Talk:Church of Scientology: Difference between revisions

Browse history interactively ← Previous editContent deleted Content addedVisual WikitextInline

Revision as of 19:21, 4 December 2012 editNestleNW911 (talk \| contribs)382 edits →Missionary Activities ← Previous edit		Latest revision as of 08:31, 23 June 2024 edit undoGrorp (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users12,439 edits →top
(219 intermediate revisions by 73 users not shown)
Line 1:		Line 1:
		⚫	{{Talk header}}
		⚫	{{Not a forum\|Church of Scientology, or anything not directly related to improving the ]}}
		⚫	{{WikiProject banner shell\|class=B\|1=
			{{WikiProject Scientology\|importance=Top}}
		⚫	{{WikiProject Skepticism\|importance=Mid}}
		⚫	{{WikiProject Religion\|importance=Mid\|NRM=yes\|NRMImp=High}}
		⚫	{{WikiProject California\|importance=low\|la=yes\|inland-empire=yes\|inland-empire-importance=low\|la-importance=low}}
		⚫	}}
	{{User:MiszaBot/config		{{User:MiszaBot/config
	\|maxarchivesize = ~~250K~~		\|maxarchivesize = 150K
	\|counter = 1		\|counter = 3
	\|minthreadsleft = 1		\|minthreadsleft = 4
			\|minthreadstoarchive = 1
	\|algo = old(90d)		\|algo = old(90d)
	\|archive = Talk:Church of Scientology/Archive %(counter)d		\|archive = Talk:Church of Scientology/Archive %(counter)d
	}}		}}
			{{US English}}
	{\| class="messagebox {{#ifeq:{{NAMESPACE}}\|Talk\|standard-talk\|standard}}"
			{{Annual Readership}}
	\| style="width: 50px" \| ]

	\| '''The ] has placed all Scientology-related articles on ]''' (see ]). Editors making disruptive edits may be ] by an administrator from this and related articles, or other reasonably related pages.<includeonly>]</includeonly>
			== Long footers/captions of pictures ==
	\|}

⚫	{{~~notaforum~~\|Church of Scientology, or anything not directly related to improving the ]}}
			Long texts under pictures can stretch the picture frame sideways, much broader than actual pictures, and in some cases so much that on some monitors almost no text can be flowed by it's side.
⚫	{{~~talk~~ header}}

	{{WikiProjectBannerShell\|1=
			I have tested putting line breaks <nowiki></br></nowiki> on suitable places in those lines and because in preview it reclaimed the wasted monitor space, published them.
⚫	{{WikiProject ~~Scientology~~\|class=B\|~~importance~~=~~Top}}~~

⚫	{{~~Rational~~ Skepticism~~\|class=B~~\|importance=Mid}}
			] reverted one of those with comment
⚫	{{~~WPReligion\|class=B~~\|importance=Mid\|NRM=yes\|NRMImp=High}}
			Revert caption changes. they looked good on a cell phone but awful on a computer web browser. long captions automatically wrap
⚫	{{WikiProject California~~\|class=B~~\|importance=low\|la=yes\|inland-empire=yes\|inland-empire-importance=low\|la-importance=low}}
⚫	}}
	{{onlinesource\|year=2004\|section=July 2004 (21 articles)
	\|title=Miroljub Labus Scientologist.
	\|org=Nacional
	\|date=July 28, 2004
	\|url=http://www.inter-nacional.com/}}

			It seems my solution was not suitable for every configuration, but at the same time it seems his remark is not true in all environments. I worked on comp screen; before my change (and after revert) in my case long captions didn't. (and don't) automatically revert. It seems the problem (no automatical varp for long captions), which I fudged by inserting newline tags, might be environment (e.g. browser, and maybe even version) dependant. I used and older version of firefox at the time.
	== Member's Health and Safety ==

			And you (Grorp) seem to have been right: in Opera on the same comp long captions do seem to get automatically warped, so I am reverting my other recent patchy picture caption changes.
	Section name “Members’ Health and Safety” is misleading and false. This is a case of one Scientologist among many, and should not be taken as a determinant of the welfare of the rest of the congregation. I propose that this section be moved and transfered reference to controversies, or have section removed altogether as it does not belong to the article. Or, mention Lisa McPherson in controversies while hot linking to article. Thoughts?] (]) 00:41, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
			:edit: he already reverted all of them before I could. In Firefox 115.4.0esr {{em\|on this comp long picture captions are not automatically warped}}, and are again looking awful on this version of this computer web browser. When I am at some other comp I'll see if it's just this version or FF in general.

		⚫	] (]) 16:49, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
	Any takers on this? This is a pivotal part of the article and should be positioned properly. As it is, it is very misleading does not follow Misplaced Pages's NPOV policy. This event should be situated under the proper heading so as not to give the false impression that this embodies the health and safety of all members of the Church of Scientology.] (]) 21:24, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
	:I don't agree that it's misleading. Death might not the usual outcome, but it illustrates risks that go with participation in some key activities of the Church of Scientology -- so I think it's fine as it is. ] (]) 16:22, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
	::Surprised to see you here. I agree with you and the section is important. Although it should have a better intro similar to what you wrote. Something like, "Some key activities of the Church of Scientology carry risks for members, especially members with mental illness" or "The Church of Scientology's rejection of psychiatry means that some key activities carry risks for members". What do you think? ] (]) 20:17, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
	:::I just made some changes to the paragraph, let me know what you think. ] (]) 18:47, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

			: I checked 3 computer browsers (Firefox, Edge & Brave) looking at the current version (wrapping captions) and your version with the line-breaks in them. I tried it logged in and logged out, and tried two Misplaced Pages skins: Vector 2022 (default) and Vector legacy 2010 (my preference). The non-line-break version wraps correctly in all cases. <span style="text-shadow:#000 0em 0em 1em">]</span> 18:42, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
	== Scientology in Israel ==

			== Unused sources from "Works cited" section ==
	I have reverted the edit by "Unindicted Co-conspirator" that removes the information about Scientology Organizations in Israel. This information is well-sourced and enriches the information in this section and therefore belongs there. The editor did not give sufficient explanation to make this deletion - it seems to be arbitrary and whimsical. This removal also works against NPOV - the remaining information only represents one side of the story of Scientology in Israel. The reinstated information offers a more wholistic picture.] (]) 18:25, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

			All of the sources mentioned in the "Works cited" section are not actually referenced in the article itself. I'm putting them here in case anyone needs to use or restore them. I'm leaving one, Lamont 1986, in "Further reading" because it is focused on the organization(s) and most closely matches the subject material.
	== Missionary Activities ==

			* {{Cite book \|last1=Corydon \|first1=Bent \|last2=Hubbard \|first2=L. Ron Jr. \|author-link2=Ronald DeWolf \|year=1987 \|title=L. Ron Hubbard: Messiah Or Madman? \|place=New Jersey \|publisher=Lyle Stuart \|isbn=0-8184-0444-2 \|oclc=16130709 \|title-link=L. Ron Hubbard: Messiah Or Madman? }}
	Added more information to this section.] (]) 22:51, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
			* {{Cite book \|last=Lamont \|first=Stewart \|year=1986 \|title=Religion Inc.: The Church of Scientology \|place=London \|publisher=Harrap \|isbn=0-245-54334-1 \|oclc=23079677 \|title-link=Religion Inc. }}
	:You didn't "add information" -- you '''copied''' information from the source. I have reverted this per ]. ] (]) 00:05, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
			* {{cite book \|last=Melton \|first=J. Gordon \|author-link=J. Gordon Melton \|title=The Church of Scientology \|publisher=Signature Press \|year=2000 \|location=Salt Lake City \|isbn=978-1-56085-139-4 \|url=https://archive.org/details/churchofscientol00meltrich/}}
			* {{Cite book \|last=Partridge \|first=Christopher Hugh \|title=UFO Religions \|publisher=Routledge \|year=2003 \|isbn=0-415-26324-7 \|oclc=51342721}}
			* {{Cite book \|last1=Savino \|first1=John \|first2=Marie D. \|last2=Jones \|title=Supervolcano: The Catastrophic Event That Changed the Course of Human History \|publisher=Career Press \|year=2007 \|isbn=978-1-56414-953-4 \|oclc=123539673 \|url-access=registration \|url=https://archive.org/details/supervolcanocata0000savi }}

			<span style="text-shadow:#000 0em 0em 1em">]</span> 06:27, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
	Hello Nomoskedasticity, apologies for this. I was under the impression that one could include information directly from the source as long as there is a Misplaced Pages citation. I have rewritten the text, please review and comment on whether it is okay to add.

			== German “Sekte” mistranslated as “sect”; false friend; should be “cult” ==
	According to Jacob Neusner, under the guidance of L. Ron Hubbard, Scientology developed programs that aimed to address important social issues in the early 1970’s. These programs focused attention on providing drug education and fighting illiteracy, criminal behavior and learning disabilities. The programs, which operate under the banner of Association for Better Living and Education (ABLE), have expanded and proven effective. The specific organizations that operate in a similar way are Narconon, Criminon and Applied Scholastics.

			Please change the word “sect” in the top summary in the sentence of how the German Government defines COS to “cult”.
⚫	~~Thanks.~~] (]) 20:10, 29 November ~~2012~~ (UTC)
	:The passage is not copied, at least. But I'm not sure this is an NPOV presentation of these programs. Our article on ] makes for some interesting reading, and I think we'd need a presentation here that is more consistent with what is in that article. ] (]) 15:01, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

			This is a false friend: the German word “Sekte” is translated as “cult”, not “sect”. “Sect” means something different in English (as in a subgroup, an offshoot of smth.) - the German gov. actually sees COS as a full on “cult” (i.e. fanatic high-control-group working against liberal-democratic fundamental order). ] (]) 16:45, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
	Nomo, how is this information not NPOV? It is objective, encyclopedic information and I fail to see why you would see it otherwise. The language is not promotional in any way.] (]) 19:21, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

			== Semi-protected edit request on 7 June 2024 ==
	== Controversy section ==

			{{Edit semi-protected\|Church of Scientology\|answered=yes}}
	I have added a clarifying piece of information to the "Controversy" section sourced from Jacob Neusner. I have paraphrased his ideas and quoted him when necessary, while attributing the writing explicitly in the text. Thank you for the early correction.] (]) 19:20, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
			Thomas Cruise should be added to the Celebrity Section to bring awareness on powerful people who are associated with the church. ] (]) 16:23, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
			:] '''Not done:'''<!-- Template:ESp --> There's already a main article at ], which does mention Tom Cruise. Per ], it's unnecessary to replicate all the contents of the article in this section. ] (]) 16:27, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 08:31, 23 June 2024

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Church of Scientology article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2, 3Auto-archiving period: 3 months

This page is not a forum for general discussion about Church of Scientology, or anything not directly related to improving the Misplaced Pages article. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Church of Scientology, or anything not directly related to improving the Misplaced Pages article at the Reference desk.

This article is rated B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Scientology Top‑importance

	This article is supported by WikiProject Scientology, a collaborative effort to help develop and improve Misplaced Pages's coverage of Scientology. The aim is to write neutral and well-referenced articles on Scientology-related topics. See WikiProject Scientology and Misplaced Pages:Contributing FAQ.ScientologyWikipedia:WikiProject ScientologyTemplate:WikiProject ScientologyScientology
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

Skepticism Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Skepticism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of science, pseudoscience, pseudohistory and skepticism related articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SkepticismWikipedia:WikiProject SkepticismTemplate:WikiProject SkepticismSkepticism
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Religion: New religious movements Mid‑importance

	Religion portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Religion, a project to improve Misplaced Pages's articles on Religion-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details.ReligionWikipedia:WikiProject ReligionTemplate:WikiProject ReligionReligion
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by New religious movements work group (assessed as High-importance).

California: Inland Empire / Los Angeles Low‑importance

	California portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject California, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of California on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CaliforniaWikipedia:WikiProject CaliforniaTemplate:WikiProject CaliforniaCalifornia
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by Inland Empire task force (assessed as Low-importance).
	Greater Los Angeles portal This article is supported by Los Angeles area task force (assessed as Low-importance).

This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

Long footers/captions of pictures

Long texts under pictures can stretch the picture frame sideways, much broader than actual pictures, and in some cases so much that on some monitors almost no text can be flowed by it's side.

I have tested putting line breaks </br> on suitable places in those lines and because in preview it reclaimed the wasted monitor space, published them.

User: Grorp reverted one of those with comment

Revert caption changes. they looked good on a cell phone but awful on a computer web browser. long captions automatically wrap

It seems my solution was not suitable for every configuration, but at the same time it seems his remark is not true in all environments. I worked on comp screen; before my change (and after revert) in my case long captions didn't. (and don't) automatically revert. It seems the problem (no automatical varp for long captions), which I fudged by inserting newline tags, might be environment (e.g. browser, and maybe even version) dependant. I used and older version of firefox at the time.

And you (Grorp) seem to have been right: in Opera on the same comp long captions do seem to get automatically warped, so I am reverting my other recent patchy picture caption changes.

edit: he already reverted all of them before I could. In Firefox 115.4.0esr on this comp long picture captions are not automatically warped, and are again looking awful on this version of this computer web browser. When I am at some other comp I'll see if it's just this version or FF in general.

Marjan Tomki SI (talk) 16:49, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

I checked 3 computer browsers (Firefox, Edge & Brave) looking at the current version (wrapping captions) and your version with the line-breaks in them. I tried it logged in and logged out, and tried two Misplaced Pages skins: Vector 2022 (default) and Vector legacy 2010 (my preference). The non-line-break version wraps correctly in all cases. ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 18:42, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

Unused sources from "Works cited" section

All of the sources mentioned in the "Works cited" section are not actually referenced in the article itself. I'm putting them here in case anyone needs to use or restore them. I'm leaving one, Lamont 1986, in "Further reading" because it is focused on the organization(s) and most closely matches the subject material.

Corydon, Bent; Hubbard, L. Ron Jr. (1987). L. Ron Hubbard: Messiah Or Madman?. New Jersey: Lyle Stuart. ISBN 0-8184-0444-2. OCLC 16130709.
Lamont, Stewart (1986). Religion Inc.: The Church of Scientology. London: Harrap. ISBN 0-245-54334-1. OCLC 23079677.
Melton, J. Gordon (2000). The Church of Scientology. Salt Lake City: Signature Press. ISBN 978-1-56085-139-4.
Partridge, Christopher Hugh (2003). UFO Religions. Routledge. ISBN 0-415-26324-7. OCLC 51342721.
Savino, John; Jones, Marie D. (2007). Supervolcano: The Catastrophic Event That Changed the Course of Human History. Career Press. ISBN 978-1-56414-953-4. OCLC 123539673.

▶ I am Grorp ◀ 06:27, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

German “Sekte” mistranslated as “sect”; false friend; should be “cult”

Please change the word “sect” in the top summary in the sentence of how the German Government defines COS to “cult”.

This is a false friend: the German word “Sekte” is translated as “cult”, not “sect”. “Sect” means something different in English (as in a subgroup, an offshoot of smth.) - the German gov. actually sees COS as a full on “cult” (i.e. fanatic high-control-group working against liberal-democratic fundamental order). 2A0C:D242:3880:B500:89A3:75E8:92EE:5839 (talk) 16:45, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 June 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Thomas Cruise should be added to the Celebrity Section to bring awareness on powerful people who are associated with the church. 205.215.209.250 (talk) 16:23, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Not done: There's already a main article at Scientology and celebrities, which does mention Tom Cruise. Per WP:SUMMARY, it's unnecessary to replicate all the contents of the article in this section. Liu1126 (talk) 16:27, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Categories: