| Revision as of 03:38, 19 December 2002 editJtdirl (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users24,275 editsm A Real Republican← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 12:23, 26 December 2024 edit undoLowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs)Bots, Template editors2,293,095 editsm Archiving 2 discussion(s) to Talk:Provisional Irish Republican Army/Archive 13) (bot |
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"PIRA", pronounced "pye-ra" is an abbreviation used mostly by the British in Ulster. In reality it is not even used as an abbreviation but "pye-ra" is British Army-talk for the Provisionals. |
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Jimmerc |
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When has the IRA ever targeted civilians, it was always legitimate targets ( there have been SOME exceptions, though) |
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{{tmbox|type=content|text=There is a clear guideline on Misplaced Pages about the use of the word '''Terrorism'''. Please read it before editing: ].}} |
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== Shanahan citation == |
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When Jimmerc says that the PIRA is an 'abbreviation used mostly by the British in Ulster' he should get his facts right. The Provisional IRA is called the PIRA by the |
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* Irish government in documents; |
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* by nationalist leaders north and south; |
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* by the Northern-Irish unionists; |
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* by the British government; |
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* by much of the media |
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I can't edit the article since I don't have a user, but I just wanted to draw attention to a problem in a source cited in support of the claim that "Following partition, Northern Ireland became a de facto one-party state governed by the Ulster Unionist Party in the Parliament of Northern Ireland, in which Catholics were viewed as second-class citizens." The footnote cites p. 12 of Timothy Shanahan's book "The Provisional Irish Republican Army and the Morality of Terrorism". On that page, however, the author describes the "Standard Republican Narrative" of which he says that "I will not argue that these myths are false in all respects, but rather that they contain partial-truths at best and that the reality is considerably more complicated" (p. 11). |
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In other words, Jimmerc is speaking pure cobblers. And who, by the way, are the 'British in Ulster'? The protestant community? The British government? Or just anyone who doesn't agree with the PIRA and Sinn Féin? And by the way, Ulster is a geographic unit. It is not a state. The state's name is Northern Ireland. The state in which Sinn Féin sits in government (or will do again when the PIRA FINALLY gets around to fully decomissioning, which under the Belfast Agreement it is supposed to have FINISHED 2 years ago. |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 11 March 2024 == |
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As to the 'When has the IRA ever targeted civilians, it was always legitimate targets ( there have been SOME exceptions, though)' line, I presume that someone is being ironic or sarcastic there. Or does someone actually think that the children murdered in Warrington, the woman watching a Remembrance Day wreath-laying in Enniskillen, the people sitting in a restaurant who were burned to death by IRA bombs, the young community policeman having a pint in a gay pub, an elderly former Speaker of the Northern Ireland parliament and his son (both butchered) and scores of members of Án Garda Siochána like Frank Hand and Gerry McCabe were legitimate targets? Damn all people in Ireland think that. In fact most people have no time for the PIRA and it makes their skin crawl that they (and their murdering twins in the UDA/UFF etc) are out of prison. But we are stomaching it because it is part of the Belfast Agreement and we all live in hope that they have learned their lesson. Which is why, at its recent 'highpoint' in the Republic of Ireland's general election, managed to win a massive FIVE seats out of 166. Wooopee! Some breakthrough. Only seventy-eight seats to go and you might actually form a government, lads! And at the rate of gaining five seats an election, that's 14 elections. Yeah, Sinn Féin finally winning government in the Republic of Ireland in or around 2070. |
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{{Edit semi-protected|Provisional Irish Republican Army|answered=yes}} |
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In other words, don't kid yourself that the PIRA ran a 'legitimate war', had 'legitimate' that the PIRA 'spoke' for the 'oppressed people of Ireland' or that Sinn Féin 'represents' Ireland. Padraig Pearse never advocated murdering children, women honouring war dead, members of Ireland's police-force, a gay policeman having a pint, or burning people to death in restaurants. And he would be ashamed that some people claim his authority for brutally slaughtering people they way the PIRA did for years. (And the way dumb americans were foolish enough to give these guys money and support.) |
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Add the "anti-imperialist organization" tag ] (]) 01:27, 11 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:] '''Not done:'''<!-- Template:ESp --> The article makes no mention of the IRA having an anti-imperialist stance. Although sources appear to exist that could support such a claim in the article, I also doubt that it would be considered a ]; it might be an aspect of their motivations, but it's probably far from being their central ideology. ] (]) 10:49, 11 March 2024 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 6 July 2024 == |
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But at least Sinn Féin today has real leaders of substance who are trying to solve, not create, divisions, people like Adams, McGuinness and Alex Maskey, the deeply impressive Lord Mayor of Belfast. |
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{{edit semi-protected|Provisional Irish Republican Army|answered=yes}} |
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] 03:38 Dec 19, 2002 (UTC) (A REAL republican whose grand-uncle fought for the REAL republic in the REAL Irish War of Independence.) |
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The provisional IRA was NOT a “terrorist organisation,” it was the only defence Irish Catholic people had against the RUC and British Army, who were placing these innocent people in internment centres without crime or without trial simply for being Irish. ] (]) 19:37, 6 July 2024 (UTC) |
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] '''Not done for now:''' please establish a ] for this alteration ''']''' using the {{Tlx|Edit semi-protected}} template.<!-- Template:ESp --> ] (]) 17:36, 10 July 2024 (UTC) |
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== "Officially known as"? == |
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What does this phrase mean? Does it mean "self-described as"? In fact they self-described as "Óglaigh na hÉireann" (which does not translate as "Irish Republican Army" either but as "younglings of Ireland" or more idiomatically "Irish volunteers", IRA merely being a euphemism of no status from 1919 onwards). And that is also the title of the Irish Defence Forces, which surely have a higher claim on "officially" etc. ] (]) 11:35, 26 November 2024 (UTC) |
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:See the history section about their origins. <span style="border:1px solid green; padding:0 2px">] ]</span> 12:36, 26 November 2024 (UTC) |
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::That has nothing to do with the "officially known as" though - "officially" by what? What office or officer calls them this? ] (]) 20:07, 26 November 2024 (UTC) |
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== First PIRA public statement == |
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The article states, "The Provisional IRA issued their first public statement on 28 December 1969." The citation is to a secondary source. Is this statement (or other PIRA statements) online anywhere? The CAIN website has an archive of IRA statements but it's focused on the period after 1994. I'm really asking out of personal curiousity but this would probably be of interest to other readers. ] (]) 21:13, 25 December 2024 (UTC) |
I can't edit the article since I don't have a user, but I just wanted to draw attention to a problem in a source cited in support of the claim that "Following partition, Northern Ireland became a de facto one-party state governed by the Ulster Unionist Party in the Parliament of Northern Ireland, in which Catholics were viewed as second-class citizens." The footnote cites p. 12 of Timothy Shanahan's book "The Provisional Irish Republican Army and the Morality of Terrorism". On that page, however, the author describes the "Standard Republican Narrative" of which he says that "I will not argue that these myths are false in all respects, but rather that they contain partial-truths at best and that the reality is considerably more complicated" (p. 11).
The provisional IRA was NOT a “terrorist organisation,” it was the only defence Irish Catholic people had against the RUC and British Army, who were placing these innocent people in internment centres without crime or without trial simply for being Irish. Cárthach Leahy (talk) 19:37, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
What does this phrase mean? Does it mean "self-described as"? In fact they self-described as "Óglaigh na hÉireann" (which does not translate as "Irish Republican Army" either but as "younglings of Ireland" or more idiomatically "Irish volunteers", IRA merely being a euphemism of no status from 1919 onwards). And that is also the title of the Irish Defence Forces, which surely have a higher claim on "officially" etc. 185.60.76.112 (talk) 11:35, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
The article states, "The Provisional IRA issued their first public statement on 28 December 1969." The citation is to a secondary source. Is this statement (or other PIRA statements) online anywhere? The CAIN website has an archive of IRA statements but it's focused on the period after 1994. I'm really asking out of personal curiousity but this would probably be of interest to other readers. Prezbo (talk) 21:13, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Referencing and citation: criterion met.svg)
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Not done: The article makes no mention of the IRA having an anti-imperialist stance. Although sources appear to exist that could support such a claim in the article, I also doubt that it would be considered a WP:DEFCAT; it might be an aspect of their motivations, but it's probably far from being their central ideology. Liu1126 (talk) 10:49, 11 March 2024 (UTC)