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Revision as of 16:51, 15 October 2011 editHodja Nasreddin (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Pending changes reviewers31,217 edits →Undue and POV/BLP information removed from the article: @Russavia. I probably own a more definitive answer here.← Previous edit Latest revision as of 00:30, 3 November 2024 edit undoAltenmann (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers217,119 edits →Dobrolyot and Aeroflot 
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== Undue and POV/BLP information removed from the article == == Archived sources not used in the article ==
*{{cite news|title= List Reveals World's Deadliest Airlines|publisher= ]|date= 20 May 2010|url= http://news.travel.aol.com/2010/05/20/worlds-most-deadly-airline/}}&nbsp;{{webarchive |url=https://web.archive.org/web/20150801121308/http://news.travel.aol.com/2010/05/20/worlds-most-deadly-airline/ |date=1 August 2015 }}
*{{cite news|last= Borodina|first= Polina|title= Aeroflot 9-month net income up 40%|url= http://atwonline.com/finance-amp-data/aeroflot-9-month-net-income-40|work= ]|date= 31 October 2013|archiveurl= http://web.archive.org/web/20131103095342/http://atwonline.com/finance-amp-data/aeroflot-9-month-net-income-40|archivedate= 3 November 2013 }}
*{{cite news|first=Jens|last= Flottau|first2= Maxim|last2= Pyadushkin|title= Aeroflot Shrinks A350-800 Order|work= ]|date= 28 October 2013|url= http://aviationweek.com/awin/aeroflot-shrinks-a350-800-order|archiveurl= http://web.archive.org/web/20140620142148/http://aviationweek.com/awin/aeroflot-shrinks-a350-800-order|archivedate= 20 June 2014 }}
*{{cite news|last= Shatalova|first= Ekaterina|title= Aeroflot Plans 10% Sale to Establish Value for Privatization|work= ]|date= 3 December 2013|url= http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-03/aeroflot-plans-10-stake-sale-to-establish-privatization-value.html|archiveurl= http://web.archive.org/web/20131228140247/http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-03/aeroflot-plans-10-stake-sale-to-establish-privatization-value.html|archivedate= 28 December 2013 }}
*{{Cite news|title=Airbus Wins Aeroflot A350 Order, Offers Russia Role (Update2)|first1= Lyubov|last1= Pronina|first2= Andrea|last2= Rothman|publisher= ]|date= 22 March 2007|url= http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=asgcN90X0U0I|archiveurl= http://www.webcitation.org/6AV2KJ05z|archivedate= 7 September 2012}}
*{{cite news|title= Sukhoi delivers 10th Superjet, but output still lagging|first= Stephen|last= Trimble|location= Washington, D.C.|publisher= ]|date= 30 July 2012|url= http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/sukhoi-delivers-10th-superjet-but-output-still-lagging-374889/|archiveurl= http://www.webcitation.org/6HG3MWzgN|archivedate= 9 June 2013}}
*{{cite news|title= Aeroflot takes delivery of first upgraded Sukhoi SSJ100|first= Kathryn M.|last= Young|publisher= ]|date= 31 May 2013|url= http://atwonline.com/airframes/aeroflot-takes-delivery-first-upgraded-sukhoi-ssj100|archiveurl= http://www.webcitation.org/6HG6AVBMN|archivedate= 9 June 2013}}
*{{cite news|title= Aeroflot receives Superjet simulator|first= David|last= Kaminski-Morrow|location= ]|publisher= ]|date= 3 April 2013|url= http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/aeroflot-receives-superjet-simulator-384146/}}&nbsp;{{webarchive |url=https://web.archive.org/web/20141221202720/http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/aeroflot-receives-superjet-simulator-384146/ |date=21 December 2014 }}
*{{cite news|title= Aeroflot Gets First 'Full-Spec' Superjet|publisher= ]|date= 31 May 2013|url= http://en.rian.ru/business/20130531/181441898/Aeroflot-Gets-First-Full-Spec-Superjet.html|archiveurl= http://www.webcitation.org/6HG8TPLow|archivedate= 9 June 2013}}
*{{Cite news|title= Aeroflot profits up on regional airlines turnaround|location= Moscow|work= ]|date= 2 December 2013|first= Megan|last= Davies|url= http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/02/russia-aeroflot-idUSL2N0JH07N20131202}}&nbsp;{{webarchive |url=https://web.archive.org/web/20140602032123/http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/02/russia-aeroflot-idUSL2N0JH07N20131202 |date=2 June 2014 }}
*{{cite news|title= New Aeroflot subsidiary to fly from Sheremetyevo Airport initially|first= Polina|last= Borodina|work= ]|date= 6 October 2014|url= http://atwonline.com/airports-routes/new-aeroflot-subsidiary-fly-sheremetyevo-airport-initially}}&nbsp;{{webarchive |url=https://web.archive.org/web/20141006174400/http://atwonline.com/airports-routes/new-aeroflot-subsidiary-fly-sheremetyevo-airport-initially |date=6 October 2014 }}
*{{cite news|last= Borodina|first= Polina|title= Aeroflot 9M net income up 84.1%|url=http://atwonline.com/finance-amp-data/aeroflot-9m-net-income-841|work= ]|date= 2 December 2013|archiveurl= http://web.archive.org/web/20131217010355/http://atwonline.com/finance-amp-data/aeroflot-9m-net-income-841|archivedate= 17 December 2013 }}
*{{cite news|title= Aeroflot SWOT analysis. Russia's national champion is well positioned to confront new challenges|work= Centre for Aviation|date= {{Date|2014-4-4}}|url= http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/aeroflot-swot-analysis-russias-national-champion-is-well-positioned-to-confront-new-challenges-160933|archiveurl= http://web.archive.org/web/20140417131828/http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/aeroflot-swot-analysis-russias-national-champion-is-well-positioned-to-confront-new-challenges-160933|archivedate= {{Date|2014-4-17}} }}
*{{cite news|title= Aircraft News|work= ]|date= {{Date|2013-11-7}}|url= http://atwonline.com/airframes/aircraft-news-18|archiveurl= http://archive.is/9uSjd|archivedate= {{Date|2013-11-8}}}}
*{{Cite news|title= Russian govt to sell off Aeroflot stake|first= Tom|last= Zaitsev|location= Moscow|agency= Air Transport Intelligence news|publisher= ]|date= {{date|2011-6-30}}|url= http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/06/30/359031/russian-govt-to-sell-off-aeroflot-stake.html|archiveurl= http://www.webcitation.org/6AYqUHoyI|archivedate= {{date|2012-9-9}}}}
*{{cite news|title= Aeroflot receives Soviet-retro A320|first= David|last= Kaminski-Morrow|location= ]|publisher= ]|date= {{Date|2013-5-29}}|url= http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/aeroflot-receives-soviet-retro-a320-386425/|archiveurl= http://www.webcitation.org/6GzBICx07|archivedate= {{Date|2013-5-29}}}}
*{{Cite news|title= Aeroflot to take delivery of first 777 in 2013|first= Polina|last= Borodina|publisher= Air Transport World|date= {{date|2012-9-3}}|url= http://atwonline.com/aircraft-engines-components/news/aeroflot-take-delivery-first-777-2013-0903|archiveurl= http://www.webcitation.org/6AREBBh3g|archivedate= {{date|2012-9-4}}}}
*{{Cite web|title= Profile on Aeroflot|publisher= Centre for Aviation|url= http://centreforaviation.com/profiles/airlines/aeroflot-su|archiveurl= http://www.webcitation.org/6BI4zLE0Q|archivedate= {{date|2012-10-9}}}}
* {{Cite news|url= http://www.centreforaviation.com/analysis/aeroflot-goal-of-36-russian-market-share-by-2015-seems-achievable-following-string-of-acquisitions-65959|archiveurl= http://www.webcitation.org/674xpNLxw|archivedate= {{date|2012-4-21}}|date= {{date|2012-1-12}}|publisher= Centre for Aviation|title= Aeroflot goal of 36% Russian market share by 2015 seems achievable following string of acquisitions}}
*{{cite press release|title= Boeing, Aeroflot Announce Order for Eight 777s|publisher= Boeing|date= 9 March 2011|url= http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1657|archiveurl= http://www.webcitation.org/6E8Kd3BX5|archivedate= 2 February 2013}}
*{{Cite news|title= Russia's Rostechnology finalizes big 737 buy|publisher= ]|date= 1 November 2010|url= http://atwonline.com/aircraft-engines-components/news/russias-rostechnology-finalizes-big-737-buy-1029|archiveurl= http://www.webcitation.org/6AV3A3Gqb|archivedate= 7 September 2012}}
--''']'''&nbsp;''{{sup|]}}'' 00:37, 6 July 2016 (UTC)


== External links modified ==
I have information from the article, as per some previous discussions.


Hello fellow Wikipedians,
Articles are supposed to give an overview of a subject, and the information in relation to the KGB, as presented, is ] for the article. Articles are supposed to give an overview of the subject, not delve into every controversy. I have dozens of books, magazines, journals, etc on Aeroflot, both in English and Russian (and a few in couple of other languages), and they are benchmarks for information on Aeroflot. Whilst operations for the Soviet military and KGB are mentioned, they do so albeit briefly.


I have just added archive links to {{plural:3|one external link|3 external links}} on ]. Please take a moment to review . If necessary, add {{tlx|cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{tlx|nobots|deny{{=}}InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
Suvorov's claims are also ], and are going to require some damn good extraordinary sources. As per ]
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20081121033943/https://www.aeroflot.ru/about.aspx?ob_no=5127&d_no=5982 to http://www.aeroflot.ru/about.aspx?ob_no=5127&d_no=5982
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070928004442/http://aeroflot.ru/news.asp?ob_no=142&d_no=24338 to http://aeroflot.ru/news.asp?ob_no=142&d_no=24338


When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the ''checked'' parameter below to '''true''' to let others know.
{{quote|If a viewpoint is held by an extremely small (or vastly limited) minority, it does not belong in Misplaced Pages regardless of whether it is true or not and regardless of whether you can prove it or not, except perhaps in some ancillary article.}}


{{sourcecheck|checked=true}}
The reasons extraordinary sources are required (and even then the information doesn't belong in this article) are:


Cheers. —]<small><sub style="margin-left:-14.9ex;color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS">]:Online</sub></small> 05:46, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
# If these allegedly drugged and unconscious people were forcibly repatriated to the USSR by Aeroflot, then they would have to check-in at the airport, go through immigration, customs, passport control, etc, etc. It was written in the article in such a way that this was a regular occurrence. KGB agents dragging drugged unconscious recalcitrant citizens through airports around the world, and onto civil flights, would have been something for the press to jump onto. This is especially true, given that Aeroflot flights were not restricted only to Soviet citizens, but they were often the only way for westerners to get into the Soviet Union, and the flights were used by diplomats, business people, tourists, etc. And this also includes flights from Warsaw Pact nations to the Soviet Union. This would be common knowledge, not some revelation by a disgruntled ex-spy.
# If civilian flights weren't used, they would have been military flights. As all reliable sources on Aeroflot mention, many military aircraft were operated in Aeroflot livery, but they were operated by the military. The An-22 is but one example of this. Refer to ] for photographic and written evidence of this. This would then make them not Aeroflot, but military flights. This would have been the only way possible to do anything without public attention, and these would only have been possible from friendly nations.


*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120331143050/http://www.aeroflotcargo.aero/company to http://www.aeroflotcargo.aero/company
The rest of Kuzminov's claims are very much ]. This may rate a mention in an ancillary article (as noted above), but in this article it is a minor viewpoint, and that is noted above.


{{sourcecheck|checked=failed}}
Now, in relation to Berezovsky. And this has been discussed before as well. As noted at ] the embezzlement of funds by Berezovsky and associates from Aeroflot is a byline to this article, only because it is not a major event in all that is written about Aeroflot. But it is a major event in the biography of Berezovsky, who fled Russia after the embezzlement came to notice, he was charged, tried in absentsia, and has a sentence to serve. But the problem with the information presented is that it is one-sided advocacy (propaganda) written by Alex Goldfarb, who is a close Berezovsky associate, and Marina Litvinenko (the wife of Alexander), in a book all but published and paid for by Berezovsky. As it is overly COI/self-serving material that was entered, some more reliable sources are required, and it needs to present an NPOV account of the affair, not one-side POV propaganda.


== External links modified ==
It omits facts that the companies set up by Glushkov and Berezovsky relied on a web of shady and offshore accounts and companies in places like Panama, etc. It certainly wasn't an above board operation as has been presented. Try getting sources which are ]. Propaganda is not a reliable source. ] <sup>]</sup> 10:18, 24 September 2011 (UTC)


Hello fellow Wikipedians,
: is an open violation of your interaction ban. Please self-revert. This information is obviously relevant to the subject and sourced to several books (secondary RS). This also has nothing to do with BLP. I would rather not discuss this with ''you'' in more detail, because you are under interaction ban with me. Thanks. ] (]) 11:57, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
:: The above discussion on the information removed by ] appears to be more like a political controversy rather than an encyclopedic part of the carrier's history. Perhaps this should be discussed in much detail, but my opinion is that this removed paragraph shouldn't be reinstated. As a reader, I'm really not interested in being informed such political things when I'm into an airline article looking for proper information on the airline itself. That said, I'll support the inclusion of that information in a new article, if there's not an article that already covers the topic. By contrast, the frequent flyer programme section should be available to readers again, considering that the airline is a member of an airline alliance, and that the alliance article does not provide much detail on each of the frequent flyer programmes for the constituent members.--] (]) 13:21, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
:::: This is not an ordinary airline company. Just as many other Soviet/Russian state-owned organizations, it was used for multiple purposes, even as a ] (per multiple secondary RS). For example, if certain Soviet scientific academic institutions were used as a cover of Soviet biological weapons program (per sources), this must be noted in articles about such institutions per NPOV. ] (]) 13:43, 24 September 2011 (UTC)


I have just modified 80 external links on ]. Please take a moment to review . If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit ] for additional information. I made the following changes:
::: Thanks for reminding me Jetstreamer, I was in the middle of incorporating it into another section, when other issues arose. I'll reinstate it for now. Good thing you mentioned the alliance article -- perhaps this is where all of the FFP information of constituent airlines can go, seeing as they are all so similar within alliances. It's in relation to my comments on WP:AIRLINES talk page, which I think you commented on. What do you think about that? ] <sup>]</sup> 13:32, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071016151822/http://dir.salon.com/story/tech/col/smith/2004/09/03/askthepilot101/index2.html to http://dir.salon.com/story/tech/col/smith/2004/09/03/askthepilot101/index2.html
::::Does it mean that you are not going to self-revert and stand by your revert of my edit? ] (]) 13:46, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/1998/news_release_980623b.html
:::::First of all, this single discussion should be split, as we are talking about two very different matters, and it is really becoming a hydrid one! Regarding the political framework Aeroflot was or not involved in, I repeat I'll support the creation of a new article on this particular topic (letting the bloodbuster to begin among the ones that may be involved in its edition; I'll step aside). A tentative name could be “Controversies around Aeroflot” or so. It would be interesting, though, and will also give room to insert another kind of information on the proper running of an airline. On the (very) other hand, the SkyTeam article of course should include all the stuff regarding the frequent flyer programme of its members. Nevertheless, I think we should focus on getting some articles ready for the time being (at least I'll do so), before beginning to make improvements to another ones. Despite I don't have much time due to my “non-Wiki life”, I recently got involved in editing Uzbekistan Airways just after I found an IP vandal (the same who yesterday vandalised the Aeroflot page) added fictitious airliners to both its current and retired fleet.--] (]) 14:26, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.aeroflot.ru/ru-en/flight/plane_park
:::::::If you are doing stuff on HY, you may want to check Andrew Dyubin's template on commons at the link I have given ; he has some great pics of the aircraft - others have nice pics too if you need them. As to creating ], it would be taken to ] as it would be a dumping ground for advocacy, using really bad sources, such as those I presented above. I'll defer to Igny's comments below, which mirror mine above, in relation to creating a "controversy" article. Anyway, if you need pics of HY, go get 'em and upload. --] <sup>]</sup> 15:16, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110713055713/http://www.aeroflot.ru/cms/en/flight/comfort_plus to http://www.aeroflot.ru/cms/en/flight/comfort_plus
Here is the litmus test. An article on ] says about IBM's collaboration with Nazi the following
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://en.rian.ru/business/20130131/179143953/Aeroflot-Boeing-777-300ER-Grounded-by-Missing-Certificate.html
:''In 1937, IBM's tabulating equipment enabled organizations to process unprecedented amounts of data, its clients including the U.S. Government, during its first effort to maintain the employment records for 26 million people pursuant to the Social Security Act, and the Third Reich, largely through the German subsidiary Dehomag. Also in 1937, the company president met with Adolf Hitler, and discussed issues on the supply of equipment, and in 1941 were made ​​leasing supplies to camps to accommodate the prisoners.''
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-Features/Club-News/2013/Jul/manchester-united-announce-global-partnership-with-aeroflot.aspx%23
Note the NPOV wording, nothing about number of killed Jews due to IBM's efforts or other such things. On the other hand, the book '']'' has all the details on this controversy. So there is a simple suggestion. If there is an article on evil wrongdoings of KGB and FSB, you can add the properly sourced claims on Aeroflot's contributions if it is any relevant there. Here all you can say is that Aeroflot was used by the various government offices (including KGB and FSB) for multiple government business related purposes. Note that I myself did not check the validity of the claims here, I am just proposing to remove the irrelevant material from here and add it where it is more relevant. (] (]) 14:54, 24 September 2011 (UTC))
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::''Speaking as a potential passenger, I would be very much interested to learn if I am transported together with improperly packaged deadly pathogens. So yes, this is an important information, and yes, it belongs to this article.'' How reliable this is? That was published in a printed book by an expert (and he said he picked up the pathogens from the planes himself) and never disputed in other sources to my knowledge (yes, these programs are very much active today). ] (]) 15:12, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/01/04/220610/aeroflot-ends-mainline-tu-134-operations-after-40-years.html
:::Your personal feelings aside, it is impossible to prove that this particular was never disputed anywhere. It is relatively easy for you to prove whether such claims have been accepted and verified independently. As our previous disputes showed we have very much different views on who is and who is not an expert. Anyway, as my case with IBM demonstrated there is a very neutral way to deal with any particular controversy, and that is not to add irrelevant material everywhere you feel it belongs to. (] (]) 15:16, 24 September 2011 (UTC))
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://atwonline.com/airframes/aeroflot-ends-md-11-freighter-operations
:::Re ''and he said he picked up the pathogens from the planes himself''. Sorry, it is not an independent verification. (] (]) 15:29, 24 September 2011 (UTC))
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::::It's like reading the Litvinenko article. As is written there, the thing with conspiracy theories is that the more outlandish the claim, the harder it is to disprove. Anyway, as a passenger who is interested in Aeroflot, most passengers would want to know if the service is like what they have heard about (surly and abrasive as in Soviet times), and whether the airline is really as unsafe as what they have heard. In the rewrite I have been working on, these issues will be discussed. Of course, there are always passengers who would want to know if they are going to get polonium poisoning by flying Aeroflot, due to a KGB agent being the chairman (ommitting of course he is also a politician and businessman), who has links to Putin, and we all know about Putin. Those types of passengers are called the ] and ] passenger, and frankly, they are better off flying another airline. --] <sup>]</sup> 15:37, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
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:::::Sure thing, the poisoning while flying an Aeroflot plane is a real possibility. That is what had happened with ] when she flied to Beslan: . ] (]) 00:46, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
So much fun. See where Russavia solicited Igny's appearance here. Surprise, surprise, surprise. Cheers. ] (]) 15:54, 24 September 2011 (UTC)


{{sourcecheck|checked=false|needhelp=}}
:I think we had enough time for everyone to respond. Let me just briefly summarize:
#My edit was improperly reverted in a violation of an interaction ban.
#So far, no one explained why quoted book/sources do not qualify as RS.
#I do not see why sourced information about Aeroflot should not be included in this article. Frankly, if they helped military, why we can not also note that they helped intelligence operations.


Cheers.—] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">(])</span> 13:06, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
So, if no one strongly objects, I would restore at least a part of the removed content. ] (]) 21:10, 13 October 2011 (UTC)


== Centre for aviation source ==
::I really don't care if I am banned from interacting with you Biophys. Your addition was previously removed from the article by OTHER editors many months ago. Your addition to the article was merely you using the interaction ban against me as a weapon in order to lock me out of articles. An article, mind you, which is directly in my area of '''expertise'''. So take this as an '''utmost strong''' objection on my part.


Okay, {{u|MikleffCoolX}} and {{u|CBG17}}, the pair of you are flat-out ], and I want you to come here ''right now'' and discuss your changes, otherwise you could both be facing a ] so other editors can work on the article without tripping up over your reverts. ] ] ] 14:39, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
::I'll be damned if ] are going to continue destroy Misplaced Pages, and allow major contributors and experts on articles to be sidelined, by way of using arbitration decisions as a weapon against editors. Taken in with your recent stalking of me Biophys, I will wait with baited breathe your AE request.


=== Side of {{u|MikleffCoolX}} for {{u|Ritchie333}}===
::Additionally, numerous editors above have rejected your edits, as per the logical reasoning given. You are not going to turn this article into a battleground Biophys. Numerous editors have objected to your edits on this article in relation to the issues you have injected into the article -- it is '''not''' just me. You should be posting suggested edits on the talk page so that they can be discussed by editors (including me), before placement in the article. This is part of ] - Bold, revert, discuss. So discuss your ''suggested'' changes here first please, so that ALL editors can provide their opinions on the matters you bring up.
In my opinion {{u|CBG17}} tries to show that he is right, by explaining that Aeroflot purchase of 6 Boeing 777-300er is just a memorandum of understanding, when I first mentioned the source from Russian cite ato.ru. Okay, I thought maybe he is right. But on same ato.ru, was posted the next post, that the airline already made a full contract and it has mentioned the date of first delivery of the ordered Boeings. {{u|CBG17}} again deleted my changes (maybe he doesn't know Russian), explaining that it is just a date when the orders were officially made. Alas, I found and posted the news article in English and guess what... He deleted it once again, by explaining the same reason, where in my talk page he said that the order was made by the group. I am really fed up conflicting with this person, but I am standing on the side of truth, not vandalism and I perfectly know English and Russian. I will show all my sources that I have provided previously and then we will make a final decision. If i was not right, or the information is hidden by other various reasons, then I bring my apologies, maybe I did not understand something. Anyways, I trust your view. Sources: <ref>https://centreforaviation.com/news/aeroflot-board-approves-plans-to-purchase-six-new-boeing-777-300er-aircraft-710015</ref><ref>http://www.ato.ru/content/aeroflot-utochnil-sroki-polucheniya-dopolnitelnyh-boeing-777?slink=frs&pos=4</ref>


Check the Boeing website for these orders and there are none shown and when I researched the only 2 sources you have provided are the only reports and no one else has reported these orders not even the airline has made a statement about them if it was a firm order then it would have been reported by the airline and Boeing to confirm this so until Boeing or the airline has announced the orders then it is just a memorandum of understanding. Another example of this is with ]s orders for Boeing. Also I did not write on your talk page that the order was made i said it was approved the the Aeroflot Group so stop making false claims. ] 19:55, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
::The last thing, I know that people will say "I am an expert" on topics in which they edit, more often than not without qualification. I will happily provide the Arbitration Committee with '''confidential''' evidence of this in my case. ] <sup>]</sup> 06:18, 15 October 2011 (UTC)
:I agree with CBG17. This is not a firm order yet, so the aircraft should not be included as if they were ordered already.--''']'''&nbsp;''{{sup|]}}'' 21:04, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
:::Let me just tell that '' is absolutely within my areas of interests''. It refers to an article about biological weapons created by me, and I am certainly interested in such subjects as GRU and KGB. I edited Aeroflot before, my edit is well sourced to ''books by experts'', and it was about Aeroflot. Yes, I also did not like my editing restrictions. But ''rules must be respected''. Otherwise, we have an anarchy. Other than that, I did not came here to be involved in battlegrounds and reporting other users. All I want is the improvement of content, and my edit in this article was clearly an improvement of content. Thanks, ] (]) 15:39, 15 October 2011 (UTC)
::I'm pretty sure that {{u|MikleffCoolX}} might be connected to the ato.ru website as a contributor. ] (]) 17:49, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
::::So, here is my answer. (1) No, I am not going to AE. We have administrators. If they do not care, I do not care too. (2) Since you strongly object, then fine, keep let's keep it your way. But it does not mean that you or others should follow and revert my legitimate edits in other articles as you did in this article.] (]) 16:51, 15 October 2011 (UTC)
:::This is not true that I am a contributor to the ato.ru website. The question is closed. If you are not sure, you may contact the website itself to find more information. {{User:MikleffCoolX}} 17:53, 9 November 2017 (UTC)


{{reflist-talk}}
== Russian Aeroflot articles ==


== Giving Aeroflot's fleet a new section ==
Hi, I've scoured through the Flight Global archives, and came up with the following sources for any interested in rewriting the "Recent developments" section. ] ''<sup>"] ]"</sup>'' 09:51, 30 September 2011 (UTC) <br>

. 1992<br>
I was wondering if we can create a new article named ]. All of the data under '''Retired''' and '''History and Recent Developments''' will be exported to this article, while the '''Current fleet''' and the lead will remain in both articles. I would like ] to have a section devoted to its fleet that has the same format as ] while an article more in-depth to the airliner's fleet like ]. :) - ] (]) 00:52, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
. 1993<br>
:I also plan to also create a new article named ], in which all the information under the '''History''' section would be exported under the article, leaving a summary of 5 paragraphs in the history section of the main article to shorten the article up. There will be ''see also'' templates under the section titles of the main article that will link to the newly-created articles. - ] (]) 00:52, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
. 1994<br>

. 1995<br>
== Bizarre wording/sourcing in article intro ==
. 1997

I'm not entirely sure how to go about flagging this in the article, so I'm making a note for anyone interested here. In the intro, the sentence '''"Aeroflot was involved in numerous accidents and incidents during its operations compared to any other airline."''' is, well, somewhat nonsensical. Namely, there's a first half of a comparison missing. It is also not entirely clear where this information is to be found in the cited source.
] (]) 14:46, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
:{{ping|Vadim Galimov}} I agree that this wording is awkward and I cannot find this mention of accidents in the used. It is also used in ] to say that with Aeroflot, five times more deaths happened compared to any other airline which is not in that source however the number of deaths is actually in a Telegraph later referenced in the lead which states that Aeroflot was one of the deadliest airlines (and explains why) and now is one of the safest, so both articles should have this reflected as they currently do not. You are welcome to make changes that you believe would improve the pages or suggest them. ] (]) 21:27, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

== NPOV? ==

Hi guys. Forgive me if I'm just being sensitive, but the opening *really* seems to me like NPOV favoring Aeroflot. It almost reads like one of those infomercials, if you know what I mean. The from its inception sounds to me like the opening of a positive/NPOV (not at all trying to say positive always means NPOV) - and if I'm reading it right, it does: ''Aeroflot was the flag carrier and a state-owned enterprise of the Soviet Union (USSR). During this time, Aeroflot grew its fleet to over five thousand domestically-made aircraft and expanded to operate a domestic and international flight network of over three thousand destinations throughout the Soviet Union and the globe, making the airline the largest in the world at the time''. Again, I'm sorry if I'm being sensitive about this. Thanks,
] (]) 19:58, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

== Airspace bans ==

Why are all destinations removed from this article? They are suspended due to international sanction but not to the wish of Aeroflot, as far as I know. <span style="border:1px solid green; padding:0 2px">]&nbsp;]</span> 13:56, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

== Dobrolyot and Aeroflot ==

These are two different entities. Aeroflot was created by first merging Dobrolyot, which was a "volunteer" (whatever it meant at these times) society (Российское общество добровольного воздушного флота «Добролёт») and Главная инспекция гражданского воздушного флота, which was a governmental structure, into ], which was later got a short name Aeroflot. It was not a business in the modern sense. It was a state management entity. The whole this enwiki article is mixed and messed up. --] ] 00:28, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

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Centre for aviation source

Okay, MikleffCoolX and CBG17, the pair of you are flat-out edit warring, and I want you to come here right now and discuss your changes, otherwise you could both be facing a block so other editors can work on the article without tripping up over your reverts. Ritchie333 14:39, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

Side of MikleffCoolX for Ritchie333

In my opinion CBG17 tries to show that he is right, by explaining that Aeroflot purchase of 6 Boeing 777-300er is just a memorandum of understanding, when I first mentioned the source from Russian cite ato.ru. Okay, I thought maybe he is right. But on same ato.ru, was posted the next post, that the airline already made a full contract and it has mentioned the date of first delivery of the ordered Boeings. CBG17 again deleted my changes (maybe he doesn't know Russian), explaining that it is just a date when the orders were officially made. Alas, I found and posted the news article in English and guess what... He deleted it once again, by explaining the same reason, where in my talk page he said that the order was made by the group. I am really fed up conflicting with this person, but I am standing on the side of truth, not vandalism and I perfectly know English and Russian. I will show all my sources that I have provided previously and then we will make a final decision. If i was not right, or the information is hidden by other various reasons, then I bring my apologies, maybe I did not understand something. Anyways, I trust your view. Sources:

Check the Boeing website for these orders and there are none shown and when I researched the only 2 sources you have provided are the only reports and no one else has reported these orders not even the airline has made a statement about them if it was a firm order then it would have been reported by the airline and Boeing to confirm this so until Boeing or the airline has announced the orders then it is just a memorandum of understanding. Another example of this is with Iran Airs orders for Boeing. Also I did not write on your talk page that the order was made i said it was approved the the Aeroflot Group so stop making false claims. User talk:CBG17 19:55, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

I agree with CBG17. This is not a firm order yet, so the aircraft should not be included as if they were ordered already.--Jetstreamer  21:04, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure that MikleffCoolX might be connected to the ato.ru website as a contributor. Mistersun (talk) 17:49, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
This is not true that I am a contributor to the ato.ru website. The question is closed. If you are not sure, you may contact the website itself to find more information. User:MikleffCoolX 17:53, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

References

  1. https://centreforaviation.com/news/aeroflot-board-approves-plans-to-purchase-six-new-boeing-777-300er-aircraft-710015
  2. http://www.ato.ru/content/aeroflot-utochnil-sroki-polucheniya-dopolnitelnyh-boeing-777?slink=frs&pos=4

Giving Aeroflot's fleet a new section

I was wondering if we can create a new article named Aeroflot fleet. All of the data under Retired and History and Recent Developments will be exported to this article, while the Current fleet and the lead will remain in both articles. I would like Aeroflot to have a section devoted to its fleet that has the same format as Vietnam Airlines while an article more in-depth to the airliner's fleet like Singapore Airlines fleet. :) - Josephua (talk) 00:52, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

I also plan to also create a new article named History of Aeroflot, in which all the information under the History section would be exported under the article, leaving a summary of 5 paragraphs in the history section of the main article to shorten the article up. There will be see also templates under the section titles of the main article that will link to the newly-created articles. - Josephua (talk) 00:52, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

Bizarre wording/sourcing in article intro

I'm not entirely sure how to go about flagging this in the article, so I'm making a note for anyone interested here. In the intro, the sentence "Aeroflot was involved in numerous accidents and incidents during its operations compared to any other airline." is, well, somewhat nonsensical. Namely, there's a first half of a comparison missing. It is also not entirely clear where this information is to be found in the cited source. Vadim Galimov (talk) 14:46, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

@Vadim Galimov: I agree that this wording is awkward and I cannot find this mention of accidents in the source used. It is also used in Aeroflot accidents and incidents to say that with Aeroflot, five times more deaths happened compared to any other airline which is not in that source however the number of deaths is actually in a Telegraph article later referenced in the lead which states that Aeroflot was one of the deadliest airlines (and explains why) and now is one of the safest, so both articles should have this reflected as they currently do not. You are welcome to make changes that you believe would improve the pages or suggest them. Mellk (talk) 21:27, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

NPOV?

Hi guys. Forgive me if I'm just being sensitive, but the opening *really* seems to me like NPOV favoring Aeroflot. It almost reads like one of those infomercials, if you know what I mean. The from its inception sounds to me like the opening of a positive/NPOV (not at all trying to say positive always means NPOV) - and if I'm reading it right, it does: Aeroflot was the flag carrier and a state-owned enterprise of the Soviet Union (USSR). During this time, Aeroflot grew its fleet to over five thousand domestically-made aircraft and expanded to operate a domestic and international flight network of over three thousand destinations throughout the Soviet Union and the globe, making the airline the largest in the world at the time. Again, I'm sorry if I'm being sensitive about this. Thanks, KinneticSlammer (talk) 19:58, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Airspace bans

Why are all destinations removed from this article? They are suspended due to international sanction but not to the wish of Aeroflot, as far as I know. The Banner talk 13:56, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

Dobrolyot and Aeroflot

These are two different entities. Aeroflot was created by first merging Dobrolyot, which was a "volunteer" (whatever it meant at these times) society (Российское общество добровольного воздушного флота «Добролёт») and Главная инспекция гражданского воздушного флота, which was a governmental structure, into Main Directorate of Civil Air Fleet under the Council of Ministers of the USSR, which was later got a short name Aeroflot. It was not a business in the modern sense. It was a state management entity. The whole this enwiki article is mixed and messed up. --Altenmann >talk 00:28, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

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