| Revision as of 14:04, 26 December 2012 edit94.46.15.18 (talk)No edit summary← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 21:47, 31 December 2024 edit undoPantarch (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users560 edits →Emblem: ReplyTag: Reply |
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== Bias. == |
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I genuinely beleive that this article heavilly slanted in the Greco-Cypriot's point of view. When I attempted to make the article more neutral, my edits were deleted (by a Greek, incidently). And, further-more, I was treated with patronization, and not with the dignity & respect a fellow Misplaced Pages deserves. Misplaced Pages clearly states that its articles must be unbiased, & Misplaced Pages is not a battleground, nor is it a propaganda journal. |
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For instance: |
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- The article refers to the Republic of Cyprus as an "island nation", it is ''clearly'' no-more an island nation than Éire is. |
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- The flag presented depicts the island of Cyprus in it, yet surely the 2004 neutral flag would be more appropriate? |
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- The territory shown includes the land occupied by the RoC, TRNC, UN zone, & the UK bases; this does not constitute the true territory of the RoC. |
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- The style of the article is not as though it was presenting the Republic of Cyprus as viewpoint/perspective, as it should; but as a fact, which it should not do. |
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Also, unrelatedly, the ethnicity descritions are incorrect: a Greek is, & only is, a national of the Hellenic Republic; & the Turkish are those, & only those, who are nations of Turkey. To describe one says they are Greco, & Turk, respectively. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> |
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I agree with the above. No real mention of EOKA's genocide of Turkish Cypriot villages in the South. Very slanted to the Greek perspective. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 10:10, 4 September 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:Popkid2002uk, you are free to discuss and edit the article. Create new sections on this talk page so the editors can address your concerns. ] (]) 11:46, 4 September 2012 (UTC) |
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:: I also think that we should include massacres committed by EOKA B. We cannot deny the truth about the atrocities committed by both sides during the war and it would be unbiased if we do so. But I disagree with the usage of proposed 2004 flag, as this was rejected anyway. The use of word 'island nation' also is a set thing. Cyprus has been referred to as 'Island nation' due to political reasons as it is accepted by international community that the Republic of Cyprus represent the entire island, therefore (even if not de facto correct) is an appropriate usage. In addition, territories shown on this page do clearly show the bases and territories not under effective control of the Republic (occupied north is shown with lighter green!). Furthermore, ethnicity is shown correctly. I rather prefer it to be called Turkish Cypriot and Greek Cypriot than just Greek or Turkish (that would also be politically biased). You can change anything you want but please do not make this article a battleground and keep editing and deleting everything the way you like it to be. ] (]) 21:07, 20 November 2012 (UTC) |
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== Recent editing of images == |
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I am very suspicious that one of the recent series of image edits is being done by one individual using more than one IP. I don't have the capability to investigate but I hope somebody else can. Thanks. — ] (]) 08:13, 5 September 2012 (UTC) |
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:if someone changes a photo that you do not like you always have to do everything possible to eliminate the other? nice wikipedia, I'm in charge and that's it, good .... keep it up ...--] (]) 08:19, 5 September 2012 (UTC) |
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== Topographic map of Cyprus == |
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Hello, I have created a ] in SVG format. I have used public data but sometimes there are some inconsistencies. Would it be possible for someone to check if it is correct? Thanks --] (]) 21:49, 5 November 2012 (UTC) |
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== Area figure == |
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clarified that the area given of 9,251 sqkm 'Includes Northern Cyprus, the UN buffer zone, and Akrotiri and Dhekelia'. This answers ]. However, I have some further points: |
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# what is the reference for the assertion that the area is of the island rather than the state? Given the confusion in the sources, it is not sufficient to rely on a single source giving a single figure with no context; there should hopefully be a reliable source which gives '''both''' the island '''and''' the state areas at the same time. |
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# can the infobox also include the state area? That would be a better match for the area_rank statistic, which as it stands is meaningless. |
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# the 2011 census figure excluded Northern Cyprus. What about the buffer zone and sovereign bases? ]<sup>(])</sup> 19:33, 18 November 2012 (UTC) |
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:::I already divided the area and populations into RoC, North and British bases but I cannot keep up with people constantly changing the information regarding their own political views. So I just gave up really. But it is true that if RoC claims politically that north belongs to the Republic, we should have information for the whole island, then divide it down to de facto information about south and north. Before people included north in the area but completely refused to include the northern population which I think is politically motivated. There should be detailed information regarding north, but if I do it, it will be changed soon ] (]) 13:28, 20 November 2012 (UTC) |
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::::In my experience, well-referenced statistics are less prone to edit-wars than unreferenced info or non-statistical, more "subjective" info. I don't really care which figure(s) get priority in the infobox, as all of them are available somewhere, with references. Maybe the infobox can crosslink to a subsection. |
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::::It's interesting that marks the Turkish-occupied portion but makes no reference to the UK bases (or the UN buffer zone). It's not clear whether they were included in the 2011 census or not, or more generally to what extent the statistical service regards them as falling within its remit. ]<sup>(])</sup> 15:32, 20 November 2012 (UTC) |
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:::::As far as I know, because the British bases do not officially make part of the Republic as the independence treaty signed with Britain clearly states that Cyprus is independent except two bases which belong to the UK. Therefore I am not sure if RoC would even count bases in any of its statistics simply because they are not part of the country. They still try to county North simply because it makes an integral part of the Republic even if it had de facto declared independence from Cyprus. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 16:01, 20 November 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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::::::I understand that thinking; however, the map I linked to does not show the bases at all. It might be that the Republic of Cyprus government downplays their existence to some extent, allowing the view to persist that they are leased or temporarily granted to the UK by the Republic, as ], rather than totally external to the Republic. I'm not suggesting that the Republic officially takes such a view, merely that it is less than eager (for whatever reason) to prevent misconceptions. That's just an impression I have, which isn't directly relevant to the article, except that if true it might help explain why statistical breakdowns are hard to track down. ]<sup>(])</sup> 17:17, 20 November 2012 (UTC) |
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:::::::Sorry, I was actually going to point that out too before we had a random power cut. Yes, it is bizarre that bases are shown as Cypriot territory. And that is not the case. I have seen many maps and sources where bases were shown as Cypriot territory and I am sure that the government is fully aware it is not a temporary lease, it is simply given to the UK in the independence treaty. There might be contemporary disagreement in public on that subject but everyone is aware they are British bases. However, also true that due to that attitude, it may be difficult to track down sovereign base populations. As a Cypriot, I have not actually ever heard population in bases being considered as Cypriots. Maybe British sources can point out exact statistics on the bases? ] (]) 20:34, 20 November 2012 (UTC) |
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== Turkish names for Cyprus == |
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== Economy == |
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In case one is asking me for the reason for my recent edits, I added mentions of the Turkish government and that of the TRNC not recognising the internationally recognised government of Cyprus and calling it the "Greek Cypriot Administration of Southern Cyprus" and the "Greek Cypriot Administration" while citing the following sources: |
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The Greek Cypriot economy, in other words the economy of the so-called Republic of Cyprus is bankrupt. This is confirmed by the President who confessed "bailout is a necessary evil". See the here in "]". Let us leave aside fighting on the past of the so-called bi-communal republic and edit the "economy" section of this article to make it reflect the present situation. --] (]) 11:13, 5 December 2012 (UTC) |
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* https://mfa.gov.ct.tr/tr/guney-kibris-rum-yonetiminde-saldiriya-ugrayan-kibris-turk-gencleri-hk/ |
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:. Where are all those editors rushing to compete at editing in ESC final or the Olympic Games or the UNGA Resolution on the State of Palestine? --] (]) 16:20, 6 December 2012 (UTC) |
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* https://www.mfa.gov.tr/kibris-meselesinin-tarihcesi_-bm-muzakerelerinin-baslangici.tr.mfa |
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* https://www.ab.gov.tr/greek-administration-of-southern-cyprus_255_en.html |
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* https://www.mfa.gov.tr/greek-cypriot_s-unilateral-activities-in-the-eastern-mediterranean.en.mfa |
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* https://mfa.gov.ct.tr/regarding-the-20th-anniversary-of-greek-cypriot-administrations-unilateral-and-illegal-membership-of-the-european-union-2/ |
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My edits pertain to the names that the Turkish government and that of the TRNC commonly use to refer to the internationally recognised government of Cyprus and there are no better sources concerning their opinions and names about Cyprus than their own websites. - ] (]) 00:52, 4 October 2024 (UTC) |
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::Never mind, I have found the proper place to add Türkiye's opinions and names for Cyprus with the relevant sources. - ] (]) 01:11, 4 October 2024 (UTC) |
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== Human rights - Edit request == |
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:::Stop edit warring. ] (]) 09:31, 4 October 2024 (UTC) |
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:As per NPOV: WP:UNDUE such edits do not have a place in the article. Turkish opinions are globally fringe. ] (]) 17:30, 28 December 2024 (UTC) |
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::Just to make sure that the point is very, very clear: The Turkish viewpoint is a small sliver of the global viewpoint, and dedicating space to such a small subset of that one specific viewpoint violates NPOV:WP:UNDUE. ] (]) 17:36, 28 December 2024 (UTC) |
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== Emblem == |
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A user recently cleaned human rights and militarization issues from the article. However, the fact that we like Greek Cyprus so much does not change the fact that there is human rights criticism against the Greek Cypriot Administration of South Cyprus. See here the news of ] criticism of the said Administration, at the Greek Cypriot newspaper ] (]) 16:08, 6 December 2012 (UTC) |
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{{ping|Vif12vf}} {{ping|Sgrout01}} this user is right. But can someone remove the white background? ] (]) 22:30, 12 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:Again the same rants against your fellow editors and about the militarisation of that tiny island, especially after the invasion by Turkey. I'm sure it would be preferred by Ankara and its military complex if Cyprus remained unarmed but what can you do. That's life. Even the Davids of today's world can try to defend themselves from the invading and partitioning Goliaths. And what do you think this tiny island, with a population less than that of many cities in Turkey, is going to do with its alleged "militarisation" which you try so hard to advertise? Invade Turkey? Reverse the effects of operation Attila? Please let us know. I mean propaganda can go so far. But you must also use logic and common sense if you want to make it credible and you appear to fail on the latter parts. As far as human rights show me a country in the world where prison overcrowding is not a problem. I'm sure if I cared to look I would find a lot more stuff about Turkey in this department including torture etc. As for the corrupt economy what can I say. Are you sure this is the only country with corruption in its economy? ] <small><sup style="position:relative">]<span style="position:relative;bottom:-2.0ex;left:-5.2ex;*left:-5.5ex">]</span></sup></small> 16:41, 7 December 2012 (UTC) |
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:{{ping|WeaponizingArchitecture}} can you help? ] (]) 22:55, 12 December 2024 (UTC) |
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== Cypriot Costume == |
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::whats up? <span style="color:#D33C3C"><span style="vertical-align:sub;"><span style="vertical-align:sub;line-height:180%"><span style="font-size:180%; vertical-align:sub;">⛿</span></span></span></span> ] | ] 00:40, 13 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:::White background needs to be removed. ] (]) 10:24, 13 December 2024 (UTC) |
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::::{{re|WeaponizingArchitecture}} can you do it? ] (]) 21:48, 14 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::I just got finished with Finals and need to catch up with other requests. Sorry. Ill get to it when possible. <span style="color:#D33C3C"><span style="vertical-align:sub;"><span style="vertical-align:sub;line-height:180%"><span style="font-size:180%; vertical-align:sub;">⛿</span></span></span></span> ] | ] 21:50, 14 December 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::Oh not so urgent. But if you do it thanks already. ] (]) 21:52, 14 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:The version you are talking about is not free; the copyright holder is the Cypriot state. The non-identical but heraldically correct version is the one that should be used in such cases. ] (]) 21:38, 31 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:] We use official ] when governments explicitly releases them into the ] or under some ]. The coat of arms in question was not released under a free license by the Republic of Cyprus. ] (]) 21:47, 31 December 2024 (UTC) |
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== Non-neutrality == |
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Does anyone disagree with creating a sub-section named "Costume" within the "Culture" section regarding traditional Cypriot costume? This could include information about traditional male and female costume, such as the Vraka for the former and the Foustani for the latter. ] (]) 05:59, 12 December 2012 (UTC) |
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The article suffers from non-neutrality that stems from looking at the conflict as a bilateral, or quadrilateral conflict. I ask the editors to zoom out and see that there is a global consensus that the Turkish occupation is illegal, and that the declaration of independence of the occupied territory has been condemned by the United Nations. As per NPOV: WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV one may attribute these statements to the United Nations themselves. Please do not water down the statements, as that is a violation of NPOV: WP:IMPARTIAL and NPOV: WP:UNDUE, as only Turkey wishes to make claims to the contrary. Consider that NPOV: WP:DUE asks that the representation of the viewpoints matches the weight of the ones having the viewpoint, and the United Nations has the collective weight of 192 countries besides Turkey. Thus, as per NPOV: WP:DUE the article should take the position of the United Nations and delegate any Turkish specifications to footnotes. |
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:If this is more important and urgent than the economic crisis (see upstairs, if you have not heard of it) let's do it at once... --] (]) 11:42, 12 December 2012 (UTC) |
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Once again, the United Nations take precedence over Greece, Turkey, Cyprus, or the EU. Please make sure that the article abides by the following UN resolutions: |
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::We don't need everyone focusing on one thing at the same time. I have no interest in writing about the economy of Cyprus as I am not very knowledgeable of it. Indeed I have read news reports about it but I'm in no position to choose information of relevance regarding economics. ] (]) 20:50, 12 December 2012 (UTC) |
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UN Security Council Resolution 186 (1964): Reaffirms the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the Republic of Cyprus over the entire island. |
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== Split the article == |
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UN General Assembly Resolution 3212 (1974): Demands the withdrawal of all foreign military forces from the island, rendering the Turkish occupation globally condemnable. |
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Many things are discussed once and again in WP. No reason not to discuss once more such a logical split request. Cyprus is an island which has two sovereign states and two other sovereign territories on it. The most logical approach should be a split between the island article and the one about the so-called Republic of Cyprus. --] (]) 11:44, 26 December 2012 (UTC) |
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UN Security Council Resolution 541 (1983): Condemns the unilateral declaration of independence, and establishes the lack of legal and political illegitimacy of the TRNC. |
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::I dont see how splitting Cyprus is "logical", other to safeguard a strong Turkish Pov/claim, that Cyprus is not an ]. ] ] 11:51, 26 December 2012 (UTC) |
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UN Security Council Resolution 550 (1984): Condemns attempts to settle any part of Varosha (Famagusta) by anyone other than its lawful inhabitants. |
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I also disagree with E4024. This would only impose the Turkish point of view which is that the Republic of Cyprus does not represent Cyprus as a whole island. Currently the only "so called" state is the so called Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus which in essence is nothing more than an unrecognized puppet state. ] (]) 12:27, 26 December 2012 (UTC) |
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:Dear IP user; your word selection of "puppet state" shows you are ''impartial'' on this issue and approach very objectively to the question. It is very useful to receive input from users who are not engaged with national positions. I would like to hear your opinions on how you see the existence of the two ] ('''sovereign territories''') separated from the rest of the island during the establishment of the Republic of Cyprus... --] (]) 12:45, 26 December 2012 (UTC) |
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UN Security Council Resolution 1251 (1999): Calls for a bicommunal, bizonal federation as a basis for a solution. |
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:Ignoring your sarcasm,let me explain myself: |
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First of all, my wording is not that different from yours .("so-called Republic of Cyprus"). Secondly, a puppet state is a state that is is controlled by a foreign power. As much as the term "Puppet State" sounds not neutral and insulting, the so called Northern Cyprus is a puppet state. Its is solely depended on Turkey. Due to its lack of recognition, splitting the article would impose the Turkish |
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POV (Turkey presents it as an independent legal separate state). The Republic of Cyprus, de jure, represents the whole island of Cyprus and as such it also joined the EU with the Northern part considered as not under the effective control |
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of the Republic of Cyprus. |
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The British sovereign bases have nothing to do with the discussion of splitting the article. If you do care what I believe about them, I believe that a EU member holding land of another one |
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is entirely inappropriate. The big difference is that the sovereign bases are recognized territory of the United Kingdom in contrast with the so-called Northern Cyprus. ] (]) 13:09, 26 December 2012 (UTC) |
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::And as the base areas are recognised as '''sovereign territories''', '''as from the establishment of the "Repuclic''' of Cyprus" the island of Cyprus has never been sovereign on all of the island. Your words on ] I am ignoring for the moment. --] (]) 13:19, 26 December 2012 (UTC) |
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* I think we should open an article about the "island".--] (]) 13:37, 26 December 2012 (UTC) |
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::E4024, this attitude won't get you anywhere. The lack of arguments and your failed efforts to present the so called northern Cyprus as being independed make this discussion fruitless and there's no point on continue discussing with you. ] (]) 14:02, 26 December 2012 (UTC) |
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In summary, please make sure that your edits reflect the global condemnation of Turkish actions on the island as per NPOV: WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV and NPOV: WP:DUE, and delegate pro-Turkey opinions as per NPOV: WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV and WP:UNDUE. ] (]) 17:28, 28 December 2024 (UTC) |
In case one is asking me for the reason for my recent edits, I added mentions of the Turkish government and that of the TRNC not recognising the internationally recognised government of Cyprus and calling it the "Greek Cypriot Administration of Southern Cyprus" and the "Greek Cypriot Administration" while citing the following sources:
My edits pertain to the names that the Turkish government and that of the TRNC commonly use to refer to the internationally recognised government of Cyprus and there are no better sources concerning their opinions and names about Cyprus than their own websites. - Hu753 (talk) 00:52, 4 October 2024 (UTC)
The article suffers from non-neutrality that stems from looking at the conflict as a bilateral, or quadrilateral conflict. I ask the editors to zoom out and see that there is a global consensus that the Turkish occupation is illegal, and that the declaration of independence of the occupied territory has been condemned by the United Nations. As per NPOV: WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV one may attribute these statements to the United Nations themselves. Please do not water down the statements, as that is a violation of NPOV: WP:IMPARTIAL and NPOV: WP:UNDUE, as only Turkey wishes to make claims to the contrary. Consider that NPOV: WP:DUE asks that the representation of the viewpoints matches the weight of the ones having the viewpoint, and the United Nations has the collective weight of 192 countries besides Turkey. Thus, as per NPOV: WP:DUE the article should take the position of the United Nations and delegate any Turkish specifications to footnotes.
Once again, the United Nations take precedence over Greece, Turkey, Cyprus, or the EU. Please make sure that the article abides by the following UN resolutions:
UN Security Council Resolution 186 (1964): Reaffirms the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the Republic of Cyprus over the entire island.
UN General Assembly Resolution 3212 (1974): Demands the withdrawal of all foreign military forces from the island, rendering the Turkish occupation globally condemnable.
UN Security Council Resolution 541 (1983): Condemns the unilateral declaration of independence, and establishes the lack of legal and political illegitimacy of the TRNC.
UN Security Council Resolution 550 (1984): Condemns attempts to settle any part of Varosha (Famagusta) by anyone other than its lawful inhabitants.
UN Security Council Resolution 1251 (1999): Calls for a bicommunal, bizonal federation as a basis for a solution.
In summary, please make sure that your edits reflect the global condemnation of Turkish actions on the island as per NPOV: WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV and NPOV: WP:DUE, and delegate pro-Turkey opinions as per NPOV: WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV and WP:UNDUE. 82.102.110.228 (talk) 17:28, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
level-4 vital article is rated B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
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