| Revision as of 03:16, 26 June 2012 editMelanieN (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users91,573 edits →Victoria Pynchon← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 01:00, 27 June 2012 edit undoTimotheus Canens (talk | contribs)Edit filter managers, Administrators38,430 edits {{subst:afd-privacy}} | ||
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| ''The result was '''Trainwreck halted'''. The actual discussion has been ] but can still be accessed by following the "history" link at the top of the page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a ]). <span style="color:red">'''No further edits should be made to this page.'''</span>'' __NOINDEX__<!-- inserted using Template:afd-privacy --></div> | |||
| {{REMOVE THIS TEMPLATE WHEN CLOSING THIS AfD|B}} | |||
| :{{la|Victoria Pynchon}} – (<includeonly>]</includeonly><noinclude>]</noinclude>{{•}} <span class="plainlinks"></span>) | |||
| :({{Find sources|Victoria Pynchon}}) | |||
| Several IP editors at ] have asked that this page be deleted, so I am nominating this article on their behalf. Arguments for deletion are that the page is merely a resume written by Pynchon herself, and that, as an attorney, her accomplishments are not unusual or notable. ] ] 04:41, 25 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| This page appears to have been created by Ms. Pynchon herself. It does not satisfy the notability requirement, as its contents describe nothing more than a garden variety attorney in career twilight. While the article states that Ms. Pynchon is known for the ForbesWoman "She Negotiates" blog, this blog is not noteworthy, and garners few views. It appears that Ms. Pynchon is deliberately holding herself out as a writer for Forbes, however this is not the case. Forbes permits anyone to operate a blog on their site, much like blogspot.com. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.47.140.134 (talk) 21:20, 24 June 2012 (UTC) {{SPA|24.47.140.134}} | |||
| * According to a contributor on Forbes, . It is not a public blog like blogspot and wordpress; e.g., I could not find anywhere to "start a blog" on Forbes as you can do on blogspot. Instead, it seems more similar to The Huffington Post and The Daily Beast. ] (]) 17:34, 25 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| ** I looked at the page and its edit history and saw no evidence that Pynchon wrote the author, nor any evidence that the main contributor AuthorAuthor (talk · contribs) is Pynchon, either. If you plan on making accusations like that, you need some actual evidence. D O N D E groovily Talk to me 23:01, 24 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| ***I love your your reply sidesteps the notability issue. This woman is a nobody. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.59.51.145 (talk) 02:26, 25 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| ****Oh please. The Victoria Pynchon article wreaks of self promotion. Have a look at authorauthor's profile. He/she has previously been alleged to have been a paid editor, specifically within the context of the Pynchon article (and a number of other advertisements that have been deleted). And regardless of whether or not the article was penned by a pro, the point stands that this article does not meet the notability requirement, and for that reason does not belong on Misplaced Pages. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.47.140.134 (talk) 01:54, 25 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| *****@Donde - This is a resume, not an article. Where are the in-depth 3rd party sources about her as the notability requirement calls for ? Please find some or else put this up for deletion, thanks 2604:2000:FFC0:61:7D4F:E18E:F843:81F1 (talk) 02:19, 25 June 2012 (UTC) {{SPA|2604:2000:FFC0:61:7D4F:E18E:F843:81F1}} | |||
| *Notability, notability, notability. How does this person meet the guidelines? There is nothing notable about this lawyer, she is just shamelessly self promoting. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.132.71.231 (talk) 03:23, 25 June 2012 (UTC) {{SPA|69.132.71.231}} | |||
| **I agree. She is a regular lawyer posting her resume. It should be deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.61.154.128 (talk) 03:25, 25 June 2012 (UTC) {{SPA|174.61.154.128}} | |||
| *Pynchon persists in deleting my neutral and factual account of the "Forbes: Is Law School Still a Golden Ticket?" section - the only section in this shameless self-promotion that may be worthy of remaining on Misplaced Pages. Nothing about her is notable. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 09:14, 25 June 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><small>— ] (] • ]) has made ] outside this topic. </small> | |||
| *'''Delete'''. I looked through all the references, and many of them are self-published or unreliable. Of the few that are from reputable sources, some don't even seem to mention her name, and others are just database listings about the fact that she is accredited. —'''<span style="font-family:monospace;">]]]</span>''' 07:24, 25 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Delete'''. There appears to be nothing notable about this person. ] (]) 12:29, 25 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Delete'''. Only one of the external links is to a website run by someone other than Pynchon. Three of them are broken. The working links are to her Facebook, Linkedin, Twitter, and personal blog. Her list of accomplishments is long, but this in and of itself does not constitute notability. For example, notability on law school faculty lists is usually only reserved for tenured law scholars with long publication records who are exemplary in their field- Pynchon is not tenured or a well-known scholar. None of her writings seemed to have been published in notable sources (notable enough to get their own Wiki page). The article mentions two law journals she was cited, not published in. Law journals often have hundreds or thousands of works cited per article, this is not notable. Her books have their own wiki page, created by the same authorauthor of her individual page. I would think this article could be salvaged if there was ONE substantial or significant event or fact about her life. The most notable things as far as I can tell are that she was profiled once in a trade journal, once moderated a panel with Gloria Steinem, and got into a spat with anonymous commentators on her personal blog. Even if notability could be established I think think the article would still need to be seriously cut. Her list of speaking engagements (none of which seem to be notable), list of admissions, and publications all seem like self-promotion.] (]) 18:29, 25 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Keep'''. Extensive sourcing demonstrates that the subject clearly meets the GNG. I will check the broken links that have been pointed out. NPR, The New York Times, and the Daily News are included as sources, which are not "self-published or unreliable" per a comment above. The discussion here seems to focus on whether she should be notable, which isn't really among the deletion criteria. I will improve the article, find more third-party sources, and cleanup what has been called resume-like. Thank you. ] (]) 14:52, 25 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| ::Sorry, but whether she is notable is absolutely central to whether the page should be deleted. Articles on non-notable people are deleted (see ]). --] (]) 15:42, 25 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| :::AuthorAuthor is correct is saying that the question of whether or not the subject ''should'' be notable is not a valid part of the deletion criteria. The question is whether or not the subject ''is'' notable. That said, I disagree with AA's assertion that much of this discussion focuses on the former, as most of the comments appear to address the latter point.--] (]) 16:24, 25 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| ::Where are these sources to the NYT and NYDN? I cannot find them in the source list.] (]) 18:29, 25 June 2012 (UTC)<small>— ] (] • ]) has made ] outside this topic. </small> | |||
| *'''Delete''' per nom. & others. Subject does not appear to have significant coverage in ] ] sources. As others have noted, what mentions there are of her in reputable sources are generally trivial. Fails ] & ].--] (]) 16:15, 25 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| :<small class="delsort-notice">Note: This debate has been included in the ]. ★☆ ]☆★ 16:26, 25 June 2012 (UTC)<!--Template:Deletion sorting--></small> | |||
| :<small class="delsort-notice">Note: This debate has been included in the ]. ★☆ ]☆★ 16:26, 25 June 2012 (UTC)<!--Template:Deletion sorting--></small> | |||
| :<small class="delsort-notice">Note: This debate has been included in the ]. ★☆ ]☆★ 16:26, 25 June 2012 (UTC)<!--Template:Deletion sorting--></small> | |||
| *'''Strong Keep'''. There appears to be an active campaign by ] to take down Ms. Pynchon, as noted on their site, which includes the question "shouldn't the first order of business be to get her Misplaced Pages page deleted?" Here is . Here's another about their campaign against Pynchon. It also appears the AutoAdmit members posted the controversy, which appears to have been started by anti-law school folks and bragged about on the AutoAdmit site, and now included in Ms. Pynchon's Misplaced Pages article. Are AutoAdmit campaigns allowed to accomplish their agendas and campaigns via Misplaced Pages by, for their own purposes, asking admins to nominate pages for deletion? Sobering stuff. ] (]) 17:02, 25 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| ::Whether Autoadmit begun this campaign to have the article reviewed for notability is irrelevant to whether Ms. Pynchon is notable or not. Ms. Pynchon may very well not be notable and it was only the attention garnered through AA (or through her post on her Forbes blog) that brought this to light. If you can make a persuasive argument to why she is notable to rebut any of the arguments above, please do so. The most notable thing about her right now seems to be that she was the subject of some minor controversy on a widely read legal blog (Paul Campos's Inside the Law School Scam).] (]) 17:21, 25 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| :::I have to agree that it is irrelevant why the deletion nomination was started. The only real question is does the subject of the article meet Misplaced Pages's notability requirements. I do not believe that she does. ] (]) 21:13, 25 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| *'''STRONG OWNED''' and '''STRONG DELETE''' There's nothing notable here. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 17:42, 25 June 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><small>— ] (] • ]) has made ] outside this topic. </small> | |||
| *'''Delete''', although the subject has had brief mentions in multiple sources, some being ], there hasn't been significant coverage of the subject herself to pass ] in my humble opinion. Additionally, although she appears to be published in a law review journal she does not appear to pass ].--] (]) 18:03, 25 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Delete''', subject does not meet the notability requirements, all opposing views invoke mere collateral attacks and do not make any claim to stay that subject is actually notable. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 18:40, 25 June 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--><small>— ] (] • ]) has made ] outside this topic. </small> | |||
| *'''Delete''', subject does not meet the notability requirements. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 20:35, 25 June 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| *'''Comment''' Without commenting on the subject's notability or fitness for inclusion here, or lack of same, I am absolutely APPALLED at the obvious ganging up on this subject by an organized group from outside Misplaced Pages, and at the viciousness of the attacks on her at that site, apparently because she "drew the ire of the entire interwebs for her ridiculous encouragement of some idiot's fourth tier law school dream". The posters at that unmonitored comment site then encouraged each other to "googlebomb the living shit out of her" and "get her Misplaced Pages page deleted". I would like to see this nomination withdrawn, and then resubmitted with semi-protection, so that we can discuss this as Wikipedians instead of as the sounding board for an attack posse. --] (]) 23:14, 25 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Comment''' Victoria Pynchon would probably prefer that the page be deleted now. Her reputation has been trashed on the internet now by the Paul Campos comments on "Inside the Law School Scam". Victoria Pynchon is an average lawyer who made the mistake of shilling for low ranked law school despite massive evidence that they are a huge mistake these days. Her detractors clearly realized that her Wiki page is merely a resume and doesn't deserve to exist, so they decided to focus on that as a point of attack. So be it. They are correct, the Wiki page is just a resume. It deserves to be deleted. The detractors are corrrect. ] (]) 23:37, 25 June 2012 (UTC) {{SPA|Cattleprod1}} | |||
| *'''Comment''' I have been ] that semiprotection is not appropriate, so I will try to evaluate the article on its merits. Note to the lynch mob: you are actually HURTING your cause by your wolfpack techniques. If you guys would back off and let the real Wikipedians take a look at the article, maybe we would agree with you that she is not notable. But this discussion is so thrashed by your mob attacks that it is hard to even consider the question rationally. --] (]) 00:36, 26 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| *OK, on the merits: '''Weak delete'''. Most of what is found at Google News is written by her; the rest is people quoting her on some issue, which does not amount to "significant" coverage. Same at Google Books. No presence at all on Google Scholar. I conclude that she is not notable as Misplaced Pages defines it. --] (]) 00:47, 26 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Delete''' Possibly the worst references I have ever seen. I removed some from the article that didn't even mention her. ] ] 01:03, 26 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Strong keep''', per the fact that IP and SPA hounds organised off-site for the purpose of trolling. The subject meets all the notability requirements I've checked up on. ] <sup>(]|])</sup> 01:04, 26 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| ::This is irrational. If anything, she wrote a link bait piece of Forbes that enraged a lot of people -- as was its intention -- and people googled her name and found a wiki page that looked to be written by a PR firm. They then started asking for deletion for failing to meet the notability requirement. Why does it gall you so much that people are correctly pointing out that per wiki policy, she shouldn't exist? Just because we don't have usernames? The issue is: does she meet the notability requirement. The issue is not: do the outsides have issues with the author. --] (]) 01:32, 26 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Comment''' I've cleaned up the article some. Added ''Newsday'' source/citation. Rermoved resume-like material -- still working on it, Thank you. ] (]) 01:05, 26 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Comment''' My opinion "weak delete" stands. Valedictorian of her junior high school? Come on! --] (]) 01:12, 26 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| ::If that doesn't tell you that VP is editing her own page, what do you need? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 01:25, 26 June 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| :::Whoever you are (we call you a ]), this kind of accusation is not only uncalled for - it is stupid. If you knew anything about Misplaced Pages, you would readily be able to tell that User AuthorAuthor has been on Misplaced Pages for 4 1/2 years, editing and creating all kinds of articles, until he/she finally decided 3 months ago to create an article about Victoria Pynchon. As I said above, you are damaging your own cause with this kind of idiocy. If you look at the discussion, you will notice that experienced Wikipedians are weighing in on the merits and are mostly coming up with "delete". If you guys would just back off and let us apply Misplaced Pages guidelines, you might be happy with the result. But your continued attacks on the subject, and on the editors who dare to support the subject, are making it really hard to stay objective. --] (]) 02:03, 26 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| ****Melanie sorry if I don't know how to format this comment correctly but look two comments down from this (which I will c/p in case she deletes it: "Comment - Please read the newly edited article. I have added reliable sources/citations (Parade magazine, ABA Journal, etc.) and removed minor info (my apologies for including that info; it won't happen again). AuthorAuthor (talk) 02:25, 26 June 2012 (UTC)") and explain how that doesn't positively prove that the editor 'authorauthor' is actually VP? Unless there's another reason she would be using "I" in her comments and apologizing.**** | |||
| ::::::I am trying to assume good faith, as Misplaced Pages requires, but it is getting hard - can you really be this clueless? AuthorAuthor's use of "I" in that comment is clearly talking about himself/herself as author of the article - talking about the changes he/she made in the article ("I have added") and errors he/she made in writing it ("my apologies"). You might see my comment below, where I point out that "I" was the one who deleted something from the article. How else are we supposed to describe our editing actions, if not with "I" and "my"? --] (]) 03:08, 26 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Delete'''. Subject does not seem to meet the notability guidelines - writing a few articles and blogs is not notable enough for inclusion on Misplaced Pages.--] (]) 01:32, 26 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Comment''' - Please read the newly edited article. I have added reliable sources/citations (Parade magazine, ABA Journal, etc.) and removed minor info (my apologies for including that info; it won't happen again). ] (]) 02:25, 26 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| :: Victoria, stop trying to save your silly Wiki page. This is a joke. You are a nobody. ] (]) 03:10, 26 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Comment''' I also noticed that AuthorAuthor sanitized it by removing the only part that would make VP notable. The referance from Law Prof Paul Campos on 'Inside The Law School Scam' has been convieniently removed by AuthorAuthor. If the article is going to remain, relevant negative information will also remain. Stop trying to cover for Victoria Pynchon. She is an average lawyer and below average mediator. She has been identified as a law school shill that that will remain as part of her record now. I will be adding it back into the article. Do not remove it again. ] (]) 02:51, 26 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| ::Please learn to be accurate in your accusations. AuthorAuthor did not remove that section; I did. I removed it because it had no ] - only opinion blogs and discussion boards. If you restore it, I will remove it again - unless you can find and add some coverage of this supposed controversy from Reliable Sources as Misplaced Pages defines it. You can find the definition of Reliable Sources at the link I just posted. --] (]) 02:56, 26 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| ::: That is exactly the point. There is nothing on this silly lawyer, Victoria Pynchon, except self written blogs and shameless self promotion. If anything is going to be on Wiki, it is going to be the bad along with the good. You are not going to be allowed to sanitize this shameless shill for 3rd and 4th tier law schools. Delete the entire page or allow the negative to remain with the BS. End of debate, you remove it, I will add it. Every single day ] (]) 03:07, 26 June 2012 (UTC) | |||
| ::: Please see ]. If you get in an edit war over this, which means making the same edit over and over, you could be banned from posting at Misplaced Pages at all. This kind of editing dispute can only be settled by consensus input from other editors, and I will invite the other discussants here to look at the section (I linked to it in my previous comment) and see if there is anything there which is adequately sourced for a Misplaced Pages article. Here's a hint: the fact that somebody said something about a person on a discussion board is not adequately sourced for Misplaced Pages. Neither is the ranting of someone at an opinion blog. Find us published, reliable sources for this "controversy" and we can keep it. --] (]) 03:15, 26 June 2012 (UTC) | |||