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== PCPP == ==Ethiopian Epic==
{{hat|Topic banned from ] --] <sup>]</sup> 19:53, 1 January 2025 (UTC)}}
{{hat|{{User|PCPP}} is admonished for editing in areas of his topic ban, further violations will result in a long-term block, no further action at this time. --] (]) 05:11, 24 January 2012 (UTC)}}
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.'' <small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


===Request concerning PCPP=== ===Request concerning Ethiopian Epic===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : ] (]) 22:26, 9 January 2012 (UTC) ; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Tinynanorobots}} 11:23, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Ethiopian Epic}}<p>{{ds/log|Ethiopian Epic}}</p>


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|PCPP}}
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> <!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->
*]
*]



; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : ; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. --> <!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
# created during the Yasuke case and went active when it ended. First 11 edits were to Government of Japan. In one case three edits were used to write one sentence.
# Recommenced editing article laced with references to Falun Gong (Clarification: the article is laced with them, not his edits)
# Ditto talk page # Manually reverted the lead back to how it was in September.
# Launched ] discussion seeking to submit the disputes about that page to dispute resolution # Falsely Claimed cited material was OR. (G
# Falsely Claimed cited material was unsourced
# It took an ANI report to get him to use the article talk page. His defense was accusations and denial.
# He reverted to a version that went against consensus established on the talk page and contained a falsely sourced quote.
# Engages in sealioning
# Removes a well sourced line from Yasuke as well as reverted an edit that was the result of BRD. He has now started disputes with me on all three Yasuke related articles.
# starts disputing a new section of
# Brought again to ANI, he claims that I didn't get consensus for changes, even though I had discussed them on talk prior to making them.
# He keeps mentioning ONUS, and asking me to discuss it, in response to me discussing.
# Used a non-controversial revert to hide his edit warring.
# did the same thing on List of foreign-born samurai in Japan.
# He also repeatedly complains that he doesn't like the definition because it is vague and claims that his preferred version is "status quo"


; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) :
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->
<!-- Many arbitration remedies require a prior warning before sanctions may be imposed. Link to the warning here. -->
# Explanation
Took these actions immediately upon returning from 24-hour block from AE ] for editing the referenced article.
# Explanation


;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):[
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. -->
I am not involved in the editing of the article, but am a mediator/clerk at DRN. Last block was for making edits specifically referencing Falun Gong, but topic ban is from editing any article or discussion ''related to'' Falun Gong, as this article and the DRN discussion about this article obviously are. I closed his DRN request for being in violation of his topic ban, but will reopen it if it is decided that no violation is involved with his pursuit of that article and DR about that article.
*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on (see the system log linked to above).


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :


; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
<!-- Add any further comment here -->
I have decided that Misplaced Pages is not worth my time. I want to write about history, not get caught up in wikipolitics and intrigue. There are systematic problems with wikipedia, where it is difficult to come to a conclusion to a discussion and openness is discouraged. Seeking help or advice with an issue opens one to the accusation of forum shopping or canavassing. One is expected to be perfect, but it is unclear what perfect is. Admins complain that a recall petition that lasts more than seven days is cruel, but drag out ArbCom processes and ignore AE threads for days. This whole process has been miserable. ] (]) 16:35, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :


<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> <!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


===Discussion concerning PCPP=== ===Discussion concerning Ethiopian Epic===
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>


====Statement by PCPP==== ====Statement by Ethiopian Epic====
This is clear retaliatory filing because I recently didn't agree with Tinynanorobot's , and because I made talk page sections on some recent edits.
In addressing Mr Stradivarius's and the admins' points, I composed the talk page comments before the 24 hour block was imposed as a right of reply to Homunculus's analysis of my edits. As now that I realize the full extent of the topic ban to even passing mentions, I have no further intention of editing or discussing that particular paragraph, essentially dropping my objections to anything relating to the banned topic. I opened the case at DRN because I have no intention of further escalating the disputes, but address my issues with the involved users with a third party, and hopefully solve them. In light of this, I have stroke through the points 11 and 12, and have no intention of editing the article throughout the process.--] (]) 08:31, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
:In reply to T. Canens, I wrote the rebuttal points a few hours the talk page discussion appeared, but I found out that I was given a block as I was about to save the page. I copy+pasted it after the first block elapsed.
::In response to EdJohnston, I opened the AE case because I felt that the Homunculus has behaved unfairly towards myself in the discussion process, and wish to address such concerns at DRN and hopefully settle them, as I do not wish a repeat of the previous edit wars which resulted in my sanctions. I only edited that article once since my block, and the article's issues, in regards to WP:CRIT, has been noted by several other users in the talk page, as well as Mr Stradivarius from DRN. The two passages I removed frankly fails WP:RS and WP:CRIT, since the former does not implicate CI at all, while the latter one consists of anecdotes from a Chinese language blog - the individual was not implicated in anything. Criticism articles, I believe, should provide a neutral and balanced approach to its subject of criticism.--] (]) 06:30, 17 January 2012 (UTC)


@] That's not true and you are a very obvious alt account with only 26 edits. No one gave you a notification of this discussion and it's not on the Yasuke talk page. This suggests you are the sock puppet of someone here. Your post is also misleading and incorrect it wasn't an insertion. The line you are talking about in Samurai has been there for over 10 years and is normal. I know because I've read it before. Here is a version from 2017 . I don't understand why you are misrepresenting edits and using an alt account.
====Comments by others about the request concerning PCPP====
=====Comment by Shrigley=====
Falun Gong features in the Confucius Institutes article primarily as a member of lists of proscribed political movements in China, of which there are many. As a result, there is some competition among fringe movements in China about which among them deserve mention on our articles. If the promotion comes not by aggressive SPAs, then they come from drive-by anonymous editors, .


@] I think he is just fishing. That's why he removed his IP claims. Even his other diffs are just mislabeled regular behavior. It's amusing because Eronymous is the likely alt of Tinynanorobots or someone posting here. I think the way Tinynanorobots edits against clear consensus, skips discussion, and then files frivolous ANI/AE reports with misleading narrative like above is disruptive. Discussion is an easy solution and benefits everyone. I hope he will respect RFC consensus.
My point is, Falun Gong is grafted onto the page in the same way that the ] might be grafted onto any United States government article. There is no organic connection between the Confucius Institutes and Falun Gong. As the filer himself notes, PCPP did not touch any content which mentioned Falun Gong in the article.


{{ping|Barkeep49}} Tinynanorobot's recent "do-over" comment above is likely an attempt by him to hide the negative admin response to his own conduct and his fishing here. He shouldn't be able to remove the admin response to his report, so that he can do more fishing, before the admins even make their decision. It seems like gaming AE. He also recently disrupted the samurai talk page by hiding the comments of other users with a misleading edit summary.
The talk page issue is a bit more delicate. A group of users rolled back all of PCPP's past edits on the article, including one which mentioned Falun Gong that got him topic banned, based on bad-faith presumptions. I imagine PCPP felt he had to explain himself amidst accusations that his absence on the talk page was "disruptive" and "uncommunicative". He should be commended for making no direct mention towards Falun Gong in his reply.


@] I wasn't sure if it was drive-by vandalism by ] (I don't have deep context but he is mentioned by name) so I made sure to respect 1RR. I made a talk section I'll let other editors handle it. ] (]) 22:29, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
The DRN was on track to resolving PCPP's interpersonal issues; content was not discussed, let alone the small minority of untouched Falun Gong-related content. ] (]) 00:41, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
===== Comment by Ohconfucius =====
AFAICT, this complaint is obsolete as PCPP was for so doing already. The objection to him opening a case at WP:DR also seems ''prima facie'' unreasonable because it is every editor's right (especially when he is met with such hostility when making good faith edits), for he seems sincere in his efforts to find an amicable solution to impasse he faces there. I daresay that if PCPP had not made the mistake of mentioning Falun Gong in that DR request &ndash; which Transporter Man closed as being in violation of ] &ndash; PCPP would have avoided this AE request, but may well have been accused all the same of ] notwithstanding because on of the edits in question involved removing mention of Falun Gong. In any event, I have advised him not to touch any mention of FLG or ''Epoch Times'', even though we know ET isn't accepted as a ] except in matters pertaining directly to the movement.


====Statement by Relm====
PCPP's editing style and his efforts at finding such a solution are a marked departure from past confrontational behaviour. In addition, it would be wholly inappropriate to sanction him again bearing in mind he has not edited said articles again since his block. Per Shrigley, the offences mentioned above are technical in nature. Because editors seem to feel the need to leave traces of Falun Gong persecution everywhere, many are mere ], that it is well nigh impossible for any editor on Chinese politics not to come up against these. --<small>] ]</small> 01:32, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
I am largely unfamiliar with the account in question, but I do frequently check ]. I believe that EthiopianEpic has displayed a clear slant and battleground mindset in their editing in regards to the topic of Yasuke, but that their conduct on the Yasuke page itself so far has generally been in the ballpark of good faith edits. The revert on December 9th was justified, and their topic on November 29th is well within bounds (though I acknowledge that the background of their prior disputes on other pages with Tinynanorobots shows it may be edit warring) given that the two things being reverted was a change that seemed to skirt the prior RFC with agreement being given in a very non-direct way, and the other portion being an addition which had not been discussed on the talk page prior to its implementation (though previous discussions ered on the side of not including it). I am ''not'' accusing Tinynanorobots of any misconduct in any part of that either.


What I will note is that in addition to the sockpuppet IP allegations made by Tinynanorobots, I wanted to lodge that the posting style of EthiopianEpic, as well as their knowledge of much of the previous discussions on the page deep in the archive, led me to suspect that they were an alt of ]. I never found anything conclusive. ] (]) 14:48, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
===== Comment by Homunculus =====
A point of clarification: the editor filing the AE noted that PCPP's edits at ] did not directly relate to Falun Gong. Unfortunately this was not the case. PCPP deleted a whole paragraph of notable, sourced content related to Falun Gong, and severely redacted another. Both were germane to the topic. As has been pointed out, PCPP was already subject to a 24-hour ban for these deletions. I do not know whether or not he violated his ban again by pursuing the issue further on the dispute resolution noticeboard—that's a question for the admins. ] (]) 03:00, 10 January 2012 (UTC)


===== Comment by Mr. Stradivarius ===== ====Statement by Simonm223====
These two editors have been tangling at WP:AN/I repeatedly. Last time they came there I said that this would likely continue until a third party intervened. And then the thread got archived with no action () so I'm not surprised that the two of them are still tangling. There is evidence that both editors have engaged in a slow-motion edit war.
Hi all, I was aware of this dispute from the ] and had a brief look at the article and the talk page, but I didn't actually comment at the noticeboard. Regarding TransporterMan's diffs: I'm not sure about the first one, but the does seem to be, in part, carrying on the conversation about PCPP's edits to the section mentioning Falun Gong. In particular, points 11 and 12 from that edit seem to be referring to diffs 11 and 12 from by ], of which seems to be one of the diffs for which PCPP received his recent 24h block. I also wanted to say that, while PCPP's topic ban is potentially problematic if he chooses to further edit ], when I looked at the article I saw systemic problems relating to ], which I believe PCPP was trying to correct. Because of this, I think this dispute could respond well to dispute resolution, although, as always, this would depend on all parties maintaining good conduct and a commitment to collaboration. — <b style="text-shadow:0.15em 0.15em 0.1em #555; color: #194D00; font-style: oblique; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">] <sup>]</sup></b> 15:38, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
Both have claimed the other is editing against consensus. Here I will say that it appears TinyNanoRobots is more correct than Ethiopian Epic. Furthermore, while neither editors' comportment has been stellar, as other editors have pointed out, it appears more that EE is following TNR about and giving them a hard time than the alternate. . In the linked AN/I case (above) you'll note EE attempted a boomerang on TNR and was not well-received for the effort.


Frankly my view is that both editors are not editing to the best standards of Misplaced Pages but there is definitely a ''more'' disruptive member of this duo and that is Ethiopian Epic. I think it would probably cut down on the noise considerably if they were encouraged to find somewhere to edit which was not a CTOP subject and if they were encouraged to leave TNR alone. ] (]) 18:05, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
===Result concerning PCPP===
<!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.-->
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''
*] is neither directly connected to Falun Gong nor inextricably intertwined with that topic. Unless the particular edits are related to FLG - and I'm not seeing it, there is no violation here. ] (]) 02:00, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
:*Mr. Stradivarius makes a good point regarding the second diff. I'd like to hear a response from PCPP about that diff before taking action, though. As to Homunculus' comment, those diffs have been dealt with already in the previous thread. ] (]) 14:54, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
::*I don't quite understand your comment, PCPP. Are you saying that you composed the post before the block but didn't get to post it until after it? ] (]) 06:00, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
:::*OK. PCPP's explanation is that he composed the comment pre-block, got stopped in the middle of posting it by the block, and then posted it after the block by copy-paste. Considering that most parts of the comment is compliant with the topic ban, and the only violating part did not refer to FLG by name, it is quite plausible that he simply overlooked the infringing part's relationship to FLG (I know that I did when I first looked at it). PCPP also states that he now recognizes the full scope of the topic ban. Under these particular circumstances, I don't think a block is necessary at this time. I would close this thread with a warning that the next topic ban violation will indeed result in a long block. ] (]) 12:27, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
*Agree with Mr. Stradivarius' point. The current view of topic bans allows editors to work on sensitive articles so long as they don't change anything regarding the topic area from which they are banned. PCPP appears to be failing to stay within the prescribed bounds, since it is clear that he edited Falun-Gong-related material on January 6. He was already blocked for that, but now he is raising a complaint at ] that seems to show no awareness whatever that he is banned from some of the topics he is raising. Inevitably any discussion of his DRN complaint is going to be a discussion of Falun-Gong-related material since numbers 11 and 12 of his diff concern that material. In closing the January 6 AE with a 24-hour block, NuclearWarfare stated "Hopefully this will make him reconsider, because the next one is going to be a lot longer/indefinite otherwise." PCPP seems to be totally oblivious to the problem. The time may have come for a longer block. ] (]) 04:29, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
::After more review, I'm now recommending that PCPP's ban be extended to include the topic of the Chinese government and any of its institutions.


====Statement by Eronymous====
::In a new comment, PCPP has clarified the sequence of events and he should no longer be considered oblivious of the Falun Gong problem. I've checked through some of PCPP's edits since January 1, and looked into the overall drift of , the one that was the occasion for TransporterMan to file this AE request. PCPP's edits at ] did not appear neutral to me. For example he removed reliably-sourced mentions of misbehavior of two directors of particular Confucius Insitutes. His edit summary for this was "Individuals not representative of the institution." In an article on 'Concerns and Controversies', he wants to remove specific reports of controversies at Univ. of South Florida and Univ. of Waterloo on the grounds that these are problems with *individuals*?
Similar to Relm I check on the ] page every so often, and it seems very likely given the evidence that ] is an alt of ] created to evade his recent ArbCom sanctions, having started editing the day prior to the case closure. Of note to this is the of Symphony_Regalia on ] was him attempting to insert the line "who served as retainers to lords (including '']'')" - curiously enough, Ethiopian Epic's on ] (and , having just prior made 11 minor ones in a short timeframe to reach autoconfirmed status) is him attempting to insert the same controversial line that was reverted before.


Symphony_Regalia has a history of utilising socks to edit Yasuke/Samurai related topics and is indefinitely blocked from the .jp wiki for (plus multiple suspected IPs) for this.
::This is only one of a series of edits that were commented on by Homunculus at ]. I share many of the concerns expressed by Homunculus in that thread. As he says "An editor has recently made a series of fairly substantial edits to the page, but has neglected to provide any explanation of said edits.". In a later response on the same talk page, PCPP states "I believe both Homunculus and The Sound and the Fury acted in bad faith towards me in this discussion"..."And to Homunculus, I don't need self appointed minders you hounding me over every one of my edits in China related articles.."


Prior to being sanctioned Symphony Regalia frequently got into exactly the same arguments concerning wording/source material with ] that Ethiopian Epic is now. One could assume based on their relationship that he is aggrieved that Tinynanorobots was not sanctioned by ArbCom during the case and is now continuously feuding with him to change that through edit warring and multiple administrator incidents/arbitration requests in the past few weeks. ] (]) 22:31, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
::So here's the sequence of events:
::#PCPP makes a series of 23 edits to ] that revise it substantially, but says nothing on talk.
::#Homunculus , lists some objections he has to specific edits, and asks PCPP to respond.
::#PCPP comes back , and only then provides any explanation of his article changes.
::#Without waiting for any answer from Homunculus, PCPP opens .


====Statement by Nil Einne====
::It is within the scope of AE to widen PCPP's topic ban if he shows himself unable to edit neutrally in matters concerning the Chinese government, even beyond the Falun Gong question. PCPP's topic ban from Falun Gong was indefinite and it is open for review any time after May 9. I recommend that the ban be *widened* to include the topic of the Chinese government and any of its institutions, such as the Confucius Institute. ] (]) 02:41, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
:::*I'm not convinced that we can stretch the discretionary sanctions that far. First, I'm not sure that "Chinese government" is a ''closely related topic'' to "Falun Gong", at least in the way that phrase has been interpreted by this board in previous cases. Further, even assuming that this is an available sanction, I don't think we can employ the FLG discretionary sanctions on edits wholly unrelated to FLG. ] (]) 20:03, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
*PCPP is effectively under an indef TBAN, just blocked on 6 Jan for violating the TBAN and then two days later launches right back in to it again. Seems like there is little else to do but a longer block, I'd suggest 30 days with a note the indef is next. --] (]) 18:25, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
{{hab}}


I was ?one of the editors who suggested Tinynanorobots consider ARE in the future. I did this mostly because after three threads on ANI with no result, I felt a change of venue might be more productive especially since the more structured nature of ARE, as well as a likely greater concern over low level of misconduct meant that some outcome was more likely. (For clarity, when I suggested this I did feel nothing would happen from the third ANI thread but in any case my advice being taken onboard would likely mean the third thread had no result.) I did try to make clear that I wasn't saying there was definitely a problem requiring sanction and also it was possible Tinynanorobots might themselves end up sanctioned. Since a topic ban on both is being considered, I might have been right in a way. If a topic ban results, I'd like to suggest admins considered some guidance beyond broadly constructed on how any topic ban would apply. While the entirety of the Yasuke article and the list of foreign born samurai stuff seem clear enough, one concern I've had at ANI is how to handle the editing at ] and its talk page. A lot of the recent stuff involving these editors seems to relate to the definition of samurai. AFAIK, this is generally been a big part of the dispute of Yasuke (he can/can't be a samurai because it means A which was/wasn't true about him). ] (]) 12:42, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
== Jiujitsuguy ==
{{hat|{{User|Jiujitsuguy}} is indefinitely ] from P-I articles, broadly construed. --] (]) 05:38, 23 January 2012 (UTC)}}
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.''


===Request concerning Jiujitsuguy=== ===Result concerning Ethiopian Epic===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : ] (]) 22:59, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*I've never been very impressed with retaliatory filings, and the one below is no exception. I will also note that I'm never too impressed with "must be a sock" type accusations&mdash;either file at SPI or don't. In this case, though, I think ] would be better off if neither of these two were participating there. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 19:33, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
*:{{u|Red-tailed hawk}}, what are your thoughts after the responses to you? ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 16:18, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
*::I think that it would be declined if it were an ] report and the editor should be mindful not to throw sock accusations around willy-nilly going forward. But I typically don't see any sort of sanction imposed when someone makes a bad SPI report, particularly if they're newer or aren't quite ] yet. So I don't see much to do on that front other than tell them that we need more specific evidence of socking when reports are made than merely shared interest, particularly when the IPs are scattered across the world. — ]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub> 02:24, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
*:::I'm still inclined to topic ban both these editors from ], but would be interested in hearing more thoughts on that if anyone has them. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 07:10, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
*I also generally don't like "might-be-a-sock"-style accusations; when we are accusing someone of ] we typically need evidence to substantiate it rather than just floating the possibility in a flimsy way. Filer has provided as possible socks, but each of those IPs geolocates to a different country (Germany, Norway, and Argentina respectively) and I don't see evidence that any of those IPs are proxies.{{pb}}{{yo|Tinynanorobots}} Can you explain what led you to note the IP edits? Is it merely shared interest and viewpoint, or is there something more?{{pb}}— ]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub> 02:01, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
* Looking at this .... mess... first, I'm not sure what actually was against the ArbCom decision - I don't see a 1RR violation being alleged, and the rest really appears to me to be "throw stuff at the wall and see if it sticks". But, like Seraphimblade, I'm not impressed with either of these editors actual conduct here or in general. I could be brought around to supporting a topic ban for both of these editors in the interests of clearing up the whole topic area. ] (]) 14:33, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
** {{yo|Ealdgyth}} I'm concerned that EthiopianEpic is gaming 1RR/slow edit-warring – for the past few days, they've been waiting until just over 24 hours have passed since their last revert on ] in order to make another one that restores their preferred POV, citing the same old arguments. See reverts on December ], ], and ]. ] (] • she/her) 17:21, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
**:I agree that's gaming 1RR. I'm tempted to block as an individual action at this point, separate from the AE complaint. @], please before editing again explain why you are continuing to edit war ''while'' there's an AE case open? ] (]) 17:50, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
**:: I'm good with a topic ban from the subject area for EE - for the gaming when their conduct is being scrutinized for edit warring. I'll reply below about Tiny ... (sorry for the delay, hubby is home so I have spouse-aggro (in gaming terms)) ] (]) 16:19, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
* {{re|Tinynanorobots}} you are well above the 500 word limit. Please request an extension before adding anything more. ] (]) 16:18, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
* I enacted the rough consensus to topic ban --] <sup>]</sup> 19:53, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
{{hab}}


==Tinynanorobots==
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Jiujitsuguy}}
{{hat|Topic banned from ] --] <sup>]</sup> 19:53, 1 January 2025 (UTC)}}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>
===Request concerning Tinynanorobots===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : ] (]) 19:14, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Tinynanorobots}}<p>{{ds/log|Tinynanorobots}}</p>
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;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] ;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> <!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->

; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : ; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
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# Re-adds the "Archaeology museums in Israel" cat to the ] article after it was removed with an edit summary of "Not in Israel". JJG provides no real explanation as to why he re-added false information.
# Adds "{{Flagicon|Nazi Germany}} ]" as a belligerent on the versus Israel side in the info box on the ] article.
# Revert and re-adds the same info without bothering to start a discussion on the talk page.
# Revert and edit-wars the material in a third time, but decides to finally bring something up about it on the talkpage.
::JJG cites Israeli historian, Benny Morris, who writes, "Several dozen Britons, most of them former British army or police officers (by mid-March 1948 some 230 British soldiers and thirty policemen had deserted), also served in the Palestinian Arab ranks, as did some volunteers from Yogoslavia and Germany. The Yugoslavs, possibly in their dozens, were both Christians, formerly members or the pro-Axis Fascist groups, and Bosnian Muslims; the handfuls of Germans were former Nazi intelligence, Wehrmacht, and SS officers."


#. Tinynanorobots removes {{tq|As a samurai}} from the lead text and replaces it with {{tq|signifying bushi status}} against ] ({{tq|There exists a consensus to refer to Yasuke as a samurai without qualification}}).
::The Benny Morris source also states that the Jewish Yeshuv side was supported by at least 100 Americans. The only thing JJG focuses on are the “handful of Germans”. When you compare the amounts (a handful of German ex-Nazis to 100 Americans and dozens of British) you would think, in the interest of neutrality, that JJG would have added the American flag to the Jewish Yeshuv side to represent the 100 Americans or added the British flag to the Arab side to represent the "several dozen" British soldiers. But of course JJG's purpose on Misplaced Pages would explain why he did not decide to do that. Throwing in a reactionary and emotional symbol like a Swastika, which immediately becomes associated with the Arab armies, is a very clever way to push a POV by playing on the emotions of someone who is reading the article. Considering that he was previously topic-banned for "persistent ideological POV-pushing across many articles", one would think he would try to steer clear from these kinds of edits. All of this goes without mentioning the slow-paced edit-warring that was involved, namely two reverts within 72 hours.
#. Tinynanorobots removes {{tq|who served as a samurai}} from the lead text and adds {{tq|who became a bushi or samurai}} against ] ({{tq|There exists a consensus against presenting Yasuke's samurai status as the object of debate}}).

#. On List of Foreign-born Samurai, Tinynanorobots removes the longstanding definition and adds {{tq|This list includes persons who ... may not have been considered a samurai}} against ] ({{tq|There exists a consensus against presenting Yasuke's samurai status as the object of debate}}).
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) :
#. Tinynanorobots reverts to remove {{tq|As a samurai}} in the Yasuke article after Gitz6666 opposes at , again ignoring ].
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#. I restore and start a so that consensus can be formed.
#Topic-banned on by {{user|Sandstein}} for "persistent ideological POV-pushing across many articles"
#. Tinynanorobots, when consensus fails to form for his position, becomes uncivil and engages in a sarcastic personal attack {{tq|What you are saying doesn't make sense. Perhaps there is a language issue here. Maybe your native language handles the future differently than English?}}
#. Tinynanorobots removes "As a samurai" again, ignoring ] and BRD even though no consensus has formed for his position, and no consensus has formed to change existing consensus.
#. Tinynanorobots explains their reasons, {{tq|I don't know if samurai is the right term}} which is against consensus.
#. POV-pushing - With no edit summary Tinynanorobots tag bombs by adding {{tq|Slavery in Japan}}.
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :


# Explanation
# Explanation
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Jiujitsuguy is probably one of the most POV-warrior minded editors who I have come across. Recently, he escaped sanction for misrepresenting sources to push a POV. In fact, it appears as if the only reason he was not sanctioned, was do to lack consensus among admins, as one admin in particular objected and viewed the issue as a "content dispute" rather than a conduct one. The issue with this admin was later clarified by ArbCom, to the understanding that such an issue is one of conduct.


Tinynanorobots frequently edits against consensus, restores his edits when others revert, doesn't wait for consensus, and engages in feuding behavior. He seems to think ] or ] don't apply to him which is disruptive, and I don't know why.
You would think someone so close to facing a lengthy topic-ban, and who was recently topic-banned for manipulating sources to push a POV, would be more conscious to avoid the type of POV pushing that he has engaged by the evidence of above. But it is very clear now that Jiujitsuguy just intends to use Misplaced Pages as another tool of his to push one of the most minority-POVs that exist in any major political subject in the world.
:@ElComandanteChe- It is not a content dispute. There were more British and American forces who took sides during the war than there were Ex Nazi (this according to the source JJG provided). JJG cherry-picked the the belligerents and only added the Nazis and their flag to the Arab side. The first edit is shows the pattern of what behavior that JJG continues to display, and has displayed since he last topic ban expired two months ago for source distortion and POV pushing. -] (]) 00:16, 14 January 2012 (UTC)


- Warning from other editor about repeated removal of content when multiple users are objecting.
:@WGFinley- The issue is not JJG having a reliable source or not, the issue how he used it. If you want to AGF, that's your prerogative, but I know that an editor who has a history source abuse will only have done what they did with the belligerent section because they were, once again, abusing the sources. By all the evidence and the quotes that JJG has brought to the admins attention, there is no doubt that he is well read. So then the question becomes -- '''why did he only put the flag of the Nazis to represent a handful of Nazis and not put the flag of the British or Americans to represent an equal or greater amount of troops?''' The only "good faith" answer available is that a known source abuser somehow, miraculously, did not read the part about the Americans of British. But I don't think that is what JJG is even claiming. He even said to ] a few months back that he " that misrepresenting a source is a serious offense that undermines the integrity of the entire project." If those are the kinds of standards of AGF to be upheld, say bye-bye to any reliability and objectivity to anything in the I-P area.


- Warning from yet another editor about not assuming good faith and making personal attacks.
:Of course, there is the tendentious part and the gaming of the 1RR. He made two reverts in three days and on the second revert opened a discussion. It was not just an ordinary revert -- but a revert of highly controversial, cherry-picked material. And it wasn't just one revert of controversial material, but two reverts (mere hours apart) adding back the same controversial material. JJG exhibited the same sort of behavior at the ] article. Not only does he highly controversial material into the article without consensus, he has the audacity to add it to the lead! If that wasn't enough already, he without a even bothering to open up a discussion. I sure wish a ban from adding flags in a belligerent box on a single article would fix this kind of repeated POV pushing behavior. -] (]) 20:14, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
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It seems to be chronic which suggests behavior problems. Tinynanorobots frequently fails to assume good faith in others. I don't know why as I don't have any issues with him.
===Discussion concerning Jiujitsuguy===
Their preferred edit for Yasuke against the RFC consensus is lead section.


@] Sorry for the confusion. I think we talking about different edits, so I'll adjust that part. I am referring to Tinynanorobot's repeated removal of {{tq|As a samurai}} against RFC consensus, which states {{tq|There exists a consensus to refer to Yasuke as a samurai without qualification}}.
====Statement by Jiujitsuguy====
*According to ], under "Makeup of Arab forces," he states that "volunteers came from among Yugoslavian Muslims, deserters from the British Army and ex-Nazis." (History of the Israeli Army, Page 29)
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :


*According to Leslie Stein, “Some 500 Yugoslavs plus a number of Germans” fought on the Palestinian behalf. (The Making of Modern Israel, 1948-1967, Pages 44, 45)
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===Discussion concerning Tinynanorobots===
*Benny Morris notes on page 85 that the Arab ranks included "some volunteers from Yugoslavia and Germany." The Yugoslavs were drawn from both pro-Axis fascist groups and Bosnian Muslims. The Germans were composed of Nazi intelligence, Wehrmacht and SS officers. (1948, Page 85)
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
====Statement by Tinynanorobots====
The accusations made by EE are so misleading as to be evidence against him. Most of what he is discussing is in reference to a successful BRD. I actually discussed the bold edit first on the talk, but didn't get much of a response. I decided a bold edit would get more feedback. The edits were reverted and then discussed. Gitz's main problem was OR, not a RfC violation. This was because he didn't read the cited source. {{tq|Anyway, since Atkin says "signifying bushi status", I have no objection to restoring this text.}}


I never used any sarcasm, I know that some languages handle how they talk about time differently. It seems reasonable that a translation error could be the reason for EE asking me not to change the article, althoug my edit had already been restored by someone else and at the same time asking me to discuss that I had already discussed and was already discussing. I am disappointed that EE didn't point out that he felt attacked, so that I could apologize.
*With respect to Morris, '''I utilized that source to specify the composition of ex-Nazis and units they were drawn from and not the quantity'''. Asad has misleadingly drawn your attention to the wrong page. I used page 85 and my edit (which identifies the makeup of involved German units) precisely corresponds to that page. I also utilized ] as a source as well and I can scan and email you the page if you don’t have access to the book. Asad, in mendacious fashion leaves out the fact that I used Schiff as a source. I could have also used Stein but believed that Morris and Schiff were sufficient.


This was written in response to another user, and the whole thought is {{tq|I don't know if samurai is the right term. It is the term a fair amount of sources use, and the one that the RfC says should be used. It is also consistent with common usage in reference to other historical figures.}} In fact earlier in that post I said this: {{tq|I am not qualified to say whither or not Yasuke having a house meant that he was a samurai}} This is blatantly taking a quote out of context in order to prejudice the Admins against me.
*The edits were well-sourced, accurate and explained on the discussion page as well as the pages of an involved editor In addition, rather than reinserting the edit I offered to compromise and this suggestion was met with a positive response and agreement I was glad to see that we were making progress on the issue and indicated this on respective talk and discussion pages and where I noted the following The statement represents a clear indication by me to work collaboratively on the issue.


:@] I filed here, because the last time I filed at ANI it was suggested that I bring things here if things continue by an Admin. I try to follow advice, although I keep getting conflicting signals from Admins. I am most concerned that you find my work on ] and ] not adding anything helpful. My suggestion to rewrite the way samurai was defined on the List in order to reduce OR and bring it in line with WP:LSC was meant with unanimous approval by those who responded. Samurai is a high importance article that has tags on it from years back, is unorganized and contains outdated information. I am not the best writer, but I have gotten some books, and am pretty much the only one working on it.
*Asad deliberately misstates the record and omits critical portions from his narrative. In an attempt to formulate a compromise, I specifically offered to remove the flag as well as other modifications. Please note my compromise offer; The response I received was a positive one and one which looked as though the issue was about to be resolved; My response to that was, This exchange represents the best of collaborative editing and is removed from Asad's convoluted narrative. In fact, Asad didn’t even participate in the discussion. It seems as though his sole role was to wait on the sidelines for the opportunity to strike. Sigh


::I just thought that the Admins here should know about the ongoing SPI
*In sum the edits were well-sourced from reliable verifiable sources, the edits were discussed (in fact, I was first to open a discussion on the matter), A compromise was within reach, there was no violation of 1r, and I offered to work collaboratively as evidenced by the diffs. Moreover, if any admin wishes to have a scanned copy of the sources, I would me more than happy to comply--] (]) 23:40, 14 January 2012 (UTC)


@theleekycauldron Thank you for giving a reason, I think there is a misunderstanding though.
***I absolutely noted Yugoslavs and the noted sources don't mention American participation under disposition of Arab forces. Foreign volunteers for the Israeli side have already been noted under ]. I don't understand. I did everything by the letter and spirit of the book. I made edits that were reliable and verifiable. I did not violate 1r. I was the first to open a discussion at not just the discussion page but at the talk pages of involved editors. As noted above, I indicated a strong willingness to collaborate and compromise and was making headway in that regard and now somehow, this becomes a referendum on me? I've done a helluva lot of good for the space improving the Yom Kippur war article, the War of Attrition, creating a half-dozen articles on military battles. I have provided you with the sources. I scanned and emailed them to you and you can share with any admin you'd like. I'm going well above and beyond what is required and acted in strict accordance (by letter and spirit) with the rules. What more do you want? What annoys me the most is that Asad brought this AE after I left the following comment on the discussion page; It appears that he brought this AE simply to preempt the possibility that the article would include compromise language that he would object to.--] (]) 00:42, 15 January 2012 (UTC)


:On Nov 14th I removed {{tq|as a samurai}} and ''added'' {{tq|signifying bushi status}} which better matched the sources. Also, not every samurai received a house or sword. Especially receieving a house is an important indicator of Yasuke's rank.
*****Per the discussion on your talk page, I'll stay low for a few weeks.--] (]) 02:05, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
:On Nov 15th it was removed by Blockhaj On the same day Gitz posted on the talk {{tq|However, I agree with this revert of Tinynanorobots's edit: sources say that the gift signifies samurai status (e.g., Lockley: "bestowing of warrior or “samurai” rank"); "bushi status" is an original research.}}
:On Nov 16th it was restored by Gitz
:On Nov 17th I explained that "bushi status was in the source, and therefore not OR. Gitz agreed writing {{tq|Anyway, since Atkin says "signifying bushi status", I have no objection to restoring this text, although I suggest that "indicating warrior status" or "marking membership in the warrior class" would be easier to understand.}}
:On Nov 20th I changed it to "signifying samurai status"
:On Nov 29th EE reverted with the edit summary {{tq|Corrections and fixes}}
:On Nov 30th I revert EE with the edit summary {{tq|Reverts aren't explained and includes cited material and material that was discussed on the talk page. Please discuss on Talk page}} On the same day EE did a partial revert citing ONUS
:On Dec 1st ] reverted EE saying {{tq|when ee somehow avoided a well-earned block last time, it was *extremely*, *incredibly* obvious that sooner or later, they'd edit up attacking this exact article in this exact way, i.e., contentiously reverting an editor they're following around and badgering that editor to discuss while not doing so themself. they're really not getting the point}}
:On Dec 2nd EE started a new discussion on the topic EE begins by saying {{1. was done without consensus. It looks like it was reverted by @] , but it was silently restored without any discussion.}} but also says {{tq|can you follow ] and seek consensus for these edits before re-adding them? Thank you.}} The second part is confusing, because at the time this was written, both of those edits were current. He was asking me not to re-add something that was re added by someone else and not yet removed. He has given the section the same title as the section where Gitz and I had our discussion. On the same day, I replied linking to my discussion with Gitz, pointing out that he had withdrawn his objection. EE responded saying {{tq|I see thank you, however I checked the archives and the previous discussions says ""There exists a consensus to refer to Yasuke as a samurai without qualification"", and ""There exists a consensus against presenting Yasuke's samurai status as the object of debate"". So I think using "signifying samurai status" or "indicating status status" would be less in line with that consensus compared to the status quo text of "as a samurai". In light of that I would suggest getting consensus before adding this change.}} This confused me. He redirects my mention of my discussion with Gitz, into a discussion of the RfC, which he pretends he just discovered in the archive, and asks me again not to add something which is currently in the article to the article without discussing it, after I told him I did discuss it, and am trying to discuss it with him.


:This is when I wrote {{tq|I am troubled that you keep implying that I haven't discussed these things on the talk before. I also believe you do not understand how consensus works. When someone makes a change, that is the consensus until someone challenges it. You are wanting to change the status quo.}} In this case I am using status quo to mean "the existing state of affairs" It was the current state of the article. It seemed that EE was both chatising me for making a change without discussion (the past) and asking me not to make that change (the future), but overlooking that I didn't need to make the change, and that I was trying to discuss with him(the present). It was all very confusing.
**Looking at the matter in hindsight, I believe that the addition of the flag icon without a contemporaneous comment at the discussion page was wrong. I tried to rectify the problem by attempting to formulate modified text that would exclude the flag icon as well as other modifications. Regardless, I thought that since other scholarly texts (Schiff, Herzog, Stein and Morris) included the facts that I noted, it would be prudent to do so here. This is especially so since the Israeli belligerent column includes foreign volunteers. In any event, I recognize that the manner in which I added the info was incorrect and offer apologies for the stir.--] (]) 03:07, 16 January 2012 (UTC)


:On Dec 9th a few users made some edits that really went against consensus. EE reverted these edits, but also removed the edits that City of Silver had restored.
***Ex-Nazis is precisely the term that ] uses and I will email the source to you if you provide me with an email address. It is not tendentious if that's the term the source employs. If you don't want to provide me with your email, then have HJMitchell forward it to you because I already gave it to him. I also added Yugoslavs. Some 500, composed of Bosnian Muslims and former pro-Axis militia, volunteered. Is that tendentious as well? I employed precisely the terms used by the source.--] (]) 21:18, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
***]: "Other Volunteers came from among Yugoslavian Moslems, deserters from the British Army and '''ex-Nazis'''."
***Leslie Stein: "The Jews were not alone in mobilizing foreign volunteers. Some five-hundred Yugoslavs plus a number of Germans, Poles and over 50 Britons fought on the Palestinian behalf."
***] also notes that the Arab side employed Germans, Yugoslavs, British deserters and Poles to drive vehicles loaded with bombs into Jewish populated areas. (page 25)
***Morris notes on page 85 that the Germans were drawn from ex-intel, Wehrmacht and SS officers and the Yugoslavs were drawn from Bosnian Muslim ranks and former pro-Axis militia. I used Morris only to note the composition of Germans and Yugoslavs.
***Schiff was used to note that volunteers came from the ranks of ex-Nazis and Yugoslavs. Morris was used to note their specific composition, and sub-types. I noted Stein and Herzog at the discussion page. If other notable scholarly texts include these facts, should this content not be added to Misplaced Pages?--] (]) 03:44, 17 January 2012 (UTC)


:After that I never restored "signifying samurai status". Unless I missed something, I only restored it once.
{{outdent}}As I noted, use of the icon without contemporaneous comment of the matter on the discussion page was not the correct way to go about things. The information was accurate, though admittedly I could have gone about it differently and I noted this on the discussion page even before the instant action was initiated. In fact, I was in the midst of a discussion on the matter and was making progress and I was going to offer revised text, absent the icon as evidenced by the above-noted diffs.--] (]) 03:51, 17 January 2012 (UTC)


:The full line is {{tq|He was granted a sword, a house and a stipend, indicating samurai status}} and I don't see how it can be against the RfC, the RfC says explicitly {{tq|There exists no consensus on the inclusion of the following sentence, or similar, in the lead section of the article. "Historians believe this was the equivalent to "the bestowing of warrior or 'samurai' rank" during this period."}} The quote is from one of the sources, and my version should be less controversial considering the objections to including the quote. The quote is not only in the body, but also in a footnote in the lead.
====Comments by others about the request concerning Jiujitsuguy====


:EE is the only person who beleives that it goes against the RfC, except for an IP It has been added by other users, and others have explictly said it doesn't go against RfC on both ] and here.
=====Comment by ElComandanteChe=====
] (]) 15:07, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
I don't actually see any sense in this complaint. It's quite clear that Asad dislikes JJG, and that JJG has certain political views, but none of these is sanctionable. The first diff is month old. The rest is a content dispute, discussed right now on the relevant talk page. May be there are signs of slow edit-warring here, but JJG is the one who started ] on the talk page, and simultaneously worked in a collaborative manner to build a consensus version (] and ]), while his opponents just kept pushing the revert button. The presented evidence is too weak to draw the sound analysis next to it. --<span style="font:8pt verdana; background-color:whitesmoke; border:1px solid gray">&nbsp;]<sup style="font-size:7pt">]</sup></span> 00:05, 14 January 2012 (UTC)


=====Comment by ZScarpia===== ====Statement by Relm====
I am the editor alluded to and quoted as 'protesting' Tinynanorobots edit. When I originally made that topic, I was fixing a different edit which left the first sentence as a grammatically incomplete sentence. When I looked at it in the editing view, one of the quotes in the citation beforehand was quoting Atkins Vera, and I mistook this for the opening quote having been changed. When I closed the editing menu I saw 'signifying samurai status' in the second paragraph and confused the two for each other as I had not noticed the addition of the latter phrase a little under a month ago. I realized my mistake almost immediately after I posted the new topic, and made this () edit to clarify my mistake while also attempting to instead direct the topic towards making sure that the edit recieved sufficient assent from Gitz (it did) and to talk about improvements that could be made to the opening sentence. I further clarified and made clear that I was not accusing Tinynanorobots of having done anything wrong in a later response ().
I'd say that the List of Belligerents quite clearly got out of hand. What readers would expect to see is a list of the major participants, which on the Arab side should probably be a list of Arab states (I doubt that Pakistan should be listed as a belligerent) and perhaps the Arab Liberation Army. I doubt that political parties should be listed as belligerents, or the 'foreign volunteers' listed on the Israeli side, who didn't serve in their own separate units. Better judgement would have precluded translating a reference to handfuls of Yugoslavs and Germans fighting on the Arab side into extending the belligerent list, particularly into making the leap of labelling Morris's ex-members of Nazi intelligence (presumably the Gestapo), the Wehrmacht and the SS as Nazis, when that isn't what Morris says, and of including the flag of Nazi Germany. <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 01:59, 14 January 2012 (UTC)


Though many of their earlier edits on the page may show some issues, as they grew more familiar with the past discussions I believe that Tinynanorobots has made valuable contributions to the page in good faith. ] (]) 03:21, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
I missed the facts that Jiujitsuguy gave Schiff, who explicitly uses the term ex-Nazis, as a reference in addition to Morris and that, in a passage other than the one quoted, Morris does himself use that term, so I was incorrect to state that Jiujitsuguy misrepresented Morris. My apologies to everyone. <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 13:57, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
:No problem Z and thank you for your honesty. Apology whole-heartedly accepted without reservation.--] (]) 14:03, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
::Thanks. <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 14:59, 15 January 2012 (UTC)


====Statement by Barkeep49====
@No More Mr Nice Guy, 07:40, 21 January 2012: Ohiostandard isn't questioning whether sources are reliable, but whether they're being used in a non-neutral way. <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 13:18, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
*:@] I think this misinterprets the ArbCom decision. So Yakuse is a contentious topic ''and'' it has a 1RR restriction, in the same way as say PIA. As in PIA administrators can sanction behavior that violates the ] besides 1RR. Beyond that, editing ] is a finding of fact from the case. ] (]) 16:25, 17 December 2024 (UTC)


=====Comment by The Devil's Advocate=====
Honestly, I had been thinking about bringing this to AE myself. One other article where JJG has recently been creating problems is the ] article. Diffs of his edits there:
*
*
*
The wording about "if anyone was seeking the ethnic cleansing of Palestine, it was the Arabs" was inserted into the ''lede'' of the article. His changes in the third diff with regards to scholarship are clearly tendentious, and his choice of sources leaves a lot to be desired. JJG's edits there seem to be trying to lay accusations of ethnic cleansing entirely on Pappe and by inserting material from numerous negative sources about Pappe, at times even presenting their remarks in the editorial voice as though they are facts, he is seeking to discredit the accusations themselves. JJG is cherry-picking sources and using them to push an extremely hostile POV, something he has done before. Back two months or so ] for using travel guides to claim the Golan Heights were Israeli territory. This kind of behavior goes well beyond your typical content dispute.--] (]) 07:31, 14 January 2012 (UTC)


====Statement by Gitz6666 ====
@Netzer On the 1948 war article it was only after a second revert that JJG started a discussion on the talk page, making sure to revert my revert before he did. He has exhibited the same behavior on the Nakba article where he made sure to revert the revert before going to the talk page to explain why his blatant POV-pushing was in perfect conformity with policy, avoiding NPOV and focusing on WP:V naturally. That goes back to the Golan case where he engaged in the same kind of wikilawyering to avoid the fact that he was cherry-picking and misrepresenting sources in order to push his own agenda on the article. You may find that harsh, but I am just ].--] (]) 18:52, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
I don't see anything wrong either with Tinynanorobots's recent edits to Yasuke and related articles or those of Ethiopian Epic. The only troubling aspect is their difficulty in finding an agreement on relatively irrelevant issues or minutiae such as "As a samurai" vs "Signifying samurai status", which are not covered by the RfC consensus and are also difficult to understand. They shouldn't bring this stuff to AE and they'd better come to an agreement otherwise they risk being tbanned, which in my opinion would be a pity. Disengage disengage disengage, and move to more productive editing! ] (]) (]) 22:39, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
:Actually, looking at the Nakba article, JJG didn't even initiate discussion on his changes there. Roland initiated discussion after JJG objected to a different edit having been removed months before.--] (]) 19:02, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
::I have also opened a ] regarding the reliability of the obscure source which Jjg has used as backing for his edits.Comments welcomed. <span style="font-family: Papyrus">] (])</span> 19:30, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
@Shuki How about ], ], ], ], and ]?--] (]) 23:09, 14 January 2012 (UTC)


@Netzer Just so we are clear, I waited three days (longer than I had to wait) after his first revert for anyone to start discussion or revert him before finally performing the second revert. In contrast, JJG's revert of my second revert came within ten minutes and only then did he start a section on the talk page. When he did that, I was getting ready to put up a much larger comment on the talk page on general issues I saw with the article of which I felt JJG's edit was simply a symptom. That I wanted to start a broader discussion about the article is why I didn't start up a discussion the first time he reverted my revert.--] (]) 05:47, 17 January 2012 (UTC)


@WG Seriously, look at the diffs I provided in my comment above. This is not about flags or what's in the belligerents section. You are certainly familiar enough with the ''last'' report involving JJG to know that this is the case. You are using the designed-to-fail restriction imposed on Nableezy as a precedent for a restriction that a child would have little trouble obeying, while still allowing JJG to continue other disruptive behaviors.--] (]) 19:58, 17 January 2012 (UTC)


=====Comment by MichaelNetzer===== ====Statement by (username)====
There is no pre-requisite in WP policy to open a talk page discussion before an edit. It is only "required" when the edit is contested, which is what JJG did, in all the cases mentioned in this complaint. It's becoming increasingly difficult to work in this area as some editors are pulling no punches in turning Misplaced Pages into a one-sided referendum on the topic, and removing any edits that try to bring POV balance to the articles. This contrived complaint is another such example. --] (]) 16:56, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->


===Result concerning Tinynanorobots===
:@The Blade of the Northern Lights: "Ending up here" is no indication of being guilty as charged. --] (]) 01:02, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''


* As above, I'm failing to see what exactly is against the ArbCom case rulings - I don't see a 1RR violation. But also as above, I'm coming to the view that neither of these editors are adding anything helpful to the topic area and am leaning towards a topic ban for both. ] (]) 14:35, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
::@HJ Mitchell: This complaint is about the charges it makes, not a referendum on how the encyclopedia "benefits" from an editor. --] (]) 01:02, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
*:I tend to agree. The edits EE highlights are troubling, especially TNR's view that they can repeatedly make edits an RfC has already ruled out (], ], ]) because {{tq|When someone makes a change, that is the consensus until someone challenges it. You are wanting to change the status quo.}} ] (] • she/her) 00:20, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
*::That's been my position, and I've thus far seen no reason to change it. I would support topic banning both EE and Tinynanorobots from the Yasuke subject. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 00:32, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
*::: I concur. Topic banning both would hopefully help them learn to collaborate by editing somewhere where they are not so invested so that they can learn how to collaborately edit. ] (]) 16:21, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
*Unless an uninvolved admin objects within the next seven days or so, I will close as above (TBAN on Tinynanorobots and EthiopianEpic from Yasuke). ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 20:05, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
* I enacted the rough consensus --] <sup>]</sup> 19:53, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*<!--
-->
{{hab}}


==Rasteem==
:::Your time on Misplaced Pages might be better spent advancing arguments for how these charges are invalid, or reading the policies you claim have not been violated, rather than taking potshots at comments by administrators who work hard to ensure that the right result comes out of these complaints. Have a little faith in us. ] &#124; ] 01:26, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
{{hat|There does not seem to be an appetite to act here. Any admin can chat with Rasteem about any competence concerns in their personal capacity --] <sup>]</sup> 20:00, 1 January 2025 (UTC) }}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


===Request concerning Rasteem===
::::I have complete faith in admins here, HJ, and I try not to take potshots. From what I'm seeing, AE is being abused by editors who are more than happy to see a one-sided tone overpower articles in this space. They resist well sourced edits that seek balance with persistent contrived arguments that make collaboration very difficult. The talk page discussions in this case alone show this. It's natural for admins to have a difficult time seeing through it the way editors who suffer from it do. I think that's one of the reasons editors involved in this area are welcome to comment here. In light of the facts presented by JJG, should not Shuki's comment about this misleading complaint be taken into consideration? --] (]) 03:58, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|NXcrypto}} 03:06, 13 December 2024 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Rasteem}}<p>{{ds/log|Rasteem}}</p>
=====Comment by Shuki=====
This is a simple content dispute and one of the most frivolous AE's opened on ARBPIA since '''no guideline''' has been violated and the nominator has not even stated which guideline of ARBPIA has been violated. Editors, like Asad, (especially experienced ones who have already commented on AE before) who open misleading AE's should instead be sanctioned themselves. The Blade of the Northern Lights, welcome to ARBPIA, or other admin, can you please take the initiative and add ] to ]. Asad has already proven he knows about the page, so this is a mere formality. Thanks. --] (]) 20:38, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
:What disturbs me most about the admin's waving their swords below is A) ignoring WP:BOLD, and B) a clear attempt at preventing updating of WP based on what they think is right (a content issue). Adding the word 'Nazis' to the article is clearly sourced and valid (part of history, duh), and if having the Nazi flag is a bit provocative JJG already apologized, and giving JJG a topic ban because he added the flag is quite disproportionate. Me thinks with Nableezy sidelined, (often protected here) the admins see an opportunity to 'even up' the field. FWIW, with several regular I-P editors already banned or coming off bans over the past year, things have already calmed down dramatically. --] (]) 22:32, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
:: I guess that OhioStandard did prove that this is a content issue after all. --] (]) 22:32, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
=====Comment by BorisG=====
Not sure what policy has been violated here. I do agree that Nazi flag is way OTT. I welcome JJG's self cooling proposition. I also agree with Z that the list got out of hand. At the same time, am I the only one who is sick and tired of tit for tat AE requests? This one in particular look rather meritless, and warrants ]. - ] (]) 14:12, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
:See my response to Shuki.--] (]) 22:40, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
::TDA, could you please comment in your own section? - ] (]) 02:04, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
::The Ohio Standard has just revealed himself as an ardent propagandist for one side. I would have hoped that admins would give less weight to partisan and one sided comments from strongly partisan editors. I also think his unsourced characterisation of ] as ultra-extremist is a BLP violation and should be striken out. - ] (]) 02:15, 22 January 2012 (UTC)


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
=====Comment by One Night In Hackney=====
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->
MichaelNetzer's comment of "There is no pre-requisite in WP policy to open a talk page discussion before an edit. It is only "required" when the edit is contested, which is what JJG did, in all the cases mentioned in this complaint", Jiujitsuguy did in fact revert twice before opening a talk page discussion. Just thought I'd correct this misleading summary of events.


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
The first revert at . Second revert at . Opens talk page discussion at .
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
# - removed wikilink of an Indian railway station thus violating his topic ban from India and Pakistan.


This violation comes after he was already warned for his first violation of the topic ban.
So far from discussing the edit when it was first reverted, he reverted twice to add back the information and only started a discussion after making his second revert. <font face="Celtic">]<sub>'']''</sub></font> 10:25, 16 January 2012 (UTC)


Upon a closer look into his recent contribution, I found that he is simply ] the system by creating articles like ] which is overall only 5,400 bytes but he made nearly 50 edits here. This is clearly being done by Rasteem for passing the 500 edits mark to get his topic ban overturned.
::JJG's edit was reverted <u>twice</u> by the <u>same editor</u> without that editor opening the talk page discussion. JJG opened the discussion <u>10 minutes</u> after his second revert. Sorry if I was misleading but it seems JJG was alright on that issue in light of the circumstance. --] (]) 22:26, 16 January 2012 (UTC)


I recommend increasing the topic ban to indefinite duration. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 03:06, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
=====Comment by Zero0000=====


; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : "topic banned from the subject of India and Pakistan, broadly construed, until both six months have elapsed and they have made 500 edits after being notified of this sanction."
Addition of the Nazi flag to the belligerent list was a very obvious and blatant example of POV-pushing, not justified by any policy. It isn't justified by sources either, since the sources only indicate the past background of these (very few) people and do not indicate that they were representing any government, party, or other entity that the Nazi flag is a reasonable logo for. A vastly better case could be made for adding a communist flag to the Israeli column, but of course that would be the opposite POV-pushing. Israel officially recognises 42 nationalities of foreigners who fought on their side. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 01:00, 18 January 2012 (UTC)


;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
=====Comment by Malik Shabazz=====
Maybe it's just me, but the more people come here to say that adding a swastika to an article was "just a content dispute", the less I believe them. —&nbsp;]&nbsp;<sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub> 02:20, 23 January 2012 (UTC)


; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
==== Comment by Ohiostandard ====
<!-- Add any further comment here -->


*I agree that there are genuine CIR issues with Rasteem, for example while this ARE report is in progress they created ], which has promotional statements like: "The lake's stunning caluts, majestic desert topographies, and serene lakes produce a shifting destination. Its unique charm attracts a wide range of guests, from adventure contenders to nature suckers and beyond". ] <small><small>]</small></small> 03:26, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
<small>'''''( Please note later timestamp of this "eleventh-hour" addition as compared to timestamps of previously-posted admin comments. Thanks. - Ohiostandard )'''''</small>
*{{ping|Theleekycauldron}} I hope you will review the complaint again. As Femke and Cullen328 puts, the issue is not only with the topic ban violations (for which he was already warned by Seraphimblade) but also the basic competence issues that include his grasp of English language. Rasteem's own response to this complaint that "{{tq| a coordinated attack to abandon me from Misplaced Pages indefinitely}}" itself showcases his ]. I believe that the existing six-month topic ban should be increased to an indefinite period. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 03:37, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :


<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request (you may use {{subst:AE-notice|thread name}}), and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->
Jiujitsuguy's application of the Nazi flag to our article was of course ridiculous and blatant. But to evaluate his other edits responsibly, one has to understand some details of the history and politics of the Middle East. Unfortunately these details are often difficult to follow for people who aren't already familiar with the region's complex history and the sources that write about it. So to try to address that dilemma <u>I suggest we carefully examine just two of his other edits</u>, both quite typical, and see what they tell us about his overall editing pattern:
<br/>
{{collapse top|title= <small>Analysis posted in collapsed form, since it's necessarily longer than is usual here. - Ohiostandard </small>}}


<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
It may help orient the reader if I say here that Jiujitsuguy's two edits appear to be motivated by his vehement objection to the phrase "ethnic cleansing" to characterize the effect of Israel's actions in ] during which more than 700,000 Palestinians lost their homes and land.


===Discussion concerning Rasteem===
Since one admin has mentioned below that he's not familiar with JJG's participation history, I believe it's also a fair and appropriate orientation note to disclose that he edits from the perspective of a radical ]: When he was brought here a month or two ago, for example, he had used ''Popular Mechanics'' magazine as an authority on geopolitics to try to make Misplaced Pages's voice champion his ultra-extremist view that ] during the 1948 war, and still continues to occupy, is actually in Israel, is actually "an integral part of Israel", as he puts it.
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>


====Statement by Rasteem====
This is a position that couldn't be more emphatically rejected by the entire international community; it's so extreme that even the Israeli government itself does not assert it. Finally, I doubt he'll deny that he's previously written on very prominent Zionist political sites to recruit fellow extremists to begin editing Misplaced Pages in accordance with Israel's nationally-mandated ] ("propaganda" or "explanation") effort.
This approach seems to be a coordinated attack to abandon me from Misplaced Pages indefinitely. Indeed, after my ban for 6 months. I was banned on 6 December, and in just 7 days, this report is literally an attempt to make me leave Misplaced Pages.


1. I rolled back my own edit; it was last time made unintentionally. I was about to revert it, but my internet connection was lost, so when I logged in again, I regressed it.
<big>'''1st of two consecutive edits'''</big>


The internet is constantly slow and sometimes goes down. I live in a hilly location and I had formerly mentioned it.


My edits on Arjan Lake isn't any ] factual number of edits I made; it is 45, not 50. Indeed, I made similar edits before in September and December months on the same articles within a single day or 2-3 days.
<div style="background-color: #EEFFE6; border: 0px solid LightSlateGray; padding: 5px;">
Here Jiujitsuguy deleted the following sentence and <u>completely removed its two supporting refs</u> from our article:


2. ] on this article, I've added 5680 bytes & made 43 edits.
''The expulsion of the Palestinians has since been widely described as having involved ethnic cleansing''<ref>Ian Black, . ( '']'', 26 November 2010 ).</ref>, ''although not all historians accept that characterization.''<ref>]'s book, ''Palestine Betrayed''. ( Scoop News, 29 August 2010)]</ref>


3. ] on this article I've added 4000 bytes & made 49 edits.
{{reflist|local=yes}}
</div>


====Statement by (username)====
To justify the deletion, he wrote in his edit summary,
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->


===Result concerning Rasteem===
''"Exceptional claim of 'widely described' requires exceptional source. Not book review critic. Moreover, source is already twice noted & included in lead & that's overkill."''
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
* While I don't see a change in editing pattern that indicates gaming, the edits to ] indicate issues with competence, as the article is weirdly promotional and contains phrases such as "beast species", "emotional 263 proved species". ] (]) 20:57, 13 December 2024 (UTC) <!--
-->
*Adding to {{u|Femke}}'s point, {{tpq|magnific 70- cadence-high waterfalls in this area}} is not prose that inspires confidence in the editor's competence to edit the English Misplaced Pages. So, we have violations of a topic ban and questions about the editor's linguistic competence and performance. Perhaps an indefinite block appealable in six months with a recommendation to build English competency by editing the Simple English Misplaced Pages, and to build general Misplaced Pages skills by editing in the version of Misplaced Pages in the language they speak best during that minimum six month period. As for ], although the prose is poor, the references in the article make it clear to me that the topic is notable, so the editor deserves some credit for starting this article that did not exist for two decades plus. ] (]) 08:57, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
*Brief comment to avoid the archive bot. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 17:46, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
*I don't see any appetite to do anything about the CTOP violations here. Someone should probably write up an individual admin's warning about the two articles and the prose/sourcing problems, but I don't see anything here AE can action. ] (] • she/her) 22:42, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
*:{{yo|NXcrypto}} Yeah, I read your statement. They were doing gnome edits and they made one to a dab page, removing a redlink to a place that happened to be in India and related in no other way to the conduct that got them sanctioned. I'm not obligated as an administrator to ]. I '''oppose''' lengthening the topic ban. Both Cullen and Femke expressed competence concerns that I share, but those are outside the scope of AE as they don't involve any contentious topics or other ArbCom rulings. If one of them indeffed, I wouldn't object, but maybe someone wants to try explaining to them how their articles could be better first before we hit the indef button? ] (] • she/her) 05:36, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
{{hab}}


==KronosAlight==
There are so many things wrong with this edit that it's hard to know what to focus on:
{{hat|KronosAlight is ] from the ], broadly construed. ] (]) 17:56, 1 January 2025 (UTC)}}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


===Request concerning KronosAlight===
* Most innocuously, his deletion of the "IANBLACK" named ref created a cite error in the article's footnotes.
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Butterscotch Beluga}} 03:16, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
* His edit summary statement "source is already twice noted" is misleading. If you look at the article in its then-current state, you'll find that Black's piece in Great Britain's prestigious ''Guardian'' newspaper is referenced ''one'' other time, exactly, and then only in an indirect way.
* The claim that he's responding to "overkill", to over-reliance on the Ian Black ref he deleted, just isn't credible when one considers that the article had 43 cites to works by journalist and Black co-author Benny Morris, and that in his next edit, JJG added a 44th ref to Morris.
* The statement saying the depopulation had been "widely described" as ethnic cleansing does ''not'' come from a "book review critic". If he'd examined the refs he deleted before doing so, he'd have seen that the phrase "widely described" is sourced not to the book review, but to Ian Black's statement that <small>''(emphasis added)''</small>
* ] is, indeed, an "exceptional source" for this purpose. He's the ''Guardian'' newspaper's Middle East Editor, he's of an international journalism award, and he's often interviewed as a mideast expert by other news organizations. Just yesterday, for example, the ] broadcast an interview with him that I heard via (US) National Public Radio about his in-country experiences in Syria regarding the populist uprising there.


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|KronosAlight}}<p>{{ds/log|KronosAlight}}</p>
<big>'''2nd of two consecutive edits'''</big>


<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
Here Jiujitsuguy replaces the content he just deleted with an attack on author Ilan Pappe's book, ''The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine'', that attack coming via an Israeli political advocacy website from a man the ] rightly calls "", Benny Morris.
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
What's really strange about is not that he relied exclusively on partisan Zionist authors to try to make his point. But what ''is'' odd is that he cites Benny Morris in an attempt to discredit the characterization of the expulsion of the Palestinians in 1948 as ethnic cleansing. Morris is completely comfortable with that term; he even champions the phrase and the principle it describes, and someone who's as intimately familiar with mideast politics and sources as Jiujitsuguy is surely knows this.
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
#
:*Adds "depiste being an ex-Muslim" to dismiss accusations of Islamophobia ].
:*Adds ] around ‘promoted Islamophobia’ & ‘Islamophobia’ while removing the supporting context.
:*Changed "interpreted that statement as a threat and incitement to violence" to "claimed was a threat and incitement to violence, though no threats or violence in fact occurred" ] & ]
# - ]
:*Changes "Israeli settlers" to "Israeli soldiers" despite
# - ]
# - ]
:* Unnecessarily specific additions that may constitute ] such as adding "against civilians" & changing "prevent the assassinations of many Israelis" to "prevent the assassinations of many Israeli civilians and soldiers"
# - ]


; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
<div style="background-color: #EEFFE6; border: 0px solid LightSlateGray; padding: 5px;">
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->
For example, consider these exchanges, excerpted from which first appeared in the Israeli newspaper ''], and which is cited via the ''Logos Journal'' in the article JJG was editing:
# Warned to abide by the one-revert rule when making edits within the scope of the Arab-Israeli conflict topic area.
# Blocked from editing for 1 week for violating consensus required on the page ]


;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
<u>Interviewer</u>: So when the commanders of ] are standing there and observing the long and terrible column of the 50,000 people expelled from Lod walking eastward, you stand there with them? You justify them?


*Previously given a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction or warned for conduct in the area of conflict on by {{admin|ScottishFinnishRadish}}.
<u>Benny Morris</u>: I definitely understand them. I understand their motives. I don’t think they felt any pangs of conscience, and in their place I wouldn’t have felt pangs of conscience. Without that act, they would not have won the war and the state would not have come into being.
*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on .


; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
<u>Interviewer</u>: You do not condemn them morally?
All edits were made at ]. After I with an explanation, I , asking for their rationale.
They replied that they were & asked if I "perhaps have a deeper bias that’s influencing decisions in this respect?"


They then
<u>Benny Morris</u>: No.


: ] - While I can't find any comments where they were explicitly ''"warned for casting aspersions"'', they were to ] in the topic area.
<u>Interviewer</u>: '''They perpetrated ethnic cleansing.'''


:Also, apologies for my ''"diffs of edits that violate this sanction"'' section, this is the first time I've filed a request here & I thought it'd be best to explain the ''preamble'' to my revert, but I understand now that I misunderstood the purpose of that section & will remember such for the future. - ] (]) 15:37, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
<u>Benny Morris</u>: There are circumstances in history that justify ethnic cleansing. I know that this term is completely negative in the discourse of the 21st century, but when the choice is between ethnic cleansing and genocide—the annihilation of your people—I prefer ethnic cleansing.


:@] I was able to find a copy of the opinion article being cited . ] (]) 20:14, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
<u>Interviewer</u>: And that was the situation in 1948?


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
<u>Benny Morris</u>: '''That was the situation...'''


<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
<u>Interviewer</u>: The term “to cleanse” is terrible.


===Discussion concerning KronosAlight===
<u>Benny Morris</u>: I know it doesn’t sound nice but '''that’s the term they used at the time. I adopted it from all the 1948 documents in which I am immersed.'''
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>


====Statement by KronosAlight====
<small>''( emphasis added in three quotations above )''</small>


This is a complete waste of the Arbitration Committee’s time.
<nowiki>< snip > ...</nowiki>


1. That Yousef was born and raised a Muslim is important and neutral context for readers to be aware of when the article refers to claims of ‘Islamophobia’.
<u>Interviewer</u>: Are you saying that <nowiki></nowiki> ] was personally responsible for a deliberate and systematic policy of mass expulsion?


2. The scarequotes indicate that the claim comes from the sources provided, rather than being an objective ‘fact’ determined by a few Misplaced Pages Editors with an axe to grind.
<u>Benny Morris</u>: From April 1948, Ben-Gurion is projecting a message of transfer <nowiki></nowiki>. There is no explicit order of his in writing, there is no orderly comprehensive policy, but there is an atmosphere of <nowiki></nowiki> transfer. The transfer idea is in the air. The entire leadership understands that this is the idea...


3. This was already addressed on the Talk page and I updated the sentence to say settlers/soldiers with a further label that it needed further clarification because the source does not in fact unambiguously say what Butterscotch Beluga claims.
</div>


A few lines above what Butterscotch Beluga quotes is the following lines: “AMANPOUR: How did you take part in that? Were you one of the small children who threw rocks at Israeli soldiers?
In passing I'll also observe that in the same interview Benny Morris makes many comments that unquestionably show him as ultra-extreme in his views. For example, he characterizes the entirety of Palestinian society as a serial killer and says they should be treated as such, put in a kind of cage, at least, unless they're executed instead. He likewise remarks, "The Arab world as it is today is barbarian." It's simply indisputable that he's not a man to go to for a balanced opinion on anything to do with Israel or Middle East politics at all. I'm sure our Jewish friends here would say the same of any author who had expressed similar views about Israeli society.


YOUSEF: The model for every Palestinian child is a mujahid (ph) or a fidahi (ph) or a fighter. So, of course, I wanted to be one at that point of my life. It wasn't -- it's not my only dream. It's every child's dream in that territory.”
But my main point in including the interview excerpt above is to show that it's simply misleading to try to use Benny Morris to argue against the phrase "ethnic cleansing" as a characterization of the events of 1948. Morris has since tried to make a case that it wasn't deliberate, but he nevertheless ''embraces'' the phrase "ethnic cleansing" for just that application.


The updated Wiki page noted both settlers/soldiers and included a note that this requires further clarification, perhaps based on other sources, because it isn’t clear (contra Butterscotch Beluga) whether he is referring to soldiers or settlers.
Relatedly, if Jiujitsuguy had truly been interested in presenting a neutral point of view concerning Ilan Pappe's book, ''The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine'', rather than trying merely to discredit it, he could easily have found and used by '']'', which describes it in part as follows:


4. It is not controversial to accurately describe Hamas as a terrorist organisation. It is simply a fact. To suggest otherwise is POV-pushing.
:''Framing his argument with accepted international and U.N. definitions of ethnic cleansing, Pappe follows with an excruciatingly detailed account of Israeli military involvement in the demolition and depopulation of hundreds of villages, and the expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Arab inhabitants. An accessible, learned resource, this volume provides important insights into the historical antecedents of today's conflict, but its conclusions will not be easy for everyone to stomach...''


5. This is not POVPUSH; ‘assassinations’ against civilians during peacetime are usually called ‘murders’.
Also, along with many others who've expressed similar concerns on the article's talk page ]/ and at RSN ]/, I find it troubling that Jiujitsuguy replaced so widely respected a source as the ''Guardian's'' Ian Black with so heavy a reliance on economics professor Leslie Stein's book, ''The Making of Modern Israel'', when Stein is very much a partisan apologist for Israel, according to third-party review quotations at RSN. I likewise find it a bit troubling that contrary to his week-ago promise (apparently rescinded?) on the article's talk page, Jiujitsuguy appears not to have forwarded any page scan from this book to those he promised it too, a book that none of have so far been able to access. I'd be less concerned about that if he had responded to requests for verbatim quotations that support that he bases on Leslie Stein's ''Making of Modern Israel''.


I in fact didn’t even remove the word ‘assassinations’, I merely broadened the description from ‘Israelis’ to ‘Israeli civilians and soldiers’ (as Butterscotch accepted) to indicate the breadth of the individuals in question included both civilians and combatants. This is not POVPUSH, it is simply additional information and context verified in the source itself.
In conclusion, in these edits Jiujitsuguy deleted neutral, eminently-respected sources, using a verhy misleading edit summary to do so, and replaced them with with extremist sources, including heavy reliance on a book that is much less accessible and that he has so far refused to quote from directly to try to support his edit. In addition, he cited one extremely partisan author, Benny Morris, as if Morris objected to the description of the events of 1948 as "ethnic cleansing", which he most emphatically does not.


All in all, a vexatious claim and a waste of the Arbitration Committee’s time.
Finally, think about Jiujitsuguy's user name, for a moment. He doesn't edit articles on Asian martial arts, that I'm aware of, so why ''that'' name? If you'll "sound it out" slowly, you'll probably notice that the name can be interpreted as a double-entendre declaring its owner as a champion on behalf of Jewish ideology. Whether that play on words was intentional or not, the name does well-represent his combative editing behavior here.


====Statement by Sean.hoyland====
'''It's my strong opinion that Jiujitsuguy's edits are first and foremost those of a ] warrior, a zealous propagandist without intrinsic allegiance to Misplaced Pages and its principles except to the extent they can be used to disseminate his preferred message.''' The entirety of his editing here, never mind his explicit off-site canvassing for new partisans for just that purpose, demonstrates such contempt for the goals of the encyclopedia as I've rarely seen equaled among established editors. &nbsp;–&nbsp;<font face="Cambria">] (])</font> 21:08, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
Regarding "I was correcting factual errors introduced by previous antisemitic editors", it would be helpful if KronosAlight would explicitly identify the antisemitic editors and the edits they corrected so that they can be blocked for being antisemitic editors. ] (]) 08:17, 16 December 2024 (UTC)


The editor has been here since 2012. It is reasonable to assume that they know the rules regarding aspersions. It is reasonable to assume they are intentionally violating them, presumably because they genuinely believe they are dealing with antisemitic editors. So, this report is somehow simultaneously a vexatious complete waste of time and the result of the someone interfering with their valiant efforts to correct errors made by antisemitic editors. Why do they have this belief? , a comment they had the good sense to revert. For me, this is an example of someone attempting to use propaganda that resembles antisemitic conspiracy theories about media control to undermine Misplaced Pages's processes and then changing their mind. But the very fact that they thought of it is disturbing. Their revert suggests that they are probably aware that there are things you can say about an editor and things you cannot say about an editor. From my perspective, what we have here is part of an emerging pattern in the topic area, a growing number of attacks on Misplaced Pages and editors with accusations of antisemitism, cabals etc. stemming in part from external partisan sources/influence operations. ] (]) 17:35, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
{{collapse bottom}}
====Statement by Zero0000====
Aspersions:
*
*
*
*
]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 10:36, 16 December 2024 (UTC)


====Statement by Vice regent====
In summary, its my belief that a careful analysis of these of Jiujitsuguy's edits, quite typical for him, of the other incidents in this report, and of his very long history of using the encyclopedia to promote ultra-extremist views and of encouraging others to do so, make him entirely unsuitable as an editor in any article remotely connected to this difficult topic area. He's shown time and time and time again that he simply will always give his POV goals precedence over every other possible consideration. &nbsp;–&nbsp;<font face="Cambria">] (])</font> 21:08, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
{{u|KronosAlight}}, you on 14 Dec 2024: "{{tq|An open letter signed by Christian and Muslim religious leaders interpreted that statement as a threat and incitement to violence}}" to "{{tq|An open letter signed by Christian and Muslim religious leaders claimed was a threat and incitement to violence, though no threats or violence in fact occurred}}".


Can you show where either of the sources state "though no threats or violence in fact occurred"? ''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 18:07, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
<small>''As the preceding section-title makes clear, this section of the page is for my own comments; it's not an invitation to open a debate here. Your own comments belong in their own separate and dedicated section. Similarly, please refrain from posting remarks in the "Results" section of this page if you're not an administrator. Thank you. &nbsp;–&nbsp;<font face="Cambria">] (])</font> 21:08, 20 January 2012 (UTC)''</small>


====Statement by Smallangryplanet====
:What pisses me off most (not just here but in general) are the attempts to get into one's head and to interpret his behavior and his language based on own views. This is a faulty way of thinking which produces zero valuable information. Always assume people mean what they say. Always look into what people do, not why they do it. JJG shall be judged according to his deeds, not his supposed motives. Morris credibility shall be judged according to his weight in academic word as historian, not moral assessment of his interviews. --<span style="font:8pt verdana; background-color:whitesmoke; border:1px solid gray">&nbsp;]<sup style="font-size:7pt">]</sup></span> 22:48, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
Wanted to add some pertinent evidence:
::Apparently, OhioStandard would agree if we were discussing someone from ''his'' "side of the the political gulf in Mideast politics". ] (]) 23:12, 20 January 2012 (UTC)


'''Talk:Zionism''':
==== Comment by No More Mr Nice Guy ====
Since apparently the admins are taking OhioStandard's analysis seriously, I'd like to point out some inaccuracies (I'm AGFing when calling them that).


*
*1st edit:
*
:*I don't know what he meant by "journalist and Black co-author Benny Morris", but Morris is a serious professor of history and a leading expert in the field, which I doubt anyone who is familiar with scholarship on the IP conflict doesn't consider a reliable source. Black is a journalist, and this piece is a book review. I think any serious wikipedian would expect an article like this to contain many more references to scholarly works than to book reviews, even if they are from "Great Britain's prestigious Guardian newspaper".
*
:::Taking the very extreme step of typing both names into Google yields this from Benny Morris' wikipedia page: 'When Conrad Black bought the Post in 1990, Morris was one of the Israeli left-wing journalists. continued to write as a freelance, producing ''Israel's Secret Wars'', co-written with Ian Black of The Guardian'. ] (]) 09:57, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
*
::::If you did type both names into google you know that ''professor'' Morris is one of the leading scholars in the field of history of the IP conflict. I highly doubt anyone who has more than a passing interest in the history of the conflict doesn't know that. Good on you for using wikipedia as a source though. ] (]) 16:39, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
:::::You miss the point. You wrote 'I don't know what he meant by "journalist and Black co-author Benny Morris". I simply indicated that it was a trivial task to discover a) that Morris had a career in journalism, and b) that he co-authored a book with Black. The fact that he is also a Professor is neither here nor there with regard to understanding the sentence you indicated. There is no need to take Misplaced Pages's word for the sentence I quoted - simply follow the sources in the article for his work as a journalist and check Amazon if you don't believe he co-authored the book with Black.] (]) 18:29, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
::::::It's you who's missing the point. He was a journalist 20 years ago. Now he's a professional historian, and has been for quite a while. Calling him a journalist is just another attempt to make it seem he's not a high quality reliable source, when he very obviously is. He's one of the world's most prominent experts in his field which happens to include the subject of the article in question. It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that he's referenced extensively, as opposed to referencing what an actual journalist wrote in a book review, for example. ] (]) 19:56, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
:::::::I'm not disputing that he is a reliable source, a Professor, and a legitimate person to cite extensively. But given that you claimed not to know what the sentence in question meant, I thought I would enlighten you. Please stop making a mountain out of a molehill.] (]) 21:23, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
:*The statement is from a book review written by a journalist. Not exactly the highest quality RS. Better sourcing was requested multiple times on the talk page but none was forthcoming. You'd think that if something was "widely considered", some scholars would note that. This is classic REDFLAG.
:*That Black was interviewed on the BBC about Syria has what relationship to a book review he wrote about something other than Syria?
*2nd edit:
:*OS notes that the Clairmont Institute calls Morris "Israel's most contentious historian" (implying that he is not reliable). What makes Morris contentious (particularly to a conservative think tank) is that he is one of the leading ] who question Israel's traditional historical narrative. Again, this is common knowledge to anyone who is familiar with the scholarship.
:*OS then attempts to impinge on Morris' scholarship based on a newspaper interview and OS's opinion thereof. I challenge him to take Morris to RS/N and see if anyone, including pro-P editors, think he is not a high quality RS.
:*OS appears to be saying Leslie Stein is not a reliable source and is a "partisan apologist for Israel", linking to the RS/N discussion which doesn't seem to support his conclusion that Stein is not RS.
:*OS continues by trying to pass a positive review of Pappe's book as "neutral" (I doubt that's what NPOV is about).
:*But the piece de resistance is OS's opinion one what JJG's username sounds like when you "sound it out slowly", and what that implies. Someone has Jews on the brain apparently. Here's an alternative explanation - JJG likes Jiujitsu but doesn't edit articles on martial arts. Occam's razor says...?


'''Talk:Allegations of genocide in the 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon''':
In summary, OS is apparently not well versed in who the leading scholars of the history of the IP conflict are. He obviously has a very partisan outlook regarding which sources should be considered reliable, based on his political opinion (which he is not shy about, as can be seen by the diff I posted in his section above). This colors his "analysis" throughout. ] (]) 07:40, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


*
==== Comment by Brewcrewer ====
Sanctioning JGG for this complaint will create a disturbing precedent. This is as close as possible to a simple content dispute. The edit was clearly silly, but the usual consensus of editors that did not make that one judgement mistake ruled the day. No harm resulted, and that's exactly the way things are supposed to play out where volunteer editors are using their editorial judgement. A sanction here will be a sanction for poor judgement, something AE was clearly never intended for, and will cause a chilling effect here on Misplaced Pages. Editors will be afraid to make reliably sourced albeit ] lest they be dragged to AE on the grounds that the edit was not sound. --'']] ]'' 02:06, 23 January 2012 (UTC)


'''Talk:Relations between Nazi Germany and the Arab world''':
===Result concerning Jiujitsuguy===
<!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.-->
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''
*I'm not too familiar with the history of Jiujitsuguy, so I will have to look into that more, but the above doesn't look too good. Given the history of sanctions, I would think that to include material like that he would want to bring it up on the talkpage ''first''. Obviously awaiting Jiujitsuguy's response before trying to pin down how long any sort of sanction would be. ] (]) 03:44, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
*:@MichaelNetzer I'm fully aware that discussion is only required when an edit is contested; however, given his history of sanctions I would expect him to be more circumspect, especially given the potentially inflammatory nature of his addition. I'm finding it hard to believe that he wouldn't have expected someone to contest it, and the best thing to do when making a potentially controversial edit after having been sanctioned for making similar edits would be to discuss it first. That way, he probably could have avoided ending up here. ] (]) 17:27, 14 January 2012 (UTC)


*
*I'd like to hear from JJG before anything is decided, but the above amply demonstrates the kind of battleground mentality the topic area would be better off without. The edit-warring and selective quoting of sources to effectively skew the facts, taken together with the long history of sanctions and block of which JJG has been the subject would suggest a long topic ban is in order. It seems little has changed of JJG's attitude over the past few years, except that he has learned to play the game well enough to avoid being sanctioned for any one edit. His attitude is not completely out of the ordinary, but many of those with similar attitudes are currently blocked or topic-banned. ] &#124; ] 21:48, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
**@JJG: The thrust of the complaint is not the verifiability of the claim that ex-Nazis were involved, but the neutrality of it when you didn't think to mention the British, American, or Yugoslav participants that were referenced on the very same page. But you're a clever guy, you knew that. You've also failed to address the combative reverting and general battleground mentality I raised concerns about. So let me ask you a direct question: how does the Israel-Palestine topic area benefit from your presence? ] &#124; ] 00:01, 15 January 2012 (UTC)


'''Talk:2024 Lebanon electronic device attacks''':
****OK, I missed that you noted the Yugoslavs as well, my apologies. I still think your conduct in reverting leaves a lot to be desired—re-adding content you know is controversial without first gaining consensus is never a good idea, regardless of whether it violates a technical restriction on number of reverts. I also think you're smart enough to know that adding the Nazi flag to such an article is likely to be seen as provocative.<p>I think you would benefit from voluntarily taking a break from the topic area for a few weeks, and I'm still thinking of proposing that you should be obliged to explain your reasons for any revert both in an edit summary and on the talk page, but hat could take the form of a voluntary agreement rather than a formal sanction. Other than that, I would suggest that you try very hard to act collegialy and avoid being seen to act combatively, because the more combative you're seen as being, the more likely you are to find yourself in the dock here. ] &#124; ] 01:22, 15 January 2012 (UTC)


*
*The Rockefeller edit is stale and I'm not even sure why it was even mentioned in this context. I concur with ZScarpia's corrected comment, to me this flag stuff is nonsense and JJG knows it and knows it's the kind of thing he needs to stay away from. I concur with HJM's original comment, there is little else we can do here but long term or indefinite TBAN. With regard to asad, I don't agree with his synthesis of what happened in JJG's last case here or making reference to me without at least letting me know about it. --] (]) 18:03, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
**There are times when I would love to just gather up the regulars here and ban them from the I/P topic area. I'm not convinced that JJG should escape this thread without sanction, but topic bans are blunt instruments. Perhaps a more refined sanction, like a 0RR, a requirement to discuss all reverts or something else that might address the problems complained about here. ] &#124; ] 01:25, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
*The Ex-Nazi edit is plainly tendentious. (And yes, tendentious editing is a conduct issue that is within the jurisdiction of AE.) I think a topic ban is appropriate. @HJ: Sometimes blunter is better. Just look at the track record of the relatively "refined" community sanctions at issue in the Betacommand case. Besides, how do you craft a sanction that addresses tendentious editing without excluding the editor from the topic area outright anyway? ] (]) 15:55, 16 January 2012 (UTC)


'''Talk:Anti-Zionism''':
====Refactor For Consensus====


*
It seems to me JJG missed the initial point about the use of the Nazi flag, seems to be clear to him now. I want to ] he is being honest about that but his history is less than clean from the ban. He appears to have reliable sources to back up his position but went about it in a completely wrong way. I would suggest some leeway was given in a similar circumstance about inserting "Palestinian" in various articles and categories, perhaps a similar remedy could be crafted here banning the editing of belligerents and use of flags for 6 months with the understanding the next infraction will be a long term TBAN. --] (]) 18:49, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
*
:<s>I'd be fine with that. ] (]) 19:26, 20 January 2012 (UTC)</s> In light of what OhioStandard points out above, I see something a lot more problematic at work here. Getting overly focused on the Nazi flag issue will prevent us from seeing the forest for the trees. I think a topic ban of some long length would be called for at this point, as I can clearly see from OhioStandard's comments above that there's a level of tendentiousness I missed before. ] (]) 22:45, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
*Israel–Palestine is one of those topic areas that provokes extremely strong feelings in a lot of people. Those strong feelings have a tendency to blind each party to the potential that the other may be acting in good faith, and they can drive editors to do things that, outside of such areas, they would never normally contemplate. Thus, I think some editors are just not suited to edit in areas where they have such strong feelings. In Israel–Palestine, there are several (some of whom are currently on long-term topic bans), and I think JJG is perhaps one of them. As much I dislike the lack of sophistication in a blanket topic ban, I'm recommending a topic ban of no fixed duration, but to be reviewed after six months. Alternatively, if JJG were willing to step away voluntarily for six months, I would be willing to consider it a gentlemen's agreement, rather than a formal sanction. ] &#124; ] 04:45, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


'''Talk:Gaza genocide''':
This case has gone on long enough, there seems to be a consensus of opinion that a long-term TBAN is in order and I was not totally adverse to that myself. The time has come, indefinite TBAN which can be reconsidered at a later date after harmonious editing elsewhere in the project. --] (]) 05:38, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
*
{{hab}}
*


'''Talk:Nuseirat rescue and massacre''':
== Yfever ==
{{hat|{{User|Yfever}} warned. of R-I General Sanctions. --] (]) 18:38, 22 January 2012 (UTC)}}
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.''


*
===Request concerning Yfever===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : ] (]) 05:54, 16 January 2012 (UTC)


'''Talk:Al-Sardi school attack''':
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Yfever}}
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


*
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced:
Discretionary sanctions warning for ]


'''Talk:Eden Golan''':
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. -->
# SPA

; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
Editor was advised in Dec by Aprock who is not an admin. The involved articles continue to be plagued by gaming and proxy editing on behalf of topic banned editors following the arbitration decision, and just one of the games has been to cry foul with the "nobody warned me first" defense. Besides the SPA pattern evident in the edit history, I have other reasons for being very concerned this is another new proxy account recruited to take over where others left off. I'm asking that an official notification be issued by an admin so there is no unresolved ambiguity over procedural enforcement.

; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
]


<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


*
===Discussion concerning Yfever===


'''Other sanctions''':
Re T.C.: Race and intelligence, which is an area that OBVIOUSLY needs more agenda driven single purpose editors. I wonder which banned editor influenced this individual to come and refight old battles. ] (]) 13:05, 19 January 2012 (UTC)


* March 2024: for ], ], etc
====Statement by Yfever====
* June 2024: to abide by 1RR
* October 2024: for a week


====Statement by (username)====
====Comments by others about the request concerning Yfever====
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->
] is the applicable case, I believe. I have no prior involvement in any of this, for the record, just following the trail from DRV. ] (]) 15:16, 19 January 2012 (UTC)


===Result concerning KronosAlight===
*I requested a checkuser report on this user at ] as a precaution because of intervening edits to ] by an obvious ipsock of Mikemikev. In the meantime, I think this type of editing reminds me more of {{userlinks|Rrrrr5}}. He was identified as a usurper of the administrator account {{userlinks|Spencer195}}. I don't quite know how this can be checked. ] (]) 19:57, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
:: is a historic link to the checkuser case where some of the problems with this user's edits are mentioned. ] (]) 02:53, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
* Much of the "diffs of edits that violate this sanction" fail to explain "how these edits violate" the sanction - to me, much of these diffs look like a content dispute. However, the "additional comments" section DOES have a diff that is concerning and violates the CT by casting an aspersion that is not backed up by a diff - the "antisemitic editors" diff. Has KA been previously warned for casting aspersions? If they have, I'm inclined to issue a topic ban, but many other editors get a warning for this if they lack a previous warning. The diffs brought up by Zero (not all of which I necessarily see as aspersions, but the "Jew-hatred" one is definitely over the line - but it's from September so a bit late to sanction for just that) - did anyone point out that aspersions/incivility in this topic area is sanctionable? I see the warnings for 1RR and consensus required... ] (]) 13:30, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

** {{ping|KronosAlight}} - can you address the fact that saying "correcting factual errors introduced by previous antisemitic editors" and "Is there no limits you will not cross in order to seek to justify your Jew-hatred"? Neither of these are statements that should ever be made - and the fact that you seem to not to understand this is making me lean towards a topic ban. ] (]) 14:45, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
@WGFinley, the remedy proposed is not a sanction, but rather to officially notify the user of ]. ] (]) 05:53, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
*KronosAlight, can you please provide quotes from the references you cited for - for instance - "for his terrorist activities" in , showing that the sources explicitly supported the content you added? Calling a person or an organization is perfectly acceptable if you support that with reliable sources; if it is original research, or source misrepresentation, it isn't acceptable. I cannot access some of the sources in question. You may provide quotes inside a collapsed section if you wish to save space. ] (]) 19:28, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
* Fair enough but that didn't really need an AE report, any editor can do the notification. --] (]) 18:38, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
*:I missed Zero's comments earlier. A lot of those comments, while concerning, are generic, not directed at a specific editor. , however, is beyond the pale. I would need some convincing that this user is able to edit this area constructively. ] (]) 20:56, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
===Result concerning Yfever===
*::@], can you please respond to this? I too am concerned...the quote you're objecting to wasn't from DrSmarty. It was a ''direct quote'', scare quotes and all, from the US Holocaust Memorial Museum. You seem to have reacted to it as if it were DrSmarty. ] (]) 16:06, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
<!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.-->
*I don't like to sanction ''in absentia'', and I'm not yet suggesting we do so, but I want to note that not choosing not to respond here, or going inactive to avoid responding, will not improve the outcome as far as I am concerned. ] (]) 17:20, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''
*Which arbitration decision are we talking about here? ] (]) 15:57, 16 January 2012 (UTC) *:They're a pretty sporadic editor...many edits over a period of a few days, then nothing for two weeks. Maybe we pin this until they edit again? ] (]) 17:26, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
*::I agree with Valereee that this editors contribution history shows a pattern of editing for a day or two at a time followed by several weeks of inactivity. So I don't think it's fair to say they went inactive here but also holding this open for multiple weeks waiting for a response places some burden on the other other interested editors. ] (]) 17:33, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
**@Hipocrite & Tarc: Yeah, I see it now. When I made that comment above the request didn't contain any reference to an arbitration case. It was subsequently added. ] (]) 19:48, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
*:Welp, it's been nearly ten days since they first posted here, calling this a waste of time and vexatious. They're fully aware it's happening, and it's not even like they haven't been to AE before.
*Being an SPA in an and of itself is not subject to sanction, it's something to consider when accounting for behavior. We need some illustrations (diffs) of behavior that is subject to sanction to take any action. --] (]) 21:45, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
*:I've gone through the diffs here, and it seems to me the basis of KA's problematic editing is that they're on a mission to ], specifically w/re what they see as antisemitic bias on WP. The exchange at ] a few weeks ago makes that pretty clear: they come into Algeria and open a section to post a content complaint about the article not covering changing Jewish demographics in the country, saying "Many people have edited it, but apparently not one has seen fit to explain" this. Another editor suggests KA fix whatever problem they're seeing, and KA responds: {{xt|I made that comment to highlight the obvious problem of antisemitism among Misplaced Pages editors. The question was rhetorical.}} And many of their other talk contributions are focussed on these accusations of systemic bias.
*:And @], in case you're paying attention: ''of course'' WP has systemic bias. It's usually unintentional, but in most CTOPs there ''are'' editors who consciously try to push a POV. The solution for that isn't to go 'round making accusations. It's to go 'round fixing the problem either by adding missing content or by discussing biased content in nonproblematic ways. It's the "nonproblematic ways" part you're missing, here. And if you are paying attention: You cannot make an AE case go away by ignoring it. I very strongly recommend you come in here and respond to the questions. ] (]) 13:40, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
*I propose closing this with an indefinite topic ban in a day or two, unless KA decides to respond. I think KA needs to be aware that they have fallen short of the required standards of behavior no matter the topic, and similar incivility elsewhere will quite likely result in an indefinite block. ] (]) 17:55, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
*:Support. ] (]) 18:05, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
*::Been watching this thread from afar, but it looks like a civil POV-pushing case to me and I support as well. ] (] • she/her) 18:54, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
*:::I don't know about that. I haven't determined if their edits were supported by sources or not - so I don't know if this is POV-pushing - but it looks pretty uncivil to me. ] (]) 17:35, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
*::::Oh, that's fair on the civility :) I was mostly looking at the mainspace edits. ] (] • she/her) 17:40, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*<!--
-->
{{hab}} {{hab}}


==Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Nicoljaus==
== Unomi ==
{{hat|Appeal declined --] <sup>]</sup> 19:56, 1 January 2025 (UTC)}}
<small>''Procedural notes: Per the ], a "clear and substantial consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.''</small>


<small>''To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections{{space}}but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see ]).''</small>
{{hat|Unomi blocked for 12 hours by Stifle for uncivil language. <strong>]<small>•]</small></strong> 17:58, 20 January 2012 (UTC) }}
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.''


; Appealing user : {{userlinks|Nicoljaus}} – ] (]) 13:09, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
===Request concerning Unomi===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : —] (]) 10:16, 17 January 2012 (UTC)


; Sanction being appealed : To enforce an ],&nbsp;and for edit warring, and , you have been ''']''' '''indefinitely''' from editing Misplaced Pages.
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Unomi}}


; Administrator imposing the sanction : {{admin|ScottishFinnishRadish}}
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]


; Notification of that administrator : I'm aware. ] (]) 13:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. -->
# – personal attack against me, if not against Zionist people collectively: "...they would stoop that low to get rid of you."
# – personal attack against me, if not against Zionist people collectively: "...people who have the gift of self-deception to the degree that we often come across with the Pro-Zionist Brigade would be able to dream up this SP accusation certainly better than them spending their time on obfuscating our articles."


===Statement by Nicoljaus===
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) :
<!-- Many arbitration remedies require a prior warning before sanctions may be imposed. Link to the warning here. -->
#Warned on by {{user|Wgfinley}}


The circumstances of my blocking were:
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
*I was looking for a Misplaced Pages account for ] to add it to Wikidata. I couldn't find it, so I did a little research. The in the article indicated that she participated in some '''WikiWrites'''(?) project. I didn’t find such a project, but I found the '''WikiRights''' project: https://ar.wikipedia.org/ويكيبيديا:ويكي_رايتس. It was organized by a certain Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor. I read the ] article and didn't see any outside perspective, "controversy" or anything like that, just self-representation. I surfed the Internet and instantly found information that must be in the article to comply with the NPOV. I started adding {{diff2|1220241573}}, everything went well for two days. Then:
If necessary, I can link to previous cases where incivility on the part of editors in the I/P topic area was grounds for sanctions. In this case, the nature of the attack clearly involves animosity toward Zionism and Zionist people and associating me personally with stereotypes of Zionists as degenerate, cunning and corrupt. The remarks were directed at me in the context of an SPI currently in progress at ], but that makes them no less inappropriate.—] (]) 10:16, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
*12:53, 23 April 2024 - Zero0000 made a complete cancellation of all additions {{diff2|1220380219}}</br>
:Unomi, you're free to believe in your heart that Zionists are degenerate, cunning and corrupt. I don't doubt there are others editing in the I/P topic area who hold similar convictions, but that's not anyone's business as long as they keep their prejudices private. When you apply those stereotypes to another Misplaced Pages contributor, as you did a third time , it's not only insulting toward that contributor himself but to the larger collective with which you've associated him. It should be very simple: restrict your opinions and comments to ''edits'', not to editors and not to large collectives of people when your criticism is irrelevant to the content you're objecting to. You were asked to withdraw your second comment. You're now making things worse by using a sarcastic tone that serves no other function than to provoke hostility and make an already foul situation worse.—] (]) 10:44, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
*13:14, 23 April 2024 - (20 minutes later!) Selfstudier wrote on my TP {{diff2|1220382377}}</br>
:::], thanks for your input. Do you mean to tell me that statements like ''You should be flattered the homosexuals would stoop that low to get rid of you'' or ''people who have the gift of self-deception to the degree that we often come across with the Pro-Homosexual Brigade'' would be dismissed as "not nice" and that be the end of it? The ARBPIA sanctions were crafted with a mind to keep the I/P topic area from deteriorating into a swamp of editors continually getting into conflict with each other to the point where they can no longer function collaboratively as a community. This is certainly the spirit of ]. Frankly, I don't see how you can expect me to continue collaborating in an environment where the kind of prejudice invoked here is allowed to continue with no response.—] (]) 11:01, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
*14:20 - 14:22, 23 April 2024 -‎ With two edits ({{diff2|1220390536|first}}, {{diff2|1220390820|second}}) I partially took into account the comment of Zero0000 about "ethnic marking", but returned the last {{Diff||1220390820|1220380219}}.</br>
], as your account is only about 20 days old and there's currently an SPI pending to determine if you're Unomi's sock or possibly someone else's, I'll permit myself to regard your comment here with a degree of suspicion comparable to how input from SPAs is judged in other non-mainspace venues. But regardless, Unomi's comments were unequivocally personal in nature: they targeted editors and people, not political positions.—] (]) 11:45, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
*14:27, 23 April 2024 (7 minutes later!!) Selfstudier makes a second complete cancellation of all my edits, blaming POV editing {{diff2|1220391708}}</br>
:], ''stooping'', ''having a gift for self-deception'', etc. aren't political positions. They don't have anything to do with politics. They have to do with applying a prejudice to an editor and a group of people. If Unomi had expressed his views on Zionism or some other inanimate entity, your observation might be valid. But Unomi specifically referenced ''people'', and that makes the nature of his attacks ''personal''. But thank you for allowing me to clarify the crucial distinction.—] (]) 12:05, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
*14:45, 23 April 2024‎ - I’m returning the version where I partially took into account Zero0000’s comments (removed "ethnic marking"){{diff2|1220394447}}</br>
::], you still haven't understood that the problem with Unomi's comments was that he attributed to an editor ''and'' to a group of people a set of negative stereotypes in a manner that had nothing to do with the actual content being debated. He included Zionists in his attack because he apparently endorses the anti-Zionist/antisemitic stereotypes he invoked of moral degeneracy, cunning and human rot; but he went further and applied those stereotypes to me on account of the SPI I filed against him and yourself. That's where he crossed the line.—] (]) 12:27, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
*15:10, 23 April 2024 - Selfstudier accuses me of 1RR breach. In the dialogue, I explained that the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination. My first undo was part of a counter edit ]</br>
:::], antisemitism only factors in because the stereotypes Unomi invoked have historically been applied both to Jews and to Zionists but not to other communities. If someone were to attribute to Republican voters an innate propensity for being degenerate, self-deceptive and corrupt, it would then become a collective stereotype applied to a group of people on account of their shared identity. It wouldn't be racism, just as homophobia isn't racism in the strict sense of the word, but it would be a form of bigotry. Anti-Zionism isn't bigotry either, so long as whatever criticism expressed is confined to ideology. When attacks are made against Zionists collectively, however, and when those attacks have the familiar ring of stereotypes historically associated with Jewish people, then they too are a form of bigotry. I'm not calling Unomi a bigot – I wouldn't be allowed to even if I thought the term were apt. But yes, the stereotypes he invoked and directed at me in the context of the SPI I filed against him and you constitute bigotry because they associate me with a set of negative stereotypes historically applied to Jews and Zionists.—] (]) 12:55, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
*15:41, 23 April 2024 Selfstudier writes on Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement {{diff2|1220403117}}</br>
*16:10, 23 April 2024 (30 minutes later!) ScottishFinnishRadish issues an indefinite block {{diff2|1220407252}}. No opportunity to write my “statement”, as well as an extremely bad faith interpretation of my remark as "an intent to game 1rr".</br>
Given that the both Selfstudier and Zero0000 are currently being discussed in Arbcom (https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_5/Evidence), I humbly ask you to take a fresh look at my indefinite block and soften the restrictions in some way". ] (]) 19:32, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
:{{yo|ScottishFinnishRadish}} - You {{diff2|1263932187||mean}}, I need to discuss my previous edit war blocks? Well, the last one was almost four years ago and that time I simply forgot that I was under 1RR (there was a big break in editing) and tried to get sources for a newly added map, and the opponent refused to do so {{diff2|983337359}}. As it turned out later, the true source was a book by a fringe author, which the RSN called "Usual nationalistic bullshit, no sign of reliability". Yes, it was a stupid forgetfulness on my part. ] (]) 16:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
:{{yo|Aquillion}} {{tq| Even if you were correct that Selfstudier & Zero0000 were WP:TAGTEAMing (always a tricky accusation, because it's hard to separate that from just your edits being so obviously problematic that two people independently reverted them)}} -- That's why I wrote that my "so problematic edits" attracted attention only after two days, but two users appeared within 20 minutes. However, after months, a lot of data about the cooperation of these users appeared (and this is not my imagination): "While a single editor, Shane (a newbie), advocated for its inclusion, a trio of veterans including Zero0000, Nishidani and Selfstudier fought back. After Selfstudier accused Shane of being a troll for arguing for the photo’s inclusion, Zero0000, days later, “objected” to its inclusion, citing issues of provenance. Nishidani stepped in to back up Zero0000, prompting a response by Shane. The following day, Zero0000 pushed back against Shane, who responded. The day after, Nishidani returned with his own pushback. The tag-team effort proved too much for Shane, who simply gave up, and the effort succeeded: the photo remains absent" . I'll add that after Selfstudier accused Shane of trolling, Zero0000 appeared on Shane's page and said: "Kindly keep your insults to yourself I won't hesitate to propose you for blocking if you keep it up" {{diff2|1017316378}}. According to the table at the link , these two users cooperated like this 720 times. Probably hundreds of people were embittered, forced out of the project, or led to blocking like me.--] (]) 13:02, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
:{{ping|ScottishFinnishRadish}} Hello, thank you very much for transferring my remarks, now I understand how it works. I would like to clarify the issue of meatpuppetry. You directly accused me of such intentions in justifying the block, and now this accusation has been repeated {{diff2|1264013557}}. Let's figure out whether that Selfstudier and Zero0000 are working too closely was so absurd? Was it really and remains so absurd that it could not be perceived as anything other than my self-exposure? I don't think so.</br>
As for the "edit war" - I understand that edit wars are evil. In the spirit of cooperation, I tried to meet my opponents halfway, as in this case, taking into account their claim, which I could understand, in the counter edit. If such an action is also considered an edit war and a violation of the 1RR/3RR rule - I will of course avoid it in the future.--] (]) 16:00, 20 December 2024 (UTC)


@Valereee: Hello, I understand your point that edit wars can be disruptive, particularly in a CTOP context. However, I believe it is essential to recognize that not all reverts carry the same implications. While it is true that a revert is a revert, the context and intent behind the action should also be taken into account. In this instance, I made efforts to address the concerns of the other party involved, which reflects a willingness to engage in dialogue rather than simply reverting.
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
Furthermore, I acknowledge your reference to the 1RR/3RR rule and my history of blocks for edit-warring. However, given the amount of time that has passed, I believe I have gained valuable insights and learned a great deal. Moreover, given this topic, I think I actually learned something unlike the other side, whose history of blocks for edit-warring remains clean.--Nicoljaus (talk) 4:24 am, Today (UTC−5)
.—] (]) 10:18, 17 January 2012 (UTC)


{{re|Valereee}} In response to {{diff2|1264999031||this}}, I can say that I already know very well how carelessly admins impose blocks. If any further statements are needed from me, just ping me. With best regards.--] (]) 09:51, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
===Discussion concerning Unomi===


====Statement by Unomi==== ===Statement by ScottishFinnishRadish===
Absent from the appeal is discussion of the five prior edit warring blocks and any indication that they will not resume edit warring. ] (]) 13:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
Not really sure what she is tripping over, probably didn't get good Christmas presents. <i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">]]]</i> 10:20, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
:I said {{tq|They have a long history of edit warring, so I'd like to see that addressed rather than blaming others}} above, twelve days ago. ] (]) 16:30, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
:Here is a hint, if you don't want to be accused of acting irrationally then try to not come across as bat-shit insane. <i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">]]]</i> 10:27, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
:{{u|Nicoljaus}}, you should be focusing on convincing people that you won't edit war in the future rather than more ]. ] (]) 13:11, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
===Statement by (involved editor 1)===


===Statement by (involved editor 2)===
Stifle, apart from the circumstance of being lured into arguing with an idiot, I can't really. I felt provoked by what seemed to me a transparent attempt of Biosketch to have BHB ( and myself for that matter ) blocked on specious grounds. I find it upsetting when people engage in that kind of behavior, especially as it seems driven by a desire to promote an external agenda in a manner which runs counter to the goals of wikipedia. <i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">]]]</i> 14:19, 17 January 2012 (UTC)


===Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Nicoljaus ===
* Just to be clear, are you supporting blocking me for being uncivil towards a state? Or do you find the allegation that Biosketch is supporting a particular state uncivil? In reliable sources Israel is numbered among the ]s, see . That states engage in psychopathic behavior is not a controversial claim - should you want to read more about this you might want to refer to ].
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. <br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>


====Statement by Simonm223====
It is of course possible that I misconstrued the position of Biosketch, should she give indication that she does not support Israel in what is internationally recognized as occupation, and that the 700,000+ Israeli citizens living beyond the ] should rightfully vacate, then I would be happy to give my full and earnest apology for having misrepresented her views.
looks like a bright-line ] violation via ] and ] - and removing BLP violations are generally somewhere where there is some latitude on ] which makes the actions of Zero0000 and Selfstudier more justified, not less. ] (]) 13:50, 19 December 2024 (UTC)


====Statement by Aquillion====
In any case, in writing what I did I was acting on emotion - I found deeply problematic, not in terms of direct consequence to me, but what it says of the tactics in play. Just the issue of bringing up smileys, yet being completely blind to the differences in presentation and application spoke to me of a personality that would see only what it wanted to see, or worse, try to present what they knew as being an argument against as an argument for.


{{tq|Selfstudier accuses me of 1RR breach. In the dialogue, I explained that the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination. My first undo was part of a counter edit}} - I feel like this is obvious enough that I probably don't have to point it out, but "counter edit" is not a ] / ] exception. Even if you were correct that Selfstudier & Zero0000 were ]ing (always a tricky accusation, because it's hard to separate that from just your edits being so obviously problematic that two people independently reverted them), it ''still'' would not justify your revert. The fact that they're parties to an ArbCom case (which hasn't even yet found any fault with them!) doesn't change any of this. You should probably read ]. --] (]) 14:15, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
This kind of specious logic and fallacious reasoning runs rampant, not limited to I/P of course, but with I/P it is sickeningly blatant and recurring.


====Statement by Sean.hoyland====
If my sense of self-preservation was more developed I likely would not have lashed out, and I likely would be trying to project a level of repentance or confusion which I couldn't in good conscience say was earnest.
"the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination"...yet another conspiracy-minded evidence-free accusation against editors in the PIA topic area, the third one at AE in just a few days. ] (]) 14:59, 19 December 2024 (UTC)


====Statement by (uninvolved editor 1)====
I don't regret what I said, I find Biosketch's interpretation of what I ''really meant'' by it abhorrent, but not too surprising given the characteristics of the filters she seems to perceive the world through.


===Result of the appeal by Nicoljaus===
My take on self-preservation disallows becoming what I abhore, and frankly I am increasingly unconvinced that this is an environment I wish to preserve myself in. I have nothing but love for the idealistic goals of Misplaced Pages, but the reality is less lovable. <i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">]]]</i> 10:27, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
*I do not see any indication that Nicoljaus actually realizes the problem. The edit warring blocks were indeed some time ago, but one might think they would remember it after being blocked for it repeatedly, not to mention that being issued a CTOP notice might call a CTOP restriction to mind. And the remark in question sure looks to me like a threat to game 1RR via ], too. Given all that, I would decline this appeal. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 23:10, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
* I see nothing in this appeal that makes me think they've taken on board the changes that they'd need to do to be a productive editor. It reads to me like "my block was bad, here's why", and that's not working as a reason for me to support unblocking. ] (]) 23:21, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
* Nicoljaus, what we need to see is you demonstrating you understand edit-warring at a CTOP, which is what you were blocked for, and convincing us you won't do it again. Arguing the block should be lifted because other editors did something you thought looked suspicious isn't going to convince us. <small>Just FWIW, Nicoljaus, the source doesn't actually say {{xt|these two users cooperated like this 720 times}}. It says they edited the same articles 720 times, and that's not unusual. Most editors see the same other editors over and over again in articles about their primary interest. And edit by editor 1>2 days>revert by editor 2>revert by editor 1>20 minutes>revert by editor 3 is also not at all unusual anywhere on the encyclopedia and isn't evidence of tag-teaming. People read their watch lists. Any editor with that article on their watchlist, which is nearly fifty editors, might have investigated the large revert of an edit by an experienced editor at a contentious topic.</small> ] (]) 15:18, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
*:@], it's not that edit wars are evil. It's that they're disruptive, and particularly in a CTOP we really really don't need additional disruption and drama. A revert is a revert, even if you {{xt|tried to meet my opponents halfway, as in this case, taking into account their claim, which I could understand, in the counter edit}}. Re: {{xt|If such an action is also considered an edit war and a violation of the 1RR/3RR rule}}: a revert is a revert and is covered in the policy around reversions. And you have a history of blocks for edit-warring, including at other CTOPs.
*:It's been seven months since the block. I'm trying to come around to a way to at least allow this editor a ''chance'' to show us they've taken this stuff on board...maybe a 0RR at all CTOPs? ] (]) 17:44, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
*::@], re {{xt|I believe it is essential to recognize that not all reverts carry the same implications. While it is true that a revert is a revert, the context and intent behind the action should also be taken into account. In this instance, I made efforts to address the concerns of the other party involved, which reflects a willingness to engage in dialogue rather than simply reverting}}. Some editors at talk pages will take your apparent intentions into account. Some will just take you to ANEW. Some admins at ANEW will take your apparent intentions into account. Some will just reblock you.
*::''No one anywhere is promising that your intentions will be taken into account'' -- or even that they'll try to figure out what your intentions are -- and therefore it's ''completely your responsibility'' to read the situation you're in correctly. If you read it wrong, you're likely to be blocked again, and honestly another block for edit-warring at a CTOP is likely to be another indef, and it would absolutely not surprise me for the blocking admin to require 12 months to appeal. ] (]) 15:25, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*:::No need to reply, but I'll tell you plainly I've been trying to give you opportunities to convince other admins here, and you keep wanting to dig the hole deeper. I'd support an unblock with an editing restriction of 0RR at any article with a CTOPs designation on the talk page. ] (]) 13:13, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
* I would also decline this per Seraphimblade, even if there were to be an unblock I would expect a PIA topic-ban (at the least) to be included. ] 18:59, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
* I see a rough consensus, so I am closing the thread --] <sup>]</sup> 19:56, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
<!-- When closing this request (once there is a consensus) use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} if at AE, or an archive/discussion box template if on AN, inform the user on their talk page and note it in the contentious topics log below where their sanctions is logged. -->
{{hab}}


==PerspicazHistorian==
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


===Request concerning PerspicazHistorian===
I can't help but try to correct a woefully minuscule number of Biosketch's misapprehensions: First of all, not only is self-deception a common attribute among zealots of all stripes, it is ironically one that has seen scientific evidence in the context of Republicans: is almost as entertaining a read as the coincidentally relevant .
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|NXcrypto}} 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|PerspicazHistorian}}<p>{{ds/log|PerspicazHistorian}}</p>
Second of all, and do with this as you will, I am an aracialist, I don't prescribe to a world-view where "Semite" bears enough meaning to entertain antisemitism. The closest I can get is in the sense of black humor and how some don't even want to share antisemitism with other Semites, its only value to me is for depth sounding the sarchasm.


<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
Both of my parents were born soon after the war to mothers that were lucky to have survived it, my parents were not religious but the family that was were in uncharacteristic agreement that Zionism came before Hitler and that oaths were meant to be kept. My own take is that history is replete with examples of how weakness of mind can lead to strength of conviction in holding others to be subhuman - and how feeling wronged leads to doing wrong. Perhaps, we are all just playthings of happenstance and circumstance, products of cultural indoctrination and victim of defense mechanisms against our insecurities. Then again, perhaps we have a choice, should we will to exercise it. I could go on about how structural violence plays a part in how Israel now sees ~10% of their population and rising, living outside the ], and the impact of what can reasonably be characterized as economic refugees on what is "politically viable", as well as on what self-interested actors could see as being rational. What lies down that road is worth avoiding. <i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">]]]</i> 12:27, 19 January 2012 (UTC)


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
* Well, you have my blessing and understanding. Pull the trigger and lets get out of here. <i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">]]]</i> 08:24, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
# - removed "discrimination" sidebar from the page of ] (fascist ideology) even though the sidebar was inserted inside a section, not even the lead.
# - tag bombed the highly vetted ] article without any discussion or reason
# - attributing castes to people withhout any sources
# - edit warring to impose the above edits after getting
# - just like above, but this time he also added unreliable sources
# - still edit warring and using edit summaries instead of talk page for conversation
# - filed an outrageous report on WP:ANI without notifying any editors. This report was closed by Bbb23 as "{{tq|This is nothing but a malplaced, frivolous personal attack by the OP.}}"


; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
====Comments by others about the request concerning Unomi====
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->
@Biosketch - Expressing disdain for someone in relation to their political position is, whilst unhelpful, materially different from expressing disdain towards someone as a member of a sexual or ethnic minority. ] (]) 11:31, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
*Already 2 blocks in last 4 months for edit warring.
:You're free to regard my contribution however you like. It doesn't change the fact that your comparison of a mildly offensive comment made in relation to a political viewpoint to a comment made in relation to someone's sexuality is not apt. Disdain for someone's viewpoint or their intellectual abilities is not the same thing as disdain for a person based on their sexual (or ethnic) type and trying to conflate these two categories does not do justice to the problem you initially raised. ] (]) 11:56, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
::He mentioned people, yes, but the group of people are classed according to the political views they hold. It would be appropriate to substitute 'Tories', 'Liberals', 'Republicans', 'Democrats', 'Pro-Lifers', 'Pro-Choicers' or any other political position. But it is not appropriate to substitute 'Homosexuals'. It is broadly acceptable in normal society to state 'I hate Liberals' despite this being directed at people. It is not acceptable to state 'I hate homosexuals'. So you shouldn't expect a comment in relation to people that hold a political position to be considered as having precisely the same force as a comment in relation to someone's sexuality and to be thought equally problematic. I'll leave it there because you will either get the point or you won't. I'm not sure a fourth repetition will throw any further light on the issue. ] (]) 12:16, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
:::I think you may be reading a bit too much into it. Whilst the comments are not particularly pleasant, they don't say anything at all that goes beyond what one might reasonably say of any political position that one dislikes and considers to be supported by people who are lacking in rationality (check the editorial pages of the US press (and to a lesser extent that of the UK broadsheets) and you'll regularly find politicians 'stooping' to do something or being described as self-deceptive). I don't really see where anti-semitism comes into this at all. ] (]) 12:40, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
<!-- Add any further comment here -->


I do not see any positive signs that this editor will ever improve. So far he has only regressed. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
====Comment by ZScarpia====
Perhaps of relevance, the one case raised against Biosketch and the three raised by him or her at the noticeboard last year:
*
*
*
*
<span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 14:40, 17 January 2012 (UTC)


:While going through this report, PerspicazHistorian has made another highly problematic edit by edit warring and misrepresenting the sources to label the organisation as "terrorist". This primary source only provides a list of organisations termed by the Indian government as "terrorist" contrary to ]. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 03:12, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
Biosketch, you say that Unomi has applied the stereotypical characteristics degeneracy, cunning, corruptness, self-deception and human rotteness to Zionists or pro-Zionists. Where did he do that, or are you interpreting rather freely. "I'm not calling Unomi a bigot." No? A remark which "specifically referenced people" is "personal" in nature. A rather shaky claim. "Homophobia isn't racism in the strict sense of the word." Perhaps you lost your way in many of your arguments. <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 01:38, 20 January 2012 (UTC)


*PerspicazHistorian is still using sources (see ]) and wishing to move ] to ] which is a blatant POV. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 04:39, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
====Comment by No More Mr Nice Guy====
Perhaps of relevance, ] is supposedly one of Misplaced Pages's ], and there's an arbcom remedy that addresses it. You couldn't really guess that when an editor feels comfortable calling another editor an on an arbitration enforcement request specifically about their incivility, or a (caps in original) on the talk page of an admin who recently commented on said enforcement request.


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
I wish someone could explain to me why civility just isn't taken seriously. ] (]) 17:22, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request (you may use {{subst:AE-notice|thread name}}), and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->
:In my very limited experience, civility, like the assumption of good faith, appears to be taken seriously by editors only when it suits them. But then, I have been generally pretty unimpressed by how far the reality of wikipedia departs from its supposed ideals. Personally, I have a bit of sympathy with Unomi's view of Biosketch's general inability to follow rational lines of thought or to reason for himself in a correct way but I doubt that comments putting this position across in the words chosen by Unomi are very useful, despite the underlying thought seeming pretty accurate. It is actually quite hard to tell someone that they are being stupid in a civil way but an effort should still be made to avoid inflammatory incivility. On the other hand, aggressively supported irrationality can, itself, seem highly uncivil, as I have discovered myself in recent days (e.g. here ). I don't consider it civil to repeatedly call someone a liar unless one has very very solid grounds to do so, which inclines me to weigh up both Biosketch and Unomi in terms of pots and kettles. ] (]) 17:43, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
::I was kinda hoping an admin, or at least someone who doesn't have an ongoing feud with Biosketch, could answer my question. ] (]) 18:25, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
::: :-) Apologies - your question has been much on my mind the last few days. ] (]) 18:28, 17 January 2012 (UTC)


<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
===Result concerning Unomi===
<!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.-->
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''
*Yes, it's not nice, but no, I don't think it's a blocking offence. Climb down off the high horses, both of you. ] (]) 10:48, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
**], yes, I do think you're overreacting. ] (]) 13:38, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
**]: is very unhelpful. I invite you to show cause why you should not be blocked for 8 hours for making needlessly inflammatory remarks. ] (]) 13:40, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
*Agree with Stifle that Unomi's comment is uncivil and I recommend a block. ] (]) 16:15, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
*Concur per Ed and Stifle. --] (]) 18:51, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
*I think a block is necessary, given the continued incivility in (and elsewhere during) this thread about an alleged personal attack, followed up by statements like "I don't regret what I said". The only thing that makes me hesitate is the time that has elapsed since the original complaint. I still think a block is in order given the comments from just a few hours ago, but I'd like a a sanity check from another admin. ] &#124; ] 03:00, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
*Unfortunately, I have to agree with everyone above that Unomi should be blocked (I'd say 12 hours instead of 8, but either works). I do think, however, that Biosketch needs to get a grip and deserves fair warning that continued behavior like what's laid out above will very quickly lead to sanctions; I can't entirely blame Unomi for losing his shit after a while, which is why I don't think it should be a 24 hour block. ] (]) 04:03, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
*Blocked 12 hours, although I should have done so earlier. ] (]) 09:48, 20 January 2012 (UTC)


===Discussion concerning PerspicazHistorian ===
{{hab}}
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>


====Statement by PerspicazHistorian ====
== Sander Säde ==
*By far I am also concerned how my edits were forcefully reverted without a proper reason despite providing enough references. Please check how I am getting attacked by them on ] Page.
I didn't know about the three-revert-rule before ] told me about this: ].
Please grant me one more chance, I will make sure not to edit war.<br>
*In the below statement by LukeEmily, As a reply I just want to say that I was just making obvious edit on ] by adding a list of notable people with proper references. And according to ] it is clearly said: "Edits from a slanted point of view, general insertion or removal of material, or other good-faith changes are not considered vandalism." It was a good faith edit but others reverted it. I accept my mistake of not raising it on talk page as a part of ].<br>
*As a clarification to my edit on ], it can be clearly seen that I provided enough reference to prove its a terrorist organisation as seen in this . I don't know why is there a discussion to this obvious edit? Admins please correct me if I am wrong.
:@], Yes I read about 1RR and 0RR revert rules in ]. I now understand the importance of raising the topic on talk page whenever a consensus is needed. Thank You ! ] (]) 07:16, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::Yes, I will commit to that. ] (]) 13:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC) <small>Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 13:19, 20 December 2024 (UTC) </small>
:At that time I was new to how AFD discussions worked. Later on when ] was marked for deletion, I respected the consensus by not interfering in it. The article was later deleted. ] (]) 11:54, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
*Hi @] , I just checked your user page. You have 16 years (I am 19) of experience on wiki, you must be right about me. I agree that my start on Misplaced Pages has been horrible, but I am learning a lot from you all. I promise that I will do better, get more neutral here and contribute to the platform to my best. Please don't block me.
::''<small>P.S.- I don't know If I will be blocked or what , according to this enforcement rules, I just want to personally wish good luck to you for your ongoing cancer treatments, You will surely win this battle of Life. Regards.</small>'' ] (]) 12:23, 21 December 2024 (UTC)<small>Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section.] (]) 15:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)</small>


*1) I just asked an user @] if the page move is possible. What's wrong with it? I still have not considered putting a move request on talk page of article.
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.''
:2) Many of other sources are not raj era. Moreover I myself have deleted the content way before you pointing this out. Thank You ! ] (]) 06:29, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
::even @] is seen engaged in edit wars before on contentious Indian topics. ] (]) 06:37, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
:::as mentioned by @] before, <sub>Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here</sub>. You can discuss content related topics on talk pages of articles rather than personally targeting a user here in enforcement. ] (]) 06:42, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
::::@] I once filed a to find it @] is a sock (out of a misunderstanding, as all were teamed up similarly on various pages). I think he felt it as a personal attack by me and filed this request for enforcement. Please interfere. ] (]) 06:47, 29 December 2024 (UTC) <small>moving to correct section ] (]) 13:24, 29 December 2024 (UTC)</small>


*Hi @] @], In my defense I just want to say that
===Request concerning Sander Säde===
:1)Yes I usually edit on RSS related topics, but to ensure a democratic view is maintained as many socks try to disrupt such articles. Even on ] page, I just edited on request of talk page and added a graph. I don't think its a POV push.
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : ] <sup>]</sup> 11:15, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
:2) My main interest in editing is ] and ] topics.
:3)There have been certain cases in past where I was blocked but if studied carefully they were result of me edit warring with socks(although, through guidance of various experienced editors and admins I learnt a SPI should be filed first). I have learnt a lot in my journey and there have been nearly zero case of me of edit warring this month.
:Please do not block me. ] (]) 14:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
*@] I beg apologies for the inconvenience caused, thanks for correcting me. I will now reply in my own statement section. @] I am a quick learner and professionally competent to edit in this encyclopedic space. Please consider reviewing this enforcement if its an counter-attack on me as mentioned in my previous replies. You all are experienced editors and I have good faith in your decision-making capability.] (]) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
*@]@] I have edited content marked as "original research" and "mess" by you, I am ready to help removing any content that might be considered "poorly sourced" by the community. Please don't block me.] (]) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
*@] This enforcement started for edit-warring and now I feel its more concerned to my edited content(which I agree to cooperate and change wherever needed). After learning about edit wars, there has been no instance of me edit-warring, Please consider my request.--] (]) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
*:@] I am not a slow learner, I understand the concerns of all admins here. I will try my best to add only reliable sources, and discuss content in all talk pages, as I already mentioned ]. ] (]) 12:55, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
*::@]@] I think admins should focus more on encouraging editors when they do good and correct when mistaken. I have made many edits, added many citations and created much articles which use fine citations. The enforcement started out of retaliation by nxcrypto, now moving towards banning me anyways. I started editing out of passion, and doing it here on wiki unlike those who come here just for pov pushes and disrupt article space(talking about socks and vandalizers on contentious Indian topics).
*::The article ] doesn't only has issue on citations, but the whole article is copypasted from the citations I added. I just wanted to point that out. Remaining about ], I am currently pursuing Btech in cs from IIT delhi, idt I am a slow learner by any means. Still, happy new year to all ! ] (]) 14:01, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
*:::@] You mean to say, "<sub>The ''prasada'' is to be consumed by attendees as a holy offering. The offerings may include cooked food, ] and confectionery sweets. Vegetarian food is usually offered and later distributed to the devotees who are present in the ]. Sometimes this vegetarian offering will exclude prohibited items such as garlic, onion, mushroom, etc. "</sub> is not copy pasted by website? Is this also a wiki mirror website? How would you feel if I doubt your competence now? ] (]) 14:47, 31 December 2024 (UTC)


====Statement by LukeEmily====
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Sander Säde}}
PerspicazHistorian also violated ] by engaging in an edit war with {{u|Ratnahastin}} who reverted his edits and restored an article to a stable version by admin. Also, I want to assume good faith but it is surprising that PerspicazHistorian claims that he did not know the three revert rule given that he has more than 800 edits.] (])
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


====Statement by Doug Weller====
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
I'm involved so just commenting. I don't think this editor is competent. I had to give them a community sanction caste warning as they were making a mess of castes. See this earlier version of their talk page.]https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:PerspicazHistorian&oldid=1262289249] and ]'s comment that "It was very unwise of you to keep moving ] to article space when it has not passed review. As a direct result of your actions, a deletion discussion is taking place, and when this is complete and the article is deleted, you will be prevented from recreating it. ] (]) 14:44, 4 December 2024 (UTC)" There have also been copyright issues. I strongly support a topic ban. ] ] 11:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->


:::I won't be involved in the decision. No more treatments for me, just coast until... ] ] 12:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. -->
* As a result of ] I am banned from interacting with ], not just ].
* I brought attention to the weird sanction placed on me yet not on other EEML members ]. My concern back then, and still is today, is that editors can ] this one-sided interaction ban as a battleground tool to sideline editors from articles and discussions. I can provide recent examples where this has occurred.
* {{user|Carcharoth}} posts a response, which from that day forward I have used in my interactions on WP---'''comment on content, not on the editor.'''
* {{User:Fuseau}} posts problems with an article ]
* some comments in relation to Fuseau's comments.
* posts a comment requesting a scholarly source which states specific information.
* because I have the source and am familiar with the source and the subject. Nothing in that violates "comment on content, not on the editor".
* information which is not directed at Sander Sade, but at readers in general, and anyone who has any clue on this area will see that it is making the point that think-tanks and organisations with an agenda (social, political, economic, etc), and even though they may well be widely cited, their agenda that they are driving should be noted (using the "absolute joke" examples I made mention of), and that actually scholarly analysis is freely available and should be more highly considered. This is clearly commenting on content.
* posts a response to me, and finishes with "Also, Russavia, isn't your interaction ban still active?"
* The desired effect is achieved by Sander Sade, and I have removed myself (without comment) from any further participation on this article talk page. This is even though my comments are focussed entirely on content and are clearly targetted at article improvement, and I make no comments on editors. This self-removal of myself from the article within my area of interest (foreign relation of Russia) is done to prevent an editor such as Sander Sade using this as a reason to report me to AE; this is something that does occur and is a problem. It is wrong that editors get to effectively "topic" or "article" ban myself through using an interaction ban as a weapon.
* all but accuses me and another editor of sockpuppetry. This is a demonstration of bad faith against both me and Fuseau, and it is an accusation that is without basis nor evidence, and for which I have no right of reply except for this request. The accusation is also highly problematic because Fuseau is doing a great job providing counter-arguments to editors on the article talk page, and Sander Sade is clearly trying to bait Fuseau, whilst also attacking myself after I have been evicted from the article by Sander's Sade invocation of the interaction ban.


====Statement by Toddy1====
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) :
This is another editor who appears to have pro-] (RSS) and pro-] (BJP) views. I dislike those views, but find it rather alarming that Misplaced Pages should seek to censor those views, but not the views of the political opponents. Imagine the outrage if we sought to topic-ban anyone who expressed pro-] views, but allowed ] to say whatever they liked.
<!-- Many arbitration remedies require a prior warning before sanctions may be imposed. Link to the warning here. -->
#Warned on by {{user|Thatcher131}}


A lot of pro-RSS/BJP editors turn out to be sock-puppets, so please can we do a checkuser on this account. And to be even-handed, why not checkuser NXcrypto too.
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
<!-- Add any further comment here -->
I am requesting that Sander Sade be given an analogous interaction ban as has been placed on me at ]. i.e.


If we want to talk about ] when editors make mistakes, look at the diff given by NXcrypto for "Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested" - it is the wrong diff. He/she did notify PerspicazHistorian - but the correct diff is .
''Sander Sade is prohibited from commenting on or unnecessarily interacting with Russavia, except in the case of necessary dispute resolution.''


A topic ban from Indian topics would be unhelpful, unless given to both parties. Misplaced Pages is meant to be a mainstream encyclopaedia, and BJP and RSS are mainstream in India. Loading the dice against BJP and RSS editors will turn Misplaced Pages into a fringe encyclopaedia on Indian topics.
Only then am I going to be able to return to the article talk page and continue to engage in content discussion.


I can see a good case for restricting PerspicazHistorian to draft articles and talk pages for a month, and suggesting that he/she seeks advice from more experienced editors. Another solution would be a one-revert rule to last six months.<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">--] ]</span> 13:55, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
I am also , because I would like specific input from Carcharoth on this suggestion of theirs, and whether my actions and Sander Sade's actions on the talk page are within the spirit of their suggestion. This is particularly important because the Arbcom themselves have stated many times in the past that interaction bans are never supposed to prevent creation of content, and creation of content requires discussion. It is impossible to engage in article creation/expansion/etc when editors are being sidelined by nefarious use of an interaction ban when that was never the intent of the ban in the first place.


====Statement by Capitals00====
I am only presenting evidence relating to myself, other editors may have problematic edits from Sander Sade which need looking at too. I will also leave it up to admins to see if any further sanction may be required for what is clear battleground behaviour by Sander Sade. The issue of Eastern European topics being an editorial battleground is a long fraught problem.
I find the comment from {{U|Toddy1}} to be entirely outrageous. What are you trying to tell by saying "{{tq|Misplaced Pages is meant to be a mainstream encyclopaedia, and BJP and RSS are mainstream in India}}"? If you want us to entertain those who are in power, then we could never have an article like ].


You cannot ask topic ban for both editors without having any evidence of misconduct. Same way, you cannot ask CU on either user ]. It is a high time that you should strike your comment, since you are falsely accusing others that they "{{tq|seek to censor}}" this editor due to his "{{tq| pro-Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and pro-Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) views}}". You should strike your comment. If you cannot do that, then I am sure ] is coming for you. ] (]) 15:20, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request, and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->
* Sander Sade informed
* I have notified Fuseau of this discussion also as a courtesy


====Statement by Vanamonde93====
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
{{U|Toddy1}}: I, too, am baffled by your comment. We don't ban editors based on their POV; but we do ban editors who fail to follow our PAGs, and we certainly don't make excuses for editors who fail to follow our guidelines based on their POV. You seem to be suggesting we cut PH some slack because of their political position, and I find that deeply inappropriate. Among other things, I don't believe they have publicly stated anywhere that they support the BJP or the RSS, and we cannot make assumptions about them.


That said, the fact that this was still open prompted me to spot-check PH's contributions, and I find a lot to be concerned about. is from 29 December, and appears to be entirely original research; I cannot access all of the sources, but snippet search does not bear out the content added, and the Raj era source for the first sentence certainly does not support the content it was used for. ], entirely authored by PH, is full of puffery ({{tq|"first to sacrifice his life for the cause of Swarajya"}}, and poor sources (like , and , whose blurb I leave you to judge), from which most of the article appears to be drawn. ], also entirely authored by PH, has original research in its very first sentence; the sources that I can access give passing mention to people whose names include the suffix "appa", and thus could perhaps be examples of usage, but the sources most certainly do not bear out the claim.
===Discussion concerning Sander Säde===


I will note in fairness that I cannot access all the sources for the content I checked. But after spotchecking a dozen examples I have yet to find content PH wrote that was borne out by a reliable source, so I believe skepticism is justified. We are in territory where other editors may need to spend days cleaning up some of this writing. {{U|Bishonen}} If we're in CIR territory, just a normal indefinite block seems cleanest, surely? Or were you hoping that PH would help clean up their mess, perhaps by providing quotes from sources? That could be a pathway to contributing productively, but I'm not holding my breath. ] (]) 18:00, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
====Statement by Sander Säde====
Sigh. How badly it is possible to misconstrue what happened?


:Thanks Bish: I agree, as my exchanges with PH today, in response to my first post here, have not inspired confidence. . ] (]) 20:22, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
* "Also, Russavia, isn't your interaction ban still active?" was me asking in good faith if the interaction ban is still active or not - as otherwise we might have yet another enforcement request which ends with Russavia getting an addition to his/her extensive block log. I really would rather not have yet another such episode of wikidrama. I know there was an ArbCom case to remove the interaction bans, supported by all Russavia, Nug and Vecrumba, but as I usually don't follow ArbCom cases, I have no idea if the interaction bans were lifted or not.


====Statement by UtherSRG====
* "Sander Sade all but accuses me and another editor of sockpuppetry". Uh?! I think the diff shows rather clearly I am saying that I ''don't'' think Russavia and Fuseau are the same person - what I am saying is that I haven't seen a scholarly source presented by Fuseau. Having just re-read the whole section, I still cannot find a any scholarly sources whatsoever from Fuseau. Can you please provide the diff with the source, as I might have just missed it completely?
I've mostly dealt with PH around ]. They do not seem to have the ability to read and understand our policies and processes. As such, a t-ban is too weak. The minimum I would support is a p-block as suggested below, though a full indef is also acceptable. They could then ask for the ] when they can demonstrate they no longer have ] issues. - ] ] 20:05, 30 December 2024 (UTC)


:Based on , I'm more strongly leaning towards indef. - ] ] 12:27, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
I don't mind the interaction ban. I usually don't edit the same pages as Russavia, so it would have a very little effect. I was hoping to get help from Russavia with an article about a historian ], but perhaps there is someone else who could help?
::They now indicate they believe the article they edited was copied from one of the websites they used as a reference, when in reality the website is a mirror/scrape of the Misplaced Pages article. I believe we are firmly in ] territory here. - ] ] 14:25, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
:--] 14:43, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
::: is a mirror of the Misplaced Pages article. - ] ] 16:29, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
@Fuseau: an article by ] on a random webpage as a scholarly source? I hope it is just a really tasteless joke. Can you at least show me how that article passed peer review and is published by a reputable scientific source? --] 17:36, 20 January 2012 (UTC)


====Comments by others about the request concerning Sander Säde==== ===Result concerning PerspicazHistorian ===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''


{{u|PerspicazHistorian}}, can you explain your understanding of ] and the ] rule? I'd like you to read thoroughly enough to also explain wny someone may be edit warring ''even if they aren't breaking 3RR''. ] (]) 21:58, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
=====Comment by Vecrumba =====
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
I strongly urge that interaction bans in the Baltic/EE/Soviet legacy space be lifted, as they have been interpreted consistently as meaning something other than (mutually) "'''editor A discussing editor B and <u>not</u> their edits'''" and other than "'''editor A contacting editor B on their talk page'''"—which is <u>'''only'''</u> what they should be. And even there, editor A should be able to address editor B with regard to the <u>'''content'''</u> of an edit at an article where both are active, and to revert or change each other's edits, as in any other content-based interaction.<p>Either vacate all the bans or interpret interaction bans in a manner which promotes collegial and cooperative conduct between the parties involved. ]<small> ►]</small> 15:42, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
:@], that explanation of edit warring is a bit wanting. An edit war is when two or more editors revert content additions/removals repeatedly. Even a second reversion by the same editor can be considered edit warring. Best practice -- and what I highly recommend, especially for any inexperienced editor -- is ''the first time'' someone reverts an edit of yours, go to the talk page, open a section, ping the editor who reverted you, and discuss. Do you think you can commit to that?
=====Comment by Fuseau=====
:<small>Re: your question on why your "obvious edit" was reverted: we don't deal with content issues here, only with behavior issues, but from a very quick look, the source is 50 years old, and using a list headed "TERRORIST ORGANISATIONS LISTED IN THE FIRST SCHEDULE OF THE UNLAWFUL ACTIVITIES (PREVENTION) ACT, 1967" that includes a certain organization as a source that the organization should be described as a terrorist organization is ]; in their ] NXcrypto provided an edit summary of "Not a reliable source for such a contentious label. See WP:LABEL." Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here.</small> ] (]) 11:28, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
. I hope he doesn't dispute that a of ] shows the author to be a scholar.--] (]) 17:08, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
::I'm seeing this as a CIR issue. I'd like input from other admins, if possible. I'm a little concerned that setting a tban from IPA is just setting a trap. Maybe a p-block from article space would be a kinder way to allow them to gain some experience? ] (]) 13:28, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
:This is a content dispute. Many politicians have doctoral degrees, and politicians are by definition politically biased. --] (]) 20:29, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
:::@], have you seen how many times I or others have had to move your comments to your own section? This is an example of not having enough experience to edit productively. Please do not post in anyone else's section again. ] (]) 16:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
::::I do agree we're in CIR territory, and the concerns expressed are completely valid. I don't think this editor is ill-intentioned. They just don't seem very motivated to learn quickly. Well-intentioned-but-a-slow-learner is something that can only be fixed by actually practicing what you're bad at. I'd prefer an indef from article space which gives them one more chance to learn here before we send them off to mr.wiki or Simple English to try to learn. Not a hill I'm going to die on, though. ] (]) 11:36, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::@], like Uther I have major concerns about the edit you made yesterday, which included replacing a citation needed tag with these sources.<ref>{{Cite web |title=Significance of Different Type of Prasad in Hinduism For God |url=https://www.ganeshaspeaks.com/predictions/astrology/prasad-food-for-god/ |access-date=2024-12-30 |website=GaneshaSpeaks |language=en-GB}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=What Is Prashad |url=https://www.swaminarayan.faith/articles/what-is-prashad |access-date=2024-12-30 |website=Shree Swaminarayan Mandir Bhuj |language=en}}</ref> The first is a company that markets astrology services. The second is the site for a religious sect. Neither is a reliable source for explaining the concept of prasada in Wikivoice. You made this edit ''yesterday'', after you'd confirmed here and on my talk that you understood sourcing policy.
:::::The reason for an indef from article space is to allow you to learn this policy: You would go into article talk and suggest sources to fix citation needed tags. Another editor would have to agree with you that the sources are reliable before they'd add them. ] (]) 12:51, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
*A tban from IPA for PerspicazHistorian would be a relief to many editors trying to keep this difficult area in reasonable shape. However, Valereee makes a good point about 'setting a trap': it's doubtful that PH would be able to keep to a tban even if they tried in good faith. I would therefore support a p-block from article space. ] &#124; ] 16:48, 29 December 2024 (UTC).
*:{{u|Vanamonde93}}, no, I don't really think PH can usefully help clean up their mess; I was following Valereee, who has been going into this in some depth, in attempting to keep some way of editing Misplaced Pages open for PH. It's a bit of a counsel of desperation, though; there is very little daylight between an indef and a p-block from article space. Yes, we ''are'' in CIR territory; just look at PH's ] for NXcrypto being "engaged in edit wars before on contentious Indian topics": one diff of an opponent complaining on NXcrypto's page, and one diff of somebody reverting NXcrypto. What do those actually prove? That NXcrypto has opponents (big surprise). So, yes, as you suggest, I'll support an indef as well. ] &#124; ] 20:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC).


*<!--
=====Comment by Nug=====
-->
I see no issue with any of Sander Säde's talk page comments. I also note that Sander is not subject to any interaction ban, and there is no reason for one to be imposed as he does not have a history of submitting vexatious AE reports as a way of winning content disputes or perpetuating past conflicts. --] (]) 19:47, 20 January 2012 (UTC)


{{reflist talk}}
=====Comment by Greyhood=====
In the discussion in question, Sander Säde has made . Supposedly it indicates that only fringe elements in Russian society (''"Russian ultranationalists, skinheads and conspiracy theorists"'') would disagree with ] (an organisation ] by many countries and respectable persons, including ]), or that me or perhaps other participants of the discussion are representing or supporting the views of those fringe elements in Russian society. This is could be a violation of ]. ] ] 20:47, 20 January 2012 (UTC)


==Walter Tau==
=====Comment by Estlandia=====
{{hat|Consensus to indefinitely block Walter Tau. ] (] • she/her) 22:11, 31 December 2024 (UTC)}}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


===Request concerning Walter Tau===
Right now I don't see a reason to admonish one side (Sander Säde). It is just a discussion regarding a content dispute. It looks like one side tries to circumvent the discussion and enforce their view by gaining administrative sanctions against their opponents - which seems unlikely to happen. I don't know if Russavia's interaction ban is still alive or is applicable in this case, but the diff he doesn't show any violation of wiki policies. How did Sander's question violate any policy? Neither does this reveal actual accusations of sock puppetry. In sum, there is nothing that warrants sanctioning the party reported here. ] ] 10:59, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Bobby Cohn}} 20:51, 24 December 2024 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Walter Tau}}<p>{{ds/log|Walter Tau}}</p>
=====Comment by The Devil's Advocate=====
Seems to me like Russavia is using this AE request as a backdoor to amending the Arbitration case, by violating the restriction he wants to amend. It stretches credulity to accept Russavia's argument that he was not talking to Sander Sade in . His comment is immediately after Sander's and is plainly responding to Sander's comments. This is clearly an interaction and thus a violation. If he objects to the sanction Russavia should be presenting this at Requests for Amendment or filing an appeal. Violating it and then using an editor's reaction to that violation as cause for incrementally implementing the desired change by requesting that admins impose an interaction ban is disruptive. More to the point, having a one-way interaction ban made into a mutual interaction ban is a common-sense amendment that I think most admins would support. There is no good reason to piggyback off an AE request to achieve it and doing so just seems like an effort to ].--] (]) 19:10, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
===Result concerning Sander Säde===
<!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.-->
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
* The diffs presented in this case are in my opinion not sufficient to establish conduct that warrants sanction. I would be inclined to close this case without any action than a general whack on the head on all involved to start valuing neutrality over nationality and refraining from continuing to lob potshots at each other. (The participants, being veterans at this, are no doubt used to such admonishments however). <strong>]<small>•]</small></strong> 20:55, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
*Speaking only of the particular comment that prompted this AE thread, I would say that it does not, in and of itself, justify a sanction, but it is unnecessarily hostile and combative, and not to the standard we should be expecting of any editor, much less those involved in contentious areas subject to arbitration remedies. I recommend Sander Säde be admonished not to unnecessarily comment on editors with whom he disagrees, and Russavia in particular. I would also remind him that repeatedly side-tracking discussions to talk about editors with whom he disagrees may result in sanctions. ] &#124; ] 05:28, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
# Creation (and subsequent editing and AfC submission) of ]. See it's page history, there's no need to supply the entirety of the diffs here.
#* For context on how this subject falls under the purview, see the context given by the news article as shared on the talk page: Russia using adoption of Ukranian children during the Russo-Ukranian war.<ref>{{cite news |last1=Bruce |first1=Camdyn |title=Ukrainian official rips Russia for 'kidnapping' more than 13,000 children |url=https://thehill.com/policy/international/3775681-ukrainian-official-rips-russia-for-kidnapping-more-than-13000-children/ |work=The Hill |date=14 December 2022}}</ref> Then note how this state program directly discusses adoption support, which was adapted by Putin following the start of the war. A citation given in the draft article.<ref>{{cite news |title=Путин подписал закон, уточняющий условия выплаты материнского капитала |url=https://www.interfax.ru/russia/937864 |work=interfax.ru|trans-title=Putin signs law clarifying conditions for payment of maternity capital}}</ref> The version specifically notes the changes "At the same time, residents of the '''''new regions''''' will receive maternity capital '''''regardless of the basis and timing of their acquisition of Russian citizenship'''''" (emphasis mine).
#:This draft, as it is written, is extremely promotional in areas and could basically be hosted on a state-sponsored website. Given the context, I believe this falls under the topic ban.
{{reflist-talk}}


; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
==SonofSetanta==
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.''
# Notice given by {{admin|Rosguill}} that they were now subject to an arbitration enforcement sanction
# Blocked by {{admin|Swatjester}} for violating the sanction based on the edits to a project page.


;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
===Request concerning SonofSetanta===
<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. -->
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : <font face="Celtic">]<sub>'']''</sub></font> 13:51, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
*Has been made aware, see the diffs in the above section.
*Alerted about contentious topics as it applies to this specific draft, on by {{admin|Asilvering}}, given a warning about this specific draft and how it falls under the above purview.


; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|SonofSetanta}}
<!-- Add any further comment here -->
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
It has been repeatedly pointed out to Walter Tau that they are skirting the line of the their topic ban by specifically not mentioning the "elephant in the room", see the diff by Asilvering above. They have also repeatedly chosen to ignore advice that they stop editing in the subject area and have repeatedly claimed to fail to see how their editing is problematic. As such, I have opened this discussion here so as to get an answer for Walter Tau on their editing, see They claim to continuously be unaware of the ban, see also their talk page discussions.


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
Notified .


<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> <!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


===Discussion concerning Walter Tau===
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. -->
# Revert 1
# Revert 2, within 24 hours of revert 1 thus breaking the 1RR ruke


====Statement by Walter Tau====
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) :
I feel, that the decision by ] regarding my draft https://en.wikipedia.org/Draft:Maternity_capital, is "arbitrary and capriciuos" to use US legal terms : ], for the following reasons:
<!-- Many arbitration remedies require a prior warning before sanctions may be imposed. Link to the warning here. -->
Not needed, been blocked twice for breaching this sanction, including a one week block which expired only days ago.


1) nowhere my draft mentions the words "Ukraine" or "Ukrainian".
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
<!-- Add any further comment here -->
SonofSetanta has previously been blocked by a report at ] for edit warring over content including the piece of text he just added back, as can be seen at , and . The original wording was:
<blockquote>George Lapsley, a World War Two veteran (as can be seen by the decorations he wears) who had been a Troop Commander in the Coleraine Battery of the Territorial Army. His occupation was as the headmaster of a local primary school. With his previous military experience he was deemed fit to command and was appointed as Company Commander, E Coy, 5 UDR in Coleraine.</blockquote>


2) this draft ] is a translation of the original Russian wiki- article : https://ru.wikipedia.org/%D0%9C%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BB . I have heard the argument, that different languages in Misplaced Pages use different standards for articles' notability etc. Can someone please provide a web-link to Misplaced Pages rules, that actually confirms, that different standards for different languages is the currently accepted policy. I have been unable to find such statement.
The current wording (exlucind the irrelevant Major, just as I excluded the irrelevant prefix text in the original version) is:
<blockquote>George Lapsley from St Jonston in County Donegal was a World War Two veteran who had been a Troop Commander in the Coleraine Battery of the Territorial Army. His occupation was headmaster of a local primary school. With his previous military experience he was given command of E Coy, 5 UDR in Coleraine</blockquote>


3) In fact, my draft focuses mostly on the policies before 24 February 2022, i.e. before full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine.
Pretty much word for word the same, and since it's the same editor there can't be any disupute he knew it had been in the article before. <font face="Celtic">]<sub>'']''</sub></font> 13:51, 24 January 2012 (UTC)


4) Please correct me, if I am wrong, by it seems that ]'s only argument of my ban violation is the following statement in my draft of ].
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
"Residents of new regions are paid maternity capital regardless of the time and basis for obtaining Russian citizenship." In my defense: I did not write that statement- it is a Google translation from the Russian wiki, actually a small part of the translated text. And with all honesty, when I was reading the translated text, it did not cross my mind, that someone may interpret so broadly. Also, this sentence-in-question does not really add much to the main subject to the article, and I do not object to its deletion.
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request, and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->


5) Considering, that
a) I did not write, but only translated the text-in-question;
b) the relevance to the text-in-question to my topic ban is not apparent, particularly in the larger context of the whole article;
c) I do not object deleting the text-in-question from the draft;
may I suggest changing the draft to fix this controversy?


6) If there are other controversial sections/sentences in my translated draft, it may be better if someone re-writes them. Most wiki-readers, can agree with a statement, that this draft ] may not reach an "Article of the Day" status, but it has a value as a stand-alone article as well as a source of references (more-to-be-added).
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
] (]) 13:45, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
===Discussion concerning SonofSetanta===


I can see now, why some editors consider the translated addition, that I made, a violation of my ban on editing Russia-Ukraine topic. It was not my intention. I fact, I agree with the deletion of the questionable sentence "Residents of new regions are paid maternity capital regardless of the time and basis for obtaining Russian citizenship.". At the same time, I would like to keep the rest of draft, so that myself and other keep working on getting it published. Do I understand correctly, that the notability of this topic is not being questioned?
====Statement by SonofSetanta====


====Statement by TylerBurden====
====Comments by others about the request concerning SonofSetanta====
Walter Tau doesn't seem to think they have done anything wrong on Misplaced Pages, so it's honestly not surprising to see them continuing to push the limit despite the sanctions they have received. At some point you have to wonder if there is a foundational ] or trolling (or a combination of both) issue. Either way, yes they are clearly violating their topic ban by writing about the Russian kidnapping of Ukrainian children from the war, because that is what this whole ″adoption″ thing is. --] (]) 17:22, 25 December 2024 (UTC)


====Statement by (username)====
===Result concerning SonofSetanta===
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->
<!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.-->

:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''
===Result concerning Walter Tau===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*Sidestepping for now the question of whether simply not mentioning anything conflict-related would have been enough to avoid a TBAN violation, the references to "new regions" make this a violation much more straightforwardly. Justice is blind but not stupid. Walter, I think we're going to need to see recognition from you that this was a TBAN violation, if we're going to find a good path forward here. I'd also like to know who you are referring to when you reference other editors working on the draft? ] has made some gnomish edits but you appear to be the only substantive editor. And why are you implying, on Bobby's talk, that y'all have been corresponding by email, when he denies that? <span style="font-family:courier"> -- ]</span><sup class="nowrap">&#91;]]</sup> <small>(])</small> 22:29, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
*I'll be direct: I think Walter knows what he is doing and has no intention of abiding by his TBAN, , and I don't think we should be wasting further time here when we're almost certainly going to be right back here again within a few weeks. ]] <small><sup>Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat!</sup></small> 05:29, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
*Back off a one week block for violating the topic ban, and already violating it again? (The "new regions" material is unquestionably a violation.) It seems that Walter Tau is either unwilling or unable to abide by the restriction, and does not, even after explanation, understand any of the issues here (or even understand something so simple as that different language Wikipedias are independent from one another and each have their own policies and practices). Given that, I don't see anything to be done here except to indef. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 17:45, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
* I am 48 hours early to the party, but I would support an indef here --] <sup>]</sup> 16:43, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
*:{{yo|Tamzin|Swatjester}} Planning to close this one, since it's been a week – any closing thoughts on the remedy? ] (] • she/her) 16:31, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Seems like everyone responding so far is aligned w/ an indef, which I'd support. ]] <small><sup>Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat!</sup></small> 21:16, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
{{hab}}

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    Ethiopian Epic

    Topic banned from Yasuke --Guerillero 19:53, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Ethiopian Epic

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Tinynanorobots (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 11:23, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Ethiopian Epic (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Yasuke
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. November 14th created during the Yasuke case and went active when it ended. First 11 edits were to Government of Japan. In one case three edits were used to write one sentence.
    2. November 12 Manually reverted the lead back to how it was in September.
    3. November 16 Falsely Claimed cited material was OR. (G
    4. November 24 Falsely Claimed cited material was unsourced
    5. November 24 It took an ANI report to get him to use the article talk page. His defense was accusations and denial.
    6. November 23 He reverted to a version that went against consensus established on the talk page and contained a falsely sourced quote.
    7. November 25 Engages in sealioning
    8. November 29 Removes a well sourced line from Yasuke as well as reverted an edit that was the result of BRD. He has now started disputes with me on all three Yasuke related articles.
    9. November 30 starts disputing a new section of
    10. December 2 Brought again to ANI, he claims that I didn't get consensus for changes, even though I had discussed them on talk prior to making them.
    11. December 4 He keeps mentioning ONUS, and asking me to discuss it, in response to me discussing.
    12. December 9 Used a non-controversial revert to hide his edit warring.
    13. December 11 did the same thing on List of foreign-born samurai in Japan.
    14. December 11 He also repeatedly complains that he doesn't like the definition because it is vague and claims that his preferred version is "status quo"
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    1. Date Explanation
    2. Date Explanation
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    [
    • Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on December 1 (see the system log linked to above).


    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    I have decided that Misplaced Pages is not worth my time. I want to write about history, not get caught up in wikipolitics and intrigue. There are systematic problems with wikipedia, where it is difficult to come to a conclusion to a discussion and openness is discouraged. Seeking help or advice with an issue opens one to the accusation of forum shopping or canavassing. One is expected to be perfect, but it is unclear what perfect is. Admins complain that a recall petition that lasts more than seven days is cruel, but drag out ArbCom processes and ignore AE threads for days. This whole process has been miserable. Tinynanorobots (talk) 16:35, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Discussion concerning Ethiopian Epic

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Ethiopian Epic

    This is clear retaliatory filing because I recently didn't agree with Tinynanorobot's edits against RFC consensus, and because I made talk page sections on some recent edits.

    @Eronymous That's not true and you are a very obvious alt account with only 26 edits. No one gave you a notification of this discussion and it's not on the Yasuke talk page. This suggests you are the sock puppet of someone here. Your post is also misleading and incorrect it wasn't an insertion. The line you are talking about in Samurai has been there for over 10 years and is normal. I know because I've read it before. Here is a version from 2017 that still has it. I don't understand why you are misrepresenting edits and using an alt account.

    @Red-tailed hawk I think he is just fishing. That's why he removed his IP claims. Even his other diffs are just mislabeled regular behavior. It's amusing because Eronymous is the likely alt of Tinynanorobots or someone posting here. I think the way Tinynanorobots edits against clear consensus, skips discussion, and then files frivolous ANI/AE reports with misleading narrative like above is disruptive. Discussion is an easy solution and benefits everyone. I hope he will respect RFC consensus.

    @Barkeep49: Tinynanorobot's recent "do-over" comment above is likely an attempt by him to hide the negative admin response to his own conduct and his fishing here. He shouldn't be able to remove the admin response to his report, so that he can do more fishing, before the admins even make their decision. It seems like gaming AE. He also recently disrupted the samurai talk page by hiding the comments of other users with a misleading edit summary.

    @Valereee I wasn't sure if it was drive-by vandalism by Tofflenheim (I don't have deep context but he is mentioned here by name) so I made sure to respect 1RR. I made a talk section I'll let other editors handle it. EEpic (talk) 22:29, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Relm

    I am largely unfamiliar with the account in question, but I do frequently check Yasuke. I believe that EthiopianEpic has displayed a clear slant and battleground mindset in their editing in regards to the topic of Yasuke, but that their conduct on the Yasuke page itself so far has generally been in the ballpark of good faith edits. The revert on December 9th was justified, and their topic on November 29th is well within bounds (though I acknowledge that the background of their prior disputes on other pages with Tinynanorobots shows it may be edit warring) given that the two things being reverted was a change that seemed to skirt the prior RFC with agreement being given in a very non-direct way, and the other portion being an addition which had not been discussed on the talk page prior to its implementation (though previous discussions ered on the side of not including it). I am not accusing Tinynanorobots of any misconduct in any part of that either.

    What I will note is that in addition to the sockpuppet IP allegations made by Tinynanorobots, I wanted to lodge that the posting style of EthiopianEpic, as well as their knowledge of much of the previous discussions on the page deep in the archive, led me to suspect that they were an alt of User:Symphony_Regalia. I never found anything conclusive. Relm (talk) 14:48, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Simonm223

    These two editors have been tangling at WP:AN/I repeatedly. Last time they came there I said that this would likely continue until a third party intervened. And then the thread got archived with no action (see AN/I thread here) so I'm not surprised that the two of them are still tangling. There is evidence that both editors have engaged in a slow-motion edit war. Both have claimed the other is editing against consensus. Here I will say that it appears TinyNanoRobots is more correct than Ethiopian Epic. Furthermore, while neither editors' comportment has been stellar, as other editors have pointed out, it appears more that EE is following TNR about and giving them a hard time than the alternate. . In the linked AN/I case (above) you'll note EE attempted a boomerang on TNR and was not well-received for the effort.

    Frankly my view is that both editors are not editing to the best standards of Misplaced Pages but there is definitely a more disruptive member of this duo and that is Ethiopian Epic. I think it would probably cut down on the noise considerably if they were encouraged to find somewhere to edit which was not a CTOP subject and if they were encouraged to leave TNR alone. Simonm223 (talk) 18:05, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Eronymous

    Similar to Relm I check on the Yasuke page every so often, and it seems very likely given the evidence that User:Ethiopian Epic is an alt of User:Symphony_Regalia created to evade his recent ArbCom sanctions, having started editing the day prior to the Yasuke case closure. Of note to this is the last edit of Symphony_Regalia on Samurai was him attempting to insert the line "who served as retainers to lords (including daimyo)" - curiously enough, Ethiopian Epic's first edit on Samurai (and first large edit, having just prior made 11 minor ones in a short timeframe to reach autoconfirmed status) is him attempting to insert the same controversial line that was reverted before.

    Symphony_Regalia has a history of utilising socks to edit Yasuke/Samurai related topics and is indefinitely blocked from the .jp wiki for extensive sockpuppetry (plus multiple suspected IPs) for this.

    Prior to being sanctioned Symphony Regalia frequently got into exactly the same arguments concerning wording/source material with User:Tinynanorobots that Ethiopian Epic is now. One could assume based on their relationship that he is aggrieved that Tinynanorobots was not sanctioned by ArbCom during the case and is now continuously feuding with him to change that through edit warring and multiple administrator incidents/arbitration requests in the past few weeks. Eronymous (talk) 22:31, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Nil Einne

    I was ?one of the editors who suggested Tinynanorobots consider ARE in the future. I did this mostly because after three threads on ANI with no result, I felt a change of venue might be more productive especially since the more structured nature of ARE, as well as a likely greater concern over low level of misconduct meant that some outcome was more likely. (For clarity, when I suggested this I did feel nothing would happen from the third ANI thread but in any case my advice being taken onboard would likely mean the third thread had no result.) I did try to make clear that I wasn't saying there was definitely a problem requiring sanction and also it was possible Tinynanorobots might themselves end up sanctioned. Since a topic ban on both is being considered, I might have been right in a way. If a topic ban results, I'd like to suggest admins considered some guidance beyond broadly constructed on how any topic ban would apply. While the entirety of the Yasuke article and the list of foreign born samurai stuff seem clear enough, one concern I've had at ANI is how to handle the editing at Samurai and its talk page. A lot of the recent stuff involving these editors seems to relate to the definition of samurai. AFAIK, this is generally been a big part of the dispute of Yasuke (he can/can't be a samurai because it means A which was/wasn't true about him). Nil Einne (talk) 12:42, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

    Result concerning Ethiopian Epic

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • I've never been very impressed with retaliatory filings, and the one below is no exception. I will also note that I'm never too impressed with "must be a sock" type accusations—either file at SPI or don't. In this case, though, I think Yasuke would be better off if neither of these two were participating there. Seraphimblade 19:33, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
      Red-tailed hawk, what are your thoughts after the responses to you? Seraphimblade 16:18, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
      I think that it would be declined if it were an WP:SPI report and the editor should be mindful not to throw sock accusations around willy-nilly going forward. But I typically don't see any sort of sanction imposed when someone makes a bad SPI report, particularly if they're newer or aren't quite clueful yet. So I don't see much to do on that front other than tell them that we need more specific evidence of socking when reports are made than merely shared interest, particularly when the IPs are scattered across the world. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 02:24, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
      I'm still inclined to topic ban both these editors from Yasuke, but would be interested in hearing more thoughts on that if anyone has them. Seraphimblade 07:10, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
    • I also generally don't like "might-be-a-sock"-style accusations; when we are accusing someone of sockpuppetry by logged out editing we typically need evidence to substantiate it rather than just floating the possibility in a flimsy way. Filer has provided several diffs above as possible socks, but each of those IPs geolocates to a different country (Germany, Norway, and Argentina respectively) and I don't see evidence that any of those IPs are proxies.@Tinynanorobots: Can you explain what led you to note the IP edits? Is it merely shared interest and viewpoint, or is there something more?— Red-tailed hawk (nest) 02:01, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Looking at this .... mess... first, I'm not sure what actually was against the ArbCom decision - I don't see a 1RR violation being alleged, and the rest really appears to me to be "throw stuff at the wall and see if it sticks". But, like Seraphimblade, I'm not impressed with either of these editors actual conduct here or in general. I could be brought around to supporting a topic ban for both of these editors in the interests of clearing up the whole topic area. Ealdgyth (talk) 14:33, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
      • @Ealdgyth: I'm concerned that EthiopianEpic is gaming 1RR/slow edit-warring – for the past few days, they've been waiting until just over 24 hours have passed since their last revert on Yasuke in order to make another one that restores their preferred POV, citing the same old arguments. See reverts on December 26, 27, and 28. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 17:21, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
        I agree that's gaming 1RR. I'm tempted to block as an individual action at this point, separate from the AE complaint. @Ethiopian Epic, please before editing again explain why you are continuing to edit war while there's an AE case open? Valereee (talk) 17:50, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
        I'm good with a topic ban from the subject area for EE - for the gaming when their conduct is being scrutinized for edit warring. I'll reply below about Tiny ... (sorry for the delay, hubby is home so I have spouse-aggro (in gaming terms)) Ealdgyth (talk) 16:19, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
    • @Tinynanorobots: you are well above the 500 word limit. Please request an extension before adding anything more. Barkeep49 (talk) 16:18, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
    • I enacted the rough consensus to topic ban --Guerillero 19:53, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

    Tinynanorobots

    Topic banned from Yasuke --Guerillero 19:53, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Tinynanorobots

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    EEpic (talk) 19:14, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Tinynanorobots (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Yasuke
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 09:21, 14 November 2024. Tinynanorobots removes As a samurai from the lead text and replaces it with signifying bushi status against RFC consensus (There exists a consensus to refer to Yasuke as a samurai without qualification).
    2. 17:12, 15 November 2024. Tinynanorobots removes who served as a samurai from the lead text and adds who became a bushi or samurai against RFC consensus (There exists a consensus against presenting Yasuke's samurai status as the object of debate).
    3. 12:43, 20 November 2024. On List of Foreign-born Samurai, Tinynanorobots removes the longstanding definition and adds This list includes persons who ... may not have been considered a samurai against RFC consensus (There exists a consensus against presenting Yasuke's samurai status as the object of debate).
    4. 07:48, 23 November 2024. Tinynanorobots reverts to remove As a samurai in the Yasuke article after Gitz6666 opposes at , again ignoring WP:ONUS.
    5. 03:13, 4 December 2024. I restore and start a talk page discussion so that consensus can be formed.
    6. 14:10, 6 December 2024 . Tinynanorobots, when consensus fails to form for his position, becomes uncivil and engages in a sarcastic personal attack What you are saying doesn't make sense. Perhaps there is a language issue here. Maybe your native language handles the future differently than English?
    7. 14:22, 11 December 2024. Tinynanorobots removes "As a samurai" again, ignoring WP:ONUS and BRD even though no consensus has formed for his position, and no consensus has formed to change existing consensus.
    8. 08:37, 6 December 2024. Tinynanorobots explains their reasons, I don't know if samurai is the right term which is against consensus.
    9. 07:27, 28 November 2024. POV-pushing - With no edit summary Tinynanorobots tag bombs by adding Slavery in Japan.
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    1. Date Explanation
    2. Date Explanation
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    Tinynanorobots frequently edits against consensus, restores his edits when others revert, doesn't wait for consensus, and engages in feuding behavior. He seems to think WP:BRD or WP:ONUS don't apply to him which is disruptive, and I don't know why.

    Unaccounted removals of sources 23:44, 14 September 2024 - Warning from other editor about repeated removal of content when multiple users are objecting.

    AGF 12:21, 15 September 2024 - Warning from yet another editor about not assuming good faith and making personal attacks.

    It seems to be chronic which suggests behavior problems. Tinynanorobots frequently fails to assume good faith in others. I don't know why as I don't have any issues with him.

    Their preferred edit for Yasuke against the RFC consensus is now still in the lead section.

    @Relm Sorry for the confusion. I think we talking about different edits, so I'll adjust that part. I am referring to Tinynanorobot's repeated removal of As a samurai against RFC consensus, which states There exists a consensus to refer to Yasuke as a samurai without qualification.

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    18:40, 12 December 2024

    Discussion concerning Tinynanorobots

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Tinynanorobots

    The accusations made by EE are so misleading as to be evidence against him. Most of what he is discussing is in reference to a successful BRD. I actually discussed the bold edit first on the talk, but didn't get much of a response. I decided a bold edit would get more feedback. The edits were reverted and then discussed. Gitz's main problem was OR, not a RfC violation. This was because he didn't read the cited source. Anyway, since Atkin says "signifying bushi status", I have no objection to restoring this text.

    I never used any sarcasm, I know that some languages handle how they talk about time differently. It seems reasonable that a translation error could be the reason for EE asking me not to change the article, althoug my edit had already been restored by someone else and at the same time asking me to discuss that I had already discussed and was already discussing. I am disappointed that EE didn't point out that he felt attacked, so that I could apologize.

    This was written in response to another user, and the whole thought is I don't know if samurai is the right term. It is the term a fair amount of sources use, and the one that the RfC says should be used. It is also consistent with common usage in reference to other historical figures. In fact earlier in that post I said this: I am not qualified to say whither or not Yasuke having a house meant that he was a samurai This is blatantly taking a quote out of context in order to prejudice the Admins against me.

    @User:Ealdgyth I filed here, because the last time I filed at ANI it was suggested that I bring things here if things continue by an Admin. I try to follow advice, although I keep getting conflicting signals from Admins. I am most concerned that you find my work on Samurai and List of Foreign-born Samurai in Japan not adding anything helpful. My suggestion to rewrite the way samurai was defined on the List in order to reduce OR and bring it in line with WP:LSC was meant with unanimous approval by those who responded. Samurai is a high importance article that has tags on it from years back, is unorganized and contains outdated information. I am not the best writer, but I have gotten some books, and am pretty much the only one working on it.
    I just thought that the Admins here should know about the ongoing SPI

    @theleekycauldron Thank you for giving a reason, I think there is a misunderstanding though.

    On Nov 14th I removed as a samurai and added signifying bushi status which better matched the sources. Also, not every samurai received a house or sword. Especially receieving a house is an important indicator of Yasuke's rank.
    On Nov 15th it was removed by Blockhaj On the same day Gitz posted on the talk However, I agree with this revert of Tinynanorobots's edit: sources say that the gift signifies samurai status (e.g., Lockley: "bestowing of warrior or “samurai” rank"); "bushi status" is an original research.
    On Nov 16th it was restored by Gitz
    On Nov 17th I explained that "bushi status was in the source, and therefore not OR. Gitz agreed writing Anyway, since Atkin says "signifying bushi status", I have no objection to restoring this text, although I suggest that "indicating warrior status" or "marking membership in the warrior class" would be easier to understand.
    On Nov 20th I changed it to "signifying samurai status"
    On Nov 29th EE reverted with the edit summary Corrections and fixes
    On Nov 30th I revert EE with the edit summary Reverts aren't explained and includes cited material and material that was discussed on the talk page. Please discuss on Talk page On the same day EE did a partial revert citing ONUS
    On Dec 1st User:City of Silver reverted EE saying when ee somehow avoided a well-earned block last time, it was *extremely*, *incredibly* obvious that sooner or later, they'd edit up attacking this exact article in this exact way, i.e., contentiously reverting an editor they're following around and badgering that editor to discuss while not doing so themself. they're really not getting the point
    On Dec 2nd EE started a new discussion on the topic EE begins by saying {{1. This edit was done without consensus. It looks like it was reverted by @Gitz6666 here, but it was silently restored here without any discussion.}} but also says can you follow WP:ONUS and seek consensus for these edits before re-adding them? Thank you. The second part is confusing, because at the time this was written, both of those edits were current. He was asking me not to re-add something that was re added by someone else and not yet removed. He has given the section the same title as the section where Gitz and I had our discussion. On the same day, I replied linking to my discussion with Gitz, pointing out that he had withdrawn his objection. EE responded saying I see thank you, however I checked the archives and the previous discussions says ""There exists a consensus to refer to Yasuke as a samurai without qualification"", and ""There exists a consensus against presenting Yasuke's samurai status as the object of debate"". So I think using "signifying samurai status" or "indicating status status" would be less in line with that consensus compared to the status quo text of "as a samurai". In light of that I would suggest getting consensus before adding this change. This confused me. He redirects my mention of my discussion with Gitz, into a discussion of the RfC, which he pretends he just discovered in the archive, and asks me again not to add something which is currently in the article to the article without discussing it, after I told him I did discuss it, and am trying to discuss it with him.
    This is when I wrote I am troubled that you keep implying that I haven't discussed these things on the talk before. I also believe you do not understand how consensus works. When someone makes a change, that is the consensus until someone challenges it. You are wanting to change the status quo. In this case I am using status quo to mean "the existing state of affairs" It was the current state of the article. It seemed that EE was both chatising me for making a change without discussion (the past) and asking me not to make that change (the future), but overlooking that I didn't need to make the change, and that I was trying to discuss with him(the present). It was all very confusing.
    On Dec 9th a few users made some edits that really went against consensus. EE reverted these edits, but also removed the edits that City of Silver had restored.
    After that I never restored "signifying samurai status". Unless I missed something, I only restored it once.
    The full line is He was granted a sword, a house and a stipend, indicating samurai status and I don't see how it can be against the RfC, the RfC says explicitly There exists no consensus on the inclusion of the following sentence, or similar, in the lead section of the article. "Historians believe this was the equivalent to "the bestowing of warrior or 'samurai' rank" during this period." The quote is from one of the sources, and my version should be less controversial considering the objections to including the quote. The quote is not only in the body, but also in a footnote in the lead.
    EE is the only person who beleives that it goes against the RfC, except for an IP It has been added by other users, and others have explictly said it doesn't go against RfC on both Talk:Yasuke and here.

    Tinynanorobots (talk) 15:07, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Relm

    I am the editor alluded to and quoted as 'protesting' Tinynanorobots edit. When I originally made that topic, I was fixing a different edit which left the first sentence as a grammatically incomplete sentence. When I looked at it in the editing view, one of the quotes in the citation beforehand was quoting Atkins Vera, and I mistook this for the opening quote having been changed. When I closed the editing menu I saw 'signifying samurai status' in the second paragraph and confused the two for each other as I had not noticed the addition of the latter phrase a little under a month ago. I realized my mistake almost immediately after I posted the new topic, and made this (1) edit to clarify my mistake while also attempting to instead direct the topic towards making sure that the edit recieved sufficient assent from Gitz (it did) and to talk about improvements that could be made to the opening sentence. I further clarified and made clear that I was not accusing Tinynanorobots of having done anything wrong in a later response (2).

    Though many of their earlier edits on the page may show some issues, as they grew more familiar with the past discussions I believe that Tinynanorobots has made valuable contributions to the page in good faith. Relm (talk) 03:21, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Barkeep49


    Statement by Gitz6666

    I don't see anything wrong either with Tinynanorobots's recent edits to Yasuke and related articles or those of Ethiopian Epic. The only troubling aspect is their difficulty in finding an agreement on relatively irrelevant issues or minutiae such as "As a samurai" vs "Signifying samurai status", which are not covered by the RfC consensus and are also difficult to understand. They shouldn't bring this stuff to AE and they'd better come to an agreement otherwise they risk being tbanned, which in my opinion would be a pity. Disengage disengage disengage, and move to more productive editing! Gitz (talk) (contribs) 22:39, 28 December 2024 (UTC)


    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Tinynanorobots

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • As above, I'm failing to see what exactly is against the ArbCom case rulings - I don't see a 1RR violation. But also as above, I'm coming to the view that neither of these editors are adding anything helpful to the topic area and am leaning towards a topic ban for both. Ealdgyth (talk) 14:35, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
      I tend to agree. The edits EE highlights are troubling, especially TNR's view that they can repeatedly make edits an RfC has already ruled out (1, revert, 2) because When someone makes a change, that is the consensus until someone challenges it. You are wanting to change the status quo. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 00:20, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
      That's been my position, and I've thus far seen no reason to change it. I would support topic banning both EE and Tinynanorobots from the Yasuke subject. Seraphimblade 00:32, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
      I concur. Topic banning both would hopefully help them learn to collaborate by editing somewhere where they are not so invested so that they can learn how to collaborately edit. Ealdgyth (talk) 16:21, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Unless an uninvolved admin objects within the next seven days or so, I will close as above (TBAN on Tinynanorobots and EthiopianEpic from Yasuke). Seraphimblade 20:05, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
    • I enacted the rough consensus --Guerillero 19:53, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

    Rasteem

    There does not seem to be an appetite to act here. Any admin can chat with Rasteem about any competence concerns in their personal capacity --Guerillero 20:00, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Rasteem

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    NXcrypto (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 03:06, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Rasteem (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    WP:ARBIPA
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 23:21 12 December 2024 - removed wikilink of an Indian railway station thus violating his topic ban from India and Pakistan.

    This violation comes after he was already warned for his first violation of the topic ban.

    Upon a closer look into his recent contribution, I found that he is simply WP:GAMING the system by creating articles like Arjan Lake which is overall only 5,400 bytes but he made nearly 50 edits here. This is clearly being done by Rasteem for passing the 500 edits mark to get his topic ban overturned.

    I recommend increasing the topic ban to indefinite duration. Nxcrypto Message 03:06, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    "topic banned from the subject of India and Pakistan, broadly construed, until both six months have elapsed and they have made 500 edits after being notified of this sanction."
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint
    • I agree that there are genuine CIR issues with Rasteem, for example while this ARE report is in progress they created Javan Lake, which has promotional statements like: "The lake's stunning caluts, majestic desert topographies, and serene lakes produce a shifting destination. Its unique charm attracts a wide range of guests, from adventure contenders to nature suckers and beyond". Nxcrypto Message 03:26, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
    • @Theleekycauldron: I hope you will review the complaint again. As Femke and Cullen328 puts, the issue is not only with the topic ban violations (for which he was already warned by Seraphimblade) but also the basic competence issues that include his grasp of English language. Rasteem's own response to this complaint that "a coordinated attack to abandon me from Misplaced Pages indefinitely" itself showcases his battleground mentality. I believe that the existing six-month topic ban should be increased to an indefinite period. Nxcrypto Message 03:37, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Discussion concerning Rasteem

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Rasteem

    This approach seems to be a coordinated attack to abandon me from Misplaced Pages indefinitely. Indeed, after my ban for 6 months. I was banned on 6 December, and in just 7 days, this report is literally an attempt to make me leave Misplaced Pages.

    1. I rolled back my own edit; it was last time made unintentionally. I was about to revert it, but my internet connection was lost, so when I logged in again, I regressed it.

    The internet is constantly slow and sometimes goes down. I live in a hilly location and I had formerly mentioned it.

    My edits on Arjan Lake isn't any WP:GAMING factual number of edits I made; it is 45, not 50. Indeed, I made similar edits before in September and December months on the same articles within a single day or 2-3 days.

    2. List of villages in Khoda Afarin on this article, I've added 5680 bytes & made 43 edits.

    3. List of villages in Tabriz on this article I've added 4000 bytes & made 49 edits.

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Rasteem

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • While I don't see a change in editing pattern that indicates gaming, the edits to Arjan Lake indicate issues with competence, as the article is weirdly promotional and contains phrases such as "beast species", "emotional 263 proved species". —Femke 🐦 (talk) 20:57, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Adding to Femke's point, magnific 70- cadence-high waterfalls in this area is not prose that inspires confidence in the editor's competence to edit the English Misplaced Pages. So, we have violations of a topic ban and questions about the editor's linguistic competence and performance. Perhaps an indefinite block appealable in six months with a recommendation to build English competency by editing the Simple English Misplaced Pages, and to build general Misplaced Pages skills by editing in the version of Misplaced Pages in the language they speak best during that minimum six month period. As for Arjan Lake, although the prose is poor, the references in the article make it clear to me that the topic is notable, so the editor deserves some credit for starting this article that did not exist for two decades plus. Cullen328 (talk) 08:57, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Brief comment to avoid the archive bot. Seraphimblade 17:46, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
    • I don't see any appetite to do anything about the CTOP violations here. Someone should probably write up an individual admin's warning about the two articles and the prose/sourcing problems, but I don't see anything here AE can action. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 22:42, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
      @NXcrypto: Yeah, I read your statement. They were doing gnome edits and they made one to a dab page, removing a redlink to a place that happened to be in India and related in no other way to the conduct that got them sanctioned. I'm not obligated as an administrator to enforce the rules strictly. I oppose lengthening the topic ban. Both Cullen and Femke expressed competence concerns that I share, but those are outside the scope of AE as they don't involve any contentious topics or other ArbCom rulings. If one of them indeffed, I wouldn't object, but maybe someone wants to try explaining to them how their articles could be better first before we hit the indef button? theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 05:36, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

    KronosAlight

    KronosAlight is topic-banned from the Arab-Israeli conflict, broadly construed. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:56, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning KronosAlight

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Butterscotch Beluga (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 03:16, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    KronosAlight (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

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    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4#ARBPIA General Sanctions
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 14 December 2024
    • Adds "depiste being an ex-Muslim" to dismiss accusations of Islamophobia MOS:EDITORIAL.
    • Adds MOS:SCAREQUOTES around ‘promoted Islamophobia’ & ‘Islamophobia’ while removing the supporting context.
    • Changed "interpreted that statement as a threat and incitement to violence" to "claimed was a threat and incitement to violence, though no threats or violence in fact occurred" MOS:CLAIM & MOS:EDITORIAL
    1. 14 December 2024 - MOS:TERRORIST
    1. 14 December 2024 - MOS:TERRORIST
    2. 14 December 2024 - MOS:TERRORIST
    • Unnecessarily specific additions that may constitute WP:POVPUSH such as adding "against civilians" & changing "prevent the assassinations of many Israelis" to "prevent the assassinations of many Israeli civilians and soldiers"
    1. 14 December 2024 - MOS:TERRORIST
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    1. 24 June 2024 Warned to abide by the one-revert rule when making edits within the scope of the Arab-Israeli conflict topic area.
    2. 22 October 2024 Blocked from editing for 1 week for violating consensus required on the page Zionism
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    All edits were made at Mosab Hassan Yousef. After I partially reverted their edits with an explanation, I brought the issue to their attention on the talk page, asking for their rationale. They replied that they were "correcting factual errors introduced by previous antisemitic editors" & asked if I "perhaps have a deeper bias that’s influencing decisions in this respect?"

    They then undid my partial revert

    Ealdgyth - While I can't find any comments where they were explicitly "warned for casting aspersions", they were asked back in June to WP:AGF in the topic area.
    Also, apologies for my "diffs of edits that violate this sanction" section, this is the first time I've filed a request here & I thought it'd be best to explain the preamble to my revert, but I understand now that I misunderstood the purpose of that section & will remember such for the future. - Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 15:37, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
    @Vanamonde93 I was able to find a copy of the opinion article being cited 'They Need to Be Liberated From Their God'. Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 20:14, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Discussion concerning KronosAlight

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by KronosAlight

    This is a complete waste of the Arbitration Committee’s time.

    1. That Yousef was born and raised a Muslim is important and neutral context for readers to be aware of when the article refers to claims of ‘Islamophobia’.

    2. The scarequotes indicate that the claim comes from the sources provided, rather than being an objective ‘fact’ determined by a few Misplaced Pages Editors with an axe to grind.

    3. This was already addressed on the Talk page and I updated the sentence to say settlers/soldiers with a further label that it needed further clarification because the source does not in fact unambiguously say what Butterscotch Beluga claims.

    A few lines above what Butterscotch Beluga quotes is the following lines: “AMANPOUR: How did you take part in that? Were you one of the small children who threw rocks at Israeli soldiers?

    YOUSEF: The model for every Palestinian child is a mujahid (ph) or a fidahi (ph) or a fighter. So, of course, I wanted to be one at that point of my life. It wasn't -- it's not my only dream. It's every child's dream in that territory.”

    The updated Wiki page noted both settlers/soldiers and included a note that this requires further clarification, perhaps based on other sources, because it isn’t clear (contra Butterscotch Beluga) whether he is referring to soldiers or settlers.

    4. It is not controversial to accurately describe Hamas as a terrorist organisation. It is simply a fact. To suggest otherwise is POV-pushing.

    5. This is not POVPUSH; ‘assassinations’ against civilians during peacetime are usually called ‘murders’.

    I in fact didn’t even remove the word ‘assassinations’, I merely broadened the description from ‘Israelis’ to ‘Israeli civilians and soldiers’ (as Butterscotch accepted) to indicate the breadth of the individuals in question included both civilians and combatants. This is not POVPUSH, it is simply additional information and context verified in the source itself.

    All in all, a vexatious claim and a waste of the Arbitration Committee’s time.

    Statement by Sean.hoyland

    Regarding "I was correcting factual errors introduced by previous antisemitic editors", it would be helpful if KronosAlight would explicitly identify the antisemitic editors and the edits they corrected so that they can be blocked for being antisemitic editors. Sean.hoyland (talk) 08:17, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

    The editor has been here since 2012. It is reasonable to assume that they know the rules regarding aspersions. It is reasonable to assume they are intentionally violating them, presumably because they genuinely believe they are dealing with antisemitic editors. So, this report is somehow simultaneously a vexatious complete waste of time and the result of the someone interfering with their valiant efforts to correct errors made by antisemitic editors. Why do they have this belief? This is probably a clue, a comment they had the good sense to revert. For me, this is an example of someone attempting to use propaganda that resembles antisemitic conspiracy theories about media control to undermine Misplaced Pages's processes and then changing their mind. But the very fact that they thought of it is disturbing. Their revert suggests that they are probably aware that there are things you can say about an editor and things you cannot say about an editor. From my perspective, what we have here is part of an emerging pattern in the topic area, a growing number of attacks on Misplaced Pages and editors with accusations of antisemitism, cabals etc. stemming in part from external partisan sources/influence operations. Sean.hoyland (talk) 17:35, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Zero0000

    Aspersions:

    Zero 10:36, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Vice regent

    KronosAlight, you changed on 14 Dec 2024: "An open letter signed by Christian and Muslim religious leaders interpreted that statement as a threat and incitement to violence" to "An open letter signed by Christian and Muslim religious leaders claimed was a threat and incitement to violence, though no threats or violence in fact occurred".

    Can you show where either of the sources state "though no threats or violence in fact occurred"? VR (Please ping on reply) 18:07, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Smallangryplanet

    Wanted to add some pertinent evidence:

    Talk:Zionism:

    Talk:Allegations of genocide in the 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon:

    Talk:Relations between Nazi Germany and the Arab world:

    Talk:2024 Lebanon electronic device attacks:

    Talk:Anti-Zionism:

    Talk:Gaza genocide:

    Talk:Nuseirat rescue and massacre:

    Talk:Al-Sardi school attack:

    Talk:Eden Golan:

    Other sanctions:

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning KronosAlight

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • Much of the "diffs of edits that violate this sanction" fail to explain "how these edits violate" the sanction - to me, much of these diffs look like a content dispute. However, the "additional comments" section DOES have a diff that is concerning and violates the CT by casting an aspersion that is not backed up by a diff - the "antisemitic editors" diff. Has KA been previously warned for casting aspersions? If they have, I'm inclined to issue a topic ban, but many other editors get a warning for this if they lack a previous warning. The diffs brought up by Zero (not all of which I necessarily see as aspersions, but the "Jew-hatred" one is definitely over the line - but it's from September so a bit late to sanction for just that) - did anyone point out that aspersions/incivility in this topic area is sanctionable? I see the warnings for 1RR and consensus required... Ealdgyth (talk) 13:30, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
      • @KronosAlight: - can you address the fact that saying "correcting factual errors introduced by previous antisemitic editors" and "Is there no limits you will not cross in order to seek to justify your Jew-hatred"? Neither of these are statements that should ever be made - and the fact that you seem to not to understand this is making me lean towards a topic ban. Ealdgyth (talk) 14:45, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
    • KronosAlight, can you please provide quotes from the references you cited for - for instance - "for his terrorist activities" in this addition, showing that the sources explicitly supported the content you added? Calling a person or an organization is perfectly acceptable if you support that with reliable sources; if it is original research, or source misrepresentation, it isn't acceptable. I cannot access some of the sources in question. You may provide quotes inside a collapsed section if you wish to save space. Vanamonde93 (talk) 19:28, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
      I missed Zero's comments earlier. A lot of those comments, while concerning, are generic, not directed at a specific editor. this, however, is beyond the pale. I would need some convincing that this user is able to edit this area constructively. Vanamonde93 (talk) 20:56, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
      @KronosAlight, can you please respond to this? I too am concerned...the quote you're objecting to wasn't from DrSmarty. It was a direct quote, scare quotes and all, from the US Holocaust Memorial Museum. You seem to have reacted to it as if it were DrSmarty. Valereee (talk) 16:06, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
    • I don't like to sanction in absentia, and I'm not yet suggesting we do so, but I want to note that not choosing not to respond here, or going inactive to avoid responding, will not improve the outcome as far as I am concerned. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:20, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
      They're a pretty sporadic editor...many edits over a period of a few days, then nothing for two weeks. Maybe we pin this until they edit again? Valereee (talk) 17:26, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
      I agree with Valereee that this editors contribution history shows a pattern of editing for a day or two at a time followed by several weeks of inactivity. So I don't think it's fair to say they went inactive here but also holding this open for multiple weeks waiting for a response places some burden on the other other interested editors. Barkeep49 (talk) 17:33, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
      Welp, it's been nearly ten days since they first posted here, calling this a waste of time and vexatious. They're fully aware it's happening, and it's not even like they haven't been to AE before.
      I've gone through the diffs here, and it seems to me the basis of KA's problematic editing is that they're on a mission to WP:right great wrongs, specifically w/re what they see as antisemitic bias on WP. The exchange at Talk:Algeria a few weeks ago makes that pretty clear: they come into Algeria and open a section to post a content complaint about the article not covering changing Jewish demographics in the country, saying "Many people have edited it, but apparently not one has seen fit to explain" this. Another editor suggests KA fix whatever problem they're seeing, and KA responds: I made that comment to highlight the obvious problem of antisemitism among Misplaced Pages editors. The question was rhetorical. And many of their other talk contributions are focussed on these accusations of systemic bias.
      And @KronosAlight, in case you're paying attention: of course WP has systemic bias. It's usually unintentional, but in most CTOPs there are editors who consciously try to push a POV. The solution for that isn't to go 'round making accusations. It's to go 'round fixing the problem either by adding missing content or by discussing biased content in nonproblematic ways. It's the "nonproblematic ways" part you're missing, here. And if you are paying attention: You cannot make an AE case go away by ignoring it. I very strongly recommend you come in here and respond to the questions. Valereee (talk) 13:40, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
    • I propose closing this with an indefinite topic ban in a day or two, unless KA decides to respond. I think KA needs to be aware that they have fallen short of the required standards of behavior no matter the topic, and similar incivility elsewhere will quite likely result in an indefinite block. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:55, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
      Support. Valereee (talk) 18:05, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
      Been watching this thread from afar, but it looks like a civil POV-pushing case to me and I support as well. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 18:54, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
      I don't know about that. I haven't determined if their edits were supported by sources or not - so I don't know if this is POV-pushing - but it looks pretty uncivil to me. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:35, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
      Oh, that's fair on the civility :) I was mostly looking at the mainspace edits. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 17:40, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Nicoljaus

    Appeal declined --Guerillero 19:56, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    Procedural notes: Per the rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals, a "clear and substantial consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

    To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

    Appealing user
    Nicoljaus (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:09, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    Sanction being appealed
    To enforce an arbitration decision, and for edit warring, and intent to game 1rr, you have been blocked indefinitely from editing Misplaced Pages.
    Administrator imposing the sanction
    ScottishFinnishRadish (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
    Notification of that administrator
    I'm aware. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Nicoljaus

    The circumstances of my blocking were:

    • I was looking for a Misplaced Pages account for Hiba Abu Nada to add it to Wikidata. I couldn't find it, so I did a little research. The reference in the article indicated that she participated in some WikiWrites(?) project. I didn’t find such a project, but I found the WikiRights project: https://ar.wikipedia.org/ويكيبيديا:ويكي_رايتس. It was organized by a certain Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor. I read the Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor article and didn't see any outside perspective, "controversy" or anything like that, just self-representation. I surfed the Internet and instantly found information that must be in the article to comply with the NPOV. I started adding , everything went well for two days. Then:
    • 12:53, 23 April 2024 - Zero0000 made a complete cancellation of all additions
    • 13:14, 23 April 2024 - (20 minutes later!) Selfstudier wrote on my TP
    • 14:20 - 14:22, 23 April 2024 -‎ With two edits (first, second) I partially took into account the comment of Zero0000 about "ethnic marking", but returned the last .
    • 14:27, 23 April 2024 (7 minutes later!!) Selfstudier makes a second complete cancellation of all my edits, blaming POV editing
    • 14:45, 23 April 2024‎ - I’m returning the version where I partially took into account Zero0000’s comments (removed "ethnic marking")
    • 15:10, 23 April 2024 - Selfstudier accuses me of 1RR breach. In the dialogue, I explained that the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination. My first undo was part of a counter edit User talk:Nicoljaus#1RR_breach
    • 15:41, 23 April 2024 Selfstudier writes on Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement
    • 16:10, 23 April 2024 (30 minutes later!) ScottishFinnishRadish issues an indefinite block . No opportunity to write my “statement”, as well as an extremely bad faith interpretation of my remark as "an intent to game 1rr".

    Given that the both Selfstudier and Zero0000 are currently being discussed in Arbcom (https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_5/Evidence), I humbly ask you to take a fresh look at my indefinite block and soften the restrictions in some way". Nicoljaus (talk) 19:32, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

    @ScottishFinnishRadish: - You mean, I need to discuss my previous edit war blocks? Well, the last one was almost four years ago and that time I simply forgot that I was under 1RR (there was a big break in editing) and tried to get sources for a newly added map, and the opponent refused to do so . As it turned out later, the true source was a book by a fringe author, which the RSN called "Usual nationalistic bullshit, no sign of reliability". Yes, it was a stupid forgetfulness on my part. Nicoljaus (talk) 16:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    @Aquillion: Even if you were correct that Selfstudier & Zero0000 were WP:TAGTEAMing (always a tricky accusation, because it's hard to separate that from just your edits being so obviously problematic that two people independently reverted them) -- That's why I wrote that my "so problematic edits" attracted attention only after two days, but two users appeared within 20 minutes. However, after months, a lot of data about the cooperation of these users appeared (and this is not my imagination): "While a single editor, Shane (a newbie), advocated for its inclusion, a trio of veterans including Zero0000, Nishidani and Selfstudier fought back. After Selfstudier accused Shane of being a troll for arguing for the photo’s inclusion, Zero0000, days later, “objected” to its inclusion, citing issues of provenance. Nishidani stepped in to back up Zero0000, prompting a response by Shane. The following day, Zero0000 pushed back against Shane, who responded. The day after, Nishidani returned with his own pushback. The tag-team effort proved too much for Shane, who simply gave up, and the effort succeeded: the photo remains absent" . I'll add that after Selfstudier accused Shane of trolling, Zero0000 appeared on Shane's page and said: "Kindly keep your insults to yourself I won't hesitate to propose you for blocking if you keep it up" . According to the table at the link , these two users cooperated like this 720 times. Probably hundreds of people were embittered, forced out of the project, or led to blocking like me.--Nicoljaus (talk) 13:02, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    @ScottishFinnishRadish: Hello, thank you very much for transferring my remarks, now I understand how it works. I would like to clarify the issue of meatpuppetry. You directly accused me of such intentions in justifying the block, and now this accusation has been repeated . Let's figure out whether my hint that Selfstudier and Zero0000 are working too closely was so absurd? Was it really and remains so absurd that it could not be perceived as anything other than my self-exposure? I don't think so.

    As for the "edit war" - I understand that edit wars are evil. In the spirit of cooperation, I tried to meet my opponents halfway, as in this case, taking into account their claim, which I could understand, in the counter edit. If such an action is also considered an edit war and a violation of the 1RR/3RR rule - I will of course avoid it in the future.--Nicoljaus (talk) 16:00, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

    @Valereee: Hello, I understand your point that edit wars can be disruptive, particularly in a CTOP context. However, I believe it is essential to recognize that not all reverts carry the same implications. While it is true that a revert is a revert, the context and intent behind the action should also be taken into account. In this instance, I made efforts to address the concerns of the other party involved, which reflects a willingness to engage in dialogue rather than simply reverting. Furthermore, I acknowledge your reference to the 1RR/3RR rule and my history of blocks for edit-warring. However, given the amount of time that has passed, I believe I have gained valuable insights and learned a great deal. Moreover, given this topic, I think I actually learned something unlike the other side, whose history of blocks for edit-warring remains clean.--Nicoljaus (talk) 4:24 am, Today (UTC−5)

    @Valereee: In response to this, I can say that I already know very well how carelessly admins impose blocks. If any further statements are needed from me, just ping me. With best regards.--Nicoljaus (talk) 09:51, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by ScottishFinnishRadish

    Absent from the appeal is discussion of the five prior edit warring blocks and any indication that they will not resume edit warring. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

    I said They have a long history of edit warring, so I'd like to see that addressed rather than blaming others above, twelve days ago. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:30, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    Nicoljaus, you should be focusing on convincing people that you won't edit war in the future rather than more WP:NOTTHEM. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:11, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by (involved editor 1)

    Statement by (involved editor 2)

    Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Nicoljaus

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Simonm223

    This edit looks like a bright-line WP:BLP violation via WP:ATTACK and WP:WEASEL - and removing BLP violations are generally somewhere where there is some latitude on WP:1RR which makes the actions of Zero0000 and Selfstudier more justified, not less. Simonm223 (talk) 13:50, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Aquillion

    Selfstudier accuses me of 1RR breach. In the dialogue, I explained that the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination. My first undo was part of a counter edit - I feel like this is obvious enough that I probably don't have to point it out, but "counter edit" is not a WP:3RR / WP:1RR exception. Even if you were correct that Selfstudier & Zero0000 were WP:TAGTEAMing (always a tricky accusation, because it's hard to separate that from just your edits being so obviously problematic that two people independently reverted them), it still would not justify your revert. The fact that they're parties to an ArbCom case (which hasn't even yet found any fault with them!) doesn't change any of this. You should probably read WP:NOTTHEM. --Aquillion (talk) 14:15, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Sean.hoyland

    "the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination"...yet another conspiracy-minded evidence-free accusation against editors in the PIA topic area, the third one at AE in just a few days. Sean.hoyland (talk) 14:59, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by (uninvolved editor 1)

    Result of the appeal by Nicoljaus

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • I do not see any indication that Nicoljaus actually realizes the problem. The edit warring blocks were indeed some time ago, but one might think they would remember it after being blocked for it repeatedly, not to mention that being issued a CTOP notice might call a CTOP restriction to mind. And the remark in question sure looks to me like a threat to game 1RR via meatpuppetry, too. Given all that, I would decline this appeal. Seraphimblade 23:10, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    • I see nothing in this appeal that makes me think they've taken on board the changes that they'd need to do to be a productive editor. It reads to me like "my block was bad, here's why", and that's not working as a reason for me to support unblocking. Ealdgyth (talk) 23:21, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Nicoljaus, what we need to see is you demonstrating you understand edit-warring at a CTOP, which is what you were blocked for, and convincing us you won't do it again. Arguing the block should be lifted because other editors did something you thought looked suspicious isn't going to convince us. Just FWIW, Nicoljaus, the source doesn't actually say these two users cooperated like this 720 times. It says they edited the same articles 720 times, and that's not unusual. Most editors see the same other editors over and over again in articles about their primary interest. And edit by editor 1>2 days>revert by editor 2>revert by editor 1>20 minutes>revert by editor 3 is also not at all unusual anywhere on the encyclopedia and isn't evidence of tag-teaming. People read their watch lists. Any editor with that article on their watchlist, which is nearly fifty editors, might have investigated the large revert of an edit by an experienced editor at a contentious topic. Valereee (talk) 15:18, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
      @Nicoljaus, it's not that edit wars are evil. It's that they're disruptive, and particularly in a CTOP we really really don't need additional disruption and drama. A revert is a revert, even if you tried to meet my opponents halfway, as in this case, taking into account their claim, which I could understand, in the counter edit. Re: If such an action is also considered an edit war and a violation of the 1RR/3RR rule: a revert is a revert and is covered in the policy around reversions. And you have a history of blocks for edit-warring, including at other CTOPs.
      It's been seven months since the block. I'm trying to come around to a way to at least allow this editor a chance to show us they've taken this stuff on board...maybe a 0RR at all CTOPs? Valereee (talk) 17:44, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
      @Nicoljaus, re I believe it is essential to recognize that not all reverts carry the same implications. While it is true that a revert is a revert, the context and intent behind the action should also be taken into account. In this instance, I made efforts to address the concerns of the other party involved, which reflects a willingness to engage in dialogue rather than simply reverting. Some editors at talk pages will take your apparent intentions into account. Some will just take you to ANEW. Some admins at ANEW will take your apparent intentions into account. Some will just reblock you.
      No one anywhere is promising that your intentions will be taken into account -- or even that they'll try to figure out what your intentions are -- and therefore it's completely your responsibility to read the situation you're in correctly. If you read it wrong, you're likely to be blocked again, and honestly another block for edit-warring at a CTOP is likely to be another indef, and it would absolutely not surprise me for the blocking admin to require 12 months to appeal. Valereee (talk) 15:25, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
      No need to reply, but I'll tell you plainly I've been trying to give you opportunities to convince other admins here, and you keep wanting to dig the hole deeper. I'd support an unblock with an editing restriction of 0RR at any article with a CTOPs designation on the talk page. Valereee (talk) 13:13, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
    • I would also decline this per Seraphimblade, even if there were to be an unblock I would expect a PIA topic-ban (at the least) to be included. Black Kite (talk) 18:59, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
    • I see a rough consensus, so I am closing the thread --Guerillero 19:56, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

    PerspicazHistorian

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning PerspicazHistorian

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    NXcrypto (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    PerspicazHistorian (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    WP:ARBIPA
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 17:57, 18 December 2024 - removed "discrimination" sidebar from the page of Hindutva (fascist ideology) even though the sidebar was inserted inside a section, not even the lead.
    2. 17:59, 18 December 2024 - tag bombed the highly vetted Hindutva article without any discussion or reason
    3. 10:15, 18 December 2024 - attributing castes to people withhout any sources
    4. 12:11, 18 December 2024 - edit warring to impose the above edits after getting reverted
    5. 17:09, 18 December 2024 - just like above, but this time he also added unreliable sources
    6. 18:29, 18 December 2024 - still edit warring and using edit summaries instead of talk page for conversation
    7. 14:46, 19 December 2024 (UTC) - filed an outrageous report on WP:ANI without notifying any editors. This report was closed by Bbb23 as "This is nothing but a malplaced, frivolous personal attack by the OP."
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    • Already 2 blocks in last 4 months for edit warring.
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    I do not see any positive signs that this editor will ever improve. So far he has only regressed. Nxcrypto Message 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

    While going through this report, PerspicazHistorian has made another highly problematic edit here by edit warring and misrepresenting the sources to label the organisation as "terrorist". This primary source only provides a list of organisations termed by the Indian government as "terrorist" contrary to MOS:TERRORIST. Nxcrypto Message 03:12, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Discussion concerning PerspicazHistorian

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by PerspicazHistorian

    • By far I am also concerned how my edits were forcefully reverted without a proper reason despite providing enough references. Please check how I am getting attacked by them on Chandraseniya_Kayastha_Prabhu Page.

    I didn't know about the three-revert-rule before User: Ratnahastin told me about this: User_talk:PerspicazHistorian. Please grant me one more chance, I will make sure not to edit war.

    • In the below statement by LukeEmily, As a reply I just want to say that I was just making obvious edit on Chandraseniya_Kayastha_Prabhu by adding a list of notable people with proper references. And according to Edit_warring#What_edit_warring_is it is clearly said: "Edits from a slanted point of view, general insertion or removal of material, or other good-faith changes are not considered vandalism." It was a good faith edit but others reverted it. I accept my mistake of not raising it on talk page as a part of Misplaced Pages:BOLD,_revert,_discuss_cycle.
    • As a clarification to my edit on Students' Islamic Movement of India, it can be clearly seen that I provided enough reference to prove its a terrorist organisation as seen in this edit. I don't know why is there a discussion to this obvious edit? Admins please correct me if I am wrong.
    @Valereee, Yes I read about 1RR and 0RR revert rules in Misplaced Pages:Edit warring#What edit warring is#Other revert rules. I now understand the importance of raising the topic on talk page whenever a consensus is needed. Thank You ! PerspicazHistorian (talk) 07:16, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    Yes, I will commit to that. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 13:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC) Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section. Seraphimblade 13:19, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    At that time I was new to how AFD discussions worked. Later on when Satish R. Devane was marked for deletion, I respected the consensus by not interfering in it. The article was later deleted. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 11:54, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Hi @Doug Weller , I just checked your user page. You have 16 years (I am 19) of experience on wiki, you must be right about me. I agree that my start on Misplaced Pages has been horrible, but I am learning a lot from you all. I promise that I will do better, get more neutral here and contribute to the platform to my best. Please don't block me.
    P.S.- I don't know If I will be blocked or what , according to this enforcement rules, I just want to personally wish good luck to you for your ongoing cancer treatments, You will surely win this battle of Life. Regards. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 12:23, 21 December 2024 (UTC)Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section.Valereee (talk) 15:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    • 1) I just asked an user @Fylindfotberserk if the page move is possible. What's wrong with it? I still have not considered putting a move request on talk page of article.
    2) Many of other sources are not raj era. Moreover I myself have deleted the content way before you pointing this out. Thank You ! PerspicazHistorian (talk) 06:29, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    even @NXcrypto is seen engaged in edit wars before on contentious Indian topics. see1see2 PerspicazHistorian (talk) 06:37, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    as mentioned by @Valereee before, Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here. You can discuss content related topics on talk pages of articles rather than personally targeting a user here in enforcement. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 06:42, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    @Valereee I once filed a complaint to find it @NXcrypto is a sock (out of a misunderstanding, as all were teamed up similarly on various pages). I think he felt it as a personal attack by me and filed this request for enforcement. Please interfere. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 06:47, 29 December 2024 (UTC) moving to correct section Valereee (talk) 13:24, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    1)Yes I usually edit on RSS related topics, but to ensure a democratic view is maintained as many socks try to disrupt such articles. Even on Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh page, I just edited on request of talk page and added a graph. I don't think its a POV push.
    2) My main interest in editing is Hinduism and Indian History topics.
    3)There have been certain cases in past where I was blocked but if studied carefully they were result of me edit warring with socks(although, through guidance of various experienced editors and admins I learnt a SPI should be filed first). I have learnt a lot in my journey and there have been nearly zero case of me of edit warring this month.
    Please do not block me. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 14:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    • @Valereee I beg apologies for the inconvenience caused, thanks for correcting me. I will now reply in my own statement section. @Bishonen I am a quick learner and professionally competent to edit in this encyclopedic space. Please consider reviewing this enforcement if its an counter-attack on me as mentioned in my previous replies. You all are experienced editors and I have good faith in your decision-making capability.PerspicazHistorian (talk) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
    • @Vanamonde93@Bishonen I have edited content marked as "original research" and "mess" by you, I am ready to help removing any content that might be considered "poorly sourced" by the community. Please don't block me.PerspicazHistorian (talk) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
    • @Valereee This enforcement started for edit-warring and now I feel its more concerned to my edited content(which I agree to cooperate and change wherever needed). After learning about edit wars, there has been no instance of me edit-warring, Please consider my request.--PerspicazHistorian (talk) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
      @Valereee I am not a slow learner, I understand the concerns of all admins here. I will try my best to add only reliable sources, and discuss content in all talk pages, as I already mentioned here. PPicazHist (talk) 12:55, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
      @Valereee@UtherSRG I think admins should focus more on encouraging editors when they do good and correct when mistaken. I have made many edits, added many citations and created much articles which use fine citations. The enforcement started out of retaliation by nxcrypto, now moving towards banning me anyways. I started editing out of passion, and doing it here on wiki unlike those who come here just for pov pushes and disrupt article space(talking about socks and vandalizers on contentious Indian topics).
      The article prasada doesn't only has issue on citations, but the whole article is copypasted from the citations I added. I just wanted to point that out. Remaining about Misplaced Pages:CIR, I am currently pursuing Btech in cs from IIT delhi, idt I am a slow learner by any means. Still, happy new year to all ! PPicazHist (talk) 14:01, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
      @UtherSRG You mean to say, "The prasada is to be consumed by attendees as a holy offering. The offerings may include cooked food, fruits and confectionery sweets. Vegetarian food is usually offered and later distributed to the devotees who are present in the temple. Sometimes this vegetarian offering will exclude prohibited items such as garlic, onion, mushroom, etc. " is not copy pasted by this website? Is this also a wiki mirror website? How would you feel if I doubt your competence now? PPicazHist (talk) 14:47, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by LukeEmily

    PerspicazHistorian also violated WP:BRD by engaging in an edit war with Ratnahastin who reverted his edits and restored an article to a stable version by admin. Also, I want to assume good faith but it is surprising that PerspicazHistorian claims that he did not know the three revert rule given that he has more than 800 edits.LukeEmily (talk)

    Statement by Doug Weller

    I'm involved so just commenting. I don't think this editor is competent. I had to give them a community sanction caste warning as they were making a mess of castes. See this earlier version of their talk page.]https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:PerspicazHistorian&oldid=1262289249] and User:Deb's comment that "It was very unwise of you to keep moving Draft:Satish R. Devane to article space when it has not passed review. As a direct result of your actions, a deletion discussion is taking place, and when this is complete and the article is deleted, you will be prevented from recreating it. Deb (talk) 14:44, 4 December 2024 (UTC)" There have also been copyright issues. I strongly support a topic ban. Doug Weller talk 11:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

    I won't be involved in the decision. No more treatments for me, just coast until... Doug Weller talk 12:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Toddy1

    This is another editor who appears to have pro-Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and pro-Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) views. I dislike those views, but find it rather alarming that Misplaced Pages should seek to censor those views, but not the views of the political opponents. Imagine the outrage if we sought to topic-ban anyone who expressed pro-Republican views, but allowed Democrat-activists to say whatever they liked.

    A lot of pro-RSS/BJP editors turn out to be sock-puppets, so please can we do a checkuser on this account. And to be even-handed, why not checkuser NXcrypto too.

    If we want to talk about WP:CIR when editors make mistakes, look at the diff given by NXcrypto for "Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested" - it is the wrong diff. He/she did notify PerspicazHistorian - but the correct diff is .

    A topic ban from Indian topics would be unhelpful, unless given to both parties. Misplaced Pages is meant to be a mainstream encyclopaedia, and BJP and RSS are mainstream in India. Loading the dice against BJP and RSS editors will turn Misplaced Pages into a fringe encyclopaedia on Indian topics.

    I can see a good case for restricting PerspicazHistorian to draft articles and talk pages for a month, and suggesting that he/she seeks advice from more experienced editors. Another solution would be a one-revert rule to last six months.-- Toddy1 (talk) 13:55, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Capitals00

    I find the comment from Toddy1 to be entirely outrageous. What are you trying to tell by saying "Misplaced Pages is meant to be a mainstream encyclopaedia, and BJP and RSS are mainstream in India"? If you want us to entertain those who are in power, then we could never have an article like False or misleading statements by Donald Trump.

    You cannot ask topic ban for both editors without having any evidence of misconduct. Same way, you cannot ask CU on either user only for your own mental relief. It is a high time that you should strike your comment, since you are falsely accusing others that they "seek to censor" this editor due to his "pro-Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and pro-Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) views". You should strike your comment. If you cannot do that, then I am sure WP:BOOMERANG is coming for you. Capitals00 (talk) 15:20, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Vanamonde93

    Toddy1: I, too, am baffled by your comment. We don't ban editors based on their POV; but we do ban editors who fail to follow our PAGs, and we certainly don't make excuses for editors who fail to follow our guidelines based on their POV. You seem to be suggesting we cut PH some slack because of their political position, and I find that deeply inappropriate. Among other things, I don't believe they have publicly stated anywhere that they support the BJP or the RSS, and we cannot make assumptions about them.

    That said, the fact that this was still open prompted me to spot-check PH's contributions, and I find a lot to be concerned about. This edit is from 29 December, and appears to be entirely original research; I cannot access all of the sources, but snippet search does not bear out the content added, and the Raj era source for the first sentence certainly does not support the content it was used for. Baji Pasalkar, entirely authored by PH, is full of puffery ("first to sacrifice his life for the cause of Swarajya", and poor sources (like this blog, and this book, whose blurb I leave you to judge), from which most of the article appears to be drawn. Appa (title), also entirely authored by PH, has original research in its very first sentence; the sources that I can access give passing mention to people whose names include the suffix "appa", and thus could perhaps be examples of usage, but the sources most certainly do not bear out the claim.

    I will note in fairness that I cannot access all the sources for the content I checked. But after spotchecking a dozen examples I have yet to find content PH wrote that was borne out by a reliable source, so I believe skepticism is justified. We are in territory where other editors may need to spend days cleaning up some of this writing. Bishonen If we're in CIR territory, just a normal indefinite block seems cleanest, surely? Or were you hoping that PH would help clean up their mess, perhaps by providing quotes from sources? That could be a pathway to contributing productively, but I'm not holding my breath. Vanamonde93 (talk) 18:00, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Thanks Bish: I agree, as my exchanges with PH today, in response to my first post here, have not inspired confidence. . Vanamonde93 (talk) 20:22, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by UtherSRG

    I've mostly dealt with PH around Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Ankur Warikoo (2nd nomination). They do not seem to have the ability to read and understand our policies and processes. As such, a t-ban is too weak. The minimum I would support is a p-block as suggested below, though a full indef is also acceptable. They could then ask for the standard offer when they can demonstrate they no longer have WP:CIR issues. - UtherSRG (talk) 20:05, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

    Based on these two edits, I'm more strongly leaning towards indef. - UtherSRG (talk) 12:27, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
    They now indicate they believe the article they edited was copied from one of the websites they used as a reference, when in reality the website is a mirror/scrape of the Misplaced Pages article. I believe we are firmly in WP:CIR territory here. - UtherSRG (talk) 14:25, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
    This is a mirror of the Misplaced Pages article. - UtherSRG (talk) 16:29, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

    Result concerning PerspicazHistorian

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

    PerspicazHistorian, can you explain your understanding of WP:edit warring and the WP:3RR rule? I'd like you to read thoroughly enough to also explain wny someone may be edit warring even if they aren't breaking 3RR. Valereee (talk) 21:58, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

    @PerspicazHistorian, that explanation of edit warring is a bit wanting. An edit war is when two or more editors revert content additions/removals repeatedly. Even a second reversion by the same editor can be considered edit warring. Best practice -- and what I highly recommend, especially for any inexperienced editor -- is the first time someone reverts an edit of yours, go to the talk page, open a section, ping the editor who reverted you, and discuss. Do you think you can commit to that?
    Re: your question on why your "obvious edit" was reverted: we don't deal with content issues here, only with behavior issues, but from a very quick look, the source is 50 years old, and using a list headed "TERRORIST ORGANISATIONS LISTED IN THE FIRST SCHEDULE OF THE UNLAWFUL ACTIVITIES (PREVENTION) ACT, 1967" that includes a certain organization as a source that the organization should be described as a terrorist organization is WP:ORIGINAL RESEARCH; in their revert NXcrypto provided an edit summary of "Not a reliable source for such a contentious label. See WP:LABEL." Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here. Valereee (talk) 11:28, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    I'm seeing this as a CIR issue. I'd like input from other admins, if possible. I'm a little concerned that setting a tban from IPA is just setting a trap. Maybe a p-block from article space would be a kinder way to allow them to gain some experience? Valereee (talk) 13:28, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    @PerspicazHistorian, have you seen how many times I or others have had to move your comments to your own section? This is an example of not having enough experience to edit productively. Please do not post in anyone else's section again. Valereee (talk) 16:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    I do agree we're in CIR territory, and the concerns expressed are completely valid. I don't think this editor is ill-intentioned. They just don't seem very motivated to learn quickly. Well-intentioned-but-a-slow-learner is something that can only be fixed by actually practicing what you're bad at. I'd prefer an indef from article space which gives them one more chance to learn here before we send them off to mr.wiki or Simple English to try to learn. Not a hill I'm going to die on, though. Valereee (talk) 11:36, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
    @PerspicazHistorian, like Uther I have major concerns about the edit you made yesterday, which included replacing a citation needed tag with these sources. The first is a company that markets astrology services. The second is the site for a religious sect. Neither is a reliable source for explaining the concept of prasada in Wikivoice. You made this edit yesterday, after you'd confirmed here and on my talk that you understood sourcing policy.
    The reason for an indef from article space is to allow you to learn this policy: You would go into article talk and suggest sources to fix citation needed tags. Another editor would have to agree with you that the sources are reliable before they'd add them. Valereee (talk) 12:51, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
    • A tban from IPA for PerspicazHistorian would be a relief to many editors trying to keep this difficult area in reasonable shape. However, Valereee makes a good point about 'setting a trap': it's doubtful that PH would be able to keep to a tban even if they tried in good faith. I would therefore support a p-block from article space. Bishonen | tålk 16:48, 29 December 2024 (UTC).
      Vanamonde93, no, I don't really think PH can usefully help clean up their mess; I was following Valereee, who has been going into this in some depth, in attempting to keep some way of editing Misplaced Pages open for PH. It's a bit of a counsel of desperation, though; there is very little daylight between an indef and a p-block from article space. Yes, we are in CIR territory; just look at PH's recent supposed evidence on this page for NXcrypto being "engaged in edit wars before on contentious Indian topics": one diff of an opponent complaining on NXcrypto's page, and one diff of somebody reverting NXcrypto. What do those actually prove? That NXcrypto has opponents (big surprise). So, yes, as you suggest, I'll support an indef as well. Bishonen | tålk 20:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC).

    References

    1. "Significance of Different Type of Prasad in Hinduism For God". GaneshaSpeaks. Retrieved 2024-12-30.
    2. "What Is Prashad". Shree Swaminarayan Mandir Bhuj. Retrieved 2024-12-30.

    Walter Tau

    Consensus to indefinitely block Walter Tau. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 22:11, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Walter Tau

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Bobby Cohn (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 20:51, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Walter Tau (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Eastern Europe#Final decision
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 4 December 2024 Creation (and subsequent editing and AfC submission) of Draft:Maternity capital. See it's page history, there's no need to supply the entirety of the diffs here.
      • For context on how this subject falls under the purview, see the context given by the news article as shared on the talk page: Russia using adoption of Ukranian children during the Russo-Ukranian war. Then note how this state program directly discusses adoption support, which was adapted by Putin following the start of the war. A citation given in the draft article. The Google translated version specifically notes the changes "At the same time, residents of the new regions will receive maternity capital regardless of the basis and timing of their acquisition of Russian citizenship" (emphasis mine).
      This draft, as it is written, is extremely promotional in areas and could basically be hosted on a state-sponsored website. Given the context, I believe this falls under the topic ban.

    References

    1. Bruce, Camdyn (14 December 2022). "Ukrainian official rips Russia for 'kidnapping' more than 13,000 children". The Hill.
    2. "Путин подписал закон, уточняющий условия выплаты материнского капитала" . interfax.ru.
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    1. 26 November 2024 Notice given by Rosguill (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) that they were now subject to an arbitration enforcement sanction
    2. 5 December 2024 Blocked by Swatjester (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) for violating the sanction based on the edits to a project page.
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    It has been repeatedly pointed out to Walter Tau that they are skirting the line of the their topic ban by specifically not mentioning the "elephant in the room", see the diff by Asilvering above. They have also repeatedly chosen to ignore advice that they stop editing in the subject area and have repeatedly claimed to fail to see how their editing is problematic. As such, I have opened this discussion here so as to get an answer for Walter Tau on their editing, see "Also, since you mentioned a "topic ban", I would appreciate, if you provide a reference to it, as well as explain how it relates to this article Materniy Capital." They claim to continuously be unaware of the ban, see also their talk page discussions.

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Notified 24 December 2024.


    Discussion concerning Walter Tau

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Walter Tau

    I feel, that the decision by Boby Cohn regarding my draft https://en.wikipedia.org/Draft:Maternity_capital, is "arbitrary and capriciuos" to use US legal terms : ], for the following reasons:

    1) nowhere my draft mentions the words "Ukraine" or "Ukrainian".

    2) this draft ] is a translation of the original Russian wiki- article : https://ru.wikipedia.org/%D0%9C%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BB . I have heard the argument, that different languages in Misplaced Pages use different standards for articles' notability etc. Can someone please provide a web-link to Misplaced Pages rules, that actually confirms, that different standards for different languages is the currently accepted policy. I have been unable to find such statement.

    3) In fact, my draft focuses mostly on the policies before 24 February 2022, i.e. before full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine.

    4) Please correct me, if I am wrong, by it seems that Boby Cohn's only argument of my ban violation is the following statement in my draft of Maternity Capital. "Residents of new regions are paid maternity capital regardless of the time and basis for obtaining Russian citizenship." In my defense: I did not write that statement- it is a Google translation from the Russian wiki, actually a small part of the translated text. And with all honesty, when I was reading the translated text, it did not cross my mind, that someone may interpret so broadly. Also, this sentence-in-question does not really add much to the main subject to the article, and I do not object to its deletion.

    5) Considering, that a) I did not write, but only translated the text-in-question; b) the relevance to the text-in-question to my topic ban is not apparent, particularly in the larger context of the whole article; c) I do not object deleting the text-in-question from the draft; may I suggest changing the draft to fix this controversy?

    6) If there are other controversial sections/sentences in my translated draft, it may be better if someone re-writes them. Most wiki-readers, can agree with a statement, that this draft ] may not reach an "Article of the Day" status, but it has a value as a stand-alone article as well as a source of references (more-to-be-added). Walter Tau (talk) 13:45, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

    I can see now, why some editors consider the translated addition, that I made, a violation of my ban on editing Russia-Ukraine topic. It was not my intention. I fact, I agree with the deletion of the questionable sentence "Residents of new regions are paid maternity capital regardless of the time and basis for obtaining Russian citizenship.". At the same time, I would like to keep the rest of draft, so that myself and other keep working on getting it published. Do I understand correctly, that the notability of this topic is not being questioned?

    Statement by TylerBurden

    Walter Tau doesn't seem to think they have done anything wrong on Misplaced Pages, so it's honestly not surprising to see them continuing to push the limit despite the sanctions they have received. At some point you have to wonder if there is a foundational WP:COMPETENCE or trolling (or a combination of both) issue. Either way, yes they are clearly violating their topic ban by writing about the Russian kidnapping of Ukrainian children from the war, because that is what this whole ″adoption″ thing is. --TylerBurden (talk) 17:22, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Walter Tau

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • Sidestepping for now the question of whether simply not mentioning anything conflict-related would have been enough to avoid a TBAN violation, the references to "new regions" make this a violation much more straightforwardly. Justice is blind but not stupid. Walter, I think we're going to need to see recognition from you that this was a TBAN violation, if we're going to find a good path forward here. I'd also like to know who you are referring to when you reference other editors working on the draft? Auric has made some gnomish edits but you appear to be the only substantive editor. And why are you implying, on Bobby's talk, that y'all have been corresponding by email, when he denies that? -- Tamzin (they|xe|🤷) 22:29, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    • I'll be direct: I think Walter knows what he is doing and has no intention of abiding by his TBAN, even when it was exhaustively explained to him, and I don't think we should be wasting further time here when we're almost certainly going to be right back here again within a few weeks. ⇒SWATJester 05:29, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Back off a one week block for violating the topic ban, and already violating it again? (The "new regions" material is unquestionably a violation.) It seems that Walter Tau is either unwilling or unable to abide by the restriction, and does not, even after explanation, understand any of the issues here (or even understand something so simple as that different language Wikipedias are independent from one another and each have their own policies and practices). Given that, I don't see anything to be done here except to indef. Seraphimblade 17:45, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
    • I am 48 hours early to the party, but I would support an indef here --Guerillero 16:43, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
      @Tamzin and Swatjester: Planning to close this one, since it's been a week – any closing thoughts on the remedy? theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 16:31, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
    Seems like everyone responding so far is aligned w/ an indef, which I'd support. ⇒SWATJester 21:16, 31 December 2024 (UTC)