Misplaced Pages

talk:WikiProject Infoboxes: Difference between revisions - Misplaced Pages

Article snapshot taken from Wikipedia with creative commons attribution-sharealike license. Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat. We can research this topic together.
Browse history interactively← Previous editContent deleted Content addedVisualWikitext
Revision as of 17:22, 15 February 2013 editDdstretch (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users16,798 edits →Deletion of infoboxes: response← Previous edit Latest revision as of 00:06, 12 November 2024 edit undoNotcharizard (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers11,400 edits →Art collective infobox: ReplyTags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit Reply 
(883 intermediate revisions by more than 100 users not shown)
Line 2: Line 2:
|archiveheader = {{talk archive navigation}} |archiveheader = {{talk archive navigation}}
|maxarchivesize = 70K |maxarchivesize = 70K
|counter = 6 |counter = 12
|minthreadsleft = 4 |minthreadsleft = 5
|minthreadstoarchive = 1 |minthreadstoarchive = 2
|algo = old(31d) |algo = old(90d)
|archive = Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Infoboxes/Archive %(counter)d |archive = Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Infoboxes/Archive %(counter)d
}} }}
{{Talk header|wp=yes|WT:INFOWATCH|search=yes}} {{Talk header|wp=yes|WT:INFOWATCH|search=yes}}
{{WikiProject banner shell|
{{WikiProject Infoboxes}}
}}
{{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/Templates/Signpost article link for WikiProjects|link=Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2013-02-11/WikiProject report|writer= ]| ||day =11|month=February|year=2013}}


== Purpose of inboxes == == Art collective infobox ==

When I first saw them, I thought infoboxes were cute and a waste of time. Subsequently, I've heard (I believe at ]) that the "invisible" utility of infoboxes is that they provide structured data - crucially important for ], ], and eventually for when the ] utilizes Misplaced Pages in general. So I'm now all for them. (I wish there was more structured data on Misplaced Pages.) Right now I'm participating in groups that are arguing over infoboxes, one side also saying that they're a waste of time and effort. Is there anyplace where there is a good and convincing justification for creating/having infoboxes? -- ] (]) 15:14, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
:I spoke on that topic at the Wikimania unconference on the Sunday. We have bits of such information scattered around the place; we should probably do more. Meanwhile see ] and ] for information about the metadata encoded into infoboxes. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); ]; ]</span> 22:53, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
::Thanks for this Andy. I hope it goes far in convincing more people of the necessity of infoboxes. -- ] (]) 13:10, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
:I'm also drafting an essay at ]. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); ]; ]</span> 12:57, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
::Mabeenot's article in the Signpost https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2013-02-11/WikiProject_report is a '''''very''''' good step - perhaps it should be partly incorporated into this article. -- ] (]) 13:29, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

== WP Infoboxes in the ''Signpost'' ==

The WikiProject Report would like to focus on WikiProject Infoboxes for a ''Signpost'' article. This is an excellent opportunity to draw attention to your efforts and attract new members to the project. Would you be willing to participate in an interview? If so, ''']'''. Just add your response below each question and feel free to skip any questions that you don't feel comfortable answering. Multiple editors will have an opportunity to respond to the interview questions, so be sure to sign your answers. If you know anyone else who would like to participate in the interview, please share this with them. Have a great day. ] (]) 22:40, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

== Suggested grammar and link change to an Infobox ==

I have made a post at related to a suggested usage change/format for the GDP field as included in a number of Infobox Settlement templates. Please post any comments you have there. ] (]) 19:36, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

== Infoboxes essay ==

After the long conversation at ] I believe we really need a proper essay on the debate over Infoboxes so that our readers see each side of the debate be they right or wrong (I am assuming there is not one as I cant find it). I want to just start - but think its best to do a little research on the problem first. Looking for links to debates like ( ] and earlier debates ]), relevant essays etc.. Would love some help and input.] (]) 05:51, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
:] critical of infoboxes and a ]. There's also an essay looking at ] to the current infobox templates. Also check out this week's ] for comments from this project's members. ] (]) 01:54, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

== Infobox book ==


Hello all, I have designed an infobox to be used for art collectives (as at the moment the options are either the artist or organisation infoboxes, neither which really fit). It is ] and would love any feedback on the infobox or advice on if it is ready to be published. Thank you! ] <sup>]</sup> 07:18, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
{{tl|Infobox book}} needs to switch to support bare filenames for image. -- ] (]) 19:50, 4 February 2013 (UTC)


:Website should probably be at the very bottom, no? <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;‥&nbsp;</span>]</span> 08:51, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
:I have put in an edit request to enable that functionality for this infobox, as it is ]Y protected. Please check the ] to see if it has been granted. ]]<sub><small>] ]</small></sub><sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">]</sup> 20:48, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
::i had thought about it, but then it would be in the “art” section. do you recommend any alternative formatting/heading? ] <sup>]</sup> 14:50, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
::I came with a solution that supports both bare filenames and the old style till we fix them all. -- ] (]) 22:40, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
:We should start adding a (hidden) category to infoboxes needing that change. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); ]; ]</span> 21:37, 4 February 2013 (UTC) :::I'd just give it its own section. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;‥&nbsp;</span>]</span> 14:56, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Ah, of course. Cheers, I have done that, I've also updated the example. ] <sup>]</sup> 19:23, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
::I totally agree. -- ] (]) 22:40, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
:::::Does anyone have any issues with me publishing this infobox? ] <sup>]</sup> 00:06, 12 November 2024 (UTC)


== Requested move at ] ==
== Deletion of infoboxes ==
] There is a requested move discussion at ] that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. <span class="nowrap">—]</span> <small>(])</small> 22:18, 31 August 2024 (UTC)


== Requested move at ] ==
Has anyone here run into deletion of infoboxes, based on the essay alluded to ? And if so, how does one respond? Thanks.--] (]) 03:37, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
] There is a requested move discussion at ] that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ] 16:52, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
:Essays are not policy, guideline, or anything except the opinion of one person. Revert the removal with impunity. If there is a legitimate point to some of the infobox fields being erroneous or misleading, try to deal with it if you revert. ]]<sub><small>] ]</small></sub><sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">]</sup> 04:48, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
::It looks like this was just a blank infobox, so try to add some actual information this time. ]]<sub><small>] ]</small></sub><sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">]</sup> 04:49, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
:Many times, (though still a tiny proportion of our million-plus infoboxes) and attempts to hold a reasoned discussion, per ], often result in a shitstorm. For recent examples, see ], ] (where in each case, infoboxes are hidden), ], ] and ] for some recent examples. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); ]; ]</span> 12:51, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
::So glad I'm not alone in my opinion. You can shout, kick and scream all you like Andy (you're recent behaviour has been appealing), but you won't succeed in forcing these horrible things on every historic building in a uniform fashion. This carting a debate that you have lost from page-to-page does you no credit at all. You are making yourself appear very puerile spoilt. <small><span style="border:1px solid blue;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 13:49, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
:::QED (but thanks for the compliment). <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); ]; ]</span> 14:07, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
{{OD}}
I don't agree with most of the things written in this essay. For instance:
*"If the infobox contains subjective categories, it is a disinfobox." NO. This means the infobox's content should change.
*"If the infobox is longer than a third of the article's body, it is a disinfobox." NO. This means the page needs expansion.
*"If a biographical infobox contains only a photo, a person's occupation, and date and place of birth/death, it is a disinfobox." No. It's better than just having a single photo.
*"Disinfoboxes tend to be the product of editors not interested in evaluating the merit or potential usefulness of an infobox within a particular article" This merely an opinion and judgement of motivations against ]. -- ] (]) 14:25, 15 February 2013 (UTC)


== Request for comment ==
There is a distinction to be made between the '''value of an infobox''', and (when it is inserted into an article), '''the manner in which the infobox is added'''. In some of the examples that have already been quoted, above, the main initiator and advocate of infoboxes seemed to be rather practically acting against their addition by the manner in which that addition was done. Thus, useful support for an infobox from potential allies was diminished because of what I can only and simply describe as a hamfisted and unskilled edit that certainly '''was perceived''' by some to contravene the spirit of collaborative working.In this, perception is important, and many ignore it at their peril, because we are in a '''persuasion situation.'''
Should the infobox template for countries be expanded to include greenhouse gas emissions? See the request at ]


] (]) 12:07, 27 September 2024 (UTC)
If you want to '''persuade''' people round to using infoboxes, you need to pay attention to the way in which you go and add them to articles. All successful persuasions in which you build committment rather than grudging tolerance (at best) start from a basis of those people's existing opinions that you wish to change. This can require careful thought to devise a suitable strategy, and eagerness or lack of patience can often thwart an entire enterprise by not getting a good strategy. At the moment, the addition of infoboxes has sometimes be done so that it becomes a radical and large edit to an already-established article (sometimes one that is at Featured Status, or one that is in some other prominent position within wikipedia), and it is done in a way that makes the end-result look worse than without to established editors who may have worked long and hard to add content to an article and make it look good without an infobox and have had no input to the process of adding an infobox.


:No. There are lots of major problems that countries face -- nuclear stockpile, number of incarcerated residents, number of impoverished residents. All these things should be discussed in the article, but we should keep infoboxes concise. Indeed, we should be considering what we can remove from infoboxes which are, by necessity, redundant, as they are restating facts that should already be stated and referenced in the article. -- -- ] (]) 18:31, 27 September 2024 (UTC)
I dispute Andy Mabbett's comment that on ] he did an acceptable job of initiating a "reasoned discussion", because he added an infobox without any prior discussion (see ], and ]) and he now suggests, by implication, others were responsible for a "shitstorm" that then happened: even the description of what happened is unlikely to act to '''persuade''' the editors who objected at the undiscussed addition, and the accusation of ] that then was the response to an objection. This type of action ands up alienating people more rather than persuading them, and, like it or not, you do have to do this both in a general way (by writing well-published essays) and on a case-by-case way (for individual articles). I am not trying to be objectionable here, but I am trying to suggest, '''gently''', that (a) one needs diplomacy to carry your work forwards at times, (b) actions like the ones I have suggested, above, do not seem to fit easily within the framework of Wikpedia principles of collaborative working, and (c) (speaking as a professional researcher in the area), they do not represent good strategic use of well-understood practices of how to be successfully persuasive. I put it down to extreme enthusiasm that leads to impatience, which can sometimes be good, but which sometimes means one acts a little sub-optimally, and leads to a breakdown of ]. However, that seems to have happened a number of times, and I imagine, unless changes are made, it will happen again. Instead of imposing infoboxes on articles that don't have them, and engendering grudging tolerance (and potential resentment) by so doing; it seems more in the spirit of wikipedia to try to change the strategy to build committment in others by persuading them and carrying them with you! There are other issues similar to these about strategy that can be made, but I feel I must, once again, stress that these thoughts are offered up to you all as a way of helping you achieve your ends in a better, less confrontational way, which is what I hope we all, deep down, are committed to here on wikipedia. I am not immune from making these mistakes, either (after all, I am human), but I hope what I have said here, after a period of reflection, can help us all move forward.]&nbsp;] 15:40, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
:QED. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); ]; ]</span> 16:50, 15 February 2013 (UTC)


== Discussion at ] ==
:: For the record, I like infoboxes, and I have added many of them to articles, but I think the approaches to adding them, especially the ones you gave in a short list, turned into confrontational exchanges, exactly because of the problems that your short, seemingly point-scoring message, above, seems to illustrate. This makes me sad. Can any others give me more than a smart-put-down-like comment to what I have written: I wrote it as a means of building bridges and making positive suggestions for you all, because I am not against infoboxes or having them added to articles, but there are ways of doing that and there are ways of doing that! If you like, I can even cite reliable sources that back up the strategic issues I have mentioned. However, this kind of answer, above, is '''exactly''' what made a difficult insertion of an infobox to an article a source of confrontation and anger. '''Surely we can do better than this?''' ]&nbsp;] 17:22, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
]&nbsp;You are invited to join the discussion at ], which is within the scope of this WikiProject. ] (]) 13:44, 1 October 2024 (UTC)<!-- Template:WikiProject please see --> ] (]) 13:44, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 00:06, 12 November 2024

This is the talk page for discussing WikiProject Infoboxes and anything related to its purposes and tasks.
Shortcut
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12Auto-archiving period: 3 months 
This project page does not require a rating on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject iconInfoboxes
WikiProject iconThis page is within the scope of WikiProject Infoboxes, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Infoboxes on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.InfoboxesWikipedia:WikiProject InfoboxesTemplate:WikiProject InfoboxesInfoboxes
WikiProject Infoboxes was featured in a WikiProject Report in the Signpost on 11 February 2013.

Art collective infobox

Hello all, I have designed an infobox to be used for art collectives (as at the moment the options are either the artist or organisation infoboxes, neither which really fit). It is over here in my sandbox and would love any feedback on the infobox or advice on if it is ready to be published. Thank you! -- NotCharizard 07:18, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Website should probably be at the very bottom, no? Remsense ‥ 诉 08:51, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
i had thought about it, but then it would be in the “art” section. do you recommend any alternative formatting/heading? -- NotCharizard 14:50, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
I'd just give it its own section. Remsense ‥ 诉 14:56, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
Ah, of course. Cheers, I have done that, I've also updated the example. -- NotCharizard 19:23, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
Does anyone have any issues with me publishing this infobox? -- NotCharizard 00:06, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Template talk:Infobox Chinese/Japanese#Requested move 31 August 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Template talk:Infobox Chinese/Japanese#Requested move 31 August 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 22:18, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Template talk:Infobox Chinese/Japanese#Requested move 31 August 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Template talk:Infobox Chinese/Japanese#Requested move 31 August 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Frost 16:52, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

Request for comment

Should the infobox template for countries be expanded to include greenhouse gas emissions? See the request at Template talk:Infobox country#Request for comment on greenhouse emissions

20WattSphere (talk) 12:07, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

No. There are lots of major problems that countries face -- nuclear stockpile, number of incarcerated residents, number of impoverished residents. All these things should be discussed in the article, but we should keep infoboxes concise. Indeed, we should be considering what we can remove from infoboxes which are, by necessity, redundant, as they are restating facts that should already be stated and referenced in the article. -- -- Ssilvers (talk) 18:31, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Discussion at Misplaced Pages:Village pump (idea lab) § Creating Template:Wikidata Infobox

 You are invited to join the discussion at Misplaced Pages:Village pump (idea lab) § Creating Template:Wikidata Infobox, which is within the scope of this WikiProject. Thryduulf (talk) 13:44, 1 October 2024 (UTC) Thryduulf (talk) 13:44, 1 October 2024 (UTC)