' -- or even that they'll try to figure out what your intentions are -- and therefore it's ''completely your responsibility'' to read the situation you're in correctly. If you read it wrong, you're likely to be blocked again, and honestly another block for edit-warring at a CTOP is likely to be another indef, and it would absolutely not surprise me for the blocking admin to require 12 months to appeal. ] (]) 15:25, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:::No need to reply, but I'll tell you plainly I've been trying to give you opportunities to convince other admins here, and you keep wanting to dig the hole deeper. I'd support an unblock with an editing restriction of 0RR at any article with a CTOPs designation on the talk page. ] (]) 13:13, 25 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
<!-- When closing this request (once there is a consensus) use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} if at AE, or an archive/discussion box template if on AN, inform the user on their talk page and note it in the contentious topics log below where their sanctions is logged. --> | |||
==PerspicazHistorian== | |||
You are involved and biased Zero. ] (]) 05:22, 30 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> | |||
===Request concerning PerspicazHistorian=== | |||
===Comment by Malik Shabazz (involved)=== | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|NXcrypto}} 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
Having spoken with Someone35 earlier today, I believe he is a very young editor who needs to learn quite a bit about how Misplaced Pages operates. I don't know whether a complete overturn of his topic ban is appropriate, but if it stands I think it should be narrowed to the Arab–Israeli conflict (and not the whole Middle East) so Someone35 can contribute constructively to articles on non-controversial subjects related to Israel (nature, geography, etc.). I think he would benefit tremendously from mentorship; if nobody else steps forward to mentor him, I will do it myself. — ] <sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub> 21:00, 30 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|PerspicazHistorian}}<p>{{ds/log|PerspicazHistorian}}</p> | |||
===Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Someone35 === | |||
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
===Result of the appeal by Someone35=== | |||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] | |||
== Jingiby == | |||
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | |||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | |||
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.'' | |||
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.--> | |||
# - removed "discrimination" sidebar from the page of ] (fascist ideology) even though the sidebar was inserted inside a section, not even the lead. | |||
# - tag bombed the highly vetted ] article without any discussion or reason | |||
# - attributing castes to people withhout any sources | |||
# - edit warring to impose the above edits after getting | |||
# - just like above, but this time he also added unreliable sources | |||
# - still edit warring and using edit summaries instead of talk page for conversation | |||
# - filed an outrageous report on WP:ANI without notifying any editors. This report was closed by Bbb23 as "{{tq|This is nothing but a malplaced, frivolous personal attack by the OP.}}" | |||
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : | |||
===Request concerning Jingiby=== | |||
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.--> | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : ] ] 18:26, 28 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
*Already 2 blocks in last 4 months for edit warring. | |||
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]): | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | |||
<!-- Add any further comment here --> | |||
I do not see any positive signs that this editor will ever improve. So far he has only regressed. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Jingiby}} | |||
:While going through this report, PerspicazHistorian has made another highly problematic edit by edit warring and misrepresenting the sources to label the organisation as "terrorist". This primary source only provides a list of organisations termed by the Indian government as "terrorist" contrary to ]. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 03:12, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] | |||
Dscretionary sanctions | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | |||
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request (you may use {{subst:AE-notice|thread name}}), and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. --> | |||
* 3RR violation at ], edit-warring against two other users on two distinct issues: | |||
# | |||
# | |||
# | |||
#. Attempt at discussion proved utterly futile and was met with complete stonewalling | |||
* Several other slow edit-wars on other articles, mostly against {{user|Lunch for Two}} | |||
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) : | |||
* Has extensive history of prior ARBMAC sanctions, most recently a full-year ban from 2009 to 2010 | |||
* Recent warning by myself see above. | |||
===Discussion concerning PerspicazHistorian === | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | |||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | |||
The current conduct is a return to an old and very constant pattern of stubborn agenda editing; see block log. Jingiby's current opponent, {{user|Lunch for Two}}, is not much better in terms of edit-warring and is certainly just as opinionatetd and tendentious, but appears to be slightly more sensible in discussion. He would also be in for a sanction, but it seems he hasn't had an ARBMAC warning yet. <s>Unless, that is, he is in fact a returning sock; I have a suspicion he is {{user|Mactruth}}, who is permanently banned from the topic area.</s> ] ] 18:26, 28 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:: Note: Struck out the bit above about the sock suspicion; having interacted a bit more with Lunch now I can confidently say he behaves far more reasonably in discussion than Mactruth ever did. ] ] 08:39, 30 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by PerspicazHistorian ==== | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
By far I am also concerned how my edits were forcefully reverted without a proper reason despite providing enough references. Please check how I am getting attacked by them on ] Page. | |||
I didn't know about the three-revert-rule before ] told me about this: ]. | |||
Please grant me one more chance, I will make sure not to edit war.<br> | |||
In the below statement by LukeEmily, As a reply I just want to say that I was just making obvious edit on ] by adding a list of notable people with proper references. And according to ] it is clearly said: "Edits from a slanted point of view, general insertion or removal of material, or other good-faith changes are not considered vandalism." It was a good faith edit but others reverted it. I accept my mistake of not raising it on talk page as a part of ].<br> | |||
As a clarification to my edit on ], it can be clearly seen that I provided enough reference to prove its a terrorist organisation as seen in this . I don't know why is there a discussion to this obvious edit? Admins please correct me if I am wrong. | |||
:@], Yes I read about 1RR and 0RR revert rules in ]. I now understand the importance of raising the topic on talk page whenever a consensus is needed. Thank You ! ] (]) 07:16, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
::Yes, I will commit to that. ] (]) 13:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC) <small>Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 13:19, 20 December 2024 (UTC) </small> | |||
:At that time I was new to how AFD discussions worked. Later on when ] was marked for deletion, I respected the consensus by not interfering in it. The article was later deleted. ] (]) 11:54, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
::Hi @] , I just checked your user page. You have 16 years (I am 19) of experience on wiki, you must be right about me. I agree that my start on Misplaced Pages has been horrible, but I am learning a lot from you all. I promise that I will do better, get more neutral here and contribute to the platform to my best. Please don't block me. | |||
::''<small>P.S.- I don't know If I will be blocked or what , according to this enforcement rules, I just want to personally wish good luck to you for your ongoing cancer treatments, You will surely win this battle of Life. Regards.</small>'' ] (]) 12:23, 21 December 2024 (UTC)<small>Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section.] (]) 15:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)</small> | |||
=== |
====Statement by LukeEmily==== | ||
PerspicazHistorian also violated ] by engaging in an edit war with {{u|Ratnahastin}} who reverted his edits and restored an article to a stable version by admin. Also, I want to assume good faith but it is surprising that PerspicazHistorian claims that he did not know the three revert rule given that he has more than 800 edits.] (]) | |||
====Statement by |
====Statement by Doug Weller==== | ||
I'm involved so just commenting. I don't think this editor is competent. I had to give them a community sanction caste warning as they were making a mess of castes. See this earlier version of their talk page.]https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:PerspicazHistorian&oldid=1262289249] and ]'s comment that "It was very unwise of you to keep moving ] to article space when it has not passed review. As a direct result of your actions, a deletion discussion is taking place, and when this is complete and the article is deleted, you will be prevented from recreating it. ] (]) 14:44, 4 December 2024 (UTC)" There have also been copyright issues. I strongly support a topic ban. ] ] 11:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
My position is as follows: without to boast, I am one of the most informed editors on the Macedonian issue on English Misplaced Pages. With one too long, formal block, the accuracy of the most of the articles connected with the Macedonian question will deteriorate, due to the persistent nationalism implemented there by numerous socks from a blocked users, as well as by different IP-vandals. They never will be blocked really or banned formally unlike me. My last block for a year was without serious reason and done more spontaneous then reasonable. | |||
:::I won't be involved in the decision. No more treatments for me, just coast until... ] ] 12:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
===Result concerning PerspicazHistorian === | |||
====Comments by others about the request concerning Jingiby==== | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
As the editor clearly does not get it, a one-year block is clearly justified, and I would be somewhat inclined to ] the editor as having exhausted the community's patience. --] <sup>]</sup> 20:12, 29 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
{{u|PerspicazHistorian}}, can you explain your understanding of ] and the ] rule? I'd like you to read thoroughly enough to also explain wny someone may be edit warring ''even if they aren't breaking 3RR''. ] (]) 21:58, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
I have no account but I would like to share my opinion here. I don't know where the user exhausted the community's parience, but if you see his contribs you will see that if he wasn't in this site, the most Balkan pages would have become blatant POVs and propaganda, and the activity of manipulative POV-pushing in some of these pages is still extremely high and in some of them no one reverts it except him. Soon POV-pushing there was in ], ] and ] for example, where some editors were removing mass of reliable sources and information, separetely placing POV manipulation, which free editors with disruptive character who only delete information should be blocked much more than a user who only broke the 3rr, in the case surely provoked by POV-pushing. These editors are surely trying to make him nationalistic edit-warrior when he broke the 3rr, but if you check his contribs you will see that the user has not disruptive character neither tendencous editing, one of the best examples for neutrality. I don't know what are the standarts for four reverts, but if he is blocked for a year some editors are going to have fun with some pages in the site, seriously. ] (]) 19:49, 30 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. --> | |||
:@], that explanation of edit warring is a bit wanting. An edit war is when two or more editors revert content additions/removals repeatedly. Even a second reversion by the same editor can be considered edit warring. Best practice -- and what I highly recommend, especially for any inexperienced editor -- is ''the first time'' someone reverts an edit of yours, go to the talk page, open a section, ping the editor who reverted you, and discuss. Do you think you can commit to that? | |||
:<small>Re: your question on why your "obvious edit" was reverted: we don't deal with content issues here, only with behavior issues, but from a very quick look, the source is 50 years old, and using a list headed "TERRORIST ORGANISATIONS LISTED IN THE FIRST SCHEDULE OF THE UNLAWFUL ACTIVITIES (PREVENTION) ACT, 1967" that includes a certain organization as a source that the organization should be described as a terrorist organization is ]; in their ] NXcrypto provided an edit summary of "Not a reliable source for such a contentious label. See WP:LABEL." Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here.</small> ] (]) 11:28, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*<!-- | |||
;Comment by Athenean | |||
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Lunch for Two reminds me very much of {{userlinks|PMK1}}, who recently had his account deleted and even went around removing signatures because he felt his user name revealed too much personal information. The accounts are virtually identical in terms of interest (essentially single-purpose "Aegean Macedonian" publicity), level of English, and general behavior. It is no coincidence that Lunch for Two appeared soon after PMK1 disappeared. From the very beginning it was clear that Lunch for Two was not a new user by any stretch. ] (]) 01:08, 31 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
==Walter Tau== | |||
===Result concerning Jingiby=== | |||
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> | |||
<!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.--> | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.'' | |||
*This user is a named party of the original ] decision (2007), so he's been involved in ethnic wars for a long time. He has been blocked 15 times, for as long as one year. He's been placed under a lot of bans and revert limits, then he gets repeatedly sanctioned for breaking those. Due to the difficulties he finds in staying on the straight and narrow, I think a further block for one year is probably the best way to go. A further attempt at a regular topic ban is probably futile. ] (]) 19:26, 29 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:*I hope that Future Perfect can provide more details of any recent misbehavior by Jingiby. So far I perceive a recent 3RR violation at ]. Have there been other policy violations over the last 6-12 months? The 15 blocks certainly speak for themselves, but they are not recent. ] (]) 02:56, 31 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
===Request concerning Walter Tau=== | |||
==Cerejota== | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Bobby Cohn}} 20:51, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.'' | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Walter Tau}}<p>{{ds/log|Walter Tau}}</p> | |||
===Request concerning Cerejota=== | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : <span style="border:1px solid;color:#000085"> ] ] </span> 19:27, 30 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Cerejota}} | |||
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | <!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | ||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: | ;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] | ||
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | |||
] | |||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | ; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | ||
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. --> | <!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.--> | ||
# Creation (and subsequent editing and AfC submission) of ]. See it's page history, there's no need to supply the entirety of the diffs here. | |||
#* For context on how this subject falls under the purview, see the context given by the news article as shared on the talk page: Russia using adoption of Ukranian children during the Russo-Ukranian war.<ref>{{cite news |last1=Bruce |first1=Camdyn |title=Ukrainian official rips Russia for 'kidnapping' more than 13,000 children |url=https://thehill.com/policy/international/3775681-ukrainian-official-rips-russia-for-kidnapping-more-than-13000-children/ |work=The Hill |date=14 December 2022}}</ref> Then note how this state program directly discusses adoption support, which was adapted by Putin following the start of the war. A citation given in the draft article.<ref>{{cite news |title=Путин подписал закон, уточняющий условия выплаты материнского капитала |url=https://www.interfax.ru/russia/937864 |work=interfax.ru|trans-title=Putin signs law clarifying conditions for payment of maternity capital}}</ref> The version specifically notes the changes "At the same time, residents of the '''''new regions''''' will receive maternity capital '''''regardless of the basis and timing of their acquisition of Russian citizenship'''''" (emphasis mine). | |||
#:This draft, as it is written, is extremely promotional in areas and could basically be hosted on a state-sponsored website. Given the context, I believe this falls under the topic ban. | |||
{{reflist-talk}} | |||
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : | |||
Cerejotas recent edits are disruptive and exhibit a battleground mentality. As the editor has quickly removed notifications and warnings from his talk page, without changing his editing behaviour, a change in his current approach to editing appears to be unlikely. | |||
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.--> | |||
# Notice given by {{admin|Rosguill}} that they were now subject to an arbitration enforcement sanction | |||
# Blocked by {{admin|Swatjester}} for violating the sanction based on the edits to a project page. | |||
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]): | |||
#Cerejota boldly adds multiple tags to the article. | |||
<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. --> | |||
#After Cerejota's edits have been reverted by another editor, Cerejota again inserts the tags. | |||
*Has been made aware, see the diffs in the above section. | |||
#Cerejota boldly removes large parts of the article. | |||
*Alerted about contentious topics as it applies to this specific draft, on by {{admin|Asilvering}}, given a warning about this specific draft and how it falls under the above purview. | |||
#After a sysop removes the tags added by Cerejota, as an administrative action , and after I have reverted Cerejota's bold changes to the article , Cerejota re-reverts to his preferred version , without having achieved consensus for his change, and contrary to the ] guideline. | |||
#After I reverted again to the status quo ante , and explained to Cerejota why he needs to obtain consensus for his bold changes (see the somewhat unfriendly discussion on my talk page ) and my warning to Cerejota on his talk page, Cerejota again reverts to his preferred version . | |||
#After another editor advised Cerejota not to re-make his changes , Cerejota claims that he does not need to obtain consensus for his changes. In particular, he asserts that restoring the previous version, which leaves open to him to add a reasonable amount of tags, would grant him the right to make bold changes without consensus, instead of adding appropriate tags. | |||
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) : | |||
<!-- Many arbitration remedies require a prior warning before sanctions may be imposed. Link to the warning here. --> | |||
#Notified of the administrative remedies in the 9/11 topic area by {{user|Cs32en}}. | |||
#Warned by {{user|Cs32en}}. | |||
(Cerejota has removed both the notification and the warning from his talk page.) | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | ; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | ||
<!-- Add any further comment here --> | |||
Cerejota has stated some more detailed reasons for his edits on ] some minutes ago. I will take part in the discussion there. However, per ], this discussion should proceed with the status quo ante restored (possibly with tags added to the article, of course.) Despite the fact that there now appears to be an opportunity to discuss the merits of Cerejotas changes (a content issue), his behaviour should not be allowed to stand, and the status quo ante of the article should be restored pending the discussion on the talk page. | |||
It has been repeatedly pointed out to Walter Tau that they are skirting the line of the their topic ban by specifically not mentioning the "elephant in the room", see the diff by Asilvering above. They have also repeatedly chosen to ignore advice that they stop editing in the subject area and have repeatedly claimed to fail to see how their editing is problematic. As such, I have opened this discussion here so as to get an answer for Walter Tau on their editing, see They claim to continuously be unaware of the ban, see also their talk page discussions. | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | ; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | ||
Notified . | |||
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | <!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | ||
===Discussion concerning Cerejota=== | |||
=== |
===Discussion concerning Walter Tau=== | ||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | |||
====Statement by Walter Tau==== | |||
====Comments by others about the request concerning Cerejota==== | |||
I feel, that the decision by ] regarding my draft https://en.wikipedia.org/Draft:Maternity_capital, is "arbitrary and capriciuos" to use US legal terms : ], for the following reasons: | |||
1) nowhere my draft mentions the words "Ukraine" or "Ukrainian". | |||
===Result concerning Cerejota=== | |||
<!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.--> | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.'' | |||
2) this draft ] is a translation of the original Russian wiki- article : https://ru.wikipedia.org/%D0%9C%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BB . I have heard the argument, that different languages in Misplaced Pages use different standards for articles' notability etc. Can someone please provide a web-link to Misplaced Pages rules, that actually confirms, that different standards for different languages is the currently accepted policy. I have been unable to find such statement. | |||
== Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Miradre == | |||
3) In fact, my draft focuses mostly on the policies before 24 February 2022, i.e. before full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine. | |||
<small>''Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found in . According to that motion, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. <p>To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see ]).''</small> | |||
4) Please correct me, if I am wrong, by it seems that ]'s only argument of my ban violation is the following statement in my draft of ]. | |||
; Appealing user : {{userlinks|Miradre}} – ] (]) 20:16, 30 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
"Residents of new regions are paid maternity capital regardless of the time and basis for obtaining Russian citizenship." In my defense: I did not write that statement- it is a Google translation from the Russian wiki, actually a small part of the translated text. And with all honesty, when I was reading the translated text, it did not cross my mind, that someone may interpret so broadly. Also, this sentence-in-question does not really add much to the main subject to the article, and I do not object to its deletion. | |||
5) Considering, that | |||
; Sanction being appealed : One month block. See ], logged at ] | |||
a) I did not write, but only translated the text-in-question; | |||
b) the relevance to the text-in-question to my topic ban is not apparent, particularly in the larger context of the whole article; | |||
c) I do not object deleting the text-in-question from the draft; | |||
may I suggest changing the draft to fix this controversy? | |||
6) If there are other controversial sections/sentences in my translated draft, it may be better if someone re-writes them. Most wiki-readers, can agree with a statement, that this draft ] may not reach an "Article of the Day" status, but it has a value as a stand-alone article as well as a source of references (more-to-be-added). | |||
; Administrator imposing the sanction : {{admin|Atama}} | |||
] (]) 13:45, 25 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
I can see now, why some editors consider the translated addition, that I made, a violation of my ban on editing Russia-Ukraine topic. It was not my intention. I fact, I agree with the deletion of the questionable sentence "Residents of new regions are paid maternity capital regardless of the time and basis for obtaining Russian citizenship.". At the same time, I would like to keep the rest of draft, so that myself and other keep working on getting it published. Do I understand correctly, that the notability of this topic is not being questioned? | |||
; Notification of that administrator : ''The appealing editor is asked to notify the administrator who made the enforcement action of this appeal, and then to replace this text with a ] of that notification. The appeal may not be processed otherwise. If a block is appealed, the editor moving the appeal to this board should make the notification.'' | |||
===Statement by |
====Statement by TylerBurden==== | ||
Walter Tau doesn't seem to think they have done anything wrong on Misplaced Pages, so it's honestly not surprising to see them continuing to push the limit despite the sanctions they have received. At some point you have to wonder if there is a foundational ] or trolling (or a combination of both) issue. Either way, yes they are clearly violating their topic ban by writing about the Russian kidnapping of Ukrainian children from the war, because that is what this whole ″adoption″ thing is. --] (]) 17:22, 25 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
# It is dubious that Atama is uninvolved since he has been involved in a complaint against me started by the person (Mathsci) who also started the AE case: See . | |||
# That Atama states that someone asked him to look at this case raises the question who did this? Someone already involved who knew that I had had a dispute with Atama? | |||
# That there has been a long period without agreement regarding AE indicates that there is uncertainly regarding the situation. So there should preferable be some discussion and consensus by uninvolved editors and not an unilateral decision. Atama stated his intention to block and allowed no time for discussion by uninvolved administrators regarding his justification and the length of the block but blocked and closed the case immediately after stating his justification. | |||
# The block seems very long for such an uncertain case. | |||
# Finally, the justification for the block is wrong. There is no mention of IQ anywhere in ]. Atama states that there is a section regarding ethnocentrism in the article. But that section states that evolutionary psychology does NOT look at ethnic differences but rather about universal human behavior. As such the article and evolutionary psychology is explicitly NOT about either racial or ethnical differences. So to me it seemed that article was safe to edit just because of this section... Note also that no else has argued that the article as a whole are under the ArbCom sanctions. The arguments has been regarding specific statements. No one except Atama has argued that the sanctions apply to everything in the article regardless of contents of the edits. This is a new accusation that I have therefore not replied to. As such it seems to me that Atama should have made this new accusation as an involved party and allowed an uninvolved adminstrator judge its merit after I had had a chance to defend myself against this new accusation. ] (]) 20:47, 30 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:::Thanks for you reply Atama. But regardless of the merit of point 1-4, you made no reply regarding the last point. I think the article makes it clear that it is not about race or ethnicity. Which is why I felt safe editing it so long as I avoided statements about race or ethnicity. Would you therefore consider reverting the block? If you still think that you have a valid accusation, would you consider instead entering the case as an interested party making a new accusation and thus allow me defend myself against the new accusation and allow an uninvolved administrator judge your new accusation? ] (]) 21:14, 30 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
::::I had no reply for the last point because I explained my reasons for the decision I made at the arbitration enforcement request before I closed it and didn't feel the need to repeat myself. I have no interest in the articles covered by the arbitration and don't care to become involved in any of those articles. The only reason why I took on the request was because I'm uninvolved, and could close it. I honestly don't like Arbitration Enforcement because (no offense to you) administrators who choose to get involved there have a tendency to be harassed. I closed it in a way that seemed right after looking over the arbitration case, the topic ban, the article, and the actions you took. I have nothing against you and no friends on the other side of the argument (even today I was criticized for being too hard on Mathsci at the COI noticeboard). -- ''']'''] 23:32, 30 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
===Statement by Atama=== | |||
I was asked to close the AE request {{diff|User_talk:Atama|447424511|447387610|here}}, by ]. I was only asked to make a decision because the request had been open so long, I wasn't asked to do anything in particular. | |||
I commented in a ] thread that Miradre's COI accusation against Mathsci and another editor were unfounded, and later warned Miradre that continuing to make allegations could be considered harassment, but that I had no intention of imposing any sanctions at the time. I don't see how that could in any way make me ]. Miradre withdrew the accusations, and the issue ended peacefully (or I thought so at least). | |||
The block is no longer than what the arbitration discussion suggested as an initial block length. I also don't see that arbitration enforcement requires asking for a consensus from other administrators before making a decision. -- ''']'''] 20:49, 30 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
===Statement by EdJohnston about the appeal by Miradre=== | |||
Atama's closure of this AE request was well within admin discretion. Single admins are allowed to take this kind of action. Only an appeal needs to have a consensus of uninvolved editors. The topic area covered by ] is characterized by extremely tenacious spokesmen for the various points of view. What Miradre called the 'long period without agreement regarding AE' could be due to the fact that admins tend to avoid areas where they expect any decisions they make to be questioned very intensively by the parties. Also the length of the thread showed that great stamina would be required by anyone try to close it. Anyone studying this appeal who is not yet familiar with Miradre's style of editing should take a look at ]. | |||
Atama chose to impose a sanction on the ground that the material that Miradre worked on in ] fell under his topic ban from race and intelligence. Regardless of how one analyzes the topic of evolutionary psychology, Miradre's general approach to collaboration on Misplaced Pages is so poor that a lengthy block for disruptive editing would have been equally well justified. There is doubt in my mind whether Miradre's brand of zealous advocacy has any prospect of improving the encyclopedia. (The 3RR thread I cited above shows what happens when his edits encounter opposition). If Miradre's attitude remains unchanged when his block expires, which seems likely, the community will face the question of whether there is any value in letting him return to editing. ] (]) 01:56, 31 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
===Statement by (involved editor 2)=== | |||
====Statement by (username)==== | |||
===Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Miradre === | |||
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. --> | |||
===Result |
===Result concerning Walter Tau=== | ||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | :''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | ||
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. --> | |||
<!-- Use {{discussion top}} / {{discussion bottom}} to mark this request as closed.--> | |||
*Sidestepping for now the question of whether simply not mentioning anything conflict-related would have been enough to avoid a TBAN violation, the references to "new regions" make this a violation much more straightforwardly. Justice is blind but not stupid. Walter, I think we're going to need to see recognition from you that this was a TBAN violation, if we're going to find a good path forward here. I'd also like to know who you are referring to when you reference other editors working on the draft? ] has made some gnomish edits but you appear to be the only substantive editor. And why are you implying, on Bobby's talk, that y'all have been corresponding by email, when he denies that? <span style="font-family:courier"> -- ]</span><sup class="nowrap">[]]</sup> <small>(])</small> 22:29, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I'll be direct: I think Walter knows what he is doing and has no intention of abiding by his TBAN, , and I don't think we should be wasting further time here when we're almost certainly going to be right back here again within a few weeks. ]] <small><sup>Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat!</sup></small> 05:29, 25 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*Back off a one week block for violating the topic ban, and already violating it again? (The "new regions" material is unquestionably a violation.) It seems that Walter Tau is either unwilling or unable to abide by the restriction, and does not, even after explanation, understand any of the issues here (or even understand something so simple as that different language Wikipedias are independent from one another and each have their own policies and practices). Given that, I don't see anything to be done here except to indef. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 17:45, 25 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
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M.Bitton
M.Bitton is warned against casting aspersions and reminded to abide by WP:CIVIL. Vanamonde93 (talk) 06:35, 19 December 2024 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning M.Bitton
I'll limit this to WP:CIVIL related issues for now, since they're easiest to evaluate with minimal context.
I'm not aware of CTOP sanctions. The block log seems to show four blocks, but they're not that recent and I'm not sure how relevant they are.
Another 15 diffs were (rightfully) removed by an admin for exceeding the diff limit as well as falling outside PIA scope; just mentioning for transparency. They might be relevant on a different forum but admittedly not here. — xDanielx /C\ 16:37, 10 December 2024 (UTC) @Theleekycauldron: I planned to file something after the "garbage" comments (about BobFromBrockley) on Talk:Al-Manar. I reconsidered after being surprised by M.Bitton's diplomatic compromise there. Admittedly M.Bitton's comments in the thread above prompted me to reconsider again, but that wasn't about the fact that I might receive a warning there (irrespective of M.Bitton's participation); it was just about me personally being on the receiving end of some personal attacks. I don't really follow why me being emotionally affected by the conduct would affect the legitimacy of the report. Most of the incivility was directed at other users, and letting this conduct continue wouldn't seem fair to them. — xDanielx /C\ 16:41, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
Discussion concerning M.BittonStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by M.BittonNot content with edit warring, assuming bad faith and casting aspersions (see #xDanielx), they now decided to go even lower and file a retaliatory report. M.Bitton (talk) 09:56, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by (username)Result concerning M.Bitton
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Ethiopian Epic
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Ethiopian Epic
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Tinynanorobots (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 11:23, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Ethiopian Epic (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Yasuke
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- November 14th created during the Yasuke case and went active when it ended. First 11 edits were to Government of Japan. In one case three edits were used to write one sentence.
- November 12 Manually reverted the lead back to how it was in September.
- November 16 Falsely Claimed cited material was OR. (G
- November 24 Falsely Claimed cited material was unsourced
- November 24 It took an ANI report to get him to use the article talk page. His defense was accusations and denial.
- November 23 He reverted to a version that went against consensus established on the talk page and contained a falsely sourced quote.
- November 25 Engages in sealioning
- November 29 Removes a well sourced line from Yasuke as well as reverted an edit that was the result of BRD. He has now started disputes with me on all three Yasuke related articles.
- November 30 starts disputing a new section of
- December 2 Brought again to ANI, he claims that I didn't get consensus for changes, even though I had discussed them on talk prior to making them.
- December 4 He keeps mentioning ONUS, and asking me to discuss it, in response to me discussing.
- December 9 Used a non-controversial revert to hide his edit warring.
- December 11 did the same thing on List of foreign-born samurai in Japan.
- December 11 He also repeatedly complains that he doesn't like the definition because it is vague and claims that his preferred version is "status quo"
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
- [
- Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on December 1 (see the system log linked to above).
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
I am not sure if this is actually a AE matter, but was told to go here by multiple admins. The biggest issue is the Editing against consensus on accompanied by bludgeoning. However, there are signs of bad faith editing on all three pages where I have interacted with EE. It could also be a CIR issue or it could be some sort of harassment. I don't know. I just know that EE first avoided providing clear reasons for reverting edits and has been trying to engage in Status Quo Stonewalling. He keeps citing Onus or Burden and asks me not to make a change until the discussion is over. Often, this doesn't make sense in context, because the change was in place. He has made false claims about sources and what they say. His editing on Yasuke is not so much a problem as the discussion which comes across as gaslighting.
- @User:Red-tailed hawk, I am not an expert on proxies or socks. All the IPs have only posted on the one article and have advocated an odd definition for samurai, that doesn't apply to the article. All except the first one have just reverted. It is possible that this is just laziness, or lack of confidence in writing skills etc. After all, the false citation was added by another user and was just kept. I found the latest one the most suspect, in part because of it first reverting to the incorrect definition, before restoring most of the text and second because of falsely citing policy. I am not sure if they are proxies, but I hoped that someone here would have the expertise to know. I don't think the proxy evidence is the most important. EE is either acting in bad faith or has CIR problems. The later is possible, because he thanked City of Silver during ANI, although City of Silver has been the harshest critic of EE's behaviour towards me.
- I think there should be some important context to the quote:
"those who serve in close attendance to the nobility"
. The quote can be found in several books, on Samurai it is sourced to an article published in Black Belt Magazine in the 80s by William Scott Wilson, where he describes the origin of the word samurai. He is describing the early phases of its meaning in that quote, before it became to have martial connotations. It also refers to the time before 900. The earliest foreign samurai on the list was in the late 1500s. It also doesn't apply to most of the persons on the list. Finally, it is not mentioned in Vaporis's book, which EE keeps adding as the source. He hasn't even made the effort to copy the citation from Samurai.
Not only did I have a dispute with Symphony Regalia about samurai being "retainers to lords", but also on Yasuke about "As a samurai" and on List of Foreign-born Samurai in Japan EE made the same reverts as SR. EE had with his first edit in all three articles continued a dispute that I had already had with SR.
- @User:Ethiopian Epic I actually don't have a problem with you discussing things. Your talk page posts aren't really discussion though. Your main argument on all three pages has been a shifting of the burden of proof. You don't really discuss content and continually ask me not to make changes without discussing first, and then make changes yourself. I understand that your position is that your preferred version is the status quo. However, my edits regarding the definition on List of Foreign-born samurai in Japan , were discussed and consensus was clearly gotten. Similarly, my edits on Yasuke were discussed, and even though I didn't use the exact same version as Gitz said, Gitz had suggested using warrior instead of bushi, so I used samurai, because I thought it would be less controversial.
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning Ethiopian Epic
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Ethiopian Epic
This is clear retaliatory filing because I recently didn't agree with Tinynanorobot's edits against RFC consensus, and because I made talk page sections on some recent edits.
@Eronymous That's not true and you are a very obvious alt account with only 26 edits. No one gave you a notification of this discussion and it's not on the Yasuke talk page. This suggests you are the sock puppet of someone here. Your post is also misleading and incorrect it wasn't an insertion. The line you are talking about in Samurai has been there for over 10 years and is normal. I know because I've read it before. Here is a version from 2017 that still has it. I don't understand why you are misrepresenting edits and using an alt account.
@Red-tailed hawk I think he is just fishing. That's why he removed his IP claims. Even his other diffs are just mislabeled regular behavior. It's amusing because Eronymous is the likely alt of Tinynanorobots or someone posting here. I think the way Tinynanorobots edits against clear consensus, skips discussion, and then files frivolous ANI/AE reports with misleading narrative like above is disruptive. Discussion is an easy solution and benefits everyone. I hope he will respect RFC consensus.
Statement by Relm
I am largely unfamiliar with the account in question, but I do frequently check Yasuke. I believe that EthiopianEpic has displayed a clear slant and battleground mindset in their editing in regards to the topic of Yasuke, but that their conduct on the Yasuke page itself so far has generally been in the ballpark of good faith edits. The revert on December 9th was justified, and their topic on November 29th is well within bounds (though I acknowledge that the background of their prior disputes on other pages with Tinynanorobots shows it may be edit warring) given that the two things being reverted was a change that seemed to skirt the prior RFC with agreement being given in a very non-direct way, and the other portion being an addition which had not been discussed on the talk page prior to its implementation (though previous discussions ered on the side of not including it). I am not accusing Tinynanorobots of any misconduct in any part of that either.
What I will note is that in addition to the sockpuppet IP allegations made by Tinynanorobots, I wanted to lodge that the posting style of EthiopianEpic, as well as their knowledge of much of the previous discussions on the page deep in the archive, led me to suspect that they were an alt of User:Symphony_Regalia. I never found anything conclusive. Relm (talk) 14:48, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Simonm223
These two editors have been tangling at WP:AN/I repeatedly. Last time they came there I said that this would likely continue until a third party intervened. And then the thread got archived with no action (see AN/I thread here) so I'm not surprised that the two of them are still tangling. There is evidence that both editors have engaged in a slow-motion edit war. Both have claimed the other is editing against consensus. Here I will say that it appears TinyNanoRobots is more correct than Ethiopian Epic. Furthermore, while neither editors' comportment has been stellar, as other editors have pointed out, it appears more that EE is following TNR about and giving them a hard time than the alternate. . In the linked AN/I case (above) you'll note EE attempted a boomerang on TNR and was not well-received for the effort.
Frankly my view is that both editors are not editing to the best standards of Misplaced Pages but there is definitely a more disruptive member of this duo and that is Ethiopian Epic. I think it would probably cut down on the noise considerably if they were encouraged to find somewhere to edit which was not a CTOP subject and if they were encouraged to leave TNR alone. Simonm223 (talk) 18:05, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Eronymous
Similar to Relm I check on the Yasuke page every so often, and it seems very likely given the evidence that User:Ethiopian Epic is an alt of User:Symphony_Regalia created to evade his recent ArbCom sanctions, having started editing the day prior to the Yasuke case closure. Of note to this is the last edit of Symphony_Regalia on Samurai was him attempting to insert the line "who served as retainers to lords (including daimyo)" - curiously enough, Ethiopian Epic's first edit on Samurai (and first large edit, having just prior made 11 minor ones in a short timeframe to reach autoconfirmed status) is him attempting to insert the same controversial line that was reverted before.
Symphony_Regalia has a history of utilising socks to edit Yasuke/Samurai related topics and is indefinitely blocked from the .jp wiki for extensive sockpuppetry (plus multiple suspected IPs) for this.
Prior to being sanctioned Symphony Regalia frequently got into exactly the same arguments concerning wording/source material with User:Tinynanorobots that Ethiopian Epic is now. One could assume based on their relationship that he is aggrieved that Tinynanorobots was not sanctioned by ArbCom during the case and is now continuously feuding with him to change that through edit warring and multiple administrator incidents/arbitration requests in the past few weeks. Eronymous (talk) 22:31, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Nil Einne
I was ?one of the editors who suggested Tinynanorobots consider ARE in the future. I did this mostly because after three threads on ANI with no result, I felt a change of venue might be more productive especially since the more structured nature of ARE, as well as a likely greater concern over low level of misconduct meant that some outcome was more likely. (For clarity, when I suggested this I did feel nothing would happen from the third ANI thread but in any case my advice being taken onboard would likely mean the third thread had no result.) I did try to make clear that I wasn't saying there was definitely a problem requiring sanction and also it was possible Tinynanorobots might themselves end up sanctioned. Since a topic ban on both is being considered, I might have been right in a way. If a topic ban results, I'd like to suggest admins considered some guidance beyond broadly constructed on how any topic ban would apply. While the entirety of the Yasuke article and the list of foreign born samurai stuff seem clear enough, one concern I've had at ANI is how to handle the editing at Samurai and its talk page. A lot of the recent stuff involving these editors seems to relate to the definition of samurai. AFAIK, this is generally been a big part of the dispute of Yasuke (he can/can't be a samurai because it means A which was/wasn't true about him). Nil Einne (talk) 12:42, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
Result concerning Ethiopian Epic
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- I've never been very impressed with retaliatory filings, and the one below is no exception. I will also note that I'm never too impressed with "must be a sock" type accusations—either file at SPI or don't. In this case, though, I think Yasuke would be better off if neither of these two were participating there. Seraphimblade 19:33, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
- Red-tailed hawk, what are your thoughts after the responses to you? Seraphimblade 16:18, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- I think that it would be declined if it were an WP:SPI report and the editor should be mindful not to throw sock accusations around willy-nilly going forward. But I typically don't see any sort of sanction imposed when someone makes a bad SPI report, particularly if they're newer or aren't quite clueful yet. So I don't see much to do on that front other than tell them that we need more specific evidence of socking when reports are made than merely shared interest, particularly when the IPs are scattered across the world. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 02:24, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- I'm still inclined to topic ban both these editors from Yasuke, but would be interested in hearing more thoughts on that if anyone has them. Seraphimblade 07:10, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- I think that it would be declined if it were an WP:SPI report and the editor should be mindful not to throw sock accusations around willy-nilly going forward. But I typically don't see any sort of sanction imposed when someone makes a bad SPI report, particularly if they're newer or aren't quite clueful yet. So I don't see much to do on that front other than tell them that we need more specific evidence of socking when reports are made than merely shared interest, particularly when the IPs are scattered across the world. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 02:24, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- Red-tailed hawk, what are your thoughts after the responses to you? Seraphimblade 16:18, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- I also generally don't like "might-be-a-sock"-style accusations; when we are accusing someone of sockpuppetry by logged out editing we typically need evidence to substantiate it rather than just floating the possibility in a flimsy way. Filer has provided several diffs above as possible socks, but each of those IPs geolocates to a different country (Germany, Norway, and Argentina respectively) and I don't see evidence that any of those IPs are proxies.@Tinynanorobots: Can you explain what led you to note the IP edits? Is it merely shared interest and viewpoint, or is there something more?— Red-tailed hawk (nest) 02:01, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
- Looking at this .... mess... first, I'm not sure what actually was against the ArbCom decision - I don't see a 1RR violation being alleged, and the rest really appears to me to be "throw stuff at the wall and see if it sticks". But, like Seraphimblade, I'm not impressed with either of these editors actual conduct here or in general. I could be brought around to supporting a topic ban for both of these editors in the interests of clearing up the whole topic area. Ealdgyth (talk) 14:33, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Tinynanorobots: you are well above the 500 word limit. Please request an extension before adding anything more. Barkeep49 (talk) 16:18, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
Tinynanorobots
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Tinynanorobots
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- EEpic (talk) 19:14, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Tinynanorobots (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Yasuke
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 09:21, 14 November 2024. Tinynanorobots removes
As a samurai
from the lead text and replaces it withsignifying bushi status
against RFC consensus (There exists a consensus to refer to Yasuke as a samurai without qualification
). - 17:12, 15 November 2024. Tinynanorobots removes
who served as a samurai
from the lead text and addswho became a bushi or samurai
against RFC consensus (There exists a consensus against presenting Yasuke's samurai status as the object of debate
). - 12:43, 20 November 2024. On List of Foreign-born Samurai, Tinynanorobots removes the longstanding definition and adds
This list includes persons who ... may not have been considered a samurai
against RFC consensus (There exists a consensus against presenting Yasuke's samurai status as the object of debate
). - 07:48, 23 November 2024. Tinynanorobots reverts to remove
As a samurai
in the Yasuke article after Gitz6666 opposes at , again ignoring WP:ONUS. - 03:13, 4 December 2024. I restore and start a talk page discussion so that consensus can be formed.
- 14:10, 6 December 2024 . Tinynanorobots, when consensus fails to form for his position, becomes uncivil and engages in a sarcastic personal attack
What you are saying doesn't make sense. Perhaps there is a language issue here. Maybe your native language handles the future differently than English?
- 14:22, 11 December 2024. Tinynanorobots removes "As a samurai" again, ignoring WP:ONUS and BRD even though no consensus has formed for his position, and no consensus has formed to change existing consensus.
- 08:37, 6 December 2024. Tinynanorobots explains their reasons,
I don't know if samurai is the right term
which is against consensus. - 07:27, 28 November 2024. POV-pushing - With no edit summary Tinynanorobots tag bombs by adding
Slavery in Japan
.
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
- Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on 23:06, 13 November 2024.
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
Tinynanorobots frequently edits against consensus, restores his edits when others revert, doesn't wait for consensus, and engages in feuding behavior. He seems to think WP:BRD or WP:ONUS don't apply to him which is disruptive, and I don't know why.
Unaccounted removals of sources 23:44, 14 September 2024 - Warning from other editor about repeated removal of content when multiple users are objecting.
AGF 12:21, 15 September 2024 - Warning from yet another editor about not assuming good faith and making personal attacks
It seems to be chronic which suggests behavior problems. Tinynanorobots also frequently fails to assume good faith in others. I don't know why as I don't have any issues with him.
Their preferred edit for Yasuke against the RFC consensus is now still in the lead section.
@Relm Sorry for the confusion. I think we talking about different edits, so I'll adjust that part. I am referring to Tinynanorobot's repeated removal of As a samurai
against RFC consensus, which states There exists a consensus to refer to Yasuke as a samurai without qualification
.
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning Tinynanorobots
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Tinynanorobots
The accusations made by EE are so misleading as to be evidence against him. Most of what he is discussing is in reference to a successful BRD. I actually discussed the bold edit first on the talk, but didn't get much of a response. I decided a bold edit would get more feedback. The edits were reverted and then discussed. Gitz's main problem was OR, not a RfC violation. This was because he didn't read the cited source. Anyway, since Atkin says "signifying bushi status", I have no objection to restoring this text.
I never used any sarcasm, I know that some languages handle how they talk about time differently. It seems reasonable that a translation error could be the reason for EE asking me not to change the article, althoug my edit had already been restored by someone else and at the same time asking me to discuss that I had already discussed and was already discussing. I am disappointed that EE didn't point out that he felt attacked, so that I could apologize.
This was written in response to another user, and the whole thought is I don't know if samurai is the right term. It is the term a fair amount of sources use, and the one that the RfC says should be used. It is also consistent with common usage in reference to other historical figures.
In fact earlier in that post I said this: I am not qualified to say whither or not Yasuke having a house meant that he was a samurai
This is blatantly taking a quote out of context in order to prejudice the Admins against me.
- @User:Ealdgyth I filed here, because the last time I filed at ANI it was suggested that I bring things here if things continue by an Admin. I try to follow advice, although I keep getting conflicting signals from Admins. I am most concerned that you find my work on Samurai and List of Foreign-born Samurai in Japan not adding anything helpful. My suggestion to rewrite the way samurai was defined on the List in order to reduce OR and bring it in line with WP:LSC was meant with unanimous approval by those who responded. Samurai is a high importance article that has tags on it from years back, is unorganized and contains outdated information. I am not the best writer, but I have gotten some books, and am pretty much the only one working on it.
Statement by Relm
I am the editor alluded to and quoted as 'protesting' Tinynanorobots edit. When I originally made that topic, I was fixing a different edit which left the first sentence as a grammatically incomplete sentence. When I looked at it in the editing view, one of the quotes in the citation beforehand was quoting Atkins Vera, and I mistook this for the opening quote having been changed. When I closed the editing menu I saw 'signifying samurai status' in the second paragraph and confused the two for each other as I had not noticed the addition of the latter phrase a little under a month ago. I realized my mistake almost immediately after I posted the new topic, and made this (1) edit to clarify my mistake while also attempting to instead direct the topic towards making sure that the edit recieved sufficient assent from Gitz (it did) and to talk about improvements that could be made to the opening sentence. I further clarified and made clear that I was not accusing Tinynanorobots of having done anything wrong in a later response (2).
Though many of their earlier edits on the page may show some issues, as they grew more familiar with the past discussions I believe that Tinynanorobots has made valuable contributions to the page in good faith. Relm (talk) 03:21, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Barkeep49
- @Ealdgyth I think this misinterprets the ArbCom decision. So Yakuse is a contentious topic and it has a 1RR restriction, in the same way as say PIA. As in PIA administrators can sanction behavior that violates the contentious topics procedures besides 1RR. Beyond that, editing against the RFC is a finding of fact from the case. Barkeep49 (talk) 16:25, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by (username)
Result concerning Tinynanorobots
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- As above, I'm failing to see what exactly is against the ArbCom case rulings - I don't see a 1RR violation. But also as above, I'm coming to the view that neither of these editors are adding anything helpful to the topic area and am leaning towards a topic ban for both. Ealdgyth (talk) 14:35, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
Selfstudier
No evidence of misconduct was presented. Filer Allthemilescombined1 is informally warned against frivolous filings. -- Tamzin (they|xe|🤷) 02:36, 19 December 2024 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
}
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Selfstudier
Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 5
On I/P topics, my edits on numerous occasions have been reverted almost immediately, by Selfstudier and their fellow editors who seem to be always hanging around I/P, and "owning" the topic area. They are creating a hostile editing environment and are violating NPOV. Concerns for possible WP:CIVIL and WP:TENDENTIOUS violations:
Concerns for possible WP:GAME and WP:NOT ADVOCACY violations:
Concerns for possible WP:ASPERSIONS violations:
Concerns for possible WP:TAG TEAM violations:
Selected examples of my edits which were reverted within hours or minutes (this list is far from comprehensive):
In summary, I have experienced a pattern of consistent, and what appears to be organized, intimidation from a small group of editors.
Discussion concerning SelfstudierStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by SelfstudierStatement by Sean.hoylandI see I've been mentioned but not pinged. That's nice. I encourage anyone to look at the diffs and the context. Why are there editors in the topic area apparently ignoring WP:NOTFORUM and WP:NOTADVOCACY? It's a mystery. It is, and has always been, one of the root causes of instability in the topic area and wastes so much time. Assigning a cost to advocacy might reduce it. Either way, it needs to be actively suppressed by enforcement of the WP:NOT policy. It's a rule, not an aspiration. Sean.hoyland (talk) 15:23, 13 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by Butterscotch BelugaI didn't say it was "irrelevant to pro-Palestine protests" as a whole. The edit I reverted was specifically at 2024 pro-Palestinian protests on university campuses, so as I said, the "Incident did not occur at a university campus so is outside the scope of this article". We have other articles like Israel–Hamas war protests & more specifically Israel–Hamas war protests in the United States that are more in scope of your proposed edit. - Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 20:52, 13 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by HuldraI wish the filer would have wiki-linked names, then you would easily have seen that Bernard-Henri Lévy "is not an expert on Zionism or colonialism”, or that Adam Kirsch “does not appear to be an expert in Zionism or Settler colonial studies but is apparently well known for a pro Israel viewpoint", Huldra (talk) 22:11, 13 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by RolandRI too have been mentioned above, and complained about, but not been notified. If this is not a breach of Misplaced Pages regulations, then it ought to be. As for the substance, I see that I am accused of describing Norman H. Finkelstein as a "non-notable children’s writer". Norman H. Finkelstein was indeed a children's writer, as described in most reports and obituaries. At the time of the original edit and my revert, he was not considered sufficiently notable to merit a Misplaced Pages article; it was only a week later that the OP created an article, of which they have effectively been the only editor. So I stand by my characterisation, which is an accurate and objective description of the author. Further, I was concerned that a casual reader might be led to confuse this writer with the highly significant writer Norman Finkelstein; in fact, I made my edit after AlsoWukai had made this mistake and linked the cited author to the genuinely notable person. This whole report, and the sneaky complaints about me and other editors, is entirely worthless and should be thrown out. RolandR (talk) 22:29, 13 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by Zero0000This edit by OP is illustrative. It is just a presentation of personal belief with weak or irrelevant sources. I don't see evidence of an ability to contribute usefully. Zero 00:31, 14 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by SameboatIt is clear that the filer has failed to understand my message, which was a warning about repeated violations of the NotForum policy. Instead, they have misinterpreted my actions, as well as those of others, as part of a coordinated "tag team." I raised my concerns on User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish after the filer's edit on the UNRWA article regarding its controversy, which failed to properly attribute the information to its source—the Israeli government. This filing is a complete waste of time, and serious sanctions should be imposed on the filer if similar issues occur again in the future. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk · contri.) 02:17, 14 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by AlsoWukaiContrary to the filer's complaint, I never made an edit "removing the disappearance of the ANC's $31 million debt when South Africa accused Israel of genocide." I can only conclude that the filer misread the edit history. AlsoWukai (talk) 20:55, 14 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by ValereeeeThe diff allthemiles links to above is me responding to their post (in which they complained about a mildly sarcastic remark by another editor) where they said, "If respectful discussion is not possible, administrative involvement will be needed." I've been trying to keep up at that article talk, so I responded giving them my take on it. I tried to keep engaging, trying to help them understand the challenges for less experienced editors trying to work in the topic, offering advice on how they could get up to speed at that particular article, even offering to continue the discussion at their talk or mine. Valereee (talk) 14:29, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
Result concerning Selfstudier
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Rasteem
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Rasteem
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- NXcrypto (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 03:06, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Rasteem (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- WP:ARBIPA
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 23:21 12 December 2024 - removed wikilink of an Indian railway station thus violating his topic ban from India and Pakistan.
This violation comes after he was already warned for his first violation of the topic ban.
Upon a closer look into his recent contribution, I found that he is simply WP:GAMING the system by creating articles like Arjan Lake which is overall only 5,400 bytes but he made nearly 50 edits here. This is clearly being done by Rasteem for passing the 500 edits mark to get his topic ban overturned.
I recommend increasing the topic ban to indefinite duration. Nxcrypto Message 03:06, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- "topic banned from the subject of India and Pakistan, broadly construed, until both six months have elapsed and they have made 500 edits after being notified of this sanction."
- If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
- I agree that there are genuine CIR issues with Rasteem, for example while this ARE report is in progress they created Javan Lake, which has promotional statements like: "The lake's stunning caluts, majestic desert topographies, and serene lakes produce a shifting destination. Its unique charm attracts a wide range of guests, from adventure contenders to nature suckers and beyond". Nxcrypto Message 03:26, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Rasteem
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Rasteem
This approach seems to be a coordinated attack to abandon me from Misplaced Pages indefinitely. Indeed, after my ban for 6 months. I was banned on 6 December, and in just 7 days, this report is literally an attempt to make me leave Misplaced Pages.
1. I rolled back my own edit; it was last time made unintentionally. I was about to revert it, but my internet connection was lost, so when I logged in again, I regressed it.
The internet is constantly slow and sometimes goes down. I live in a hilly location and I had formerly mentioned it.
My edits on Arjan Lake isn't any WP:GAMING factual number of edits I made; it is 45, not 50. Indeed, I made similar edits before in September and December months on the same articles within a single day or 2-3 days.
2. List of villages in Khoda Afarin on this article, I've added 5680 bytes & made 43 edits.
3. List of villages in Tabriz on this article I've added 4000 bytes & made 49 edits.
Statement by (username)
Result concerning Rasteem
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- While I don't see a change in editing pattern that indicates gaming, the edits to Arjan Lake indicate issues with competence, as the article is weirdly promotional and contains phrases such as "beast species", "emotional 263 proved species". —Femke 🐦 (talk) 20:57, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
- Adding to Femke's point,
magnific 70- cadence-high waterfalls in this area
is not prose that inspires confidence in the editor's competence to edit the English Misplaced Pages. So, we have violations of a topic ban and questions about the editor's linguistic competence and performance. Perhaps an indefinite block appealable in six months with a recommendation to build English competency by editing the Simple English Misplaced Pages, and to build general Misplaced Pages skills by editing in the version of Misplaced Pages in the language they speak best during that minimum six month period. As for Arjan Lake, although the prose is poor, the references in the article make it clear to me that the topic is notable, so the editor deserves some credit for starting this article that did not exist for two decades plus. Cullen328 (talk) 08:57, 14 December 2024 (UTC) - Brief comment to avoid the archive bot. Seraphimblade 17:46, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
שלומית ליר
שלומית ליר is reminded to double-check edits before publishing, and to try to reply more promptly when asked about potential mistakes. —Femke 🐦 (talk) 20:21, 18 December 2024 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning שלומית ליר
N/A
The user wrote that NATO had supported accusations against Hamas citing a chapter titled Hamas and Human Rights in a book titled Hamas Rule in Gaza: Human Rights under Constraint. They cited the entire chapter, pages 56–126. The source itself is a work of scholarship, and nobody would challenge it as a reliable source. Luckily, the full text of the book is available via the Misplaced Pages Library, and anybody with access to that can verify for themselves that the word "shield" appears nowhere in the book. Not human shield, or even NATO (nato appears in searches with the results being "explanatory, twice and coordinator once, or Atlantic, or N.A.T.O. It is simply made up that this source supports that material. The user later, after being challenged but declining to answer what in the source supports it (see here), added another source that supposedly supports the material, this paper by NATO StratCom COE, however they themselves say they are not part of the NATO Command Structure, nor subordinate to any other NATO entity. As such the Centre does not therefore speak for NATO, though that misunderstanding is certainly forgivable. However, completely making up that a source supports something, with a citation to 70 pages of a book, is less so. That is to me a purposeful attempt at obfuscating that the source offered does not support the material added, and the lack of any attempt of explaining such an edit on the talk page led me to file a report here. nableezy - 23:48, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
Discussion concerning שלומית לירStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by שלומית לירThe article "Use of human shields by Hamas" is intended to address a well-documented phenomenon: Hamas’s deliberate use of civilian infrastructure — homes, hospitals, and mosques — as shields for its military operations. This includes hiding weapons, constructing military tunnels beneath civilian populations, and knowingly placing innocent lives in harm’s way. Yet, I found the article falls far short of adequately describing this phenomenon. It presents vague and generalized accusations while failing to reference the numerous credible organizations that have extensively documented these practices. During my review, I discovered that essential sources were available in the article's edit history (https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Use_of_human_shields_by_Hamas&oldid=1262868174). I retrieved and restored these sources without reverting prior edits, including a source referenced by user Nableezy. When it was brought to my attention that an error had occurred, I acknowledged it, thanked the user, and corrected it by incorporating two reliable references. I had hoped this would resolve the issue, but apparently, it did not. Now, I find myself the subject of an arbitration enforcement hearing that feels not only unwarranted but intended to intimidate me from contributing further to this article. I would also like to point out that the responses to my edits raise serious concerns. For instance, an image depicting missiles hidden in a family home — an image used in other Wikipedias to illustrate this topic — was removed. This raises the question: why obscure such critical evidence? Similarly, a scholarly source with credible information that emphasizes the severity of this issue was reverted without clear justification. This article should serve as a thorough account of Hamas's war crimes, which have resulted in the deaths of innocent civilians. Instead, it seems that some editors are working to dilute its substance, resisting efforts to include vital context and documentation at the start of the article. This undermines the article’s purpose and risks distorting the public’s understanding of an issue of profound international importance.שלומית ליר (talk) 19:52, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Supreme DeliciousnessValereee created the article Politics of food in the Arab–Israeli conflict. She is therefor involved in the topic area and shouldn't be editing in the uninvolved admin section.--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 08:41, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by (username)Result concerning שלומית ליר
|
KronosAlight
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning KronosAlight
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Butterscotch Beluga (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 03:16, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- KronosAlight (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4#ARBPIA General Sanctions
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- Adds "depiste being an ex-Muslim" to dismiss accusations of Islamophobia MOS:EDITORIAL.
- Adds MOS:SCAREQUOTES around ‘promoted Islamophobia’ & ‘Islamophobia’ while removing the supporting context.
- Changed "interpreted that statement as a threat and incitement to violence" to "claimed was a threat and incitement to violence, though no threats or violence in fact occurred" MOS:CLAIM & MOS:EDITORIAL
- Changes "Israeli settlers" to "Israeli soldiers" despite the source only explicitly stating them "throwing stones on settlers."
- Unnecessarily specific additions that may constitute WP:POVPUSH such as adding "against civilians" & changing "prevent the assassinations of many Israelis" to "prevent the assassinations of many Israeli civilians and soldiers"
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- 24 June 2024 Warned to abide by the one-revert rule when making edits within the scope of the Arab-Israeli conflict topic area.
- 22 October 2024 Blocked from editing for 1 week for violating consensus required on the page Zionism
- If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
- Previously given a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction or warned for conduct in the area of conflict on 22 October 2024 by ScottishFinnishRadish (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA).
- Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on 24 January 2024.
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
All edits were made at Mosab Hassan Yousef. After I partially reverted their edits with an explanation, I brought the issue to their attention on the talk page, asking for their rationale. They replied that they were "correcting factual errors introduced by previous antisemitic editors" & asked if I "perhaps have a deeper bias that’s influencing decisions in this respect?"
They then undid my partial revert
- Ealdgyth - While I can't find any comments where they were explicitly "warned for casting aspersions", they were asked back in June to WP:AGF in the topic area.
- Also, apologies for my "diffs of edits that violate this sanction" section, this is the first time I've filed a request here & I thought it'd be best to explain the preamble to my revert, but I understand now that I misunderstood the purpose of that section & will remember such for the future. - Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 15:37, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Vanamonde93 I was able to find a copy of the opinion article being cited 'They Need to Be Liberated From Their God'. Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 20:14, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning KronosAlight
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by KronosAlight
This is a complete waste of the Arbitration Committee’s time.
1. That Yousef was born and raised a Muslim is important and neutral context for readers to be aware of when the article refers to claims of ‘Islamophobia’.
2. The scarequotes indicate that the claim comes from the sources provided, rather than being an objective ‘fact’ determined by a few Misplaced Pages Editors with an axe to grind.
3. This was already addressed on the Talk page and I updated the sentence to say settlers/soldiers with a further label that it needed further clarification because the source does not in fact unambiguously say what Butterscotch Beluga claims.
A few lines above what Butterscotch Beluga quotes is the following lines: “AMANPOUR: How did you take part in that? Were you one of the small children who threw rocks at Israeli soldiers?
YOUSEF: The model for every Palestinian child is a mujahid (ph) or a fidahi (ph) or a fighter. So, of course, I wanted to be one at that point of my life. It wasn't -- it's not my only dream. It's every child's dream in that territory.”
The updated Wiki page noted both settlers/soldiers and included a note that this requires further clarification, perhaps based on other sources, because it isn’t clear (contra Butterscotch Beluga) whether he is referring to soldiers or settlers.
4. It is not controversial to accurately describe Hamas as a terrorist organisation. It is simply a fact. To suggest otherwise is POV-pushing.
5. This is not POVPUSH; ‘assassinations’ against civilians during peacetime are usually called ‘murders’.
I in fact didn’t even remove the word ‘assassinations’, I merely broadened the description from ‘Israelis’ to ‘Israeli civilians and soldiers’ (as Butterscotch accepted) to indicate the breadth of the individuals in question included both civilians and combatants. This is not POVPUSH, it is simply additional information and context verified in the source itself.
All in all, a vexatious claim and a waste of the Arbitration Committee’s time.
Statement by Sean.hoyland
Regarding "I was correcting factual errors introduced by previous antisemitic editors", it would be helpful if KronosAlight would explicitly identify the antisemitic editors and the edits they corrected so that they can be blocked for being antisemitic editors. Sean.hoyland (talk) 08:17, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
The editor has been here since 2012. It is reasonable to assume that they know the rules regarding aspersions. It is reasonable to assume they are intentionally violating them, presumably because they genuinely believe they are dealing with antisemitic editors. So, this report is somehow simultaneously a vexatious complete waste of time and the result of the someone interfering with their valiant efforts to correct errors made by antisemitic editors. Why do they have this belief? This is probably a clue, a comment they had the good sense to revert. For me, this is an example of someone attempting to use propaganda that resembles antisemitic conspiracy theories about media control to undermine Misplaced Pages's processes and then changing their mind. But the very fact that they thought of it is disturbing. Their revert suggests that they are probably aware that there are things you can say about an editor and things you cannot say about an editor. From my perspective, what we have here is part of an emerging pattern in the topic area, a growing number of attacks on Misplaced Pages and editors with accusations of antisemitism, cabals etc. stemming in part from external partisan sources/influence operations. Sean.hoyland (talk) 17:35, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Zero0000
Aspersions:
- I made that comment to highlight the obvious problem of antisemitism among Misplaced Pages editors.
- It seems less like a merger and more like a deliberate burying of the original information.
- Given some of the users involved there, I don’t have very high hopes given the Pirate Wires allegations.
- Is there no limits you will not cross in order to seek to justify your Jew-hatred?
Zero 10:36, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Vice regent
KronosAlight, you changed on 14 Dec 2024: "An open letter signed by Christian and Muslim religious leaders interpreted that statement as a threat and incitement to violence
" to "An open letter signed by Christian and Muslim religious leaders claimed was a threat and incitement to violence, though no threats or violence in fact occurred
".
Can you show where either of the sources state "though no threats or violence in fact occurred"? VR (Please ping on reply) 18:07, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Smallangryplanet
Wanted to add some pertinent evidence:
Talk:Zionism:
- "Interesting question, you should look it up and find an answer"
- I’ll leave it to others to consider what that says about Misplaced Pages’s community.
- If your claim is that the sinking of SS Patria is morally comparable then I simply don’t think you should be allowed to contribute to any of these articles
- You think WW2 and the Holocaust are too low-level to include in the lede?
Talk:Allegations of genocide in the 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon:
Talk:Relations between Nazi Germany and the Arab world:
Talk:2024 Lebanon electronic device attacks:
Talk:Anti-Zionism:
- There's no difference between opposing the Jewish people's right to self-determination and calling for the destruction of the State of Israel. It's just two different sets of words to describe the same thing.
- "The route to this implication is via the identification of anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism. Anti-Semites want to rid the world of Jews: Israel is a Jewish State: Anti-Zionists oppose Israel as a Jewish state, ergo anti-Zionists are anti-Semitic, and as such, seek the destruction of Israel." All of this is correct.
Talk:Gaza genocide:
- Even if we assume that Hamas' own numbers are broadly correct (which we shouldn't, because it don't distinguish between civilian and combatant casualties, and have been repeatedly proven be largely just invented), that doesn’t seem to even come close to genocide. Why are we even indulging this ludicrous nonsense?
- When this war ends and the vast, vast, vast majority of Palestinians in both Gaza and the West Bank are still alive and negotiating begin about the future of their region and political administration etc., will this article be deleted, or will this remain as yet another blood libel against the Jewish people?
Talk:Nuseirat rescue and massacre:
Talk:Al-Sardi school attack:
Talk:Eden Golan:
Other sanctions:
- March 2024: indefinitely topic banned from the subject of flood myths for sealioning, WP:ASPERSIONS, etc
- June 2024: warned to abide by 1RR
- October 2024: blocked for a week
Statement by (username)
Result concerning KronosAlight
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- Much of the "diffs of edits that violate this sanction" fail to explain "how these edits violate" the sanction - to me, much of these diffs look like a content dispute. However, the "additional comments" section DOES have a diff that is concerning and violates the CT by casting an aspersion that is not backed up by a diff - the "antisemitic editors" diff. Has KA been previously warned for casting aspersions? If they have, I'm inclined to issue a topic ban, but many other editors get a warning for this if they lack a previous warning. The diffs brought up by Zero (not all of which I necessarily see as aspersions, but the "Jew-hatred" one is definitely over the line - but it's from September so a bit late to sanction for just that) - did anyone point out that aspersions/incivility in this topic area is sanctionable? I see the warnings for 1RR and consensus required... Ealdgyth (talk) 13:30, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
- @KronosAlight: - can you address the fact that saying "correcting factual errors introduced by previous antisemitic editors" and "Is there no limits you will not cross in order to seek to justify your Jew-hatred"? Neither of these are statements that should ever be made - and the fact that you seem to not to understand this is making me lean towards a topic ban. Ealdgyth (talk) 14:45, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- KronosAlight, can you please provide quotes from the references you cited for - for instance - "for his terrorist activities" in this addition, showing that the sources explicitly supported the content you added? Calling a person or an organization is perfectly acceptable if you support that with reliable sources; if it is original research, or source misrepresentation, it isn't acceptable. I cannot access some of the sources in question. You may provide quotes inside a collapsed section if you wish to save space. Vanamonde93 (talk) 19:28, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
- I missed Zero's comments earlier. A lot of those comments, while concerning, are generic, not directed at a specific editor. this, however, is beyond the pale. I would need some convincing that this user is able to edit this area constructively. Vanamonde93 (talk) 20:56, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
- @KronosAlight, can you please respond to this? I too am concerned...the quote you're objecting to wasn't from DrSmarty. It was a direct quote, scare quotes and all, from the US Holocaust Memorial Museum. You seem to have reacted to it as if it were DrSmarty. Valereee (talk) 16:06, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- I missed Zero's comments earlier. A lot of those comments, while concerning, are generic, not directed at a specific editor. this, however, is beyond the pale. I would need some convincing that this user is able to edit this area constructively. Vanamonde93 (talk) 20:56, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
- I don't like to sanction in absentia, and I'm not yet suggesting we do so, but I want to note that not choosing not to respond here, or going inactive to avoid responding, will not improve the outcome as far as I am concerned. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:20, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- They're a pretty sporadic editor...many edits over a period of a few days, then nothing for two weeks. Maybe we pin this until they edit again? Valereee (talk) 17:26, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- I agree with Valereee that this editors contribution history shows a pattern of editing for a day or two at a time followed by several weeks of inactivity. So I don't think it's fair to say they went inactive here but also holding this open for multiple weeks waiting for a response places some burden on the other other interested editors. Barkeep49 (talk) 17:33, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- They're a pretty sporadic editor...many edits over a period of a few days, then nothing for two weeks. Maybe we pin this until they edit again? Valereee (talk) 17:26, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Nicoljaus
Procedural notes: Per the rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals, a "clear and substantial consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.
To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
- Appealing user
- Nicoljaus (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:09, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- Sanction being appealed
- To enforce an arbitration decision, and for edit warring, and intent to game 1rr, you have been blocked indefinitely from editing Misplaced Pages.
- Administrator imposing the sanction
- ScottishFinnishRadish (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
- Notification of that administrator
- I'm aware. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Nicoljaus
The circumstances of my blocking were:
- I was looking for a Misplaced Pages account for Hiba Abu Nada to add it to Wikidata. I couldn't find it, so I did a little research. The reference in the article indicated that she participated in some WikiWrites(?) project. I didn’t find such a project, but I found the WikiRights project: https://ar.wikipedia.org/ويكيبيديا:ويكي_رايتس. It was organized by a certain Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor. I read the Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor article and didn't see any outside perspective, "controversy" or anything like that, just self-representation. I surfed the Internet and instantly found information that must be in the article to comply with the NPOV. I started adding , everything went well for two days. Then:
- 12:53, 23 April 2024 - Zero0000 made a complete cancellation of all additions
- 13:14, 23 April 2024 - (20 minutes later!) Selfstudier wrote on my TP
- 14:20 - 14:22, 23 April 2024 - With two edits (first, second) I partially took into account the comment of Zero0000 about "ethnic marking", but returned the last .
- 14:27, 23 April 2024 (7 minutes later!!) Selfstudier makes a second complete cancellation of all my edits, blaming POV editing
- 14:45, 23 April 2024 - I’m returning the version where I partially took into account Zero0000’s comments (removed "ethnic marking")
- 15:10, 23 April 2024 - Selfstudier accuses me of 1RR breach. In the dialogue, I explained that the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination. My first undo was part of a counter edit User talk:Nicoljaus#1RR_breach
- 15:41, 23 April 2024 Selfstudier writes on Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement
- 16:10, 23 April 2024 (30 minutes later!) ScottishFinnishRadish issues an indefinite block . No opportunity to write my “statement”, as well as an extremely bad faith interpretation of my remark as "an intent to game 1rr".
Given that the both Selfstudier and Zero0000 are currently being discussed in Arbcom (https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_5/Evidence), I humbly ask you to take a fresh look at my indefinite block and soften the restrictions in some way". Nicoljaus (talk) 19:32, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- @ScottishFinnishRadish: - You mean, I need to discuss my previous edit war blocks? Well, the last one was almost four years ago and that time I simply forgot that I was under 1RR (there was a big break in editing) and tried to get sources for a newly added map, and the opponent refused to do so . As it turned out later, the true source was a book by a fringe author, which the RSN called "Usual nationalistic bullshit, no sign of reliability". Yes, it was a stupid forgetfulness on my part. Nicoljaus (talk) 16:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Aquillion:
Even if you were correct that Selfstudier & Zero0000 were WP:TAGTEAMing (always a tricky accusation, because it's hard to separate that from just your edits being so obviously problematic that two people independently reverted them)
-- That's why I wrote that my "so problematic edits" attracted attention only after two days, but two users appeared within 20 minutes. However, after months, a lot of data about the cooperation of these users appeared (and this is not my imagination): "While a single editor, Shane (a newbie), advocated for its inclusion, a trio of veterans including Zero0000, Nishidani and Selfstudier fought back. After Selfstudier accused Shane of being a troll for arguing for the photo’s inclusion, Zero0000, days later, “objected” to its inclusion, citing issues of provenance. Nishidani stepped in to back up Zero0000, prompting a response by Shane. The following day, Zero0000 pushed back against Shane, who responded. The day after, Nishidani returned with his own pushback. The tag-team effort proved too much for Shane, who simply gave up, and the effort succeeded: the photo remains absent" . I'll add that after Selfstudier accused Shane of trolling, Zero0000 appeared on Shane's page and said: "Kindly keep your insults to yourself I won't hesitate to propose you for blocking if you keep it up" . According to the table at the link , these two users cooperated like this 720 times. Probably hundreds of people were embittered, forced out of the project, or led to blocking like me.--Nicoljaus (talk) 13:02, 20 December 2024 (UTC) - @ScottishFinnishRadish: Hello, thank you very much for transferring my remarks, now I understand how it works. I would like to clarify the issue of meatpuppetry. You directly accused me of such intentions in justifying the block, and now this accusation has been repeated . Let's figure out whether my hint that Selfstudier and Zero0000 are working too closely was so absurd? Was it really and remains so absurd that it could not be perceived as anything other than my self-exposure? I don't think so.
As for the "edit war" - I understand that edit wars are evil. In the spirit of cooperation, I tried to meet my opponents halfway, as in this case, taking into account their claim, which I could understand, in the counter edit. If such an action is also considered an edit war and a violation of the 1RR/3RR rule - I will of course avoid it in the future.--Nicoljaus (talk) 16:00, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
@Valereee: Hello, I understand your point that edit wars can be disruptive, particularly in a CTOP context. However, I believe it is essential to recognize that not all reverts carry the same implications. While it is true that a revert is a revert, the context and intent behind the action should also be taken into account. In this instance, I made efforts to address the concerns of the other party involved, which reflects a willingness to engage in dialogue rather than simply reverting. Furthermore, I acknowledge your reference to the 1RR/3RR rule and my history of blocks for edit-warring. However, given the amount of time that has passed, I believe I have gained valuable insights and learned a great deal. Moreover, given this topic, I think I actually learned something unlike the other side, whose history of blocks for edit-warring remains clean.--Nicoljaus (talk) 4:24 am, Today (UTC−5)
@Valereee: In response to this, I can say that I already know very well how carelessly admins impose blocks. If any further statements are needed from me, just ping me. With best regards.--Nicoljaus (talk) 09:51, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by ScottishFinnishRadish
Absent from the appeal is discussion of the five prior edit warring blocks and any indication that they will not resume edit warring. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- I said
They have a long history of edit warring, so I'd like to see that addressed rather than blaming others
above, twelve days ago. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:30, 19 December 2024 (UTC) - Nicoljaus, you should be focusing on convincing people that you won't edit war in the future rather than more WP:NOTTHEM. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:11, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by (involved editor 1)
Statement by (involved editor 2)
Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Nicoljaus
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Simonm223
This edit looks like a bright-line WP:BLP violation via WP:ATTACK and WP:WEASEL - and removing BLP violations are generally somewhere where there is some latitude on WP:1RR which makes the actions of Zero0000 and Selfstudier more justified, not less. Simonm223 (talk) 13:50, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Aquillion
Selfstudier accuses me of 1RR breach. In the dialogue, I explained that the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination. My first undo was part of a counter edit
- I feel like this is obvious enough that I probably don't have to point it out, but "counter edit" is not a WP:3RR / WP:1RR exception. Even if you were correct that Selfstudier & Zero0000 were WP:TAGTEAMing (always a tricky accusation, because it's hard to separate that from just your edits being so obviously problematic that two people independently reverted them), it still would not justify your revert. The fact that they're parties to an ArbCom case (which hasn't even yet found any fault with them!) doesn't change any of this. You should probably read WP:NOTTHEM. --Aquillion (talk) 14:15, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Sean.hoyland
"the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination"...yet another conspiracy-minded evidence-free accusation against editors in the PIA topic area, the third one at AE in just a few days. Sean.hoyland (talk) 14:59, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by (uninvolved editor 1)
Result of the appeal by Nicoljaus
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- I do not see any indication that Nicoljaus actually realizes the problem. The edit warring blocks were indeed some time ago, but one might think they would remember it after being blocked for it repeatedly, not to mention that being issued a CTOP notice might call a CTOP restriction to mind. And the remark in question sure looks to me like a threat to game 1RR via meatpuppetry, too. Given all that, I would decline this appeal. Seraphimblade 23:10, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- I see nothing in this appeal that makes me think they've taken on board the changes that they'd need to do to be a productive editor. It reads to me like "my block was bad, here's why", and that's not working as a reason for me to support unblocking. Ealdgyth (talk) 23:21, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- Nicoljaus, what we need to see is you demonstrating you understand edit-warring at a CTOP, which is what you were blocked for, and convincing us you won't do it again. Arguing the block should be lifted because other editors did something you thought looked suspicious isn't going to convince us. Just FWIW, Nicoljaus, the source doesn't actually say these two users cooperated like this 720 times. It says they edited the same articles 720 times, and that's not unusual. Most editors see the same other editors over and over again in articles about their primary interest. And edit by editor 1>2 days>revert by editor 2>revert by editor 1>20 minutes>revert by editor 3 is also not at all unusual anywhere on the encyclopedia and isn't evidence of tag-teaming. People read their watch lists. Any editor with that article on their watchlist, which is nearly fifty editors, might have investigated the large revert of an edit by an experienced editor at a contentious topic. Valereee (talk) 15:18, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Nicoljaus, it's not that edit wars are evil. It's that they're disruptive, and particularly in a CTOP we really really don't need additional disruption and drama. A revert is a revert, even if you tried to meet my opponents halfway, as in this case, taking into account their claim, which I could understand, in the counter edit. Re: If such an action is also considered an edit war and a violation of the 1RR/3RR rule: a revert is a revert and is covered in the policy around reversions. And you have a history of blocks for edit-warring, including at other CTOPs.
- It's been seven months since the block. I'm trying to come around to a way to at least allow this editor a chance to show us they've taken this stuff on board...maybe a 0RR at all CTOPs? Valereee (talk) 17:44, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Nicoljaus, re I believe it is essential to recognize that not all reverts carry the same implications. While it is true that a revert is a revert, the context and intent behind the action should also be taken into account. In this instance, I made efforts to address the concerns of the other party involved, which reflects a willingness to engage in dialogue rather than simply reverting. Some editors at talk pages will take your apparent intentions into account. Some will just take you to ANEW. Some admins at ANEW will take your apparent intentions into account. Some will just reblock you.
- No one anywhere is promising that your intentions will be taken into account -- or even that they'll try to figure out what your intentions are -- and therefore it's completely your responsibility to read the situation you're in correctly. If you read it wrong, you're likely to be blocked again, and honestly another block for edit-warring at a CTOP is likely to be another indef, and it would absolutely not surprise me for the blocking admin to require 12 months to appeal. Valereee (talk) 15:25, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- No need to reply, but I'll tell you plainly I've been trying to give you opportunities to convince other admins here, and you keep wanting to dig the hole deeper. I'd support an unblock with an editing restriction of 0RR at any article with a CTOPs designation on the talk page. Valereee (talk) 13:13, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
PerspicazHistorian
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning PerspicazHistorian
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- NXcrypto (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- PerspicazHistorian (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- WP:ARBIPA
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 17:57, 18 December 2024 - removed "discrimination" sidebar from the page of Hindutva (fascist ideology) even though the sidebar was inserted inside a section, not even the lead.
- 17:59, 18 December 2024 - tag bombed the highly vetted Hindutva article without any discussion or reason
- 10:15, 18 December 2024 - attributing castes to people withhout any sources
- 12:11, 18 December 2024 - edit warring to impose the above edits after getting reverted
- 17:09, 18 December 2024 - just like above, but this time he also added unreliable sources
- 18:29, 18 December 2024 - still edit warring and using edit summaries instead of talk page for conversation
- 14:46, 19 December 2024 (UTC) - filed an outrageous report on WP:ANI without notifying any editors. This report was closed by Bbb23 as "
This is nothing but a malplaced, frivolous personal attack by the OP.
"
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
I do not see any positive signs that this editor will ever improve. So far he has only regressed. Nxcrypto Message 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- While going through this report, PerspicazHistorian has made another highly problematic edit here by edit warring and misrepresenting the sources to label the organisation as "terrorist". This primary source only provides a list of organisations termed by the Indian government as "terrorist" contrary to MOS:TERRORIST. Nxcrypto Message 03:12, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
Discussion concerning PerspicazHistorian
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by PerspicazHistorian
By far I am also concerned how my edits were forcefully reverted without a proper reason despite providing enough references. Please check how I am getting attacked by them on Chandraseniya_Kayastha_Prabhu Page.
I didn't know about the three-revert-rule before User: Ratnahastin told me about this: User_talk:PerspicazHistorian.
Please grant me one more chance, I will make sure not to edit war.
In the below statement by LukeEmily, As a reply I just want to say that I was just making obvious edit on Chandraseniya_Kayastha_Prabhu by adding a list of notable people with proper references. And according to Edit_warring#What_edit_warring_is it is clearly said: "Edits from a slanted point of view, general insertion or removal of material, or other good-faith changes are not considered vandalism." It was a good faith edit but others reverted it. I accept my mistake of not raising it on talk page as a part of Misplaced Pages:BOLD,_revert,_discuss_cycle.
As a clarification to my edit on Students' Islamic Movement of India, it can be clearly seen that I provided enough reference to prove its a terrorist organisation as seen in this edit. I don't know why is there a discussion to this obvious edit? Admins please correct me if I am wrong.
- @Valereee, Yes I read about 1RR and 0RR revert rules in Misplaced Pages:Edit warring#What edit warring is#Other revert rules. I now understand the importance of raising the topic on talk page whenever a consensus is needed. Thank You ! PerspicazHistorian (talk) 07:16, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, I will commit to that. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 13:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC) Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section. Seraphimblade 13:19, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- At that time I was new to how AFD discussions worked. Later on when Satish R. Devane was marked for deletion, I respected the consensus by not interfering in it. The article was later deleted. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 11:54, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- Hi @Doug Weller , I just checked your user page. You have 16 years (I am 19) of experience on wiki, you must be right about me. I agree that my start on Misplaced Pages has been horrible, but I am learning a lot from you all. I promise that I will do better, get more neutral here and contribute to the platform to my best. Please don't block me.
- P.S.- I don't know If I will be blocked or what , according to this enforcement rules, I just want to personally wish good luck to you for your ongoing cancer treatments, You will surely win this battle of Life. Regards. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 12:23, 21 December 2024 (UTC)Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section.Valereee (talk) 15:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by LukeEmily
PerspicazHistorian also violated WP:BRD by engaging in an edit war with Ratnahastin who reverted his edits and restored an article to a stable version by admin. Also, I want to assume good faith but it is surprising that PerspicazHistorian claims that he did not know the three revert rule given that he has more than 800 edits.LukeEmily (talk)
Statement by Doug Weller
I'm involved so just commenting. I don't think this editor is competent. I had to give them a community sanction caste warning as they were making a mess of castes. See this earlier version of their talk page.]https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:PerspicazHistorian&oldid=1262289249] and User:Deb's comment that "It was very unwise of you to keep moving Draft:Satish R. Devane to article space when it has not passed review. As a direct result of your actions, a deletion discussion is taking place, and when this is complete and the article is deleted, you will be prevented from recreating it. Deb (talk) 14:44, 4 December 2024 (UTC)" There have also been copyright issues. I strongly support a topic ban. Doug Weller talk 11:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- I won't be involved in the decision. No more treatments for me, just coast until... Doug Weller talk 12:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
Result concerning PerspicazHistorian
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
PerspicazHistorian, can you explain your understanding of WP:edit warring and the WP:3RR rule? I'd like you to read thoroughly enough to also explain wny someone may be edit warring even if they aren't breaking 3RR. Valereee (talk) 21:58, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- @PerspicazHistorian, that explanation of edit warring is a bit wanting. An edit war is when two or more editors revert content additions/removals repeatedly. Even a second reversion by the same editor can be considered edit warring. Best practice -- and what I highly recommend, especially for any inexperienced editor -- is the first time someone reverts an edit of yours, go to the talk page, open a section, ping the editor who reverted you, and discuss. Do you think you can commit to that?
- Re: your question on why your "obvious edit" was reverted: we don't deal with content issues here, only with behavior issues, but from a very quick look, the source is 50 years old, and using a list headed "TERRORIST ORGANISATIONS LISTED IN THE FIRST SCHEDULE OF THE UNLAWFUL ACTIVITIES (PREVENTION) ACT, 1967" that includes a certain organization as a source that the organization should be described as a terrorist organization is WP:ORIGINAL RESEARCH; in their revert NXcrypto provided an edit summary of "Not a reliable source for such a contentious label. See WP:LABEL." Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here. Valereee (talk) 11:28, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
Walter Tau
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Walter Tau
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Bobby Cohn (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 20:51, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Walter Tau (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Eastern Europe#Final decision
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 4 December 2024 Creation (and subsequent editing and AfC submission) of Draft:Maternity capital. See it's page history, there's no need to supply the entirety of the diffs here.
- For context on how this subject falls under the purview, see the context given by the news article as shared on the talk page: Russia using adoption of Ukranian children during the Russo-Ukranian war. Then note how this state program directly discusses adoption support, which was adapted by Putin following the start of the war. A citation given in the draft article. The Google translated version specifically notes the changes "At the same time, residents of the new regions will receive maternity capital regardless of the basis and timing of their acquisition of Russian citizenship" (emphasis mine).
- This draft, as it is written, is extremely promotional in areas and could basically be hosted on a state-sponsored website. Given the context, I believe this falls under the topic ban.
References
- Bruce, Camdyn (14 December 2022). "Ukrainian official rips Russia for 'kidnapping' more than 13,000 children". The Hill.
- "Путин подписал закон, уточняющий условия выплаты материнского капитала" . interfax.ru.
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- 26 November 2024 Notice given by Rosguill (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) that they were now subject to an arbitration enforcement sanction
- 5 December 2024 Blocked by Swatjester (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) for violating the sanction based on the edits to a project page.
- If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
- Has been made aware, see the diffs in the above section.
- Alerted about contentious topics as it applies to this specific draft, on 4 December 2024 by Asilvering (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA), given a warning about this specific draft and how it falls under the above purview.
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
It has been repeatedly pointed out to Walter Tau that they are skirting the line of the their topic ban by specifically not mentioning the "elephant in the room", see the diff by Asilvering above. They have also repeatedly chosen to ignore advice that they stop editing in the subject area and have repeatedly claimed to fail to see how their editing is problematic. As such, I have opened this discussion here so as to get an answer for Walter Tau on their editing, see "Also, since you mentioned a "topic ban", I would appreciate, if you provide a reference to it, as well as explain how it relates to this article Materniy Capital." They claim to continuously be unaware of the ban, see also their talk page discussions.
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Notified 24 December 2024.
Discussion concerning Walter Tau
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Walter Tau
I feel, that the decision by Boby Cohn regarding my draft https://en.wikipedia.org/Draft:Maternity_capital, is "arbitrary and capriciuos" to use US legal terms : ], for the following reasons:
1) nowhere my draft mentions the words "Ukraine" or "Ukrainian".
2) this draft ] is a translation of the original Russian wiki- article : https://ru.wikipedia.org/%D0%9C%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BB . I have heard the argument, that different languages in Misplaced Pages use different standards for articles' notability etc. Can someone please provide a web-link to Misplaced Pages rules, that actually confirms, that different standards for different languages is the currently accepted policy. I have been unable to find such statement.
3) In fact, my draft focuses mostly on the policies before 24 February 2022, i.e. before full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine.
4) Please correct me, if I am wrong, by it seems that Boby Cohn's only argument of my ban violation is the following statement in my draft of Maternity Capital. "Residents of new regions are paid maternity capital regardless of the time and basis for obtaining Russian citizenship." In my defense: I did not write that statement- it is a Google translation from the Russian wiki, actually a small part of the translated text. And with all honesty, when I was reading the translated text, it did not cross my mind, that someone may interpret so broadly. Also, this sentence-in-question does not really add much to the main subject to the article, and I do not object to its deletion.
5) Considering, that a) I did not write, but only translated the text-in-question; b) the relevance to the text-in-question to my topic ban is not apparent, particularly in the larger context of the whole article; c) I do not object deleting the text-in-question from the draft; may I suggest changing the draft to fix this controversy?
6) If there are other controversial sections/sentences in my translated draft, it may be better if someone re-writes them. Most wiki-readers, can agree with a statement, that this draft ] may not reach an "Article of the Day" status, but it has a value as a stand-alone article as well as a source of references (more-to-be-added). Walter Tau (talk) 13:45, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
I can see now, why some editors consider the translated addition, that I made, a violation of my ban on editing Russia-Ukraine topic. It was not my intention. I fact, I agree with the deletion of the questionable sentence "Residents of new regions are paid maternity capital regardless of the time and basis for obtaining Russian citizenship.". At the same time, I would like to keep the rest of draft, so that myself and other keep working on getting it published. Do I understand correctly, that the notability of this topic is not being questioned?
Statement by TylerBurden
Walter Tau doesn't seem to think they have done anything wrong on Misplaced Pages, so it's honestly not surprising to see them continuing to push the limit despite the sanctions they have received. At some point you have to wonder if there is a foundational WP:COMPETENCE or trolling (or a combination of both) issue. Either way, yes they are clearly violating their topic ban by writing about the Russian kidnapping of Ukrainian children from the war, because that is what this whole ″adoption″ thing is. --TylerBurden (talk) 17:22, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by (username)
Result concerning Walter Tau
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- Sidestepping for now the question of whether simply not mentioning anything conflict-related would have been enough to avoid a TBAN violation, the references to "new regions" make this a violation much more straightforwardly. Justice is blind but not stupid. Walter, I think we're going to need to see recognition from you that this was a TBAN violation, if we're going to find a good path forward here. I'd also like to know who you are referring to when you reference other editors working on the draft? Auric has made some gnomish edits but you appear to be the only substantive editor. And why are you implying, on Bobby's talk, that y'all have been corresponding by email, when he denies that? -- Tamzin (they|xe|🤷) 22:29, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- I'll be direct: I think Walter knows what he is doing and has no intention of abiding by his TBAN, even when it was exhaustively explained to him, and I don't think we should be wasting further time here when we're almost certainly going to be right back here again within a few weeks. ⇒SWATJester 05:29, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
- Back off a one week block for violating the topic ban, and already violating it again? (The "new regions" material is unquestionably a violation.) It seems that Walter Tau is either unwilling or unable to abide by the restriction, and does not, even after explanation, understand any of the issues here (or even understand something so simple as that different language Wikipedias are independent from one another and each have their own policies and practices). Given that, I don't see anything to be done here except to indef. Seraphimblade 17:45, 25 December 2024 (UTC)