Talk:LaRouche movement: Difference between revisions

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	== ~~New~~ ~~Hampshire section~~ ==		== Who is Weld?==
			"According to courtroom testimony by FBI agent Richard Egan, Jeffrey and Michelle Steinberg, the heads of LaRouche's security unit, boasted of placing harassing phone calls all through the night to the general counsel of the Federal Elections Commission (FEC) when the FEC was investigating LaRouche's political contributions.

	This section has been left in an odd state after . We have a LaRouche spokesman denying responsibility for the cats, but no mention of the cats themselves. Either we mention the cats, and keep the denial, or we lose both the cats and the denial. Which is it to be? The cited sources were
	*Mintz, John (14 January 1985). , ''Washington Post''.
	*{{cite book\|author1=Dennis Tourish\|author2=Tim Wohlforth\|title=On the edge: political cults right and left\|url=http://books.google.com/books?id=xXcsNRUuHEUC&pg=PA77\|accessdate=21 September 2011\|year=2000\|publisher=M.E. Sharpe\|isbn=978-0-7656-0639-6\|page=77}}
	The sources look quite solid, so I am leaning towards inclusion, but I am open to argument. Is there any reason to doubt the sources? --'''<font color="#0000FF">]</font><font color=" #FFBF00">]</font><font color="#0000FF">]</font>''' 20:57, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
	:The cats and the interview are a case of ] : An encyclopedia is on the safe side without the cats and the denial. ] (]) 21:13, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
	::The alleged cat killings are a serious issue. They were raised again by Mike Royko, and LaRouche eventually sued in an unsuccessful attempt to suppress Royko's column from being printed.   <b>]  ]  </b> 23:36, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
	*We still have the odd state referred to above. So, what say ye? --'''<font color="#0000FF">]</font><font color=" #FFBF00">]</font><font color="#0000FF">]</font>''' 16:02, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
	:Let's put back at least some mention of the original assertion.   <b>]  ]  </b> 19:49, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

	== Weld material ==

	Hipocrite is mistaken, I did not delete the "Weld material," I moved it into a new section called "Association with Mitch WerBell." Also, I did not "dissemble" in my edit summary -- isn't that what is called a "personal attack"? But one final point -- I still believe that these hearsay allegations about assassination plots should be removed altogether, but I am waiting for consensus to remove them. That would certainly help to shorten the section, which still is weirdly large. ] (]) 18:23, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
	:Waalkes, I like the WerBell section. But wasn't it Frankhouser who introduced WerBell to LaRouche? (We currently have it the other way round.) --'''<font color="#0000FF">]</font><font color=" #FFBF00">]</font><font color="#0000FF">]</font>''' 15:57, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
	::Thanks JN, I will keep this in mind and research it. ] (]) 09:34, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
	:::I modified the material a little to put the events in the correct order, per Jayen466's comment.   <b>]  ]  </b> 06:13, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

			During the grand jury hearings followers picketed the courthouse, chanted "Weld is a fag", distributed leaflets accusing Weld of involvement in drug dealing, and "sang a jingle advocating that he be hanged in public"."
	Will, do you have a source for ? ] (]) 19:10, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
			This is the first and only mention of Weld in this article. Who is this?
	:What aspect of it? That Frankhouser introduced LaRouche to WerBell, instead of the other way around?   <b>]  ]  </b> 19:16, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

			] ] (]) 22:08, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
	:*''Many of LaRouche's alleged "links" to right-wingers were made at the suggestion of Frankhauser. One of these was Mitchell WerBell, a former contract CIA agent and arms manufacturer with a flair for self-promotion. ''
	:**''AMERICAN EXTREMISTS MILITIAS, SUPREMACISTS, KLANSMEN, COMMUNISTS, & OTHERS'' JOHN GEORGE & LAIRD WILCOX Prometheus Books Amherst, NY. 1996.
	:That's pretty straightforward.   <b>]  ]  </b> 19:34, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

	== ~~New~~ ~~suggestion~~ ==		== External links modified ==

			Hello fellow Wikipedians,
	Looking at the ultra-long allegations section, I notice that most of it deals with the NCLC and US Labor Party, in other words, the 1970s. We have articles on both the NCLC and the US Labor Party. If we move that "allegations" material to those articles and replace it here with a one paragraph summary, that would go a long ways toward reducing the "allegations" section to a reasonable size. ] (]) 09:31, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
	:That seems like a simple solution superficially, but it quickly becomes problematic once we look at the sources. Too often, the sources simply refer to "LaRouchites", "LaRouche follower"s, or other general designations that don't indicate precisely which entity the subjects are identifying themselves with that day. Since we're engaged in re-writing this material, we should perhaps review more recent news accounts. In fact, there has been plenty of harassment in the past decade--it didn't end in the 1980s. In many of the recent cases, the labeled entity is the ]/LPAC. Based on ], we could justify adding perhaps hundreds of words about altercations and demonstrations involving its members. The activities are basically a continuation of the activities already described here by members of other entities in previous decades, so it's actually more compact to deal with it here. OTOH, the LYM/LPAC article is relatively short, so it has room for growth if we want to add more material on recent demonstrations and altercations.   <b>]  ]  </b> 11:04, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

			I have just added archive links to {{plural:3\|one external link\|3 external links}} on ]. Please take a moment to review . If necessary, add {{tlx\|cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{tlx\|nobots\|deny{{=}}InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070430074257/http://www.larouchepac.com:80/pages/breaking_news/2007/04/27/quincy.shtml to http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/04/27/quincy.shtml
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20081109211214/http://www.larouchepac.com:80/news/2008/02/19/italian-senator-exposes-secret-plan-fascism-europe.html to http://www.larouchepac.com/news/2008/02/19/italian-senator-exposes-secret-plan-fascism-europe.html
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080908023438/http://www.larouchepac.com/news/2008/02/19/lisbon-treaty-based-program-british-fascist-oswald-mosley.html to http://www.larouchepac.com/news/2008/02/19/lisbon-treaty-based-program-british-fascist-oswald-mosley.html

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	== Despicability and Gunning fog index ==

			{{sourcecheck\|checked=false}}
	===Current lead===
	The '''LaRouche movement''' is an international political and cultural network that promotes ] and ]. It has included scores of organizations and companies around the world. Their activities include campaigning, private intelligence gathering, and publishing numerous periodicals, pamphlets, books, and online content. It characterizes itself as a Platonist Whig movement which favors re-industrialization and classical culture, and which opposes what it sees as the genocidal conspiracies of Aristotelian oligarchies such as the British Empire. Outsiders characterize it as a fringe movement and it has been criticized from across the political spectrum.

			Cheers.—]<small><sub style="margin-left:-14.9ex;color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS;">]:Online</sub></small> 10:57, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
	The movement had its origins in radical leftist student politics of the 1960s, but is now generally seen as a right-wing, fascist or unclassifiable group. It is known for its unusual theories and its confrontational behavior. In the 1970s members allegedly engaged in street violence. In the 1970s and 1980s hundreds of candidates, some with only limited knowledge of LaRouche or the movement, ran as ] on the LaRouche platform. None were elected to significant public office.

			== External links modified ==
	In 1988, LaRouche and 25 associates were convicted on fraud charges related to fund-raising, prosecutions which the movement alleged were politically motivated and which were followed by a decline in the group's influence which lasted for several years. The movement was rejuvenated in the 2000s by the creation of a youth cadre, the ], and by their prominent opposition to the Bush/Cheney administration and the Obama health care reform plan.

			Hello fellow Wikipedians,
	===Discussion===

			I have just modified 3 external links on ]. Please take a moment to review . If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit ] for additional information. I made the following changes:
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131203083630/http://www.patriotledger.com/your_vote/election-1/x128165993/Frank-meets-LaRouche-candidate-Brown-in-only-primary-debate to http://www.patriotledger.com/your_vote/election-1/x128165993/Frank-meets-LaRouche-candidate-Brown-in-only-primary-debate
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120218141859/http://www2.timesreview.com/ST/Stories/T071609_Obama_ES to http://www2.timesreview.com/ST/Stories/T071609_Obama_ES
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080404043228/http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw2001-2/poland.htm to http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw2001-2/poland.htm

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	::No Will -- this article is currently a midden of every single nugatory factoid findable which ''remotely'' connects to a single living person. There is ''no'' encyclopedic need for probably 3/4 of the material in this article other than to show how despicable LaRouche is. But Misplaced Pages is ''not'' here to show how despicable a person is - it is here to give an overview of facts presented by reliable sources. It is time to clean up the pile here - indeed, long past time. Cheers. ] (]) 12:48, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
	:::Why do you keep referring to LaRouche as "despicable"? I'm not sure that passes BLP. As for the article, it does as you say it should. It gives an overview of facts presented by reliable sources.   <b>]  ]  </b> 13:19, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
	::::If he is ''not'' putatively "despicable" then there is even ''less'' reason for this midden. This article does far more than just give a summary of facts - it lists factoid by factoid by factoid, and is sufficiently over-detailed as to be unreadable. Readibility, even of just the first paragraph, is absurd with a calculated ] over 17. I suggest that this alone suggests that the article is woeful and abysmal as far as utility for real people is concerned. Cheers. ] (]) 13:42, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
	:::::Too many big words, I guess. When we do a Simple English version I'm sure we can fix that.   <b>]  ]  </b> 20:41, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
	::::::Nope. Bad writing. Very bad writing. High school reading is a lot better than you seem to think - and writing such that a person needs up to 20 or more years of education is really ''not'' useful for general Internet users. ] is a pretty techy article - fog index under 14. ] is barely over 10. Even ] with ''big'' German words is ''under'' 17. Average scores across a lot of articles is on the order of 12. Articles with a fog index of over 17 are, in fact, just '''really badly written'''. I will grant you that ] is worse, but I doubt one person in fifty makes sense of that introduction <g>. And with a Fleisch score of 4, I would think you would not make sense of it either. Cheers. ] (]) 20:57, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
	:::::::I'm splitting this thread because we've gone in a different direction than the OP.
	:::::::We had extensive discussions of the lead a few months ago, and finally arrived at this consensus version. If you'd like to propose a fresh draft to summarize the article, then you're most welcome. It looks like one sentence alone pushes up the score: ''It characterizes itself as a Platonist Whig movement which favors re-industrialization and classical culture, and which opposes what it sees as the genocidal conspiracies of Aristotelian oligarchies such as the British Empire. '' That gets a 24 with this tester. How can we re-write that to maintain the meaning while simplifying the language?   <b>]  ]  </b> 21:08, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

			{{sourcecheck\|checked=false\|needhelp=}}
	{{ec}}It seems to me that the problem with the intro is the organization in it's own words section - "It characterizes itself as a Platonist Whig movement which favors re-industrialization and classical culture, and which opposes what it sees as the genocidal conspiracies of Aristotelian oligarchies such as the British Empire," which has an index over 24. I don't know what a "Platonist Whig" is, or what "re-industrialization and classical culture" are, and while "genocidal conspiracies of Aristotelian oligarchies" sound scary, I assume the movement prefers that to "drug-running by the Queen." What would you propose we use to self-describe the movement? ] (]) 21:10, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

			Cheers.—] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">(])</span> 22:16, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
	:::::::::Try:
	::::::::::''The '''LaRouche movement''' comprises many organizations and companies worldwide which promote the opinions of Lyndon LaRouche. It is viewed by its members as favoring classical culture and opposing conspiracies, and as being a fringe movement by its critics. ''
	::::::::::''The movement began in leftist student politics in the 1960s, but is now variously viewed as right-wing, fascist, or unclassifiable. Larouche and his movement are noted for unusual theories. In the 1970s, some members allegedly engaged in street violence. In the 1970s and 1980s, the movement supported many Democratic candidates who had little knowledge of the movement. None were elected.''
	::::::::::''In 1988, after LaRouche and some supporters were convicted on fund-raising fraud charges, which they asserted were politically related, the movement's influence declined. The movement regained some influence with the start of a LaRouche Youth Movement, and by opposition to the Bush-Cheney administration and the Obama health care reform plan.''
	:::::::::Leaving out jargon which not one person in a hundred can understand, and leaving the details to the body, where they belong. Fog index well under 14. Cheers. ] (]) 21:35, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
	:::::::::::I think the concepts expressed in the "jargon", like "Platonist" and "re-industrialization", are important. We're not here to write an article for children. Most of the technical terms have links where readers can learn more. I've posted the first three paragraphs from the original above. I can't say that Collect's draft is a good replacement.   <b>]  ]  </b> 21:50, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
	::::::::::::I demur. We are here to write something a college student could understand - requiring post-graduate degrees to read Misplaced Pages is inane. We are ''not'' writing Kabbalah. Leave the ''arcana'' to the body - '''let the lede speak clearly and succinctly as to what ensues'''. A fog index of 13 is ''not'' exactly talking down to anyone, ''nor'' is it dumbing down important stuff. It is making the encyclopedia do what it is supposed to do - '''make information readily and simply usable by readers'''. Cheers. ] (]) 22:42, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
	{{OD}} No one wants to make a hard-to-read article, but there is a trade-off if improving readability requires deleting significant content. Unfortunately, this draft is rather sloppy with facts too. It would be misleading to say ''the movement supported many Democratic candidates who had little knowledge of the movement,'' for example. Or ''The movement regained some influence with the start of a LaRouche Youth Movement,'' - I don't know of any source which says the movement has regained influence due to the LYM. While improving the lead is a good goal, let's make sure that it is actually improved and not made worse.   <b>]  ]  </b> 00:02, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
	:While improving on the lead, (which seems a minor issue) we should focus more on the rest of the text, which has more severe issues, as Collect pointed out. I do not necc. concur that "big words" are a problem: as a reader of LaRouche's writings, I often encounter so-called"big words" like "potential relative population density" which are nevertheless well-defined. Writing (and reading) about LaRouche may require also the use of "big words". ] (]) 00:29, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
	::I agree with you on that point. It's the big words which seem to cause the readability index to go up, but many of them are necessary to properly describe this movement.   <b>]  ]  </b> 00:45, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

	== ~~More~~ ~~mess to clean up~~ ==		== Far right? ==

			Although the article says this organization is far right the other substantive portions of the article seem to indicate that the group is left wing and supports parties generally seem as on the left E.g. Democrats in the United States. Should this be removed? ] (]) 03:28, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
	The "Harassment of politicians" section is a combination of non-notable trivia and activity that is being mis-categorized as "harassment." Running against a candidate, or campaigning against a candidate, even name calling, is not "harassment." The material on the Franklin child prostitution ring allegations (in the previous section) is being presented in a POV fashion, since many people shared the view that Wadman etc. were dangerous and that there was a coverup. What the SI activists did could be characterized as "whistle-blowing." Calling it "harassment" is taking sides in Misplaced Pages's voice. Much of what is called "harassment of journalists" is actually just "making allegations" (ironic, isn't it?) Also ironic is that the "public altercations" section is mostly about LaRouche activists ''being'' harassed and or assaulted. ] (]) 15:44, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
			:The categorization includes it under ]. ] (]) 18:13, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
	:::The Franklin case is when an entity of the LaRouche movement created a special group, lead by ], to pursue charges of child molestation against people who had been exonerated. It followed one man from job to job and from city to city, spreading allegations of perversion to his neighbors and employers. If someone did that to you I bet you'd feel harassed.   <b>]  ]  </b> 20:59, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

			== Europe section ==
	*The section title is: "Alleged violence and harassment" then there are numerous sub sections listed by topic. In my opinion the word harassment needs to be removed from the three subsections as it creates POV and undue weight by mentioning the word repeatedly and selectively. A more neutral approach would be to name each subsection by its topic, and leave out the biased adjectives. Currently the section and subsections are as follows:
	*Allegations of violence and harassment
	**1960s and Operation Mop-Up
	**The USLP vs. the FBI
	**Association with Mitch WerBell
	**Labor unions
	**1980 New Hampshire presidential primary
	**Leesburg, Virginia
	**Harassment of officials
	**Harassment of politicians
	**Harassment of journalists
	**Public altercations --<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS,sans -serif"> — ] • ] • </span> 16:28, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

			I'm copying the whole of the current Europe section here because I'm going to delete most of it from the article. My reasons for deletion are that it has a lot of unreferenced statements, relies excessively and (in parts) exclusively on primary sources, and because most of it does not contain anything controversial despite being in the Controversy section of the article. It's just like a list of "Look this European country also has a branch of the movement, and this European person said they like LaRouche". I won't delete the stuff that is actually about something controversial.
	:::The reason "harassment" is used and repeated it that it is used frequently in sources. Most of the sources are in ]. I count 112 appearances of "harass", "harassing", or "harassment".   <b>]  ]  </b> 20:59, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
			So here's the copied European section:

			<!--The first paragraph of this section jumps from BüSo to Patriot party and then back to BüSo again. Might make sense to change order-->The LaRouche Movement has a major center in Germany. The {{lang\|de\|]}} (BüSo) (Civil Rights Movement Solidarity) political party is headed by ], LaRouche's widow. It has nominated candidates for elective office and publishes the ''{{lang\|de\|Neue Solidarität}}'' newspaper.{{cn\|date=August 2024}} Zepp-LaRouche is also the head of the German-based ]. <!-- Die Europäische Arbeiterpartei --> In 1986, Zepp-LaRouche formed the "Patriots for Germany" party, and announced that it would run a full slate of 100 candidates. The party received 0.2 percent of the 4 million votes and "failed to elect any candidates to the parliament".<ref>{{cite news\|url=http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=1986_245831\|title=Narrow state election victory gives boost to Kohl coalition\|work=]\|date=June 16, 1986\|access-date=January 30, 2008\|archive-date=January 14, 2009\|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20090114071838/http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=1986_245831\|url-status=live}}</ref> In Germany, the leader of the Green Party, ], reported receiving harassing phone calls that she attributed to BüSo supporters. Her speeches were picketed and disrupted by LaRouche followers for years.<ref>{{cite news\|title=LaRouche Stirs in Germany \|author=James M. Markham \|work=The New York Times\|date=June 30, 1986}}</ref>], a student from the UK attending a conference organized by the Schiller Institute and LaRouche Youth Movement in 2003, died in Wiesbaden, Germany, after he ran down a busy road and was hit by several cars. The German police said it appeared to be suicide. A British court ruled that Duggan had died while "in a state of terror."<ref name=Witt>, By April Witt, ''The Washington Post'' Sunday, October 24, 2004; Page W12</ref> Duggan's mother believes he died in connection with an attempt to recruit him. The German public prosecution service said her son committed suicide.<ref name=Degen>Degen, Wolfgang, , ''Wiesbadener Kurier'', April 19, 2007 (German); .</ref> The High Court in London ordered a second inquest in May 2010, which was opened and adjourned.<ref> {{Webarchive\|url=https://web.archive.org/web/20100523045903/http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/8694448.stm \|date=May 23, 2010 }}, BBC News, May 20, 2010.</ref> In 2015, a British coroner rejected the suicide verdict and found that Duggan's body bore unexplained injuries which indicated an "altercation at some stage before his death."<ref> {{Webarchive\|url=https://web.archive.org/web/20170703071242/http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-32828147 \|date=July 3, 2017 }}, BBC News, 20 May 2015</ref>''Solidarité et progrès'' (Solidarity and Progress), headed by ], is the LaRouche party in France. The party was previously known as ''Parti ouvrier européen'' (European Workers' Party) and ''Fédération pour une nouvelle solidarité'' (Federation for a New Solidarity). Its newspaper is ''Nouvelle Solidarité''.<ref>{{cite web \|url=http://www.solidariteetprogres.org/ \|title=Solidarité &; Progrès – Actualit&eacute \|publisher=Solidariteetprogres.org \|access-date=2008-11-23 \|archive-date=May 11, 2011 \|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20110511224753/http://www.solidariteetprogres.org/ \|url-status=live }}</ref>{{primary source inline\|date=August 2024}} Cheminade ran for ] in ], ] and ], finishing last each time. The French LaRouche Youth Movement is headed by Élodie Viennot. Viennot supported the candidacy of Daniel Buchmann for the position of mayor of Berlin.{{cn\|date=August 2024}}]]]Sweden has an office of the Schiller Institute (Schillerinstitutet)<ref>{{cite web \|url=http://www.nysol.se/ \|title=LaRoucherörelsen i Sverige \|website=Nysol.se \|access-date=2008-11-23 \|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20090122022519/http://www.nysol.se/ \|archive-date=January 22, 2009 \|url-status=dead }}</ref>{{better source needed}} and the political party ] (EAP). The former leader of the EAP, ], started as a member of the ] (SSU), and was assigned to investigate the EAP and the ELC. After joining the EAP, he had his membership in SSU revoked. Following the ] on February 28, 1986, the Swedish branch of the EAP came under scrutiny as literature published by the party was found in the apartment of the initial suspect, ]. Soon after the assassination, ] television in the U.S. speculated{{cn\|date=August 2024}} that LaRouche was somehow responsible.<ref name=brainwash>{{Cite web\|url=https://larouchepub.com/exon/exon_toc.html\|title=Has Your Neighbor Been Brainwashed About Lyndon LaRouche?\|website=larouchepub.com\|access-date=September 7, 2020\|archive-date=September 16, 2020\|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20200916092832/https://larouchepub.com/exon/exon_toc.html\|url-status=live}}</ref>{{primary source inline\|date=August 2024}} Later, the suspect was released. No connection with LaRouche was shown.{{cn\|date=August 2024}}In Denmark, four candidates for parliament on the LaRouche platform (Tom Gillesberg, Feride Istogu Gillesberg and Hans Schultz)<ref>{{cite web \|url=http://www.schillerinstitut.dk/ \|title=Schiller Instituttet i Danmark \|publisher=Schillerinstitut.dk \|access-date=2008-11-23 \|archive-date=October 11, 2007 \|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20071011054136/http://schillerinstitut.dk/ \|url-status=live }}</ref>{{primary source inline\|date=August 2024}} received 197 votes in the ] (at least 32,000 votes are needed for a local mandate). The Danish LaRouche Movement (Schiller Instituttet)'s first newspaper distributed 50,000 copies around Copenhagen and ].<ref> {{Webarchive\|url=https://web.archive.org/web/20071109233029/http://www.sive.dk/kampagneaviser.htm \|date=November 9, 2007 }} Schiller Instituttes Venner webpage</ref>{{primary source inline\|date=August 2024}}The {{lang\|it\|Movimento Solidarietà{{snd}}Associazione di LaRouche in Italia}} (MSA) is an Italian political party headed by Paolo Raimondi that supports the LaRouche platform.{{cn\|date=August 2024}}Ortrun Cramer of the Schiller Institute became a delegate of the Austrian ] in the 1990s, but there is no sign of ongoing relationship.<ref>{{Cite web \|url=http://www.ispac-italy.org/ngoprof.php?Org_ID=105 \|title=Non-governmental, Individual Experts, Academic, Scientific, Research and Professional Organizations \|access-date=July 23, 2007 \|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20041214011804/http://www.ispac-italy.org/ngoprof.php?Org_ID=105 \|archive-date=December 14, 2004 \|url-status=dead }}</ref>{{better source needed}}<ref>{{cite web \|url=http://www.larouchepub.com/tv/tlc_programs_2000.html \|title=LaRouche Connection Master List 1995–present \|publisher=Larouchepub.com \|access-date=2008-10-23 \|archive-date=August 4, 2007 \|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20070804164245/http://www.larouchepub.com/tv/tlc_programs_2000.html \|url-status=live }}</ref>{{primary source inline\|date=August 2024}}Polish newspapers{{which\|date=August 2024}} have reported that ], leader of the populist ] party, was trained at the Schiller Institute and has received funding from LaRouche, though both Lepper and LaRouche deny the connection.<ref>{{cite web\|url=http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw2001-2/poland.htm \|title=Antisemitism and Racism \|publisher=Tau.ac.il \|access-date=2008-11-23 \|url-status=dead \|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20080404043228/http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw2001-2/poland.htm \|archive-date=April 4, 2008 }}</ref><ref>{{cite web \|url=http://www.larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2001/011228poland_lies.html \|title=LaRouche Committee Denounces Polish Press Lies \|publisher=Larouchepub.com \|access-date=2008-11-23 \|archive-date=December 14, 2004 \|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20041214131939/http://www.larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2001/011228poland_lies.html \|url-status=live }}</ref>], leader of the ], has stated multiple times that she supports LaRouche's ideals.{{cn\|date=August 2024}}In February 2008, the LaRouche movement in Europe began a campaign to prevent the ratification of the ], which, according to the U.S.-based LaRouche Political Action Committee, "empowers a supranational financial elite to take over the right of taxation and war making, and even restore the death penalty, abolished in most nations of Western Europe."<ref>{{cite web\|url=http://www.larouchepac.com/news/2008/02/19/italian-senator-exposes-secret-plan-fascism-europe.html \|title=Italian Senator Exposes Secret Plan for Fascism in Europe \| LaRouche Political Action Committee \|publisher=Larouchepac.com \|access-date=2008-11-23 \|url-status=dead \|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20081109211214/http://www.larouchepac.com/news/2008/02/19/italian-senator-exposes-secret-plan-fascism-europe.html \|archive-date=November 9, 2008}}</ref>{{primary source inline\|date=August 2024}} LaRouche press releases suggest that the treaty has an underlying fascist agenda, based on the "]" ideas of Sir ].<ref>{{cite web\|url=http://www.larouchepac.com/news/2008/02/19/lisbon-treaty-based-program-british-fascist-oswald-mosley.html \|title=Lisbon Treaty Based on Program of British Fascist Oswald Mosley \| LaRouche Political Action Committee \|publisher=Larouchepac.com \|access-date=2008-11-23 \|url-status=dead \|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20080908023438/http://www.larouchepac.com/news/2008/02/19/lisbon-treaty-based-program-british-fascist-oswald-mosley.html \|archive-date=September 8, 2008}}</ref>{{primary source inline\|date=August 2024}} ] (]) 21:25, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
	::::Will, i wonder: were the sources compiled in "Incidents" created in a way, that the word "LaRouche" shows up in connection with words like "harass", "attack" or "threaten" by entering those or similar word and "LaRouche" in Proquest or related search programs? Would someone who searches for "harass" + "attack" + "LaRouche" come up with results that match those compiled in "Incidents"? ] (]) 22:03, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
	::::::I'm not sure what point you're making. What's the problem?   <b>]  ]  </b> 22:21, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
	:::::::Was "harass" one of the search terms used to assemble that list of sources? ] (]) 22:26, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
	::::::::Many search terms were used, I'm sure. What's your point? What's the problem?   <b>]  ]  </b> 22:42, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
	:::::::::Arguably, it introduces an element of ].
	:::::::::I've thought for some time that part of the problem with this section is the way it is titled, given that some of the content is simply a perfectly legitimate overview of notable conflicts and controversies in the movement's history. --'''<font color="#0000FF">]</font><font color=" #FFBF00">]</font><font color="#0000FF">]</font>''' 00:45, 15 October 2011 (UTC)
	::::::::::Recall that my original impetus for this research was the insistence by a succession of HK socks that we have a (mostly unsourced) section on the humor of the LaRouche movement. When I tried to search for examples of this I found the opposite--refererences that said the movement was known for being humorless, and for harassing critics and perceived opponents. I did not set out looking for it, but once I stumbled upon it I found a substantial amount of information. NPOV#Weight says to devote space in an article proportional to the prominence of the issue or view in secondary sources. The only issue with greater prominence would probably be their views. Those are already covered in great detail in another article and mentioned briefly here per ].   <b>]  ]  </b> 17:25, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
	:::::::::::::Thank you Will for copypasting your story in here for a third time now. I think it is great and becomes with every post more and more believable. Cheers, ] (]) 22:41, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

			:Actually decided against deletion and instead moved everything non-controversial to the International section, and kept the controversial stuff in the Controversy section. The relevant edits: ] (]) 21:50, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
	==Headings==
	I attempted to change the titles as proposed by Keithbob and JN466, and was immediately reverted by Will Beback. Will, you don't own this article, and you have consistently ignored or defied proposals and suggestions of a majority of other editors. ] (]) 22:54, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
	:There was clear consensus in the thread above. Revert warring against consensus is disruptive.--<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS,sans -serif"> — ] • ] • </span> 22:58, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
	::I support Waalkes' changes to the section headings. That makes four editors for, one against. ] (]) 23:03, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
	::Make it five. "Harassment" indicates Misplaced Pages's voice backing the allegations as fact. Absent any convictions for the charge, it is contrary to ] to claim that any specific living people "harassed" other specific living people. ] (]) 23:49, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
	:::I think the titles chosen by Waalkes do not help the reader. For proper neutrality, I would suggest "alleged harassment" each time instead of just simply "harassment". ] (]) 00:11, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

			{{reflist-talk}}
	::::The headings should reflect the contents of the sections. I don't oppose change, but the changes should be improvements. NPOV is not a vote. As for the idea that Misplaced Pages can't mention alleged criminal activities, such as harassment, unless there is a criminal conviction, that's obviously incorrect. All sorts of activities are potentially criminal. BLP applies to identifiable individuals, not unidentified members of a movement.   <b>]  ]  </b> 00:17, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
	::::For example, how many of the alleged "]" have resulted in convictions?   <b>]  ]  </b> 00:29, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
	:::::If you can find mass killings under a LaRouche regime, I would ''certainly'' support an article on it. If not, then your analogy is pretty much useless. ] (]) 01:05, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
	::::::How so? Were the ''alleged'' mass killings ever proven in a court of law? As for this article, which "specific living people" are accused of harassment?   <b>]  ]  </b> 01:25, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
	:::::::No need to argue, and no need to personalize this discussion by bringing up other topics that editors here may edit. ] (]) 01:35, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
	::::::::We're discussing, not arguing. This issue is very similar to the "mass Killings" issue, so it's directly relevant. Misplaced Pages does not require a conviction in order to include reports of activities which may violate laws.   <b>]  ]  </b> 02:14, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
	:::::::::1. Monty Python. 2. Lewis Carroll. The "analogy" is sufficiently absurd as to find itself in both categories. Cheers. ] (]) 07:05, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
	::::::::::Colect, could you please stop trolling both here and elsewhere. It is a waste of everybody else's time. Thanks, ] (]) 14:40, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

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Mediation, arbitration, requests for clarification, and other discussions about the LaRouche movement, 2004-2008
Long term abuse subpage, LaRouche accounts
ArbCom clarification/enforcement, AN/I, 2005-8
Enforcement, Hershelkrustofsky socks, Sep 19, 2008 Enforcement, MaplePorter, Sep 19, 2007 Clarification, Nathan/DLTN, July 23, 2007 Enforcement, Herschelkrustofsky (HK) Clarification, Tsunami Butler", Apr 1, 2007 Clarification, Appeal, Jan 24, 2007 Clarification, ManEatingDonut, Nov 22, 2006 Clarification, LaRouche, Oct 23, 2006 HK probation, Apr 15, 2006 HK/BirdsOfFire, Mar 31, 2006 HK blocked, Sep 29, 2005
Arbitration 2006
HK banned, May 5, 2006.
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N_ and others, Nov 2005. Cognition's statement, Nov 22, 2005. Modification of LaRouche 2, Dec 23, 2005. HK indef probation, Dec 23, 2005 LaRouche 2, Jan 25, 2005–Feb 17, 2005. LaRouche 2 talk LaRouche 2 evidence LaRouche 2 proposed decision LaRouche 2 proposed decision talk
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LaRouche 1, July 4—Sep 13, 2004. LaRouche 1 talk LaRouche 1 evidence LaRouche 1 evidence talk LaRouche 1 proposed decision LaRouche 1 proposed decision talk
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Talk:Lyndon LaRouche Lyndon LaRouche 1, Jan 17–Jun 17, 2004 Lyndon LaRouche 2, Jun 20–22, 2004 Lyndon LaRouche 3, Jun 21–24, 2004 Lyndon LaRouche draft, June 24-25, 2004 Lyndon LaRouche 4, Jun 25–July 5, 2004 Lyndon LaRouche 5, Jul 05–Aug 1, 2004 Lyndon LaRouche/Jewish, June–Aug 2004 Lyndon LaRouche HK list, July–Aug 2004 Lyndon LaRouche HK list archive Lyndon LaRouche 6, Aug 6-9, 2004 Lyndon LaRouche 7, Aug 11-17, 2004 Lyndon LaRouche omissions, Sep 9-10, 2004 Lyndon LaRouche 8, Aug 18–Sep 28, 2004 Lyndon LaRouche 9, Sep 18–Oct 11, 2004 Lyndon LaRouche 10, Dec 2004–Jan 20, 2005 Lyndon LaRouche archive, material missing Lyndon LaRouche 11, Jan 20–Jul 19, 2005 Lyndon LaRouche 12, Jul 2005–Nov 12, 2006 Lyndon LaRouche 13, Nov 2006—Feb 18, 2007 Lyndon LaRouche 14, Feb 18, 2007 - August 1, 2007 Lyndon LaRouche 15, August 8, 2007 - November 18, 2007 Lyndon LaRouche 16, November 20, 2007 - Lyndon LaRouche 17 Lyndon LaRouche 18
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Who is Weld?

"According to courtroom testimony by FBI agent Richard Egan, Jeffrey and Michelle Steinberg, the heads of LaRouche's security unit, boasted of placing harassing phone calls all through the night to the general counsel of the Federal Elections Commission (FEC) when the FEC was investigating LaRouche's political contributions.

During the grand jury hearings followers picketed the courthouse, chanted "Weld is a fag", distributed leaflets accusing Weld of involvement in drug dealing, and "sang a jingle advocating that he be hanged in public"." This is the first and only mention of Weld in this article. Who is this?

William Weld 2605:A601:A0C0:AA00:7700:61AA:B056:8B0B (talk) 22:08, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

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Far right?

Although the article says this organization is far right the other substantive portions of the article seem to indicate that the group is left wing and supports parties generally seem as on the left E.g. Democrats in the United States. Should this be removed? 73.48.251.0 (talk) 03:28, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

The categorization includes it under Category:Syncretic political movements. Dimadick (talk) 18:13, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

Europe section

I'm copying the whole of the current Europe section here because I'm going to delete most of it from the article. My reasons for deletion are that it has a lot of unreferenced statements, relies excessively and (in parts) exclusively on primary sources, and because most of it does not contain anything controversial despite being in the Controversy section of the article. It's just like a list of "Look this European country also has a branch of the movement, and this European person said they like LaRouche". I won't delete the stuff that is actually about something controversial. So here's the copied European section:

The LaRouche Movement has a major center in Germany. The Bürgerrechtsbewegung Solidarität (BüSo) (Civil Rights Movement Solidarity) political party is headed by Helga Zepp-LaRouche, LaRouche's widow. It has nominated candidates for elective office and publishes the Neue Solidarität newspaper. Zepp-LaRouche is also the head of the German-based Schiller Institute. In 1986, Zepp-LaRouche formed the "Patriots for Germany" party, and announced that it would run a full slate of 100 candidates. The party received 0.2 percent of the 4 million votes and "failed to elect any candidates to the parliament". In Germany, the leader of the Green Party, Petra Kelly, reported receiving harassing phone calls that she attributed to BüSo supporters. Her speeches were picketed and disrupted by LaRouche followers for years.Jeremiah Duggan, a student from the UK attending a conference organized by the Schiller Institute and LaRouche Youth Movement in 2003, died in Wiesbaden, Germany, after he ran down a busy road and was hit by several cars. The German police said it appeared to be suicide. A British court ruled that Duggan had died while "in a state of terror." Duggan's mother believes he died in connection with an attempt to recruit him. The German public prosecution service said her son committed suicide. The High Court in London ordered a second inquest in May 2010, which was opened and adjourned. In 2015, a British coroner rejected the suicide verdict and found that Duggan's body bore unexplained injuries which indicated an "altercation at some stage before his death."Solidarité et progrès (Solidarity and Progress), headed by Jacques Cheminade, is the LaRouche party in France. The party was previously known as Parti ouvrier européen (European Workers' Party) and Fédération pour une nouvelle solidarité (Federation for a New Solidarity). Its newspaper is Nouvelle Solidarité. Cheminade ran for President of France in 1995, 2012 and 2017, finishing last each time. The French LaRouche Youth Movement is headed by Élodie Viennot. Viennot supported the candidacy of Daniel Buchmann for the position of mayor of Berlin.

Sweden has an office of the Schiller Institute (Schillerinstitutet) and the political party European Worker's Party (EAP). The former leader of the EAP, Ulf Sandmark, started as a member of the Swedish Social Democratic Youth League (SSU), and was assigned to investigate the EAP and the ELC. After joining the EAP, he had his membership in SSU revoked. Following the Olof Palme assassination on February 28, 1986, the Swedish branch of the EAP came under scrutiny as literature published by the party was found in the apartment of the initial suspect, Victor Gunnarsson. Soon after the assassination, NBC television in the U.S. speculated that LaRouche was somehow responsible. Later, the suspect was released. No connection with LaRouche was shown.In Denmark, four candidates for parliament on the LaRouche platform (Tom Gillesberg, Feride Istogu Gillesberg and Hans Schultz) received 197 votes in the 2007 election (at least 32,000 votes are needed for a local mandate). The Danish LaRouche Movement (Schiller Instituttet)'s first newspaper distributed 50,000 copies around Copenhagen and Aarhus.The Movimento Solidarietà – Associazione di LaRouche in Italia (MSA) is an Italian political party headed by Paolo Raimondi that supports the LaRouche platform.Ortrun Cramer of the Schiller Institute became a delegate of the Austrian International Progress Organization in the 1990s, but there is no sign of ongoing relationship.Polish newspapers have reported that Andrzej Lepper, leader of the populist Samoobrona party, was trained at the Schiller Institute and has received funding from LaRouche, though both Lepper and LaRouche deny the connection.Nataliya Vitrenko, leader of the Progressive Socialist Party of Ukraine, has stated multiple times that she supports LaRouche's ideals.In February 2008, the LaRouche movement in Europe began a campaign to prevent the ratification of the Treaty of Lisbon, which, according to the U.S.-based LaRouche Political Action Committee, "empowers a supranational financial elite to take over the right of taxation and war making, and even restore the death penalty, abolished in most nations of Western Europe." LaRouche press releases suggest that the treaty has an underlying fascist agenda, based on the "Europe a Nation" ideas of Sir Oswald Mosley. Nakonana (talk) 21:25, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Actually decided against deletion and instead moved everything non-controversial to the International section, and kept the controversial stuff in the Controversy section. The relevant edits: Nakonana (talk) 21:50, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

References

"Narrow state election victory gives boost to Kohl coalition". Houston Chronicle. June 16, 1986. Archived from the original on January 14, 2009. Retrieved January 30, 2008.
James M. Markham (June 30, 1986). "LaRouche Stirs in Germany". The New York Times.
"No Joke", By April Witt, The Washington Post Sunday, October 24, 2004; Page W12
Degen, Wolfgang, "Nur die Legende hat ein langes Leben", Wiesbadener Kurier, April 19, 2007 (German); Google translation.
"Fresh inquest into student death" Archived May 23, 2010, at the Wayback Machine, BBC News, May 20, 2010.
Student Jeremiah Duggan's death not suicide, coroner rules Archived July 3, 2017, at the Wayback Machine, BBC News, 20 May 2015
"Solidarité &; Progrès – Actualit&eacute". Solidariteetprogres.org. Archived from the original on May 11, 2011. Retrieved 2008-11-23.
"LaRoucherörelsen i Sverige". Nysol.se. Archived from the original on January 22, 2009. Retrieved 2008-11-23.
"Has Your Neighbor Been Brainwashed About Lyndon LaRouche?". larouchepub.com. Archived from the original on September 16, 2020. Retrieved September 7, 2020.
"Schiller Instituttet i Danmark". Schillerinstitut.dk. Archived from the original on October 11, 2007. Retrieved 2008-11-23.
Schiller Instituttet Kampagnaviser Archived November 9, 2007, at the Wayback Machine Schiller Instituttes Venner webpage
"Non-governmental, Individual Experts, Academic, Scientific, Research and Professional Organizations". Archived from the original on December 14, 2004. Retrieved July 23, 2007.
"LaRouche Connection Master List 1995–present". Larouchepub.com. Archived from the original on August 4, 2007. Retrieved 2008-10-23.
"Antisemitism and Racism". Tau.ac.il. Archived from the original on April 4, 2008. Retrieved 2008-11-23.
"LaRouche Committee Denounces Polish Press Lies". Larouchepub.com. Archived from the original on December 14, 2004. Retrieved 2008-11-23.
"Italian Senator Exposes Secret Plan for Fascism in Europe | LaRouche Political Action Committee". Larouchepac.com. Archived from the original on November 9, 2008. Retrieved 2008-11-23.
"Lisbon Treaty Based on Program of British Fascist Oswald Mosley | LaRouche Political Action Committee". Larouchepac.com. Archived from the original on September 8, 2008. Retrieved 2008-11-23.

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