Revision as of 05:21, 15 October 2012 editAfricangenesis (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users1,174 edits →Unclean hands defense vis'a'vis IRWolfie-: deception presentation of evidence above← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 20:29, 25 December 2024 edit undoWalter Tau (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users3,878 edits →Statement by Walter Tau | ||
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==M.Bitton== | |||
== Antidiskriminator == | |||
{{hat|result=M.Bitton is warned against ] and reminded to abide by ]. ] (]) 06:35, 19 December 2024 (UTC)}} | |||
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> | |||
===Request concerning M.Bitton=== | |||
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.'' | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|XDanielx}} 07:55, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|M.Bitton}}<p>{{ds/log|M.Bitton}}</p> | |||
===Request concerning Antidiskriminator=== | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : ] (]) 02:40, 5 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: | |||
] | |||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | |||
I'll limit this to ] related issues for now, since they're easiest to evaluate with minimal context. | |||
# {{tq|xDanielx being disingenuous again (what they mean by "no explanation" is "no explanation that they agree with")}} | |||
# {{tq|casting aspersions to justify your disruptive editing is about as low as it gets ... this is extremely disingenuous ... made-up rules and demands to satisfy you}} | |||
# {{tq|please don't make-up another rule ... maybe that's because you only see what you want to see}} (partly struck per admin request) | |||
# , {{tq|Misplaced Pages is not a collection of every piece of alleged garbage}} | |||
# {{tq|When someone keeps misrepresenting the sources (again and again), then I will rightly assume disingenuousness}} | |||
# {{tq|I'm starting to question your motives}} | |||
# {{tq|Please refrain from repeating your lies}} ( to {{tq|You're being extremely disingenuous. You misrepresented the sources (clearly to push a POV)}} | |||
# {{tq|I don't take lessons from those who misrepresent the sources and edit war over ]}} | |||
# {{tq|please don't attribute your nonsense to me (this is totally unacceptable)}} | |||
# {{tq|Bobfrombrockley is busy adding whatever garbage they can find}} | |||
# {{tq|you've been very busy adding whatever garbage you could find to the article}} | |||
# {{tq|Do you expect me to explain to you what "freedom of expression" is?}} | |||
# {{tq|I'm done wasting my time with this nonsense ... Your self-serving opinion is irrelevant}} | |||
# offensive humor | |||
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : | |||
I'm not aware of CTOP sanctions. The seems to show four blocks, but they're not that recent and I'm not sure how relevant they are. | |||
; If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]): | |||
* Was a subject of a previous ARBPIA AE ]. | |||
* Made a couple other statements in ARBPIA AE requests: , | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | |||
Another 15 diffs were (rightfully) removed by an admin for exceeding the diff limit as well as falling outside PIA scope; just mentioning for transparency. They might be relevant on a different forum but admittedly not here. — ] <sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub>\<sup>]</sup> 16:37, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
{{yo|theleekycauldron}} I planned to file something after the "garbage" comments (about BobFromBrockley) on ]. I reconsidered after being surprised by M.Bitton's there. Admittedly M.Bitton's comments in the thread above prompted me to reconsider again, but that wasn't about the fact that I might receive a warning there (irrespective of M.Bitton's participation); it was just about me personally being on the receiving end of some personal attacks. I don't really follow why me being emotionally affected by the conduct would affect the legitimacy of the report. Most of the incivility was directed at other users, and letting this conduct continue wouldn't seem fair to them. — ] <sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub>\<sup>]</sup> 16:41, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
===Discussion concerning M.Bitton=== | |||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | |||
====Statement by M.Bitton==== | |||
Not content with edit warring, assuming bad faith and casting aspersions (see ]), they now decided to ] and file a retaliatory report. ] (]) 09:56, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:{{re|Vanamonde93|Ealdgyth}} I just want to draw your attention to their aspersions casting {{tq|tag-team revert|q=yes}} (], while striking it, leaves no doubt about they believe) and the fact that they falsely accused me: of ignoring their ping (when I was logged out) and reverting without an explanation (when, in fact, I did provide one). ] (]) 18:04, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
::{{re|Ealdgyth}} I agree and will make sure that doesn't happen in the future, regardless of what's coming the other way. I should know better than let myself take the bait, but lesson learnt nonetheless. ] (]) 18:14, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::{{re|Valereee}} sure. ] (]) 00:36, 11 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by (username)==== | |||
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. --> | |||
===Result concerning M.Bitton=== | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. --> | |||
*<!-- | |||
--> | |||
* This is shamelessly and obviously a retaliatory filing, and I'm leaning towards a one- or two-way interaction ban to stop the back-and-forth sniping. But I'd still draw uninvolved admins' attention to ] and ask what their thoughts are. That seems like pretty battleground-y behavior to me. ] (] • she/her) 14:27, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:I see it as a bit retaliatory, but we do need to stop this sniping, especially at AE and other such venues. ] (]) 14:36, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*::Yeah, a logged warning sounds like enough to me, given their responses so far. ] (] • she/her) 00:36, 11 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*Yes, this is retaliatory, and at the same time, M. Bitton's language is not acceptable. Bad behavior should be addressed at an administrator noticeboard, or in a civil post to a user talk page, not with what SFR accurately describes as sniping. I would log a warning for casting aspersions. ] (]) 17:15, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
* I agree with SFR and Vanamonde93 that the language used does not help the topic area at all. I don't know if M.Bitton's had a long history of logged warnings before (I'm a bit busy trying to get the farm ready for an artic clipper coming in) but I'm fine with a logged warning. But the filer should be aware that they need to also try to avoid retaliatory-filing look in the future... ] (]) 17:48, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
** I'm not happy about Daniel's behavior (but will try to find time to look at it in the earlier filing to avoid getting this one off track) but, M.Bitton, your comments are not just sub-par, but not at all what editors should be directing at others. An acknowledgment of that and working to avoid that in the future is something you need to seriously consider if you're not going to end up sanctioned in the future. ] (]) 18:08, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I also think a logged warning should be adequate here, particularly given the limited sanctions history and the . Personally I'm not bothered by the timing of this report in light of xDanielx's explanation, although it's wise to avoid even the appearance of retaliation when you're at AE. ] (]) 22:44, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I don't disagree that this is retaliatory, but that doesn't moot the issue. M.Bitton does tend to approach editing in a battleground-y way, and their language often escalates rather than de-escalates. I'd very much like you to start using de-escalating language, {{u|M.Bitton}}. Can you discuss that? ] (]) 00:27, 11 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:I meant can you discuss it ''here'', but maybe I wasn't clear. ] (]) 15:56, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*Have not read this but will note that {{u| xDanielx}} is at their word limit. Daniel if you want to post anything else please get an extension first from an uninvolved administrator. ] (]) 02:48, 11 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*Comment to stave off the bot. Looks like the proposed resolution here is a warning for battleground behavior, does that still seem the way to go? ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 09:07, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:A logged warning, sure. ] (]) 15:54, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*::Agreed, and I also agree we should put this to bed. ] (]) 20:52, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
{{hab}} | |||
==Ethiopian Epic== | |||
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> | |||
===Request concerning Ethiopian Epic=== | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Tinynanorobots}} 11:23, 12 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Ethiopian Epic}}<p>{{ds/log|Ethiopian Epic}}</p> | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Antidiskriminator}} | |||
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | <!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | ||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] | ;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] | ||
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | <!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | ||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | ; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | ||
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. --> | <!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.--> | ||
# created during the Yasuke case and went active when it ended. First 11 edits were to Government of Japan. In one case three edits were used to write one sentence. | |||
#] and ] from 9/08/12 onwards, User:Antidiskriminator has created nearly two dozen separate sections on ] about supposed deficiencies in ] causing a great deal of disruption with only minor improvement to the article but until 03/10/12 refused to substantively edit in article space to address the supposed deficiencies, instead expecting the editors that had helped promote the article to MILHIST A-Class and FA to do so apparently in order to gather evidence that those editors are not abiding by ] in relation to the general topic of ] - ] was a Chetnik. See also . | |||
# Manually reverted the lead back to how it was in September. | |||
# 12/09/12 Started a second RM immediately after an RM was closed '''Not Moved'''. This RM was also closed (on 21 August 2012) with the result '''Not Moved'''. Disruption and failure to accept a lack of consensus for a title change. | |||
# Falsely Claimed cited material was OR. (G | |||
# 29/09/12 Dominated this thread making observations about the alleged behaviour of editors opposing a title change. Disruption and failure to accept a lack of consensus for a title change. | |||
# Falsely Claimed cited material was unsourced | |||
# 10/09/12 Started another thread about the title, again making observations about the alleged behaviour of editors opposing a title change. Continued disruption and failure to accept a lack of consensus for a title change. | |||
# |
# It took an ANI report to get him to use the article talk page. His defense was accusations and denial. | ||
# He reverted to a version that went against consensus established on the talk page and contained a falsely sourced quote. | |||
# 18/09/12 Started another thread about the title, again making observations about the alleged behaviour of editors opposing a title change. Same again. | |||
# Engages in sealioning | |||
# 29/09/12 ] but request here to stop has been ignored and the behaviour has continued, and escalated, with specific references being made to the lack of consensus for the RMs at ]. | |||
# Removes a well sourced line from Yasuke as well as reverted an edit that was the result of BRD. He has now started disputes with me on all three Yasuke related articles. | |||
# starts disputing a new section of | |||
# Brought again to ANI, he claims that I didn't get consensus for changes, even though I had discussed them on talk prior to making them. | |||
# He keeps mentioning ONUS, and asking me to discuss it, in response to me discussing. | |||
# Used a non-controversial revert to hide his edit warring. | |||
# did the same thing on List of foreign-born samurai in Japan. | |||
# He also repeatedly complains that he doesn't like the definition because it is vague and claims that his preferred version is "status quo" | |||
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : | |||
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.--> | |||
# Explanation | |||
# Explanation | |||
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):[ | |||
<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. --> | |||
*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on (see the system log linked to above). | |||
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) : | |||
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#Warned on 19/10/10 by {{user|Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry}} in relation to not accepting consensus at ] - I know this is old, but I included it just to show that User:Antidiskriminator has been well aware of the ARBMAC sanctions for a long time and has prior form for not accepting consensus. | |||
#Warned on 17/08/12 by {{user|Future Perfect at Sunrise}} in relation to 3RR/edit-warring on ] | |||
#Warned on 02/09/12 by {{user|PRODUCER}} in relation to edit-warring on ] | |||
#Warned on 06/09/12 by {{user|ZjarriRrethues}} in relation to edit-warring on ] | |||
#Warned on 23/09/12 by {{user|DIREKTOR}} in relation to disruption (ARBMAC) | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | ; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | ||
<!-- Add any further comment here --> | <!-- Add any further comment here --> | ||
I am not sure if this is actually a AE matter, but was told to go here by multiple admins. The biggest issue is the Editing against consensus on accompanied by bludgeoning. However, there are signs of bad faith editing on all three pages where I have interacted with EE. It could also be a CIR issue or it could be some sort of harassment. I don't know. I just know that EE first avoided providing clear reasons for reverting edits and has been trying to engage in Status Quo Stonewalling. He keeps citing Onus or Burden and asks me not to make a change until the discussion is over. Often, this doesn't make sense in context, because the change was in place. He has made false claims about sources and what they say. His editing on Yasuke is not so much a problem as the discussion which comes across as gaslighting. | |||
I consider User:Antidiskriminator has been highly disruptive across several articles which fall under the ARBMAC sanctions for a period of six weeks or more, including a complete failure to accept that there has been a lack of consensus for a title change. I should probably have reported their behaviour before this, but am a relatively new user and have not had much experience with filing reports, especially not at this level. I want to say up-front that I have found User:Antidiskriminator's behaviour very frustrating, and I may have strayed off the civility path on a couple of occasions due to that frustration and numerous provocations. I am aware that is no excuse and accept that I may be sanctioned myself for that, and will take any such sanction with good grace. However, I feel that since DIREKTOR's warning, the ] has taken this beyond the bounds of what could possibly be acceptable and that, combined with User:Antidiskriminator's behaviour on a number of ARBMAC articles, makes it appropriate to file this report now. I just want User:Antidiskriminator to accept when there is no consensus for a move (or edit), stop disrupting articles with long lists of demands on the talkpage and expecting other editors to comply with their demands, and stop ] me (which is in my view directly related to the failure to accept lack of consensus and continued disruption). I believe some form of coercion is necessary to get them to stop their disruption and related behaviour. | |||
:@], I am not an expert on proxies or socks. All the IPs have only posted on the one article and have advocated an odd definition for samurai, that doesn't apply to the article. All except the first one have just reverted. It is possible that this is just laziness, or lack of confidence in writing skills etc. After all, the false citation was added by another user and was just kept. I found the latest one the most suspect, in part because of it first reverting to the incorrect definition, before restoring most of the text and second because of falsely citing policy. I am not sure if they are proxies, but I hoped that someone here would have the expertise to know. I don't think the proxy evidence is the most important. EE is either acting in bad faith or has CIR problems. The later is possible, because he thanked City of Silver during ANI, although City of Silver has been the harshest critic of EE's behaviour towards me. | |||
:I think there should be some important context to the quote: {{tq|"those who serve in close attendance to the nobility"}}. The quote can be found in several books, on ] it is sourced to an article published in Black Belt Magazine in the 80s by ], where he describes the origin of the word samurai. He is describing the early phases of its meaning in that quote, before it became to have martial connotations. It also refers to the time before 900. The earliest foreign samurai on the list was in the late 1500s. It also doesn't apply to most of the persons on the list. Finally, it is not mentioned in Vaporis's book, which EE keeps adding as the source. He hasn't even made the effort to copy the citation from ]. | |||
:@] | |||
Not only did I have a dispute with Symphony Regalia about samurai being "retainers to lords", but also on Yasuke about "As a samurai" and on ] EE made the same reverts as SR. EE had with his first edit in all three articles continued a dispute that I had already had with SR. | |||
:@] I actually don't have a problem with you discussing things. Your talk page posts aren't really discussion though. Your main argument on all three pages has been a shifting of the burden of proof. You don't really discuss content and continually ask me not to make changes without discussing first, and then make changes yourself. I understand that your position is that your preferred version is the status quo. However, my edits regarding the definition on ] , were discussed and consensus was clearly gotten. Similarly, my edits on Yasuke were discussed, and even though I didn't use the exact same version as Gitz said, Gitz had suggested using warrior instead of bushi, so I used samurai, because I thought it would be less controversial. | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | ; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | ||
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | <!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | ||
===Discussion concerning |
===Discussion concerning Ethiopian Epic=== | ||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | |||
====Statement by |
====Statement by Ethiopian Epic==== | ||
This is clear retaliatory filing because I recently didn't agree with Tinynanorobot's , and because I made talk page sections on some recent edits. | |||
* After Peacemaker67 requested A-class review of ] at ] () (where I am one of the most active members), I responded to his request and started being involved with this article (and many other articles about WWII in Yugoslavia, including major battles and offensives). is a list of my contributions to ] article. I don't think my edits (of this or any other article) were ''"an endless succcession of tedious, unproductive squabbling"'' because they pointed out valid flaws and were used as a tool to improve the quality of the article. If I am wrong, I sincerely apologize. | |||
* of the ] was nine months before Peacemaker67 started editing wikipedia. I tried to help resolving the name issue of this article and decided to on 25 September although I believe my efforts were constructive and supported by the majority of editors.--] (]) 13:07, 13 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
@] That's not true and you are a very obvious alt account with only 26 edits. No one gave you a notification of this discussion and it's not on the Yasuke talk page. This suggests you are the sock puppet of someone here. Your post is also misleading and incorrect it wasn't an insertion. The line you are talking about in Samurai has been there for over 10 years and is normal. I know because I've read it before. Here is a version from 2017 . I don't understand why you are misrepresenting edits and using an alt account. | |||
====Comments by others about the request concerning User:Antidiskriminator==== | |||
===== Comment by Athenean ===== | |||
I don't see anything remotely actionable in the limited evidence provided by Peacemaker, especially with respect to ]. I think part of the problem is that Peacemaker is misunderstanding ]. Extended talkpage discussions are not Wikihounding, if someone tires of a discussion the simplest and best thing to do is to leave. Providing links to talkpage threads is completely unhelpful and meaningless. I have interacted with Antidiskriminator in the past and have always found him to be model of civility and courteous behavior, even when he is the victim of incivil behavior, as is often the case. He has a clean block log and is always careful to provide sources for his edits. He is also highly skilled at finding sources difficult to access, and as such is a valuable contributor to this topic area. ] (]) 07:42, 5 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
@] I think he is just fishing. That's why he removed his IP claims. Even his other diffs are just mislabeled regular behavior. It's amusing because Eronymous is the likely alt of Tinynanorobots or someone posting here. I think the way Tinynanorobots edits against clear consensus, skips discussion, and then files frivolous ANI/AE reports with misleading narrative like above is disruptive. Discussion is an easy solution and benefits everyone. I hope he will respect RFC consensus. | |||
The only wikihounding I see here is by Gaius Claudius Nero (bringing up year-old diffs, now that's wikihounding), not to mention accusations of bad faith and conspiracy theories. ] (]) 16:14, 6 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
==== |
====Statement by Relm==== | ||
I am largely unfamiliar with the account in question, but I do frequently check ]. I believe that EthiopianEpic has displayed a clear slant and battleground mindset in their editing in regards to the topic of Yasuke, but that their conduct on the Yasuke page itself so far has generally been in the ballpark of good faith edits. The revert on December 9th was justified, and their topic on November 29th is well within bounds (though I acknowledge that the background of their prior disputes on other pages with Tinynanorobots shows it may be edit warring) given that the two things being reverted was a change that seemed to skirt the prior RFC with agreement being given in a very non-direct way, and the other portion being an addition which had not been discussed on the talk page prior to its implementation (though previous discussions ered on the side of not including it). I am ''not'' accusing Tinynanorobots of any misconduct in any part of that either. | |||
I also dont find anything sanctionable here. Based on my previous experiences with User:Antidiskriminator, he may be regarded as great, highly relevant and good faithed editor, with great knowledge of wiki guidelines and usage of sources and references. Also, i never saw that he lost his temper, even for a bit, which is priceless. Diffs presented are unrelated to the WPHOUND. I also highly doubt that user is capable to do any guidelines breach, as it was presented. In the end, editor for example. Also, as i already stated on ANI, this AE is nothing more then try to eliminate opposing side in a dispute, in a previously successful traveling circus attack way, usually unrelated to the problem. Antid's numerous constructive propositions to solve the obvious problem with page ] are obviously problematic for some. Therefore, i can expect several editors included in this problem to recall any problematic situation from the past and present, in order to fulfill this request. This is a example where content dispute can end, in a ] caravan. --<span style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml">]<sup>]</sup></span> 13:55, 5 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
What I will note is that in addition to the sockpuppet IP allegations made by Tinynanorobots, I wanted to lodge that the posting style of EthiopianEpic, as well as their knowledge of much of the previous discussions on the page deep in the archive, led me to suspect that they were an alt of ]. I never found anything conclusive. ] (]) 14:48, 12 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
===== Comment by PRODUCER ===== | |||
I found Anti's behavior at the Pavle Đurišić article to constitute tendentious editing and to be belligerent. After the article had been promoted to ''FA status'' for some time (28 August), Anti took his first personal A-class review and then he cut up his points into sections on the article's talk page where he tried whatever tactic he could to remove information he personally disliked and push in information he does like, in essence throwing whatever can stick. After that he rehashed them twice and posted them as reasons as to why the article should not be ''A class'' article! Reaching whatever reason he can no matter how baseless, unfounded, the long length discussion, or the numerous sections in which they were discussed: | |||
*Communist subordination: | |||
**On 26 August, he brought it up in his initial review | |||
**On 24 August, since that failed, he brought it up again at the article talkpage | |||
**On 3 September, since that failed, he brought it up in his rehashed review | |||
====Statement by Simonm223==== | |||
*Family/parents: | |||
These two editors have been tangling at WP:AN/I repeatedly. Last time they came there I said that this would likely continue until a third party intervened. And then the thread got archived with no action () so I'm not surprised that the two of them are still tangling. There is evidence that both editors have engaged in a slow-motion edit war. | |||
**On 15 August, he brought it up in his initial review | |||
**On 24 August, since that failed, he brought it up again at the article talkpage | |||
*Iron Cross: | |||
**On 22 August he claimed that there is a controversy | |||
**On 25 August, since that failed, he claimed that there was undue weight , | |||
**On 31 August, since that failed, he attacked the source that supports the award. | |||
*A song: | |||
Both have claimed the other is editing against consensus. Here I will say that it appears TinyNanoRobots is more correct than Ethiopian Epic. Furthermore, while neither editors' comportment has been stellar, as other editors have pointed out, it appears more that EE is following TNR about and giving them a hard time than the alternate. . In the linked AN/I case (above) you'll note EE attempted a boomerang on TNR and was not well-received for the effort. | |||
**On 26 August, he brought it up in his initial review | |||
**On 2 September, since that failed, he brought it up again at the article talkpage | |||
*Berane: | |||
**On 26 August, he brought it up in his initial review | |||
**On 2 September, since that failed, he brought it up again at the article talkpage | |||
**On 18 September, since that failed, again brought it up | |||
Frankly my view is that both editors are not editing to the best standards of Misplaced Pages but there is definitely a ''more'' disruptive member of this duo and that is Ethiopian Epic. I think it would probably cut down on the noise considerably if they were encouraged to find somewhere to edit which was not a CTOP subject and if they were encouraged to leave TNR alone. ] (]) 18:05, 12 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
These are by no means the only diffs available, in many cases Anti takes one topic and interjects it while discussing another. To further his control of the talk page (in what I can only interpret as an attempt to ] it) he makes use of a "unresolved" template for ''every'' discussion in which he does not have a favorable outcome (no matter how long the matter was discussed or how weak his arguments) and reverts anyone who dares modify them. | |||
To Anti users on the talk page are a blockade of sorts and continues to ] and simply reiterates the same views and points he held previously through duplicate sections and discussions. The same editorial behavior can be found on the Territory of the Military Commander in Serbia article where with WhiteWriter he has attempted to push their POV (including that of PANONIAN who was banned on AE for his disruptive behavior ) continuously and over many redundant sections. His support of him is no surprise. --<font face="xx-medium serif">◅ ]</font></font> <small>(])</small></font> 14:50, 5 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
:Another Greek editor aware of this discussion and vouching for Anti? Hmmm... --<font face="xx-medium serif">◅ ]</font></font> <small>(])</small></font> 15:22, 14 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
==== |
====Statement by Eronymous==== | ||
Similar to Relm I check on the ] page every so often, and it seems very likely given the evidence that ] is an alt of ] created to evade his recent ArbCom sanctions, having started editing the day prior to the case closure. Of note to this is the of Symphony_Regalia on ] was him attempting to insert the line "who served as retainers to lords (including '']'')" - curiously enough, Ethiopian Epic's on ] (and , having just prior made 11 minor ones in a short timeframe to reach autoconfirmed status) is him attempting to insert the same controversial line that was reverted before. | |||
*The report summarizes Antidiskriminator's decorum breaches and editing very concisely. The major issue regarding Antidiskriminator is his denial to accept consensus which is followed by semi-"retaliatory" acts i.e. wikihounding among others. On ''Territory of the Military Commander in Serbia'' he kept starting new discussions on the same topics using different arguments every time as he couldn't gain approval. As that was becoming an ad infinitum situation he followed Peacemaker67 and disputed him on articles he had never shown any interest in(Pavle Durisic etc.). There's a long history of that particular kind of editing as evidenced by the ARBMAC warnings (first in 2010 for restarting the same debates against consensus; latest in 2012 for the same reasons) and edit-warring warnings.--<span style="background-color: maroon; color: white">]</span> <sup>]</sup> 15:13, 5 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
:*What does Antidiskriminator mean by the second part of his statement? The result of his was ''no consensus''. Where does he base his belief that his proposal regarding the title issue was ''supported by the majority of editors''? | |||
:*That being said, source and especially RS abuse has been a major issue as Antidiskriminator uses them selectively and always insists that his sources are RS regardless of their extreme nature. For example, on ] (Albanian semi-collaborationist unit of WWII) he was using Smilja Avramov, a councillor of Milosevic and flagrant anti-semite who among others has written that ''Olaf Palme, JF Kennedy and Aldo Moro were all killed by the Trilateral Commission because they broke the vow of secrecy ...the destruction of Yugoslavia was a joint endeavour of the Vatican and the US establishment''. Four (Peacemaker67, Aigest, PRODUCER, I) users who pointed out the nature of his sources got ] responses about the arguments being ''unrelated'' to RS and that RSN was needed (]). The wikilawyering was followed by an article he wrote on ] that essentially constitutes ] as he labeled her a ''law expert'' and omitted everything controversial including her beliefs on the ''Protocols of Zion'', her involvement in the Yugoslav Wars and most recently her decision to act as a defendant witness in the cases of Karadzic/Mladic. In fact, he chose to only use one source, which, in fact, doesn't mention her at all (given url). | |||
Symphony_Regalia has a history of utilising socks to edit Yasuke/Samurai related topics and is indefinitely blocked from the .jp wiki for (plus multiple suspected IPs) for this. | |||
:*An update in regard to recent edits by Antidiskriminator: | |||
:*14:00, 1 September 2012: Antidiskriminator in a section on Pavle Durisic regarding his Iron Cross: Antidiskriminator presents a work by Stanislav Krakov as a source. | |||
:*09:46, 14 October 2012: Antidiskriminator in the same section on Pavle Durisic regarding his Iron Cross: | |||
--<span style="background-color: maroon; color: white">]</span> <sup>]</sup> 16:04, 13 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
Prior to being sanctioned Symphony Regalia frequently got into exactly the same arguments concerning wording/source material with ] that Ethiopian Epic is now. One could assume based on their relationship that he is aggrieved that Tinynanorobots was not sanctioned by ArbCom during the case and is now continuously feuding with him to change that through edit warring and multiple administrator incidents/arbitration requests in the past few weeks. ] (]) 22:31, 12 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
===== Comment by Gaius Claudius Nero ===== | |||
I have been Wikihounded by Antidiskriminator for more than a year (I considered retiring because of it) and never brought myself to reporting the constant offenses he had made against me. Below are some of what I perceived as violations which he had made against me since 2010 (out of what could be much more): | |||
* ]: Here you can see a constant barrage of ] and the flood of messages constantly repeating the same points over and over again. | |||
* : Here he is violating ] by bringing up an irrelevant topic (Harry Hodgkinson's reliability which we had debated on other topics) in order to trap me into making an admission that the source he mentions is unreliable, even though it had never before been mentioned in the talk page. | |||
* : Here he is again violating ] by giving me an ultimatum for what he considered original research (for something which I think is ]) and violates the rules of cooperation (although I later changed it the way he asked me, something I could have done much more quickly if he did not try to trap me into an ultimatum). | |||
* : Here he is violating ] by stating that I hid sources from him (although he later apologized). | |||
* ]: Here he is again violating ] and refusing to cooperate with me even I signalled to him that I wanted to try to reach a consensus (''Just so you know, I'm trying to reach a consensus with you...'') | |||
* : Here he violates ] and attacks me for a personal error, also showing blatant incivility. | |||
Like I said, these are only a few of what could be more and they are the cases that I remember most because they are some of the earliest cases. There are many instances where he came into a talk page soon after I edited there for the FIRST time (eg. compare to and compare to ), I assume from constantly checking my contributions log (although there could of course be other ways, but I could find more examples if requested). This is what ] says: ''Wikihounding is the singling out of one or more editors, and joining discussions on multiple pages or topics they may edit or multiple debates where they contribute, in order to repeatedly confront or inhibit their work.'' This is definitely the impression that I got from his constant confrontation on most of the pages I work on (mostly ones with the medieval history). ] also says this: ''The important component of wikihounding is disruption to another user's own enjoyment of editing, or to the project generally, for no overriding reason.'' Although I hate to admit, the main reason I considered retiring from Misplaced Pages (even though I enjoyed it very much) was because I was constantly being Wikihounded by Antidiskriminator. Now that I see that I'm not the only one being Wikihounded, it is clear to me that a topic ban (maybe for three months which he might later be reconsidered) is the best means to rectify this situation, that is, of course, if the administrator is willing to consider it as such.--] (]) 20:49, 5 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
:Additional comments: It is interesting that Athenean is taking part in this since he rarely ever participated in the topics which Antidiskriminator is being reported for. If I may take a moment here to describe something which I came across when responding to one of Antidiskriminator's messages to me: which leads to looks like Athenean trying to recruit Antidiskriminator for his witch-hunt of Albanian sock-puppet accounts (many of which have been proven to be false). To me, it seems obvious why Athenean is defending Antidiskrimator here (who most often sparred with Albanian editors at the time), despite rarely participating in the discussions which Antidiskriminator participated at the time. I won't state it explicitly because I believe it is self-evident.--] (]) 21:03, 5 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
::Athenean says that I am a Wikihounder. I will fully disclose myself as I feel it is necessary: I saved these links from a long time ago in anticipation that I would file a report, but I never got around to it. If I was a true Wikihounder, I would not even include any of these and only include recent diffs. He also says I assume bad faith. I have tried to be as fair as possible (eg. I mentioned that he later apologized) and obviously, this is not entirely possible as I am a human being. (It seems like he is annoyed that I called him out, but I feel like it is necessary to show that he has a horse in this race.)--] (]) 23:12, 13 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
:::I agree fully with the comments of Director and endorse them. I have observed the same exact thing.--] (]) 23:33, 13 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
::::Alexikoua's "evidence" that there was a disagreement is so vaguely constructed that anybody could spin it. The topic of disagreement is also so minor that it would be hard to gain any sort of knowledge from it. Alexikoua had no significant stake in the article so he of course conceded. If he did have a stake (ie. if he was a significant editor with plenty of sources), he would be facing a mine of ] and would face the same annoyance most other editors are finding here. Furthermore, Alexikoua and Antidiskriminator had never (or rarely) disagreed with each other so he therefore faced no hostility.--] (]) 21:56, 14 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
==== |
====Statement by Nil Einne==== | ||
To the best of my knowledge, I've had no prior interaction with the individuals involved here. Anti could use some polishing, certainly, but (to pick a complaint] above at random) unsourced information is not to stay, and without a deadline, it might stay indefinitely. I can understand the logic, at least, and it certainly wasn't common sense. I didn't see the accused battleground either. Producer seems to show that Anti disagreed about an article's assessment, which is, at best, a content dispute. It seems odd that a RM is considered disruptive, especially given the article's title at the time. | |||
I was ?one of the editors who suggested Tinynanorobots consider ARE in the future. I did this mostly because after three threads on ANI with no result, I felt a change of venue might be more productive especially since the more structured nature of ARE, as well as a likely greater concern over low level of misconduct meant that some outcome was more likely. (For clarity, when I suggested this I did feel nothing would happen from the third ANI thread but in any case my advice being taken onboard would likely mean the third thread had no result.) I did try to make clear that I wasn't saying there was definitely a problem requiring sanction and also it was possible Tinynanorobots might themselves end up sanctioned. Since a topic ban on both is being considered, I might have been right in a way. If a topic ban results, I'd like to suggest admins considered some guidance beyond broadly constructed on how any topic ban would apply. While the entirety of the Yasuke article and the list of foreign born samurai stuff seem clear enough, one concern I've had at ANI is how to handle the editing at ] and its talk page. A lot of the recent stuff involving these editors seems to relate to the definition of samurai. AFAIK, this is generally been a big part of the dispute of Yasuke (he can/can't be a samurai because it means A which was/wasn't true about him). ] (]) 12:42, 15 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
I won't take the space here to go through every point, (in part because I haven't the time,) but if those are a representative sample, I see nothing warranting the requested action, nor necessarily meeting the threshold of hounding. --]]] 04:20, 6 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
===Result concerning Ethiopian Epic=== | |||
===== Comment by DIREKTOR ===== | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
I was largely on the margins of Antidiskriminator's more recent disruptive activities, however in my experience, the user displays a very obvious pattern of POV-pushing and ]. As PRODUCER pointed out above, Antidiskriminator has a daily hobby of creating ] in the form of ''sixteen'' sections or so, posted one after the other, where he conducts simultaneous POV-pushing on several topic and several talkpages at once. All ''singularly according to the Serbian-nationalist point of view.'' He has ] his perceived "anti-Serbian opponents" to several articles, where he continues to simply "oppose" without regard to sources and user consensus. | |||
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. --> | |||
*I've never been very impressed with retaliatory filings, and the one below is no exception. I will also note that I'm never too impressed with "must be a sock" type accusations—either file at SPI or don't. In this case, though, I think ] would be better off if neither of these two were participating there. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 19:33, 12 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:{{u|Red-tailed hawk}}, what are your thoughts after the responses to you? ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 16:18, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*::I think that it would be declined if it were an ] report and the editor should be mindful not to throw sock accusations around willy-nilly going forward. But I typically don't see any sort of sanction imposed when someone makes a bad SPI report, particularly if they're newer or aren't quite ] yet. So I don't see much to do on that front other than tell them that we need more specific evidence of socking when reports are made than merely shared interest, particularly when the IPs are scattered across the world. — ] <sub>]</sub> 02:24, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:::I'm still inclined to topic ban both these editors from ], but would be interested in hearing more thoughts on that if anyone has them. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 07:10, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I also generally don't like "might-be-a-sock"-style accusations; when we are accusing someone of ] we typically need evidence to substantiate it rather than just floating the possibility in a flimsy way. Filer has provided as possible socks, but each of those IPs geolocates to a different country (Germany, Norway, and Argentina respectively) and I don't see evidence that any of those IPs are proxies.{{pb}}{{yo|Tinynanorobots}} Can you explain what led you to note the IP edits? Is it merely shared interest and viewpoint, or is there something more?{{pb}}— ] <sub>]</sub> 02:01, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
* Looking at this .... mess... first, I'm not sure what actually was against the ArbCom decision - I don't see a 1RR violation being alleged, and the rest really appears to me to be "throw stuff at the wall and see if it sticks". But, like Seraphimblade, I'm not impressed with either of these editors actual conduct here or in general. I could be brought around to supporting a topic ban for both of these editors in the interests of clearing up the whole topic area. ] (]) 14:33, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
* {{re|Tinynanorobots}} you are well above the 500 word limit. Please request an extension before adding anything more. ] (]) 16:18, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
==Tinynanorobots== | |||
The user does not edit articles, but merely argues to no end. Consequently, he also never presents specific suggestions, which could allow for a more focused debate that might actually conceivably ''end'' at some point. Its just '']'' day after day. | |||
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> | |||
===Request concerning Tinynanorobots=== | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : ] (]) 19:14, 12 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Tinynanorobots}}<p>{{ds/log|Tinynanorobots}}</p> | |||
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] | |||
He usually has no sources, or has cherry-picked sources, or his sources are obviously biased to the point of comedy, etc.. Typically, he will post one of his ''myriad'' "complaint sections" on a talkpage, demanding some undefined change or other. Even when people arrive and basically say "''go ahead, lets see what you have in mind (why aren't you editing?)''" - he will actually ''continue'' to "debate" even though his edits essentially aren't opposed (''cf'' the ''eight'' sections he started just on ], particularly ). Having no real support in sources, the user will typically attempt to abuse ], posting a succession of RfCs and 3Os and what not - basically trying to convince others so that he might still push unsourced nonsense into the text. | |||
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | |||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | |||
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.--> | |||
#. Tinynanorobots removes {{tq|As a samurai}} from the lead text and replaces it with {{tq|signifying bushi status}} against ] ({{tq|There exists a consensus to refer to Yasuke as a samurai without qualification}}). | |||
Generally speaking, the user's conduct is ''annoying'' to no end. Productive users who do actual research (like Peacemaker) are forced to deal with his brand of Balkans-nationalist ] and endless disruption day in day out, farcical RfC after farcical RfC - instead of contributing to the project. <u>He never gives up</u>, regardless of how unsupported his position is. When policy is pointed to him, he calls it a "personal attack", basically ignores it, and just continues on - ''e.g.'' his ignoring this report as well. ''For months now'' the user has been posting one section after another on ], again and again and again, "complaint" after "complaint" in endless succession, one more biased and baseless than the next. Frankly, if the user is not sanctioned now for this wide-scale disruption - I can easily see ] continuing on'' indefinitely.'' <font face="Eras Bold ITC">-- ] <span style="color:#464646">(])</span></font> 21:21, 8 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
#. Tinynanorobots removes {{tq|who served as a samurai}} from the lead text and adds {{tq|who became a bushi or samurai}} against ] ({{tq|There exists a consensus against presenting Yasuke's samurai status as the object of debate}}). | |||
#. On List of Foreign-born Samurai, Tinynanorobots removes the longstanding definition and adds {{tq|This list includes persons who ... may not have been considered a samurai}} against ] ({{tq|There exists a consensus against presenting Yasuke's samurai status as the object of debate}}). | |||
#. Tinynanorobots reverts to remove {{tq|As a samurai}} in the Yasuke article after Gitz6666 opposes at , again ignoring ]. | |||
#. I restore and start a so that consensus can be formed. | |||
#. Tinynanorobots, when consensus fails to form for his position, becomes uncivil and engages in a sarcastic personal attack {{tq|What you are saying doesn't make sense. Perhaps there is a language issue here. Maybe your native language handles the future differently than English?}} | |||
#. Tinynanorobots removes "As a samurai" again, ignoring ] and BRD even though no consensus has formed for his position, and no consensus has formed to change existing consensus. | |||
#. Tinynanorobots explains their reasons, {{tq|I don't know if samurai is the right term}} which is against consensus. | |||
#. POV-pushing - With no edit summary Tinynanorobots tag bombs by adding {{tq|Slavery in Japan}}. | |||
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : | |||
# Explanation | |||
=====Comment by Nick-D===== | |||
# Explanation | |||
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.--> | |||
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]): | |||
<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. --> | |||
*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on . | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | |||
Tinynanorobots frequently edits against consensus, restores his edits when others revert, doesn't wait for consensus, and engages in feuding behavior. He seems to think ] or ] don't apply to him which is disruptive, and I don't know why. | |||
On 19 September Antidiskriminator reposted sections of some of my comments at ] at ] in such a way that they appeared to suggest that I supported their position, when in fact I did not. This was shortly before they were warned of the Eastern European editing restrictions, and when I confronted him or her about on 24 September they apologised. As far as I was concerned the matter was concluded, with no harm done other than further hardening my aversion to offering an opinion on this kind of dispute. However, I'm surprised to see that this fraudulent post attributed to me is still on the article's talk page (I actually thought it had been removed). ] (]) 08:50, 9 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
- Warning from other editor about repeated removal of content when multiple users are objecting. | |||
=====Comment by Fut.Perf.===== | |||
From my own experience with Antidiskriminator on some Kosovo-related pages, and from observing him from a distance on a number of other "ethnic" troublespots (mostly Serbian-Albanian), I share the view that A. is a textbook case of a tendentious editor and needs to be restricted. It's maybe not so much any one particular set of offensive edits I'd point to, but just the overall picture of the "travelling circus": an endless succcession of tedious, unproductive squabbling, always related to the same predictable agenda issues. For concrete examples, I find Direktor's links to the Pavle Ðurišić talkpage instructive. ] is a particular illustrative section, showing an infuriating obtuseness in repeatedly failing to substantiate an alleged NPOV concern when asked to do so. After making an unsourced claim, Antidiskriminator spent three posts over ten days squabbling over the term "original research", until finally beginning to address the obvious issue that he hadn't provided sources to back up his claim; he never proceeded to explaining what point those (foreign-language) sources were actually making. The section a bit further down, related to the same issue (]) is equally illustrative. Can't act as an uninvolved admin on this one, but would certainly recommend sanctions of some sort. ] ] 08:10, 13 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
: Actually Antidiskriminator ''did'' provide sources with quotes and their translation at the end of the iron cross thread. These remained unreplied it seems. I agree that his initial approach was unproductive. ] (]) 14:39, 13 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
::No. He did that only after seeing Fut. Perf's comment. --<font face="xx-medium serif">◅ ]</font></font> <small>(])</small></font> 14:44, 13 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
::: You're right; I should have checked the chronology more carefully. There's indeed a six-week gap between Antidiskriminator's last post there (Oct 13) and Peacemaker67's last post above it (Sep 28). ] (]) 14:48, 13 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
- Warning from yet another editor about not assuming good faith and making personal attacks | |||
===== Comment by Tijfo098 ===== | |||
Looking at the threads indicated by FPaS I think Peacemaker67 deserves and equal restriction. He repeatedly brushed off several RS/N discussions that brought in question (w/academic reviews) the source Peacemaker67 was relying upon (Cohen). That such a source is used in a FA only shows how pathetic Misplaced Pages really is. If one side can use yellow journalism in articles then so can the other. And don't say it was published by an academic publisher. It's an obscure university press publishing someone with no degree in history (and who found real success in ]). See the recently closed thread we had on ], who was heavily relying on a similar book for a comparison. ] (]) 15:31, 13 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
:It would not be correct to say Antidiskriminator was wrong in his demands and "complaints" ''every single'' time: that would be quite an achievement. When someone posts dozens upon dozens of threads pushing in the same nationalist-POV direction, one or two are bound to have some kind of real support. I myself agreed that he might have a point several times, including the Cohen issue. But equally as such cases are drops in a sea of WP:TE are Peacemaker's possible errors of the above sort only drops in the sea of excellent, diligent, and thoroughly-researched contribution on a very difficult and obscure topic. Whereas antid is there merely to squabble and complain, continuously and without end, Peacemaker is the guy who's hard work and extensive contribs he's criticizing. | |||
It seems to be chronic which suggests behavior problems. Tinynanorobots also frequently fails to assume good faith in others. I don't know why as I don't have any issues with him. | |||
:When someone harasses and hounds you all over the project, impeding your efforts with incessant, pointless, malicious bickering, it's hard to view the 27th complaint in good faith. I've often remarked on the tendency to simply "block everybody" or treat everyone as equally "guilty", but to treat these two users in such a way might be a new low in that regard. Their behavior and value to the project are not even comparable. That's my take anyway. <font face="Eras Bold ITC">-- ] <span style="color:#464646">(])</span></font> 16:24, 13 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
:: I think part of the problem here is Misplaced Pages's inherently flawed system of "review". Basically Antidiskriminator was raising talk page points about perceived flaws in the article, while Peacemaker67 was complaining (sometimes using colorful phrases like "Blind Freddy" as in ]) that Antidiskriminator is not ''editing'' the article. Outside of Misplaced Pages, a reviewer will not edit your paper. And in the few occasions that outside opinion was solicited (as in that thread I linked), both Antidiskriminator and Peacemaker67 were found to advance statements not supported by the sources cited (cf. WP:3O provided by ] there). Perhaps in the overall picture one is more at fault than the other, but in this article, I don't see why one should be sanctioned and the other not. ] (]) 20:47, 13 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
Their preferred edit for Yasuke against the RFC consensus is lead section. | |||
::: Your point is academic. This is not outside WP, this IS WP and policies and norms of WP apply. ] (]) 01:20, 14 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
Here's a less academic point. Read ]. There Peacemaker67 supports the inclusion of a source which says that "There was not even the slightest indication of antisemitism in the Ustaša ". I fully support a topic ban on him at this point. ] (]) 23:29, 13 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
@] Sorry for the confusion. I think we talking about different edits, so I'll adjust that part. I am referring to Tinynanorobot's repeated removal of {{tq|As a samurai}} against RFC consensus, which states {{tq|There exists a consensus to refer to Yasuke as a samurai without qualification}}. | |||
And speaking of the regulars in this area: the bio that DIREKTOR + PRODUCER produced for ] was laughable, by the way. Stanford University in San Francisco, eh? Nobody caught that for 6 months. Gives you pause about Misplaced Pages's readers. Oh, and he didn't actually teach at Stanford. But according to Peacemaker67 he called Ante Pavelic with the appellation "Dr." ]. ] (]) 23:51, 13 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
:Now just wait a second. Firstly, I can't imagine what that has to do with anything. Secondly, if you're looking for random irregularities in the "Balkalns Articles" I suggest you set aside a few months for the search alone. Thirdly, I can't remember anymore but I'm reasonably certain people didn't actually make things up there: at best those are good faith errors, but also, here's a link from stanford.edu describing Tomasevich as "Stanford's professor" . (If you think that the location of Stanford is general knowledge over here half-way across the world - think again :). We're more acquainted with places like the peaceful university town of Sorbonne..) | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
:Finally, as I believe this is a 💕, I don't think anyone could possibly be topic banned for advocating the reliability of a scholarly source with some considerable peer review support, not without an action appeal anyway. I recommend Tijfo, that you view antid's behavior on the whole, rather than just this Cohen business, which seems to have struck a cord? The matter was discussed at WP:RSN, you don't propose to sanction everyone who didn't oppose Cohen's inclusion? (btw, I do agree that he probably isn't RS, now that I've had time to refresh my memory, but being wrong isn't something you sanction people for - as opposed to a pattern of nationalist POV-pushing and TE). That's it from me, I'm off to the islands and will need to declare a wikibreak :) | |||
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
===Discussion concerning Tinynanorobots=== | |||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | |||
====Statement by Tinynanorobots==== | |||
The accusations made by EE are so misleading as to be evidence against him. Most of what he is discussing is in reference to a successful BRD. I actually discussed the bold edit first on the talk, but didn't get much of a response. I decided a bold edit would get more feedback. The edits were reverted and then discussed. Gitz's main problem was OR, not a RfC violation. This was because he didn't read the cited source. {{tq|Anyway, since Atkin says "signifying bushi status", I have no objection to restoring this text.}} | |||
I never used any sarcasm, I know that some languages handle how they talk about time differently. It seems reasonable that a translation error could be the reason for EE asking me not to change the article, althoug my edit had already been restored by someone else and at the same time asking me to discuss that I had already discussed and was already discussing. I am disappointed that EE didn't point out that he felt attacked, so that I could apologize. | |||
:P.s. That Cohen quote is very much out of context. He is there referring to the ''early years'' of the Ustaše, when they were under Mussolini's wing. At that time Mussolini didn't express much anti-semitic sentiment either. And Cohen is Jewish after all, kind of hard to imagine him excusing anti-semitisim. <font face="Eras Bold ITC">-- ] <span style="color:#464646">(])</span></font> 00:32, 14 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
This was written in response to another user, and the whole thought is {{tq|I don't know if samurai is the right term. It is the term a fair amount of sources use, and the one that the RfC says should be used. It is also consistent with common usage in reference to other historical figures.}} In fact earlier in that post I said this: {{tq|I am not qualified to say whither or not Yasuke having a house meant that he was a samurai}} This is blatantly taking a quote out of context in order to prejudice the Admins against me. | |||
:: With respect Tijfo098, can we try to keep this on topic and in context? You have so far raised out-of-context content issues on ] and seriously misrepresented the discussions at that. You have also seriously misrepresented and exaggerated discussions on RSN and at ] about Cohen. My understanding of this place on WP is that you need to try to focus your discussion on the behaviour of Antidiskriminator that is the subject of the report, not obscure matters with off-topic discussions of my work on ], where Antidiskriminator has yet to appear. If you think that my conduct on ] warrants a report, please go ahead, but this thread is clearly not the place. ] (]) 01:20, 14 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
:@] I filed here, because the last time I filed at ANI it was suggested that I bring things here if things continue by an Admin. I try to follow advice, although I keep getting conflicting signals from Admins. I am most concerned that you find my work on ] and ] not adding anything helpful. My suggestion to rewrite the way samurai was defined on the List in order to reduce OR and bring it in line with WP:LSC was meant with unanimous approval by those who responded. Samurai is a high importance article that has tags on it from years back, is unorganized and contains outdated information. I am not the best writer, but I have gotten some books, and am pretty much the only one working on it. | |||
:Just to set the record straight the quote that Tijfo098 is mocking and even advocating topic-banning Peacemaker over is actually from ] and a part of a work from the Jewish Studies at the Central European University. This is what's really "laughable" here. --<font face="xx-medium serif">◅ ]</font></font> <small>(])</small></font> 16:33, 14 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
::I just thought that the Admins here should know about the ongoing SPI | |||
===== Comment by Alexikoua===== | |||
I really don't see anything remotely actionable according to this limited ammount of evidence provided against Antidiskriminator. In fact Antidiskriminator is one of the few editors that strictly follows the guidelines, especially about Balkan related topics. Although in the past I had some minor content disputes with him, I was surprised with the way he approaches the various issues and welcomes any third part opinion. | |||
====Statement by Relm==== | |||
If one Balkan editor should receive some kind of restriction that's off course not him.] (]) 12:59, 14 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
I am the editor alluded to and quoted as 'protesting' Tinynanorobots edit. When I originally made that topic, I was fixing a different edit which left the first sentence as a grammatically incomplete sentence. When I looked at it in the editing view, one of the quotes in the citation beforehand was quoting Atkins Vera, and I mistook this for the opening quote having been changed. When I closed the editing menu I saw 'signifying samurai status' in the second paragraph and confused the two for each other as I had not noticed the addition of the latter phrase a little under a month ago. I realized my mistake almost immediately after I posted the new topic, and made this () edit to clarify my mistake while also attempting to instead direct the topic towards making sure that the edit recieved sufficient assent from Gitz (it did) and to talk about improvements that could be made to the opening sentence. I further clarified and made clear that I was not accusing Tinynanorobots of having done anything wrong in a later response (). | |||
Though many of their earlier edits on the page may show some issues, as they grew more familiar with the past discussions I believe that Tinynanorobots has made valuable contributions to the page in good faith. ] (]) 03:21, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
::For example here ] I was firmly against the creation of ] article by Antit., nevertheless he was kind enough to answer this ]. Although I was still against the creation of this article Antint. is one of the few editors that stays calm and avoids to make things hot.] (]) 17:51, 14 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Barkeep49==== | |||
===Result concerning User:Antidiskriminator=== | |||
*:@] I think this misinterprets the ArbCom decision. So Yakuse is a contentious topic ''and'' it has a 1RR restriction, in the same way as say PIA. As in PIA administrators can sanction behavior that violates the ] besides 1RR. Beyond that, editing ] is a finding of fact from the case. ] (]) 16:25, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
<!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.--> | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.'' | |||
== Nmate == | |||
====Statement by (username)==== | |||
{{hat|No action taken. {{user|Iadrian yu}} is warned that frivolous AE requests will result in sanctions for the filer. ] (]) 16:33, 11 October 2012 (UTC)}} | |||
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.'' | |||
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. --> | |||
=== |
===Result concerning Tinynanorobots=== | ||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : ] (]) 09:26, 7 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
* As above, I'm failing to see what exactly is against the ArbCom case rulings - I don't see a 1RR violation. But also as above, I'm coming to the view that neither of these editors are adding anything helpful to the topic area and am leaning towards a topic ban for both. ] (]) 14:35, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. --> | |||
*<!-- | |||
--> | |||
==Selfstudier== | |||
{{hat|1={{nobold|1=No evidence of misconduct was presented. Filer ] is informally warned against frivolous filings. <span style="font-family:courier"> -- ]</span><sup class="nowrap">[]]</sup> <small>(])</small> 02:36, 19 December 2024 (UTC)}}}}} | |||
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> | |||
===Request concerning Selfstudier=== | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Allthemilescombined1}} 02:43, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Selfstudier}}<p>{{ds/log|Selfstudier}}</p> | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Nmate}} | |||
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | <!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | ||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: |
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: | ||
] | |||
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | <!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | ||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | ; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | ||
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. --> | <!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.--> | ||
# Concern for ] violation when Selfstudier told me on my talk page: “enough now.This is a warning to cease and desist with the WP:ASPERSIONS and general unhelpfulness at the Zionism article.” | |||
This user is an example of ], ] and ]. Since this user has been warned a couple of times, blocked several times ; - blocked for edit warring, placed under DIGWUREN notice and under the List of editors placed under editing restriction his behavior is not changing, it is even worse. | |||
# Selfstudier dismissed my source {{ISBN|9798888459683}}, with “Bernard-Henri Lévy is not an expert on Zionism or colonialism”. | |||
# Selfstudier dismissed my source Adam Kirsch {{ISBN|978-1324105343}} “does not appear to be an expert in Zionism or Settler colonial studies but is apparently well known for a pro Israel viewpoint". These dismissive comments are uncivil. | |||
# Concerning for possible ] and ] violations. Editors with one POV swarmed RM:6 December 2024 and closed it immediately for SNOW. Selfstudier immediately archived parts of this discussion, including my comments, while leaving the parts that supported their POV. | |||
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : | |||
He is violating at-least 4 out of 5 principles of DIGWUREN case . | |||
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.--> | |||
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]): | |||
According to his edits, his contributions are 90% related to conflicts with people who disagree with him, in most of the showing battleground mentality and bad faith with almost obligatory accusations of whoever complains against him for block shopping or harassment. | |||
<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. --> | |||
*Otherwise made edits indicating an awareness of the contentious topic. | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | |||
Links: | |||
On I/P topics, my edits on numerous occasions have been reverted almost immediately, by Selfstudier and their fellow editors who seem to be always hanging around I/P, and "owning" the topic area. They are creating a hostile editing environment and are violating NPOV. | |||
Concerns for possible ] and ] violations: | |||
# Bad faith and closing discussion without the permission of other editors. | |||
# Original research, and when corrected he acts in bad faith against this user: | |||
# Original research, and when corrected acts in bad faith against a second user : | |||
# Protecting original research with bad faith. | |||
# Protecting original research with bad faith. | |||
# bad faith. | |||
# Bad faith edits. | |||
# Bad faith and battleground mentality. | |||
# Bad faith and civility problems (''na szevasz te észlény'' in Hungarian = ''Hello you smartass(or rather doofus/dummy)''). | |||
# Original research on this and many other articles in spite of many warnings(there isn`t enough place here to enumerate them all). | |||
# Edit warring. | |||
# This behavior combined with trying to block other users. | |||
# Reverting other peoples messages, even a Request for comment. | |||
# Bad faith and battleground mentality. | |||
*Abo Yemen dismissed my reasoned arguments as “feelings”: | |||
*RolandR dismissed the author of "Saying No to Hate: Overcoming Antisemitism in America", {{ISBN|978-0827615236}}, as a “non-notable children’s writer”: | |||
His talk page is riddled with warnings and block logs from several different editors just in the last month:, , , , , .. which he clearly ignores. | |||
*Zero told me “We should stick to history books and not cite emotional polemics”. | |||
There are many more examples, but I enumerated only the latest. Note that whatever contact with this user wth persons who doesn`t agree with him is resulted in an immediate accusations of block shopping or harassment and while allowing him to continue with his behavior. | |||
Concerns for possible ] and ] violations: | |||
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) : | |||
<!-- Many arbitration remedies require a prior warning before sanctions may be imposed. Link to the warning here. --> | |||
#Warned on by {{user|Elonka}} | |||
*Smallangryplanet accused me of WP:SYNTH and reverted my edits as irrelevant to the article on Holocaust inversion: whereas the article, prior to vandalism, resembled: | |||
*Nableezy added that the only material that can be relevant to the aforementioned article is that which compares Israel to Nazi Germany, ignoring that such comparisons are antisemitic. | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | |||
<!-- Add any further comment here --> | |||
] - You are right, indeed I used a lot of this phrasing (just noticed myself :) ) but I don`t know with what other words to describe some of the actions I presented here. If this is not appropriate I could change it. ] (]) 15:21, 8 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
*Levivich asked me “Why are these academic sources relevant to the discussion? How did you select them?” and added “I won’t bother reading the other two, I'll assume they also say the same thing that everybody else says.” (referring to Katz, Segev, and Goren) | |||
] - I am surprised that you don`t see anything wrong with the diffs I provided but if you fell that I made a mistake, that`s fine too. I am aware that Arbitration process can rule against me too. I thought that this pattern in the behavior of this user is more than obvious in violating the principles of the DIGWUREN case. ] (]) 10:21, 9 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
*Valeree wrote “If you'll read this talk page rather thoroughly so that you can bring yourself up to speed, you'll probably find fewer editors making sarcastic remarks about your suggestions.” | |||
] - In my opinion you are partially right. The main reason is his conduct while adding unsourced data. Several times just a simple contact with this user results in various accusations and personal attacks which leads to conflicts. ] (]) 15:54, 10 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
Concerns for possible ] violations: | |||
*Sean.hoyland accused me of “advocacy and the expression of your personal views about the real world” and told me to see MOS:TERRORIST and accused me of violating WP:NOTFORUM and WP:NOTADVOCACY: | |||
*Sameboat wrote: "Please take extra attention to this recent ECU whose edits to I-P articles look rather deceptive to me". | |||
I am confused that several uninvolved users think there is nothing serious here about the conduct of this user (WP:AGF for starts), but ok. In my opinion principle ''courtesy'' is violated by this user. I see that for an example ] is listed ] as for personal attacks, incivility, and assumptions of bad faith for less. Of course it is possible that I made a mistake but I have 2 questions: | |||
* 1) Does this mean that this kind of behavior is allowed? | |||
* 2) If I get a sanctioned for misusing this board does this means that this behavior is in some way tolerated? | |||
I would like to know so I would not repeat the same mistake in the future. Thank you. ] (]) 13:30, 11 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
Concerns for possible ] violations: | |||
*Sameboat wrote on my talk page about Gaza genocide, though they were not involved in the earlier discussion, warning me about WP:NOTFORUM RM:6 December 2024. | |||
Selected examples of my edits which were reverted within hours or minutes (this list is far from comprehensive): | |||
* by Butterscotch Beluga claiming vandalism against a University of Michigan regent was irrelevant to pro-Palestine protests because it happened off campus; | |||
* by Zero arguing that an egregious antisemitic incident 'fails WP:WEIGHT by a mile' | |||
* by Abo Yemen removing my additions to Palestinian perspectives comparing Israel to Nazi Germany from a section on exactly that; along with and by Smallangryplanet; | |||
* by AlsoWukai removing the disappearance of the ]'s $31 million debt when South Africa accused Israel of genocide. | |||
In summary, I have experienced a pattern of consistent, and what appears to be organized, intimidation from a small group of editors. | |||
Response to ]. | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
I will try to respond to some of the points you made, on points I do not respond I believe the diffs I provided before provides sufficient information and no further explanations are needed. Also I am not sure that I must be implicated personally to file this report if there is evidence for claims I presented here. | |||
* 2 - After somebody informs you that you are adding original research you with phrases: ''I gasped at you'', also based on this you even accused this user of personal attack which is unprecedented. Phrase '' of which you know fucking nothing '' isn`t something a wikipedian should use. | |||
* 6 - You considered the addition of some tags to a article created by you as an offense, not as a harmless indicator added in good faith to signal that the article needs to be improved. After that you followed with a personal attack . | |||
* 8 - You closed an active discussion. According to you acted in bad faith. | |||
* 9 - Your edit summary (while you reverted his warning) is a civility problem. The Hungarian phrase ''na szevasz te észlény''(Hello you smartass(or rather doofus/dummy)) is a suggestion of incivility and personal attack. I translated it and if requested we can ask for an uninvolved Hungarian editor to provide a translation. | |||
* 13 - Deleting someone's possible constructive comment on the basis of a personal suspicion(unconfirmed by admins) is a proof of bad faith. | |||
* 14 - According to : When reverting edits, care should be taken not to reinstate material that may be in violation of such core policies as neutrality, verifiability, and biographies of living persons. - you added an unsourced and badly written data(]). Also ''Zboril Are Descendants Of Ilona Szilágyi'' is badly written and unreferenced (]). | |||
===Discussion concerning Selfstudier=== | |||
According to the diffs I provided your behavior presents an serious problem on wikipedia, and I presented only your latest actions. You are well informed of DIGWUREN case yet your behavior is the same as when you were warned or placed under editing notice. '''I am not sure if I need to inform other users of this, but if requested I will.''' | |||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | |||
====Statement by Selfstudier==== | |||
I will avoid to answer your accusations(with which I don`t see a connection to this report) because anyone who disagrees with you meets with one or more accusations. I hope I answered your questions. ] (]) 21:18, 8 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Sean.hoyland==== | |||
I see I've been mentioned but not pinged. That's nice. I encourage anyone to look at the diffs and . Why are there editors in the topic area apparently ignoring ] and ]? It's a mystery. It is, and has always been, one of the root causes of instability in the topic area and wastes so much time. Assigning a cost to advocacy might reduce it. Either way, it needs to be actively suppressed by enforcement of the ] policy. It's a rule, not an aspiration. ] (]) 15:23, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Butterscotch Beluga==== | |||
==== Response to the section specially dedicated to me ==== | |||
I didn't say it was ''"irrelevant to pro-Palestine protests"'' as a whole. The edit I reverted was specifically at ], so as I said, the ''"Incident did not occur at a university campus so is outside the scope of this article"''. We have other articles like ] & more specifically ] that are more in scope of your proposed edit. - ] (]) 20:52, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
Response to the section ''specially'' dedicated to me and not to the this case. Again you me of various things without any solid evidence, you even this user of NPA just for informing you of ]! Even so, I will try to answer them to avoid the confusion you inserted. | |||
Diffs from more than a year ago I don`t want to comment, by that I could enumerate your actions from before. | |||
# Diffs from 2012: | |||
* - You deleted other people`s comments without the evidence of sock or anything else. A proof of bad faith. I commented there according to wiki policies. | |||
* - You did violated 3RR and by entering in an continuing edit war you showed battleground mentality. I also informed other users that you are familiar with DIGWUREN case yet you still show disruptive behavior. | |||
* - Note that on my comment where I provided diffs for my claims you answered | |||
====Statement by Huldra==== | |||
''Note that Iadrian yu is block-shopping again based on frivilous reasons of which I will notify the Arbitration Comitee. Restoring a comment made by a site-banned user is not allowed. Second, I haven't encountered Iadrian yu on Wikipaedia for a while and still he is block shopping. It is disgusting.'' | |||
I wish the filer would have wiki-linked names, then you would easily have seen that ] "is not an expert on Zionism or colonialism”, or that ] “does not appear to be an expert in Zionism or Settler colonial studies but is apparently well known for a pro Israel viewpoint", ] (]) 22:11, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by RolandR==== | |||
and | |||
I too have been mentioned above, and complained about, but not been notified. If this is not a breach of Misplaced Pages regulations, then it ought to be. | |||
As for the substance, I see that I am accused of describing ] as a "non-notable children’s writer". Norman H. Finkelstein was indeed a children's writer, as described in most reports and obituaries. At the time of the original edit and my revert, he was not considered sufficiently notable to merit a Misplaced Pages article; it was only a week later that the OP created an article, of which they have effectively been the only editor. So I stand by my characterisation, which is an accurate and objective description of the author. | |||
''Has this anything to do with you? Note that Iadrian yu does not interest to edit the article; his only aim is block shopping. Second, I do not have to wait until it is confirmed by checkuser if said user admitted that he is a sockpuppet: which part of it do you not understand?'' - where again you did`t waited for the sock to be confirmed (as you stated it yourself) and started accusing me again just because I was there. I am starting to think that there is no encounter in the last year where you did`t responded to my diffs with some sort of accusation against me just because I presented some data and not addressed the evidence I provided. ] (]) 08:46, 9 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
Further, I was concerned that a casual reader might be led to confuse this writer with the highly significant writer ]; in fact, I made my edit after ] had made this mistake and linked the cited author to the genuinely notable person. | |||
This whole report, and the sneaky complaints about me and other editors, is entirely worthless and should be thrown out. | |||
<span style="font-family: Papyrus">] (])</span> 22:29, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Zero0000==== | |||
by OP is illustrative. It is just a presentation of personal belief with weak or irrelevant sources. I don't see evidence of an ability to contribute usefully. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 00:31, 14 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Sameboat==== | |||
==== Additional diffs about Nmate ==== | |||
It is clear that the filer has failed to understand my message, which was a warning about repeated violations of the NotForum policy. Instead, they have misinterpreted my actions, as well as those of others, as part of a coordinated "tag team." I raised my concerns on ] after the filer's edit on the ] article regarding its controversy, which failed to properly attribute the information to its source—the Israeli government. This filing is a complete waste of time, and serious sanctions should be imposed on the filer if similar issues occur again in the future. -- ] (] · ]) 02:17, 14 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
I will add more diffs that demonstrates ]`s behavior problems. | |||
# Adding original research while not allowing other users to edit new pages ? Followed by a problematic edit summary with accusations (Wikistalking). | |||
# - Same problem on different article. | |||
# - Appears in the discussion he was not involved, to participate against me. | |||
# Conditional unblock for edit warring and because Nmate removed data of users that were not confirmed socks yet. | |||
# - An attempt to block me at Arbitration enforcements for no reason, after lacking evidence he canceled the report . | |||
====Statement by AlsoWukai==== | |||
If more diffs are needed I could provide them in given time. ] (]) 14:48, 9 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
Contrary to the filer's complaint, I never made an edit "removing the disappearance of the ANC's $31 million debt when South Africa accused Israel of genocide." I can only conclude that the filer misread the edit history. ] (]) 20:55, 14 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Valereeee==== | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
The diff allthemiles links to above is me responding to their post (in which they complained about a mildly sarcastic remark by another editor) where they said, "If respectful discussion is not possible, administrative involvement will be needed." I've been trying to keep up at that article talk, so I responded giving them my take on it. | |||
Notification ] (]) 12:09, 7 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
I tried to keep engaging, trying to help them understand the challenges for less experienced editors trying to work in the topic, offering advice on how they could get up to speed at that particular article, even offering to continue the discussion at their talk or mine. ] (]) 14:29, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:@], editors working in PIA are brought here often and bring other editors here often for various reasons, and it doesn't always mean a given editor is problematic. For instance, the particular appearance you're referring to was brought here by a suspected sock of an LTA. I've seen admins working here who don't work in PIA wonder if the fact someone is brought here often or brings others here often means that editor is a problem, and I get why it feels like some issue ''with that editor'' has to be a factor, but in my experience it isn't usually. Some of the best editors working in that area are brought here for spurious reasons, and also need to bring other editors here for valid reasons. And some of the worst offenders there avoid AE. ] (]) 11:45, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
=== |
===Result concerning Selfstudier=== | ||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
* While I'm on record as saying that the topic area could us more civility from editors, I'm failing to see anything actionable against the editor filed against here. There's an edit from Oct that isn't great but not even begining to get into my "not civil" category. Then there's a perfectly civil statement about a source from 3 Nov (Hint - "Bernard-Henri Lévy is not an expert on Zionism or colonialism" is exactly the type of discussion that SHOULD be taking place in a contentious topic - it's focused on the source and does not mention any editors at all. The full comment "There is nothing to suggest Bernard-Henri Lévy is an expert on Zionism or colonialism. As I said, it is rather simple to find a source saying what you want it to say, whether that's a WP:BESTSOURCE is another matter." is still quite civil and focused on the source - nothing in this is worth of sanctioning....) The other statement from 3 Nov is also focused on the merits of the source. The fact that it isn't agreeing with your source analysis does not make it dismissive nor uncivil. Frankly, it's quite civil and again, what is expected in a contentious topic - source-based discussion. The comment from 6 Dec is also not uncivil. | |||
* The rest of the filing is not about Selfstudier and is instead an excellent example of (1) throwing a whole bunch of diffs out hoping something will stick to someone and (2) an example of why filings in this area often turn into huge messess that can't reach resolution. This is supposed to be a filing about Selfstudier's behavior - instead most of it is about a grab-bag of other edits from many other editors, and frankly, seems to be motivated by the filer feeling that they aren't being taken seriously enough or something. I'm not going to read any of these diffs because they are not about the editor you filed against and my time is worth something and we should not reward abuse of this process by this sort of grab-bag-against-everyone-that-disagreed-with-an-editor filing. | |||
* The only reason I'm not going for a boomerang against the filer is that they have only been editing for about six months and this is the first AE filing they've done. Let me suggest that they do not file another one like this - it's a waste of admin time. ] (]) 14:48, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I second Ealdgyth's reading. The presented diffs against Selfstudier are not actionable, and a lot of the complaint is not about Selfstudier at all. I don't believe the filing alone is grounds for sanction on the filer, but if someone wishes to present more evidence against them I suggest they do so in a separate report. ] (]) 21:27, 14 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I stumbled into this by accident and I don't do these requests anymore, but I wonder if filer should edit outside the subject area until they have much more experience in ] and dispute resolution.YMMV. Best] (]) 08:03, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*Another case on this editor was just closed a week ago, is there any relation between this filing and issues brought up in ]? It seems like some editors are brought to AE on a weekly basis. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 08:33, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
{{hab}} | |||
==Rasteem== | |||
====Statement by Nmate==== | |||
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> | |||
I do not understand what Iadrian yu wants to achieve here. | |||
14 diffs are brought up here most of them do not concern Iadrian yu. So what does he deal with my alleged "bad faith" then? It is senseless. | |||
*1. line, it does not concern Iadrian yu. He did not even take part in this discussion. So what does he deal with my alleged "bad faith" then? There was no point in continuing the discussion there. Closing a discussion is not such a big concern, I did not edit war on closing it. Omen1229 reverted it back. Interestingly enough that no-one participated in the discussion afterwards | |||
*2. line, it does not concern Iadrian yu. He did not even take part in this discussion. So what does he deal with my alleged "bad faith" then? | |||
*3. line, First diff does not concern Iadrian yu. He did not even take part in this discussion. So what does he deal with my alleged "bad faith" then? Second diff indeed concerns Iadrian yu, I will return to the issue later. | |||
*4. line, it does not concern Iadrian yu and has nothing to do with original research. I deleted the "unreferenced" and "copy edit" tags from the lead. And I also do not understand what Iadrian yu deals with my bad faith. | |||
*5. line same as above. | |||
*6. line, it does not concern Iadrian yu. It is related to 4. and 5. lines. I had a slight disagrement with one another user whom Iadrian yu has never interacted with, but it was resolved. | |||
*7. line, the edit in question was not even mine. | |||
*8. line, it was a revert, nothing more. | |||
:And that my edit summary ''"referenced but irrelevant information that no need to include in the article. The historical section requies only an overview of the history. Lots of pieces of info is written in the article in bad English in addition"'' can be interpreted as "Bad faith and battleground mentality" surpasses the power of my imaginary. | |||
*9. line, What does Iadrian yu deal with an edit summary related to my talk page? It was not incivility. On the other hand, Iadrian does even no speak Hungarian; therefore, he is unable to translate it. | |||
*10. line, it wasn't OR. | |||
*11. line, it was a revert. Later, it evolved to a samaller edit war. It does not concern Iadrian yu. It is related to 4. 5. and 6. lines. I had a slight disagrement with one another user whom Iadrian yu has never interacted with, but it was resolved. Finally, said user told me ''"Again, if you ever have questions, please feel free to contact me. Best regards,"'' | |||
*12.line, ''This behavior combined with trying to block other users'' Whom? If the other user is ], he is an indef-bloked user. What is more, admin The Blade of the Northern Light told in this thread that he revoked Samofi's talk page access. | |||
*13. line, "Reverting other peoples messages, even a Request for comment." Indded, I did it. The user was a sockpuppet using proxy IP. | |||
*14. line, it is deceptive. At the article ], I reverted a lot of edits made by 2 sockpuppets of a well known sockpuppeter And yet at the same time, one another user who knew nothing of the situation intervened there by restoring the sockpuppet's edit. Then I indeed reverted the edit back that has nothing to do with any kind of battleground mentality. However, Iadrian yu cared to include the only one revert here when I did not revert the sockpuppetter to double-cross the administrators. | |||
===Request concerning Rasteem=== | |||
To Iadrian yu | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|NXcrypto}} 03:06, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Rasteem}}<p>{{ds/log|Rasteem}}</p> | |||
*2. line, After somebody informs you that you are adding original research you responded with phrases: I gasped at you, also based on this you even accused this user of personal attack which is unprecedented. Phrase of which you know fucking nothing isn`t something a wikipedian should use. | |||
*response: Seriously??? It was not OR. You can hardly bring this issue up at WP AE. This might belong to Wikiquette. | |||
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
*6. line, You considered the addition of some tags to a article created by you as an offense, not as a harmless indicator added in good faith to signal that the article needs to be improved. After that you followed with a personal attack. | |||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] | |||
*response: It was not a personal attack, but a frolic. Please learn some more English. What do you deal with that? It did not concern you. To repeat myself, it was resolved: said user told me "Again, if you ever have questions, please feel free to contact me. Best regards," Withal, I think that a user may not request for remedy for any personal attacks that do not concern him except for extraordinary reasons such as blackmailing, death threat, or when the attacked user is inactive. However, Iadrian yu showed up at WP AE making demands for admin action against me for purporated personal attacks aimed at active users he has never ever encountered on Misplaced Pages while he "forgot" to notify the attacked users in question. | |||
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | |||
*8. line, You closed an active discussion. | |||
*response: That discussion wasn't so active. Please check how many people wanted to participate in it afterwards. Btw you can hardly bring this issue up at WP AE. This might belong to Wikiquette. | |||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | |||
*9. line, Your edit summary (while you reverted his warning) is a civility problem. The Hungarian phrase na szevasz te észlény(Hello you smartass(or rather doofus/dummy)) is a suggestion of incivility and personal attack. I translated it and if requested we can ask for an uninvolved Hungarian editor to provide a translation | |||
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.--> | |||
*response: I do not think that any administrator gives a hoot about that. Withal, I think that a user may not request for remedy for any personal attacks that do not concern him except for extraordinary reasons such as blackmailing, death threat, or when the attacked user is inactive. However, Iadrian yu showed up at WP AE making demands for admin action against me for purporated personal attacks aimed at active users he has never ever encountered on Misplaced Pages while he "forgot" to notify the attacked users in question. | |||
# - removed wikilink of an Indian railway station thus violating his topic ban from India and Pakistan. | |||
*13. line - Deleting someone's possible constructive comment on the basis of a personal suspicion(unconfirmed by admins) is a proof of bad faith. | |||
*response: Only that it was confirmed. | |||
This violation comes after he was already warned for his first violation of the topic ban. | |||
*14. line: According to Banning policy: When reverting edits, care should be taken not to reinstate material that may be in violation of such core policies as neutrality, verifiability, and biographies of living persons. - you added an unsourced and badly written data(WP:OR). Also Zboril Are Descendants Of Ilona Szilágyi is badly written and unreferenced (WP:OR). | |||
*response: First Iadrian yu accused me of "Bad faith and battleground mentality" and when he saw that it did not fit to common sense, he begans referring to banning policy and verifiability | |||
Upon a closer look into his recent contribution, I found that he is simply ] the system by creating articles like ] which is overall only 5,400 bytes but he made nearly 50 edits here. This is clearly being done by Rasteem for passing the 500 edits mark to get his topic ban overturned. | |||
=====More on Iadrian yu===== | |||
Iadrian yu pretends that there was some serious offense. It’s obvious he stores some kind of file on me, watches all my edits, even ones which don’t concern him in the least bit, looking for some “dirt”. This is explicit evidence of ‘’’long term, sustained, stalking’’’. Additonally, he accuses me of battleground mentality, and bad faith acting towards 3 users: ], ] ,and ] without his making any attempt to notify either of them about the fact that he lodged a request for arbitration for me in which they are involved. So why? It is because of the fact that he has never interacted with these users, and I also just coincidentally encountered them in Misplaced Pages. Therefore, it is unlikely that they would like to participate in his block shopping campaign here. | |||
I recommend increasing the topic ban to indefinite duration. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 03:06, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*previous attempts at block shopping: | |||
#. ''There is not enough to warrant a block at this time'': | |||
# frivilous SPI case, ''I see no evidence that would warrant an investigation of the other mentioned users'': | |||
# ''Calling my "involvement" - eager to block you is just ridiculous ..... in my opinion you should take a wiki-break''. | |||
<br /> | |||
On 20 April, 2012, I began reverting edits made to Misplaced Pages by a self-admitted sockpuppet, and Iadrian yu appeared at the "edit warring board" - which is a place to get blocks - in order to agitate for one another block for me: | |||
#(''"Again a new problem with this user"'') | |||
# (''"in this examples it is clear that Nmate violated the 3RR several times and of course the battleground mentality of edit warring"'') | |||
# | |||
# (''"Ah, another sign of a constructive, friendly editing I guess ... after several arbitration enforcements on your account"'') | |||
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : "topic banned from the subject of India and Pakistan, broadly construed, until both six months have elapsed and they have made 500 edits after being notified of this sanction." | |||
I think that Iadrian yu has been on a permanent campaign to eliminate an editor who he disagrees with. At this point, this should be disruptive enough to require some block. | |||
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]): | |||
=====Response to Iadrian yu regarding: response to the section specially dedicated to me===== | |||
Interesting enough that it is Iadrian yu who has reported me at WP AE, and yet he dares to tell that I accuse him of various things without any solid evidence. | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | |||
*You deleted other people`s comments without the evidence of sock or anything else. A proof of bad faith. I commented there according to wiki policies. | |||
<!-- Add any further comment here --> | |||
*I agree that there are genuine CIR issues with Rasteem, for example while this ARE report is in progress they created ], which has promotional statements like: "The lake's stunning caluts, majestic desert topographies, and serene lakes produce a shifting destination. Its unique charm attracts a wide range of guests, from adventure contenders to nature suckers and beyond". ] <small><small>]</small></small> 03:26, 14 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
My reply is: it was a block-shopping on you part, everyone can see it with a half brain. Then the sockpuppet was blocked, no adim action was taken against me. | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request (you may use {{subst:AE-notice|thread name}}), and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. --> | |||
*You did violated 3RR and by entering in an continuing edit war you showed battleground mentality. I also informed other users that you are familiar with DIGWUREN case yet you still show disruptive behavior. | |||
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
My reply is: Had I violated the 3RR rule , I would have blocked for it. No-one, but ] was blocked there. Normally, the edit warring board has nothing to do with DIGWUREN. However, you began retairating DIGWURREN there in the hope of that it may result in me being blocked even more seriously than as usuall happens in the edit warring board. I resent "the disruptive behavior". You are the one being disruptive. | |||
===Discussion concerning Rasteem=== | |||
There is nothing to further comment on this line.--] (]) 08:15, 11 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | |||
====Statement by Rasteem==== | |||
====Comments by others about the request concerning Nmate==== | |||
This approach seems to be a coordinated attack to abandon me from Misplaced Pages indefinitely. Indeed, after my ban for 6 months. I was banned on 6 December, and in just 7 days, this report is literally an attempt to make me leave Misplaced Pages. | |||
I don't know who's pushing the most POV here, but "Lots of pieces of info is written in the article in bad English in addition" was ]. ] (]) 18:29, 7 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
1. I rolled back my own edit; it was last time made unintentionally. I was about to revert it, but my internet connection was lost, so when I logged in again, I regressed it. | |||
] - I am also surprised that you don`t see anything wrong with the diffs. In my opinion Future Perfect at Sunrise is not neutral admin. He acts in favour of Nmate. He used "boomerang" phrase in my case, in case of user Samofi and again in case of Adrian. On the other hand he always acted quickly in Nmate benefit or in favour of other editors from his POV/country. For example this case: At 22 November 2011 he promised he will look on my "oponnents": But nothing happened. On the other hand after canvass of Nmate he had time to block Samofi . This was reason for him for topic ban: and this for a block: But for example this statement (''The '''modern Slovakia is a neo-fascist state''' where the hungarian minority is just a thing what they have to assimilate into the slovak society.'' ) was unnoticed. It looks like a admin abuse. In my opinion user Nmate wants to block all users with different opinions.--] (]) 11:58, 9 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
::Making an attack on one of the admins will only reinforce a boomerang and will quickly lose you anything sympathy. Please don't do that. ] (]) 22:00, 9 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
The internet is constantly slow and sometimes goes down. I live in a hilly location and I had formerly mentioned it. | |||
* I notice I was mentioned by name, but not informed of this. I suggest the admins look at ], to get an idea of the failure to AGF. The comments on my page arose from ] (]) 21:54, 9 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
* I think the actual concern here is that Nmate has been adding unsourced material. It looks like this has been mostly translated from the Hungarian Misplaced Pages. At the same time he was deleting large amounts of sourced material, but which was based on rather obscure (Slovakian?) sources. In the latter case there was zero discussion on the talk page ]; there was some on a ]. The unsourced material he added was challenged on the assumption that it was "OR", which is not a productive line of discussion; again this was (unhelpfully) discussed on user talk pages, such as IRWolfie-'s. ] (]) 15:53, 10 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
* There are no major mistakes or signs of outrageous behavior in the provided diffs. I do not see the point of this request. Content disputes, such as what is OR and which information are relevant to particular articles, should be discussed on the appropriate Talk Pages. All the best, ] ] 09:10, 11 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
My edits on Arjan Lake isn't any ] factual number of edits I made; it is 45, not 50. Indeed, I made similar edits before in September and December months on the same articles within a single day or 2-3 days. | |||
===Result concerning Nmate=== | |||
<!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.--> | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''e | |||
*For clarity's sake, I've disabled Samofi's talkpage access as it was becoming incredibly obvious nothing good would come from him having it. Nmate posted a message on my talkpage asking me to, and I honestly don't read anything into it; no matter how slanted any request to block a user and/or disable talkpage access, admins are supposed to independently review the situation. Same thing goes for the requests above. That said, there may have been other issues that I didn't see, so I'll look over everything again. ] (]) 15:03, 8 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
*I must say that I have never seen an AE request that features so many instances of the phrase "bad faith". ] (]) 15:11, 8 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
* I can see nothing actionable in the diffs against Nmate, but would support boomerang measures against Iadrian yu for misusing this board. ] ] 08:54, 9 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
* The comment above by Tjfo098 offers the first evidence I've seen that there is any issue at all with Nmate's recent edits. Those particular examples are hard to get excited about. Checking (back to late August) doesn't show me anything alarming. This AE by Iadrian yu is certainly close to being a misuse of the board. Per Future Perfect's suggestion for a boomerang, I would support a warning to ] for wasting our time. ] (]) 13:07, 11 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
{{hab}} | |||
2. ] on this article, I've added 5680 bytes & made 43 edits. | |||
== Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Mooretwin == | |||
3. ] on this article I've added 4000 bytes & made 49 edits. | |||
<small>''Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found ]. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. <p>To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see ]).''</small> | |||
====Statement by (username)==== | |||
; Appealing user : {{userlinks|Mooretwin}} – ] (]) 14:56, 9 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. --> | |||
===Result concerning Rasteem=== | |||
; Sanction being appealed : Indefinite topic ban on articles, discussions, and other content related to The Troubles, the Ulster banner and British baronets, imposed at ]. The decision allowed for an appeal after six months. The decision was imposed on 10 February 2012, therefore six months passed on 10 August 2012. | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. --> | |||
* While I don't see a change in editing pattern that indicates gaming, the edits to ] indicate issues with competence, as the article is weirdly promotional and contains phrases such as "beast species", "emotional 263 proved species". ] (]) 20:57, 13 December 2024 (UTC) <!-- | |||
--> | |||
*Adding to {{u|Femke}}'s point, {{tpq|magnific 70- cadence-high waterfalls in this area}} is not prose that inspires confidence in the editor's competence to edit the English Misplaced Pages. So, we have violations of a topic ban and questions about the editor's linguistic competence and performance. Perhaps an indefinite block appealable in six months with a recommendation to build English competency by editing the Simple English Misplaced Pages, and to build general Misplaced Pages skills by editing in the version of Misplaced Pages in the language they speak best during that minimum six month period. As for ], although the prose is poor, the references in the article make it clear to me that the topic is notable, so the editor deserves some credit for starting this article that did not exist for two decades plus. ] (]) 08:57, 14 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*Brief comment to avoid the archive bot. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 17:46, 25 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
==שלומית ליר== | |||
; Administrator imposing the sanction : {{admin|T. Canens}} | |||
{{hat | |||
| result = ] is reminded to double-check edits before publishing, and to try to reply more promptly when asked about potential mistakes. ] (]) 20:21, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
}} | |||
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> | |||
===Request concerning שלומית ליר=== | |||
; Notification of that administrator : ''The appealing editor is asked to notify the administrator who made the enforcement action of this appeal, and then to replace this text with a ] of that notification. The appeal may not be processed otherwise. If a block is appealed, the editor moving the appeal to this board should make the notification.'' | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Nableezy}} 23:48, 15 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
===Statement by Mooretwin=== | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|שלומית ליר}}<p>{{ds/log|שלומית ליר}}</p> | |||
I have abided by the topic ban for nearly eight months, and I would like it to be lifted. I have demonstrated restraint in this period and I have learned my lesson about making frivolous and retaliatory complaints against other editors. I acted in the "heat of the moment" and shall not do so again. Prior to the incident in question, I had successfully managed to avoid confrontation, edit wars, etc., for a period of two years. | |||
:I've largely restricted myself to updating sports articles, as a scan through "My Contributions" will testify. Not much collaboration, I'm afraid, although I did instigate a discussion that led to a consensus for merging an article: . I'll notify T. Canens. ] (]) 15:36, 9 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
::It would be unreasonable, surely, if the ban were not lifted because of the single inocuous (and constructive) edit idenfitied by T. Canens. And why was I even banned from "British baronetcies" anyway? Bizarre. On the wider point, how is it possible to demonstrate collaborative editing if I am banned from all the topics about which I have sufficient knowledge to contribute? ] (]) 22:04, 12 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] | |||
===Statement by T. Canens=== | |||
As I was acting on a consensus of uninvolved admins in enacting the topic ban, I don't think it's appropriate for me to unilaterally lift it. | |||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | |||
After a very quick look, I have a question for Mooretwin: Do you think violate your topic ban from "... British baronets"? ] (]) 20:27, 12 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
#] claiming a source supports something it never mentions | |||
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : | |||
===Statement by (involved editor 1)=== | |||
N/A | |||
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]): | |||
===Statement by (involved editor 2)=== | |||
*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on ] (see the system log linked to above). | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | |||
===Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Mooretwin === | |||
The user wrote that NATO had supported accusations against Hamas citing a titled Hamas and Human Rights in a book titled . They cited the entire chapter, pages 56–126. The source itself is a work of scholarship, and nobody would challenge it as a reliable source. Luckily, the full text of the book is available via the , and anybody with access to that can verify for themselves that the word "shield" appears nowhere in the book. Not human shield, or even NATO (nato appears in searches with the results being "expla'''nator'''y, twice and coordi'''nato'''r once, or Atlantic, or N.A.T.O. It is simply made up that this source supports that material. The user later, after being challenged but declining to answer what in the source supports it (see ]), added another source that supposedly supports the material, paper by NATO StratCom COE, however they themselves say they are , though that misunderstanding is certainly forgivable. However, completely making up that a source supports something, with a citation to 70 pages of a book, is less so. That is to me a purposeful attempt at obfuscating that the source offered does not support the material added, and the lack of any attempt of explaining such an edit on the talk page led me to file a report here. ''']''' - 23:48, 15 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
I am not involved in this but if this user has changed as he proved he is I am always for giving a second chance. Also he waited for 8 months while he could ask for this 2 months earlier. ] (]) 15:07, 9 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
:It’s a matter for AE because violations in a CT topic are AE matters and I’ve previously been told to come here instead of AN(I). What sanction? I don’t think there’s any action more serious than making up something about a source, so I’d say it would be anywhere from a logged, and first only, warning to a topic ban. The second sourcing issue isn’t a huge deal, but the first one, the diff im reporting, is IMO such a severe violation that it merits a sanction. I don’t think this is simply misrepresentation, it is complete fabrication. They cited 70 pages of a book without a quote, to a link that doesn’t have the text. Without the Misplaced Pages Library this would have been much more difficult to check. This is going back a while, but ] was a similar situation reported here. If there had been some explanation given on the talk page I wouldn’t have reported this here, but the wholesale fabrication of claiming that a source that never mentions the topic supports some material was ignored there. ''']''' - 14:28, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:Regarding the baronets block, this was initially added to the standard troubles wording due to edit warring in that area by users like Vintagekits. It has long ceased to be an area of contention and an appeal two months ago resulted in that part of the wording being While existing sanctions do still include the Baronets portion, it would seem harsh in this case to sanction an editor for a minor edit to a topic which they had never edited in a disruptive way in the past. ] (]) 08:32, 13 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
::I want to be clear, I am not claiming any sanctionable behavior in the second diff. I only brought it up to say that rather than address the fabrication in the first one they simply attempted to add some other source. They have as yet not addressed the diff I am reporting here. I am only claiming an issue in that diff citing the book chapter for a book that never even says the word shield in it. ''']''' - 19:47, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::According to , the insertion of that source was ], the diff I've reported. As far as I can tell no other user has introduced that source on that page. The revision that the user below says has the sources they took from {{tq|in the article's edit history}} is ''after'' the insertion of that source by that user. If there is some prior revision showing that source being used for that statement then I'd withdraw my complaint, but that does not appear to be the case. ''']''' - 19:58, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
::::If that is indeed reproducible then I suggest this be closed with a reminder, not a logged warning, to check the output of any tool more thoroughly. And answer questions about your edits when raised on the talk page instead of ignoring them. ''']''' - 19:50, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::::Just noting that I verified the bug in the VE sandbox as well. Had I been told of that sequence when I asked about the edit I obviously would not have opened this request. ''']''' - 18:25, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
===Result of the appeal by Mooretwin=== | |||
] | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
<!-- Use {{discussion top}} / {{discussion bottom}} to mark this request as closed.--> | |||
Mooretwin, can you please link to examples of you working well on Misplaced Pages in the last six months, especially in highly collaborative ways? Furthermore, please notify T. Canens of this discussion.--] (]) 15:22, 9 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
===Discussion concerning שלומית ליר=== | |||
*Generally I'm opposed to lifting indef sanctions on the basis of their being waited out. If we were putting somebody out of an area for a specific length of time we'd issue a ban of definite duration. HJ Mitchell is making a similar point (in an unrelated thread) below. Indef bans are issued to adjust behaviour ''until such time that it is fixed''. Thus the only reason we have to lift such bans is demonstrable changes in the behaviour that led to the ban. <br>In this case the diff Tim Canens lists above shows MooreTwin has in fact infringed the ban within the last week. For my money, even if we mark this down as a mistake MooreTwin's activities involved little collaboration with others. As harmonious collaborative editing is at the heart of the issue that led to MooreTwin's ban I'd be open to reviewing this again after MooreTwin shows more collaboration on site--] <sup>]</sup> 21:10, 12 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | |||
::Well, if the decision explicitly allows an appeal after 6 months time (which it did), I don't think it's reasonable to keep the sanction standing just on principle. However, maybe it is better to use a gradual approach. We can narrow the topic ban now, to give the user the chance to contribute positively in areas he is competent in, and consider the remaining ban later. Concretely, I suggest to limit the topic ban to The Troubles (which is a hotspot of trouble anyways) now, and to allow an appeal for the rest of the ban to be lifted in 3 to 6 months. --] (]) 22:49, 12 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
:*I've no objection to dropping the clause about British baronetcies from this ban, but in my opinion the indef ban from ] should stay in place. Mooretwin has and has been . Unless he wants to present real data to show how collaborative he has been in the past six months I don't see any motive for lifting the ban. The mere passage of time is not enough. ] (]) 23:20, 12 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
*I am broadly in agreement with Stephen Shultz, but also sympathetic to Cailil's viewpoint. I think we should open up an area that is close to (within broadly construed) the problem area and see how Mooretwin is able to edit in that area. This will allow us to actually see if Mooretwin's behavior has changed, or not.--] (]) 01:57, 13 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by שלומית ליר==== | |||
*:Agree with the broad thrust above - I see no problem with lifting the Baronets ban - this was removed recently by the Arbcom from the Troubles ruling so I see no reason to leave it in place. However as above I agree with Ed - passage of time has nothing to do with Indefinite sanctions. The 6 month appeal process is there to give the person time to adjust and to show change. <br>In short agree with Steven's suggestion reduce ban to cover troubles only, but leave in place indefinitely until MooreTwin shows more positive collaboration on site in other topic areas--] <sup>]</sup> 13:51, 13 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
The article "Use of human shields by Hamas" is intended to address a well-documented phenomenon: Hamas’s deliberate use of civilian infrastructure — homes, hospitals, and mosques — as shields for its military operations. This includes hiding weapons, constructing military tunnels beneath civilian populations, and knowingly placing innocent lives in harm’s way. Yet, I found the article falls far short of adequately describing this phenomenon. It presents vague and generalized accusations while failing to reference the numerous credible organizations that have extensively documented these practices. | |||
During my review, I discovered that essential sources were available in the article's edit history (https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Use_of_human_shields_by_Hamas&oldid=1262868174). I retrieved and restored these sources without reverting prior edits, including a source referenced by user Nableezy. When it was brought to my attention that an error had occurred, I acknowledged it, thanked the user, and corrected it by incorporating two reliable references. I had hoped this would resolve the issue, but apparently, it did not. | |||
== Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Hearfourmewesique == | |||
Now, I find myself the subject of an arbitration enforcement hearing that feels not only unwarranted but intended to intimidate me from contributing further to this article. | |||
<small>''Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found ]. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. <p>To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see ]).''</small> | |||
I would also like to point out that the responses to my edits raise serious concerns. For instance, an image depicting missiles hidden in a family home — an image used in other Wikipedias to illustrate this topic — was removed. This raises the question: why obscure such critical evidence? Similarly, a scholarly source with credible information that emphasizes the severity of this issue was reverted without clear justification. | |||
; Appealing user : {{userlinks|Hearfourmewesique}} – ] (]) 15:53, 9 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
This article should serve as a thorough account of Hamas's war crimes, which have resulted in the deaths of innocent civilians. Instead, it seems that some editors are working to dilute its substance, resisting efforts to include vital context and documentation at the start of the article. This undermines the article’s purpose and risks distorting the public’s understanding of an issue of profound international importance.] (]) 19:52, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
; Sanction being appealed : Topic ban from the subject of Israeli-Palestinian conflict, imposed at ] | |||
:I want to add that what Nableezy’s accusation is a complete misrepresentation (and, at times, distortion) of the sequence of events. A reference was mistakenly carried over from a previous editor, and once it was pointed out that it lacked the necessary supporting quotes, I removed it myself. | |||
; Administrator imposing the sanction : {{admin|NuclearWarfare}} | |||
:I find it difficult to accept that failing to respond immediately to an inquiry regarding a removed source (and good faith attempt to find a sufficient replacement) equates to misrepresentation. I strongly believe that using this forum to imply such a thing, based on the actual facts here, is a misuse of the process. | |||
:To the arbitrators: I want to ensure the sequence of events is clear, so I request permission to strike through extraneous elements in my initial response, if necessary, to include more technical evidence while staying within the 500-word limit ] (]) 21:06, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:: <small>(moved from V93's comment)</small> It’s simple. If you copy the reference from the previous version: ''<nowiki/>'Hamas' use of human shields in Gaza' (PDF), NATO Strategic Communications Centre of Excellence,'' and add it using the automatic reference tool, it changes it to: Mukhimer, Tariq (2013), ''Hamas and Human Rights'', ''Hamas Rule in Gaza'', New York: Palgrave Macmillan US, pp. 56–126, ISBN 978-1-349-45658-1, retrieved 2024-12-17. | |||
; Notification of that administrator : | |||
::This is an innocent error caused by the Wiki program itself. You can try it and see for yourself. | |||
::'''Where it led and what Nableezy allowed himself to do is a story by itself that demands investigation''' ] (]) 12:21, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:While I see your point, '''the issue here was indeed caused by a bug in the 'Add a Cite' tool on automatic mode.''' | |||
*:I suggest you take the time to verify this before jumping to far-reaching conclusions. | |||
*:. ] (]) 23:48, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:Thanks for checking it out and confirming; I appreciate it. ] (]) 23:25, 17 December 2024 (UTC) <small>Moved comment to own section. Please comment only in this section. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 23:47, 17 December 2024 (UTC) </small> | |||
===Statement by Hearfourmewesique=== | |||
*:::True, and I would most definitely will check next time. ] (]) 23:50, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
It has been almost 10 months since the topic ban, and it was not violated once. I have also embraced a much more cool headed approach to this topic as a whole. Please give me a chance to prove that I can be a valuable editor. | |||
*Note to Tijfo098: it really has '''nothing''' to do with ARBPIA, which I have been fully respecting ever since the topic ban. Aside from the fact that I've been politely pointing out ad hominem attacks and expressing support for the existence of an article about persecution by Muslims in a civil manner, is there anything you perceive as "behavior issues"? ] (]) 18:21, 9 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Supreme Deliciousness==== | |||
@Tznkai - :I will look for it a little later, have to go soon. ] (]) 18:22, 9 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
Valereee created the article ]. She is therefor involved in the topic area and shouldn't be editing in the uninvolved admin section.--] (]) 08:41, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*To Tijfo098: Volunteer Marek was consistent in making sure to smear almost each and every "keep" vote, using borderline personal attacks at times, in repeated – and unmasked – attempts to discredit each voter (to quote ]: "Comment on content, not on the contributor."), as well as reasserting the closing admins with notes restating the obvious, in a manner that can be perceived only as excessively persuasive. Examples: While the expression "in a manner worthy of the finest of spammers" is quite tongue-in-cheek, it's still far from violating ]. ] (]) 03:36, 13 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
===Statement by NuclearWarfare=== | |||
I'm fine with whatever other admins want to decide, though I personally would recommend against it. '''<font color="navy">]</font>''' ''(<font color="green">]</font>)'' 18:16, 9 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
===Statement by ( |
====Statement by (username)==== | ||
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. --> | |||
===Result concerning שלומית ליר=== | |||
===Statement by (involved editor 2)=== | |||
===Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Hearfourmewesique === | |||
Was he topic banned? I never noticed | |||
. ] (]) 18:06, 9 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
:What is has to do with ] area?--] (])/] 18:07, 9 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
:: Behavior. ] (]) 18:09, 9 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
:: @H: "in a manner worthy of finest of spammers" is not a polite expression. And in the same conversation you complain about "the obvious and borderline ad hominem remarks" presumably said by someone else. ]. ] (]) 21:33, 9 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
===Result of the appeal by Hearfourmewesique=== | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | :''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | ||
* Please forgive my ignorance, but what specific sanction are you requesting and what exactly makes this possible interconnected source misrepresentation a matter that needs AE? Is the information removed (I'm assuming it is). Is this a long-term pattern? The filing even admits that the second instance is understandable given the name of the group putting out the source. I would be more concerned if this was a continuing problem - are there other recent instances of this editor possibly misrepresenting a source? And I'm still not sure that source misrepresntation is something that falls under AE's remit, rather than just something that could be dealt with at ANI or AN? Not saying no, but I'm not sure we need the big gun of AE for this just yet. ] (]) 13:02, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
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** I'm not sure I'm ready to (1) take a 2011 discussion as binding in 2024 and (2) decide unilaterally that "violations in a CT topic are AE matters". Sorry, but I'm not that much of a cowboy (despite the cowboy hat in my closet and the ] horses in my paddock). I'm not trying to be difficult and not at all trying to minimize the severity of source misrepresentation - but I do not see where this topic area has sanctions authorized for that specific behavior - civility and aspersions yeah, but I'd like to see what other admins think. I also would like to see if שלומית ליר has any statement to make (while noting that not replying here is a very bad look for them). ] (]) 14:40, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
Hearfourmewesique, can you please link to examples of you working well on Misplaced Pages in the last six months, especially in highly collaborative ways?--] (]) 16:41, 9 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
**:I would agree with Nableezy's view regarding jurisdiction, and was under the impression that this was already standard practice. AE is intended to address disruptive editing in designated contentious topics--source misrepresentation is definitely disruptive editing even if it was not specifically a matter of issue for the parties to ARBPIA4. <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 14:45, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
***: I'm perfectly happy to be shown that it's a matter for AE, I've just not seen it dealt with that I can remember (bearing in mind that I'm not as young as some other folks and can forget things) and I don't see it mentioned in the CT topics bits or in the case pages referred to. I prefer to err on the side of caution in these matters. ] (]) 14:50, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
***::To my reading it would be directly justified by ] point 2: {{tq| ...requests for an individual enforcement action against aware editors who engage in misconduct in a contentious topic}} <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 14:57, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
***::] is a report where I ~recently sanctioned for source misrepresentation. ] (]) 15:00, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*: I'm sorry - but I find this explanation ... not quite believable. Nableezy is saying that the Mukhimer source was introduced ]. You claim that "If you copy the reference from the previous version: 'Hamas' use of human shields in Gaza' (PDF), NATO Strategic Communications Centre of Excellence, and add it using the automatic reference tool, it changes it to: Mukhimer, Tariq (2013), Hamas and Human Rights, Hamas Rule in Gaza, New York: Palgrave Macmillan US, pp. 56–126, ISBN 978-1-349-45658-1, retrieved 2024-12-17." What automatic reference tool? And even if the tool is malfunctioning - you are responsible for your edits - especially in such a fraught topic area. Looking at the ] its pretty clear that the first citation is listing the author as "Mukhimer" which should have clued you in (if indeed the automatic tool is a problem) that there was an issue. And when Nableezy raised this issue on the talk page - you didn't actually try this explanation or even any explanation, you just replied "I thought you noticed and understood that I had updated the references." which is deeply concerning that you did not consider the fact that you inserted references that did not support the material (and yes, I did do a rapid read/skim of the Mukhimer work's chapter that was in that citation - the chapter is mostly concerned with Hamas' internal governance and human rights record. I saw nothing discussing human shields or even the war with Israel in that chapter (the chapter does discuss Hamas' actions against Gazans that Hamas accuses of spying/etc for Israel, but nothing about actual military conflict)). The lack of collaborative explanation and the seeming unconcern about the issues brought up are making me lean towards a topic ban, frankly. | |||
*: I apologize that it took me a while to circle back to this - yesterday was a day of small things breaking and needing to be taken care of and I didn't have the time in the afternoon that I expected to revisit this. ] (]) 14:27, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:: And add yet one more reason to not use VE.... if its some weird bug, then yes, a warning is sufficient. But, really, you need to double check when you use tools to make sure that there are not bugs (and yes, Visual Editor is buggy...) ] (]) 20:16, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I've gone on record saying that I consider source misrepresentation to be some of the most disruptive conduct in a contentious topic - it is insidious in a way that calling another editor names is not. That does not mean I support sanctions by default, but I do think we need to take such a report seriously. A lot depends on the specific circumstances - the second instance above seems like a very easy mistake to make - but I would like to hear from שלומית ליר. ] (]) 19:41, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:שלומית ליר, I would like to see a specific response to Nableezy's evidence about where you got your source, so please go ahead and strike or collapse parts of your original statement (please don't remove anything entirely). NB; we are (mostly) administrators enforcing arbitration decisions here, not arbitrators ourselves. ] (]) 21:19, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I agree with Vanamonde that source misrepresentation is disruptive on its face, and the first time I see it, AGF is pretty much gone. ] (]) 19:55, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:I agree that if this was a bug -- which is really concerning -- then a logged warning is overkill, especially given this editor's inexperience. ] (]) 15:19, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I'm not sure what "automatic reference tool" is being referred to here, but I'm generally not impressed with "It was the tool's fault." Editors are responsible for the edits they make, and while of course there's no problem with using tools to help, the editor, not the tool, is still responsible for ensuring that the final result accurately represents the sources which are cited. Overall, I'd tend toward Ealdgyth's line of thinking; source misrepresentation is an extremely serious form of misconduct and must under no circumstances be tolerated. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 15:39, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:{{u|שלומית ליר}}, it has now been necessary on several occasions to move your comments to the proper section from other editors' sections or this one. '''Do not comment outside your own section again.''' ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 09:13, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:Above stuff out of the way, if this actually is reproducible, it may be wise to check Phabricator to see if such an issue has been reported—chances are pretty good this isn't the only time that bug will bite. I'm good with a logged warning to more carefully vet the output of automated editing tools before making the edit, given that. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 09:16, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:: Isn't a logged warning a bit too much for not catching a bug? I'd rather go for a reminder as Nableezy suggests. Will check Phab or open a new phab ticket when I've got a bit more time. ] (]) 11:16, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:::I still don't ''love'' the whole thing, but it seems that most people want to just do an informal reminder, so I've got no strong objection (of course, as long as the bug actually does get reported, if it's not been already.) ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 17:49, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
* To my surprise, it's true that copying that text into VE's automatic citation formatter gives this output. Most absurd bug I've ever seen. Of course it's an editor's responsibility to check if the citation is correct, but this is not something you might think to check for, especially as a newer editor. While intentionally misrepresenting a source is highly disruptive, I don't think this weird error is sanctionable. I would like to give ] one piece of advice for editing a contentious topic like this: always use edit summaries (you can change your settings so that you're warned if you forget them). That can help reduce misunderstandings. ] (]) 19:05, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
* I agree with Femke about how to resolve this request, including the advice to check things and to use edit summaries. I am also extremely concerned about the bug-created citation issue and wonder where is the best place to request that the error be investigated and fixed. ] (]) 14:58, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. --> | |||
*<!-- | |||
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{{hab}} | |||
==KronosAlight== | |||
*Two thoughts occur (my remarks on the AE report that led to this ban are worth reading for context). One is that an indefinite topic ban, though not in''finite'', is at the more severe end of the spectrum of sanctions we impose at AE (and, having just re-read the original AE report) I'm as convinced now as I was then that the ban is just), so I'm inclined against lifting it before a year has elapsed. The second is that I'd like to know how Hearfourmewesique thinks their presence in the topic area could be of benefit. ] | ] 18:26, 9 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> | |||
::Still waiting on examples, but I see no purpose to a minimum sentencing attitude if there is any good reason to lift a restriction. We're not serving justice or anything like that.--] (]) 01:58, 13 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
===Request concerning KronosAlight=== | |||
== Factocop == | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Butterscotch Beluga}} 03:16, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|KronosAlight}}<p>{{ds/log|KronosAlight}}</p> | |||
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.'' | |||
===Request concerning Factocop=== | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : ] (]) 16:02, 11 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Factocop}} | |||
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | <!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | ||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] | ;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] | ||
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | |||
This all relates to ], specifically the discretionary sanctions under which ] was topic banned for 3 months on 25 September . | |||
Also, ARBCOM attached 2 conditions to his unblocking on 6 September (I haven't found on-wiki discussion leading to the unblock but will provide a link if I subsequently do). | |||
# "That Factocop is restricted to editing only from one account, and always when logged in." | |||
# "That Factocop does not use the revert tool (or any variation of it) at all - not even once, and not even to revert clear vandalism..." | |||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | ; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | ||
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. --> | <!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.--> | ||
# | |||
It is alleged that {{useranon|46.7.113.111}} is {{user|Factocop}}. If this is correct then | |||
:*Adds "depiste being an ex-Muslim" to dismiss accusations of Islamophobia ]. | |||
* All that ip's contributions in October 2012 are in violation of unblock condition 1 | |||
:*Adds ] around ‘promoted Islamophobia’ & ‘Islamophobia’ while removing the supporting context. | |||
* All that ip's contributions to the main, talk and Misplaced Pages talk namespaces violate the topic ban | |||
:*Changed "interpreted that statement as a threat and incitement to violence" to "claimed was a threat and incitement to violence, though no threats or violence in fact occurred" ] & ] | |||
* , , and are violations of unblock condition 2. | |||
# - ] | |||
:*Changes "Israeli settlers" to "Israeli soldiers" despite | |||
# - ] | |||
# - ] | |||
:* Unnecessarily specific additions that may constitute ] such as adding "against civilians" & changing "prevent the assassinations of many Israelis" to "prevent the assassinations of many Israeli civilians and soldiers" | |||
# - ] | |||
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : | |||
For background and the raising of allegations, reading the discussions at ]. ] is probably the easiest. The requested moves and this user's comments on them are tendentious and time-wasting. | |||
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.--> | |||
# Warned to abide by the one-revert rule when making edits within the scope of the Arab-Israeli conflict topic area. | |||
# Blocked from editing for 1 week for violating consensus required on the page ] | |||
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]): | |||
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) : | |||
<!-- Many arbitration remedies require a prior warning before sanctions may be imposed. Link to the warning here. --> | |||
*Previously given a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction or warned for conduct in the area of conflict on by {{admin|ScottishFinnishRadish}}. | |||
My understanding is that prior warnings are not required for the unblock conditions.<br> | |||
*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on . | |||
I am unable to find a specific notification of the standard discretionary sanctions, but as Factocop has been sanctioned under them as recently as last month he cannot fail to be aware of them. | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | ; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | ||
All edits were made at ]. After I with an explanation, I , asking for their rationale. | |||
This all hinges on whether {{useranon|46.7.113.111}} is or is not {{user|Factocop}}. At the help desk it was suggested I make a report here in the first instance rather than requesting a separate SPI.. Factocop has been proven as a sockpuppeteer in the past, see ]. The allegations are based on behavioural evidence (partly enunciated at ] e.g. (before discussion was moved). {{user|CodSaveTheQueen}}, a proven sockpuppet of Factocop, was disruptive on a previous proposal to rename the Derry article to Londonderry, see the collapsed section at ]. | |||
They replied that they were & asked if I "perhaps have a deeper bias that’s influencing decisions in this respect?" | |||
They then | |||
: ] - While I can't find any comments where they were explicitly ''"warned for casting aspersions"'', they were to ] in the topic area. | |||
:Also, apologies for my ''"diffs of edits that violate this sanction"'' section, this is the first time I've filed a request here & I thought it'd be best to explain the ''preamble'' to my revert, but I understand now that I misunderstood the purpose of that section & will remember such for the future. - ] (]) 15:37, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:@] I was able to find a copy of the opinion article being cited . ] (]) 20:14, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
I will place a link to this request at ] to alert editors there. ] (]) 16:02, 11 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | ; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | ||
* 46.7.113.111: | |||
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | <!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | ||
===Discussion concerning Factocop=== | |||
===Discussion concerning KronosAlight=== | |||
====Statement by Factocop==== | |||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | |||
====Statement by KronosAlight==== | |||
====Comments by others about the request concerning Factocop==== | |||
This is a complete waste of the Arbitration Committee’s time. | |||
Just to say I am not Factocop, and this seems to be an attempt to derail a discussion. I have checked and Factocop is listed as RETIRED. I also checked an archived report . Suggestions are that this user operates from London. I think the WHOIS function will perhaps show that I am not from London. I doubt Factocop would of moved to my location to avoid a wikipedia blocking but fair play to the lad if he has.] (]) 16:41, 11 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
1. That Yousef was born and raised a Muslim is important and neutral context for readers to be aware of when the article refers to claims of ‘Islamophobia’. | |||
* Arbcom members don't often comment at ARBE. To get a CU, I would suggest someone files at SPI. ] (]) 17:19, 11 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
* Additional behavioural evidence can be seen with his socks and as Factocop, notice the use of the underscore in editors names something which this IP did also with this ]] 17:44, 11 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
2. The scarequotes indicate that the claim comes from the sources provided, rather than being an objective ‘fact’ determined by a few Misplaced Pages Editors with an axe to grind. | |||
::I'm sorry, but without the odd underscore, a user name just looks like a spelling mistake. Soz. Wont use an underscore again mo, ainm high, I will.] (]) 21:28, 11 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
Regarding the IPs geolocating to the UK, it should be borne in mind that {{IP|109.154.199.195}} was from Northern Ireland. Travel between the two parts of the island is easier than between the two parts of the UK. Other than the novelty of the UPC address being in a different jurisdiction, the topic area, style, diction and interaction with others shouts duck. ] (]) 02:19, 12 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
*So it's easier for him to move about Northern Ireland and the Republic but he'd much rather take expensive flights to Great Britain in order to edit Misplaced Pages? I'm not buying that explaination as why would any person after being blocked from a certain IP range, shell out money on flights in order to move to another part of the country to continue disruption which they'd probably know would be reverted anyway? So I don't think that the ip is Factocop. ] (]) 06:40, 12 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
**I think moving between the island of Great Britain and Ireland just to get a different IP range is rather significantly unlikely. However, travel between the two for the purposes of work, family, recreation, etc. is very common. All of the relevant contributions from this IP have been in October this year and none show any of the hallmarks of a new user. ] (]) 10:12, 12 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
***The fact this IP just happened to appear in topics that Factocop was active in before he got blocked gives a strong hint that circumstantially at least this IP is him and he should have further sanctions placed upon him for breeching those he was already on. Also we must not forget that broadband IP locations do not always match where the user actually is and depends on the service providers exchange in use. I'm using my computer in Northern Ireland but my IP will trace many times to England. ] <sup>]</sup> 16:58, 14 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
****It is also possible to mask your IP as something different by using an appropriately located proxy server - say in this case one based in the Republic of Ireland. We also do have older most likely IP socks of Factocop from ] to compare with - and both of which geolocate to England. Also add in this IP . All share common articles and discussions of interest i.e. - Eglinton, Giant's Causeway, things to do with Londonderry etc. etc. Yet those 3 IPs locate to different parts of England. We could always add <nowiki>{{IPsock|Factocop|blocked=yes}}</nowiki> to this IP's user page? ] <sup>]</sup> 17:21, 14 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
*****The anonymous editor in question is not using an anonymising proxy. He or she ''is'' in the Republic of Ireland. The question is whether the behavioural evidence is compelling enough for us to conclude that Factocop has travelled or moved to this new location. I humbly submit that it will take rather a lot more than "the IP edits the same topic" to determine there is a connection. You need to make a more detailed submission of appropriate evidence, which ought to answer questions like: Did Factocop behave as this IP does? Do they push a similar edit or agenda? Is their writing style the same? And so on. The AE administrators may want to refer this matter to ] for investigation by a more experienced hand; socking is not really AE's area of skill (nor, apparently, that of the other commentators here). HTH, ] ]] 17:39, 14 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
3. This was already addressed on the Talk page and I updated the sentence to say settlers/soldiers with a further label that it needed further clarification because the source does not in fact unambiguously say what Butterscotch Beluga claims. | |||
===Result concerning Factocop=== | |||
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:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.'' | |||
*The IP in question geolocates to Dublin, Ireland; someone who knows where Factocop has operated out of could answer whether or not a connection is plausible/likely. ] (]) 17:04, 11 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
*The IPs in the SPI archive all came from the UK. ] (]) 22:32, 11 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
:*'''Checkuser comment:''' It is technically {{possible}} that the IP discussed in this complaint is operated by Factocop, but I could not make a more firm assertion of socking at this point. The IP should probably be blocked as an ] of somebody (though not provably of Factocop), but I do not think checkuser data supports action against Factocop unless there is additional, behavioural evidence that proves a connection. I leave the question of whether this IP unarguably ''behaves'' like Factocop to the enforcement administrators. ] ]] 11:10, 12 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
A few lines above what Butterscotch Beluga quotes is the following lines: “AMANPOUR: How did you take part in that? Were you one of the small children who threw rocks at Israeli soldiers? | |||
*This looks a lot like ] by one of the longer term sockmasters. The arguments are similar to Factocop's (but aso many others'); for me its the response here to Mo Anim that raises an eyebrow. I'm wondering if this might be the sockmaster who was egging Factocop on (and hounding Mo Anim), rather than Factocop himself: see ] and ]--] <sup>]</sup> 11:48, 14 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
YOUSEF: The model for every Palestinian child is a mujahid (ph) or a fidahi (ph) or a fighter. So, of course, I wanted to be one at that point of my life. It wasn't -- it's not my only dream. It's every child's dream in that territory.” | |||
== Africangenesis == | |||
The updated Wiki page noted both settlers/soldiers and included a note that this requires further clarification, perhaps based on other sources, because it isn’t clear (contra Butterscotch Beluga) whether he is referring to soldiers or settlers. | |||
===Request concerning Africangenesis=== | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : ] (]) 23:53, 11 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
4. It is not controversial to accurately describe Hamas as a terrorist organisation. It is simply a fact. To suggest otherwise is POV-pushing. | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Africangenesis}} | |||
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
5. This is not POVPUSH; ‘assassinations’ against civilians during peacetime are usually called ‘murders’. | |||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] | |||
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | |||
I in fact didn’t even remove the word ‘assassinations’, I merely broadened the description from ‘Israelis’ to ‘Israeli civilians and soldiers’ (as Butterscotch accepted) to indicate the breadth of the individuals in question included both civilians and combatants. This is not POVPUSH, it is simply additional information and context verified in the source itself. | |||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | |||
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. --> | |||
A number of editors have been actively disruptive in the area related to climate change. A worrying large number of personal attacks, insinuations and incivility have been directed against WMC. All this has resulted from an AfD which I opened on a non-notable climate scientist. There was a very large amount of canvassing: ] and several new editors started editing as a result of the canvassing, or became others became active after a large period of inactivity. Africangenesis turned up at the AfD and is a problematic editor: | |||
All in all, a vexatious claim and a waste of the Arbitration Committee’s time. | |||
Amongst other things, he has been edit warring to insert Leroux into List of scientists opposing the mainstream scientific assessment of global_warming: | |||
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The editor only stopped to avoid WP:3RR technicality (he actually made 4 reverts), clearly gaming the system, mentioning in the last revert that "You hit 3RR before I do." The response to a warning makes for interesting reading: also. | |||
====Statement by Sean.hoyland==== | |||
* Assorted diffs: | |||
Regarding "I was correcting factual errors introduced by previous antisemitic editors", it would be helpful if KronosAlight would explicitly identify the antisemitic editors and the edits they corrected so that they can be blocked for being antisemitic editors. ] (]) 08:17, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
The editor has been here since 2012. It is reasonable to assume that they know the rules regarding aspersions. It is reasonable to assume they are intentionally violating them, presumably because they genuinely believe they are dealing with antisemitic editors. So, this report is somehow simultaneously a vexatious complete waste of time and the result of the someone interfering with their valiant efforts to correct errors made by antisemitic editors. Why do they have this belief? , a comment they had the good sense to revert. For me, this is an example of someone attempting to use propaganda that resembles antisemitic conspiracy theories about media control to undermine Misplaced Pages's processes and then changing their mind. But the very fact that they thought of it is disturbing. Their revert suggests that they are probably aware that there are things you can say about an editor and things you cannot say about an editor. From my perspective, what we have here is part of an emerging pattern in the topic area, a growing number of attacks on Misplaced Pages and editors with accusations of antisemitism, cabals etc. stemming in part from external partisan sources/influence operations. ] (]) 17:35, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
<small>There is '''a lot''' of evidence but I am aware that ARE admins like succinct filings so I have mostly limited myself to the most recent major incident. If interested for more, read the associated comments, WilyD page comments etc by following the diffs </small> | |||
====Statement by Zero0000==== | |||
Aspersions: | |||
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* | |||
]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 10:36, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Vice regent==== | |||
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) : | |||
{{u|KronosAlight}}, you on 14 Dec 2024: "{{tq|An open letter signed by Christian and Muslim religious leaders interpreted that statement as a threat and incitement to violence}}" to "{{tq|An open letter signed by Christian and Muslim religious leaders claimed was a threat and incitement to violence, though no threats or violence in fact occurred}}". | |||
<!-- Many arbitration remedies require a prior warning before sanctions may be imposed. Link to the warning here. --> | |||
#Warned on by {{user|dave souza}} and confirmed by {{user|NuclearWarfare}} | |||
#warned on by {{user|Georgewilliamherbert}} | |||
Can you show where either of the sources state "though no threats or violence in fact occurred"? ''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 18:07, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | |||
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====Statement by Smallangryplanet==== | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
Wanted to add some pertinent evidence: | |||
* <small> Response to notification: </small> | |||
'''Talk:Zionism''': | |||
* | |||
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'''Talk:Allegations of genocide in the 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon''': | |||
===Discussion concerning Africangenesis=== | |||
* | |||
====Statement by Africangenesis==== | |||
Turkey trots to water '''What was ] doing instantly reverting an edit on a page, he had never edited before, and had never participated before on that talk page, or on the discussion or vote for the deletion of the ] page, or on any of the discussions still ongoing on other pages regarding the deletion. Repeat: What was ] doing instantly reverting an edit on a page, he had never edited before, and had never participated before on that talk page, or on the discussion or vote for the deletion of the ] page, or on any of the discussions still ongoing on other pages regarding the deletion.''' The world wonders. | |||
'''Talk:Relations between Nazi Germany and the Arab world''': | |||
*When I saw his quick revert, and he didn't post to the talk page, my investigations showed he was a totally uninvolved flyby, and I saw his snarky, self-righteous edit summary "Sneaky. Tsk, tsk.", I knew he was a bad faith editor ready for an edit war. I could have adhered to my voluntary 1RR commitment which before, since and still I have taken very seriously, but if I did, '''that would have been that'''. Now, thankfully with IRWolfie's help, the world does wonder. | |||
* | |||
*I also still strongly feel after years of editing and thinking about wikipedia culture, that the creation of new text should not count as one of the reverts. It is not too much of a burden on the community to have the deletionist have to have the support of one other community member to "win" rather than dialogue in good faith. | |||
'''Talk:2024 Lebanon electronic device attacks''': | |||
I understand that this user may have a sterling record, which of course, makes me wonder even more. I will put a link to this on ] page, since he has been mentioned, in passing. | |||
* | |||
--] (]) 00:54, 12 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
'''Talk:Anti-Zionism''': | |||
:Let me add, I think the wikipedia should wonder more about what goes on on these climate related pages.--] (]) 00:56, 12 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
*BTW, the first two edits are different, I was learning to wikilink across to the fr.wikipedia. If my lawyer was here, he would tell you that either the second edit was a significantly new text in the context of the importance of wikilinks on this page (someone is not "notable" unless he has a wikipedia page, but then he can't have a wikipedia page unless he is first notable without one). Or he would tell you that the second edit was such a small change that it was essentially a '''minor''' typo fix to the first, such that if the intervening revert hadn't screwed things up, the first two edits would have been considered just one edit.--] (]) 08:17, 12 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
===== Unclean hands defense vis'a'vis IRWolfie- ===== | |||
IRWolfie has pursued the deletion of professor ] despite the fact that he was obviously notable by WP:Academic criterion #5 due to being the head of the climate laboratory by criterion 1 due to his large number of citations. Since then his number of citations has been shown to be in the top 1% of his related fields. I wasn't involved from the beginning of the article and history isn't available, but he had been knighted by France for his service, meeting criterion 2, if that was known at the time of the deletion request that would be another sign of bad faith. Additionally there was the question of impact outside his profession because of his academic work, criterion 7. His skeptical writings on global warming were cited by the skeptical communities within France and around the world, but his articles in credible sources like newspapers were by him and not about him. Since then I have found several French newspaper articles which discuss his opinions in way which may meet criterion 7. | |||
<new paragraph> | |||
* | |||
Despite the original notability criteria, and the documentation since, IRWolfie- has been pursuing deletion and WP:BATTLE warring on the sandbox version of the ] article and on the supporting File pages, even though, the page is still in deletion review. '''Conclusion: unclean hands''' --] (]) 08:59, 12 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
* | |||
'''Talk:Gaza genocide''': | |||
The shear notability of ] is evidence of IRWolfie-'s unclean hands. Here is how notable Leroux is: | |||
* | |||
*From WP:Academic these criteria are to be applied: | |||
* | |||
'''Talk:Nuseirat rescue and massacre''': | |||
:Academics/professors meeting ''any '''one''' '' of the following conditions, as substantiated through ], are notable. Academics/professors meeting none of these conditions ''may'' still be notable if they meet the conditions of ] or other notability criteria, and the merits of an article on the academic/professor will depend largely on the extent to which it is ]. '''Before applying these criteria, see the General Notes section, which follows.''' | |||
* | |||
::1. The person's research has made significant impact in their scholarly discipline, broadly construed, as demonstrated by independent reliable sources.<br> | |||
:::'''Discussion)''' From google scholar, Leroux has 67 pubs, and 617 citations. His H-index is 9 and his I10-index is 8. ] is far above average, likely in the top 1% of his field. Climate Science wasn't specifically listed, it is a multi-disciplinary field, but for the two closest fields from this reference, the citation threshold for being in the top 1% of scientists is 337 in environment and ecology. In Geosciences it is 538. . It isn't just the number of articles and citations. I think a fair conclusion would be that he was accepted authoritatively as the world's leading expert on the climate of Northern Africa, France and the Iberian peninsula. His "The Mobile Polar High: a new concept explaining present mechanisms of meridional air-mass and energy exchanges and global propagation of palaeoclimatic changes" appears to be an enduring contribution. | |||
::5. The person holds or has held a ] appointment or "Distinguished Professor" appointment at a major institution of higher education and research (or an equivalent position in countries where named chairs are uncommon).<br> | |||
::6. The person has held a highest-level elected or appointed academic post at a major academic institution or major academic society.<br> | |||
:::'''Discussion)''' The fact that he was the director or head of a laboratory can be argued to meet both or either criteria 5 and 6. As was mentioned above, the language barrier makes this difficult for the english wikipedia, it is difficult to even get the name right. In english it would be "Laboratory of Climatology, Risk, and Environment." But in the French "du Laboratoire de Climatologie, Risques, Environnement" or "du Laboratoire de Climatologie, Risques et Environnement" and even some alternate wordings all get hits corresponding to Leroux. Jacques Comby appears to be the current head of the laboratory, or one of its professors. | |||
::7. The person has made substantial impact outside academia in their academic capacity.<br> | |||
:::'''Discussion)''' Once again the language barrier comes into play. While he has thousands of hits of blog level criteria, most of his articles in english appear to be invited commentary by him. An argument can be made that the newspaper articles that he is the author of, are notable, because they are not just letters to the editor, but invited commentary, not extended to just anyone. So once again language and cultural differences are a barrier. The French newspapers of the stature of a NY Times or Washington Post or WSJ are not as open, they are paywalled, but I have found several hits which appear to be articles about Leroux or quoting him. | |||
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:::Leroux may well be notable by the general criteria, not just the WP:Academic criteria | |||
:An objective review of the history around the AfD, and subsequent attacks on the sandbox, and referenced files, and the failure to reverse despite previous discussion of all this material, leads to the conclusion that the AfD itself was WP:BATTLE.--] (]) 13:57, 13 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
'''<big>Deceptive presentation of the evidence above as further evidence of unclean hands</big>''' Just prior to the 3RR violation discussion IRWolfie- posted '''FIVE''' links of "evidence". Which makes it appear as if the 3RR violation is open and shut. The first link is most egregious because it is more that '''TWO DAYS EARLIER''' I discuss the alleged 3RR violation next.--] (]) 05:19, 15 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
===== I did not violate 3RR ===== | |||
'''Talk:Al-Sardi school attack''': | |||
===== Response to Dominus Vobisdu ===== | |||
Dominus explains his sudden appearance at the article: | |||
* | |||
:"I've been lurking on the page in question, as I generally edit in peudoscience related areas, but rarely edit or participate in discussions because of the shockingly hostile atmosphere there." | |||
'''Talk:Eden Golan''': | |||
If he was as familiar with the goings on at the page and the hostile atmosphere as he claims, then he should also have known that I was a 1RR editor, and that there has never been a shortage of users willing to revert. He calls my edit summary deceptive while admitting that it was also true. Why did he feel compelled to revert and then to edit war after that? | |||
* | |||
If he was as familiar with the deletion and deletion review as he claims then why did he delete a technically complying blue link, for a professor / scientist that is clearly notable by 4 criteria when only one is required. Was he being a wikilawyer, instead of representing the true intent of wikipedia? Did he agree that ] was notable and as an informed person going to vote to restore the article, so he just wanted the restored entry in the page to await what he considers a "real" blue link? That is a technicality. My edits were in the spirit of wikipedia. He should have known that his reverts were totally unnecessary, and that local community is perfectly willing to revert notable scientists, in a timely matter that that their reverts had been "respected" by 1RR behavior. --] (]) 10:14, 12 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
'''Other sanctions''': | |||
This Dominus comment is totally unfair: | |||
* March 2024: for ], ], etc | |||
"As far as I was concerned, that was the end to the matter." | |||
* June 2024: to abide by 1RR | |||
* October 2024: for a week | |||
====Statement by (username)==== | |||
because as far as I was concerned, it was the end of the matter too. You failed to note that it was not the end of the matter for others, who seized upon it as an opportunity. My descriptions of your behavior have been confirmed by your own admissions and by my independent research. They were not a personal attack on you, and as you noted, they were not directed at you. Frankly, you defense of your behavior doesn't hold water. --] (]) 11:56, 12 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. --> | |||
=== |
===Result concerning KronosAlight=== | ||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
:I had completely forgotten the previous arbcom warning. Although I wonder that I didn't use the "unclean hands" defense at that one, since Tony Sidaway had brought it. He claimed he had stepped back for a bit. But his bias remains clear since his is operating the climate change news feed at google+ Where is Tony Sidaway, BTW, has he been banned or something? | |||
* Much of the "diffs of edits that violate this sanction" fail to explain "how these edits violate" the sanction - to me, much of these diffs look like a content dispute. However, the "additional comments" section DOES have a diff that is concerning and violates the CT by casting an aspersion that is not backed up by a diff - the "antisemitic editors" diff. Has KA been previously warned for casting aspersions? If they have, I'm inclined to issue a topic ban, but many other editors get a warning for this if they lack a previous warning. The diffs brought up by Zero (not all of which I necessarily see as aspersions, but the "Jew-hatred" one is definitely over the line - but it's from September so a bit late to sanction for just that) - did anyone point out that aspersions/incivility in this topic area is sanctionable? I see the warnings for 1RR and consensus required... ] (]) 13:30, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
** {{ping|KronosAlight}} - can you address the fact that saying "correcting factual errors introduced by previous antisemitic editors" and "Is there no limits you will not cross in order to seek to justify your Jew-hatred"? Neither of these are statements that should ever be made - and the fact that you seem to not to understand this is making me lean towards a topic ban. ] (]) 14:45, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*KronosAlight, can you please provide quotes from the references you cited for - for instance - "for his terrorist activities" in , showing that the sources explicitly supported the content you added? Calling a person or an organization is perfectly acceptable if you support that with reliable sources; if it is original research, or source misrepresentation, it isn't acceptable. I cannot access some of the sources in question. You may provide quotes inside a collapsed section if you wish to save space. ] (]) 19:28, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:I missed Zero's comments earlier. A lot of those comments, while concerning, are generic, not directed at a specific editor. , however, is beyond the pale. I would need some convincing that this user is able to edit this area constructively. ] (]) 20:56, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*::@], can you please respond to this? I too am concerned...the quote you're objecting to wasn't from DrSmarty. It was a ''direct quote'', scare quotes and all, from the US Holocaust Memorial Museum. You seem to have reacted to it as if it were DrSmarty. ] (]) 16:06, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I don't like to sanction ''in absentia'', and I'm not yet suggesting we do so, but I want to note that not choosing not to respond here, or going inactive to avoid responding, will not improve the outcome as far as I am concerned. ] (]) 17:20, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:They're a pretty sporadic editor...many edits over a period of a few days, then nothing for two weeks. Maybe we pin this until they edit again? ] (]) 17:26, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*::I agree with Valereee that this editors contribution history shows a pattern of editing for a day or two at a time followed by several weeks of inactivity. So I don't think it's fair to say they went inactive here but also holding this open for multiple weeks waiting for a response places some burden on the other other interested editors. ] (]) 17:33, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
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==Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Nicoljaus== | |||
:WilyD, you haven't been exactly neutral on this. You judgement at closure has been called into question. The Knighthood and the lab head position were not in question. Since then your comment about how scientists might have been slow to come around, shows your bias. You comment arguing against my demonstration that Marcel Leroux's citations put him in the top 1% of his relate fields, by noting that it isn't just professors that are in the field, shows that you are trying parse all the evidence in the most negative way possible. None of this would be happening if you had simply corrected your earlier closing decision.--] (]) 10:52, 12 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
<small>''Procedural notes: Per the ], a "clear and substantial consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.''</small> | |||
<small>''To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections{{space}}but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see ]).''</small> | |||
'''Correction: WilyD you are mistaken, the warning was two years ago.'''--] (]) 10:56, 12 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
:Correction to my Correction, it appears to have been Dominus who was mistaken about the date, unless a WileyD comment was edited underneath me.--] (]) 12:00, 12 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
; Appealing user : {{userlinks|Nicoljaus}} – ] (]) 13:09, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
; Sanction being appealed : To enforce an ], and for edit warring, and , you have been ''']''' '''indefinitely''' from editing Misplaced Pages. | |||
===== Response to D'sousa ===== | |||
Note that the reference to crew was not to current editors, but to the past, I'm entitled to my recollection. Having been a witness to collaboration on the back channel chat forum. However, I did apologize to WMC for suggesting that he had been involved in calling scientists deniers. Since then I recall something going on with regard to the Category hierarchy. Climate skepticism was being put under Category:Denialism. Shortly after that Jimmy Wales had to get involved in cleaning up some biographies. I should note that WMC was engaging in WP:BATTLE behavior as well, with his participation in the unjustified ] deletion, and going even further to suggest to WilyD that "salting" of the ongoing efforts on it should be considered. I don't know what "salting" is but it sounds bad. It seems that if multple people who are not a crew engage in WP:BATTLE behavior with one editor, it is that editor that is at risk.--] (]) 11:42, 12 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
; Administrator imposing the sanction : {{admin|ScottishFinnishRadish}} | |||
===== Response to ] ===== | |||
; Notification of that administrator : I'm aware. ] (]) 13:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
Many editors disaffected by the culture still contribute, while you may consider me a climate change warrier, that is a biased view imposed by the requirement to be logged in to edit those semi-protected articles. Here is a partial record of other anonymous contributions. My broadband provider changes the IP address occasionally, here are some anonymous contributions. . These contributions and others from past IPs and by other disaffected editors are despite the cognitive disssonance imposed by contributing to the credibility of an organization which tolerates the WP:OWN collective behavior on the climate articles. | |||
===Statement by Nicoljaus=== | |||
You mention battleground behavior, but can you honestly say that a relentless attempt to delete a notable scientist, the sandbox of his article, the file documenting his award, etc. and attack all attempts to defend him while refusing to concede any of the points established by better than usual evidence, while technically avoiding "violations" is editing in good faith and not battleground behavior? Look a little deeper please. | |||
The circumstances of my blocking were: | |||
regards, --] (]) 11:57, 13 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
*I was looking for a Misplaced Pages account for ] to add it to Wikidata. I couldn't find it, so I did a little research. The in the article indicated that she participated in some '''WikiWrites'''(?) project. I didn’t find such a project, but I found the '''WikiRights''' project: https://ar.wikipedia.org/ويكيبيديا:ويكي_رايتس. It was organized by a certain Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor. I read the ] article and didn't see any outside perspective, "controversy" or anything like that, just self-representation. I surfed the Internet and instantly found information that must be in the article to comply with the NPOV. I started adding {{diff2|1220241573}}, everything went well for two days. Then: | |||
*12:53, 23 April 2024 - Zero0000 made a complete cancellation of all additions {{diff2|1220380219}}</br> | |||
*13:14, 23 April 2024 - (20 minutes later!) Selfstudier wrote on my TP {{diff2|1220382377}}</br> | |||
*14:20 - 14:22, 23 April 2024 - With two edits ({{diff2|1220390536|first}}, {{diff2|1220390820|second}}) I partially took into account the comment of Zero0000 about "ethnic marking", but returned the last {{Diff||1220390820|1220380219}}.</br> | |||
*14:27, 23 April 2024 (7 minutes later!!) Selfstudier makes a second complete cancellation of all my edits, blaming POV editing {{diff2|1220391708}}</br> | |||
*14:45, 23 April 2024 - I’m returning the version where I partially took into account Zero0000’s comments (removed "ethnic marking"){{diff2|1220394447}}</br> | |||
*15:10, 23 April 2024 - Selfstudier accuses me of 1RR breach. In the dialogue, I explained that the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination. My first undo was part of a counter edit ]</br> | |||
*15:41, 23 April 2024 Selfstudier writes on Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement {{diff2|1220403117}}</br> | |||
*16:10, 23 April 2024 (30 minutes later!) ScottishFinnishRadish issues an indefinite block {{diff2|1220407252}}. No opportunity to write my “statement”, as well as an extremely bad faith interpretation of my remark as "an intent to game 1rr".</br> | |||
Given that the both Selfstudier and Zero0000 are currently being discussed in Arbcom (https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_5/Evidence), I humbly ask you to take a fresh look at my indefinite block and soften the restrictions in some way". ] (]) 19:32, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:{{yo|ScottishFinnishRadish}} - You {{diff2|1263932187||mean}}, I need to discuss my previous edit war blocks? Well, the last one was almost four years ago and that time I simply forgot that I was under 1RR (there was a big break in editing) and tried to get sources for a newly added map, and the opponent refused to do so {{diff2|983337359}}. As it turned out later, the true source was a book by a fringe author, which the RSN called "Usual nationalistic bullshit, no sign of reliability". Yes, it was a stupid forgetfulness on my part. ] (]) 16:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:{{yo|Aquillion}} {{tq| Even if you were correct that Selfstudier & Zero0000 were WP:TAGTEAMing (always a tricky accusation, because it's hard to separate that from just your edits being so obviously problematic that two people independently reverted them)}} -- That's why I wrote that my "so problematic edits" attracted attention only after two days, but two users appeared within 20 minutes. However, after months, a lot of data about the cooperation of these users appeared (and this is not my imagination): "While a single editor, Shane (a newbie), advocated for its inclusion, a trio of veterans including Zero0000, Nishidani and Selfstudier fought back. After Selfstudier accused Shane of being a troll for arguing for the photo’s inclusion, Zero0000, days later, “objected” to its inclusion, citing issues of provenance. Nishidani stepped in to back up Zero0000, prompting a response by Shane. The following day, Zero0000 pushed back against Shane, who responded. The day after, Nishidani returned with his own pushback. The tag-team effort proved too much for Shane, who simply gave up, and the effort succeeded: the photo remains absent" . I'll add that after Selfstudier accused Shane of trolling, Zero0000 appeared on Shane's page and said: "Kindly keep your insults to yourself I won't hesitate to propose you for blocking if you keep it up" {{diff2|1017316378}}. According to the table at the link , these two users cooperated like this 720 times. Probably hundreds of people were embittered, forced out of the project, or led to blocking like me.--] (]) 13:02, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:{{ping|ScottishFinnishRadish}} Hello, thank you very much for transferring my remarks, now I understand how it works. I would like to clarify the issue of meatpuppetry. You directly accused me of such intentions in justifying the block, and now this accusation has been repeated {{diff2|1264013557}}. Let's figure out whether that Selfstudier and Zero0000 are working too closely was so absurd? Was it really and remains so absurd that it could not be perceived as anything other than my self-exposure? I don't think so.</br> | |||
As for the "edit war" - I understand that edit wars are evil. In the spirit of cooperation, I tried to meet my opponents halfway, as in this case, taking into account their claim, which I could understand, in the counter edit. If such an action is also considered an edit war and a violation of the 1RR/3RR rule - I will of course avoid it in the future.--] (]) 16:00, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
@Valereee: Hello, I understand your point that edit wars can be disruptive, particularly in a CTOP context. However, I believe it is essential to recognize that not all reverts carry the same implications. While it is true that a revert is a revert, the context and intent behind the action should also be taken into account. In this instance, I made efforts to address the concerns of the other party involved, which reflects a willingness to engage in dialogue rather than simply reverting. | |||
In addition to the anonymous edit contributions I claim above, my use of my login has not been strictly climate related, those edits dominate because you have to war to get changes in those articles, even as the community eventually agrees it is often only grudging. Many of my climate contributions still exist on those pages, hard won agreement, but wikipedia is better for it. Here is a list of my other article editing that I bothered to login for: | |||
Furthermore, I acknowledge your reference to the 1RR/3RR rule and my history of blocks for edit-warring. However, given the amount of time that has passed, I believe I have gained valuable insights and learned a great deal. Moreover, given this topic, I think I actually learned something unlike the other side, whose history of blocks for edit-warring remains clean.--Nicoljaus (talk) 4:24 am, Today (UTC−5) | |||
{{re|Valereee}} In response to {{diff2|1264999031||this}}, I can say that I already know very well how carelessly admins impose blocks. If any further statements are needed from me, just ping me. With best regards.--] (]) 09:51, 25 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
===Statement by ScottishFinnishRadish=== | |||
Chaos theory | |||
Absent from the appeal is discussion of the five prior edit warring blocks and any indication that they will not resume edit warring. ] (]) 13:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
Che Guevara | |||
:I said {{tq|They have a long history of edit warring, so I'd like to see that addressed rather than blaming others}} above, twelve days ago. ] (]) 16:30, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
Conscription in Germany | |||
:{{u|Nicoljaus}}, you should be focusing on convincing people that you won't edit war in the future rather than more ]. ] (]) 13:11, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
Counterpoint | |||
===Statement by (involved editor 1)=== | |||
Denialism | |||
Enumerative induction | |||
Ericsson cycle | |||
Evolution | |||
Fallacy | |||
False dilemma | |||
File talk:John Quiggin enumerative induction.png | |||
Fluid ounce | |||
Health effects of tea | |||
Intelligent design | |||
Kaempferol | |||
Low-energy vehicle | |||
MDMA | |||
Melatonin | |||
Near-Earth object | |||
New Zealand | |||
Novel | |||
Ozone depletion | |||
Plug-in hybrid | |||
Postmodernity | |||
Russell Humphreys | |||
Sodium benzoate | |||
Solar variation | |||
Specified complexity | |||
Tea --] (]) 14:33, 14 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
===Statement by (involved editor 2)=== | |||
===== Response to ] ===== | |||
"any reason"? Would you care to defend that hyperbolic battleground language? Are you one of those who can read all the discussion of ] and still say with a straight face that you don't see "any reason" he is notable? If so you are aspiring to IRWolfie's heights of intellectual honesty. | |||
===Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Nicoljaus === | |||
Do you really think the admin culture at wikipedia will be impressed with your rhetoric. Are you capable of giving a fair hearing? If you really can't think of a reason, you shouldn't be trusted with admin privileges should you?--] (]) 12:14, 13 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. <br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | |||
====Statement by Simonm223==== | |||
* You are a nice guy.--] (]) 02:17, 14 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
looks like a bright-line ] violation via ] and ] - and removing BLP violations are generally somewhere where there is some latitude on ] which makes the actions of Zero0000 and Selfstudier more justified, not less. ] (]) 13:50, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Aquillion==== | |||
===== Response to ] ===== | |||
A snarky mention of WP:TRUTH? No encyclopedia should aspire to be post-modern. --] (]) 12:28, 13 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
{{tq|Selfstudier accuses me of 1RR breach. In the dialogue, I explained that the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination. My first undo was part of a counter edit}} - I feel like this is obvious enough that I probably don't have to point it out, but "counter edit" is not a ] / ] exception. Even if you were correct that Selfstudier & Zero0000 were ]ing (always a tricky accusation, because it's hard to separate that from just your edits being so obviously problematic that two people independently reverted them), it ''still'' would not justify your revert. The fact that they're parties to an ArbCom case (which hasn't even yet found any fault with them!) doesn't change any of this. You should probably read ]. --] (]) 14:15, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Comment by ]==== | |||
====Statement by Sean.hoyland==== | |||
There are two problems here to be addressed: making a deceptive edit summaries, and a long, long history of gross incivility that resulted in an ArbCom warning <s>one year</s> '''two years''' ago, and has continued to this day, despite mulitiple warnings. | |||
"the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination"...yet another conspiracy-minded evidence-free accusation against editors in the PIA topic area, the third one at AE in just a few days. ] (]) 14:59, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by (uninvolved editor 1)==== | |||
I've been lurking on the page in question, as I generally edit in peudoscience related areas, but rarely edit or participate in discussions because of the shockingly hostile atmosphere there. | |||
===Result of the appeal by Nicoljaus=== | |||
However, there is a certain consensus among the various parties there that any scientists added to the list have their own WP articles (no red links). | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
*I do not see any indication that Nicoljaus actually realizes the problem. The edit warring blocks were indeed some time ago, but one might think they would remember it after being blocked for it repeatedly, not to mention that being issued a CTOP notice might call a CTOP restriction to mind. And the remark in question sure looks to me like a threat to game 1RR via ], too. Given all that, I would decline this appeal. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 23:10, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
* I see nothing in this appeal that makes me think they've taken on board the changes that they'd need to do to be a productive editor. It reads to me like "my block was bad, here's why", and that's not working as a reason for me to support unblocking. ] (]) 23:21, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
* Nicoljaus, what we need to see is you demonstrating you understand edit-warring at a CTOP, which is what you were blocked for, and convincing us you won't do it again. Arguing the block should be lifted because other editors did something you thought looked suspicious isn't going to convince us. <small>Just FWIW, Nicoljaus, the source doesn't actually say {{xt|these two users cooperated like this 720 times}}. It says they edited the same articles 720 times, and that's not unusual. Most editors see the same other editors over and over again in articles about their primary interest. And edit by editor 1>2 days>revert by editor 2>revert by editor 1>20 minutes>revert by editor 3 is also not at all unusual anywhere on the encyclopedia and isn't evidence of tag-teaming. People read their watch lists. Any editor with that article on their watchlist, which is nearly fifty editors, might have investigated the large revert of an edit by an experienced editor at a contentious topic.</small> ] (]) 15:18, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:@], it's not that edit wars are evil. It's that they're disruptive, and particularly in a CTOP we really really don't need additional disruption and drama. A revert is a revert, even if you {{xt|tried to meet my opponents halfway, as in this case, taking into account their claim, which I could understand, in the counter edit}}. Re: {{xt|If such an action is also considered an edit war and a violation of the 1RR/3RR rule}}: a revert is a revert and is covered in the policy around reversions. And you have a history of blocks for edit-warring, including at other CTOPs. | |||
*:It's been seven months since the block. I'm trying to come around to a way to at least allow this editor a ''chance'' to show us they've taken this stuff on board...maybe a 0RR at all CTOPs? ] (]) 17:44, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*::@], re {{xt|I believe it is essential to recognize that not all reverts carry the same implications. While it is true that a revert is a revert, the context and intent behind the action should also be taken into account. In this instance, I made efforts to address the concerns of the other party involved, which reflects a willingness to engage in dialogue rather than simply reverting}}. Some editors at talk pages will take your apparent intentions into account. Some will just take you to ANEW. Some admins at ANEW will take your apparent intentions into account. Some will just reblock you. | |||
*::''No one anywhere is promising that your intentions will be taken into account'' -- or even that they'll try to figure out what your intentions are -- and therefore it's ''completely your responsibility'' to read the situation you're in correctly. If you read it wrong, you're likely to be blocked again, and honestly another block for edit-warring at a CTOP is likely to be another indef, and it would absolutely not surprise me for the blocking admin to require 12 months to appeal. ] (]) 15:25, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:::No need to reply, but I'll tell you plainly I've been trying to give you opportunities to convince other admins here, and you keep wanting to dig the hole deeper. I'd support an unblock with an editing restriction of 0RR at any article with a CTOPs designation on the talk page. ] (]) 13:13, 25 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
<!-- When closing this request (once there is a consensus) use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} if at AE, or an archive/discussion box template if on AN, inform the user on their talk page and note it in the contentious topics log below where their sanctions is logged. --> | |||
==PerspicazHistorian== | |||
I noticed that Africangenesis had readded a section on a scientist, ], whose article had recently failed AfD, and was going through DRV. | |||
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> | |||
===Request concerning PerspicazHistorian=== | |||
In his edit summary, he said that he was readding the material on this scientist as a "blue link", which I found odd. When I checked his addition, I was surprised to see that the link in question was indeed blue, as he said. Clicking on it, though, I discovered that he had linked not to the (deleted) article on English WP, but to the article on '''French''' wikipedia. | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|NXcrypto}} 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|PerspicazHistorian}}<p>{{ds/log|PerspicazHistorian}}</p> | |||
I reverted, of course, and he reverted back. This went on until I hit 3r, at which point he accused me of "not editing in good faith" and taunted "You hit 3RR before I do". His fourth revert was quickly overturned by another editor. | |||
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
As far as I was concerned, that was the end to the matter. But not for Africangenesis. He proceded to make accusations of vandalism and bad faith against me, not directly to me, but to several other editors and administrators. I was called a "flyby" ], a "a vandal or someone recruited from a chat room comes in who isn't acting in good faith " that "shouldn't be allowed to get away with playing games" ], a "vandal" who "should have to explain what he was doing there, did he hear about it on the chat room or what" ], a "deletionist" ], and an "interloper" who "loves to delete" ], who he wonders has been a net contributer to wikipedia ]. This continues with his statement in this case above, where he questions my right to edit the page at all. | |||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] | |||
This not the the first time Africangenesis has violated ] and ]. He has been warned abundantly, even by arbcom itself ]. In fact, one of the threads on which he bad-mouthed me was a thread started to warn him about multiple civility violations ]. | |||
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | |||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | |||
Since being warned a year ago by Arbcom, Africangenesis has persited in uncivil and battleground behavior, and shows no willingness or ability to change. I recommend a (long-overdue) indefinite block. ] (]) 09:32, 12 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.--> | |||
# - removed "discrimination" sidebar from the page of ] (fascist ideology) even though the sidebar was inserted inside a section, not even the lead. | |||
# - tag bombed the highly vetted ] article without any discussion or reason | |||
# - attributing castes to people withhout any sources | |||
# - edit warring to impose the above edits after getting | |||
# - just like above, but this time he also added unreliable sources | |||
# - still edit warring and using edit summaries instead of talk page for conversation | |||
# - filed an outrageous report on WP:ANI without notifying any editors. This report was closed by Bbb23 as "{{tq|This is nothing but a malplaced, frivolous personal attack by the OP.}}" | |||
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : | |||
====Comment by ]==== | |||
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.--> | |||
*Having previously edited the ], I noticed Africangenesis referring on the article's talk page to his "memory of an earlier time, when WMC and crew were fighting to put scientists on a list like this", so I joined the thread to remind Africangenesis that ] "means you shouldn't be dismissing other editors as "crew". Please cease and desist." Far from desisting, Africangenesis escalated attacks, so I advised Africangenesis on their talk page that this was clear contravention of ] and displayed ] behaviour, particularly unacceptable on a climate change topic after having already been notified of ] sanctions. When Africangenesis responded aggressively, I advised NuclearWarfare, who then warned Africangenesis about attacking other editors in this manner. That was on 9 October 2012, but Africangenesis did not improve behaviour. A similar pattern showed in the Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement discussion which led to Africangenesis being formally notified of ARBCC sanctions on 21 October 2010, with a warning that ongoing disruptive editing may result in blocks, topic bans, or other editing restrictions.. . . ], ] 11:20, 12 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
*Already 2 blocks in last 4 months for edit warring. | |||
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]): | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | |||
<!-- Add any further comment here --> | |||
I do not see any positive signs that this editor will ever improve. So far he has only regressed. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Comment by mostly uninvolved ]==== | |||
While I agree that Africangenesis' actions have been disruptive, his point about ] being improperly deleted is valid. I disagree with the academic notability standards, but Leroux clearly passes them in several ways. Africangenesis' response to the deletion has been extreme, but I can understand his frustration when faced with an unjust situation. To focus solely on his behavior and ignore the apparent POV pushing tactics being used would only increase the injustice. ] (]) 14:15, 12 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
:While going through this report, PerspicazHistorian has made another highly problematic edit by edit warring and misrepresenting the sources to label the organisation as "terrorist". This primary source only provides a list of organisations termed by the Indian government as "terrorist" contrary to ]. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 03:12, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Comments by others about the request concerning Africangenesis==== | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
* I notice a strong dose of ] and some heavy-handed Wikilawyering in Africangenesis' replies. I've tried to explain ] (admittedly with somewhat less patience than I usually manage to employ) at his (or her?) ], but with, as far as I can tell, limited success. --] (]) 09:22, 12 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request (you may use {{subst:AE-notice|thread name}}), and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. --> | |||
* Africangenesis is an old user who's already been warned about their conduct in an Arbitration? Huh - I had kinda assumed from things like voting "maintain" at AfD, and various other signs, that they were inexperienced and plausibly redeemable - a lot of grandstanding that leaked into personal attacks, but not so bad that perhaps it couldn't be fixed with a bit of nudging. I had hoped that a bit of discussion on CIVILity might sink in before they dug themselves too deep into their hole. Wikilawyering and combative, yes (maybe more combative than incivil, though that's six of one, a half dozen of the other). I might've even spoken in their defence, but given the old ArbCom warning, I think I'll pass. Hopefully they'll realise that nobody will have infinite patience (if it isn't too late already). ]<font color="FF8800">]</font> 10:08, 12 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
* It looks like a topic ban is called for here. Too much ] basically. Perhaps 3-6 months, unless he has been sanctioned before. ] (]) 13:01, 12 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
::He's been disruptive for over 2 years and has received official sanctions warnings twice. I don't think a 6 month ban would make much sense, because evidently Ag would have no issue waiting it out. ] (]) 13:03, 12 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
===Discussion concerning PerspicazHistorian === | |||
@Gigs, Why Leroux doesn't meet PROF has already been discussed countless times. Also see the DRV where the decision is being endorsed. ] (]) 19:18, 12 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | |||
:My experience with the application of WP:PROF has seen articles kept for much more obscure academics. Full professorship and h-indexes lower than Leroux are a guaranteed keep. I think that's wrong and we shouldn't do it that way, but that's the normal practice. | |||
====Statement by PerspicazHistorian ==== | |||
:The DRV is only evidence that the administrator acted reasonably, it doesn't really review whether the participating editors correctly applied prevailing notability standards. That's why I did not vote to overturn in the DRV, I think WilyD came to a reasonable conclusion since administrators often do not question the interpretation of notability standards by the voting editors, unless it's blatantly incorrect. ] (]) 19:51, 12 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
By far I am also concerned how my edits were forcefully reverted without a proper reason despite providing enough references. Please check how I am getting attacked by them on ] Page. | |||
I didn't know about the three-revert-rule before ] told me about this: ]. | |||
Please grant me one more chance, I will make sure not to edit war.<br> | |||
In the below statement by LukeEmily, As a reply I just want to say that I was just making obvious edit on ] by adding a list of notable people with proper references. And according to ] it is clearly said: "Edits from a slanted point of view, general insertion or removal of material, or other good-faith changes are not considered vandalism." It was a good faith edit but others reverted it. I accept my mistake of not raising it on talk page as a part of ].<br> | |||
As a clarification to my edit on ], it can be clearly seen that I provided enough reference to prove its a terrorist organisation as seen in this . I don't know why is there a discussion to this obvious edit? Admins please correct me if I am wrong. | |||
:@], Yes I read about 1RR and 0RR revert rules in ]. I now understand the importance of raising the topic on talk page whenever a consensus is needed. Thank You ! ] (]) 07:16, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
::Yes, I will commit to that. ] (]) 13:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC) <small>Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 13:19, 20 December 2024 (UTC) </small> | |||
:At that time I was new to how AFD discussions worked. Later on when ] was marked for deletion, I respected the consensus by not interfering in it. The article was later deleted. ] (]) 11:54, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
::Hi @] , I just checked your user page. You have 16 years (I am 19) of experience on wiki, you must be right about me. I agree that my start on Misplaced Pages has been horrible, but I am learning a lot from you all. I promise that I will do better, get more neutral here and contribute to the platform to my best. Please don't block me. | |||
::''<small>P.S.- I don't know If I will be blocked or what , according to this enforcement rules, I just want to personally wish good luck to you for your ongoing cancer treatments, You will surely win this battle of Life. Regards.</small>'' ] (]) 12:23, 21 December 2024 (UTC)<small>Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section.] (]) 15:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)</small> | |||
====Statement by LukeEmily==== | |||
*My feeling is that one side of the debate tries to shut down the other. Africangenesis engaged in battleground conduct against a number of editors engaged in ] on Leroux. This should be considered a mitigating circumstance.- ] (]) 01:43, 13 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
PerspicazHistorian also violated ] by engaging in an edit war with {{u|Ratnahastin}} who reverted his edits and restored an article to a stable version by admin. Also, I want to assume good faith but it is surprising that PerspicazHistorian claims that he did not know the three revert rule given that he has more than 800 edits.] (]) | |||
====Statement by Doug Weller==== | |||
::How can people be engaged in civil POV pushing on Leroux? The article was deleted. The list criteria of ] is quite clear and quite uncontroversial by requiring that scientists be notable; it's not POV pushing to not include Leroux. ] (]) 10:56, 13 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
I'm involved so just commenting. I don't think this editor is competent. I had to give them a community sanction caste warning as they were making a mess of castes. See this earlier version of their talk page.]https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:PerspicazHistorian&oldid=1262289249] and ]'s comment that "It was very unwise of you to keep moving ] to article space when it has not passed review. As a direct result of your actions, a deletion discussion is taking place, and when this is complete and the article is deleted, you will be prevented from recreating it. ] (]) 14:44, 4 December 2024 (UTC)" There have also been copyright issues. I strongly support a topic ban. ] ] 11:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::I won't be involved in the decision. No more treatments for me, just coast until... ] ] 12:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
===Result concerning Africangenesis=== | |||
<!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.--> | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.'' | |||
*I'm trying, and failing, to see any reason why I shouldn't just indef block. Perhaps someone can persuade me? ] (]) 18:57, 12 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
*:@Africangenesis; your accusing me of hyperbolic comments in your response to me leaves me with the inpression there wasn't much introspection on your part prior to posting. Questioning the competence of admins is a very good way to ensure accusations of a battleground mentality are bolstered. ] (]) 01:54, 14 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
*It is clear that Africangenesis has a ] approach to Climate Change. He had some previous trouble with it back in 2010, when took place. For people who can't edit neutrally in a specific domain, topic bans can be considered. Since Africangenesis' record on admin boards about CC goes back two years, and his very first Misplaced Pages edits in 2007 were in the area of global warming, my thought is for an indefinite topic ban from the area of Climate Change. The ban could be appealed in six months if there is evidence of productive editing in other areas. If Africangenesis truly has no other interests than CC then this action would have the same effect as an indef block. ] (]) 04:01, 13 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
*:Makes sense to me. ] (]) 05:05, 13 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
*Concur with EdJohnston. ] ] 12:35, 13 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
*Also agree with Ed. ] (]) 13:06, 14 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
===Result concerning PerspicazHistorian === | |||
==Paul Magnussen, Sirswindon, and InigmaMan== | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.'' | |||
{{u|PerspicazHistorian}}, can you explain your understanding of ] and the ] rule? I'd like you to read thoroughly enough to also explain wny someone may be edit warring ''even if they aren't breaking 3RR''. ] (]) 21:58, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
===Request concerning Paul Magnussen, Sirswindon, and InigmaMan=== | |||
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. --> | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : ] (]) 09:42, 14 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
:@], that explanation of edit warring is a bit wanting. An edit war is when two or more editors revert content additions/removals repeatedly. Even a second reversion by the same editor can be considered edit warring. Best practice -- and what I highly recommend, especially for any inexperienced editor -- is ''the first time'' someone reverts an edit of yours, go to the talk page, open a section, ping the editor who reverted you, and discuss. Do you think you can commit to that? | |||
:<small>Re: your question on why your "obvious edit" was reverted: we don't deal with content issues here, only with behavior issues, but from a very quick look, the source is 50 years old, and using a list headed "TERRORIST ORGANISATIONS LISTED IN THE FIRST SCHEDULE OF THE UNLAWFUL ACTIVITIES (PREVENTION) ACT, 1967" that includes a certain organization as a source that the organization should be described as a terrorist organization is ]; in their ] NXcrypto provided an edit summary of "Not a reliable source for such a contentious label. See WP:LABEL." Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here.</small> ] (]) 11:28, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
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==Walter Tau== | |||
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> | |||
===Request concerning Walter Tau=== | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Bobby Cohn}} 20:51, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Walter Tau}}<p>{{ds/log|Walter Tau}}</p> | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
* {{userlinks|Paul Magnussen}} | |||
* {{userlinks|Sirswindon}} | |||
* {{userlinks|InigmaMan}} | |||
I'm filing this as a single request because there is little difference in their behavior and position. In some cases, one editor deletes content and another from this group then presents long argumentation in support of deletion on the ]. | |||
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | <!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | ||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] |
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] | ||
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | <!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | ||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | ; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | ||
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# Creation (and subsequent editing and AfC submission) of ]. See it's page history, there's no need to supply the entirety of the diffs here. | |||
#* For context on how this subject falls under the purview, see the context given by the news article as shared on the talk page: Russia using adoption of Ukranian children during the Russo-Ukranian war.<ref>{{cite news |last1=Bruce |first1=Camdyn |title=Ukrainian official rips Russia for 'kidnapping' more than 13,000 children |url=https://thehill.com/policy/international/3775681-ukrainian-official-rips-russia-for-kidnapping-more-than-13000-children/ |work=The Hill |date=14 December 2022}}</ref> Then note how this state program directly discusses adoption support, which was adapted by Putin following the start of the war. A citation given in the draft article.<ref>{{cite news |title=Путин подписал закон, уточняющий условия выплаты материнского капитала |url=https://www.interfax.ru/russia/937864 |work=interfax.ru|trans-title=Putin signs law clarifying conditions for payment of maternity capital}}</ref> The version specifically notes the changes "At the same time, residents of the '''''new regions''''' will receive maternity capital '''''regardless of the basis and timing of their acquisition of Russian citizenship'''''" (emphasis mine). | |||
#:This draft, as it is written, is extremely promotional in areas and could basically be hosted on a state-sponsored website. Given the context, I believe this falls under the topic ban. | |||
{{reflist-talk}} | |||
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : | |||
The case comes down to removal of material cited from secondary, academic sources, followed by long diatribes posted on the talk page which seldom address any particular content, except in their arbitrary conclusion(s). I invite admin to read the whole talk page, but here are some examples: | |||
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.--> | |||
# Notice given by {{admin|Rosguill}} that they were now subject to an arbitration enforcement sanction | |||
# Blocked by {{admin|Swatjester}} for violating the sanction based on the edits to a project page. | |||
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]): | |||
]: | |||
<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. --> | |||
# block-delete with edit summary "Removing unreferenced POV material" (which was not unreferenced) supported by the following line of argumentation: | |||
*Has been made aware, see the diffs in the above section. | |||
# | |||
*Alerted about contentious topics as it applies to this specific draft, on by {{admin|Asilvering}}, given a warning about this specific draft and how it falls under the above purview. | |||
# | |||
# | |||
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# | |||
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# | |||
# Another removal of content, presumably explained by: | |||
# . Apparently, the argument is that although Eysenck has written several books about the genetics-intelligence link, we can't exemplify or discuss their content in his biography, even when secondary sources do that. Go figure. This long post also appears to be written with the intent to support the deletion of material performed by Sirswindon in diff #8 below. | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | |||
]: | |||
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# Deletion of material based on secondary sources as "hearsay" | |||
It has been repeatedly pointed out to Walter Tau that they are skirting the line of the their topic ban by specifically not mentioning the "elephant in the room", see the diff by Asilvering above. They have also repeatedly chosen to ignore advice that they stop editing in the subject area and have repeatedly claimed to fail to see how their editing is problematic. As such, I have opened this discussion here so as to get an answer for Walter Tau on their editing, see They claim to continuously be unaware of the ban, see also their talk page discussions. | |||
# repeat | |||
# claims the ref fails WP:V Text in (German) is "In der April-Ausgabe der rechtsextremen Nationalzeitung von 1990 schreibt Eysenck einen Artikel, in dem er Sigmund Freud der Verschlagenheit und mangelnder Aufrichtigkeit zeiht, wobei zugleich auf Freuds jüdische Herkunft verwiesen wird." | |||
# Pure denialism or more sophistry? You decide. Perhaps the author-publisher relationship is not a relationship. | |||
# ] to Misplaced Pages definition of right-wing, just like the SPA InigmaMan (see its own section below). | |||
# False dichotomy: "All or None". | |||
# Advances his own prophecy. | |||
# Deletes content claiming it's not in the source. ]. Offered chance to self-revert there too. Not taken insofar. | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
] (a ]): | |||
Notified . | |||
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
# "Eysenck did not publish articles, the newspaper published them" | |||
# Red herring. The article at the time did no say Eysenck was Far-right. It said "He wrote the preface to the book "Das unvergängliche Erbe" by Pierre Krebs, a far-right French writer, which was published by Krebs' Thule-Seminar." | |||
# Quotes the Misplaced Pages article on ] as an ] argument to disprove what the sources said. | |||
# Continues the same argument. | |||
===Discussion concerning Walter Tau=== | |||
-- ] (]) 09:42, 14 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | |||
====Statement by Walter Tau==== | |||
And Sirswindon continues: | |||
I feel, that the decision by ] regarding my draft https://en.wikipedia.org/Draft:Maternity_capital, is "arbitrary and capriciuos" to use US legal terms : ], for the following reasons: | |||
# deletes the passage again | |||
# explained by my IQ somehow? | |||
-- ] (]) 01:41, 15 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
1) nowhere my draft mentions the words "Ukraine" or "Ukrainian". | |||
===Discussion concerning Paul Magnussen, Sirswindon, and InigmaMan=== | |||
2) this draft ] is a translation of the original Russian wiki- article : https://ru.wikipedia.org/%D0%9C%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BB . I have heard the argument, that different languages in Misplaced Pages use different standards for articles' notability etc. Can someone please provide a web-link to Misplaced Pages rules, that actually confirms, that different standards for different languages is the currently accepted policy. I have been unable to find such statement. | |||
====Statement by Paul Magnussen, Sirswindon, and InigmaMan==== | |||
3) In fact, my draft focuses mostly on the policies before 24 February 2022, i.e. before full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine. | |||
===== Paul Magnussen ===== | |||
4) Please correct me, if I am wrong, by it seems that ]'s only argument of my ban violation is the following statement in my draft of ]. | |||
Not much to add. I'm fairly familiar with Eysenck's work. I've tried to keep the article in line with Misplaced Pages principles, notably Reliable Sources and no POV material. Distortions of fact and name-calling are (it seems to me) not Reliable. | |||
"Residents of new regions are paid maternity capital regardless of the time and basis for obtaining Russian citizenship." In my defense: I did not write that statement- it is a Google translation from the Russian wiki, actually a small part of the translated text. And with all honesty, when I was reading the translated text, it did not cross my mind, that someone may interpret so broadly. Also, this sentence-in-question does not really add much to the main subject to the article, and I do not object to its deletion. | |||
5) Considering, that | |||
As secondary objective, I've also tried to keep the article balanced and to an appropriate size. | |||
a) I did not write, but only translated the text-in-question; | |||
b) the relevance to the text-in-question to my topic ban is not apparent, particularly in the larger context of the whole article; | |||
c) I do not object deleting the text-in-question from the draft; | |||
may I suggest changing the draft to fix this controversy? | |||
6) If there are other controversial sections/sentences in my translated draft, it may be better if someone re-writes them. Most wiki-readers, can agree with a statement, that this draft ] may not reach an "Article of the Day" status, but it has a value as a stand-alone article as well as a source of references (more-to-be-added). | |||
Of course, I'm not saying I haven't made any mistakes, although I've tried not to. ] (]) 17:30, 14 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
] (]) 13:45, 25 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
I can see now, why some editors consider the translated addition, that I made, a violation of my ban on editing Russia-Ukraine topic. It was not my intention. I fact, I agree with the deletion of the questionable sentence "Residents of new regions are paid maternity capital regardless of the time and basis for obtaining Russian citizenship.". At the same time, I would like to keep the rest of draft, so that myself and other keep working on getting it published. Do I understand correctly, that the notability of this topic is not being questioned? | |||
Perhaps I should also add that I am not a sock-puppet: this is my real name, and I can provide evidence of this should it be required. ] (]) 17:35, 14 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by TylerBurden==== | |||
====Comments by others about the request concerning Paul Magnussen, Sirswindon, and InigmaMan==== | |||
Walter Tau doesn't seem to think they have done anything wrong on Misplaced Pages, so it's honestly not surprising to see them continuing to push the limit despite the sanctions they have received. At some point you have to wonder if there is a foundational ] or trolling (or a combination of both) issue. Either way, yes they are clearly violating their topic ban by writing about the Russian kidnapping of Ukrainian children from the war, because that is what this whole ″adoption″ thing is. --] (]) 17:22, 25 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
Hi, Im also involved in this discussion. I'm fully agree with user Tijfo098! If you want an overview about the issue see: . Please also have a look at . --]<sup>]</sup> 10:20, 14 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by (username)==== | |||
===Result concerning Paul Magnussen, Sirswindon, and InigmaMan=== | |||
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. --> | |||
<!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.--> | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.'' | |||
===Result concerning Walter Tau=== | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. --> | |||
*Sidestepping for now the question of whether simply not mentioning anything conflict-related would have been enough to avoid a TBAN violation, the references to "new regions" make this a violation much more straightforwardly. Justice is blind but not stupid. Walter, I think we're going to need to see recognition from you that this was a TBAN violation, if we're going to find a good path forward here. I'd also like to know who you are referring to when you reference other editors working on the draft? ] has made some gnomish edits but you appear to be the only substantive editor. And why are you implying, on Bobby's talk, that y'all have been corresponding by email, when he denies that? <span style="font-family:courier"> -- ]</span><sup class="nowrap">[]]</sup> <small>(])</small> 22:29, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I'll be direct: I think Walter knows what he is doing and has no intention of abiding by his TBAN, , and I don't think we should be wasting further time here when we're almost certainly going to be right back here again within a few weeks. ]] <small><sup>Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat!</sup></small> 05:29, 25 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*Back off a one week block for violating the topic ban, and already violating it again? (The "new regions" material is unquestionably a violation.) It seems that Walter Tau is either unwilling or unable to abide by the restriction, and does not, even after explanation, understand any of the issues here (or even understand something so simple as that different language Wikipedias are independent from one another and each have their own policies and practices). Given that, I don't see anything to be done here except to indef. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 17:45, 25 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
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M.Bitton
M.Bitton is warned against casting aspersions and reminded to abide by WP:CIVIL. Vanamonde93 (talk) 06:35, 19 December 2024 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning M.Bitton
I'll limit this to WP:CIVIL related issues for now, since they're easiest to evaluate with minimal context.
I'm not aware of CTOP sanctions. The block log seems to show four blocks, but they're not that recent and I'm not sure how relevant they are.
Another 15 diffs were (rightfully) removed by an admin for exceeding the diff limit as well as falling outside PIA scope; just mentioning for transparency. They might be relevant on a different forum but admittedly not here. — xDanielx /C\ 16:37, 10 December 2024 (UTC) @Theleekycauldron: I planned to file something after the "garbage" comments (about BobFromBrockley) on Talk:Al-Manar. I reconsidered after being surprised by M.Bitton's diplomatic compromise there. Admittedly M.Bitton's comments in the thread above prompted me to reconsider again, but that wasn't about the fact that I might receive a warning there (irrespective of M.Bitton's participation); it was just about me personally being on the receiving end of some personal attacks. I don't really follow why me being emotionally affected by the conduct would affect the legitimacy of the report. Most of the incivility was directed at other users, and letting this conduct continue wouldn't seem fair to them. — xDanielx /C\ 16:41, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
Discussion concerning M.BittonStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by M.BittonNot content with edit warring, assuming bad faith and casting aspersions (see #xDanielx), they now decided to go even lower and file a retaliatory report. M.Bitton (talk) 09:56, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by (username)Result concerning M.Bitton
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Ethiopian Epic
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Ethiopian Epic
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Tinynanorobots (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 11:23, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Ethiopian Epic (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Yasuke
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- November 14th created during the Yasuke case and went active when it ended. First 11 edits were to Government of Japan. In one case three edits were used to write one sentence.
- November 12 Manually reverted the lead back to how it was in September.
- November 16 Falsely Claimed cited material was OR. (G
- November 24 Falsely Claimed cited material was unsourced
- November 24 It took an ANI report to get him to use the article talk page. His defense was accusations and denial.
- November 23 He reverted to a version that went against consensus established on the talk page and contained a falsely sourced quote.
- November 25 Engages in sealioning
- November 29 Removes a well sourced line from Yasuke as well as reverted an edit that was the result of BRD. He has now started disputes with me on all three Yasuke related articles.
- November 30 starts disputing a new section of
- December 2 Brought again to ANI, he claims that I didn't get consensus for changes, even though I had discussed them on talk prior to making them.
- December 4 He keeps mentioning ONUS, and asking me to discuss it, in response to me discussing.
- December 9 Used a non-controversial revert to hide his edit warring.
- December 11 did the same thing on List of foreign-born samurai in Japan.
- December 11 He also repeatedly complains that he doesn't like the definition because it is vague and claims that his preferred version is "status quo"
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
- [
- Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on December 1 (see the system log linked to above).
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
I am not sure if this is actually a AE matter, but was told to go here by multiple admins. The biggest issue is the Editing against consensus on accompanied by bludgeoning. However, there are signs of bad faith editing on all three pages where I have interacted with EE. It could also be a CIR issue or it could be some sort of harassment. I don't know. I just know that EE first avoided providing clear reasons for reverting edits and has been trying to engage in Status Quo Stonewalling. He keeps citing Onus or Burden and asks me not to make a change until the discussion is over. Often, this doesn't make sense in context, because the change was in place. He has made false claims about sources and what they say. His editing on Yasuke is not so much a problem as the discussion which comes across as gaslighting.
- @User:Red-tailed hawk, I am not an expert on proxies or socks. All the IPs have only posted on the one article and have advocated an odd definition for samurai, that doesn't apply to the article. All except the first one have just reverted. It is possible that this is just laziness, or lack of confidence in writing skills etc. After all, the false citation was added by another user and was just kept. I found the latest one the most suspect, in part because of it first reverting to the incorrect definition, before restoring most of the text and second because of falsely citing policy. I am not sure if they are proxies, but I hoped that someone here would have the expertise to know. I don't think the proxy evidence is the most important. EE is either acting in bad faith or has CIR problems. The later is possible, because he thanked City of Silver during ANI, although City of Silver has been the harshest critic of EE's behaviour towards me.
- I think there should be some important context to the quote:
"those who serve in close attendance to the nobility"
. The quote can be found in several books, on Samurai it is sourced to an article published in Black Belt Magazine in the 80s by William Scott Wilson, where he describes the origin of the word samurai. He is describing the early phases of its meaning in that quote, before it became to have martial connotations. It also refers to the time before 900. The earliest foreign samurai on the list was in the late 1500s. It also doesn't apply to most of the persons on the list. Finally, it is not mentioned in Vaporis's book, which EE keeps adding as the source. He hasn't even made the effort to copy the citation from Samurai.
Not only did I have a dispute with Symphony Regalia about samurai being "retainers to lords", but also on Yasuke about "As a samurai" and on List of Foreign-born Samurai in Japan EE made the same reverts as SR. EE had with his first edit in all three articles continued a dispute that I had already had with SR.
- @User:Ethiopian Epic I actually don't have a problem with you discussing things. Your talk page posts aren't really discussion though. Your main argument on all three pages has been a shifting of the burden of proof. You don't really discuss content and continually ask me not to make changes without discussing first, and then make changes yourself. I understand that your position is that your preferred version is the status quo. However, my edits regarding the definition on List of Foreign-born samurai in Japan , were discussed and consensus was clearly gotten. Similarly, my edits on Yasuke were discussed, and even though I didn't use the exact same version as Gitz said, Gitz had suggested using warrior instead of bushi, so I used samurai, because I thought it would be less controversial.
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning Ethiopian Epic
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Ethiopian Epic
This is clear retaliatory filing because I recently didn't agree with Tinynanorobot's edits against RFC consensus, and because I made talk page sections on some recent edits.
@Eronymous That's not true and you are a very obvious alt account with only 26 edits. No one gave you a notification of this discussion and it's not on the Yasuke talk page. This suggests you are the sock puppet of someone here. Your post is also misleading and incorrect it wasn't an insertion. The line you are talking about in Samurai has been there for over 10 years and is normal. I know because I've read it before. Here is a version from 2017 that still has it. I don't understand why you are misrepresenting edits and using an alt account.
@Red-tailed hawk I think he is just fishing. That's why he removed his IP claims. Even his other diffs are just mislabeled regular behavior. It's amusing because Eronymous is the likely alt of Tinynanorobots or someone posting here. I think the way Tinynanorobots edits against clear consensus, skips discussion, and then files frivolous ANI/AE reports with misleading narrative like above is disruptive. Discussion is an easy solution and benefits everyone. I hope he will respect RFC consensus.
Statement by Relm
I am largely unfamiliar with the account in question, but I do frequently check Yasuke. I believe that EthiopianEpic has displayed a clear slant and battleground mindset in their editing in regards to the topic of Yasuke, but that their conduct on the Yasuke page itself so far has generally been in the ballpark of good faith edits. The revert on December 9th was justified, and their topic on November 29th is well within bounds (though I acknowledge that the background of their prior disputes on other pages with Tinynanorobots shows it may be edit warring) given that the two things being reverted was a change that seemed to skirt the prior RFC with agreement being given in a very non-direct way, and the other portion being an addition which had not been discussed on the talk page prior to its implementation (though previous discussions ered on the side of not including it). I am not accusing Tinynanorobots of any misconduct in any part of that either.
What I will note is that in addition to the sockpuppet IP allegations made by Tinynanorobots, I wanted to lodge that the posting style of EthiopianEpic, as well as their knowledge of much of the previous discussions on the page deep in the archive, led me to suspect that they were an alt of User:Symphony_Regalia. I never found anything conclusive. Relm (talk) 14:48, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Simonm223
These two editors have been tangling at WP:AN/I repeatedly. Last time they came there I said that this would likely continue until a third party intervened. And then the thread got archived with no action (see AN/I thread here) so I'm not surprised that the two of them are still tangling. There is evidence that both editors have engaged in a slow-motion edit war. Both have claimed the other is editing against consensus. Here I will say that it appears TinyNanoRobots is more correct than Ethiopian Epic. Furthermore, while neither editors' comportment has been stellar, as other editors have pointed out, it appears more that EE is following TNR about and giving them a hard time than the alternate. . In the linked AN/I case (above) you'll note EE attempted a boomerang on TNR and was not well-received for the effort.
Frankly my view is that both editors are not editing to the best standards of Misplaced Pages but there is definitely a more disruptive member of this duo and that is Ethiopian Epic. I think it would probably cut down on the noise considerably if they were encouraged to find somewhere to edit which was not a CTOP subject and if they were encouraged to leave TNR alone. Simonm223 (talk) 18:05, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Eronymous
Similar to Relm I check on the Yasuke page every so often, and it seems very likely given the evidence that User:Ethiopian Epic is an alt of User:Symphony_Regalia created to evade his recent ArbCom sanctions, having started editing the day prior to the Yasuke case closure. Of note to this is the last edit of Symphony_Regalia on Samurai was him attempting to insert the line "who served as retainers to lords (including daimyo)" - curiously enough, Ethiopian Epic's first edit on Samurai (and first large edit, having just prior made 11 minor ones in a short timeframe to reach autoconfirmed status) is him attempting to insert the same controversial line that was reverted before.
Symphony_Regalia has a history of utilising socks to edit Yasuke/Samurai related topics and is indefinitely blocked from the .jp wiki for extensive sockpuppetry (plus multiple suspected IPs) for this.
Prior to being sanctioned Symphony Regalia frequently got into exactly the same arguments concerning wording/source material with User:Tinynanorobots that Ethiopian Epic is now. One could assume based on their relationship that he is aggrieved that Tinynanorobots was not sanctioned by ArbCom during the case and is now continuously feuding with him to change that through edit warring and multiple administrator incidents/arbitration requests in the past few weeks. Eronymous (talk) 22:31, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Nil Einne
I was ?one of the editors who suggested Tinynanorobots consider ARE in the future. I did this mostly because after three threads on ANI with no result, I felt a change of venue might be more productive especially since the more structured nature of ARE, as well as a likely greater concern over low level of misconduct meant that some outcome was more likely. (For clarity, when I suggested this I did feel nothing would happen from the third ANI thread but in any case my advice being taken onboard would likely mean the third thread had no result.) I did try to make clear that I wasn't saying there was definitely a problem requiring sanction and also it was possible Tinynanorobots might themselves end up sanctioned. Since a topic ban on both is being considered, I might have been right in a way. If a topic ban results, I'd like to suggest admins considered some guidance beyond broadly constructed on how any topic ban would apply. While the entirety of the Yasuke article and the list of foreign born samurai stuff seem clear enough, one concern I've had at ANI is how to handle the editing at Samurai and its talk page. A lot of the recent stuff involving these editors seems to relate to the definition of samurai. AFAIK, this is generally been a big part of the dispute of Yasuke (he can/can't be a samurai because it means A which was/wasn't true about him). Nil Einne (talk) 12:42, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
Result concerning Ethiopian Epic
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- I've never been very impressed with retaliatory filings, and the one below is no exception. I will also note that I'm never too impressed with "must be a sock" type accusations—either file at SPI or don't. In this case, though, I think Yasuke would be better off if neither of these two were participating there. Seraphimblade 19:33, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
- Red-tailed hawk, what are your thoughts after the responses to you? Seraphimblade 16:18, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- I think that it would be declined if it were an WP:SPI report and the editor should be mindful not to throw sock accusations around willy-nilly going forward. But I typically don't see any sort of sanction imposed when someone makes a bad SPI report, particularly if they're newer or aren't quite clueful yet. So I don't see much to do on that front other than tell them that we need more specific evidence of socking when reports are made than merely shared interest, particularly when the IPs are scattered across the world. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 02:24, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- I'm still inclined to topic ban both these editors from Yasuke, but would be interested in hearing more thoughts on that if anyone has them. Seraphimblade 07:10, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- I think that it would be declined if it were an WP:SPI report and the editor should be mindful not to throw sock accusations around willy-nilly going forward. But I typically don't see any sort of sanction imposed when someone makes a bad SPI report, particularly if they're newer or aren't quite clueful yet. So I don't see much to do on that front other than tell them that we need more specific evidence of socking when reports are made than merely shared interest, particularly when the IPs are scattered across the world. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 02:24, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- Red-tailed hawk, what are your thoughts after the responses to you? Seraphimblade 16:18, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- I also generally don't like "might-be-a-sock"-style accusations; when we are accusing someone of sockpuppetry by logged out editing we typically need evidence to substantiate it rather than just floating the possibility in a flimsy way. Filer has provided several diffs above as possible socks, but each of those IPs geolocates to a different country (Germany, Norway, and Argentina respectively) and I don't see evidence that any of those IPs are proxies.@Tinynanorobots: Can you explain what led you to note the IP edits? Is it merely shared interest and viewpoint, or is there something more?— Red-tailed hawk (nest) 02:01, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
- Looking at this .... mess... first, I'm not sure what actually was against the ArbCom decision - I don't see a 1RR violation being alleged, and the rest really appears to me to be "throw stuff at the wall and see if it sticks". But, like Seraphimblade, I'm not impressed with either of these editors actual conduct here or in general. I could be brought around to supporting a topic ban for both of these editors in the interests of clearing up the whole topic area. Ealdgyth (talk) 14:33, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Tinynanorobots: you are well above the 500 word limit. Please request an extension before adding anything more. Barkeep49 (talk) 16:18, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
Tinynanorobots
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Tinynanorobots
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- EEpic (talk) 19:14, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Tinynanorobots (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Yasuke
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 09:21, 14 November 2024. Tinynanorobots removes
As a samurai
from the lead text and replaces it withsignifying bushi status
against RFC consensus (There exists a consensus to refer to Yasuke as a samurai without qualification
). - 17:12, 15 November 2024. Tinynanorobots removes
who served as a samurai
from the lead text and addswho became a bushi or samurai
against RFC consensus (There exists a consensus against presenting Yasuke's samurai status as the object of debate
). - 12:43, 20 November 2024. On List of Foreign-born Samurai, Tinynanorobots removes the longstanding definition and adds
This list includes persons who ... may not have been considered a samurai
against RFC consensus (There exists a consensus against presenting Yasuke's samurai status as the object of debate
). - 07:48, 23 November 2024. Tinynanorobots reverts to remove
As a samurai
in the Yasuke article after Gitz6666 opposes at , again ignoring WP:ONUS. - 03:13, 4 December 2024. I restore and start a talk page discussion so that consensus can be formed.
- 14:10, 6 December 2024 . Tinynanorobots, when consensus fails to form for his position, becomes uncivil and engages in a sarcastic personal attack
What you are saying doesn't make sense. Perhaps there is a language issue here. Maybe your native language handles the future differently than English?
- 14:22, 11 December 2024. Tinynanorobots removes "As a samurai" again, ignoring WP:ONUS and BRD even though no consensus has formed for his position, and no consensus has formed to change existing consensus.
- 08:37, 6 December 2024. Tinynanorobots explains their reasons,
I don't know if samurai is the right term
which is against consensus. - 07:27, 28 November 2024. POV-pushing - With no edit summary Tinynanorobots tag bombs by adding
Slavery in Japan
.
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
- Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on 23:06, 13 November 2024.
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
Tinynanorobots frequently edits against consensus, restores his edits when others revert, doesn't wait for consensus, and engages in feuding behavior. He seems to think WP:BRD or WP:ONUS don't apply to him which is disruptive, and I don't know why.
Unaccounted removals of sources 23:44, 14 September 2024 - Warning from other editor about repeated removal of content when multiple users are objecting.
AGF 12:21, 15 September 2024 - Warning from yet another editor about not assuming good faith and making personal attacks
It seems to be chronic which suggests behavior problems. Tinynanorobots also frequently fails to assume good faith in others. I don't know why as I don't have any issues with him.
Their preferred edit for Yasuke against the RFC consensus is now still in the lead section.
@Relm Sorry for the confusion. I think we talking about different edits, so I'll adjust that part. I am referring to Tinynanorobot's repeated removal of As a samurai
against RFC consensus, which states There exists a consensus to refer to Yasuke as a samurai without qualification
.
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning Tinynanorobots
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Tinynanorobots
The accusations made by EE are so misleading as to be evidence against him. Most of what he is discussing is in reference to a successful BRD. I actually discussed the bold edit first on the talk, but didn't get much of a response. I decided a bold edit would get more feedback. The edits were reverted and then discussed. Gitz's main problem was OR, not a RfC violation. This was because he didn't read the cited source. Anyway, since Atkin says "signifying bushi status", I have no objection to restoring this text.
I never used any sarcasm, I know that some languages handle how they talk about time differently. It seems reasonable that a translation error could be the reason for EE asking me not to change the article, althoug my edit had already been restored by someone else and at the same time asking me to discuss that I had already discussed and was already discussing. I am disappointed that EE didn't point out that he felt attacked, so that I could apologize.
This was written in response to another user, and the whole thought is I don't know if samurai is the right term. It is the term a fair amount of sources use, and the one that the RfC says should be used. It is also consistent with common usage in reference to other historical figures.
In fact earlier in that post I said this: I am not qualified to say whither or not Yasuke having a house meant that he was a samurai
This is blatantly taking a quote out of context in order to prejudice the Admins against me.
- @User:Ealdgyth I filed here, because the last time I filed at ANI it was suggested that I bring things here if things continue by an Admin. I try to follow advice, although I keep getting conflicting signals from Admins. I am most concerned that you find my work on Samurai and List of Foreign-born Samurai in Japan not adding anything helpful. My suggestion to rewrite the way samurai was defined on the List in order to reduce OR and bring it in line with WP:LSC was meant with unanimous approval by those who responded. Samurai is a high importance article that has tags on it from years back, is unorganized and contains outdated information. I am not the best writer, but I have gotten some books, and am pretty much the only one working on it.
Statement by Relm
I am the editor alluded to and quoted as 'protesting' Tinynanorobots edit. When I originally made that topic, I was fixing a different edit which left the first sentence as a grammatically incomplete sentence. When I looked at it in the editing view, one of the quotes in the citation beforehand was quoting Atkins Vera, and I mistook this for the opening quote having been changed. When I closed the editing menu I saw 'signifying samurai status' in the second paragraph and confused the two for each other as I had not noticed the addition of the latter phrase a little under a month ago. I realized my mistake almost immediately after I posted the new topic, and made this (1) edit to clarify my mistake while also attempting to instead direct the topic towards making sure that the edit recieved sufficient assent from Gitz (it did) and to talk about improvements that could be made to the opening sentence. I further clarified and made clear that I was not accusing Tinynanorobots of having done anything wrong in a later response (2).
Though many of their earlier edits on the page may show some issues, as they grew more familiar with the past discussions I believe that Tinynanorobots has made valuable contributions to the page in good faith. Relm (talk) 03:21, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Barkeep49
- @Ealdgyth I think this misinterprets the ArbCom decision. So Yakuse is a contentious topic and it has a 1RR restriction, in the same way as say PIA. As in PIA administrators can sanction behavior that violates the contentious topics procedures besides 1RR. Beyond that, editing against the RFC is a finding of fact from the case. Barkeep49 (talk) 16:25, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by (username)
Result concerning Tinynanorobots
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- As above, I'm failing to see what exactly is against the ArbCom case rulings - I don't see a 1RR violation. But also as above, I'm coming to the view that neither of these editors are adding anything helpful to the topic area and am leaning towards a topic ban for both. Ealdgyth (talk) 14:35, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
Selfstudier
No evidence of misconduct was presented. Filer Allthemilescombined1 is informally warned against frivolous filings. -- Tamzin (they|xe|🤷) 02:36, 19 December 2024 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
}
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Selfstudier
Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 5
On I/P topics, my edits on numerous occasions have been reverted almost immediately, by Selfstudier and their fellow editors who seem to be always hanging around I/P, and "owning" the topic area. They are creating a hostile editing environment and are violating NPOV. Concerns for possible WP:CIVIL and WP:TENDENTIOUS violations:
Concerns for possible WP:GAME and WP:NOT ADVOCACY violations:
Concerns for possible WP:ASPERSIONS violations:
Concerns for possible WP:TAG TEAM violations:
Selected examples of my edits which were reverted within hours or minutes (this list is far from comprehensive):
In summary, I have experienced a pattern of consistent, and what appears to be organized, intimidation from a small group of editors.
Discussion concerning SelfstudierStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by SelfstudierStatement by Sean.hoylandI see I've been mentioned but not pinged. That's nice. I encourage anyone to look at the diffs and the context. Why are there editors in the topic area apparently ignoring WP:NOTFORUM and WP:NOTADVOCACY? It's a mystery. It is, and has always been, one of the root causes of instability in the topic area and wastes so much time. Assigning a cost to advocacy might reduce it. Either way, it needs to be actively suppressed by enforcement of the WP:NOT policy. It's a rule, not an aspiration. Sean.hoyland (talk) 15:23, 13 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by Butterscotch BelugaI didn't say it was "irrelevant to pro-Palestine protests" as a whole. The edit I reverted was specifically at 2024 pro-Palestinian protests on university campuses, so as I said, the "Incident did not occur at a university campus so is outside the scope of this article". We have other articles like Israel–Hamas war protests & more specifically Israel–Hamas war protests in the United States that are more in scope of your proposed edit. - Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 20:52, 13 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by HuldraI wish the filer would have wiki-linked names, then you would easily have seen that Bernard-Henri Lévy "is not an expert on Zionism or colonialism”, or that Adam Kirsch “does not appear to be an expert in Zionism or Settler colonial studies but is apparently well known for a pro Israel viewpoint", Huldra (talk) 22:11, 13 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by RolandRI too have been mentioned above, and complained about, but not been notified. If this is not a breach of Misplaced Pages regulations, then it ought to be. As for the substance, I see that I am accused of describing Norman H. Finkelstein as a "non-notable children’s writer". Norman H. Finkelstein was indeed a children's writer, as described in most reports and obituaries. At the time of the original edit and my revert, he was not considered sufficiently notable to merit a Misplaced Pages article; it was only a week later that the OP created an article, of which they have effectively been the only editor. So I stand by my characterisation, which is an accurate and objective description of the author. Further, I was concerned that a casual reader might be led to confuse this writer with the highly significant writer Norman Finkelstein; in fact, I made my edit after AlsoWukai had made this mistake and linked the cited author to the genuinely notable person. This whole report, and the sneaky complaints about me and other editors, is entirely worthless and should be thrown out. RolandR (talk) 22:29, 13 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by Zero0000This edit by OP is illustrative. It is just a presentation of personal belief with weak or irrelevant sources. I don't see evidence of an ability to contribute usefully. Zero 00:31, 14 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by SameboatIt is clear that the filer has failed to understand my message, which was a warning about repeated violations of the NotForum policy. Instead, they have misinterpreted my actions, as well as those of others, as part of a coordinated "tag team." I raised my concerns on User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish after the filer's edit on the UNRWA article regarding its controversy, which failed to properly attribute the information to its source—the Israeli government. This filing is a complete waste of time, and serious sanctions should be imposed on the filer if similar issues occur again in the future. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk · contri.) 02:17, 14 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by AlsoWukaiContrary to the filer's complaint, I never made an edit "removing the disappearance of the ANC's $31 million debt when South Africa accused Israel of genocide." I can only conclude that the filer misread the edit history. AlsoWukai (talk) 20:55, 14 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by ValereeeeThe diff allthemiles links to above is me responding to their post (in which they complained about a mildly sarcastic remark by another editor) where they said, "If respectful discussion is not possible, administrative involvement will be needed." I've been trying to keep up at that article talk, so I responded giving them my take on it. I tried to keep engaging, trying to help them understand the challenges for less experienced editors trying to work in the topic, offering advice on how they could get up to speed at that particular article, even offering to continue the discussion at their talk or mine. Valereee (talk) 14:29, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
Result concerning Selfstudier
|
Rasteem
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Rasteem
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- NXcrypto (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 03:06, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Rasteem (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- WP:ARBIPA
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 23:21 12 December 2024 - removed wikilink of an Indian railway station thus violating his topic ban from India and Pakistan.
This violation comes after he was already warned for his first violation of the topic ban.
Upon a closer look into his recent contribution, I found that he is simply WP:GAMING the system by creating articles like Arjan Lake which is overall only 5,400 bytes but he made nearly 50 edits here. This is clearly being done by Rasteem for passing the 500 edits mark to get his topic ban overturned.
I recommend increasing the topic ban to indefinite duration. Nxcrypto Message 03:06, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- "topic banned from the subject of India and Pakistan, broadly construed, until both six months have elapsed and they have made 500 edits after being notified of this sanction."
- If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
- I agree that there are genuine CIR issues with Rasteem, for example while this ARE report is in progress they created Javan Lake, which has promotional statements like: "The lake's stunning caluts, majestic desert topographies, and serene lakes produce a shifting destination. Its unique charm attracts a wide range of guests, from adventure contenders to nature suckers and beyond". Nxcrypto Message 03:26, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Rasteem
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Rasteem
This approach seems to be a coordinated attack to abandon me from Misplaced Pages indefinitely. Indeed, after my ban for 6 months. I was banned on 6 December, and in just 7 days, this report is literally an attempt to make me leave Misplaced Pages.
1. I rolled back my own edit; it was last time made unintentionally. I was about to revert it, but my internet connection was lost, so when I logged in again, I regressed it.
The internet is constantly slow and sometimes goes down. I live in a hilly location and I had formerly mentioned it.
My edits on Arjan Lake isn't any WP:GAMING factual number of edits I made; it is 45, not 50. Indeed, I made similar edits before in September and December months on the same articles within a single day or 2-3 days.
2. List of villages in Khoda Afarin on this article, I've added 5680 bytes & made 43 edits.
3. List of villages in Tabriz on this article I've added 4000 bytes & made 49 edits.
Statement by (username)
Result concerning Rasteem
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- While I don't see a change in editing pattern that indicates gaming, the edits to Arjan Lake indicate issues with competence, as the article is weirdly promotional and contains phrases such as "beast species", "emotional 263 proved species". —Femke 🐦 (talk) 20:57, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
- Adding to Femke's point,
magnific 70- cadence-high waterfalls in this area
is not prose that inspires confidence in the editor's competence to edit the English Misplaced Pages. So, we have violations of a topic ban and questions about the editor's linguistic competence and performance. Perhaps an indefinite block appealable in six months with a recommendation to build English competency by editing the Simple English Misplaced Pages, and to build general Misplaced Pages skills by editing in the version of Misplaced Pages in the language they speak best during that minimum six month period. As for Arjan Lake, although the prose is poor, the references in the article make it clear to me that the topic is notable, so the editor deserves some credit for starting this article that did not exist for two decades plus. Cullen328 (talk) 08:57, 14 December 2024 (UTC) - Brief comment to avoid the archive bot. Seraphimblade 17:46, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
שלומית ליר
שלומית ליר is reminded to double-check edits before publishing, and to try to reply more promptly when asked about potential mistakes. —Femke 🐦 (talk) 20:21, 18 December 2024 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning שלומית ליר
N/A
The user wrote that NATO had supported accusations against Hamas citing a chapter titled Hamas and Human Rights in a book titled Hamas Rule in Gaza: Human Rights under Constraint. They cited the entire chapter, pages 56–126. The source itself is a work of scholarship, and nobody would challenge it as a reliable source. Luckily, the full text of the book is available via the Misplaced Pages Library, and anybody with access to that can verify for themselves that the word "shield" appears nowhere in the book. Not human shield, or even NATO (nato appears in searches with the results being "explanatory, twice and coordinator once, or Atlantic, or N.A.T.O. It is simply made up that this source supports that material. The user later, after being challenged but declining to answer what in the source supports it (see here), added another source that supposedly supports the material, this paper by NATO StratCom COE, however they themselves say they are not part of the NATO Command Structure, nor subordinate to any other NATO entity. As such the Centre does not therefore speak for NATO, though that misunderstanding is certainly forgivable. However, completely making up that a source supports something, with a citation to 70 pages of a book, is less so. That is to me a purposeful attempt at obfuscating that the source offered does not support the material added, and the lack of any attempt of explaining such an edit on the talk page led me to file a report here. nableezy - 23:48, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
Discussion concerning שלומית לירStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by שלומית לירThe article "Use of human shields by Hamas" is intended to address a well-documented phenomenon: Hamas’s deliberate use of civilian infrastructure — homes, hospitals, and mosques — as shields for its military operations. This includes hiding weapons, constructing military tunnels beneath civilian populations, and knowingly placing innocent lives in harm’s way. Yet, I found the article falls far short of adequately describing this phenomenon. It presents vague and generalized accusations while failing to reference the numerous credible organizations that have extensively documented these practices. During my review, I discovered that essential sources were available in the article's edit history (https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Use_of_human_shields_by_Hamas&oldid=1262868174). I retrieved and restored these sources without reverting prior edits, including a source referenced by user Nableezy. When it was brought to my attention that an error had occurred, I acknowledged it, thanked the user, and corrected it by incorporating two reliable references. I had hoped this would resolve the issue, but apparently, it did not. Now, I find myself the subject of an arbitration enforcement hearing that feels not only unwarranted but intended to intimidate me from contributing further to this article. I would also like to point out that the responses to my edits raise serious concerns. For instance, an image depicting missiles hidden in a family home — an image used in other Wikipedias to illustrate this topic — was removed. This raises the question: why obscure such critical evidence? Similarly, a scholarly source with credible information that emphasizes the severity of this issue was reverted without clear justification. This article should serve as a thorough account of Hamas's war crimes, which have resulted in the deaths of innocent civilians. Instead, it seems that some editors are working to dilute its substance, resisting efforts to include vital context and documentation at the start of the article. This undermines the article’s purpose and risks distorting the public’s understanding of an issue of profound international importance.שלומית ליר (talk) 19:52, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Supreme DeliciousnessValereee created the article Politics of food in the Arab–Israeli conflict. She is therefor involved in the topic area and shouldn't be editing in the uninvolved admin section.--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 08:41, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by (username)Result concerning שלומית ליר
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KronosAlight
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning KronosAlight
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Butterscotch Beluga (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 03:16, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- KronosAlight (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4#ARBPIA General Sanctions
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- Adds "depiste being an ex-Muslim" to dismiss accusations of Islamophobia MOS:EDITORIAL.
- Adds MOS:SCAREQUOTES around ‘promoted Islamophobia’ & ‘Islamophobia’ while removing the supporting context.
- Changed "interpreted that statement as a threat and incitement to violence" to "claimed was a threat and incitement to violence, though no threats or violence in fact occurred" MOS:CLAIM & MOS:EDITORIAL
- Changes "Israeli settlers" to "Israeli soldiers" despite the source only explicitly stating them "throwing stones on settlers."
- Unnecessarily specific additions that may constitute WP:POVPUSH such as adding "against civilians" & changing "prevent the assassinations of many Israelis" to "prevent the assassinations of many Israeli civilians and soldiers"
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- 24 June 2024 Warned to abide by the one-revert rule when making edits within the scope of the Arab-Israeli conflict topic area.
- 22 October 2024 Blocked from editing for 1 week for violating consensus required on the page Zionism
- If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
- Previously given a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction or warned for conduct in the area of conflict on 22 October 2024 by ScottishFinnishRadish (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA).
- Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on 24 January 2024.
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
All edits were made at Mosab Hassan Yousef. After I partially reverted their edits with an explanation, I brought the issue to their attention on the talk page, asking for their rationale. They replied that they were "correcting factual errors introduced by previous antisemitic editors" & asked if I "perhaps have a deeper bias that’s influencing decisions in this respect?"
They then undid my partial revert
- Ealdgyth - While I can't find any comments where they were explicitly "warned for casting aspersions", they were asked back in June to WP:AGF in the topic area.
- Also, apologies for my "diffs of edits that violate this sanction" section, this is the first time I've filed a request here & I thought it'd be best to explain the preamble to my revert, but I understand now that I misunderstood the purpose of that section & will remember such for the future. - Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 15:37, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Vanamonde93 I was able to find a copy of the opinion article being cited 'They Need to Be Liberated From Their God'. Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 20:14, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning KronosAlight
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by KronosAlight
This is a complete waste of the Arbitration Committee’s time.
1. That Yousef was born and raised a Muslim is important and neutral context for readers to be aware of when the article refers to claims of ‘Islamophobia’.
2. The scarequotes indicate that the claim comes from the sources provided, rather than being an objective ‘fact’ determined by a few Misplaced Pages Editors with an axe to grind.
3. This was already addressed on the Talk page and I updated the sentence to say settlers/soldiers with a further label that it needed further clarification because the source does not in fact unambiguously say what Butterscotch Beluga claims.
A few lines above what Butterscotch Beluga quotes is the following lines: “AMANPOUR: How did you take part in that? Were you one of the small children who threw rocks at Israeli soldiers?
YOUSEF: The model for every Palestinian child is a mujahid (ph) or a fidahi (ph) or a fighter. So, of course, I wanted to be one at that point of my life. It wasn't -- it's not my only dream. It's every child's dream in that territory.”
The updated Wiki page noted both settlers/soldiers and included a note that this requires further clarification, perhaps based on other sources, because it isn’t clear (contra Butterscotch Beluga) whether he is referring to soldiers or settlers.
4. It is not controversial to accurately describe Hamas as a terrorist organisation. It is simply a fact. To suggest otherwise is POV-pushing.
5. This is not POVPUSH; ‘assassinations’ against civilians during peacetime are usually called ‘murders’.
I in fact didn’t even remove the word ‘assassinations’, I merely broadened the description from ‘Israelis’ to ‘Israeli civilians and soldiers’ (as Butterscotch accepted) to indicate the breadth of the individuals in question included both civilians and combatants. This is not POVPUSH, it is simply additional information and context verified in the source itself.
All in all, a vexatious claim and a waste of the Arbitration Committee’s time.
Statement by Sean.hoyland
Regarding "I was correcting factual errors introduced by previous antisemitic editors", it would be helpful if KronosAlight would explicitly identify the antisemitic editors and the edits they corrected so that they can be blocked for being antisemitic editors. Sean.hoyland (talk) 08:17, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
The editor has been here since 2012. It is reasonable to assume that they know the rules regarding aspersions. It is reasonable to assume they are intentionally violating them, presumably because they genuinely believe they are dealing with antisemitic editors. So, this report is somehow simultaneously a vexatious complete waste of time and the result of the someone interfering with their valiant efforts to correct errors made by antisemitic editors. Why do they have this belief? This is probably a clue, a comment they had the good sense to revert. For me, this is an example of someone attempting to use propaganda that resembles antisemitic conspiracy theories about media control to undermine Misplaced Pages's processes and then changing their mind. But the very fact that they thought of it is disturbing. Their revert suggests that they are probably aware that there are things you can say about an editor and things you cannot say about an editor. From my perspective, what we have here is part of an emerging pattern in the topic area, a growing number of attacks on Misplaced Pages and editors with accusations of antisemitism, cabals etc. stemming in part from external partisan sources/influence operations. Sean.hoyland (talk) 17:35, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Zero0000
Aspersions:
- I made that comment to highlight the obvious problem of antisemitism among Misplaced Pages editors.
- It seems less like a merger and more like a deliberate burying of the original information.
- Given some of the users involved there, I don’t have very high hopes given the Pirate Wires allegations.
- Is there no limits you will not cross in order to seek to justify your Jew-hatred?
Zero 10:36, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Vice regent
KronosAlight, you changed on 14 Dec 2024: "An open letter signed by Christian and Muslim religious leaders interpreted that statement as a threat and incitement to violence
" to "An open letter signed by Christian and Muslim religious leaders claimed was a threat and incitement to violence, though no threats or violence in fact occurred
".
Can you show where either of the sources state "though no threats or violence in fact occurred"? VR (Please ping on reply) 18:07, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Smallangryplanet
Wanted to add some pertinent evidence:
Talk:Zionism:
- "Interesting question, you should look it up and find an answer"
- I’ll leave it to others to consider what that says about Misplaced Pages’s community.
- If your claim is that the sinking of SS Patria is morally comparable then I simply don’t think you should be allowed to contribute to any of these articles
- You think WW2 and the Holocaust are too low-level to include in the lede?
Talk:Allegations of genocide in the 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon:
Talk:Relations between Nazi Germany and the Arab world:
Talk:2024 Lebanon electronic device attacks:
Talk:Anti-Zionism:
- There's no difference between opposing the Jewish people's right to self-determination and calling for the destruction of the State of Israel. It's just two different sets of words to describe the same thing.
- "The route to this implication is via the identification of anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism. Anti-Semites want to rid the world of Jews: Israel is a Jewish State: Anti-Zionists oppose Israel as a Jewish state, ergo anti-Zionists are anti-Semitic, and as such, seek the destruction of Israel." All of this is correct.
Talk:Gaza genocide:
- Even if we assume that Hamas' own numbers are broadly correct (which we shouldn't, because it don't distinguish between civilian and combatant casualties, and have been repeatedly proven be largely just invented), that doesn’t seem to even come close to genocide. Why are we even indulging this ludicrous nonsense?
- When this war ends and the vast, vast, vast majority of Palestinians in both Gaza and the West Bank are still alive and negotiating begin about the future of their region and political administration etc., will this article be deleted, or will this remain as yet another blood libel against the Jewish people?
Talk:Nuseirat rescue and massacre:
Talk:Al-Sardi school attack:
Talk:Eden Golan:
Other sanctions:
- March 2024: indefinitely topic banned from the subject of flood myths for sealioning, WP:ASPERSIONS, etc
- June 2024: warned to abide by 1RR
- October 2024: blocked for a week
Statement by (username)
Result concerning KronosAlight
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- Much of the "diffs of edits that violate this sanction" fail to explain "how these edits violate" the sanction - to me, much of these diffs look like a content dispute. However, the "additional comments" section DOES have a diff that is concerning and violates the CT by casting an aspersion that is not backed up by a diff - the "antisemitic editors" diff. Has KA been previously warned for casting aspersions? If they have, I'm inclined to issue a topic ban, but many other editors get a warning for this if they lack a previous warning. The diffs brought up by Zero (not all of which I necessarily see as aspersions, but the "Jew-hatred" one is definitely over the line - but it's from September so a bit late to sanction for just that) - did anyone point out that aspersions/incivility in this topic area is sanctionable? I see the warnings for 1RR and consensus required... Ealdgyth (talk) 13:30, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
- @KronosAlight: - can you address the fact that saying "correcting factual errors introduced by previous antisemitic editors" and "Is there no limits you will not cross in order to seek to justify your Jew-hatred"? Neither of these are statements that should ever be made - and the fact that you seem to not to understand this is making me lean towards a topic ban. Ealdgyth (talk) 14:45, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- KronosAlight, can you please provide quotes from the references you cited for - for instance - "for his terrorist activities" in this addition, showing that the sources explicitly supported the content you added? Calling a person or an organization is perfectly acceptable if you support that with reliable sources; if it is original research, or source misrepresentation, it isn't acceptable. I cannot access some of the sources in question. You may provide quotes inside a collapsed section if you wish to save space. Vanamonde93 (talk) 19:28, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
- I missed Zero's comments earlier. A lot of those comments, while concerning, are generic, not directed at a specific editor. this, however, is beyond the pale. I would need some convincing that this user is able to edit this area constructively. Vanamonde93 (talk) 20:56, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
- @KronosAlight, can you please respond to this? I too am concerned...the quote you're objecting to wasn't from DrSmarty. It was a direct quote, scare quotes and all, from the US Holocaust Memorial Museum. You seem to have reacted to it as if it were DrSmarty. Valereee (talk) 16:06, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- I missed Zero's comments earlier. A lot of those comments, while concerning, are generic, not directed at a specific editor. this, however, is beyond the pale. I would need some convincing that this user is able to edit this area constructively. Vanamonde93 (talk) 20:56, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
- I don't like to sanction in absentia, and I'm not yet suggesting we do so, but I want to note that not choosing not to respond here, or going inactive to avoid responding, will not improve the outcome as far as I am concerned. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:20, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- They're a pretty sporadic editor...many edits over a period of a few days, then nothing for two weeks. Maybe we pin this until they edit again? Valereee (talk) 17:26, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- I agree with Valereee that this editors contribution history shows a pattern of editing for a day or two at a time followed by several weeks of inactivity. So I don't think it's fair to say they went inactive here but also holding this open for multiple weeks waiting for a response places some burden on the other other interested editors. Barkeep49 (talk) 17:33, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- They're a pretty sporadic editor...many edits over a period of a few days, then nothing for two weeks. Maybe we pin this until they edit again? Valereee (talk) 17:26, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Nicoljaus
Procedural notes: Per the rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals, a "clear and substantial consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.
To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
- Appealing user
- Nicoljaus (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:09, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- Sanction being appealed
- To enforce an arbitration decision, and for edit warring, and intent to game 1rr, you have been blocked indefinitely from editing Misplaced Pages.
- Administrator imposing the sanction
- ScottishFinnishRadish (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
- Notification of that administrator
- I'm aware. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Nicoljaus
The circumstances of my blocking were:
- I was looking for a Misplaced Pages account for Hiba Abu Nada to add it to Wikidata. I couldn't find it, so I did a little research. The reference in the article indicated that she participated in some WikiWrites(?) project. I didn’t find such a project, but I found the WikiRights project: https://ar.wikipedia.org/ويكيبيديا:ويكي_رايتس. It was organized by a certain Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor. I read the Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor article and didn't see any outside perspective, "controversy" or anything like that, just self-representation. I surfed the Internet and instantly found information that must be in the article to comply with the NPOV. I started adding , everything went well for two days. Then:
- 12:53, 23 April 2024 - Zero0000 made a complete cancellation of all additions
- 13:14, 23 April 2024 - (20 minutes later!) Selfstudier wrote on my TP
- 14:20 - 14:22, 23 April 2024 - With two edits (first, second) I partially took into account the comment of Zero0000 about "ethnic marking", but returned the last .
- 14:27, 23 April 2024 (7 minutes later!!) Selfstudier makes a second complete cancellation of all my edits, blaming POV editing
- 14:45, 23 April 2024 - I’m returning the version where I partially took into account Zero0000’s comments (removed "ethnic marking")
- 15:10, 23 April 2024 - Selfstudier accuses me of 1RR breach. In the dialogue, I explained that the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination. My first undo was part of a counter edit User talk:Nicoljaus#1RR_breach
- 15:41, 23 April 2024 Selfstudier writes on Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement
- 16:10, 23 April 2024 (30 minutes later!) ScottishFinnishRadish issues an indefinite block . No opportunity to write my “statement”, as well as an extremely bad faith interpretation of my remark as "an intent to game 1rr".
Given that the both Selfstudier and Zero0000 are currently being discussed in Arbcom (https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_5/Evidence), I humbly ask you to take a fresh look at my indefinite block and soften the restrictions in some way". Nicoljaus (talk) 19:32, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- @ScottishFinnishRadish: - You mean, I need to discuss my previous edit war blocks? Well, the last one was almost four years ago and that time I simply forgot that I was under 1RR (there was a big break in editing) and tried to get sources for a newly added map, and the opponent refused to do so . As it turned out later, the true source was a book by a fringe author, which the RSN called "Usual nationalistic bullshit, no sign of reliability". Yes, it was a stupid forgetfulness on my part. Nicoljaus (talk) 16:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Aquillion:
Even if you were correct that Selfstudier & Zero0000 were WP:TAGTEAMing (always a tricky accusation, because it's hard to separate that from just your edits being so obviously problematic that two people independently reverted them)
-- That's why I wrote that my "so problematic edits" attracted attention only after two days, but two users appeared within 20 minutes. However, after months, a lot of data about the cooperation of these users appeared (and this is not my imagination): "While a single editor, Shane (a newbie), advocated for its inclusion, a trio of veterans including Zero0000, Nishidani and Selfstudier fought back. After Selfstudier accused Shane of being a troll for arguing for the photo’s inclusion, Zero0000, days later, “objected” to its inclusion, citing issues of provenance. Nishidani stepped in to back up Zero0000, prompting a response by Shane. The following day, Zero0000 pushed back against Shane, who responded. The day after, Nishidani returned with his own pushback. The tag-team effort proved too much for Shane, who simply gave up, and the effort succeeded: the photo remains absent" . I'll add that after Selfstudier accused Shane of trolling, Zero0000 appeared on Shane's page and said: "Kindly keep your insults to yourself I won't hesitate to propose you for blocking if you keep it up" . According to the table at the link , these two users cooperated like this 720 times. Probably hundreds of people were embittered, forced out of the project, or led to blocking like me.--Nicoljaus (talk) 13:02, 20 December 2024 (UTC) - @ScottishFinnishRadish: Hello, thank you very much for transferring my remarks, now I understand how it works. I would like to clarify the issue of meatpuppetry. You directly accused me of such intentions in justifying the block, and now this accusation has been repeated . Let's figure out whether my hint that Selfstudier and Zero0000 are working too closely was so absurd? Was it really and remains so absurd that it could not be perceived as anything other than my self-exposure? I don't think so.
As for the "edit war" - I understand that edit wars are evil. In the spirit of cooperation, I tried to meet my opponents halfway, as in this case, taking into account their claim, which I could understand, in the counter edit. If such an action is also considered an edit war and a violation of the 1RR/3RR rule - I will of course avoid it in the future.--Nicoljaus (talk) 16:00, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
@Valereee: Hello, I understand your point that edit wars can be disruptive, particularly in a CTOP context. However, I believe it is essential to recognize that not all reverts carry the same implications. While it is true that a revert is a revert, the context and intent behind the action should also be taken into account. In this instance, I made efforts to address the concerns of the other party involved, which reflects a willingness to engage in dialogue rather than simply reverting. Furthermore, I acknowledge your reference to the 1RR/3RR rule and my history of blocks for edit-warring. However, given the amount of time that has passed, I believe I have gained valuable insights and learned a great deal. Moreover, given this topic, I think I actually learned something unlike the other side, whose history of blocks for edit-warring remains clean.--Nicoljaus (talk) 4:24 am, Today (UTC−5)
@Valereee: In response to this, I can say that I already know very well how carelessly admins impose blocks. If any further statements are needed from me, just ping me. With best regards.--Nicoljaus (talk) 09:51, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by ScottishFinnishRadish
Absent from the appeal is discussion of the five prior edit warring blocks and any indication that they will not resume edit warring. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- I said
They have a long history of edit warring, so I'd like to see that addressed rather than blaming others
above, twelve days ago. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:30, 19 December 2024 (UTC) - Nicoljaus, you should be focusing on convincing people that you won't edit war in the future rather than more WP:NOTTHEM. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:11, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by (involved editor 1)
Statement by (involved editor 2)
Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Nicoljaus
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Simonm223
This edit looks like a bright-line WP:BLP violation via WP:ATTACK and WP:WEASEL - and removing BLP violations are generally somewhere where there is some latitude on WP:1RR which makes the actions of Zero0000 and Selfstudier more justified, not less. Simonm223 (talk) 13:50, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Aquillion
Selfstudier accuses me of 1RR breach. In the dialogue, I explained that the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination. My first undo was part of a counter edit
- I feel like this is obvious enough that I probably don't have to point it out, but "counter edit" is not a WP:3RR / WP:1RR exception. Even if you were correct that Selfstudier & Zero0000 were WP:TAGTEAMing (always a tricky accusation, because it's hard to separate that from just your edits being so obviously problematic that two people independently reverted them), it still would not justify your revert. The fact that they're parties to an ArbCom case (which hasn't even yet found any fault with them!) doesn't change any of this. You should probably read WP:NOTTHEM. --Aquillion (talk) 14:15, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Sean.hoyland
"the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination"...yet another conspiracy-minded evidence-free accusation against editors in the PIA topic area, the third one at AE in just a few days. Sean.hoyland (talk) 14:59, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by (uninvolved editor 1)
Result of the appeal by Nicoljaus
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- I do not see any indication that Nicoljaus actually realizes the problem. The edit warring blocks were indeed some time ago, but one might think they would remember it after being blocked for it repeatedly, not to mention that being issued a CTOP notice might call a CTOP restriction to mind. And the remark in question sure looks to me like a threat to game 1RR via meatpuppetry, too. Given all that, I would decline this appeal. Seraphimblade 23:10, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- I see nothing in this appeal that makes me think they've taken on board the changes that they'd need to do to be a productive editor. It reads to me like "my block was bad, here's why", and that's not working as a reason for me to support unblocking. Ealdgyth (talk) 23:21, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- Nicoljaus, what we need to see is you demonstrating you understand edit-warring at a CTOP, which is what you were blocked for, and convincing us you won't do it again. Arguing the block should be lifted because other editors did something you thought looked suspicious isn't going to convince us. Just FWIW, Nicoljaus, the source doesn't actually say these two users cooperated like this 720 times. It says they edited the same articles 720 times, and that's not unusual. Most editors see the same other editors over and over again in articles about their primary interest. And edit by editor 1>2 days>revert by editor 2>revert by editor 1>20 minutes>revert by editor 3 is also not at all unusual anywhere on the encyclopedia and isn't evidence of tag-teaming. People read their watch lists. Any editor with that article on their watchlist, which is nearly fifty editors, might have investigated the large revert of an edit by an experienced editor at a contentious topic. Valereee (talk) 15:18, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Nicoljaus, it's not that edit wars are evil. It's that they're disruptive, and particularly in a CTOP we really really don't need additional disruption and drama. A revert is a revert, even if you tried to meet my opponents halfway, as in this case, taking into account their claim, which I could understand, in the counter edit. Re: If such an action is also considered an edit war and a violation of the 1RR/3RR rule: a revert is a revert and is covered in the policy around reversions. And you have a history of blocks for edit-warring, including at other CTOPs.
- It's been seven months since the block. I'm trying to come around to a way to at least allow this editor a chance to show us they've taken this stuff on board...maybe a 0RR at all CTOPs? Valereee (talk) 17:44, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Nicoljaus, re I believe it is essential to recognize that not all reverts carry the same implications. While it is true that a revert is a revert, the context and intent behind the action should also be taken into account. In this instance, I made efforts to address the concerns of the other party involved, which reflects a willingness to engage in dialogue rather than simply reverting. Some editors at talk pages will take your apparent intentions into account. Some will just take you to ANEW. Some admins at ANEW will take your apparent intentions into account. Some will just reblock you.
- No one anywhere is promising that your intentions will be taken into account -- or even that they'll try to figure out what your intentions are -- and therefore it's completely your responsibility to read the situation you're in correctly. If you read it wrong, you're likely to be blocked again, and honestly another block for edit-warring at a CTOP is likely to be another indef, and it would absolutely not surprise me for the blocking admin to require 12 months to appeal. Valereee (talk) 15:25, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- No need to reply, but I'll tell you plainly I've been trying to give you opportunities to convince other admins here, and you keep wanting to dig the hole deeper. I'd support an unblock with an editing restriction of 0RR at any article with a CTOPs designation on the talk page. Valereee (talk) 13:13, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
PerspicazHistorian
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning PerspicazHistorian
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- NXcrypto (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- PerspicazHistorian (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- WP:ARBIPA
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 17:57, 18 December 2024 - removed "discrimination" sidebar from the page of Hindutva (fascist ideology) even though the sidebar was inserted inside a section, not even the lead.
- 17:59, 18 December 2024 - tag bombed the highly vetted Hindutva article without any discussion or reason
- 10:15, 18 December 2024 - attributing castes to people withhout any sources
- 12:11, 18 December 2024 - edit warring to impose the above edits after getting reverted
- 17:09, 18 December 2024 - just like above, but this time he also added unreliable sources
- 18:29, 18 December 2024 - still edit warring and using edit summaries instead of talk page for conversation
- 14:46, 19 December 2024 (UTC) - filed an outrageous report on WP:ANI without notifying any editors. This report was closed by Bbb23 as "
This is nothing but a malplaced, frivolous personal attack by the OP.
"
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
I do not see any positive signs that this editor will ever improve. So far he has only regressed. Nxcrypto Message 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- While going through this report, PerspicazHistorian has made another highly problematic edit here by edit warring and misrepresenting the sources to label the organisation as "terrorist". This primary source only provides a list of organisations termed by the Indian government as "terrorist" contrary to MOS:TERRORIST. Nxcrypto Message 03:12, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
Discussion concerning PerspicazHistorian
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by PerspicazHistorian
By far I am also concerned how my edits were forcefully reverted without a proper reason despite providing enough references. Please check how I am getting attacked by them on Chandraseniya_Kayastha_Prabhu Page.
I didn't know about the three-revert-rule before User: Ratnahastin told me about this: User_talk:PerspicazHistorian.
Please grant me one more chance, I will make sure not to edit war.
In the below statement by LukeEmily, As a reply I just want to say that I was just making obvious edit on Chandraseniya_Kayastha_Prabhu by adding a list of notable people with proper references. And according to Edit_warring#What_edit_warring_is it is clearly said: "Edits from a slanted point of view, general insertion or removal of material, or other good-faith changes are not considered vandalism." It was a good faith edit but others reverted it. I accept my mistake of not raising it on talk page as a part of Misplaced Pages:BOLD,_revert,_discuss_cycle.
As a clarification to my edit on Students' Islamic Movement of India, it can be clearly seen that I provided enough reference to prove its a terrorist organisation as seen in this edit. I don't know why is there a discussion to this obvious edit? Admins please correct me if I am wrong.
- @Valereee, Yes I read about 1RR and 0RR revert rules in Misplaced Pages:Edit warring#What edit warring is#Other revert rules. I now understand the importance of raising the topic on talk page whenever a consensus is needed. Thank You ! PerspicazHistorian (talk) 07:16, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, I will commit to that. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 13:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC) Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section. Seraphimblade 13:19, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- At that time I was new to how AFD discussions worked. Later on when Satish R. Devane was marked for deletion, I respected the consensus by not interfering in it. The article was later deleted. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 11:54, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- Hi @Doug Weller , I just checked your user page. You have 16 years (I am 19) of experience on wiki, you must be right about me. I agree that my start on Misplaced Pages has been horrible, but I am learning a lot from you all. I promise that I will do better, get more neutral here and contribute to the platform to my best. Please don't block me.
- P.S.- I don't know If I will be blocked or what , according to this enforcement rules, I just want to personally wish good luck to you for your ongoing cancer treatments, You will surely win this battle of Life. Regards. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 12:23, 21 December 2024 (UTC)Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section.Valereee (talk) 15:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by LukeEmily
PerspicazHistorian also violated WP:BRD by engaging in an edit war with Ratnahastin who reverted his edits and restored an article to a stable version by admin. Also, I want to assume good faith but it is surprising that PerspicazHistorian claims that he did not know the three revert rule given that he has more than 800 edits.LukeEmily (talk)
Statement by Doug Weller
I'm involved so just commenting. I don't think this editor is competent. I had to give them a community sanction caste warning as they were making a mess of castes. See this earlier version of their talk page.]https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:PerspicazHistorian&oldid=1262289249] and User:Deb's comment that "It was very unwise of you to keep moving Draft:Satish R. Devane to article space when it has not passed review. As a direct result of your actions, a deletion discussion is taking place, and when this is complete and the article is deleted, you will be prevented from recreating it. Deb (talk) 14:44, 4 December 2024 (UTC)" There have also been copyright issues. I strongly support a topic ban. Doug Weller talk 11:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- I won't be involved in the decision. No more treatments for me, just coast until... Doug Weller talk 12:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
Result concerning PerspicazHistorian
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
PerspicazHistorian, can you explain your understanding of WP:edit warring and the WP:3RR rule? I'd like you to read thoroughly enough to also explain wny someone may be edit warring even if they aren't breaking 3RR. Valereee (talk) 21:58, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- @PerspicazHistorian, that explanation of edit warring is a bit wanting. An edit war is when two or more editors revert content additions/removals repeatedly. Even a second reversion by the same editor can be considered edit warring. Best practice -- and what I highly recommend, especially for any inexperienced editor -- is the first time someone reverts an edit of yours, go to the talk page, open a section, ping the editor who reverted you, and discuss. Do you think you can commit to that?
- Re: your question on why your "obvious edit" was reverted: we don't deal with content issues here, only with behavior issues, but from a very quick look, the source is 50 years old, and using a list headed "TERRORIST ORGANISATIONS LISTED IN THE FIRST SCHEDULE OF THE UNLAWFUL ACTIVITIES (PREVENTION) ACT, 1967" that includes a certain organization as a source that the organization should be described as a terrorist organization is WP:ORIGINAL RESEARCH; in their revert NXcrypto provided an edit summary of "Not a reliable source for such a contentious label. See WP:LABEL." Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here. Valereee (talk) 11:28, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
Walter Tau
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Walter Tau
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Bobby Cohn (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 20:51, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Walter Tau (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Eastern Europe#Final decision
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 4 December 2024 Creation (and subsequent editing and AfC submission) of Draft:Maternity capital. See it's page history, there's no need to supply the entirety of the diffs here.
- For context on how this subject falls under the purview, see the context given by the news article as shared on the talk page: Russia using adoption of Ukranian children during the Russo-Ukranian war. Then note how this state program directly discusses adoption support, which was adapted by Putin following the start of the war. A citation given in the draft article. The Google translated version specifically notes the changes "At the same time, residents of the new regions will receive maternity capital regardless of the basis and timing of their acquisition of Russian citizenship" (emphasis mine).
- This draft, as it is written, is extremely promotional in areas and could basically be hosted on a state-sponsored website. Given the context, I believe this falls under the topic ban.
References
- Bruce, Camdyn (14 December 2022). "Ukrainian official rips Russia for 'kidnapping' more than 13,000 children". The Hill.
- "Путин подписал закон, уточняющий условия выплаты материнского капитала" . interfax.ru.
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- 26 November 2024 Notice given by Rosguill (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) that they were now subject to an arbitration enforcement sanction
- 5 December 2024 Blocked by Swatjester (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) for violating the sanction based on the edits to a project page.
- If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
- Has been made aware, see the diffs in the above section.
- Alerted about contentious topics as it applies to this specific draft, on 4 December 2024 by Asilvering (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA), given a warning about this specific draft and how it falls under the above purview.
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
It has been repeatedly pointed out to Walter Tau that they are skirting the line of the their topic ban by specifically not mentioning the "elephant in the room", see the diff by Asilvering above. They have also repeatedly chosen to ignore advice that they stop editing in the subject area and have repeatedly claimed to fail to see how their editing is problematic. As such, I have opened this discussion here so as to get an answer for Walter Tau on their editing, see "Also, since you mentioned a "topic ban", I would appreciate, if you provide a reference to it, as well as explain how it relates to this article Materniy Capital." They claim to continuously be unaware of the ban, see also their talk page discussions.
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Notified 24 December 2024.
Discussion concerning Walter Tau
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Walter Tau
I feel, that the decision by Boby Cohn regarding my draft https://en.wikipedia.org/Draft:Maternity_capital, is "arbitrary and capriciuos" to use US legal terms : ], for the following reasons:
1) nowhere my draft mentions the words "Ukraine" or "Ukrainian".
2) this draft ] is a translation of the original Russian wiki- article : https://ru.wikipedia.org/%D0%9C%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BB . I have heard the argument, that different languages in Misplaced Pages use different standards for articles' notability etc. Can someone please provide a web-link to Misplaced Pages rules, that actually confirms, that different standards for different languages is the currently accepted policy. I have been unable to find such statement.
3) In fact, my draft focuses mostly on the policies before 24 February 2022, i.e. before full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine.
4) Please correct me, if I am wrong, by it seems that Boby Cohn's only argument of my ban violation is the following statement in my draft of Maternity Capital. "Residents of new regions are paid maternity capital regardless of the time and basis for obtaining Russian citizenship." In my defense: I did not write that statement- it is a Google translation from the Russian wiki, actually a small part of the translated text. And with all honesty, when I was reading the translated text, it did not cross my mind, that someone may interpret so broadly. Also, this sentence-in-question does not really add much to the main subject to the article, and I do not object to its deletion.
5) Considering, that a) I did not write, but only translated the text-in-question; b) the relevance to the text-in-question to my topic ban is not apparent, particularly in the larger context of the whole article; c) I do not object deleting the text-in-question from the draft; may I suggest changing the draft to fix this controversy?
6) If there are other controversial sections/sentences in my translated draft, it may be better if someone re-writes them. Most wiki-readers, can agree with a statement, that this draft ] may not reach an "Article of the Day" status, but it has a value as a stand-alone article as well as a source of references (more-to-be-added). Walter Tau (talk) 13:45, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
I can see now, why some editors consider the translated addition, that I made, a violation of my ban on editing Russia-Ukraine topic. It was not my intention. I fact, I agree with the deletion of the questionable sentence "Residents of new regions are paid maternity capital regardless of the time and basis for obtaining Russian citizenship.". At the same time, I would like to keep the rest of draft, so that myself and other keep working on getting it published. Do I understand correctly, that the notability of this topic is not being questioned?
Statement by TylerBurden
Walter Tau doesn't seem to think they have done anything wrong on Misplaced Pages, so it's honestly not surprising to see them continuing to push the limit despite the sanctions they have received. At some point you have to wonder if there is a foundational WP:COMPETENCE or trolling (or a combination of both) issue. Either way, yes they are clearly violating their topic ban by writing about the Russian kidnapping of Ukrainian children from the war, because that is what this whole ″adoption″ thing is. --TylerBurden (talk) 17:22, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by (username)
Result concerning Walter Tau
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- Sidestepping for now the question of whether simply not mentioning anything conflict-related would have been enough to avoid a TBAN violation, the references to "new regions" make this a violation much more straightforwardly. Justice is blind but not stupid. Walter, I think we're going to need to see recognition from you that this was a TBAN violation, if we're going to find a good path forward here. I'd also like to know who you are referring to when you reference other editors working on the draft? Auric has made some gnomish edits but you appear to be the only substantive editor. And why are you implying, on Bobby's talk, that y'all have been corresponding by email, when he denies that? -- Tamzin (they|xe|🤷) 22:29, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- I'll be direct: I think Walter knows what he is doing and has no intention of abiding by his TBAN, even when it was exhaustively explained to him, and I don't think we should be wasting further time here when we're almost certainly going to be right back here again within a few weeks. ⇒SWATJester 05:29, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
- Back off a one week block for violating the topic ban, and already violating it again? (The "new regions" material is unquestionably a violation.) It seems that Walter Tau is either unwilling or unable to abide by the restriction, and does not, even after explanation, understand any of the issues here (or even understand something so simple as that different language Wikipedias are independent from one another and each have their own policies and practices). Given that, I don't see anything to be done here except to indef. Seraphimblade 17:45, 25 December 2024 (UTC)