| Revision as of 15:53, 16 April 2013 editSilver seren (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers43,749 edits →WR found definitive proof...: Reply← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 20:04, 9 November 2024 edit undoLowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs)Bots, Template editors2,293,067 editsm Archiving 2 discussion(s) to Talk:List of Misplaced Pages controversies/Archive 4) (bot |
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{{Skip to talk}} |
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{{WP Internet culture|class=list}} |
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{{Talk header}} |
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{{WebsiteNotice|class=list}} |
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{{Section sizes}} |
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{{Controversial}} |
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{{Old XfD multi |
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| date2 = 16 April 2013 |
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| result2 = '''Keep''' |
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| page2 = List of Misplaced Pages controversies |
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| date = 23 April 2013 |
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| result = '''No Consensus''' to endorse the close, but a rough consensus exists that relisting would not be helpful or necessary |
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| link = https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2013_April_16 |
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| caption = DRV |
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{{afd-merged-from|Fram controversy|Fram controversy|30 June 2019}} |
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{{WikiProject banner shell|class=List|1= |
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{{WikiProject Internet culture|importance=low}} |
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{{WikiProject Websites|importance=low}} |
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{{WikiProject Misplaced Pages|importance=mid}} |
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{{WikiProject Lists|class=list|importance=low}} |
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{{Press |
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| subject = article |
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| author = ] |
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| title = Sexism on Misplaced Pages Is Not the Work of 'A Single Misguided Editor' |
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| org = ] |
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| url = http://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2013/04/sexism-on-wikipedia-is-not-the-work-of-a-single-misguided-editor/275405/ |
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| date = 30 April 2013 |
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| quote = According to a Misplaced Pages article entitled "List of Misplaced Pages Controversies," "When the 'American men novelists' category was first created, its only entries were Orson Scott Card and P. D. Cacek (who is female)." |
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| accessdate = 30 April 2013 |
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}} |
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{{Copied |
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|from1 = Misplaced Pages |
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|from_oldid1 = 549865557 |
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|to1 = List of Misplaced Pages controversies |
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|to_diff1 = prev |
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|to_oldid1 = 550500485 |
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|from2 = Misplaced Pages biography controversy |
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== Issues == |
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|from_oldid2 = 545866481 |
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|to2 = List of Misplaced Pages controversies |
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|to_oldid2 = 550500485 |
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|from3 = Essjay controversy |
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So many issues with this article, where do I even begin. Let's see, I guess i'll start from the simplest and go toward the more complicated. |
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|to3 = List of Misplaced Pages controversies |
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|to_oldid3 = 550500485 |
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|from4 = Scott Kildall |
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1. There are several statements in the article that are not properly referenced and, since they are statements making an opinion about something on behalf of an outside group, they especially need to be referenced. I have tagged those with citation needed tags. |
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|from_oldid4 = 513907742 |
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|to4 = List of Misplaced Pages controversies |
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|to_diff4 = prev |
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|to_oldid4 = 550500485 |
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|from5 = Conflict of interest editing on Misplaced Pages |
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2. The references. Referencing another Misplaced Pages article, even if it is the About page, isn't really useful for anything. Nor is saying "See also" to another Misplaced Pages page in the references. Just include the relevant references that are used on those other pages. There are also several uses of primary sources, which in an article like this that is giving opinions, should really be avoided as much as possible. There are also sources of questionable reliability for this subject (Daily Mail) or of known non-neutrality for the subject (Violet Blue) that's being presented as a neutral source. Then there are the unreliable sources (Misplaced Pages Review). |
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|from_oldid5 = 549642938 |
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|to5 = List of Misplaced Pages controversies |
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|from6 = Rambot |
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3. In turn, these references of questionable reliability are being used to prop up non-neutral language. In fact, quite obviously POV language. The most explicitly obvious POV being in the line "Misplaced Pages administrator and community liaison Oliver Keyes wrote a blog post ridiculing Roth for his approach, but supplied no viable alternative", where the reference for this is the blog post itself, clearly showing that the writing is meant to be POV without any attached reference. There are a number of other such examples throughout the article. |
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|from_oldid6 = 716428299 |
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|to6 = List of Misplaced Pages controversies |
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|to_diff6 = 716429654 |
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4. In total, it adds up to an article that can be easily viewed as having been constructed to be POV from the get-go, using shoddy references and POV language to push the reader toward a certain viewpoint. |
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{{Copying within Misplaced Pages}} |
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|archive = Talk:List of Misplaced Pages controversies/Archive %(counter)d |
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{{Broken anchors|links= |
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* <nowiki>]</nowiki> The anchor (#Anonymity of editors) has been ] before. <!-- {"title":"Anonymity of editors","appear":{"revid":411081495,"parentid":387743991,"timestamp":"2011-01-31T02:14:08Z","removed_section_titles":,"added_section_titles":},"disappear":{"revid":506634272,"parentid":506631871,"timestamp":"2012-08-09T22:32:14Z","removed_section_titles":,"added_section_titles":}} --> |
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== Redisgn == |
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Though I do note that a lot of this language can be attributed to IP 174.141.213's edits. <font color="silver">]</font><font color="blue">]</font><sup>]</sup> 07:11, 16 April 2013 (UTC) |
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{{Hat}} |
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In early 2023, Misplaced Pages redesigned their site to punish competent professionals who still use desktop computers. The new design completely discards the old format for a new one that destroys the linearity of articles and implements reduced line length. The reduction in line length is intended to cater to those with poor reading comprehension, though they did not beta test the design on simple.wikipedia.org for an unknown reason. |
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I put this in talk so as to not get an IP ban from wikipedia. |
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:I can only speak to your point number 2, since it complains about my use of a wikilinked article after the phrase "see also" in the references. This footnote falls under ]. It's not supporting anything, it's merely explanatory. I would have used the <nowiki>{{further}}</nowiki> template, which I assume you would have had no problem with, but it seemed to overwhelm the single bullet point. Also, it seemed like overkill to list the referenced article in the see-alsos for the whole article, since it really only applies to that section. Do you have a better solution than this? It's certainly not an instance of a WP article cited to assert a fact. You only say it's "not useful." How so? It seems obviously useful to me.— ] (]) 14:38, 16 April 2013 (UTC) |
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(Reply from User:FizzleDrunk) first of all, Misplaced Pages has an option built into preferences to revert back its 2010 user interface. Second of all, I have never seen any controversy surrounding the change in design. Third of all, the point you are attempting to make is being done so in a rude and bad faith manner. Fourth of all you should not be complaining about others reading comprehension when you both do not know how to format the talk page and have misspelled “redesign” in your header. Fifth of all, you will not get an IP ban for making such an edit. You will likely have your edit reverted alongside a justification for why. |
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::I went ahead and took it out of the footnotes since it was bothering you.— ] (]) 15:20, 16 April 2013 (UTC) |
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{{Hab}} |
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:::Your edits were perfectly fine, I just question the editing neutrality of others that have edited the article. As for the See also thing, I feel that we should try and keep inter-Misplaced Pages articles out of reference lists. It causes a self-referential issue. Even for information that is just explanatory, I feel it would just be best to include an actual reference and have the Misplaced Pages article link be included in the article text itself. <font color="silver">]</font><font color="blue">]</font><sup>]</sup> 15:53, 16 April 2013 (UTC) |
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== Add target of Virgil Griffith list == |
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I think that we should add a list because the share number of targets individually listed looks horrible on small devices like phones. Also it's just inconvenient and an eye sore to have such a big block of blue. ] (]) 18:15, 28 June 2024 (UTC) |
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:See section below for another response. I definitely agree with you about that line about "definitive proof."— ] (]) 15:13, 16 April 2013 (UTC) |
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== WR found definitive proof... == |
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== Revert of short description == |
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Hi {{U|Babysharkboss2}}, You reverted a recent edit adding a descriptive and disambiguating short description with the edirt summary ]. Could you clarify what yo mean by this please, as WP:SDNONE is not of itself a reason to remove a suitable short discription. Cheers, · · · ] ]: 14:34, 11 September 2024 (UTC) |
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I removed this: |
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<blockquote> |
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:"none" is preferred when the title is sufficiently descriptive ] <sup>(])</sup> 14:40, 11 September 2024 (UTC) |
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''Misplaced Pages Review'' found definitive proof that Jordan made false claims about his academic qualifications and professional experiences on his Misplaced Pages user page.{{citation needed|date=April 2013}} |
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::That is not what it says, and not what it means. Something that ] actually does say, though, is that the short description is part of the content, and can be edited at any time to improve its usefulness to the reader, which I suggest the new short description does, since it informs the reader that the article is about controversies about Misplaced Pages, rather than about controversial topics covered by Misplaced Pages. Cheers, · · · ] ]: 14:53, 11 September 2024 (UTC) |
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</blockquote> |
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:::your right, because I wasnt quoting from WP:SDNONE, I was qouting the hidden tab located next to the short desc of this page explaining why we don't need one. ] <sup>(])</sup> 15:19, 11 September 2024 (UTC) |
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since it doesn't seem to be sourceable and does seem to need a source. Thoughts?— ] (]) 15:12, 16 April 2013 (UTC) |
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::::What hidden tab? |
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:Pretty much all Misplaced Pages Review info and references in the article should be removed, since the information doesn't appear to be corroborated by independent news sources. <font color="silver">]</font><font color="blue">]</font><sup>]</sup> 15:53, 16 April 2013 (UTC) |
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::::] (]) 16:43, 11 September 2024 (UTC) |
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::::That makes more sense, but was not obvious, as short descriptions are commonly edited with the gadget which does not show the comment. Anyway, that explains some of the confusion. Back to the point. I suggested that the short description added was better than none, so should stay. It is now a matter of finding consensus for the page. Cheers, · · · ] ]: 16:58, 11 September 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::It is a comment in the wikitext. It should also be visible in VisualEditor. · · · ] ] |
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:::::::Unfortunately, the practical issue here is that short descriptions can't be seen or edited in the visual editor. Most editors use the gadget but, as you say, that doesn't show the hidden text, making the addition of such text of limited use. ] (]) 18:19, 11 September 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::::The text is still useful in annotated links, also just because visual editor still has shortcomings does not mean things should not be done by those who can do them. Cheers, · · · ] ]: 05:14, 12 September 2024 (UTC) |
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:The title is sufficiently explanatory, and an additional explanation would not be helpful. The proposal was also overlong. ] (] / ]) 18:44, 11 September 2024 (UTC) |
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::{{tq| overlong}} what does overlong mean? ] <sup>(])</sup> 01:59, 12 September 2024 (UTC) |
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:::Too long. See ]. ] (] / ]) 02:23, 12 September 2024 (UTC) |
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::::''Not'' "too long" ''Read'' ]. · · · ] ]: 05:30, 12 September 2024 (UTC) |
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::Clearly we differ on this point. If you see a link to the article in a 'see also' section, you are left wondering whether it is about "Controversies about Misplaced Pages, its communities, and the Wikimedia Foundation", or controversies covered by articles in Misplaced Pages. In my opinion the short description clarifies that point. · · · ] ]: 05:28, 12 September 2024 (UTC) |
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::A short description is part of the content of an article, if it can be improved, it should be improved. It is a service to the readers and a convenience to the editors. · · · ] ]: 05:44, 12 September 2024 (UTC) |
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== Too long == |
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This page is very long. The best split would seem to be by decade. Would that be OK? <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); ]; ]</span> 15:52, 9 November 2024 (UTC) |
I think that we should add a list because the share number of targets individually listed looks horrible on small devices like phones. Also it's just inconvenient and an eye sore to have such a big block of blue. 91.223.100.28 (talk) 18:15, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
.svg){kind=icon}
