Talk:Whisper of the Heart: Difference between revisions

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			{{Talk header}}
	{{Film\|class=Start\|Japanese-task-force=yes}}
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	\|date = 07:38, 10 December 2009
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			{{Refideas
			\| {{Cite web \|first=Stuart \|last=Galbraith \|url=http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/55459/whisper-of-the-heart/ \|title= Whisper of the Heart (Blu-ray) \|work=DVD Talk \|date=4 June 2012 }} – {{Para\|author-suffix\|IV}}?
			\| {{Cite news \|first=Andrew \|last=Osmond \|url=https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/review/whisper-of-the-heart \|title=Whisper of the Heart \|work=Anime News Network \|location=Westmount, Quebec \|date=11 January 2012 }}
	}}		}}

			== Suggested APPROACH for the article: correct length, tone, and detail. ==
	== Image wrong ==

	The image associated with this page is the wrong image. That image is off howls moving castle, not whisper of the heart. If I can find a cc image, I'll change it. In the meantime if anyone else does ... (or I forget :-)) <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 23:07, 10 June 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

	the image is a direct shot from the movie "Whisper of the Heart" at 1:13:34 on either the DVD or BluRay. The large red writing at the top right says "MiminoSumaseba" which is the title of Whisper of the Heart in Japanese ] (]) 22:09, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

	:Just to clarify, the image about the Whisper of the Heart is actually the film's Japanese promotional poster. Make sense? ] ] (] - ]) 23:43, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

	Umm - yes, that's what I pointed out here on the talk page three times. however you and/or Edward DELETED THESE COMMENTS over and over. To be clear, and to repeat, you and/or Edward have wholesale DELETED THE TALK PAGE over and over. ] (]) 06:24, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

	== Article issues ==

	All right. There are some serious issues going on here in the article:

	*1. The article needs sourcing from various reliable websites, books and reviews.
	*2. An IP hopper from France has insisted that the edits he/she has done are correct. However, I and {{user\|Edward321}}, strongly disagree with this. These include seemingly disruption of the talk page ], using all-caps in the edit summaries (which are ]), and clearly violating the ] by adding personal interpretations of the characters.

	As I do not want to edit war here, I am taking the ] route to see if anyone can voice their opinions on the matter. Thanks, ] ] (] - ]) 18:18, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

	Hmm, what do you mean by "IP Hopper". Are you just trying to be rude? Why? Yes or no - is one allowed to be anonymous on Misplaced Pages? the answer is of course "Yes". If so, what's your actual name instead of just an internet nickname?

	It's worth noting that a number of points in the description were totally incorrect and completely unsourced "urban myths" in the earlier article (such as the total nonsense about "Disney requiring a different ending" and so on) - anyone who has seen the film would realise it was just wrong.

	You insist that "yourself and Edward" strongly disagree with this. But you have not changed it back to the earlier, incorrect information.

	Another good example is the section titled "Sequel". You can simply look up what "Sequel" means in the dictionary. It has nothing to do with a "sequel". It is a "spin-off" or some sort of related movie.

	Can you simply STATE something that I "claimed was wrong" that was not in fact wrong? That is a very very straightforward question.

	Can you STATE one issue that you and Edward "strongly disagree" with?

	Are you able to do that>

	You seem to have a panic about the fact that I had to "SHOUT" in caps a few times to get some attention from "Edward". the problem was, Edward was simply reverting anything else anyone would do.

	Do you understand that that sort of behavior is not really the right approach on Wiki?

	It's worth noting that you have now completely rewritten the description, for no reason. Your writing style is choppy, not very smooth (just one oerson's opinion of course) - the previous version which built up over time was really quite good. But the point is you've simply swapped one totally acceptable description article, for another one written by yourself - with no real discernible reason or difference.

	Are "yourself and Edward" desperate for "ownership" of this page? Or? Is it a common problem on wikipedia that you get fans who really "want ownership" of a particular page?

	It all seems a bit strange.

	Anyway, I am standing by, all ears, ready for you to STATE one specific issue that you and Edward "strongly disagree" with???

	signed, Anonymous <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 20:13, 2 March 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


	Incidentally there are quite a few plain errors (e.g., "accepts 'her' offer", sentences in wrong order, etc) in this baffling new rewrite.

	Since this is clearly now a page where one or two contrubutors feel they really "own" the page, I urge you to at least proofread.

	You'v also completely forgotten to mention the major subplot regarding Yuko (although you appear to be, may I say extremely keen, to mention certain extremely minor details which seem completely pointless in a plot description.)

	] (]) 20:30, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
	:Please ]. ]. And we need to remove extraneous details per ] to make it more concise and remove trivial information. It will also help if you are more ], as there is no need to be irritated. Also, I think the appropriate title change for the "sequel" would be "spin-off". ] ] (] - ]) 20:39, 2 March 2012 (UTC)


	For some time, you and/or Edward simply reverted any edit anyone made. Do you understand that sentence? it is very straightforward.

	Allow me to repeat: . For some time, you and/or Edward simply reverted any edit anyone made. And you now say "No one is trying to own the article in any way".

	Are you kidding?

	Secondly - beyond all belief and totally against every reasonable standard on Misplaced Pages, you and/or Edward have simply DELETED material on the talk page - such as actual factual source information - and you have done that over and over again. You now say "no need to be irritated". Is this a joke?

	Once again, allow me to repeat: beyond all belief and totally against every reasonable standard on Misplaced Pages, you and/or Edward have simply DELETED material on the talk page - such as actual factual source information - and you have done that over and over again.

	Regarding the trivial issue of "spin-off" it's great that you and/or Edward now wants to change it to "spin-off" - do you work in the industry, TV? I already wrote a long passage in this talk page discussing why "spin-off" is probably not the best choice. Of course, you and/or Edward deleted that.

	The whole situation is incredible, and very unfortunate.

	I've never seen anyone so totally keen to maintain control of a fairly unimportant Wiki page, to the point of being wildly, blatantly, openly rude as outlined - point by point - clearly above.

	Of course - you'll probably now just delete this talk page.

	Right?

	No adult has time for silliness like this:

	I urge you ("and/or Edward" who writes identically, makes the identical mistakes, rewrites things in the identical way) to try to adopt a more relaxed, - indeed polite - community-oriented approach in your Wikipediaing.

	I urge you to at least correct the huge bloopers in the current version. I assume you don't even speak Japanese, right? A good idea is when you play the DVD or recent BluRay, you can find a set of subtitles which give something of a transliteration of the original Japanese. This might point the way to see what is going on. Good luck.

	] (]) 22:05, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

	== incorrect use of "translation" ==

	As already explained - at great length - the lyrics in the film (both the Japanese and ENglish versions of the film), have utterly no connection to a "TRANSLATION". In japanese the girls talk about writing new lyrics; same in the English version. In Japanese the lyrics have utterly no connection to the original John Devnver song, same in the English version.

	I urge anyone very keen on editing this page to go ahead and correct this very obvious error.

	] (]) 20:20, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

	==Not clear==
	{{Resolved\|The paragraph in question has been clarified. ] ] (] - ]) 03:00, 3 March 2012 (UTC)}}
	The article says ''"....Shizuku looks through the checkout cards in the local library books and discovers that they were checked out by a person named Seiji Amasawa"''. Is that supposed to mean Shizuki looked through the cards in books she had borrowed from the library, or looked at the cards at every book in the library? Needs calirification. ] (]) 00:53, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

			Building on the above "short example", here is JUST AN EXAMPLE of how someone will need to write this article.
	I clarified this in the article. (It's the former.) ] (]) 00:56, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

			The current article is a non-starter as it simply describes only half or less of the movie. We must also be mindful of the excellent points made by the new editor above ..
	The current article, is riddled with problems like this. For no understandable reason, the two users who seem to be completely controlling the page (i.e..:reverting every edit, deleting the talk page) completely rewrote the page in the last iteration. This new rewrite is riddled with errors and confusion. Major parts of the story are simply missing, completely pointless detail is included, and there is error after error and poor grammar. You need only revert to the last complete version of the plot description, which was perfectly correct. (It was way too long, but it is impossible to remove the pointless detail from the article, because Edward reverts any edit that removes said pointless detail.) ] (]) 06:30, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
	==And==
	''"Her college sibling, Shiho, also lives there"''. What does that mean? ] (]) 08:25, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

			* avoid even the "impression of" peacock words or POV
	== "Fourteen" ? ==

			* get the length right
	Shizuku's age is given as 14. Suggest one of the page owners should fix this. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 13:31, 3 March 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

			We can add to this (one would assume)
	== "her offer"... ==

			* it must actually describe all of the movie, not just the first half of the movie where "the lovers meet"
	There appears to be a typo in the last sentence.
	] (]) 13:36, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

			* there should be no incredibly detailed descriptions of "famous beloved" scenes
	== "He tells her..." ==

			Here we go. Hopefully someone who has the right to edit this page, can take a couple of hours to write an article something like this suggestion. Good luck!
	In the last paragraph. "He tells her he has decided to finish junior high school, then go back to Cremona to study as a luthier."

			SUGGESTED ONLY article suggestion, with (1) completely avoid 'peacock/POV' problem (2) length (3) include all of the movie (4) no detailed scene descriptions of "favourite scenes". <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 10:05, 4 March 2012 (UTC)</small>
	Note that this is incorrect.

			: Yes, well, at least the current page is in English instead of the gibberish you produce. ] (]) 07:50, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
	Seiji is accepted by the master in Cremona, and will be going back to Cremona straight away - he will not be attending high school in Japan.

			== Requested move ==
	He explains this when they first get on the bicycle, near her apartment building. (Just after she mentions it's like a dream.)

			<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:polltop -->
	Note that: in the "Disney Dub" a number of things are changed (just as in most Ghibli movies) ... in the English-language version he does indeed say that he will finish high school first (there is also new material in the Disney Dub version about how he is not yet good enough, etc)
			:''The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. ''

			The result of the proposal was '''moved'''. --] (]) 19:38, 21 February 2013 (UTC) {{RMnac}}
	Given that it is one of the all-time favourite movies in Japan, the biggest in 1995, it would be really unfortunate for Misplaced Pages to describe the plot in terms of the US "Disney Dub".

			] → {{no redirect\|Whisper of the Heart}} – No need for disambiguation since there is no other article titled "Whisper of the Heart". I guess the article is at the current title because the manga that it's based on had its own article (]) but it was merged last year. ] (]) 22:16, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
	If the page owners truly want to include this, I suggest at least a comment that this is "In the American version"
			*'''Support''' No need for disambiguation here. <small>]</small>] 17:22, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
			*'''Support''' because the film appears to be the primary topic when compared to the manga. It seems possible to have an article about the manga, but I think it would be disambiguated. Basically, ] can be the film article, and ] can be the manga article if there is enough sourcing and effort. It can be similar to the setup of ] (a film) and its source material ]. ] (] \| ]) 17:35, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
			::Actually, I think it we did a manga article it would need to be at Mimi wo Sumaseba since unlike the anime it was never released in the West and therefore was never called Whisper of the Heart.--] (]) 00:10, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
			*'''Support''' - the film is the primary topic. There is absolutely no need for a disambiguation here. We could use this as the main page and the manga on a separate page. For example, Grave of the Fireflies has two disambiguated pages: ] and ]. ] (] - ]) 17:57, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
			:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.''</div><!-- Template:pollbottom -->

			== Setting part ==
	For the record: note that this section is also in completely the WRONG place in the article.

			In the "Setting" section, it notes that there are "three shops where fans of the movie meet". Which ones are they? I don't know, so I can't add them. ] (]) 21:08, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
	Also just for the record, the words utter by David in the English version are that he's decided "to finish High School". not "junior" high school.
			:I've gone ahead and removed § Setting; it was not written particularly clearly, and was completely unsourced to boot. It was also giving me a whiff of ]. <span class="nowrap">—]</span> (]) 08:44, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

			== About the recent reversions ==
	Also just to be clear, this is way too detailed - it doesn't need to be mentioned at all.

			Hey ], thanks for your contributions to this article. In response to ], ], so the English Misplaced Pages is under no obligation to make any particular statement just because the Japanese Misplaced Pages does. Also, the original statement being unsourced is a valid reason to remove it, not replace it with another unsourced statement. Let me know your thoughts on this. <span class="nowrap">—]</span> <small>(])</small> 06:05, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
	<span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 13:46, 3 March 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
			: Yeah, I know about the whole "Misplaced Pages is not valid source for Misplaced Pages" thing. To be fair, I made these edits in a bit of a hurry. However, I've since found a couple of sources that state that 1) The “Cat Returns” manga was actually released on March 2002, not May 2002, unlike what the article on “The Cat Returns” claims, and 2) the manga was apparently a request to Aoi Hiiragi from Miyazaki to serve as a companion for the release of the film, so it is more than likely that the story of the manga and the script of the film were written at approximately the same time, kinda similar to what happened for the novel and the film “2001: A Space Odyssey”, if you’re familiar with it. So I bet the best way to phrase this is to write something along the lines of “A spin-off of Mimi o Sumaseba, titled Baron: Neko no Danshaku, was published in March 2002, and an animated movie based on that story was released in July 2002 under the name The Cat Returns.” What do you think? Obviously, I’ll add the proper sources along with it. ] (]) 06:26, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
			::If the sources don't mention anything about one being based on the other, then the article shouldn't either. I think it would be appropriate to mention the timeline of when each one was published, but making inferences about their creation past that point would be wandering into ] territory. Which sources are you looking at, by the way? <span class="nowrap">—]</span> <small>(])</small> 15:03, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
			:::I've already made the change. Please have a look.--] (]) 15:36, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

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Material from Whisper of the Heart was split to Whisper of the Heart on 07:38, 10 December 2009. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted so long as the latter page exists. Please leave this template in place to link the article histories and preserve this attribution.

The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future:

Galbraith, Stuart (4 June 2012). "Whisper of the Heart (Blu-ray)". DVD Talk. – |author-suffix=IV?
Osmond, Andrew (11 January 2012). "Whisper of the Heart". Anime News Network. Westmount, Quebec.

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved. --BDD (talk) 19:38, 21 February 2013 (UTC) (non-admin closure)

Whisper of the Heart (film) → Whisper of the Heart – No need for disambiguation since there is no other article titled "Whisper of the Heart". I guess the article is at the current title because the manga that it's based on had its own article (Mimi wo Sumaseba) but it was merged last year. Mika1h (talk) 22:16, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Support No need for disambiguation here. BOVINEBOY2008 17:22, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
Support because the film appears to be the primary topic when compared to the manga. It seems possible to have an article about the manga, but I think it would be disambiguated. Basically, Whisper of the Heart can be the film article, and Whisper of the Heart (manga) can be the manga article if there is enough sourcing and effort. It can be similar to the setup of Road to Perdition (a film) and its source material Road to Perdition (comics). Erik (talk | contribs) 17:35, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Actually, I think it we did a manga article it would need to be at Mimi wo Sumaseba since unlike the anime it was never released in the West and therefore was never called Whisper of the Heart.--174.93.160.57 (talk) 00:10, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Support - the film is the primary topic. There is absolutely no need for a disambiguation here. We could use this as the main page and the manga on a separate page. For example, Grave of the Fireflies has two disambiguated pages: Grave of the Fireflies and Grave of the Fireflies (novel). Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 17:57, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Setting part

In the "Setting" section, it notes that there are "three shops where fans of the movie meet". Which ones are they? I don't know, so I can't add them. 2600:8802:3A0B:3000:8044:EEC8:BA68:4204 (talk) 21:08, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and removed § Setting; it was not written particularly clearly, and was completely unsourced to boot. It was also giving me a whiff of fancruft. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 08:44, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

About the recent reversions

Hey Johnn Francis, thanks for your contributions to this article. In response to this edit summary, Misplaced Pages is not a reliable source, so the English Misplaced Pages is under no obligation to make any particular statement just because the Japanese Misplaced Pages does. Also, the original statement being unsourced is a valid reason to remove it, not replace it with another unsourced statement. Let me know your thoughts on this. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 06:05, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, I know about the whole "Misplaced Pages is not valid source for Misplaced Pages" thing. To be fair, I made these edits in a bit of a hurry. However, I've since found a couple of sources that state that 1) The “Cat Returns” manga was actually released on March 2002, not May 2002, unlike what the article on “The Cat Returns” claims, and 2) the manga was apparently a request to Aoi Hiiragi from Miyazaki to serve as a companion for the release of the film, so it is more than likely that the story of the manga and the script of the film were written at approximately the same time, kinda similar to what happened for the novel and the film “2001: A Space Odyssey”, if you’re familiar with it. So I bet the best way to phrase this is to write something along the lines of “A spin-off of Mimi o Sumaseba, titled Baron: Neko no Danshaku, was published in March 2002, and an animated movie based on that story was released in July 2002 under the name The Cat Returns.” What do you think? Obviously, I’ll add the proper sources along with it. Johnn Francis (talk) 06:26, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

If the sources don't mention anything about one being based on the other, then the article shouldn't either. I think it would be appropriate to mention the timeline of when each one was published, but making inferences about their creation past that point would be wandering into original research territory. Which sources are you looking at, by the way? —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 15:03, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

I've already made the change. Please have a look.--Johnn Francis (talk) 15:36, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Categories:

Latest revision as of 18:59, 7 September 2024

Suggested APPROACH for the article: correct length, tone, and detail.

Requested move

Setting part

About the recent reversions