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Revision as of 16:29, 5 June 2013 editVoceditenore (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, File movers, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers123,168 edits →Consistency issues: off to "il bel paese"← Previous edit Latest revision as of 13:41, 26 December 2024 edit undoLowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs)Bots, Template editors2,295,546 editsm Archiving 2 discussion(s) to Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Opera/Archive 135) (bot 
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'''A selection of articles, new or otherwise interesting'''
'''Operatic Did you know ... '''
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* ''']''', a ] performer against her family's wishes<!-- DYK Dec -->
{{*mp}}... that contralto ''''']''''', born 5 June 1923, created the role of Hermia in Britten's '']'' and sang Bach's ] at the ]?
* ''']''', a Swedish ], who appeared at the ] in Swedish premieres such as Musetta in Puccini's '']'' ''and Woglinde in Wagner's '']'' <!-- TFP 30 Oct -->
{{*mp}}... that ''''']''''', born 4 June 1943, was countertenor soloist in the first ] recording of the '']'' and wrote the obituary of ] for '']''?
* ''']''', an operatic bass and Broadway musical star who became a comedian in ] in the comic duo Blake and Amber
{{*mp}}... that the ''']''' ''(pictured)'' is named after the local-born ] and was inaugurated on 31 May 1890 with his '']''?
* ''']''', the chorus master of the ], who helped the ] win multiple awards for operatic choir of the year

* ''']''', a tenor who made his stage debut in the title role of Gounod's '']'' at the ]. and who was also an ] cavalry officer<!-- DYK 13 Sep -->
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File:Geraldine Ulmar in Gilbert and Sullivan's The Mikado - photograph only.jpg| ]
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Michael William Balfe - Atelier Nadar.jpg|]
File:Robert Jacob Hamerton - Poster for A Sensation Novel.jpg|'']''
File:Dudley Hardy - Poster for His Majesty.jpg|'']''
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File:George Grossmith as Reginald Bunthorne in Gilbert and Sullivan's Patience (1881).jpg|] in '']''
File:Falka - Weir Collection.jpg|'']''
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Claude Debussy by Atelier Nadar.jpg|]
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File:Philippe Chaperon - Set design for Act V in the première of Victorin Joncières' Dimitri.jpg|'']'' (Act V set design)
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==Article creation and cleanup requests==
;Article requests
In a now about ], <font color="forestgreen">]</font><font color="blue">]</font> suggested that the following conductors/directors/designers really ought to appear in Misplaced Pages. I'm copying it here for editors who may be interested in creating these articles:
*Conductors – ], ], ], ]
*Directors – ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ]
*Designers – ], ], ].

Per
*] (critic and opera scholar of '']'' and '']'' magazine)
] (]) 12:43, 10 March 2010 (UTC) <small>(latest update 06:29, 2 May 2011 (UTC))</small>

'''Update:''' ] has now created basic stubs for all of the above. I'll leave them up for the moment, as they need to be checked for bannering and possibly the addition of further references and/or external links with information for expanding the articles.
] (]) 13:38, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

*], set designer (]).
;Cleanup requests
*Per , the following transwikied articles from the Italian Misplaced Pages need considerable clean-up:
:] &bull; ] &bull; ] &bull; ] &bull; ] &bull; ] &bull; ] &bull; ] &bull; ]

*Per ] (needs copyediting and better referencing, too many "cherry-picked" quotes) and the ] recording section needs clean-up and pruning.

*Per , ] needs a better and more factual article with better referencing.
**Update: after I'd done some reorganising, User:ManukaFonsworth came in and did a major expansion of the article with lots of supporting refs. ] (]) 14:18, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

*], needs more inline citations, currently tagged with {{tl|more footnotes}}
*], needs more inline citations, currently tagged with {{tl|more footnotes}}
*], great singer, needs a better article, odd translation and focus
*] needs inline citations, currently tagged with {{tl|more footnotes}}
*], first Klingsor, is a stub, deserves better
**I've cleaned up the Karl Hill article somewhat and added a Commons image of his grave (where he is clearly shown as Carl Hill!). I'll add some extra stuff tomorrow. --<font color="forestgreen">]</font><font color="blue">]</font> 23:01, 11 May 2013 (UTC)


==Free subscriptions to databases== ==Free subscriptions to databases==
<!-- ] 11:27, 31 August 2029 (UTC) -->{{User:ClueBot III/DoNotArchiveUntil|1882870074}}
*] – apply ] for the next round
<small>'''Note''' Do not archive this section. ] (]) 10:17, 1 August 2018 (UTC)</small>
*] apply ] for the next round
*<s>] – apply ] for the next round</s> ("This partnership is currently not available. It is inactive but retained for historical interest")
*<s>] apply ] for the next round</s> ("HighBeam Research was a paid search engine and full text online archive ... In late 2018, the archive was shut down.")
*] apply ] for the next round *] apply ] for the next round
*] sign up for waiting list ] *<s>] sign up for waiting list ]</s> ("This partnership is currently not available. It is inactive but retained for historical interest")
*], an excellent resource, sign up ]
] (]) 10:53, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
] (]) 10:53, 10 January 2013 (UTC) <small>Updated by ] (]) 07:57, 4 November 2015 (UTC)</small>


== Opera articles: Recordings - which to exclude? == == Opera articles: Recordings - which to exclude? ==
<!-- ] 11:27, 31 August 2029 (UTC) -->{{User:ClueBot III/DoNotArchiveUntil|1882870074}}
As there has been no further discussion on this since early December 2010, I've archived this . But this is a topic we may want to revisit at some point, re expanding/clarifying the ]. ] (]) 08:37, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
<small>'''Note''' Do not archive this section. ] (]) 10:17, 1 August 2018 (UTC)</small>


As there has been no further discussion on this since early December 2010, I've archived this . But this is a topic we may want to revisit at some point, re expanding/clarifying the ]. ] (]) 08:37, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
== Greetings from the German language Opera Project ==
:The latest discussion (January 2014) is archived . – ] (]) 09:12, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
Hello, just wanted to say Hi! from the ]. We started in the beginning of 2011, a very recent effort compared to you. Likewise, our average articles on operas, composers etc. are quite behind the en:WP in terms of coverage and content. Which is a shame, considering the richness of opera life in Germany, Austria and Switzerland. We have started by focussing on the widely read articles on popular operas, see this ], which gives page impressions in de:WP and en:WP and also global number of productions per year as a proxy for popularity. The rationale is this: given our low number of contributors, having 20 formerly poor articles on popular operas turned into solid works is worth more then 20 more articles on arcane subjects. How did you go about growing your project? PS: Maybe there could be some areas of cooperation, especially as regards access to and understanding of German language sources and literature. Let me know what you think. --] (]) 16:49, 5 September 2011 (UTC)


==Articles needing libretto links==
* I have introduced this timely proposal to the discussion ]. --Smerus 20:27, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
<!-- ] 11:27, 31 August 2029 (UTC) -->{{User:ClueBot III/DoNotArchiveUntil|1882870074}}
<small>'''Note''' Do not archive this section. ] (]) 10:17, 1 August 2018 (UTC)</small>


==Articles needing libretto links==
Note that for now some of the Rossini librettos can still be accessed from the list on on Karadar, but it will require adding those new links to the articles, and I'm not sure how long it will be before Karadar closes that loop hole. Anyhow, here's the list of operas so far where I've removed dead links and there is currently no other alternative. It's also possible to recover some of the karadar links via the ], as was done at , although it's a bit fiddly. If you add a new link, just strike through the opera name(s) below. ] (]) 16:55, 13 November 2012 (UTC) Note that for now some of the Rossini librettos can still be accessed from the list on on Karadar, but it will require adding those new links to the articles, and I'm not sure how long it will be before Karadar closes that loop hole. Anyhow, here's the list of operas so far where I've removed dead links and there is currently no other alternative. It's also possible to recover some of the karadar links via the ], as was done at , although it's a bit fiddly. If you add a new link, just strike through the opera name(s) below. ] (]) 16:55, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

::'''Help!''' Does anyone know how to access Karadar these days? It appears to be a dead link - and I've tried to get into it via a couple of ways. ] (]) 16:15, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
:::Hi ]. It appears to have disappeared in all its guises–.com, .org. and .it. I have a feeling they ran into copyright problems with some of their stuff. It's not showing up on Google searches at all and see . I have found which has links to zillions of libretti. Hopefully, you'll find the one(s) you're looking for. Best, ] (]) 18:06, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
;List ;List
], ], <strike>]</strike>, <strike>]</strike>, <strike>]</strike>, <strike>]</strike>, ] (only score found), <s>]</s>, <s>]</s>, <s>]</s>, <s>]</s>, <s>]</s>,
<strike>]</strike>, ], ], ], ], <strike>]</strike> <s>]</s>, <s>]</s>, ], <s>]</s>, <s>]</s>, <s>]</s>

== On this day - did you know ==

You know probably that I try to find a fact related to the day to put on top of this page. Some of the articles would profit from improvement. I plan to list those here, not starting a new section everytime.

--] (]) 07:52, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

== Royal Opera House event - 22 June ==

Following up from my post a couple of months ago, I am delighted to let you know that the Royal Opera House will be hosting an editathon, focusing on the works of Sir ], to be held on Saturday 22 June 2013. (It's turned out more ballet focused than opera, admittedly, but I'm sure you'd want to know regardless...)

The day will provisionally include some form of behind-the-scenes tour, though we're still working on organising the details. If you're interested, please ] and keep the date free - it'd be great to see you there! ] (]) 00:03, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

==Opera infobox ==
This is under development at ]. OP discussions leading up to it are archived in ]. – ] (]) 17:57, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

== librettodopera.it ==

I've added this to the project's ], but just a heads-up about a great source which I just discovered, but has been around for quite a while...
*'''''', curated by the ], is a gold mine of information, especially for relatively obscure Italian operas and is very well annotated and organized. See this example for . The site has directions and introductions in both Italian and English, but all the data for individual entries is in Italian.

] (]) 14:47, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

:A splenddid site! Just used it to add some performance refs to the Donizetti '']'' article. ] (]) 18:02, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

== Does this project have a policy on article creation? ==

I was at my local ] this weekend where I got into a discussion with a WP administrator. In short, I espoused the opinion that creation of an article should have at least a paragraph's worth of information in addition to sources. This administrator, as one of those who is responsible for deleting AfDs, felt that (assuming notability) all an article needs is a sentence and source to justify creation. I'm wondering how the project feels about this issue. -- ] (]) 17:28, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
:Good question. Writing as a *user*, I would prefer a concise and fact-filled sentence rather than nothing at all, particularly when information is difficult to come by in English. Writing as a (drive-by) editor, I'm spending too much time groping around WP in other languages but am very wary of creating en:WP stubs that are unlikely to get expanded. Should I add very brief stubs (kosboot's "sentence and a source") for composers who are mentioned in in the body of en:WP articles, who are significant in their own countries (and who may have articles in other WPs), but who lack en:WP articles? Consider ] .. a name I stumbled across in . He wrote something that I have heard of, and has an article in but I'm not going to be capable of more than a one sentence article. Should I write it? ] (]) 22:16, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
::A little late in my response—I was away until April 22nd and then got involved in some other WP articles. Anyhow, I say go for it and create ]. In my view, even a one fact-filled sentence is fine, provided a decent reference is given which can help expand the article. Something is better than nothing, and in many cases, this is the only way these articles get created. I recently stumbled across ] and plan to expand it. This morning, it looked like . Best, ] (]) 11:42, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

== Oratorio erotico (cross posted from Talk:Oratorio) ==

Apologies for posting this in two places, but it seems that this may bridge the ground between opera and oratorio so I'd like to raise the subject here as well:

''I've just stumbled across 'Oratorio erotico' in es:WP and wanted to know more. Google tells me that it's an established genre, being mentioned in numerous books in various languages, including the Oxford Companion to Music.''

What was the relationship of oratorio erotico and opera? With its emphasis on the sensual and the worldly, is it an unstaged opera in all but name? (a way of avoiding the "no opera in Lent" rule, perhaps?) ] (]) 12:16, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

== National epics ==

See ], ] and ]. The latter does not appear to have any significant operas, but you guys may know of some I have missed.--] <small>(]/]/]/]/]) </small> 17:35, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

== The Pirates of Penzance template ==

This one is very short, but have a look: {{tl|The Pirates of Penzance}}.--] <small>(]/]/]/]/]) </small> 07:22, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
:Be warned: The people involved with ] are '''extremely''' passionate. I would put this before them - and be prepared for them to either shoot it down or greatly transform it. -- ] (]) 13:04, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

=='']'' inaccuracies?==
An IP has suggested that there are some possible inaccuracies in the synopsis. See ]. I'm unfamiliar with the opera, but if any of you are, could you check this out? Best, ] (]) 06:50, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

==File:Tino Pattiera - Tino Pattiera.jpg==
] has been nominated for deletion -- ] (]) 00:51, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
:Rescued now. I added a source and fair use rationale and changed the license to {{tl|Non-free historic image}}. I've also added references to the previously unreferenced article ]. However, it needs copyediting for encyclopedic style and re-structuring. ] (]) 09:54, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

== The Fairy-Queen ==

I'm not sure what should or could be done about it, but currently our page on ] reads more like Counter-tenor propaganda than anything else ]-] 09:32, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
:Well it is a GA, so proceed with caution.....--] (]) 09:34, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

== Festspiel ==


==Requested opera templates==
It's about time to get ready for a festival. '']'' has a nice passage about the fact that Wagner called this work not "Oper" but "Handlung":
<!-- ] 11:27, 31 August 2029 (UTC) -->{{User:ClueBot III/DoNotArchiveUntil|1882870074}}
: "Wagner referred to the work not as an opera, but called it "eine Handlung" (literally ''a drama'' or ''a plot''), which was the equivalent of the term used by the Spanish ] ] for his dramas."
<small>'''Note''' Do not archive this section. ] (]) 10:17, 1 August 2018 (UTC)</small>


Archived at ]. ] (]) 09:46, 19 June 2015 (UTC)
'']'' has a similar passage:
: "Wagner preferred to describe Parsifal not as an opera, but as "''ein Bühnenweihfestspiel''" ("A Festival Play for the Consecration of the Stage"). At Bayreuth a tradition has arisen that there is no applause after the first act of the opera."
: (I don't know where that translation comes from. It's not the stage that is consecrated, but something sacred takes place on it.)


Place new requests here. ] (]) 10:29, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
I miss an equivalent for '']'', to be linked from the Main page tomorrow, and its parts, which Wagner termed "Bühnenfestspiel", as ] knows (which offers "Consecrated stage festival play" for Parsifal, a bit better). --] (]) 16:50, 21 May 2013 (UTC)


== Almanacco Amadeus – Che disastro! ==
:: Gerda!! '']''???? I thought you insisted on echt deutsch for the opera, (sorry, Festspiel or Handlung,) titles? I am truly shocked. You are quite right about the "Bühnenweihfestspiel" translation, of course -maybe 'a staged consecration festival'? --] (]) 19:07, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
<!-- ] 11:27, 31 August 2029 (UTC) -->{{User:ClueBot III/DoNotArchiveUntil|1882870074}}
<small>'''Note''' Do not archive this section. ] (]) 10:17, 1 August 2018 (UTC)</small>


It's disappeared again. All links now redirect to . I'm keeping an eye out to see if the almanacco re-surfaces, but so far it's nowhere to be found on the new site. Grrrr! ] (]) 15:49, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
:::Sorry to have shocked you ;) - There must be sources. It's so much more important what the sources say than what the composer says ;) - I would perhaps try "Sacred/Solemn Stage Festival Play" but I'm not a reliable source. "Weihe" is consecration, but "-weih-" is only derived, as in Weihnachten. - Let's distinguish the official title and the common name, there's a lot of freedom in common names. Wagner didn't say "Der Ring", but we do, it translates nicely to "The Ring". - Did you know that a certain opera has the title "Der Fliegende Holländer" in the German Misplaced Pages? I didn't know until today. I asked there why, but so far there was no answer. - Enjoy surprises and your day, --] (]) 19:49, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
:::ps: I decorated my user for the occasion, "Starke Scheite" ("Kinder hört ich greinen nach der Mutter, daß süße Milch sie verschüttet") --] (]) 21:16, 21 May 2013 (UTC)


: It's finally available again: . --] (]) 22:16, 3 January 2018 (UTC)
== La Cecchina, ossia La buona figliuola ==
::I attempted to adapt ] to the new URL and its parameters; it seems to work. Lamentably, I discovered only later that ] had already modified ] similarly – that template hadn't been linked to the EN template via interwiki links (now corrected). -- ] (]) 14:18, 13 March 2018 (UTC)


:::Thanks so much for that, ] and ]! Not only for the good news but for fixing the template too. Brilliant! ] (]) 16:16, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
Is there a reason why this opera article is ]? Shouldn't it be moved to ], or just to ], leaving 'La buona figliuola' as a redirect? I see there are recordings under both titles. I also note that ] is presently a redirect page saying that the words also refer to ], although this seems spurious as there is no mention of this nickname in her article as far as I can see, or in Grove.--] (]) 05:32, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
:Grove Music Online and Grove Opera both give the primary name as : ''La buona figliuola'' , i.e., there is no "ossia", rather ''La Cecchina'' appears to be the secondary alternative name. Apparently there are a lot of other names that were used at various times. These are reproduced in our ]. Perhaps the first sentence of the article should be changed to: '''''La buona figliuola''''' ("The Good-Natured Girl") or '''''La Cecchina''''' ("Cecchina").... The other alternative names might be put in a footnote. (And maybe the other variants could be removed from the table for the sake of brevity. Concerning the redirect, I don't know. Just because Grove doesn't mention it, doesn't mean it wasn't Caccini's nickname.) Update: ''Grove Opera'' has a rather long article on the opera which gives ''La Cecchina, ossia La buona figliuola'' as a secondary title in brackets. (The names I mentioned above were from the composer's list of works.) Holden gives the title as ''La Cecchina, ossia La buona figliuola''. Loewenberg says it was performed under the title ''La Cecchina'' with alterations at Bari (the composer's native town) 7 February 1928 (celebrating the bicentennary of Piccinni's birth). That is the first instance he mentions that title in a rather long peformance history. Covent Garden first did it in 1766 in translation as ''The Accomplish'd Maid''. --] (]) 08:30, 24 May 2013 (UTC)


== Many new illustrations from Ricordi now available ==
Ah, Grove. I'm getting a little disillusioned with them after their recent series of whoppers. :) Anyhow, there are saying that she was called "La Cecchinia". Piccinni's had so many different titles, I suspect because impresarios just called it what they thought would get the punters into the theatre in that town. lists zillions. So every printed souvenir libretto is going to have a different title. We could title it ], or simply "La Cecchina" and cover the issue with a hatnote: ''"For the singer known as "La Cecchina" see ].'' You normally don't need a DAB page for only two uses. My own hunch (borne out by Google) is that most people typing in "La Cecchina" are looking for the Piccinni opera . - ] (]) 12:54, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
<!-- ] 11:27, 31 August 2029 (UTC) -->{{User:ClueBot III/DoNotArchiveUntil|1882870074}}
As part of the ], the most important historical archive in Italy about music, we have just uploaded hundreds of new quality images: photos and portraits of musicians, sketches, drawings, illustrations of operas. Many Misplaced Pages articles will finally have an illustration! You can find all images in ] (]). Thank you in advance. --] (]) 16:51, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
:Thank YOU, ]. What a treasure trove! ] (]) 17:37, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
: Looks great and promising! --] (]) 17:40, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
:Yes, many thanks for all these great images! Have added some of them to articles already.] (]) 20:55, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
::{{ping|Marco Chemello (WMIT)}} Are there any images the Ricordi Archive would like a restoration done of? I'd be delighted to do a few in thanks. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">''']''' <sup>(])</sup><sub>Has about 7.5% of all ]</sub></span> 04:16, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
:In the meantime, ]. Would have liked more resolution on that - featured pictures generally require 1500px on the smallest side, though that one's close enough it might slip through - but I've been wanting us to have a good pic of Puccini for ''years'', and am glad this lets that happen. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">''']''' <sup>(])</sup><sub>Has about 7.5% of all ]</sub></span> 07:33, 17 September 2020 (UTC)


::Dear {{ping|Adam Cuerden}}, thank you for your interest and for your work! Most images requiring restoration are in the ], but the resolution is not high. We uploaded higher resolution images in the ] and ] categories, see if you find some interesting for you. --] (]) 08:07, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
Well, OK, I '''propose''' to move it to 'La Cecchina' with hat note as sugested by VDT, and redirects everywhere else; and to change the first sentence along the lines proposed by RA - any objections?--] (]) 13:29, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
::I've loaded up my favourite dozen into my to-do list. Probably going to start with ]. I don't suppose you could beg them for a high-resolution image related to the Ricordis? ] looks like a decent choice. Although I'll also be doing ] <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">''']''' <sup>(])</sup><sub>Has about 7.5% of all ]</sub></span> 02:11, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
:From everything I've seen the opera was not called ''La Cecchina'' until 1928 and later. I suggest creating the redirects per Voce and rewriting the article somewhat, but leaving the title of the article on the opera as it currently is. --] (]) 20:08, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
:: OK I will put this on my to do list,on the lines you suggest.--] (]) 20:11, 24 May 2013 (UTC)


:::Dear {{ping|Adam Cuerden}}, thank you. I'm asking Ricordi for some hi-res images, but it may require some time. Consider also some other group image like ] (some of them already used in articles). --] (]) 08:17, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
== Resources for 17th & 18th century French opera and theatre ==


:::I shall be working through as many as I can manage. Just would feel odd to me to get this wonderful release and not do a restoration to celebrate what made the archive, y'know? <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">''']''' <sup>(])</sup><sub>Has about 7.5% of all ]</sub></span> 09:24, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
* – maintained by the ]. A rich database and image bank concentrating on the "non-official" theatrical troupes and their productions in seventeenth and eighteenth century Paris (in French only).
<gallery mode=packed caption="Completed restorations. (] marks ])" heights=170px>
File:Giacomo Puccini (1924) - Archivio Storico Ricordi FOTO003293 - Restoration.jpg|] ]
File:Gabrielle Ray (c. 1910) - Archivio Storico Ricordi FOTO002691 - Restoration.jpg|] ]
File:Collina presso Nagasaki, bozzetto di Alexandre Bailly, Marcel Jambon per Madama Butterfly (1906) - Archivio Storico Ricordi ICON000079 - Restoration.jpg|] '']'', act 1
File:Rosa Raisa (1917) - Archivio Storico Ricordi FOTO002701 - Restoration.jpg|] ]
File:Wally (soprano), figurino di Adolf Hohenstein per La Wally (1892) - Archivio Storico Ricordi ICON004639 - Restoration.jpg|] '']'', act 1 costume for Wally.
File:Tavola 5, bozzetto di Gebrüder Brückner per Tannhäuser (s.d.) - Archivio Storico Ricordi ICON011721 - Restoration, crop.jpg|] '']'', act 3
File:Vasta spianata presso Courtray, bozzetto di Giuseppe Palanti per Edgar (s.d.) - Archivio Storico Ricordi ICON000128 B.jpg|] '']'' (didn't need restoration)
File:Maria Carrara Verdi, Barberina Strepponi, Giuseppe Verdi, Giuditta Ricordi, Teresa Stolz, Umberto Campanari, Giulio Ricordi, Leopoldo Metlicovitz (1900) - Archivio storico Ricordi FOTO003107 - Restoration.jpg|] <small>'''Seated:''' ], ], ], and ]. '''Standing:''' ], ], ], and ]</small>
File:Amilcare Ponchielli (before 1886) - Archivio Storico Ricordi FOTO000794 - Restoration.jpg|] ]
File:Ricchi giardini nel Palazzo di Monforte a Palermo, bozzetto di Filippo Peroni per I Vespri siciliani (s.d.) - Archivio Storico Ricordi ICON000132 - Restoration.jpg|'']'', act 5
File:Ciro Pinsuti (before 1888) - Archivio Storico Ricordi FOTO001598 - Restoration.jpg|] (Much too small to be featured, but that mark on his nose annoyed me)
File:Napoli, strada Acquaquilia, bozzetto di Riccardo Salvadori per A Basso Porto (1894) - Archivio Storico Ricordi ICON002556.jpg|] '']'' (didn't need resyoration)
File:Al quartiere latino, bozzetto di Adolf Hohenstein per La Bohème (1896) - Archivio Storico Ricordi ICON000086 - Restoration.jpg|] '']'', act 2 set design
</gallery>


From these treasures, do we have something about operas by Rossini - Pacini - Respighi? --] (]) 17:00, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
* – excellent database and image bank for French opera and theatre in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries (in French and English).


I think Rossini and Pacini are a little early. There was a ''Belfagor''image, but it was a mislabelled ''Il Piccolo do Haydn''. We can hope the real ''Belfagor'' is uploaded in the next batch. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">''']''' <sup>(])</sup><sub>Has about 7.6% of all ]</sub></span> 17:16, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
] (]) 17:46, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
::''Belfagor'' is on the list for next. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">''']''' <sup>(])</sup><sub>Has about 7.7% of all ]</sub></span>


== Opera Infobox update == == Talk:Pacific Repertory Theatre ==


Project members may wish to comment at ] where there is an ongoing discussion related to the notability of the PRT and more broadly theatre organizations. I have included this notice here as the PRT has staged light operas/musicals in the past. All opinions are welcome.] (]) 12:59, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
Following discussions here last March {archived in ]), this is been under development at ]. It is now in a usable state with complete documentation and three illustrative examples. It has been kept to only the most basic fields, with minimum scope for misleading oversimplification and/or bloat. The box could be a useful option in that it allows for more interesting images in the lead (although the composer's image can always be used the box). Also, the ], which currently are the standard "top of article" devices, are now duplicated in many cases by the new horizontal footers that we have for many of the major opera composers. See ] for the current list.


==Brother and Sister==
My recommendation would be to add this infobox as ''option'' in the ] and in the ] of the main OP page, with the proviso that it is not obligatory, and that they should be used with common sense and an awareness of the needs of particular articles. Please take a look at ''']''' and discuss here whether we should add this as an option in our Guide pages. To keep this discussion on track, any detailed suggestions for amendments/improvements, and examples of alternative boxes should be made at ] (not pasted in here). ] (]) 11:57, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
I recently added a page on ''Brother and Sister'' as a stub article connected to ], who recorded an aria from it, but it was converted to a draft for insufficient sourcing. It looks like it's going to need offline research much like my article on ]. Anyone care to help? --] (]) 08:18, 4 November 2024 (UTC)


== Kaoli Isshiki ==
:I am deeply depressed by the prosepct of the amount of debate which will arise from this initiative, which would be better spent on creating articles. But just to kick off - and quite apart from any debate as to whether such templates are appropriate - as regards your proposed template for the 'Queen of Spades' - why is the native name given as 'Pikovaya dama', when the native name is 'Пиковая дама' (and not, by the way, as given in the article 'Пи́ковая дама'). Nothing prevents you giving the transcription, but it is wrong to give the impression that the Latin alphabet transcription is the 'native name'. And why is 'Pique dame' given as an alternative title for English Misplaced Pages? It may have possibly have been used in the old days in Germany , but it is not as far as I am aware used as an alternative title today in either the UK or US, or on recordings (contrary to the feeble claim made in the citation given in the article that 'it is now also used in English' - if indeed that is a quote from the source cited, as the wording is ambiguous and the phrase I have cited is not in quotes). Best, --] (]) 18:02, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
A discussion is going on for ], a soprano from Japan based in France. -- ] (]) 17:47, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
::Observe the use of Pique Dame as the title in English . A good point about the native title rendering, though! I'll fix that in the example. ] (]) 18:09, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
:::: The examples of 'Píque dame' are fascinating. Discounting those that date from 1910 and 1922, it seems that when the opera was given in ''Russian'' in the US it was, up to the 1990s, (?still is) given the title 'Pique dame'. Mystifying. But if it's a usage, it's a usage, of course. I am correcting the Russian title in the article.--] (]) 20:29, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
:::::Actually, its entry in the 2006 ''Grove Book of Operas'' is "QUEEN OF SPADES, THE ". So, I thinks it's a bit more than simple usage. I've added the Russian to the example box as well. ] (]) 06:04, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
:::i still favor the composer navbox at the upper right of the article. Despite all the nice work done on this info box, the navbox is much more useful, and more convenient in this location than at the bottom of the page. I also favor making this consistent. If there is a vertical navbox for a composer, it should be used for every opera by that composer. --] (]) 18:42, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
::::I appreciate the infobox, and wonder if some kind of information that a navbox is available for a composer might be part of it, --] (]) 19:12, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
:::::That kind of "non-information", i.e., sending the reader to the bottom of the same page or sending them off to a completely separate template page, does not belong in the infobox, in my view, and I'm ''very'' against that. This has been discussed at length in Archive 113. There is, however, a facility in the infobox to actually list the other operas by the composer, as in Example 3. ] (]) 06:12, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
::::::I did not say "send" them away, just: "some kind of information that a navbox is available". - I tried ], would not know how to add that it was first performed in Swedish, not knowing that title. - I offered Carmen on the talk. --] (]) 06:36, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
{{outdent}}You don't add that it was first performed in a Swedish translation, an "accident" of opera scheduling. That kind of thing belongs in the article, not the box. Gerda, the whole point of the box is to keep it simple. The title in Swedish was also "Lolita". Saying that a navbox to other operas by that composer is available (however you do it) does not belong in the infobox about the opera, especially when that navbox is right there at the bottom of the page. If it's not at the bottom of the page, then list the operas in the box in the collapsible "other" field. ] (]) 07:05, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
:"Accident"? Lack of obtaining the rites. - Understand the other, fine. --] (]) 07:22, 4 June 2013 (UTC)


== ] ==
::My point stands about keeping the box simple and leaving details to the article. See also the discussion at ]. Re ''Carmen'', I added a clarification to your comment on ] where you invited people there to "help discuss". I gave a link to this discussion. I would appreciate it if simultaneous discussions were not started all over the place. The original plan was to develop the box to a reasonably stable, usable state, then bring it here for discussion about whether or not to provide this as an ''option'' in our Article Guide. The discussion has just started and I don't think is helpful to start adding it to articles immediately and/or proposing it on the talk pages of other articles. It completely muddies the waters and makes the whole thing look like a ''fait accompli'', when it is not. Can we please have some patience and let this discussion take its course. ] (]) 07:35, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
:::Sorry, Carmen was not started, but a continued discussion. - I started ], please check, and I had no intentions to do more, --] (]) 07:52, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
::::Yes, you had proposed an infobox on ''Carmen'', shortly before it was to appear as ]. Your new comment and section was misleading. If you meant it as a new proposal to add the box to that article. Then you should have said so, not imply that people should discuss {{tl|Infobox opera}} there, because that's how it read. I also think you were wrong to jump the gun and add it to ''Nixon in China'' (another featured article) when this discussion is less than 24 hours old. ] (]) 08:06, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
:::::I did NOT propose to add the infobox to the Carmen article, just coming from ] (the discussion continued). - I don't know the expression "jump the gun" but only added the infobox to an article of ] I know well enough. ] members are committed to accessibility. --] (]) 09:35, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
::::::It was a joint work with Brianboulton, and with the community for that matter. I am not getting involved with this. I do not intend to take any action, but that is not because I like or dislike it, but because a discussion is under way about it, (here, though better on article talk). You all work it out please (exiting discussion).--] (]) 10:17, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
:::::::Sorry, I missed that it was joint work. Then let's wait if everybody agrees (with me) that the infobox is better than the list of his other works we had so far, --] (]) 10:26, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
{{outdent}}I happen to agree that the infobox is an improvement on the old navbox in in that article, but that's not the point. I repeat, the original plan was to develop the box to a reasonably stable, usable state, then bring it here for discussion about whether or not to provide this as an ''option'' in our Article Guide and to discuss how best to implement the change, if there's a consensus for it, because it has a lot of implications for the previous consistency of opera articles. ] refers to the fact that as soon as the discussion started, you went ahead and started adding the infobox to opera articles anyway. ''Nixon in China'' has been a featured article for 2 years without this "accessibility feature" and now it needs to have an infobox added immediately? Obviously, if you're going to start adding infoboxes to articles without waiting for the discussion here, you will. I simply do not think it's helpful at this point, and see no reason why you cannot wait a few days. ] (]) 10:36, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
:I would prefer that it be removed, until such time as there is broad agreement. Really, I did not want to be dragged into this and I'm not best pleased by this development.--] (]) 16:14, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
===Consistency issues===
Trying to get this discussion back on track... We currently have 2,088 articles on individual operas. I think we have to accept that adding this box as an option to the Article Guide means that for quite a while, probably 100 years :-), opera articles will no longer have one consistent "look"—they'd have two. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, or at least so bad that we simply fossilize everything as it has been for the last 6 years. Also, there are currently a lot of obscure opera articles which have don't a composer navbox either. And we already have articles like ] and ], which by consensus use footer boxes (] and ]) that include the composers' other (non-opera) stage works. But, if we do add it to the Guide and editors start adding it to articles, I do think that as a project we should priortise making all the operas by a single composer consistent, rather than adding the box ]. Some members find the current vertical navbox convenient. Others actually prefer the horizontal footer (at least from past discussions). But I'm not sure that a minor inconvenience for editors (shifting to footer navboxes) necessarily outweighs the benefits of an infobox with its increased image flexibility, etc. ] (]) 11:29, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
:Thanks for your thoughts, but I don't think it's a problem. Actually the infobox "looks" quite like the former right-corner navbox, especially if the image is the one of the composer. - I see it just as an addition, not a major change. Patiently yours, --] (]) 11:34, 4 June 2013 (UTC)


I had the rare chance to see this opera by ], - a great experience! -- ] (]) 23:51, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
*I'll be in deepest darkest Tuscany for the next week, with only intermittent access, if at all. In the meantime, I've left notes on the talk pages of all the members who participated in the March discussion, letting them know about the new box and this discussion. Best, ] (]) 16:29, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

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Note Do not archive this section. Voceditenore (talk) 10:17, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

Voceditenore (talk) 10:53, 10 January 2013 (UTC) Updated by Voceditenore (talk) 07:57, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

Opera articles: Recordings - which to exclude?

Note Do not archive this section. Voceditenore (talk) 10:17, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

As there has been no further discussion on this since early December 2010, I've archived this here. But this is a topic we may want to revisit at some point, re expanding/clarifying the current article guidelines. Voceditenore (talk) 08:37, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

The latest discussion (January 2014) is archived here. – Voceditenore (talk) 09:12, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Articles needing libretto links

Note Do not archive this section. Voceditenore (talk) 10:17, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

Note that for now some of the Rossini librettos can still be accessed from the list on this page on Karadar, but it will require adding those new links to the articles, and I'm not sure how long it will be before Karadar closes that loop hole. Anyhow, here's the list of operas so far where I've removed dead links and there is currently no other alternative. It's also possible to recover some of the karadar links via the Wayback machine, as was done at L'éclair, although it's a bit fiddly. If you add a new link, just strike through the opera name(s) below. Voceditenore (talk) 16:55, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Help! Does anyone know how to access Karadar these days? It appears to be a dead link - and I've tried to get into it via a couple of ways. Viva-Verdi (talk) 16:15, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
Hi Viva-Verdi. It appears to have disappeared in all its guises–.com, .org. and .it. I have a feeling they ran into copyright problems with some of their stuff. It's not showing up on Google searches at all and see this wacky note. I have found this other site which has links to zillions of libretti. Hopefully, you'll find the one(s) you're looking for. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 18:06, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
List

Le domino noir (only score found), Sigurd (opera), Ciro in Babilonia, Sigismondo, Ricciardo e Zoraide, Eduardo e Cristina, L'equivoco stravagante, I Capuleti e i Montecchi, Médée (Charpentier), Emilia di Liverpool, Francesca di Foix, Il signor Bruschino

Requested opera templates

Note Do not archive this section. Voceditenore (talk) 10:17, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

Archived at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Opera/Archive 120. Voceditenore (talk) 09:46, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

Place new requests here. Voceditenore (talk) 10:29, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

Almanacco Amadeus – Che disastro!

Note Do not archive this section. Voceditenore (talk) 10:17, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

It's disappeared again. All links now redirect to this site. I'm keeping an eye out to see if the almanacco re-surfaces, but so far it's nowhere to be found on the new site. Grrrr! Voceditenore (talk) 15:49, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

It's finally available again: almanac-gherardo-casaglia.com. --Rodomonte (talk) 22:16, 3 January 2018 (UTC)
I attempted to adapt Template:Almanacco to the new URL and its parameters; it seems to work. Lamentably, I discovered only later that Rodomonte had already modified de:Vorlage:Almanacco similarly – that template hadn't been linked to the EN template via interwiki links (now corrected). -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 14:18, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
Thanks so much for that, Rodomonte and Michael! Not only for the good news but for fixing the template too. Brilliant! Voceditenore (talk) 16:16, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Many new illustrations from Ricordi now available

As part of the GLAM project with the Ricordi Archive, the most important historical archive in Italy about music, we have just uploaded hundreds of new quality images: photos and portraits of musicians, sketches, drawings, illustrations of operas. Many Misplaced Pages articles will finally have an illustration! You can find all images in Commons:Category:Media from Archivio Storico Ricordi‎ (here divided by category). Thank you in advance. --Marco Chemello (WMIT) (talk) 16:51, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

Thank YOU, Marco. What a treasure trove! Voceditenore (talk) 17:37, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
Looks great and promising! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:40, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
Yes, many thanks for all these great images! Have added some of them to articles already.Smeat75 (talk) 20:55, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
@Marco Chemello (WMIT): Are there any images the Ricordi Archive would like a restoration done of? I'd be delighted to do a few in thanks. Adam Cuerden Has about 7.5% of all FPs 04:16, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
In the meantime, File:Giacomo Puccini (1924) - Archivio Storico Ricordi FOTO003293 - Restoration.jpg. Would have liked more resolution on that - featured pictures generally require 1500px on the smallest side, though that one's close enough it might slip through - but I've been wanting us to have a good pic of Puccini for years, and am glad this lets that happen. Adam Cuerden Has about 7.5% of all FPs 07:33, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
Dear @Adam Cuerden:, thank you for your interest and for your work! Most images requiring restoration are in the portraits, but the resolution is not high. We uploaded higher resolution images in the Costume designs and Set designs categories, see if you find some interesting for you. --Marco Chemello (WMIT) (talk) 08:07, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
I've loaded up my favourite dozen into my to-do list. Probably going to start with File:Gabrielle Ray (c. 1910) - Archivio Storico Ricordi FOTO002691.jpg. I don't suppose you could beg them for a high-resolution image related to the Ricordis? File:Giacomo Puccini, Tito II Ricordi, André Charles Messager - Archivio Storico Ricordi FOTO000883.jpg looks like a decent choice. Although I'll also be doing File:Maria Carrara Verdi, Barberina Strepponi, Giuseppe Verdi, Giuditta Ricordi, Teresa Stolz, Umberto Campanari, Giulio Ricordi, Leopoldo Metlicovitz (1900) - Archivio storico Ricordi FOTO003107.jpg Adam Cuerden Has about 7.5% of all FPs 02:11, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
Dear @Adam Cuerden:, thank you. I'm asking Ricordi for some hi-res images, but it may require some time. Consider also some other group image like File:Gerolamo Rovetta, Marco Praga, Giannino Antona Traversi, Augusto Novelli, Domenico Oliva, Renato Simoni, Sabatino Lopez (1907) - Archivio storico Ricordi FOTO002705.jpg (some of them already used in articles). --Marco Chemello (WMIT) (talk) 08:17, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
I shall be working through as many as I can manage. Just would feel odd to me to get this wonderful release and not do a restoration to celebrate what made the archive, y'know? Adam Cuerden Has about 7.5% of all FPs 09:24, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

From these treasures, do we have something about operas by Rossini - Pacini - Respighi? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:00, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

I think Rossini and Pacini are a little early. There was a Belfagorimage, but it was a mislabelled Il Piccolo do Haydn. We can hope the real Belfagor is uploaded in the next batch. Adam Cuerden Has about 7.6% of all FPs 17:16, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Belfagor is on the list for next. Adam Cuerden Has about 7.7% of all FPs

Talk:Pacific Repertory Theatre

Project members may wish to comment at Talk:Pacific Repertory Theatre where there is an ongoing discussion related to the notability of the PRT and more broadly theatre organizations. I have included this notice here as the PRT has staged light operas/musicals in the past. All opinions are welcome.4meter4 (talk) 12:59, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

Brother and Sister

I recently added a page on Brother and Sister as a stub article connected to Lily Pons, who recorded an aria from it, but it was converted to a draft for insufficient sourcing. It looks like it's going to need offline research much like my article on catalogue aria. Anyone care to help? --Scottandrewhutchins (talk) 08:18, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Kaoli Isshiki

A discussion is going on for Kaoli Isshiki, a soprano from Japan based in France. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:47, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Christmas Eve (opera)

I had the rare chance to see this opera by Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov, - a great experience! -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:51, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

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