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'''''Note:''' if I've made a clearly bad block, such as something that appears to be vandalism at first glance but actually has a good explanation, please unblock without waiting for me to come back online. If it's something less clear, please at least get consensus on AN/I first. Thanks.''
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Because of their length, the previous discussions on this page have been archived.
If further archiving is needed, see ].


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== Consensus of the Heroes in Hell Merge - Did it include all of the Books and Stories? ==


According to my memory during the Lawyers in Hell AfD discussion about merging the Heroes in Hell articles into one large article, it was decided ALL the articles were to be merged. No mention was made of leaving any of the articles separate.


== Wendy Carlos Reversion ==
When I went to merge the one remaining article, one editor got really upset saying that the merge discussion did not include this article, ]. I believe that the consensus was for all articles. The admin who is currently handling the dispute was not involved at the time, and needs to see a '''show of hands.''' If you have any opinion on the issue could you please make your opinion known at ]. ] (]) 16:04, 22 October 2011 (UTC)


Hi SarekOfVulcan
== I am sure you know what a legal threat is... ==
You reverted my research on Wendy Carlos based on ancestry.com and archives.com, however these websites are based on information from official US documents, so what's the issue? ] (]) 21:44, 20 October 2024 (UTC)


== Invitation to participate in a research ==
...and how use of the Wiki libel page is not. I clearly stated he was crossing a line. Made no threat of any action, legal or otherwise.--] (]) 23:08, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
:Also I have no problem mentioning that I received a block for a boarder line offense of this nature, lost privileges that will likely never return as well as the respect of many in the project over the issue that will take time to recover if ever. Learning from mistakes is something I take seriously.--] (]) 23:49, 24 October 2011 (UTC)


Hello,
== 10c removal edit summaries ==


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I've performed several thousand of these edits with this edit summary. I use the wording I do because I've run into people who think 10c is optional. The point is to convey via edit summary that this isn't optional, and to give links to appropriate policy and essays. If a person restores an image, I use ] as a template to further bring home the point. The manner in which I conduct these edits has worked quite well. --] (]) 18:06, 25 October 2011 (UTC)


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== AE ==


Kind Regards,
Hi. Note that this was the first violation of the interaction ban for Volunteer Marek and the fourth one for Russavia. Are you sure that the length of the block should be the same? ] (]) 16:20, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
:I count second to third, but I agree with your sentiment (see my post below). --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]&#124;]</sub> 16:24, 27 October 2011 (UTC)


]
== Unfair treatment ==


<bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">] (]) 19:21, 23 October 2024 (UTC) </bdi>
Self-censored per --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]&#124;]</sub> 16:22, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
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:Their last i-ban violations got them 3 and 4 day blocks -- therefore, 1 week is reasonable for both, imo. --] 16:25, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
::Self-censored per --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]&#124;]</sub> 16:31, 27 October 2011 (UTC)


== Administrators' newsletter – November 2024 ==
== AE thread ==


] from the past month (October 2024).
No objections against your close of the Russavia AE thread, but I just wanted to note that I might be considering yet more sanctions regarding other participants there. But I'm in a hurry now, more later. ] ] 17:17, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
:Oh, ok, I'll un-hat it. I just closed it because it had been an hour with no further comment. Thanks for the note. --] 17:22, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
::Unlike ANI, AE usually moves on a timescale of days, not hours... ] (]) 17:24, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
:FPS, ? . PS. On the subject of confusion, can somebody confirm that my involvement in this discussion is acceptable (if not, as I stated earlier, I'll gladly self-rv my edits and remove myself from this issue). --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]&#124;]</sub> 18:01, 27 October 2011 (UTC)


]
== Same-sex marriage legislation in the United States ==


] '''Administrator changes'''
Why are you attacking the article? <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 17:56, 27 October 2011 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:] {{hlist|class=inline
:]. A committee reporting out a bill isn't terribly notable.--] 17:58, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
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] '''CheckUser changes'''
You just blew up that whole article.] (]) 17:59, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
:] ]
:Define "blew up".--] 18:01, 27 October 2011 (UTC)


] '''Oversighter changes'''
It looks like Vandalism ] (]) 18:08, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
:] ]
:Then I suggest you read ].--] 18:10, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
:{{ec}} It's obviously not ], which would be an intentional attempt to damage an article. As Sarek mention, he is acting on the ] guideline. The correct response would be for you to familiarize yourself with it, and address his argument, not to engage in ], and accuse others of vandalism (which, again, most obviously has NOT taken place here). --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]&#124;]</sub> 18:13, 27 October 2011 (UTC)


] '''Guideline and policy news'''
The article was basically completed demolished of current events. North Carolina and Minnesota is going to vote on amendments. Why was it removed I don't know. Washington is going to vote for marriage and Maryland is going to vote for marriage in 2012. Why was it removed I don't know? ] (]) 18:19, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
* Following a ], the ] proposal that went for a trial to refine the ] (RfA) process has been discontinued.
: ]?? (]<span style="border:1px solid black;">'''&nbsp;]&nbsp;'''</span>]) 18:21, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
* Following a ], ] is adopted as a policy.


] '''Technical news'''
I like I am personally getting my rights taken from me. By multiple people. ] (]) 18:24, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
* Mass deletions done with the ] tool now have the 'Nuke' tag. This change will make reviewing and analyzing deletions performed with the tool easier. {{phab|T366068}}
:Well, nobody has any rights here, so your perception is mistaken. --] 18:25, 27 October 2011 (UTC)


] '''Arbitration'''
It is because I am gay? ] (]) 18:26, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
* {{noping|RoySmith}}, {{noping|Barkeep49}} and {{noping|Cyberpower678}} have been appointed to the ] for the ]. {{noping|ThadeusOfNazereth}} and {{noping|Dr vulpes}} are reserve commissioners.
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Okay, I understand... <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 18:33, 27 October 2011 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
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== On anon's edit == == Revert question ==


Hi, I was wondering if you go into a little more detail on why you reverted my edits on changing to outgoing rather than incumbent. The reason why I put those in is because a new president and vice president has just been elected so since they are leaving office soon, putting them as a lame duck seems to make the most sense. I'd be willing to hear your arguments on keeping the incumbent on both the president and VP pages. I'm not sure if there was a time that we used the term outgoing for politicians leaving office, but it just doesn't make sense to keep incumbent there. ] (]) 16:10, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
Re: . I formatted it, and yes, the blog is valid, but I see nothing in the link with regards to reading order. Wrong blog post linked? PS. I need to catch up on the last book or two from that series... :) --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]&#124;]</sub> 18:16, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
:I just reverted the bot because I recognized the URL -- I didn't click through to see the specific post. --] 18:27, 27 October 2011 (UTC)


:But they are the incumbents. We don't need any further editorializing. Leave that to the headline writers. --] 16:12, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
== Good way of handling this? ==


== Books & Bytes – Issue 65 ==
Hi SoV, ] asked for me to adopt him here. I answered there and in more detail on his talkpage ("sure...", links, welcome, etc). Earlier today, ] asked for adoption. In reviewing the two accounts (see userpages), it appears it is the same editor. I've left a welcome message on the second account and advised thusly. Do you think it's sufficiently handled for now? Neither account has any real edits (so far solely to their user pages and my talk page), so I skipped a templated message for what appears to be a very new editor. Best, Rob <span style="border:1px solid #100;padding:1px;"><small>] </small>&#124;<small> <sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub></small></span> 18:25, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
:Seems reasonable. --] 18:32, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
::TY. Looks like I <s>can</s> got an explanation on my talk page, albeit from another editor. Will keep an eye. Thanks again, R <span style="border:1px solid #100;padding:1px;"><small>] </small>&#124;<small> <sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub></small></span> 19:17, 27 October 2011 (UTC)


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== Reminder to participate in Misplaced Pages research ==
As an admin you should have known better to tagged this article as a speedy, it clearly claims notability. Thanks ] <sup>]</sup> 19:14, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
:Since notability is ], I see no claims of notability there.--] 19:16, 27 October 2011 (UTC)


Hello,
== Verifiability ==


I recently invited you to take a survey about administration on Misplaced Pages. If you haven’t yet had a chance, there is still time to participate– we’d truly appreciate your feedback. The survey is anonymous and should take about 10-15 minutes to complete. You may read more about the study on its ] and view its ].
An RfC is not a means for deciding changes to policy. You seem to be treating it as if it were some hybrid between an RfC concerning a user (in which case the RfC is closed by an uninvolved editor) and a vote on policy, which it simply is not. When RfCs are on content, they are simply a way to solicit comments. They are usually closed thirty days after opened, or when consensus has been reached. It certainly is not up to anyone to make some kind of ruling, as if this is a process meant to make a firm decision.] | ] 17:06, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
:I'm sorry, but I disagree with your assertion that this was not meant to make a firm decision -- as far as I can tell, that was the whole point of moving it out from the subpages and starting an RFC.--] 17:25, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
::Sarek: thank you, I agree with you. --] (]) 17:34, 28 October 2011 (UTC)


Take the survey ''''''.
That is not whatr RfCs are for. You are not complying with our policy for RfCs. If you think I am misread the RfC policy page please - I would appreciate it if you would explain how. ] | ] 18:05, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
:"Requests for comment (RfC) is an informal, lightweight process" -- not a policy. The intent of this RFC was clearly to see if there was sufficient consensus for the proposal to adopt it -- I found that there was, so I made the change. If you think the initial proposal was _not_ for the purpose of judging consensus for the change, please tell me what wording in the proposal leads you to believe this. --] 18:11, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
Well, we did not reach consensus. And let's finish your quote "...for requesting outside input, and dispute resolution, with respect to article content, user conduct, and Misplaced Pages policy and guidelines." I have consistently and repeatedly said that the RfC solicited and received comment, i.e. outside input. Fine. It is up to editors working on the policy to make use of that input as they see fit. RfCs are not votes and they are not a mechanism for making decision outside of our normal, collaborative consensual process. They are just what they say they are, a way to attract outside comments. here is another key quote: "RfCs are not votes. Discussion controls the outcome; it is not a matter of counting up the number of votes." So I do not see how you interpret this to mean it is a vote and a mechanism for making decisions independent of discussion of the RfC. It is not ''your'' decision, it is the decision of all the editors working on the article or policy contents. ] | ] 18:20, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
:Well, you're not going to convince me of your position, so I'd suggest bringing it up at ] if you really feel that the intent of that discussion was not to determine if there was sufficient consensus to adopt that proposal. Forgot how it was framed -- what was it trying to do?--] 18:29, 28 October 2011 (UTC)


Kind Regards,
::Sarek, please undo your closure. RfCs are meant to stay open for 30 days, and this conclusion is very borderline for a major policy change. Also, there was an assurance before this started from Blueboar that he would ask two questions (do you want change, or do you prefer things as they are?). But he didn't do that, and some of the replies suggest that people would prefer no change, but are "voting" for some change as a compromise. So it was an unfortunately framed RfC, and needs a very careful closure because of that, preferably by multiple uninvolved admins who are aware of the policy issues. <font color="black">]</font> <small><sup><font color="gold">]</font><font color="lime">]</font></sup></small> 22:12, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
::::Sarek... consult with Slim Virgin. I don't really care if the RfC stays open a few more days or not, and if this needs more admin eyes, that's fine too <small>Although I suddenly find myself trying to come up with a punchline for "how many admins does it take to change a lightbulb?"</small>
::::Slim... sorry if we got our wires crossed. I thought I did what we agreed to do... I though I had worded the proposal in a way that made it clear that the choice ''was'': '''a)''' my proposed compromise (change) or '''b)''' keep as is (no change). That was my intent at least. ] (]) 22:43, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
:::::Sorry, I don't think it worked. I was ill at the time or I would have said something, so my apologies for that. Also, you didn't sign it, so I don't know whether the RfC bot would have picked it up in readable form. It reproduces whatever is before the first sig. Plus your title (compromise) made it POV from the start (I have just changed this, and added a sign after the first two lines for the bot). But whatever we do, it must stay open for the full 30 days, and we must make sure people are told about it in a completely neutral way, or it will have been a waste of time. <font color="black">]</font> <small><sup><font color="gold">]</font><font color="lime">]</font></sup></small> 22:53, 28 October 2011 (UTC)


]
:::::Blueboar, it was just too much to read. It needed two separate sections, one of which asked "Do you want to keep the first sentence as it is?" That clarity was important, and I thought we had agreed to do that. Otherwise, we have people agreeing to change because they're fed up, and think "no change" isn't a realistic option. <font color="black">]</font> <small><sup><font color="gold">]</font><font color="lime">]</font></sup></small> 22:56, 28 October 2011 (UTC)


<bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">] (]) 00:17, 13 November 2024 (UTC) </bdi>
:::Sarek, I am not going to convicne you? Why not? Aremyou just so closed mined that you do not believe in discussion? or, you quote policy only when it serves your purposes? At least no one can blame me for failing to assume good faith and be civil. And no, I do not need to go to AN. I am going to keep editing according to policy, which means that the RfC is a request for comments, not a vote, and that it must be followed by decision, not your attempt to impose your own views on the V policy page without consensus. And if you don't like it, well, then you are free to go to AN. ] | ] 22:38, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
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::::I have asked on AN/I for uninvolved admins to close it after 30 days. See . <font color="black">]</font> <small><sup><font color="gold">]</font><font color="lime">]</font></sup></small> 22:53, 28 October 2011 (UTC)


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== RE: Outing ==


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Sarek,
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== Administrators' newsletter – December 2024 ==
There's no link on Cazedessus's page that identifies him as the person he was stated to be, nor does he say it's him, so per WP:OUTING, which reads:
<br><br>


] from the past month (November 2024).
Posting another editor's personal information is harassment, unless that person voluntarily had posted his or her own information, or links to such information, on Misplaced Pages. Personal information includes legal name, date of birth, identification numbers, home or workplace address,
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Posting another editor's personal information is harassment, unless that person voluntarily had posted his or her own information, or links to such information, on Misplaced Pages. Personal information includes legal name, date of birth, identification numbers, home or workplace address.....etc.....


] '''Administrator changes'''
It's outing unless he says it's him ... per policy. I'll remove that name, per policy.
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<font color="#00ACF4">@-]]►]-@</font> 19:14, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
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:"I won the Hugo in 1966 for my fanzine" is him saying he's him, as far as I'm concerned... --] 19:15, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
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'''BUT''' not as far a wiki is concnerned. He isn't identifying himself. Unless he self-identifies by name, we can't make an assumption. (I hear ya though.... it looks pretty obvious! )
:] {{hlist|class=inline
<font color="#00ACF4">@-]]►]-@</font> 19:33, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
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== Opinion ==
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] '''Guideline and policy news'''
Since you previously commented on the outing silliness on BLPN, I'd like a reality check. Regarding Kosh Vorlon, BLPN, and ]: I'm not crazy, right? I told KV I'd block him if he kept playing that game, and immediately after, a new account shows up to revert again. By reverting and blocking an obvious troll, I'm not getting tricked into a "using his tools in a content dispute" zOMG ANI situation, am I? And do you agree that this wouldn't really be KV's style, and it's probably a joe job? I don't have the energy for an SPI, especially one that I'm pretty sure would come back negative. Thoughts? --] (]) 20:47, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
* Following ], the ] has been updated. All former administrators may now only regain the tools following a request at the ] within 5 years of their most recent admin action. Previously this applied only to administrators deysopped for inactivity.
:I'd let it ride. --] 20:49, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
* Following a ], a new speedy deletion criterion, ], has been enacted. This applies to template subpages that are no longer used.
::Thanks. --] (]) 20:50, 28 October 2011 (UTC)


] '''Technical news'''
== Your unconscionable misrepresentation of your status as "uninvolved" ==
* Technical volunteers can now register for the ], which will take place in Istanbul, Turkey. is open from November 12 to December 10, 2024.


] '''Arbitration'''
Given your prior, active involvement in the debate surrounding the evolution of "Campaign for santorum neologism", eg....
* The arbitration case '']'' (formerly titled '']'') has been closed.
:''I think that "sex-related" is more accurate, as the primary sources for the beginning of the campaign clearly state that was the goal. "Vulgar" is an opinion that was later hung on it.''--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 11:10 am, 23 June 2011, Thursday (4 months, 6 days ago) (UTC−4)
* An arbitration case titled '']'' has been opened. Evidence submissions in this case will close on 14 December.
...it is beyond me how you presumed to close the current RfC as an "uninvolved" party. Please revert your closure to allow an unbiased closure of the RfC. ] (]) 20:54, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
:I didn't see that as making me too involved to close a discussion that was that lopsided. Now, if it had been a close choice, that would be have been a different story. But in any case, I've reverted. I'll be very surprised if anyone else closes it a different way.... --] 21:01, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
::I appreciate your reconsideration. ] (]) 21:07, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
:::Sarek, I think the only way to bring closure in this incident is for you to block yourself. 24 hrs should do nicely.&ndash; ] <sup>(])</sup> 01:57, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
::::Actually, I'm thinking about blocking Slim, Jimbo, and Risker, and deleting the Main Page. If I'm going to do it, need to do it right, yes? --] 02:00, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
:::::Well, I wasn't gonna go there, but they are overdue. You can delete the main page only if you replace it with . &ndash; ] <sup>(])</sup> 02:25, 29 October 2011 (UTC)


----
== Hey ==
{{center|{{flatlist|

* ]
Hang in there. Best, Rob <span style="border:1px solid #100;padding:1px;"><small>] </small>&#124;<small> <sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub></small></span> 03:08, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
* ]
:Thanks.--] 03:09, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
* ]
::If you want you can name me your heir apparent and nom me for RFA. &ndash; ] <sup>(])</sup> 03:26, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
}}}}<!--
:::Nah, I don't dislike you that much. :-) --] 03:30, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
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::::LOL!!! &ndash; ] <sup>(])</sup> 03:33, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
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:::::Yeah, he obviously hates me though. Tricked me into getting on that ride! ;-) <span style="border:1px solid #100;padding:1px;"><small>] </small>&#124;<small> <sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub></small></span> 03:35, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
::::::Walked right into that one, didn't I? :-) --] 03:40, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

== For posterity ==

Hey Sarek. I know that with time, memories get a little faded, so I wanted to drop this note on your talk page for posterity. You resigned your adminship today. I know my opinion means squat compared with ], but I for one do not believe you resigned "under a cloud". I say this because I hope after you take some time to refocus on what brought you to Misplaced Pages in the first place (hopefully the content :), you pick up your mop again. Best, '''<font color="navy">]</font>''' ''(<font color="green">]</font>)'' 03:36, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

* I came here to say pretty much what NW has said above. I wish you well, and if I can ever do anything to help or support you, just message or email me. --] (]) 05:26, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

**What the hell are you doing resigning your admin status? Ridiculous, really... ] ] 06:15, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

You blocked me, and edited over protection to a version I saw no consensus for, and you were right. I pretty much approve of all of your tool use that I've seen. I have no idea what this resignation is about but I hope you won't reduce your presence on the project because it needs rational editors. --] (]) 07:38, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Resigned? Um, WTF? (]<span style="border:1px solid black;">'''&nbsp;]&nbsp;'''</span>]) 08:46, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Per NW: best wishes ] (]) 09:12, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

I hope you didn't resign over ]. I know you're probably not a huge fan of mine given how critical I've been in the past, but I earnestly think you did nothing wrong there and would be very sorry if my own past criticism helped lay the foundations for that nonsense. SlimVirgin is just using cheap tactics to protect her creation. Cheers.] (]) 16:56, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
:{{diff|Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents|457907516|457907118|This}} was probably the most proximate cause for my resignation. If I couldn't act while involved, but SlimVirgin and Slrubenstein could, then I was so longer interested in giving people the "involved admin" stick to beat me over the head with. --] 18:18, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
*Sarek, I'm genuinely sorry that it came to this. In my opinion, you can hold your head high. Best wishes from me, very truly. --] (]) 22:33, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Same here. SV is a Wikipolitician ''par excellence'' and you had the misfortune to get in her way. If Misplaced Pages was a functional organization your fate and hers would be the reverse of what has transpired. ] (]) 04:22, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm just here to add my support as well. Your close was a valid one, as there was and is clear consensus. Reopening the RfC could also have been valid, but it was soured by SV's behavior. She's a clearly involved admin edit warring and wikilawyering to keep her own favored version (she won't win, as consensus is solidly against her) - that's bad enough but to have the temerity in the midst of all that to cast aspersions on '''you''' for allegedly being an involved admin is just disappointing.--] (]) 07:52, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

== from Christine Lavin -- just trying to change the photo on my page ==

Hi -- All I wanted to do was fix the errors on my page and change the photo -- now I get "edit conflict" messages.

Why is adding a photo so complicated? I've been at this for over an hour -- I have a Mac, am self-taught, but I've been doing this a long time.

I hate the photo that someone posted -- I took it down; now it's back up. I updated info on my compilation with new links -- it was up; now it's reverted back to outdated info.

I have so much other work to do -- this is hanging me up -- Can you advise me? Thanks so much.


== WP:ANI ==
Christine Lavin <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 19:34, 29 October 2011 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
Please, don't start an . If you have what to say, do it ], until the question is solved. --] (]) 17:08, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
:Did you upload the file yet? There doesn't seem to be a ] last time I looked.--] 19:37, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 17:11, 27 December 2024

Note: if I've made a clearly bad block, such as something that appears to be vandalism at first glance but actually has a good explanation, please unblock without waiting for me to come back online. If it's something less clear, please at least get consensus on AN/I first. Thanks.

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Wendy Carlos Reversion

Hi SarekOfVulcan You reverted my research on Wendy Carlos based on ancestry.com and archives.com, however these websites are based on information from official US documents, so what's the issue? Egrabczewski (talk) 21:44, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 10:21, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Revert question

Hi, I was wondering if you go into a little more detail on why you reverted my edits on changing to outgoing rather than incumbent. The reason why I put those in is because a new president and vice president has just been elected so since they are leaving office soon, putting them as a lame duck seems to make the most sense. I'd be willing to hear your arguments on keeping the incumbent on both the president and VP pages. I'm not sure if there was a time that we used the term outgoing for politicians leaving office, but it just doesn't make sense to keep incumbent there. Interstellarity (talk) 16:10, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

But they are the incumbents. We don't need any further editorializing. Leave that to the headline writers. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:12, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

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WP:ANI

Please, don't start an edit war. If you have what to say, do it here, until the question is solved. --Tamtam90 (talk) 17:08, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

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