Misplaced Pages

Latest revision as of 02:29, 11 November 2024

A fact from Peter Spani (League of Lezhë) appeared on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the Did you know column on 12 April 2012 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows: Did you know... that last name of Peter Spani, one of the founders of the League of Lezhë in 1444, is derived from the Greek word spanos (Greek: σπανός) which means beardless? A record of the entry may be seen at Misplaced Pages:Recent additions/2012/April. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Peter Spani (League of Lezhë).

This article is rated Start-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Biography This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Misplaced Pages's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography Albania Low‑importance Peter Spani (League of Lezhë) is part of the WikiProject Albania, an attempt to co-ordinate articles relating to Albania on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. If you are new to editing Misplaced Pages visit the welcome page so as to become familiar with the guidelines. If you would like to participate, please join the project and help with our open tasks.AlbaniaWikipedia:WikiProject AlbaniaTemplate:WikiProject AlbaniaAlbania Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Reverts

Antid. please don't try to add the same OR assertions that have been refuted. I've used an English-language/modern work from a Greek author, who has translated the Byzantine documents and the source misinterpretation you've been involved in is very easy to replicate. Stavrides has dedicated a whole chapter and you're disregarding it based on outdated sources that don't contradict anything but deal with the issue simplistically. For example the Novo Brdo leader Peter Spani had no relation to this branch of the Spani family and claimed no imperial ancestors. If someone used the same extrapolations then Alessio Span should have the same traits, but he didn't.--— ZjarriRrethues —  11:06, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

• Please don't repeat that I added "the same OR assertions that have been refuted" unless you can provide a link which can prove your (false) accusations.
• Your claim that I used outdated sources after you using Gjon Muzaka's 1510 work is absurd. I used the same work (Milan Shufflay) you used just a couple of minutes earlier and even informed me about it on my talk page.
• Please follow WP:NPA and stop removing the significant views that have been published by reliable sources--Antidiskriminator (talk) 11:20, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Can you read the only complete source available and understand that only a branch claimed imperial/Byzantine descent?--— ZjarriRrethues —  10:32, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

As on Skanderbeg and Kastrioti family you cropped the quote again i.e source misinterpretation. The Sufflay quote you were using wasn't just Obitelj ova Span, de Span, Hispanus, Spanović podrijetlom je grčka but Toj skupštini pribiva i katolički Arbanas Petar Span, moćan pro* nijar oko Skadra i Drivosta. Obitelj ova Span, de Span, Hi* spanus, Spanović podrijetlom je grčka.--— ZjarriRrethues —  10:39, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

There is no source misinterpretation. What I wrote in the article is: " Spani family, which was of Greek origin." That asserttion is properly referenced with the quote you mentioned "Obitelj ova Span, de Span, Hi* spanus, Spanović podrijetlom je grčka". Please follow WP:NPA and stop removing the significant views that have been published by reliable sources.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 11:34, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Who wrote this citation? Majuru (talk) 21:32, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Latest edits

Are non-consensual and oversimplified. Specialized sources state things more clearly Aigest (talk) 21:57, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

I provided four sources for the Greek origin assertion. One of the additional sources I provided is written by the most specialized author for this topic (Schmitt) who confirmed the Greek origin assertion. Removal of cited addition of other editors is disruptive especially with false excuses. There are no "specialized sources" which contradict this assertion. Please revert yourself.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 23:41, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

You provided Sufflay twice, a Serbian snippet without a title and author and Schmitt, who's probably reusing Sufflay. On the other hand, Stavrides deals with the "imperial" claims in a detailed manner.--— ZjarriRrethues —  00:32, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

No. This is not about "imperial claims" but about ethnic origin of this family. It is not disputed by Stavrides and his text about Alessio Span. On the contrary. Therefore Shufflay and Schmitt are enough to support the Greek origin assertion.

Please find below details with title and author of the text published in Glas:

• Božić, Ivan (1980) , "Спани - Шпање", Glas (in Serbian), Belgrade: Serbian Academy of Science and Arts, p. 37, OCLC 183333221, СПАНИ — ШПАЊЕ Приказано на V скупу Одељења историјских наука 15. септембра 1976) Спани су били разграната породица грчког порекла, ко}а ]е у XV веку имала извесну улогу у друштвеном и политичном животу северне Албаније {{citation}}: Cite has empty unknown parameters: |laydate=, |separator=, |doi-inactive-date=, |nopp=, |month=, |laysummary=, |chapterurl=, and |lastauthoramp= (help); More than one of |author= and |last= specified (help)

Its author is Ivan Božić (historian) a Yugoslavian historian and member of the Serbian Academy of Science and Arts. He was an expert in history of medieval Zeta and the Venetian Republic's policy toward its coastal areas.

Conclusion: the Greek origin assertion of Spani family is supported with multiple reliable sources. I provided requested details, i.e. author and the title of the text published in Glas (written by professional historian specialized in the subject). Taking that in consideration the Greek origin assertion should be restored. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 00:16, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Antid. Bozic's source was probably Sufflay as Aigest mentioned, who btw made a logical leap in his own assertion as Stavrides's analysis reveals. Claiming origin from a "Byzantine emperor" doesn't make your claim necessarily true, nor can one assume to which emperor Spani referred to, not to mention that you're extrapolating Sufflay's term used by the others as he probably meant it in the context of Byzantine.--— ZjarriRrethues —  22:23, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Below are requested details about "a title and author" of the text published in Glas number 338. It is again Ivan Božić who confirmed the Greek origin assertion in his later 1983 work:

• Božić, Ivan (1983), "Албанија и Арбанаси у XIII XIV и XV веку", Glas (in Serbian), vol. 338, Belgrade: Serbian Academy of Science and Arts, p. 72, ...је и Петар Спан, господар краја између Скадра и Дриваста, чији су се преци, пореклом Грци, доселили у Албанију у првој половини XIV века; он је после првог освајања Србије дошао са српским деспотом Ђурђем у Дубровник и... {{citation}}: Cite has empty unknown parameters: |laydate=, |separator=, |doi-inactive-date=, |nopp=, |month=, |laysummary=, |chapterurl=, and |lastauthoramp= (help); More than one of |author= and |last= specified (help)

--Antidiskriminator (talk) 00:36, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

• Misplaced Pages Did you know articles
• Start-Class biography articles
• WikiProject Biography articles
• Start-Class Albania articles
• Low-importance Albania articles
• WikiProject Albania articles