Revision as of 12:50, 23 July 2013 editNo More Mr Nice Guy (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers8,461 edits →Statement by No More Mr Nice Guy← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 17:46, 25 December 2024 edit undoSeraphimblade (talk | contribs)Edit filter managers, Administrators46,190 edits →Result concerning Rasteem: Comment | ||
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== |
==M.Bitton== | ||
{{hat|result=M.Bitton is warned against ] and reminded to abide by ]. ] (]) 06:35, 19 December 2024 (UTC)}} | |||
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> | |||
===Request concerning M.Bitton=== | |||
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br>Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|XDanielx}} 07:55, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|M.Bitton}}<p>{{ds/log|M.Bitton}}</p> | |||
===Request concerning Neo.=== | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : ] (]) 16:36, 15 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Neo.}} | |||
] | |||
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | |||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] | |||
I'll limit this to ] related issues for now, since they're easiest to evaluate with minimal context. | |||
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | |||
# {{tq|xDanielx being disingenuous again (what they mean by "no explanation" is "no explanation that they agree with")}} | |||
;Diffs and explanations of problem: | |||
# {{tq|casting aspersions to justify your disruptive editing is about as low as it gets ... this is extremely disingenuous ... made-up rules and demands to satisfy you}} | |||
] completely transformed the article ] from one violating multiple policies (particularly, ], ], and ]) into one that, while not perfect, was at least minimally compliant (see ). ] , failing to even recognize DS's concerns, making an unfounded analogy. From that point forward (July 6), Neo and a few others began a series of "defenses" on the talk page, most of which failed to address policies, and in Neo.'s case, crossed over into ]. | |||
# {{tq|please don't make-up another rule ... maybe that's because you only see what you want to see}} (partly struck per admin request) | |||
# , {{tq|Misplaced Pages is not a collection of every piece of alleged garbage}} | |||
# {{tq|When someone keeps misrepresenting the sources (again and again), then I will rightly assume disingenuousness}} | |||
# {{tq|I'm starting to question your motives}} | |||
# {{tq|Please refrain from repeating your lies}} ( to {{tq|You're being extremely disingenuous. You misrepresented the sources (clearly to push a POV)}} | |||
# {{tq|I don't take lessons from those who misrepresent the sources and edit war over ]}} | |||
# {{tq|please don't attribute your nonsense to me (this is totally unacceptable)}} | |||
# {{tq|Bobfrombrockley is busy adding whatever garbage they can find}} | |||
# {{tq|you've been very busy adding whatever garbage you could find to the article}} | |||
# {{tq|Do you expect me to explain to you what "freedom of expression" is?}} | |||
# {{tq|I'm done wasting my time with this nonsense ... Your self-serving opinion is irrelevant}} | |||
# offensive humor | |||
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : | |||
The problem begins in ], where Neo attempted to argue that ] (including ]) don't apply here, despite the fact that they apply everywhere in Misplaced Pages (see . He goes further and says that academic sources are "academic crap" and "conspiracy theories" "written to make money". He continues to hold this position in ], in which he . Later, Neo erroneously states . | |||
I'm not aware of CTOP sanctions. The seems to show four blocks, but they're not that recent and I'm not sure how relevant they are. | |||
; If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]): | |||
On , Neo added what he claimed was an RfC...but the phrasing was so extremely biased that I removed the tag and indicated that such a leading question was unacceptable. | |||
* Was a subject of a previous ARBPIA AE ]. | |||
* Made a couple other statements in ARBPIA AE requests: , | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | |||
On , Neo stated that my and ]'s only reason for being involved in the article was because of "prior disputes on Jainism articles"; actually, TRJ had a dispute with Neo., which I stepped into because, as with this article, Neo was attempting to keep an older version of articles that violated policies in spite of TRJ's improvements. My reason for involvement in this article was originally as an uninvolved admin responding to an edit request that I became aware of because it was discussed on a user talk page I watch. I've since explicitly stated that I consider myself ] and am not taking admin actions on the article. Neo. repeated this claim . | |||
Another 15 diffs were (rightfully) removed by an admin for exceeding the diff limit as well as falling outside PIA scope; just mentioning for transparency. They might be relevant on a different forum but admittedly not here. — ] <sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub>\<sup>]</sup> 16:37, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
{{yo|theleekycauldron}} I planned to file something after the "garbage" comments (about BobFromBrockley) on ]. I reconsidered after being surprised by M.Bitton's there. Admittedly M.Bitton's comments in the thread above prompted me to reconsider again, but that wasn't about the fact that I might receive a warning there (irrespective of M.Bitton's participation); it was just about me personally being on the receiving end of some personal attacks. I don't really follow why me being emotionally affected by the conduct would affect the legitimacy of the report. Most of the incivility was directed at other users, and letting this conduct continue wouldn't seem fair to them. — ] <sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub>\<sup>]</sup> 16:41, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
On , Neo. insinuated that RegentsPark, the previous protected admin who had protected a version resembling DS's preferred version to stop an edit war, and chose the current version as the ], would come back to the article again to intentionally choose DS's version to favor him. | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
On , Neo. proposed a new change to the article, which quite obviously violated ], later, ] noticed (and I confirmed) that Neo was misrepresenting the sources, either through lack of comprehension or deliberate POV pushing (see ] and ]). | |||
===Discussion concerning M.Bitton=== | |||
During this whole shebang, Neo. filed two ] complaints. Both were dismissed as being at best a misrepresented content dispute and at worst "baseless" and ]/]. See ] and ]. He also made similar accusations at ] (see ]), which included an accusation of tag-teaming, and was closed as not appropriate for the noticeboard. | |||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | |||
====Statement by M.Bitton==== | |||
Not content with edit warring, assuming bad faith and casting aspersions (see ]), they now decided to ] and file a retaliatory report. ] (]) 09:56, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:{{re|Vanamonde93|Ealdgyth}} I just want to draw your attention to their aspersions casting {{tq|tag-team revert|q=yes}} (], while striking it, leaves no doubt about they believe) and the fact that they falsely accused me: of ignoring their ping (when I was logged out) and reverting without an explanation (when, in fact, I did provide one). ] (]) 18:04, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
::{{re|Ealdgyth}} I agree and will make sure that doesn't happen in the future, regardless of what's coming the other way. I should know better than let myself take the bait, but lesson learnt nonetheless. ] (]) 18:14, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::{{re|Valereee}} sure. ] (]) 00:36, 11 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by (username)==== | |||
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. --> | |||
===Result concerning M.Bitton=== | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. --> | |||
*<!-- | |||
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* This is shamelessly and obviously a retaliatory filing, and I'm leaning towards a one- or two-way interaction ban to stop the back-and-forth sniping. But I'd still draw uninvolved admins' attention to ] and ask what their thoughts are. That seems like pretty battleground-y behavior to me. ] (] • she/her) 14:27, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:I see it as a bit retaliatory, but we do need to stop this sniping, especially at AE and other such venues. ] (]) 14:36, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*::Yeah, a logged warning sounds like enough to me, given their responses so far. ] (] • she/her) 00:36, 11 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*Yes, this is retaliatory, and at the same time, M. Bitton's language is not acceptable. Bad behavior should be addressed at an administrator noticeboard, or in a civil post to a user talk page, not with what SFR accurately describes as sniping. I would log a warning for casting aspersions. ] (]) 17:15, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
* I agree with SFR and Vanamonde93 that the language used does not help the topic area at all. I don't know if M.Bitton's had a long history of logged warnings before (I'm a bit busy trying to get the farm ready for an artic clipper coming in) but I'm fine with a logged warning. But the filer should be aware that they need to also try to avoid retaliatory-filing look in the future... ] (]) 17:48, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
** I'm not happy about Daniel's behavior (but will try to find time to look at it in the earlier filing to avoid getting this one off track) but, M.Bitton, your comments are not just sub-par, but not at all what editors should be directing at others. An acknowledgment of that and working to avoid that in the future is something you need to seriously consider if you're not going to end up sanctioned in the future. ] (]) 18:08, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I also think a logged warning should be adequate here, particularly given the limited sanctions history and the . Personally I'm not bothered by the timing of this report in light of xDanielx's explanation, although it's wise to avoid even the appearance of retaliation when you're at AE. ] (]) 22:44, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I don't disagree that this is retaliatory, but that doesn't moot the issue. M.Bitton does tend to approach editing in a battleground-y way, and their language often escalates rather than de-escalates. I'd very much like you to start using de-escalating language, {{u|M.Bitton}}. Can you discuss that? ] (]) 00:27, 11 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:I meant can you discuss it ''here'', but maybe I wasn't clear. ] (]) 15:56, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*Have not read this but will note that {{u| xDanielx}} is at their word limit. Daniel if you want to post anything else please get an extension first from an uninvolved administrator. ] (]) 02:48, 11 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*Comment to stave off the bot. Looks like the proposed resolution here is a warning for battleground behavior, does that still seem the way to go? ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 09:07, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:A logged warning, sure. ] (]) 15:54, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*::Agreed, and I also agree we should put this to bed. ] (]) 20:52, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
{{hab}} | |||
==Ethiopian Epic== | |||
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> | |||
===Request concerning Ethiopian Epic=== | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Tinynanorobots}} 11:23, 12 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Ethiopian Epic}}<p>{{ds/log|Ethiopian Epic}}</p> | |||
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] | |||
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | |||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | |||
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.--> | |||
# created during the Yasuke case and went active when it ended. First 11 edits were to Government of Japan. In one case three edits were used to write one sentence. | |||
# Manually reverted the lead back to how it was in September. | |||
# Falsely Claimed cited material was OR. (G | |||
# Falsely Claimed cited material was unsourced | |||
# It took an ANI report to get him to use the article talk page. His defense was accusations and denial. | |||
# He reverted to a version that went against consensus established on the talk page and contained a falsely sourced quote. | |||
# Engages in sealioning | |||
# Removes a well sourced line from Yasuke as well as reverted an edit that was the result of BRD. He has now started disputes with me on all three Yasuke related articles. | |||
# starts disputing a new section of | |||
# Brought again to ANI, he claims that I didn't get consensus for changes, even though I had discussed them on talk prior to making them. | |||
# He keeps mentioning ONUS, and asking me to discuss it, in response to me discussing. | |||
# Used a non-controversial revert to hide his edit warring. | |||
# did the same thing on List of foreign-born samurai in Japan. | |||
# He also repeatedly complains that he doesn't like the definition because it is vague and claims that his preferred version is "status quo" | |||
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : | |||
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.--> | |||
# Explanation | |||
# Explanation | |||
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):[ | |||
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*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on (see the system log linked to above). | |||
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) : | |||
<!-- Many arbitration remedies require a prior warning before sanctions may be imposed. Link to the warning here. --> | |||
#Warned on by {{user|Qwyrxian}} | |||
#] contains a series of edits by several admins about edit warring | |||
#{{user|Darkness Shines}} left the formal, templated warning on | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | ; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | ||
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I am not sure if this is actually a AE matter, but was told to go here by multiple admins. The biggest issue is the Editing against consensus on accompanied by bludgeoning. However, there are signs of bad faith editing on all three pages where I have interacted with EE. It could also be a CIR issue or it could be some sort of harassment. I don't know. I just know that EE first avoided providing clear reasons for reverting edits and has been trying to engage in Status Quo Stonewalling. He keeps citing Onus or Burden and asks me not to make a change until the discussion is over. Often, this doesn't make sense in context, because the change was in place. He has made false claims about sources and what they say. His editing on Yasuke is not so much a problem as the discussion which comes across as gaslighting. | |||
@Sandstein: The warning on July 9, left on the article's talk page, is sufficient to meet the warning requirements of sanctions; all that is requires is that editors be aware that sanctions are in place on an article, not that a personal, templated warning be left for that person specifically. There are certainly actionable diffs after the July 9 date; most notably the tendentiousness displayed in proposing and making editors waste time in arguing about a blatantly POV recommended change to the article. While article space problems are more "obvious" than talk page one's, ] and ] problems on talk pages can drive away good faith editors and be equally destructive to the encyclopedia. ] (]) 22:14, 16 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
:I was going to accept Sandstein's argument wrt the the warnings, as I have no problem with requiring strict adherence to rules. However, I'm worried that Neo's second statement itself is evidence that the problem has not gone away--rather, that the disruptive behavior is merely on hold while this discussion is open. To me, that statement still clearly shows errors in understanding of preferred editing behaviors, as well as still attributes unwarranted motives to myself and regentspark. So...perhaps a stern warning will do (along with some administrative watching of the talk page to ensure future behavior is acceptable)...but my experience with this type of POV pushing--so strong that the POV-pusher doesn't even realize that they're warping everything, including our policies, to try to make things conform to "the truth"--doesn't get better with time, or even with warnings. ] (]) 21:47, 17 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
:@], I am not an expert on proxies or socks. All the IPs have only posted on the one article and have advocated an odd definition for samurai, that doesn't apply to the article. All except the first one have just reverted. It is possible that this is just laziness, or lack of confidence in writing skills etc. After all, the false citation was added by another user and was just kept. I found the latest one the most suspect, in part because of it first reverting to the incorrect definition, before restoring most of the text and second because of falsely citing policy. I am not sure if they are proxies, but I hoped that someone here would have the expertise to know. I don't think the proxy evidence is the most important. EE is either acting in bad faith or has CIR problems. The later is possible, because he thanked City of Silver during ANI, although City of Silver has been the harshest critic of EE's behaviour towards me. | |||
:I think there should be some important context to the quote: {{tq|"those who serve in close attendance to the nobility"}}. The quote can be found in several books, on ] it is sourced to an article published in Black Belt Magazine in the 80s by ], where he describes the origin of the word samurai. He is describing the early phases of its meaning in that quote, before it became to have martial connotations. It also refers to the time before 900. The earliest foreign samurai on the list was in the late 1500s. It also doesn't apply to most of the persons on the list. Finally, it is not mentioned in Vaporis's book, which EE keeps adding as the source. He hasn't even made the effort to copy the citation from ]. | |||
:@] | |||
Not only did I have a dispute with Symphony Regalia about samurai being "retainers to lords", but also on Yasuke about "As a samurai" and on ] EE made the same reverts as SR. EE had with his first edit in all three articles continued a dispute that I had already had with SR. | |||
:@] I actually don't have a problem with you discussing things. Your talk page posts aren't really discussion though. Your main argument on all three pages has been a shifting of the burden of proof. You don't really discuss content and continually ask me not to make changes without discussing first, and then make changes yourself. I understand that your position is that your preferred version is the status quo. However, my edits regarding the definition on ] , were discussed and consensus was clearly gotten. Similarly, my edits on Yasuke were discussed, and even though I didn't use the exact same version as Gitz said, Gitz had suggested using warrior instead of bushi, so I used samurai, because I thought it would be less controversial. | |||
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===Discussion concerning |
===Discussion concerning Ethiopian Epic=== | ||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. |
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | ||
====Statement by Neo.==== | |||
This whole ArbCom concept is new to me. I use mobile. Please give at least 24 hours to study this concept and write my side. Until decision is made, I will not edit any article related to Gujarat, politics or religion. Thanks. ] (]) 18:55, 15 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
It would take very long and very long post if I try to analyse every edit of all users. I may left out something but let me use ] and try to be short. I will talk about things happened before yesterday's edit by User:Utcursch. <br> <br> The whole argument is about whether 'Godhra train burning' section is presenting NPOV. And I don't see it. The section begins with "was reported to have been attacked and set alight by a crowd of Muslims". Then section goes on citing Banerjee report, Hazard center report, Citizen's tribunal report, independent observers and Ainslie Embree to tell reader that the fire was an accident and muslims got nothing to do with it. Shah-Nanavati report use 'conspiracy by locals' wording, not Muslims. But as it indicate Muslim involvement, DS has done ] in next sentence to tell reader that Shah-Nanavati commission was partial and corrupt, attempt to destroy credibility of Shah-Nanavati report. So if a school child or new reader read this section, he/she would believe that the fire on train was an accident. <br> <br> To present other side of the story, i.e 'direct or alleged involvement of Muslim mob', I proposed edit. I am dealing with 4 users single handendly. DS says out of 6 sources, 3 are primary and 1 blog but refuses to tell which. Then he goes on to say that the "locals" word cover 'muslim mob' theory. So my edit is unnecessary. I pointed out to Maunus that 2002 HRW report is already used by DS in the article and 2012 HRW article still quote 2002 report. Now Maunus strange argument that as HRW report is critical of post-Godhra violence, hence I can't use that report for Godhra incident and he accuse me of "misrepresentation". Qwyrxian was silent. I forced him to comment in section. I am attrbuting to sources with direct quotes, but he also accused me of "misrepresentation". The Rahul Jain just occasionaly drops in to 'vote' in favor of DS and goes away without any comment on my proposed edit. <br> <br> The team shows extreme disliking for news or any web sources and insist on 'academic' sources. But in 'Godhra train burning' section, out of 10 sources DS has used 4 news sources to support Banerjee report, Shah-Nanavati report, Citizen's tribunal report. When it comes to supporting their POV, they do use news and web sources, but oppose by others. They discard pre-2010 sources as old and outdated, but goes on using 2002 HRW report and 2003 USCIRF report to support their POV in the article. <br> <br> Initially I assumed good faith in DS and believed that the 'attack by a muslim mob' theory don't exist in his 'academic book' sources. Hence I called those books as 'crap' because I believed that those books are not telling whole story about Godhra. But now I strongly suspect that DS, Maunus and Qwyrxian are cherry picking POV contents from academic sources and as most users don't have access to his academic sources, he is getting away with it. Yesterday User:Utcursch got hold of two books and said that DS has clearly misrepresented Ainslie Embree. I strongly suspect that 'attack by a muslim mob' theory is also discussed in his academic sources but he is making readers believe that it doesn't exist in his book sources or all books talk about only 'accident' theory as real cause. <br> <br> Such tendentious behaviour, gaming the system frustrate users and severely harm quality of wikipedia. I request ArbCom to take appropriate decision to stop their disruptive behaviour. Thank you. ] (]) 17:21, 16 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
==== |
====Statement by Ethiopian Epic==== | ||
This is clear retaliatory filing because I recently didn't agree with Tinynanorobot's , and because I made talk page sections on some recent edits. | |||
I am giving ], ] , ], ] , ], ] , ] , ] as sources. I am attributing quotes to sources. I am ready to bring more hundreds of sources. But the arguments like by Maunus that "Sources talk about attacks against muslims after Godhra, hence I can not use those sources for Godhra incident to show attack by muslims on train" and on this argument attempt to reject all thousands of sources is outragious. Making a team, inserting non-neutral contents and then forbidding any user to include other side of the story, pulling down Rfc to gag my mouth, such things are very serious matter for the wikipedia. If Admins disagree, then better to block me. I can't stand this nonsense. ] (]) 11:20, 17 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
@] That's not true and you are a very obvious alt account with only 26 edits. No one gave you a notification of this discussion and it's not on the Yasuke talk page. This suggests you are the sock puppet of someone here. Your post is also misleading and incorrect it wasn't an insertion. The line you are talking about in Samurai has been there for over 10 years and is normal. I know because I've read it before. Here is a version from 2017 . I don't understand why you are misrepresenting edits and using an alt account. | |||
Was I supposed to comment on the statement of Qwyrxian or was I supposed to make statement on the issue? ] (]) 14:20, 17 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
@] I think he is just fishing. That's why he removed his IP claims. Even his other diffs are just mislabeled regular behavior. It's amusing because Eronymous is the likely alt of Tinynanorobots or someone posting here. I think the way Tinynanorobots edits against clear consensus, skips discussion, and then files frivolous ANI/AE reports with misleading narrative like above is disruptive. Discussion is an easy solution and benefits everyone. I hope he will respect RFC consensus. | |||
====Comment by Neo. on Qwyrxian's statement==== | |||
Much before User:Darkness Shines started replacing article, I had told him to propose his changes on article talkpage. But DS ignored it and started replacing article. I objected and told him on article talkpage to self-revert. Div999 supported DS, while me, Solomon7968, Shii raised questions. But as DS went on replacing article, I reverted all his edits except one concerning BLPPRIMARY. It is never restored till date but Qwyrxian keep talking about it again and again. On that false assumption he reverted my edit. Qw had no idea what DS is doing, when I pointed out he did second mass revert. If there was ever BLPPRIMARY in my revert removed by DS, Qw should give diff, otherwise he should stop raising this issue again and again which potentially misguide users. | |||
====Statement by Relm==== | |||
* I stand by my argument that verified contents can not be removed without explaination. | |||
I am largely unfamiliar with the account in question, but I do frequently check ]. I believe that EthiopianEpic has displayed a clear slant and battleground mindset in their editing in regards to the topic of Yasuke, but that their conduct on the Yasuke page itself so far has generally been in the ballpark of good faith edits. The revert on December 9th was justified, and their topic on November 29th is well within bounds (though I acknowledge that the background of their prior disputes on other pages with Tinynanorobots shows it may be edit warring) given that the two things being reverted was a change that seemed to skirt the prior RFC with agreement being given in a very non-direct way, and the other portion being an addition which had not been discussed on the talk page prior to its implementation (though previous discussions ered on the side of not including it). I am ''not'' accusing Tinynanorobots of any misconduct in any part of that either. | |||
What I will note is that in addition to the sockpuppet IP allegations made by Tinynanorobots, I wanted to lodge that the posting style of EthiopianEpic, as well as their knowledge of much of the previous discussions on the page deep in the archive, led me to suspect that they were an alt of ]. I never found anything conclusive. ] (]) 14:48, 12 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
* Qw should have pointed out which sources and contents in prev version of article violate ] and ]. Qw never did, he left that job for DS and DS also never did. In fact in his second comment on talkpage Qw suggested to DS to discuss changes section by section or take Rfc. I agreed. DS disagreed. Then Qw did U turn, declared himself editor and started asking me to show what is wrong in the draft article of DS I had no access to book sources of DS and was unable to comment on whole draft article of DS in short time. Qw had suggested Rfc to DS, but instead I went for Rfc. Qw removed Rfc tag accusing me of bad behaviour citing ] and saying that standards are extra high for this article. But he didn't know existence of this article until a "week ago". If he have no idea about subject of the article, why he allowed replacement of whole article? He claims standards are extra high but as he had no idea about existence of the article, he never checked whether contents of DS really exists in academic books. Qw says that he might have argued to block DS before. Why suddenly blind faith in DS to allow him to replace whole article which is under ]? * Qw has himself said that he was not aware of existence of article. He has also said on my talkpage that he came on this article after seeing my edit request on RegentsPark talkpage. Also it can be seen from article edit history that The Rahul Jain jumped in on this article only because of me and Qw. | |||
====Statement by Simonm223==== | |||
* My doubt about RegentsPark-DS was not unfounded. Even after ANI discussion, he protected article which had disputed contents of DS. I have no reason to believe that RegentsPark won't do it again. | |||
These two editors have been tangling at WP:AN/I repeatedly. Last time they came there I said that this would likely continue until a third party intervened. And then the thread got archived with no action () so I'm not surprised that the two of them are still tangling. There is evidence that both editors have engaged in a slow-motion edit war. | |||
Both have claimed the other is editing against consensus. Here I will say that it appears TinyNanoRobots is more correct than Ethiopian Epic. Furthermore, while neither editors' comportment has been stellar, as other editors have pointed out, it appears more that EE is following TNR about and giving them a hard time than the alternate. . In the linked AN/I case (above) you'll note EE attempted a boomerang on TNR and was not well-received for the effort. | |||
Frankly my view is that both editors are not editing to the best standards of Misplaced Pages but there is definitely a ''more'' disruptive member of this duo and that is Ethiopian Epic. I think it would probably cut down on the noise considerably if they were encouraged to find somewhere to edit which was not a CTOP subject and if they were encouraged to leave TNR alone. ] (]) 18:05, 12 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
* Maunus has commented only about HRW and UN source. I asked in RSN whether HRW is reliable source and am I misrepresenting. I am not misrepresenting anything. | |||
====Statement by Eronymous==== | |||
* It can be clearly established that Qw and Rahul Jain were not on '2002 Gujarat violence' and I had prior dispute with both related to Jainism articles. There are 4.4 million articles. Now how they suddenly jumped on '2002 Gujarat violence' to support another disputing pair of DS and Maunus is mystery. If this does not fit into definition of tag team, then I retract my accusation and apologize to all concerned. ] (]) 20:25, 17 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
Similar to Relm I check on the ] page every so often, and it seems very likely given the evidence that ] is an alt of ] created to evade his recent ArbCom sanctions, having started editing the day prior to the case closure. Of note to this is the of Symphony_Regalia on ] was him attempting to insert the line "who served as retainers to lords (including '']'')" - curiously enough, Ethiopian Epic's on ] (and , having just prior made 11 minor ones in a short timeframe to reach autoconfirmed status) is him attempting to insert the same controversial line that was reverted before. | |||
Symphony_Regalia has a history of utilising socks to edit Yasuke/Samurai related topics and is indefinitely blocked from the .jp wiki for (plus multiple suspected IPs) for this. | |||
====Statement by RegentsPark==== | |||
I concur largely with Qwyrxian's analysis above so I'm not going to repeat all the diffs here but do wish to make a couple of points. Neo needs to be aware that the way Misplaced Pages works we collaborate on content. What that means is that sometimes editors may agree with each other while at other times they may disagree. However, in each instance of agreement or disagreement, the way forward is always through specific content suggestions and specific sources to back up those suggestions. Wholesale reverts with broad accusations of POV violations and/or tag teaming are not only not helpful but are also disruptive (cf. , ). Neo needs to realize that pointy RfCs, assumptions of bad faith, and large scale reverts are not the way toward becoming a useful editor on Misplaced Pages. --] <small>(])</small> 15:23, 17 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
:@YK. Neo. reverts wholesale without discussion stuff he doesn't like (see my My two diffs above and also in Qw's statement); sees tag teaming and gangs working against him (see the edit summaries in his . All signs of an editor who would rather see his or her version and nothing else. --] <small>(])</small> 13:42, 22 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
Prior to being sanctioned Symphony Regalia frequently got into exactly the same arguments concerning wording/source material with ] that Ethiopian Epic is now. One could assume based on their relationship that he is aggrieved that Tinynanorobots was not sanctioned by ArbCom during the case and is now continuously feuding with him to change that through edit warring and multiple administrator incidents/arbitration requests in the past few weeks. ] (]) 22:31, 12 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Yogesh Khandke==== | |||
'''(1)''' I agree with ] that a content dispute has been brought to this venue, as evident from the arguments put forward by the nominator and the counter-arguments presented by Neo. | |||
'''(2)''' The revision history statistics of 2002 Gujarat violence indicate that there have been 3857 edits made by 1073 users, made over a period of almost 10 years. What kind of evidence does the nominator have in support of his claim that DS has completely transformed the article from one that had multiple issues to one that is compliant? '''(3)''' In a subject so subjective and controversial, the article would reflect the views of the consensus. Do DS's 128 edits made in 45 days, the third highest to the article, reflect respect to ], where is the evidence that Neo's edits overturn that consensus? | |||
'''(4)''' So the nominator's claim that "There are certainly actionable diffs after the July 9 date; most notably the tendentiousness displayed in proposing and making editors waste time in arguing about a blatantly POV recommended change to the article." does not apply in Neo's case. Neo is prepared to discuss and act according to the rules as declared in his edit on "11:08, 11 July 2013 (UTC)" in which he informs that he would refer the matter to DRN or RFC/U. '''(5)''' Neo is trying to discuss, he has less than 12 edits to 2002 Gujarat violence, DS has 128. RegentsParks needs to provide evidence why he considers Neo unwilling to collaborate. '''(6)''' I suggest to Neo that he ought not to use words/phrases like "nonsense" or "block me", he may consider looking at the path ] had to take, he has to trust the system, there isn't anything personal against him. '''(7)''' I suggest that Neo shouldn't comment on the motivation of other editors in making edits, and not make personal comments about them. '''(8)''' There have been allegations by the nominator that edits made by Neo are actionable, evidence for the same simply indicates a content dispute, Neo has expressed willingness to set right any behavioural issues the community may find in his edits, he has demonstrated sound understanding of the principles of good editing by his statement that he would stay away from "sanction areas" pending his appeal. Administrative action on Misplaced Pages is "coercive and not punitive", I therefore do not see any reason to ban or block Neo, if any advice is necessary to be given to Neo, it may be given, Neo has demonstrated that he would take it to heart. ] (]) 03:29, 18 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
*I agree with ]'s observations generally. However my linking to ] ''implies'' that the consensus is amongst compliant editors and not vandals or the like. Also if there is allusion to a systemic bias on his part, he has to present evidence to prove his claim. ] (]) 07:44, 20 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
*DS: What is the particular misrepresentation? Would you pl be specific? ] (]) 02:21, 21 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
*DS: There are 11 sources, you need to specify the one or two specific bad cases. Also these are content disputes? Is this the right venue? Don't we do this at DRN? ] (]) 10:26, 22 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
*DS: The Hindu story dt. 2005-01-23 mentions various controversies, those controversies have not been mentioned in the section, matters such as molesting a Muslim girl on the platform, accident and not sabotage. Perhaps we can have that in the section based on the Hindu story. However those speculations seem to have been overruled by the subsequent 31 convictions, 11 death sentences and 20 life terms, 63 acquittals. However this IBN source doesn't tell us that all were Muslims, we just have 4 Muslim (sounding) names. So the IBN source cannot be used for the "all Muslims" remarks. Was this IBN source related lacunae discussed on the talk page, did Neo justify this mis-representation? Please supply diff of discussion. I've checked four sources, two are used fine, there is no misrepresentation in the third, the fourth (IBN the one you didn't share) doesn't inform all were Muslims. Please supply diffs as above. ] (]) 10:20, 23 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by |
====Statement by Nil Einne==== | ||
@Yogesh, you say that {{xt|In a subject so subjective and controversial, the article would reflect the views of the consensus}}, referring to the number of people who have edited. Not so: there is a world of difference between people who contribute to articles and people who do so in a policy-compliant manner. I suspect that there are far more Indian contributors to Misplaced Pages than there are Pakistani contributors but, regardless of that, ] favours those who comply with policy and it is the formal definition of "consensus" here. If your argument or contribution does not comply with policy then it should have no bearing on the outcome.<p>Articles such as the one referred to in this instance are prone to often-extreme Hindu-Islam, India-Pakistan POV-pushing and friction. That POV issue is in large part why the sanctions whose enforcement is being requested here were introduced. I have no opinion on the request itself, having deliberately tried to keep a low profile and having no desire to get sucked into yet another aspect of the increasingly disruptive "Indo-Pak", Hindu-Muslim palaver that has been getting a higher and higher profile in all the wrong places over the last few months. From my own experience of Neo. elsewhere, it does not surprise me that the behaviour has ended up here, but beyond that I really do not want to get involved. - ] (]) 23:46, 18 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
I was ?one of the editors who suggested Tinynanorobots consider ARE in the future. I did this mostly because after three threads on ANI with no result, I felt a change of venue might be more productive especially since the more structured nature of ARE, as well as a likely greater concern over low level of misconduct meant that some outcome was more likely. (For clarity, when I suggested this I did feel nothing would happen from the third ANI thread but in any case my advice being taken onboard would likely mean the third thread had no result.) I did try to make clear that I wasn't saying there was definitely a problem requiring sanction and also it was possible Tinynanorobots might themselves end up sanctioned. Since a topic ban on both is being considered, I might have been right in a way. If a topic ban results, I'd like to suggest admins considered some guidance beyond broadly constructed on how any topic ban would apply. While the entirety of the Yasuke article and the list of foreign born samurai stuff seem clear enough, one concern I've had at ANI is how to handle the editing at ] and its talk page. A lot of the recent stuff involving these editors seems to relate to the definition of samurai. AFAIK, this is generally been a big part of the dispute of Yasuke (he can/can't be a samurai because it means A which was/wasn't true about him). ] (]) 12:42, 15 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Darkness Shines==== | |||
I have asked this question of Neo. and another editor on the talk page of the article this pertains to, as Yogesh Khandke is so sure of Neo. being neutral, tall me YK, is this within our NPOV policies? Are the sources used in that section, used correctly? ] (]) 01:14, 21 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
===Result concerning Ethiopian Epic=== | |||
{{reply to|Yogesh Khandke}} It is a simple question YK, is that section neutral? And is it an accurate reflection of the sources used in it? ] (]) 09:57, 22 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
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*I've never been very impressed with retaliatory filings, and the one below is no exception. I will also note that I'm never too impressed with "must be a sock" type accusations—either file at SPI or don't. In this case, though, I think ] would be better off if neither of these two were participating there. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 19:33, 12 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:{{u|Red-tailed hawk}}, what are your thoughts after the responses to you? ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 16:18, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*::I think that it would be declined if it were an ] report and the editor should be mindful not to throw sock accusations around willy-nilly going forward. But I typically don't see any sort of sanction imposed when someone makes a bad SPI report, particularly if they're newer or aren't quite ] yet. So I don't see much to do on that front other than tell them that we need more specific evidence of socking when reports are made than merely shared interest, particularly when the IPs are scattered across the world. — ] <sub>]</sub> 02:24, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:::I'm still inclined to topic ban both these editors from ], but would be interested in hearing more thoughts on that if anyone has them. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 07:10, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I also generally don't like "might-be-a-sock"-style accusations; when we are accusing someone of ] we typically need evidence to substantiate it rather than just floating the possibility in a flimsy way. Filer has provided as possible socks, but each of those IPs geolocates to a different country (Germany, Norway, and Argentina respectively) and I don't see evidence that any of those IPs are proxies.{{pb}}{{yo|Tinynanorobots}} Can you explain what led you to note the IP edits? Is it merely shared interest and viewpoint, or is there something more?{{pb}}— ] <sub>]</sub> 02:01, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
* Looking at this .... mess... first, I'm not sure what actually was against the ArbCom decision - I don't see a 1RR violation being alleged, and the rest really appears to me to be "throw stuff at the wall and see if it sticks". But, like Seraphimblade, I'm not impressed with either of these editors actual conduct here or in general. I could be brought around to supporting a topic ban for both of these editors in the interests of clearing up the whole topic area. ] (]) 14:33, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
* {{re|Tinynanorobots}} you are well above the 500 word limit. Please request an extension before adding anything more. ] (]) 16:18, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
==Tinynanorobots== | |||
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> | |||
===Request concerning Tinynanorobots=== | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : ] (]) 19:14, 12 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Tinynanorobots}}<p>{{ds/log|Tinynanorobots}}</p> | |||
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] | |||
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | |||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | |||
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.--> | |||
#. Tinynanorobots removes {{tq|As a samurai}} from the lead text and replaces it with {{tq|signifying bushi status}} against ] ({{tq|There exists a consensus to refer to Yasuke as a samurai without qualification}}). | |||
#. Tinynanorobots removes {{tq|who served as a samurai}} from the lead text and adds {{tq|who became a bushi or samurai}} against ] ({{tq|There exists a consensus against presenting Yasuke's samurai status as the object of debate}}). | |||
#. On List of Foreign-born Samurai, Tinynanorobots removes the longstanding definition and adds {{tq|This list includes persons who ... may not have been considered a samurai}} against ] ({{tq|There exists a consensus against presenting Yasuke's samurai status as the object of debate}}). | |||
#. Tinynanorobots reverts to remove {{tq|As a samurai}} in the Yasuke article after Gitz6666 opposes at , again ignoring ]. | |||
#. I restore and start a so that consensus can be formed. | |||
#. Tinynanorobots, when consensus fails to form for his position, becomes uncivil and engages in a sarcastic personal attack {{tq|What you are saying doesn't make sense. Perhaps there is a language issue here. Maybe your native language handles the future differently than English?}} | |||
#. Tinynanorobots removes "As a samurai" again, ignoring ] and BRD even though no consensus has formed for his position, and no consensus has formed to change existing consensus. | |||
#. Tinynanorobots explains their reasons, {{tq|I don't know if samurai is the right term}} which is against consensus. | |||
#. POV-pushing - With no edit summary Tinynanorobots tag bombs by adding {{tq|Slavery in Japan}}. | |||
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : | |||
# Explanation | |||
# Explanation | |||
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.--> | |||
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]): | |||
<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. --> | |||
*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on . | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | |||
Tinynanorobots frequently edits against consensus, restores his edits when others revert, doesn't wait for consensus, and engages in feuding behavior. He seems to think ] or ] don't apply to him which is disruptive, and I don't know why. | |||
- Warning from other editor about repeated removal of content when multiple users are objecting. | |||
- Warning from yet another editor about not assuming good faith and making personal attacks | |||
It seems to be chronic which suggests behavior problems. Tinynanorobots also frequently fails to assume good faith in others. I don't know why as I don't have any issues with him. | |||
Their preferred edit for Yasuke against the RFC consensus is lead section. | |||
@] Sorry for the confusion. I think we talking about different edits, so I'll adjust that part. I am referring to Tinynanorobot's repeated removal of {{tq|As a samurai}} against RFC consensus, which states {{tq|There exists a consensus to refer to Yasuke as a samurai without qualification}}. | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
===Discussion concerning Tinynanorobots=== | |||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | |||
====Statement by Tinynanorobots==== | |||
The accusations made by EE are so misleading as to be evidence against him. Most of what he is discussing is in reference to a successful BRD. I actually discussed the bold edit first on the talk, but didn't get much of a response. I decided a bold edit would get more feedback. The edits were reverted and then discussed. Gitz's main problem was OR, not a RfC violation. This was because he didn't read the cited source. {{tq|Anyway, since Atkin says "signifying bushi status", I have no objection to restoring this text.}} | |||
I never used any sarcasm, I know that some languages handle how they talk about time differently. It seems reasonable that a translation error could be the reason for EE asking me not to change the article, althoug my edit had already been restored by someone else and at the same time asking me to discuss that I had already discussed and was already discussing. I am disappointed that EE didn't point out that he felt attacked, so that I could apologize. | |||
This was written in response to another user, and the whole thought is {{tq|I don't know if samurai is the right term. It is the term a fair amount of sources use, and the one that the RfC says should be used. It is also consistent with common usage in reference to other historical figures.}} In fact earlier in that post I said this: {{tq|I am not qualified to say whither or not Yasuke having a house meant that he was a samurai}} This is blatantly taking a quote out of context in order to prejudice the Admins against me. | |||
:@] I filed here, because the last time I filed at ANI it was suggested that I bring things here if things continue by an Admin. I try to follow advice, although I keep getting conflicting signals from Admins. I am most concerned that you find my work on ] and ] not adding anything helpful. My suggestion to rewrite the way samurai was defined on the List in order to reduce OR and bring it in line with WP:LSC was meant with unanimous approval by those who responded. Samurai is a high importance article that has tags on it from years back, is unorganized and contains outdated information. I am not the best writer, but I have gotten some books, and am pretty much the only one working on it. | |||
::I just thought that the Admins here should know about the ongoing SPI | |||
====Statement by Relm==== | |||
I am the editor alluded to and quoted as 'protesting' Tinynanorobots edit. When I originally made that topic, I was fixing a different edit which left the first sentence as a grammatically incomplete sentence. When I looked at it in the editing view, one of the quotes in the citation beforehand was quoting Atkins Vera, and I mistook this for the opening quote having been changed. When I closed the editing menu I saw 'signifying samurai status' in the second paragraph and confused the two for each other as I had not noticed the addition of the latter phrase a little under a month ago. I realized my mistake almost immediately after I posted the new topic, and made this () edit to clarify my mistake while also attempting to instead direct the topic towards making sure that the edit recieved sufficient assent from Gitz (it did) and to talk about improvements that could be made to the opening sentence. I further clarified and made clear that I was not accusing Tinynanorobots of having done anything wrong in a later response (). | |||
Though many of their earlier edits on the page may show some issues, as they grew more familiar with the past discussions I believe that Tinynanorobots has made valuable contributions to the page in good faith. ] (]) 03:21, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Barkeep49==== | |||
*:@] I think this misinterprets the ArbCom decision. So Yakuse is a contentious topic ''and'' it has a 1RR restriction, in the same way as say PIA. As in PIA administrators can sanction behavior that violates the ] besides 1RR. Beyond that, editing ] is a finding of fact from the case. ] (]) 16:25, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
{{reply to|Yogesh Khandke}} You have said in your first statement "What kind of evidence does the nominator have in support of his claim that DS has completely transformed the article from one that had multiple issues to one that is compliant?" Other than the BLPPRIMARY issues and PRIMARY issues I had fixed that section is an example of what the article looked like before I rewrote the most of it. You say "Neo is trying to discuss" But he was not, his post about my changes were an accusation of POV pushing and a demand I self revert, even though he claimed above in his initial statement that he was "AGF" of myself. His second post on my changes were to call the sources and that these academics are " conspiracy theorists tends to screw straight forward cases and publish books to earn money", even though he says above he has no access to them, and not once did he ask for quotes or clarification on the sources. Does that sound like as you say, "Neo is trying to discuss"? So onto the section, and the question nobody seems willing to respond to. Is that section written in a neutral manner? A simple yes or no will suffice for that one. And as you seem unwilling to look at the sources here are a few from that section, are these sources used correctly and in line with out NPOV policy. This is the first source used in the section The second The third ] (]) 10:46, 22 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by (username)==== | ====Statement by (username)==== | ||
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===Result concerning |
===Result concerning Tinynanorobots=== | ||
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:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
Neo., to clarify, this is not a hearing by the Arbitration Committee, but a request to administrators like me to take action under the Committee's delegated authority, see ]. <p>I don't readily see anything actionable in this submission, or to convince me that this is not mainly a content dispute. The warning allowing us to impose discretionary sanctions was issued on 15 July. Anything earlier is not actionable in the context of this forum in my view. And there is no later dated diff in the evidence submission. Additionally, writing poor-quality content (not that I say that this has necessarily happened here) or making mistaken arguments in discussions is not a violation of Misplaced Pages's conduct policies, and therefore not in and of itself sanctionable. <p>But writing non-neutral and unverifiable content is, as is engaging in personal attacks. Neo. should take care in the future to adhere to all important policies as outlined at ], and not make sweeping accusations of misconduct without adequate evidence. The countercomplaint by Neo. is too confused and insufficiently supported by evidence (in the form of explained diffs!) to be actionable at first glance. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 21:40, 16 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
:Qwyrxian, the July 9 warning is not sufficient, because ] requires that the warning include "a link to the decision authorizing sanctions", which that warning did not. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 23:07, 16 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
:: Sorry, Sandstein, but this objection is really an extreme form of rules-lawyering formalism. The warning contained a link to ], which in itself documents an arbcom decision "authorizing sanctions", describing the nature of discretionary sanctions and listing, with links, all the individual arb cases. That is at least as authoritative and as informative (if not more) than a direct link to the original case page, and is more than enough to fulfill both the letter and – more importantly – the spirit of the formal rule. I haven't yet looked at all the evidence presented above, but I'm certainly not going to look at it with an artifical cutoff date of 15 July in mind, unless there is positive evidence that he has significantly improved his conduct after that date (as opposed to just accidentally not producing new egregious cases of misconduct). ] ] 12:09, 17 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
:::Well, you may do as you wish, but I prefer to err on the side of caution when determining whether enforcement authority exists. The problem is that ] is not a decision authorizing sanctions; the individual case decisions do that. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 18:17, 17 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
* As above, I'm failing to see what exactly is against the ArbCom case rulings - I don't see a 1RR violation. But also as above, I'm coming to the view that neither of these editors are adding anything helpful to the topic area and am leaning towards a topic ban for both. ] (]) 14:35, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*As far as I'm concerned that July 9th warning IS sufficient, so I agree with Future Perfect. Such a warning has been good enough historically. If there had been a talk page template that would have been enough (for me now and again has been historically). Given that the message on the talk page was directly to Neo, I see it serving the same purpose as a formalized warning. <br>On a first look at the evidence there is either a ] or ] issue here with Neo. There have been enough administrative warnings here from multiple uninvolved sysops. And Neo has been casting aspersions wildly. Some sort of restriction is in order here, at least to point Neo in the right direction or to let him learn elsewhere (in other topics) how to behave on WP. I'd be considering a 1 month page ban. But I'm open to suggestion either to be more or less harsh--] <sup>]</sup> 22:02, 17 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
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==Selfstudier== | |||
== Arbitration enforcement action appeal by AgadaUrbanit == | |||
{{hat|1={{nobold|1=No evidence of misconduct was presented. Filer ] is informally warned against frivolous filings. <span style="font-family:courier"> -- ]</span><sup class="nowrap">[]]</sup> <small>(])</small> 02:36, 19 December 2024 (UTC)}}}}} | |||
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> | |||
===Request concerning Selfstudier=== | |||
{{hat|1=The ban from contributing to ] is lifted by agreement of the sanctioning administrator. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 08:45, 21 July 2013 (UTC)}} | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Allthemilescombined1}} 02:43, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
<small>''Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found ]. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. <p>To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see ]).''</small> | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Selfstudier}}<p>{{ds/log|Selfstudier}}</p> | |||
; Appealing user : {{userlinks|AgadaUrbanit}} | |||
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
; Sanction being appealed: | |||
https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages%3AArbitration%2FRequests%2FEnforcement&diff=502419675&oldid=502419285 | |||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: | |||
; Administrator imposing the sanction : ]. | |||
] | |||
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | |||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | |||
; Notification of that administrator : | |||
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.--> | |||
# Concern for ] violation when Selfstudier told me on my talk page: “enough now.This is a warning to cease and desist with the WP:ASPERSIONS and general unhelpfulness at the Zionism article.” | |||
# Selfstudier dismissed my source {{ISBN|9798888459683}}, with “Bernard-Henri Lévy is not an expert on Zionism or colonialism”. | |||
# Selfstudier dismissed my source Adam Kirsch {{ISBN|978-1324105343}} “does not appear to be an expert in Zionism or Settler colonial studies but is apparently well known for a pro Israel viewpoint". These dismissive comments are uncivil. | |||
# Concerning for possible ] and ] violations. Editors with one POV swarmed RM:6 December 2024 and closed it immediately for SNOW. Selfstudier immediately archived parts of this discussion, including my comments, while leaving the parts that supported their POV. | |||
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : | |||
https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Timotheus_Canens&diff=prev&oldid=564830321 | |||
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.--> | |||
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]): | |||
===Statement by AgadaUrbanit=== | |||
<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. --> | |||
*Otherwise made edits indicating an awareness of the contentious topic. | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | |||
It has been a year since my AE ban. I did my best to contribute to Misplaced Pages and respect ban restriction. Considering the length of the ban and I am requesting a lifting of my ban. Thank you. | |||
On I/P topics, my edits on numerous occasions have been reverted almost immediately, by Selfstudier and their fellow editors who seem to be always hanging around I/P, and "owning" the topic area. They are creating a hostile editing environment and are violating NPOV. | |||
:@Sandstein | |||
::(a) I've been sanctioned as a result of submitting an AE request. There was a discussion among uninvolved administrators who decided in good faith that the request I've submitted was frivolous. Bottom line I was wrong. | |||
::(b) I did not miss my editing privileges for this noticeboard.during last year. My contributions demonstrate, I think, the restriction did not stop me from improving this project. Honestly, it is much more interesting to edit other parts of Misplaced Pages. From other hand frankly I would like not to feel as an ''unprivileged'' editor. If I take part in this project, I'd like to be ''equal''. | |||
:Thank you, ] (]) 21:44, 18 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
Concerns for possible ] and ] violations: | |||
===Statement by T. Canens=== | |||
I'm fine with lifting this restriction. ] (]) 03:20, 21 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
*Abo Yemen dismissed my reasoned arguments as “feelings”: | |||
===Statement by (involved editor 1)=== | |||
*RolandR dismissed the author of "Saying No to Hate: Overcoming Antisemitism in America", {{ISBN|978-0827615236}}, as a “non-notable children’s writer”: | |||
===Statement by (involved editor 2)=== | |||
*Zero told me “We should stick to history books and not cite emotional polemics”. | |||
===Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by AgadaUrbanit=== | |||
You are appealing a ban from participating in this noticeboard. Can you (a) explain why you incurred that ban in the first place, and (b) name a situation after your ban where it would have been to the benefit of Misplaced Pages if you had been allowed to edit this noticeboard? <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 19:46, 18 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
*Based on the frankness the OP demonstrates in response to the above, unless there is a good reason to the contrary, the OP ought to be un-banned. It would perhaps help if number of edits made after the ban are mentioned. ] (]) 23:37, 20 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
Concerns for possible ] and ] violations: | |||
===Result of the appeal by AgadaUrbanit=== | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
<!-- Please notify the appellant in the event of a successful appeal, in addition to logging it on the case page. ] informs users that "If you appeal this sanction, you remain bound by it until you are notified by an uninvolved administrator that the appeal has been successful."--> | |||
<!-- Use {{discussion top}} / {{discussion bottom}} to mark this request as closed.--> | |||
*Smallangryplanet accused me of WP:SYNTH and reverted my edits as irrelevant to the article on Holocaust inversion: whereas the article, prior to vandalism, resembled: | |||
Considering that the sanctioning admin has said above that he agrees to lift the restriction, I'm recording it as lifted and am closing the thread. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 08:43, 21 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
{{hab}} | |||
*Nableezy added that the only material that can be relevant to the aforementioned article is that which compares Israel to Nazi Germany, ignoring that such comparisons are antisemitic. | |||
== Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Jiujitsuguy == | |||
*Levivich asked me “Why are these academic sources relevant to the discussion? How did you select them?” and added “I won’t bother reading the other two, I'll assume they also say the same thing that everybody else says.” (referring to Katz, Segev, and Goren) | |||
{{hat|1=Closed as ''declined''--] <sup>]</sup> 19:44, 21 July 2013 (UTC)}} | |||
<small>''Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found ]. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. <p>To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see ]).''</small> | |||
*Valeree wrote “If you'll read this talk page rather thoroughly so that you can bring yourself up to speed, you'll probably find fewer editors making sarcastic remarks about your suggestions.” | |||
; Appealing user : {{userlinks|Jiujitsuguy}} | |||
Concerns for possible ] violations: | |||
; Sanction being appealed: | |||
*Sean.hoyland accused me of “advocacy and the expression of your personal views about the real world” and told me to see MOS:TERRORIST and accused me of violating WP:NOTFORUM and WP:NOTADVOCACY: | |||
https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=503267313&oldid=503208820 | |||
*Sameboat wrote: "Please take extra attention to this recent ECU whose edits to I-P articles look rather deceptive to me". | |||
; Administrator imposing the sanction : ]. | |||
Concerns for possible ] violations: | |||
; Notification of that administrator : | |||
*Sameboat wrote on my talk page about Gaza genocide, though they were not involved in the earlier discussion, warning me about WP:NOTFORUM RM:6 December 2024. | |||
Selected examples of my edits which were reverted within hours or minutes (this list is far from comprehensive): | |||
* by Butterscotch Beluga claiming vandalism against a University of Michigan regent was irrelevant to pro-Palestine protests because it happened off campus; | |||
* by Zero arguing that an egregious antisemitic incident 'fails WP:WEIGHT by a mile' | |||
* by Abo Yemen removing my additions to Palestinian perspectives comparing Israel to Nazi Germany from a section on exactly that; along with and by Smallangryplanet; | |||
* by AlsoWukai removing the disappearance of the ]'s $31 million debt when South Africa accused Israel of genocide. | |||
In summary, I have experienced a pattern of consistent, and what appears to be organized, intimidation from a small group of editors. | |||
===Statement by Jiujitsuguy=== | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
It has been a year since my topic ban. I have scrupulously adhered to the ban’s provisions steering clear of anything remotely related to the topic area. I’ve edited constructively outside of the topic area. In light of the Ban’s length, the fact that I’ve respected it’s provisions and the fact that I’ve edited constructively outside of the topic area, I am requesting a lifting of the ban. Thank you. | |||
=== |
===Discussion concerning Selfstudier=== | ||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | |||
I'm personally not inclined to lift this ban, particular in light of the paucity of edits after the ban; in short, there is no way for me to assess whether the problematic conduct would recur if the ban were lifted. ] (]) 03:22, 21 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
===Statement by |
====Statement by Selfstudier==== | ||
This editor has made less than 100 edits since the topic ban. I do not believe this should be seen as a good indicator. Should Jiujitsuguy show unequivocal understanding of exactly why he was given such a lengthy topic ban then maybe it should be considered. Normally, I don't think an admission of guilt is important, but the problem here is that his indefinite topic ban was for repeated acts of blatant deceit in his content work and in his conduct on this noticeboard. Admins should be very circumspect about giving this appeal favorable consideration.--] <sub>] ]</sub> 23:05, 18 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
===Statement by |
====Statement by Sean.hoyland==== | ||
I see I've been mentioned but not pinged. That's nice. I encourage anyone to look at the diffs and . Why are there editors in the topic area apparently ignoring ] and ]? It's a mystery. It is, and has always been, one of the root causes of instability in the topic area and wastes so much time. Assigning a cost to advocacy might reduce it. Either way, it needs to be actively suppressed by enforcement of the ] policy. It's a rule, not an aspiration. ] (]) 15:23, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
I think this request should be declined. Considering Jiujitsuguys long term problematic history and repeated problematic behavior, Jiujitsuguy is a user who has never been beneficial to the A-I topic area, quite the opposite. And it would be beneficial for A-I Misplaced Pages articles in regards to npov and factual accuracy that user Jiujitsuguy is not permitted to edit them. --] (]) 23:21, 18 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
===Statement by |
====Statement by Butterscotch Beluga==== | ||
I didn't say it was ''"irrelevant to pro-Palestine protests"'' as a whole. The edit I reverted was specifically at ], so as I said, the ''"Incident did not occur at a university campus so is outside the scope of this article"''. We have other articles like ] & more specifically ] that are more in scope of your proposed edit. - ] (]) 20:52, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
Reading the case that lead to his ban I understand that JJG was topic-banned because he falsified sources and accused another to do so : . I don't think an editor with such a behaviour is welcomeon the project. ] (]) 07:25, 20 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
===Statement by |
====Statement by Huldra==== | ||
I wish the filer would have wiki-linked names, then you would easily have seen that ] "is not an expert on Zionism or colonialism”, or that ] “does not appear to be an expert in Zionism or Settler colonial studies but is apparently well known for a pro Israel viewpoint", ] (]) 22:11, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by RolandR==== | |||
===Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Jiujitsuguy=== | |||
I too have been mentioned above, and complained about, but not been notified. If this is not a breach of Misplaced Pages regulations, then it ought to be. | |||
As for the substance, I see that I am accused of describing ] as a "non-notable children’s writer". Norman H. Finkelstein was indeed a children's writer, as described in most reports and obituaries. At the time of the original edit and my revert, he was not considered sufficiently notable to merit a Misplaced Pages article; it was only a week later that the OP created an article, of which they have effectively been the only editor. So I stand by my characterisation, which is an accurate and objective description of the author. | |||
===Result of the appeal by Jiujitsuguy=== | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
Further, I was concerned that a casual reader might be led to confuse this writer with the highly significant writer ]; in fact, I made my edit after ] had made this mistake and linked the cited author to the genuinely notable person. | |||
<!-- Please notify the appellant in the event of a successful appeal, in addition to logging it on the case page. ] informs users that "If you appeal this sanction, you remain bound by it until you are notified by an uninvolved administrator that the appeal has been successful."--> | |||
<!-- Use {{discussion top}} / {{discussion bottom}} to mark this request as closed.--> | |||
*The appeal is denied for lack of evidence of reformation. I would be minded to consider a further appeal in no less than two months' time, supported by substantial evidence of productive and collegiate editing in another area of the encyclopedia as a demonstration of intent and willingness to edit in good faith. ] (]) 13:25, 20 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
This whole report, and the sneaky complaints about me and other editors, is entirely worthless and should be thrown out. | |||
*Indef bans can't be "waited out". Productive collegial editing in other topics showing not only good behaviour but an interest in other topics is the only way to lift such bans. Follow Stifle's advice. Recommend declining this appeal--] <sup>]</sup> 18:43, 20 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
<span style="font-family: Papyrus">] (])</span> 22:29, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Zero0000==== | |||
by OP is illustrative. It is just a presentation of personal belief with weak or irrelevant sources. I don't see evidence of an ability to contribute usefully. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 00:31, 14 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Sameboat==== | |||
*Indefinite bans should be lifted only if we have reason to believe that it is at least likely that the conduct that triggered the ban will not reoccur. Like T. Canens and the colleagues above, I don't think that we have this certainty at this time, considering the few edits made during the time of the ban and because the appeal does not address the reason for the ban, which means that we don't know whether the appellant understands what they did wrong. I would also decline the appeal at this time. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 09:01, 21 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
It is clear that the filer has failed to understand my message, which was a warning about repeated violations of the NotForum policy. Instead, they have misinterpreted my actions, as well as those of others, as part of a coordinated "tag team." I raised my concerns on ] after the filer's edit on the ] article regarding its controversy, which failed to properly attribute the information to its source—the Israeli government. This filing is a complete waste of time, and serious sanctions should be imposed on the filer if similar issues occur again in the future. -- ] (] · ]) 02:17, 14 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by AlsoWukai==== | |||
:*Closed as declined--] <sup>]</sup> 19:44, 21 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
Contrary to the filer's complaint, I never made an edit "removing the disappearance of the ANC's $31 million debt when South Africa accused Israel of genocide." I can only conclude that the filer misread the edit history. ] (]) 20:55, 14 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Valereeee==== | |||
The diff allthemiles links to above is me responding to their post (in which they complained about a mildly sarcastic remark by another editor) where they said, "If respectful discussion is not possible, administrative involvement will be needed." I've been trying to keep up at that article talk, so I responded giving them my take on it. | |||
I tried to keep engaging, trying to help them understand the challenges for less experienced editors trying to work in the topic, offering advice on how they could get up to speed at that particular article, even offering to continue the discussion at their talk or mine. ] (]) 14:29, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:@], editors working in PIA are brought here often and bring other editors here often for various reasons, and it doesn't always mean a given editor is problematic. For instance, the particular appearance you're referring to was brought here by a suspected sock of an LTA. I've seen admins working here who don't work in PIA wonder if the fact someone is brought here often or brings others here often means that editor is a problem, and I get why it feels like some issue ''with that editor'' has to be a factor, but in my experience it isn't usually. Some of the best editors working in that area are brought here for spurious reasons, and also need to bring other editors here for valid reasons. And some of the worst offenders there avoid AE. ] (]) 11:45, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
===Result concerning Selfstudier=== | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
* While I'm on record as saying that the topic area could us more civility from editors, I'm failing to see anything actionable against the editor filed against here. There's an edit from Oct that isn't great but not even begining to get into my "not civil" category. Then there's a perfectly civil statement about a source from 3 Nov (Hint - "Bernard-Henri Lévy is not an expert on Zionism or colonialism" is exactly the type of discussion that SHOULD be taking place in a contentious topic - it's focused on the source and does not mention any editors at all. The full comment "There is nothing to suggest Bernard-Henri Lévy is an expert on Zionism or colonialism. As I said, it is rather simple to find a source saying what you want it to say, whether that's a WP:BESTSOURCE is another matter." is still quite civil and focused on the source - nothing in this is worth of sanctioning....) The other statement from 3 Nov is also focused on the merits of the source. The fact that it isn't agreeing with your source analysis does not make it dismissive nor uncivil. Frankly, it's quite civil and again, what is expected in a contentious topic - source-based discussion. The comment from 6 Dec is also not uncivil. | |||
* The rest of the filing is not about Selfstudier and is instead an excellent example of (1) throwing a whole bunch of diffs out hoping something will stick to someone and (2) an example of why filings in this area often turn into huge messess that can't reach resolution. This is supposed to be a filing about Selfstudier's behavior - instead most of it is about a grab-bag of other edits from many other editors, and frankly, seems to be motivated by the filer feeling that they aren't being taken seriously enough or something. I'm not going to read any of these diffs because they are not about the editor you filed against and my time is worth something and we should not reward abuse of this process by this sort of grab-bag-against-everyone-that-disagreed-with-an-editor filing. | |||
* The only reason I'm not going for a boomerang against the filer is that they have only been editing for about six months and this is the first AE filing they've done. Let me suggest that they do not file another one like this - it's a waste of admin time. ] (]) 14:48, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I second Ealdgyth's reading. The presented diffs against Selfstudier are not actionable, and a lot of the complaint is not about Selfstudier at all. I don't believe the filing alone is grounds for sanction on the filer, but if someone wishes to present more evidence against them I suggest they do so in a separate report. ] (]) 21:27, 14 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I stumbled into this by accident and I don't do these requests anymore, but I wonder if filer should edit outside the subject area until they have much more experience in ] and dispute resolution.YMMV. Best] (]) 08:03, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*Another case on this editor was just closed a week ago, is there any relation between this filing and issues brought up in ]? It seems like some editors are brought to AE on a weekly basis. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 08:33, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
{{hab}} | {{hab}} | ||
== |
==Rasteem== | ||
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> | |||
===Request concerning Rasteem=== | |||
{{hat|1=Non-actionable content dispute. Maunus and BlackHades are reminded not to make allegations of misconduct against others without evidence, and to respect ] in talk page discussions, respectively. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 20:29, 22 July 2013 (UTC)}} | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|NXcrypto}} 03:06, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br>Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Rasteem}}<p>{{ds/log|Rasteem}}</p> | |||
===Request concerning BlackHades=== | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : ] 23:25, 18 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|BlackHades}} | |||
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | <!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | ||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] | ;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] | ||
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | <!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | ||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | ; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | ||
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. --> | <!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.--> | ||
# - removed wikilink of an Indian railway station thus violating his topic ban from India and Pakistan. | |||
# Argues that a textbook on "HUman biological variation" should be discounted because it is written by three distinguished biological anthropologists, the obvious field of expertise on human biological variation - who also happen to be skeptical about the biological bases of race. Also argues that the source should be discounted because it does not review certain sources that make conclusions favorable to the hereditarian point. WP:CHERRYPICKING obviously does not apply to reliable secondary or tertiary sources - but in fact should be taken as indicative of a lack of standing of the excluded studies within the field. We establish which studies should be included within the mainstream of a field by how they are treated or ignored by high quality sources. Attempts to refute a reliable source with primary sources. ] 23:25, 18 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
# Repeatedly argues that a statement that Nisbett's claim (that evidence favors an entirely environmental explanation) is extreme can be interpreted to mean that Nisbett himself, a highly esteemed psychologist of eminent standing in the field, is fringe. A clear breach of the injunction against misrepresenting the status between mainstream and minority viewpoints. He is also using Hunt's claim about Nisbetts 2009 claim that the evidence favors an environmental explanation, to try to discard the validity of this source " Intelligence: New findings and theoretical developments. Nisbett, Richard E.; Aronson, Joshua; Blair, Clancy; Dickens, William; Flynn, James; Halpern, Diane F.; Turkheimer, Eric. American Psychologist, Vol 67(2), Feb-Mar 2012, 130-159" which is a review article coauthored by Nisbett and an all-star team of IQ researchers and published in the flagship journal of the field of psychology - basically the most reliable source thinkable for a dispute such as this. | |||
# Citing outdated sources in support of claims about the current status in the field. The Minnesota Transracial Adoption study was concluded in 1972 and has been specifically criticized for failing to take into account environmentalist effects, and is considered inconclusive. The Rothman and Snyderman Survey claimed to show that there is wide syupport in Psychology today for the hereditarian explanation was published in 1987 7 years before the Bell Curve was even published and 25 years before the source that he is attempting to use it to refute. | |||
# Editwarring on ] after having been previously blocked for editwarring within the same topic. | |||
# Here BlackHades is using a survey that observes that anthropologists in certain countries tend to accept race with a higher frequency than American anthropologists to argue that the concept of race has scientific validity in spite of the fact that the study itself concludes that the reason anthropologists in some countries, particularly Eastern Europe and China, continue to be more accepting of the concept is because they are not familiar with the literature and there is little tradition for that type of research in those countries - i.e. he uses the studies' results to undermine its own conclusions - a textbook case of WP:OR. | |||
# Here BlackHAdes is attempting to move a clear fringe argument into the mainstream by simpli arguing that it has been cited by two other hereditarian authors - whereas it is in fact entirely ignored in mainstream reviews of the field. | |||
This violation comes after he was already warned for his first violation of the topic ban. | |||
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) : | |||
<!-- Many arbitration remedies require a prior warning before sanctions may be imposed. Link to the warning here. --> | |||
Upon a closer look into his recent contribution, I found that he is simply ] the system by creating articles like ] which is overall only 5,400 bytes but he made nearly 50 edits here. This is clearly being done by Rasteem for passing the 500 edits mark to get his topic ban overturned. | |||
#Warned on by {{user|Dougweller}} | |||
#Warned on by {{user|EdJohnston}} | |||
I recommend increasing the topic ban to indefinite duration. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 03:06, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
#Blocked for edit warring as an Arbitration enforcement block by {{User|Future Perfect at Sunrise}} | |||
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : "topic banned from the subject of India and Pakistan, broadly construed, until both six months have elapsed and they have made 500 edits after being notified of this sanction." | |||
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]): | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | ; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | ||
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Several other editors have commented on the talkpage in support of my efforts to rewrite the article which now relies on many primary sources and with an idiosyncratic weighting that favors the minority view in accordance with mainstream secondary sources. When presented with clear and obvious mainstream sources such as general texbook introductions to the fields of psychology or human biological variation, or review articles from mainstream journals or handbooks, he works to undercut their authority through Original Research, by throwing their credentials into doubt, or by suggesting that they are fringe scientists in their fields o similarly - this can only be interpreted as deliberate attempts to misrepresent the mainstream in contravention of wikipedia policy and arbcom injunctions. User:BlackHades is for all intents an purposes an advocacy SPA all though he divides his wikipedia time between advocating at R&I and at GMO related articles. His editing practices are familiar to seasoned R&I editors because they rely on subtly misrepresenting sources and legthy repetitive argumentation on talkpages to hamper efforts to bring the article in line with policies and maintain a hereditarian bias. ] 23:25, 18 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
#I want to make absolutely clear that this is not a content dispute. I have no problem discussing content and sources, if done in a collegial and rational manner. In fact I think that I agree with BlackHAdes to a much wider degree than he believes. He has however continuously worked to polarize the debate by marking mainstream sources as extreme, by misrepresenting my claims (I have for example at no point claimed that Nisbett's 100% claim (which in fact he doesn't make) has wide support in the mainstream literature), and for example contrary to what BlackHades claims I had at my own initiative already stated that I would use Hunt's "Human Intelligence" as one of the main sources for the new rewrite along with a group of other mainstream secondary sources. BlackHades approach to editing has a polarizing effect and is the same kind of disruption that made progress on the article impossible in the past - essentially a kind of filibustering technique, where every even the least controversial edits to the article will be followed by nine pages of tit for tat on the talkpage. When BlackHades calls my 41 edits to the article "highly controversial" that simply means he didn't like them - because they have received wide support from several other editors on the talkpage.] 11:03, 19 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
*I agree that there are genuine CIR issues with Rasteem, for example while this ARE report is in progress they created ], which has promotional statements like: "The lake's stunning caluts, majestic desert topographies, and serene lakes produce a shifting destination. Its unique charm attracts a wide range of guests, from adventure contenders to nature suckers and beyond". ] <small><small>]</small></small> 03:26, 14 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
#@Sandstein: If you want to interpret "content dispute" that broadly then 90% of the cases handled by ArbCom are content disputes. R&I has from the outset been a dispute that involves both conduct and content - namely because some editors work to use influence content in favor of a particular view and quite consistently do so by contravening our policies. As I say my Problem with BlackHades is not about what goes into the article (and all of my recent edits have been backed by a talkpage consensus, so basically there is no question about what goes into the article at all), but with his way of arguing by misrepresenting sources and misrepresenting the scholarly consensus, his tendency to work to undermine our sourcing policies about how to determine source reliability. If one cannot trust another editor to work in good faith to improve the encyclopedia by following our policies and establishing weigting of material by using the most reliable sources, but instead to work with the personal aim of promoting a minority view by any means possible including misinterpreting our sourcing policies and spuriously rejecting high quality sources, then that is a conduct issue not a content issue. And yes my evidence supports the claim of filibustering because it is all examples of using repetitive and spurious argumentation in order to stall the process of editing. I direct anyone interested in seeing what I mean by Filibustering to look at the talkpage of the article and see how thread by thread is derailed using the same argumentation ''ad nauseam'' "Nisbett is Extreme", "you are biased", "Snyderman and Rothman says the hereditarian position is the majority (it is 25 years old)", "the transracial adoption studies provide support for the hereditarian view (mainstream sources conclude it doesn't)" etc. That IS filibustering, because it keeps discussions going in circles and prevents any work being done on the article. ] 12:30, 20 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
#@BlackHades: No I do not misrepresent you. But you misrepresent Hunt who does not say that Nisbett is extreme but that ONE STATEMENT of his is extreme (in the sense of allotting 100% influence to one set of causes it is extreme, but not in the sense of being non-mainstream). You keep trying to use that one statement of Hunt's to disqualify that one statement to suggest that Nisbett as a scholar is regarded to be outside of the mainstream. And that is a gross misrepresentation. And the fact that after having been told now by me some 6 times that Hunt is not characterizing Nisbett but Nisbett's particular statement, you still continue to repeat the false claim is an excellent example of why it is futile to try to argue with you - it is either filibustering or lack of communicative competence.] 21:21, 20 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
#I would note that BlackHades has already begun obstructing the RfC process with....filibustering and non-cooperative behavior.] 12:05, 21 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
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===Discussion concerning |
===Discussion concerning Rasteem=== | ||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. |
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | ||
====Statement by BlackHades==== | |||
====Statement by Rasteem==== | |||
There's so much Maunus is misrepresenting here. Regarding the first diff, I was politely trying to explain to Maunus that there are far more admixture studies than what his source acknowledges and was trying to open his mind to other reliable sources and to take into account all studies in the field rather just ones that would just fit a specific viewpoint. For some reason Maunus took great offensive to this, and called me "pathetic" and said I was "wasting time" in his following post. I followed this up by providing TWO very high quality secondary sources that considers a much wider range of studies that came to very difference conclusions in stark contrast to the source he provided. Which was Hunt's "Human Intelligence" and Cambridge University Press' "Handbook of Intelligence". Maunus has made 41 edits in ] in the past week. Many of which are highly controversial and yet it's as though he feels there should be absolutely no objections to any changes he makes and that everyone should just accept what he does. My objections aren't alone either. ] and ] have both raised concerns to the changes Maunus was making. | |||
This approach seems to be a coordinated attack to abandon me from Misplaced Pages indefinitely. Indeed, after my ban for 6 months. I was banned on 6 December, and in just 7 days, this report is literally an attempt to make me leave Misplaced Pages. | |||
1. I rolled back my own edit; it was last time made unintentionally. I was about to revert it, but my internet connection was lost, so when I logged in again, I regressed it. | |||
Regarding the second diff by Maunus, I've made it abundantly clear to Maunus that both the 80% genetic hypothesis of Jensen/Rushton, as well as the 100% environmental hypothesis by Nisbett, are extreme positions in the scientific field. The fact is that they're both the extreme ends and reliable secondary sources makes this repeatedly clear. I've provided Maunus with several reliable secondary sources that have considered Nisbett's positions to be extreme. Although I consider both Jensen/Rushton and Nisbett to be extremes of their respective positions, I do hold that both should have at least some weight in the article. I was just trying to get Maunus to open his mind just a little to more mainstream reliable secondary sources and not just ones that fit Nisbett's position. This is why I strongly suggested he consider Hunt's "Human Intelligence" and Cambridge University Press' "Handbook of Intelligence", both of which is critical of Nisbett's arguments (as well as Jensen/Rushton) which for some reason he seems to take great offense to. | |||
The internet is constantly slow and sometimes goes down. I live in a hilly location and I had formerly mentioned it. | |||
Regarding the third diff, ] is an extremely highly regarded study and the most comprehensive of its kind and is heavily cited by both hereditarians and environmentalists in the field. It is explained in great detail by both Hunt's "Human Intelligence" and Cambridge University Press' "Handbook of Intelligence" as well as nearly every comprehensive overview of adoption and admixture studies. Which is what made Maunus's source all the more unusual and an anomaly. I'm not sure why Maunus is bringing up age of studies as the admixture studies in his source are much older. (Flynn 1980, Loehlin et al. 1975). The ] originally published in 1976, had a follow up study published in 1996. | |||
My edits on Arjan Lake isn't any ] factual number of edits I made; it is 45, not 50. Indeed, I made similar edits before in September and December months on the same articles within a single day or 2-3 days. | |||
As to edit warring in ]. Maunus completely misrepresents the situation. The 3RR warning was placed by Aprock, who was actually the one edit warring, and who repeatedly tried to insert a POV line into what is suppose to be a neutral RfC. For which EdJohnston had to warn Aprock to stop or risk getting blocked. | |||
2. ] on this article, I've added 5680 bytes & made 43 edits. | |||
Regarding diff #5, this is further evidence that Maunus will only allow one specific position as far as sources. The topic of race is certainly very contentious, controversial, and disputed in the scientific field. The articles of wikipedia should be able to accurately represent this controversy, as it exists in the scientific field, and fairly show all significant views per ]. However, Maunus and some other editors, will only allow one specific position into these articles and repeatedly reject any source that does not support this one position, which is that races doesn't exist and all differences are environmental. This one position is certainly significant, relevant, and deserve weight in the article. The problem is the constant attempt by some editors, like Maunus, to either try to make this the ONLY view in science or the overwhelming near consensus view in science. When in actuality, the issue is extremely controversial and contentious in the scientific field. These editors have been, and still remain, to be a significant problem in these articles. Their conduct extremely difficult to deal with as has been stated by ]. Not only have there been a complete unwillingness to work with anybody that differs from this one position, they threaten anyone that differs from this one position with ArbCom. In the past, there have been problems with some editors trying to over-weigh the hereditarian position. This I completely understand and realize was a huge problem. However many editors interpret this to mean that sources that do not support the environmental position doesn't belong in the article and anyone that tries to cite otherwise should face ArbCom. The current problem in these articles appear to be the other extreme from the problem that was here previously. Which is that editors now support the extreme environmental positions of Nisbett and try to get all the race articles to match this position, and go on mass deleting sprees of quality reliable sources that would differ from this one position. Of which I recently had to start a RfC in order to stop at least some of this mass deletion. The results of the RfC came in overwhelmingly in favor of inclusion and against deletion. | |||
3. ] on this article I've added 4000 bytes & made 49 edits. | |||
I completely reject the notion by Maunus that I am a SPA. I've been involved in an extremely wide range of science related wikipedia articles completely unrelated to race. Including ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], etc. In fact, of all my article edits, all race related article edits combined only make up 34% of my article edits. I'm not sure what Maunus feels is a SPA but I'm confident this is not it. ] (]) 03:42, 19 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by (username)==== | |||
:@Mathsci. Please stop constantly making up stuff about me. Not only did I not edit this article in October 2012, I didn't edit wikipedia PERIOD in October 2012 as my history clearly shows which anyone is free to look at. So I have no idea who Mathsci is talking about when he says "editing in concert with Zeromus1 and The Devil's Advocate" but it certainly can't be me. Also when did I ever state I might report Aprock or ArtifexMayem? I challenge you to find this diff. | |||
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===Result concerning Rasteem=== | |||
:I've been extremely open and willing to work with other editors. Maunus has made 41 edits to the R&I article in the past week, whereas I have made 4. Maunus' complaint here doesn't even appear to be about any actual article edits I've made but just about me raising concerns and providing sources in Talk discussion. I was under the impression that the Talk section was meant for raising concerns, resolving disputes, and discussions for improvement. ] (]) 11:06, 19 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
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* While I don't see a change in editing pattern that indicates gaming, the edits to ] indicate issues with competence, as the article is weirdly promotional and contains phrases such as "beast species", "emotional 263 proved species". ] (]) 20:57, 13 December 2024 (UTC) <!-- | |||
--> | |||
*Adding to {{u|Femke}}'s point, {{tpq|magnific 70- cadence-high waterfalls in this area}} is not prose that inspires confidence in the editor's competence to edit the English Misplaced Pages. So, we have violations of a topic ban and questions about the editor's linguistic competence and performance. Perhaps an indefinite block appealable in six months with a recommendation to build English competency by editing the Simple English Misplaced Pages, and to build general Misplaced Pages skills by editing in the version of Misplaced Pages in the language they speak best during that minimum six month period. As for ], although the prose is poor, the references in the article make it clear to me that the topic is notable, so the editor deserves some credit for starting this article that did not exist for two decades plus. ] (]) 08:57, 14 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*Brief comment to avoid the archive bot. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 17:46, 25 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
==שלומית ליר== | |||
:@Maunus. You still continue to completely misrepresent me. As I've previously stated, Nisbett being extreme is NOT my statement. It is the statement and position held by other reliable secondary sources. As also previously stated, you continue to reject any reliable source that contradicts this one position held by Nisbett. The consensus in the field is NOT Nisbett's position yet you continue to try to make it appear to be so. As also previously stated Nisbett does absolutely deserve weight in the article. However you should cease to try to make it appear as though he is the consensus view in the field when in actuality the field is very much contentious, disputed, and controversial and as such the article should be able to accurately represent this dispute and controversy as it exists in the scientific field. In regards to transracial adoption studies, I've been VERY clear that the position on this matter directly from reliable secondary sources is that there are some studies that support the environmental hypothesis and some studies that support the genetic hypothesis, but that overall the results are inconclusive and that more studies on this matter needs to be done. I've provided you TWO reliable secondary sources that clearly states this. Hunt's "Human Intelligence" and Cambridge University Press' "Handbook of Intelligence". ] (]) 20:15, 20 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
{{hat | |||
| result = ] is reminded to double-check edits before publishing, and to try to reply more promptly when asked about potential mistakes. ] (]) 20:21, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
}} | |||
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> | |||
===Request concerning שלומית ליר=== | |||
:@Maunus. I'm not obstructing your RfC. The concerns I mentioned in your RfC are quite legitimate. Please don't try to make this something more than it actually is. ] (]) 12:53, 21 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Nableezy}} 23:48, 15 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:@Mathsci. Please. I was refuting Maunus' claim that hereditarians such as Rushton is fringe. If Maunus called Rushton's position a minority I wouldn't have said anything at all. That's not what he did. He called it fringe. Please tell the story correctly. I was refuting Maunus' claim that Rushton is fringe, I was not arguing that it is mainstream. There is a difference. Maunus is the one claiming Nisbett's position is mainstream when reliable secondary sources indicates otherwise. Maunus is the one claiming Rushton is fringe and should have no weight. Despite the fact that per policy ] this is inaccurate. When I've repeatedly asked Maunus for a source to support his bold claim, he can't produce any. Yet he's made it clear that he intends to over-weigh Nisbett's position. | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|שלומית ליר}}<p>{{ds/log|שלומית ליר}}</p> | |||
:I've been consistently adamant that the article should follow wikipedia policy per ]. Which is that all significant views in reliable sources should be represented and that weight should be determined by the prominence of the position in reliable sources. Significant views in reliable sources would range from the extreme genetic position of Jensen/Rushton to the extreme environmental position of Nisbett/Flynn and everything else in between. I've maintained the highest weight should be based on positions held by prestigious scientific organizations, such as the APA, and high quality textbooks such as Hunt's "Human Intelligence". I never at any point argued that Rushton should have the highest weight. Maunus, however, did argue that Rushton should have zero weight. A clear violation of ] and ]. At the same time, Maunus is arguing that Nisbett deserves the highest weight and continues to insist that Nisbett's extreme environmental position is the de facto mainstream position of the field. Despite being unable to produce any reliable source to support his bold claim. Despite the fact that Nisbett's position is contradictory to the position of the American Psychological Association and high level textbooks like Hunt's "Human Intelligence". Maunus is guilty of the clause that he originally accused me of. | |||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] | |||
:I would like to highlight a perfect example: | |||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | |||
:Maunus wrote that Nisbett's et al's "Intelligence: New findings and theoretical developments” should have the highest weight. Now there have been many criticism against this paper, as is certainly expected in a scientific field that is as contentious, disputed, and controversial as this one. The criticism to this study include: | |||
#] claiming a source supports something it never mentions | |||
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : | |||
::Rushton, J. Philippe. "No narrowing in mean Black–White IQ differences—Predicted by heritable g." (2012): American Psychologist 67(6) 500-501 | |||
N/A | |||
::MA Woodley, G Meisenberg. “Ability differentials between nations are unlikely to disappear” (2012) American Psychologist 67(6) 501-502 | |||
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]): | |||
:Now Nisbett et al did respond to these criticism which is: | |||
*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on ] (see the system log linked to above). | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | |||
::Nisbett, Richard E., et al. "Group differences in IQ are best understood as environmental in origin." (2012): American Psychologist 67(6) 503-504 | |||
The user wrote that NATO had supported accusations against Hamas citing a titled Hamas and Human Rights in a book titled . They cited the entire chapter, pages 56–126. The source itself is a work of scholarship, and nobody would challenge it as a reliable source. Luckily, the full text of the book is available via the , and anybody with access to that can verify for themselves that the word "shield" appears nowhere in the book. Not human shield, or even NATO (nato appears in searches with the results being "expla'''nator'''y, twice and coordi'''nato'''r once, or Atlantic, or N.A.T.O. It is simply made up that this source supports that material. The user later, after being challenged but declining to answer what in the source supports it (see ]), added another source that supposedly supports the material, paper by NATO StratCom COE, however they themselves say they are , though that misunderstanding is certainly forgivable. However, completely making up that a source supports something, with a citation to 70 pages of a book, is less so. That is to me a purposeful attempt at obfuscating that the source offered does not support the material added, and the lack of any attempt of explaining such an edit on the talk page led me to file a report here. ''']''' - 23:48, 15 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:It’s a matter for AE because violations in a CT topic are AE matters and I’ve previously been told to come here instead of AN(I). What sanction? I don’t think there’s any action more serious than making up something about a source, so I’d say it would be anywhere from a logged, and first only, warning to a topic ban. The second sourcing issue isn’t a huge deal, but the first one, the diff im reporting, is IMO such a severe violation that it merits a sanction. I don’t think this is simply misrepresentation, it is complete fabrication. They cited 70 pages of a book without a quote, to a link that doesn’t have the text. Without the Misplaced Pages Library this would have been much more difficult to check. This is going back a while, but ] was a similar situation reported here. If there had been some explanation given on the talk page I wouldn’t have reported this here, but the wholesale fabrication of claiming that a source that never mentions the topic supports some material was ignored there. ''']''' - 14:28, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:Here's the problem. Maunus argues that Nisbett's et al's original paper should have the highest weight. He then argues that the criticism to this paper should have zero weight. And then also states that Nisbett's et al's direct response to this criticism should have the highest weight. | |||
::I want to be clear, I am not claiming any sanctionable behavior in the second diff. I only brought it up to say that rather than address the fabrication in the first one they simply attempted to add some other source. They have as yet not addressed the diff I am reporting here. I am only claiming an issue in that diff citing the book chapter for a book that never even says the word shield in it. ''']''' - 19:47, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::According to , the insertion of that source was ], the diff I've reported. As far as I can tell no other user has introduced that source on that page. The revision that the user below says has the sources they took from {{tq|in the article's edit history}} is ''after'' the insertion of that source by that user. If there is some prior revision showing that source being used for that statement then I'd withdraw my complaint, but that does not appear to be the case. ''']''' - 19:58, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
::::If that is indeed reproducible then I suggest this be closed with a reminder, not a logged warning, to check the output of any tool more thoroughly. And answer questions about your edits when raised on the talk page instead of ignoring them. ''']''' - 19:50, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::::Just noting that I verified the bug in the VE sandbox as well. Had I been told of that sequence when I asked about the edit I obviously would not have opened this request. ''']''' - 18:25, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
:So the question becomes is Nisbett et al coming from a more reliable source than the criticism and is it more prevalent in that source? That would certainly explain Maunus giving high weight to Nisbett et al and no weight to the criticism of it. But here's the thing, the criticism is from the SAME SOURCE. Not only are they from the same source, it is from the exact same journal, same date, same issue. | |||
] | |||
===Discussion concerning שלומית ליר=== | |||
:Note all the citations above are from “American Psychologist 67(6) (2012)” With Rushton being on pages 500-501, Woodley and Meisenberg being on pages 501-502 and Nisbett et al being on pages 503-504. There's no indication by American Psychologist that it favors one view or the other. American Psychologist gave equal weight and time to these 3 positions in the same journal and issue date. Yet Maunus says the criticism to Nisbett et al should have zero weight while Nisbett's response to the criticism should have the highest weight. Even when they're from the same source! ] (]) 09:53, 22 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | |||
====Statement by |
====Statement by שלומית ליר==== | ||
The article "Use of human shields by Hamas" is intended to address a well-documented phenomenon: Hamas’s deliberate use of civilian infrastructure — homes, hospitals, and mosques — as shields for its military operations. This includes hiding weapons, constructing military tunnels beneath civilian populations, and knowingly placing innocent lives in harm’s way. Yet, I found the article falls far short of adequately describing this phenomenon. It presents vague and generalized accusations while failing to reference the numerous credible organizations that have extensively documented these practices. | |||
I have been only tangentially involved in the most recent dispute, because I objected to Maunus slanting the lede by removing nearly all mention of hereditarian views. My observation has been that there is a lot of rhetoric about sourcing thrown about by some editors in the midst of disputes in this topic area to try and set the stage for removing editors who disagree with them through a process such as AE. "Misrepresenting sources", "misuse of sources", and "cherry-picking", are common buzz words that I find rarely being explained by those throwing them about. Here Maunus is misrepresenting the nature of the "edit-warring" on the Race and Genetics talk page. After ] where Aprock's primary involvement was to say there was no point in discussing because it was a "clear case of cherry-picking" the decision was made to have an RFC on wording in the article. Aprock repeatedly tried to that was blatantly geared towards cementing his position. Maunus subsequently on the edit-warring to restore that slanted wording to the RfC. We managed to reach a satisfactory solution that had Aprock's statement clearly attributed and put in a prominent space where it was less objectionable, but it just shows the kind of conduct BH has to deal with in the R&I topic area. My opinion is that removing BH from the topic area will not be beneficial for the objectivity of the article's content. Maunus, Aprock, and other editors need to be more open to discussion and collaboration.--] <sub>] ]</sub> 00:23, 19 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
:Sandstein, the previous AE block BlackHades received was for the SPI in question, not edit-warring as Maunus claimed. As I already explained in my previous comment the other edit-warring claim was due to Aprock trying to add biased information to the wording of an RfC.--] <sub>] ]</sub> 13:46, 19 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
During my review, I discovered that essential sources were available in the article's edit history (https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Use_of_human_shields_by_Hamas&oldid=1262868174). I retrieved and restored these sources without reverting prior edits, including a source referenced by user Nableezy. When it was brought to my attention that an error had occurred, I acknowledged it, thanked the user, and corrected it by incorporating two reliable references. I had hoped this would resolve the issue, but apparently, it did not. | |||
====Statement by Aprock==== | |||
While not viewable to all, I think ] is another good illustration of BlackHades' disruption. ] (]) 03:26, 19 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
Now, I find myself the subject of an arbitration enforcement hearing that feels not only unwarranted but intended to intimidate me from contributing further to this article. | |||
:@Sandstein, The issue of content versus conduct is certainly relevant here. Editors resort to various conduct behaviors to promote their preferred content. The principles laid out in ] enumerate aspects of conduct which are relevant here: | |||
I would also like to point out that the responses to my edits raise serious concerns. For instance, an image depicting missiles hidden in a family home — an image used in other Wikipedias to illustrate this topic — was removed. This raises the question: why obscure such critical evidence? Similarly, a scholarly source with credible information that emphasizes the severity of this issue was reverted without clear justification. | |||
:# ] | |||
:# ] | |||
:# ] | |||
:# ] | |||
This article should serve as a thorough account of Hamas's war crimes, which have resulted in the deaths of innocent civilians. Instead, it seems that some editors are working to dilute its substance, resisting efforts to include vital context and documentation at the start of the article. This undermines the article’s purpose and risks distorting the public’s understanding of an issue of profound international importance.] (]) 19:52, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:Similarly, the primary finding of fact characterizes the conduct/behavior of the disruptive editors: | |||
:I want to add that what Nableezy’s accusation is a complete misrepresentation (and, at times, distortion) of the sequence of events. A reference was mistakenly carried over from a previous editor, and once it was pointed out that it lacked the necessary supporting quotes, I removed it myself. | |||
: | |||
:I find it difficult to accept that failing to respond immediately to an inquiry regarding a removed source (and good faith attempt to find a sufficient replacement) equates to misrepresentation. I strongly believe that using this forum to imply such a thing, based on the actual facts here, is a misuse of the process. | |||
:To the arbitrators: I want to ensure the sequence of events is clear, so I request permission to strike through extraneous elements in my initial response, if necessary, to include more technical evidence while staying within the 500-word limit ] (]) 21:06, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:: <small>(moved from V93's comment)</small> It’s simple. If you copy the reference from the previous version: ''<nowiki/>'Hamas' use of human shields in Gaza' (PDF), NATO Strategic Communications Centre of Excellence,'' and add it using the automatic reference tool, it changes it to: Mukhimer, Tariq (2013), ''Hamas and Human Rights'', ''Hamas Rule in Gaza'', New York: Palgrave Macmillan US, pp. 56–126, ISBN 978-1-349-45658-1, retrieved 2024-12-17. | |||
:It may be that it is outside the scope of AE to determine whether or not the conduct of BlackHades is in opposition to the listed principles of ], and whether or not the findings of fact apply to his conduct. If that's the case, being clear on that fact would be very helpful. ] (]) 14:45, 19 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
::This is an innocent error caused by the Wiki program itself. You can try it and see for yourself. | |||
::'''Where it led and what Nableezy allowed himself to do is a story by itself that demands investigation''' ] (]) 12:21, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:While I see your point, '''the issue here was indeed caused by a bug in the 'Add a Cite' tool on automatic mode.''' | |||
*:I suggest you take the time to verify this before jumping to far-reaching conclusions. | |||
*:. ] (]) 23:48, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:Thanks for checking it out and confirming; I appreciate it. ] (]) 23:25, 17 December 2024 (UTC) <small>Moved comment to own section. Please comment only in this section. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 23:47, 17 December 2024 (UTC) </small> | |||
====Comment by Mathsci==== | |||
My understanding of Maunus' complaint is that BlackHades has been systematically misrepresenting or ignoring sources to push a minority point of view as mainstream. Maunus is trained as an academic anthropologist and is the first regular editor since August 2010 that has attempted to improve the problematic article ]. While doing so, he has apparently encountered ] from BlackHades of the same kind that led to his request for a Nature & Nurture topic ban for {{userlink|Acadēmica Orientālis}} a year ago. His frustration presumably led to | |||
this report. It is unclear how this situation can be resolved. | |||
*:::True, and I would most definitely will check next time. ] (]) 23:50, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
A factor that has continued to complicate the editing environment in ] has been the appearance of editors that appear to be socks of banned users. The most recent such account was {{userlink|Akuri}}, who interacted with BlackHades, lent support to his edits and has been supported by him. Akuri was blocked by arbitrators in May and his talk page access revoked in June. Since then there has been no on-wiki disruption traceable to banned users. ] (]) 05:40, 20 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
'''Update.''' Maunus has started an RfC on sourcing for the article ], so some time should be allowed to see how matters develop. ] (]) 08:28, 21 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Supreme Deliciousness==== | |||
{{userlink|Professor marginalia}} accurately described the current problems in . BlackHades still appears to be pushing a minority point of view as mainstream, using a wide variety of arguments. Having something published in book-form or in a peer-reviewed journal is no guarantee that it is not a minority point of view. BlackHades continues to suggest otherwise. In this fairly typical diff BlackHades in addition makes disparaging remarks about ], a social psychologist. In 1991 Nisbett was a recipient of the prestigious ]. In 2002 he was elected a Member of the ]. Yet BlackHades in the diff writes of an article wholly unrelated to ], "Are you familiar with his "Telling more than we can know: Verbal reports on mental process (1977)" paper? It's the paper that made him infamous and brought on strong condemnation from the psychology field." Nisbett is not "infamous" nor has he received "strong condemnation from the psychology field." That kind of ] has nothing at all to do with content and is a BLP violation. ] (]) 08:38, 22 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
Valereee created the article ]. She is therefor involved in the topic area and shouldn't be editing in the uninvolved admin section.--] (]) 08:41, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Comment by Johnuniq==== | |||
Science can be used to prove all sorts of things, and now an analysis shows that R&I is at #9 in (from ]). | |||
====Statement by (username)==== | |||
I do not know if AE can help, but something is needed to assist editors known to value the encyclopedia, as they compete with those with a special interest. ] (]) 10:32, 19 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. --> | |||
===Result concerning BlackHades=== | |||
<!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.--> | |||
<small>''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''</small> | |||
===Result concerning שלומית ליר=== | |||
The arbitration process, and by extension its enforcement, only resolves conduct disputes, not content disputes. To the extent this case presents any conduct problems, they are not presented in such a way that would allow me to distinguish them from the content disagreement that appears to be underlying this dispute. Editors may legitimately disagree about which sources should be used, especially on talk pages, without engaging in forbidden advocacy. The measured response by Black Hades also does not give me the impression that they are here to push a particular point of view. To determine whether any advocacy has happened here, I would need to engage in a thorough review of the apparently complicated scientific literature on the subject, which is not feasible in the context of this process and would also require me in effect to take a position in the content dispute. The only indications of possible conduct problems are the edit-warring allegations (which however are undated and not supported by diffs of the alleged edit-warring) and the issue of the sockpuppet investigation request mentioned by Aprock that was deleted as frivolous (and rightly so, in my view), but that was in February 2013 and therefore does not appear actionable any more at this time, at least not on its own. I would therefore decline to take action here and advise both parties to engage more thoroughly in the ] process, for instance by inviting third-party comments, to resolve their content disagreement. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 06:04, 19 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
:Maunus, I am still not convinced that AE can or should do something about your complaint. Broadly speaking, "content dispute" means "any disagreement about what should be in an article". This includes disagreements about which sources to use and why. Admittedly it is sometimes difficult to distinguish between some types of content disagreements and conduct problems. Certain policies and guidelines cover both content and conduct. For instance, ] requires neutral content, but it also requires editors to behave in a manner conducive to producing a neutral reference work ("all editors and articles must follow it"). Determining the point at which a content disagreement also becomes a conduct problem can be very difficult, especially in specialized academic topics such as this one. This calls for restraint on the part of administrators. For example, writing stuff like "All white people are stupid and it is proven by science!!!" into this article might well be an obvious violation of ] also in its aspect as a conduct policy (in addition to vandalism), and therefore sanctionable via this board. And if a person is continuously adding material that changes articles in favor of only one particular point of view, it may be possible (depending on circumstances) to infer from this behavior that their intent is not to make Misplaced Pages more neutral, without needing to examine the merits of their individual edits. But a disagreement that is broadly within the scope of good-faith discourse between educated persons, or academics specializing in the field (as this one seems to be) is often beyond the reach of AE. That's because for the purpose of determining whether one editor is (for example) inadmissibly adding non-neutral content to articles, I would need to read all the literature on this topic myself, for which I have neither the time nor the inclination. The Arbitration Committee may occasionally be able to examine a dispute in this depth, but individual admins will hardly ever be able to. We also need to take care that we do not inadvertently begin "resolving" good-faith content disputes with admin tools. <p>Now, your new allegation that BlackHades engages in disruptive talk page "filibustering" is at least potentially a conduct issue. But it is not at all supported by the evidence you submitted, which is all about other issues such as the scientific merits of what BlackHades says on talk pages. To substantiate this new allegation, you would need to supply proper evidence - dated diffs - of the alleged filibustering, and explain why these diffs mean that BlackHades has violated any particular talk page conduct policy or guideline. If you cannot prove your allegation, you should not make it at all, because making allegations of misconduct without evidence is generally ] and may, if repeated, lead to sanctions against you. I still think that it is probably advisable for all of you to go back on the talk page and experiment with content dispute resolution methods such as ] or ]. <p>Everybody else, please do not complicate this issue further by including allegations relating to other users or situations; this is not a general dispute resolution forum. Please limit your statements to what is helpful to determine whether any conduct reported here by Maunus or possibly BlackHades is sanctionable via AE. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 19:42, 19 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
* Please forgive my ignorance, but what specific sanction are you requesting and what exactly makes this possible interconnected source misrepresentation a matter that needs AE? Is the information removed (I'm assuming it is). Is this a long-term pattern? The filing even admits that the second instance is understandable given the name of the group putting out the source. I would be more concerned if this was a continuing problem - are there other recent instances of this editor possibly misrepresenting a source? And I'm still not sure that source misrepresntation is something that falls under AE's remit, rather than just something that could be dealt with at ANI or AN? Not saying no, but I'm not sure we need the big gun of AE for this just yet. ] (]) 13:02, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
::OK, I think we're still firmly in content dispute territory, what with the parties continuing to discuss the merits of academic works here. Without objection by other admins within 24 hours, I'll close this as not actionable. The ] isn't an impediment to that closure, but rather, in my view, a step in the right direction towards resolving this dispute. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 09:07, 21 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
** I'm not sure I'm ready to (1) take a 2011 discussion as binding in 2024 and (2) decide unilaterally that "violations in a CT topic are AE matters". Sorry, but I'm not that much of a cowboy (despite the cowboy hat in my closet and the ] horses in my paddock). I'm not trying to be difficult and not at all trying to minimize the severity of source misrepresentation - but I do not see where this topic area has sanctions authorized for that specific behavior - civility and aspersions yeah, but I'd like to see what other admins think. I also would like to see if שלומית ליר has any statement to make (while noting that not replying here is a very bad look for them). ] (]) 14:40, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::Right... since nobody else wants to comment here, I'm closing this (as reported) as a non-actionable content dispute. I recommend focusing your efforts on the content RfC that has now started. However, both parties must remember not to resort to unhelpful hyperbole in the face of disagreements. Maunus should take care not to make allegations of misconduct without evidence, and BlackHades must not make unsourced derogatory statements about living persons (as highlighted by Mathsci), including in talk page discussions. I'm warning both about this. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 20:26, 22 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
**:I would agree with Nableezy's view regarding jurisdiction, and was under the impression that this was already standard practice. AE is intended to address disruptive editing in designated contentious topics--source misrepresentation is definitely disruptive editing even if it was not specifically a matter of issue for the parties to ARBPIA4. <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 14:45, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
***: I'm perfectly happy to be shown that it's a matter for AE, I've just not seen it dealt with that I can remember (bearing in mind that I'm not as young as some other folks and can forget things) and I don't see it mentioned in the CT topics bits or in the case pages referred to. I prefer to err on the side of caution in these matters. ] (]) 14:50, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
***::To my reading it would be directly justified by ] point 2: {{tq| ...requests for an individual enforcement action against aware editors who engage in misconduct in a contentious topic}} <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 14:57, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
***::] is a report where I ~recently sanctioned for source misrepresentation. ] (]) 15:00, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*: I'm sorry - but I find this explanation ... not quite believable. Nableezy is saying that the Mukhimer source was introduced ]. You claim that "If you copy the reference from the previous version: 'Hamas' use of human shields in Gaza' (PDF), NATO Strategic Communications Centre of Excellence, and add it using the automatic reference tool, it changes it to: Mukhimer, Tariq (2013), Hamas and Human Rights, Hamas Rule in Gaza, New York: Palgrave Macmillan US, pp. 56–126, ISBN 978-1-349-45658-1, retrieved 2024-12-17." What automatic reference tool? And even if the tool is malfunctioning - you are responsible for your edits - especially in such a fraught topic area. Looking at the ] its pretty clear that the first citation is listing the author as "Mukhimer" which should have clued you in (if indeed the automatic tool is a problem) that there was an issue. And when Nableezy raised this issue on the talk page - you didn't actually try this explanation or even any explanation, you just replied "I thought you noticed and understood that I had updated the references." which is deeply concerning that you did not consider the fact that you inserted references that did not support the material (and yes, I did do a rapid read/skim of the Mukhimer work's chapter that was in that citation - the chapter is mostly concerned with Hamas' internal governance and human rights record. I saw nothing discussing human shields or even the war with Israel in that chapter (the chapter does discuss Hamas' actions against Gazans that Hamas accuses of spying/etc for Israel, but nothing about actual military conflict)). The lack of collaborative explanation and the seeming unconcern about the issues brought up are making me lean towards a topic ban, frankly. | |||
*: I apologize that it took me a while to circle back to this - yesterday was a day of small things breaking and needing to be taken care of and I didn't have the time in the afternoon that I expected to revisit this. ] (]) 14:27, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:: And add yet one more reason to not use VE.... if its some weird bug, then yes, a warning is sufficient. But, really, you need to double check when you use tools to make sure that there are not bugs (and yes, Visual Editor is buggy...) ] (]) 20:16, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I've gone on record saying that I consider source misrepresentation to be some of the most disruptive conduct in a contentious topic - it is insidious in a way that calling another editor names is not. That does not mean I support sanctions by default, but I do think we need to take such a report seriously. A lot depends on the specific circumstances - the second instance above seems like a very easy mistake to make - but I would like to hear from שלומית ליר. ] (]) 19:41, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:שלומית ליר, I would like to see a specific response to Nableezy's evidence about where you got your source, so please go ahead and strike or collapse parts of your original statement (please don't remove anything entirely). NB; we are (mostly) administrators enforcing arbitration decisions here, not arbitrators ourselves. ] (]) 21:19, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I agree with Vanamonde that source misrepresentation is disruptive on its face, and the first time I see it, AGF is pretty much gone. ] (]) 19:55, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:I agree that if this was a bug -- which is really concerning -- then a logged warning is overkill, especially given this editor's inexperience. ] (]) 15:19, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I'm not sure what "automatic reference tool" is being referred to here, but I'm generally not impressed with "It was the tool's fault." Editors are responsible for the edits they make, and while of course there's no problem with using tools to help, the editor, not the tool, is still responsible for ensuring that the final result accurately represents the sources which are cited. Overall, I'd tend toward Ealdgyth's line of thinking; source misrepresentation is an extremely serious form of misconduct and must under no circumstances be tolerated. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 15:39, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:{{u|שלומית ליר}}, it has now been necessary on several occasions to move your comments to the proper section from other editors' sections or this one. '''Do not comment outside your own section again.''' ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 09:13, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:Above stuff out of the way, if this actually is reproducible, it may be wise to check Phabricator to see if such an issue has been reported—chances are pretty good this isn't the only time that bug will bite. I'm good with a logged warning to more carefully vet the output of automated editing tools before making the edit, given that. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 09:16, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:: Isn't a logged warning a bit too much for not catching a bug? I'd rather go for a reminder as Nableezy suggests. Will check Phab or open a new phab ticket when I've got a bit more time. ] (]) 11:16, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:::I still don't ''love'' the whole thing, but it seems that most people want to just do an informal reminder, so I've got no strong objection (of course, as long as the bug actually does get reported, if it's not been already.) ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 17:49, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
* To my surprise, it's true that copying that text into VE's automatic citation formatter gives this output. Most absurd bug I've ever seen. Of course it's an editor's responsibility to check if the citation is correct, but this is not something you might think to check for, especially as a newer editor. While intentionally misrepresenting a source is highly disruptive, I don't think this weird error is sanctionable. I would like to give ] one piece of advice for editing a contentious topic like this: always use edit summaries (you can change your settings so that you're warned if you forget them). That can help reduce misunderstandings. ] (]) 19:05, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
* I agree with Femke about how to resolve this request, including the advice to check things and to use edit summaries. I am also extremely concerned about the bug-created citation issue and wonder where is the best place to request that the error be investigated and fixed. ] (]) 14:58, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
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==KronosAlight== | |||
== Arbitration enforcement action appeal by No More Mr Nice Guy == | |||
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> | |||
===Request concerning KronosAlight=== | |||
<small>''Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found ]. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. <p>To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see ]).''</small> | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Butterscotch Beluga}} 03:16, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|KronosAlight}}<p>{{ds/log|KronosAlight}}</p> | |||
; Appealing user : {{userlinks|No More Mr Nice Guy}} – ] (]) 08:25, 19 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
; Sanction being appealed : Ban from participating in AE except to defend myself, imposed at ], logged at ] | |||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] | |||
; Administrator imposing the sanction : {{admin|Sandstein}} | |||
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | |||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | |||
; Notification of that administrator : | |||
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.--> | |||
# | |||
:*Adds "depiste being an ex-Muslim" to dismiss accusations of Islamophobia ]. | |||
:*Adds ] around ‘promoted Islamophobia’ & ‘Islamophobia’ while removing the supporting context. | |||
:*Changed "interpreted that statement as a threat and incitement to violence" to "claimed was a threat and incitement to violence, though no threats or violence in fact occurred" ] & ] | |||
# - ] | |||
:*Changes "Israeli settlers" to "Israeli soldiers" despite | |||
# - ] | |||
# - ] | |||
:* Unnecessarily specific additions that may constitute ] such as adding "against civilians" & changing "prevent the assassinations of many Israelis" to "prevent the assassinations of many Israeli civilians and soldiers" | |||
# - ] | |||
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : | |||
===Statement by No More Mr Nice Guy=== | |||
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.--> | |||
# Warned to abide by the one-revert rule when making edits within the scope of the Arab-Israeli conflict topic area. | |||
# Blocked from editing for 1 week for violating consensus required on the page ] | |||
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]): | |||
I made a good faith AE complaint. I have never been warned (or even accused) of using AE improperly. I have a completely clean record. I think this sanction is disproportionate for a first offense (even when ignoring the lack of AGF). I would like the sanction lifted. | |||
*Previously given a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction or warned for conduct in the area of conflict on by {{admin|ScottishFinnishRadish}}. | |||
@Sandstein: The fact I made no mainspace edits since my ban doesn't allow you to "to ascertain whether the problems that caused the ban have since disappeared"? I haven't made any edits because I was somewhat upset that a good faith report I made at AE about something that has been bothering me and other Jewish editors for years, was dismissed out of hand by a single administrator over the weekend following the 4th of July. So I took a short wikibreak. Now you're trying to hold that against me as if it can be in any way relevant to this appeal? How exactly are mainspace edits relevant to a ban from AE? | |||
*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on . | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | |||
As for understanding why I was sanctioned, I understand perfectly. You think I was not acting in good faith. The thing is, I ''was'' acting in good faith. If you had bothered to follow the diffs (which you admitted you only glanced at) you would have seen that except for the "chosen people" thing, in every case I told Nishidani that he was using offensive language and that if he continues I would eventually seek admin intervention. I apparently made a mistake regarding the willingness of the administration here to deal with this sort of thing (anyone remember the ] fiasco? a little reminder. It took 4 threads at ANI to get this eventually taken care of. Imagine if the first complaint would have resulted in someone being banned. The chilling effect would have probably left that article in the encyclopedia). Anyway, I understand why I was sanctioned. Because an administrator did not assume good faith. | |||
All edits were made at ]. After I with an explanation, I , asking for their rationale. | |||
They replied that they were & asked if I "perhaps have a deeper bias that’s influencing decisions in this respect?" | |||
They then | |||
@bbb, I think someone can troll and bait Jews without necessarily being antisemitic. I hope I'm not exceeding the limits of my ban, but see for example short discussion, which I included in my original complaint. Gratuitous off-topic "look what a bad Jew did" when talking to someone you think is Jewish doesn't necessarily mean you're an antisemite. It is textbook ] though, designed to bait Jews. | |||
: ] - While I can't find any comments where they were explicitly ''"warned for casting aspersions"'', they were to ] in the topic area. | |||
@Cailil & John Carter: If I'm banned from making AE complaints, "the behaviour that led to " would stop by definition, since I won't be allowed to repeat it because I'd be banned from making AE complaints. | |||
:Also, apologies for my ''"diffs of edits that violate this sanction"'' section, this is the first time I've filed a request here & I thought it'd be best to explain the ''preamble'' to my revert, but I understand now that I misunderstood the purpose of that section & will remember such for the future. - ] (]) 15:37, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
@Ed: What does making neutral edits in the ARBPIA domain have to do with being banned from making AE complaints? I thought these things were supposed to be preventative, not punitive. My ARBPIA editing is not and has not been an issue here. Why are you trying to tie it into this ban? | |||
:@] I was able to find a copy of the opinion article being cited . ] (]) 20:14, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
@Seraphimblade: In the thread above this one the editor was not required to demonstrate positive editing or anything of the sort. That issue never came up. | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
@Ed: That's ridiculous. My complaint was only tangentially related to the ARBPIA topic and was about editor conduct. Anyway, I already have a "record of neutral edits in the ARBPIA area", almost 6000 of them over several years without even as much as a warning regarding neutrality or anything else. Nobody has shown I have some kind of pattern of misbehavior that I need to change. That's one of the reasons I made this appeal. A ban without any prior history of misbehavior is harsh and pretty uncommon. Now adding unrelated conditions to it has a strong smell of punishment rather than prevention. But whatever. Do what you want. I'm still trying to get over the fact that no less than 6 of you found the time to look into this pretty unimportant appeal, but only one of you could be bothered to look into a serious misconduct claim. Amazing. Now go ahead and throw the book at the troublemaker that makes noises you don't want to hear. Misplaced Pages's reputation is well earned. | |||
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
===Discussion concerning KronosAlight=== | |||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | |||
====Statement by KronosAlight==== | |||
This is a complete waste of the Arbitration Committee’s time. | |||
1. That Yousef was born and raised a Muslim is important and neutral context for readers to be aware of when the article refers to claims of ‘Islamophobia’. | |||
2. The scarequotes indicate that the claim comes from the sources provided, rather than being an objective ‘fact’ determined by a few Misplaced Pages Editors with an axe to grind. | |||
3. This was already addressed on the Talk page and I updated the sentence to say settlers/soldiers with a further label that it needed further clarification because the source does not in fact unambiguously say what Butterscotch Beluga claims. | |||
A few lines above what Butterscotch Beluga quotes is the following lines: “AMANPOUR: How did you take part in that? Were you one of the small children who threw rocks at Israeli soldiers? | |||
YOUSEF: The model for every Palestinian child is a mujahid (ph) or a fidahi (ph) or a fighter. So, of course, I wanted to be one at that point of my life. It wasn't -- it's not my only dream. It's every child's dream in that territory.” | |||
The updated Wiki page noted both settlers/soldiers and included a note that this requires further clarification, perhaps based on other sources, because it isn’t clear (contra Butterscotch Beluga) whether he is referring to soldiers or settlers. | |||
4. It is not controversial to accurately describe Hamas as a terrorist organisation. It is simply a fact. To suggest otherwise is POV-pushing. | |||
5. This is not POVPUSH; ‘assassinations’ against civilians during peacetime are usually called ‘murders’. | |||
I in fact didn’t even remove the word ‘assassinations’, I merely broadened the description from ‘Israelis’ to ‘Israeli civilians and soldiers’ (as Butterscotch accepted) to indicate the breadth of the individuals in question included both civilians and combatants. This is not POVPUSH, it is simply additional information and context verified in the source itself. | |||
All in all, a vexatious claim and a waste of the Arbitration Committee’s time. | |||
====Statement by Sean.hoyland==== | |||
Regarding "I was correcting factual errors introduced by previous antisemitic editors", it would be helpful if KronosAlight would explicitly identify the antisemitic editors and the edits they corrected so that they can be blocked for being antisemitic editors. ] (]) 08:17, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
The editor has been here since 2012. It is reasonable to assume that they know the rules regarding aspersions. It is reasonable to assume they are intentionally violating them, presumably because they genuinely believe they are dealing with antisemitic editors. So, this report is somehow simultaneously a vexatious complete waste of time and the result of the someone interfering with their valiant efforts to correct errors made by antisemitic editors. Why do they have this belief? , a comment they had the good sense to revert. For me, this is an example of someone attempting to use propaganda that resembles antisemitic conspiracy theories about media control to undermine Misplaced Pages's processes and then changing their mind. But the very fact that they thought of it is disturbing. Their revert suggests that they are probably aware that there are things you can say about an editor and things you cannot say about an editor. From my perspective, what we have here is part of an emerging pattern in the topic area, a growing number of attacks on Misplaced Pages and editors with accusations of antisemitism, cabals etc. stemming in part from external partisan sources/influence operations. ] (]) 17:35, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Zero0000==== | |||
@Cailil: Say what? I was responding to a falsification of something I said. That's "precisely what got banned"? Are you kidding me? | |||
Aspersions: | |||
* | |||
* | |||
* | |||
* | |||
]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 10:36, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
===Statement by |
====Statement by Vice regent==== | ||
{{u|KronosAlight}}, you on 14 Dec 2024: "{{tq|An open letter signed by Christian and Muslim religious leaders interpreted that statement as a threat and incitement to violence}}" to "{{tq|An open letter signed by Christian and Muslim religious leaders claimed was a threat and incitement to violence, though no threats or violence in fact occurred}}". | |||
I disagree with the appellant that the ban from AE (with respect to the Arab-Israeli conflict topic only) for making a frivolous AE request is disproportionate. | |||
Can you show where either of the sources state "though no threats or violence in fact occurred"? ''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 18:07, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
Discretionary sanctions in particular can be wide-ranging and severe, and requesting them for specious or abusive reasons (including, in this case, unfounded allegations or insinuations of antisemitism) has the effect of harassment or gaming the system. This is particularly so in the topic area of the Arab-Israeli conflict, where there are entrenched groups of editors each associated with a particular point of view who have been sniping at each other through various processes for, in some cases, years on end. AE must not become another weapon with which to pursue factional conflicts, but it must only be used to address genuine cases (or risks) of misconduct. | |||
====Statement by Smallangryplanet==== | |||
In addition, the appellant does not indicate in their appeal that they understand why they were sanctioned, what they would now do differently if once again allowed to participate here, or in which situation it would have been beneficial for Misplaced Pages or the AE process if they had been allowed to participate at AE. | |||
Wanted to add some pertinent evidence: | |||
'''Talk:Zionism''': | |||
Finally, they have made no mainspace edits and hardly any other edits since having been banned from AE on 6 July. This is not a good sign also, because it does not allow us to ascertain whether the problems that caused the ban have since disappeared. | |||
* | |||
For these reasons, I recommend to decline the appeal. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 08:54, 19 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
* | |||
* | |||
* | |||
'''Talk:Allegations of genocide in the 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon''': | |||
:This case is very similar to that of ], also indef-banned by T.Canens from AE for a frivolous AE request. As in that case, I'd have no problem with lifting the ban if there are no problems with the appellant's editing for a lengthy period of time. But come to think of it, it doesn't really matter if the ban is lifted or shortened now, because in any case the appellant faces more serious sanctions if they contribute disruptively to this noticeboard again. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 08:55, 21 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
* | |||
===Statement by Zero0000=== | |||
I am "involved" in the sense that I edit in the Israel/Palestine area and have had numerous content disagreements with NMMNG. I also argued against the AE case that NMMNG brought against Nishidani, that led to his AE ban. So I am not speaking as an ally of NMMNG when I say that I do ''not'' believe he was acting in bad faith. Biased, yes, mistaken, yes, bad faith, no. NMMNG should set a much higher threshold before accusing someone of antisemitism. Meanwhile, I suggest to administrators that they ignore the slanging match between NMMNG and Sandstein and bring the following compromise judgement: adjust the indefinite AE ban into a one-month ban, starting at the original date (July 6). ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 05:19, 20 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
:For the record, I did not accuse Nishidani of antisemitism. I accused him of Jew-baiting and trolling. That's not the same thing. ] (]) 08:50, 20 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
'''Talk:Relations between Nazi Germany and the Arab world''': | |||
===Statement by Pluto2012=== | |||
(Nb: I am involved in the topic of the I-P articles and had some interactions with NMMNG that were not bad but long time ago...) | |||
* | |||
I tried to make NMMNG realize around 8 months ago that his involvment in contentious articles was not good for him : . | |||
'''Talk:2024 Lebanon electronic device attacks''': | |||
He didn't follow the advice and recently expressed himself his "disgust" for wikipedia : | |||
* | |||
He has become a problem and his request against Nishidani is just an example. I fear that he will soon be totally banned <u>if</u> he doesn't cool down. Assuming his Good Faith (WP:AGF) or not is not the question today. He is currently no more here for the project because of some bitterness and he doesn't Assume Good Faith at all on his side. | |||
'''Talk:Anti-Zionism''': | |||
I would suggest he takes a few weeks/months wikibreak and comes back with a better mood. He should consider the proposal. I think the community could leave this ban immediately to show/prove him that we think he could be very usefull for the project ''but'' with another mind. And if he understands the advice properly, he will not edits AE pages any more and self-ban from these... | |||
* | |||
] (]) 07:38, 20 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
* | |||
:I believe the above was prompted by . ] (]) 08:55, 20 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
::<s>My message 8 months ago was prompted by the fact I was convinced that you could be usefull to the encyclopedia as well as my suggestion to leave your ban. But I am still convinced you should take a long break or you will be definitely banned after creating big troubles. ] (]) 16:52, 20 July 2013 (UTC)</s> | |||
:::Reading how NMMNG replies about the antisemitism issue and again attacks Nishidani, I think he is lost for the project and I suggest just to ban him from wikipedia. ] (]) 19:58, 20 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
'''Talk:Gaza genocide''': | |||
===Statement by Nishidani === | |||
* | |||
*'I did not accuse Nishidani of antisemitism. I accused him of Jew-baiting and trolling'. I'd like for the record to know what the distinction is between antisemitism and Jew-baiting. To me, <s>they are identical.</s> the latter is a subset of the former. (b)I have no problems with accepting that NMMGG thought he was acting in good faith. The problem is, he has refused for some years to believe I edit in good faith, since his standard patter is that I am intellectually and morally dishonest. Protesting one is acting in good faith means that good faith has been challenged. NMMGG in the past constantly challenged my ], while being convinced of his own. When NMMGG in his request persists in writing,'I apparently made a mistake regarding the willingness of the administration here to deal with '''this sort of thing''' (anyone remember the Jews and Money fiasco?)', he, in good faith, is persisting in saying arbitrators here turn a blind eye to my consistent offensiveness, which he defines as 'Jew-baiting' (antisemitism). He says he is still convinced he was punished for my fault, which AE is reluctant to see. | |||
* | |||
*'Perhaps No More Mr Nice Guy was seeing something that didn't exist?' (]). | |||
*There's no smoke without fire? I suppose I'd better make a statement on my 'attitude'. When not editing a lot of other articles, I work in the I/P area, which only thickskinned people not prone to shell-shock and ready to shovel tedious shit half the time should attempt to do. I see my function there as ensuring what I found was lacking several years ago, an adequate care that both sides of a conflicted narrative are duly represented. I see things, yes, from a Palestinian perspective, one informed however by a deep reading of nationalism, antisemitism, and the murderous rhetoric and hysteria of the first half of the 20th century. That means that whatever I read of one particular people's plight and victimization and smearing in the past makes me look at any contemporary ethnic plight with the same sympathetic focus. I edit on Australian aborigines, the ], the Tibetans, and other groups with exactly the same principles. No one in those areas, if you check the record, calls me a sinophobe, or a white-baiter. I strive to apply exactly the same intellectual, and if you like, or even if you dislike, ethical criteria in reading that conflict's reportage and literature. I don't accept double standards, here, or in life, though no one manages coherence in either with 100% consistency. This works out as being identified as either a rabid anti-Zionist, or an antisemite, because, in my perhaps mistaken conviction the Palestinian side is poorly reported except in academic sources, I do tithe my daily work to see that what happens on that side is mentioned on wikipedia, and my sources are the mainstream Israeli press or reliably published academic literature. Numerous editors, from ], ], ], ], ] to several others, and a great many socks, have found my presence intolerable and, some of them argued, antisemitic. So, perhaps they have a point, perhaps they see something I can't in my own attitude. My reply is, they all fail, NMMGG included, though he is a different kettle of fish, to look with the detachment they are so insistant in asking I adopt. | |||
*Finally, I agree with Zero, with a caution. In this place, AE/AI/and using one's revert rights to help other editors, is not a healthy way to build an encyclopedia. One's bona fides here are not evinced in monitoring other editors primarily, but sitting down, over books, and culling information to craft articles, with informed neutrality. I'd like to see less hunting for what traces of my and other's bad faith he thinks he will find, and more evidence of actually working to expand articles significantly.] (]) 15:10, 20 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
'''Talk:Nuseirat rescue and massacre''': | |||
*I'm only intruding here because the argument that I have it in for 'Jewish people' comes up fairly constantly in my regard, even recently by based on a total distortion of what I edit (i.e. my major source there happens to be ], the most brilliant, illumined and illuminating scholar in his field). ] (]) 15:10, 20 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
::NMMGG. This is no place to rerun the complaint you made. But you keep persisting in repeating those diffs, which, I suggest, you drastically misread, and persist in misreading. | |||
::'I think someone can troll and bait Jews without necessarily being antisemitic.' | |||
::No.Absolutely not. Saying that is tantamount to Humpty-Dumpty usage (''When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'') Neither in German, from which English borrowed the term (''Judenhetze''), nor in English can you, in good faith, assert that. It's absolutely counterintuitive. 'Jew-baiting' is 'active harrying or persecution of Jews.' (] 2nd ed. 1989 vol.VIII, p'.229 col.2), which is, thus, the active mode of antisemitism. (T.S.Eliot was antisemitic in his early thought and poems, but generally (not always) polite in Jewish company). Though coined in 1883 (Geoffrey Hughes, Penguin Books, 1998 p.221) came into popular use in English journalism roughly with Hitler's rise to power. | |||
::The diff you now bring back is quite simple.] cited a remark I made at the earlier ] which he thought pertinent to a section in the Jerusalem article dedicated to ‘Language issues, naming conventions’. Out of the blue, you shot back, with a crack about myself, (trolling?), namely:'All you have is making the word "Judea" verboten in any modern context,' and '. I'm sure you'll get Nishidani's full support' related to 'a somewhat different but not unrelated nature'. That's highly elusive innuendo. 'Verboten/Judea (homeland of the Jews)/Nishidani'. Just connect the dots. It happens to be false, since I approved 'Judean hills' as appropriate to the location of both Hebron (2007) and Jerusalem (2013) in the West Bank, and you certainly know that. '''Verboten''' alludes to Nazi practices. Well, I didn't run to mummy and complain to AE about malicious, ''gratuitous off-topic'', insinuations, or your later crack that I was a 'Jew-baiter'. When you insult or throw such innuendoes my way, I have replied on the talk page, and brushed it off with a rejoinder. And so, when you trolled there with an inflammatory comment, , reminding you it was Christmas, (26 December) and replying sharply to your "verboten" jab with a reminder of what, precisely at that moment in time, happened to be '''forbidden''' in Nazareth by citing an article that appeared just two days earlier. (], at ] 24 December 2012) | |||
::You then leapt on that and raised further complaints, blaming me for citing what the rabbi said. That is you were trolling, and, from a neutral perspective, proved quite successful because I responded when I could have just ignored you. As Sandstein wrote in his original judgement, neither of us should make such exchanges. My excuse is, I don’t watch other editors, and nag their bona fides most of the time. I research and write articles. So, whatever, let's drop it. I originally said rather than a suspension you just needed to be warned not to pester me with insinuations and work articles. I still believe that, but if a compromise is needed, Zero's judgement strikes me as decent, and fair. ] (]) 22:54, 20 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
***NMMGG. Your original complaint was that a single arb, Sandstein, had made a hasty decision: | |||
:::<blockquote>a good faith report I made at AE about something that has been bothering me and other Jewish editors for years, was dismissed out of hand by '''a single administrator''' over the weekend following the 4th of July.</blockquote> | |||
:::Now that several have reviewed the record, you complain that there is something odd that '''no less than six''' of them have commented. | |||
:::<blockquote>I'm still trying to get over the fact that no less than 6 of you found the time to look into this pretty unimportant appeal,</blockquote> | |||
:::One can't have it both ways, and protest insufficient and excessive attention simultaneously. I would add that several have backed sanctions against me in the past, and I take that fact alone as evidence that they deal with me and yourself on the strength of their independent readings of the evidence, on each specific occasion. If anything, wider admin input is probably an index of collegial care to ensure that an appellant has not been done an injustice (I sincerely hope, as I said, that the sanction, if passed, significantly shortens the 'indefinite' ban to a matter of a month or so. I think adversarial pertinacity in checking edits against source, something you do well, a positive value, so long as the point is limited to to article improvement and contruction). ] (]) 11:50, 23 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
::::I wasn't protesting excessive attention to this appeal. The attention this appeal is getting is normal. Once again you (deliberately?) read something I quite clearly didn't mean into what I wrote. And since you bring up the history of the admins posting here, I'll point out that John Carter was asking you a favor on your talk page less than an hour before he came here and commented. ] (]) 11:57, 23 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
:::::Look, don't keep insinuating. JC knows that for the last month, in his dispute with ] over the ] I came out in strong defence of the latter's work, against John's scepticism, and have not wavered on that, as you can see on the FAR page and my talk page. And I think the last time I was hauled to court, Carter's judgement suggested I was at least partially at fault. If anything discomforts or annoys me in wikipedia it is trying to see around corners, or under the rug, without looking, and reflex support or challenges along partisan lines. I've said it before, the cliché happens to be true:''amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas''. ] (]) 12:17, 23 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
* | |||
===Statement by ZScarpia=== | |||
With regard to a change in behaviour, I'd appreciate a reduction in the constant sarcasm and general belligerence. An attempt to moderate exagerrations and misrepresentations made would be nice too. <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%"> ← ] </span> 21:15, 21 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
'''Talk:Al-Sardi school attack''': | |||
===Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by No More Mr Nice Guy === | |||
====Comment by uninvolved A Quest for Knowledge==== | |||
I recall the RfE filed by No More Mr Nice Guy. At the time, I did not post a comment because the evidence presented was too subtle to make an accurate assessment of the RfE. Perhaps No More Mr Nice Guy was seeing something that didn't exist? Honestly, I don't know. But I do know that sometimes there are conduct issues that are genuinely legitimate but are difficult to discern by someone without lengthy experience with the dispute. And so No More Mr Nice Guy was banned from WP:ARBPIA-related AE discussions. But perhaps AE saw something that didn't exist? Again, I honestly don't know. But I do know that ] is a fundamental principle on Misplaced Pages and it should not be discounted without good evidence. Unless someone can provide good evidence why No More Mr Nice Guy's good faith should be doubted, I recommend lifting the restriction. ] (]) 23:04, 19 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
:{{replyto|Bbb23}} While I don't agree that a ban should have been made in the first place, a three month ban seems more reasonable to me. ] (]) 21:30, 20 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
* | |||
====Comment by uninvolved Yogesh Khandke==== | |||
*My opinion is that the Nice Guy had good reason to bring the appeal to wp:ae, esp when Purim was called a celebration of genocide, <strike>but since he isn't contesting the ban itself, I opine he should come back after more edits under his belt. This appeal is too early, not in terms of time but in terms of activity, I dont think sitting out a ban is a good idea. </strike> ] (]) 05:22, 22 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
*I don't agree that conclusive evidence was present for ] to state that "including, in this case, unfounded allegations or insinuations of antisemitism" were made. His remarks above are severe, I request him to AGF. ] (]) 05:30, 22 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
:*I am contesting the ban itself. Also, how would my activities in other areas be relevant here? This ban is about AE and is supposed to be preventative, not punitive. More edits elsewhere should have nothing to do with it. ] (]) 05:41, 22 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
*Nice guy I think wp:ae protocol needs users to edit in their own sections, please take your argument there. Also attacking Sandstein personally for having you banned is not going to help you. Also please use as few and as formal - neutral words as possible. I think you had reason to be hurt by the comments, not frivolous as Sandstein suggests, but I'm just one no-admin opinion. In the mean time doing a lot of work on the project would demonstrate that you aren't a SPA, it would show that your contributions are valuable etc and imo help you here. Having said all that unless I am wrong, you are banned from wp:ae, which is a infinitesimally small part of Misplaced Pages, why should that stop you from editing other areas? ] (]) | |||
'''Talk:Eden Golan''': | |||
===Result of the appeal by No More Mr Nice Guy=== | |||
* | |||
'''Other sanctions''': | |||
* March 2024: for ], ], etc | |||
* June 2024: to abide by 1RR | |||
* October 2024: for a week | |||
====Statement by (username)==== | |||
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. --> | |||
===Result concerning KronosAlight=== | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | :''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | ||
* Much of the "diffs of edits that violate this sanction" fail to explain "how these edits violate" the sanction - to me, much of these diffs look like a content dispute. However, the "additional comments" section DOES have a diff that is concerning and violates the CT by casting an aspersion that is not backed up by a diff - the "antisemitic editors" diff. Has KA been previously warned for casting aspersions? If they have, I'm inclined to issue a topic ban, but many other editors get a warning for this if they lack a previous warning. The diffs brought up by Zero (not all of which I necessarily see as aspersions, but the "Jew-hatred" one is definitely over the line - but it's from September so a bit late to sanction for just that) - did anyone point out that aspersions/incivility in this topic area is sanctionable? I see the warnings for 1RR and consensus required... ] (]) 13:30, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
** {{ping|KronosAlight}} - can you address the fact that saying "correcting factual errors introduced by previous antisemitic editors" and "Is there no limits you will not cross in order to seek to justify your Jew-hatred"? Neither of these are statements that should ever be made - and the fact that you seem to not to understand this is making me lean towards a topic ban. ] (]) 14:45, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*KronosAlight, can you please provide quotes from the references you cited for - for instance - "for his terrorist activities" in , showing that the sources explicitly supported the content you added? Calling a person or an organization is perfectly acceptable if you support that with reliable sources; if it is original research, or source misrepresentation, it isn't acceptable. I cannot access some of the sources in question. You may provide quotes inside a collapsed section if you wish to save space. ] (]) 19:28, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:I missed Zero's comments earlier. A lot of those comments, while concerning, are generic, not directed at a specific editor. , however, is beyond the pale. I would need some convincing that this user is able to edit this area constructively. ] (]) 20:56, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*::@], can you please respond to this? I too am concerned...the quote you're objecting to wasn't from DrSmarty. It was a ''direct quote'', scare quotes and all, from the US Holocaust Memorial Museum. You seem to have reacted to it as if it were DrSmarty. ] (]) 16:06, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I don't like to sanction ''in absentia'', and I'm not yet suggesting we do so, but I want to note that not choosing not to respond here, or going inactive to avoid responding, will not improve the outcome as far as I am concerned. ] (]) 17:20, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:They're a pretty sporadic editor...many edits over a period of a few days, then nothing for two weeks. Maybe we pin this until they edit again? ] (]) 17:26, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*::I agree with Valereee that this editors contribution history shows a pattern of editing for a day or two at a time followed by several weeks of inactivity. So I don't think it's fair to say they went inactive here but also holding this open for multiple weeks waiting for a response places some burden on the other other interested editors. ] (]) 17:33, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. --> | |||
*<!-- | |||
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==Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Nicoljaus== | |||
<!-- Please notify the appellant in the event of a successful appeal, in addition to logging it on the case page. ] informs users that "If you appeal this sanction, you remain bound by it until you are notified by an uninvolved administrator that the appeal has been successful."--> | |||
<small>''Procedural notes: Per the ], a "clear and substantial consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.''</small> | |||
<!-- Use {{discussion top}} / {{discussion bottom}} to mark this request as closed.--> | |||
*I think that time-limiting the sanction would be more proportionate, as this would serve a more appropriate educational and preventative purpose for No More Mr Nice Guy. Bans are not generally intended as punitive. ] (]) 13:21, 20 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
*I'm a bit troubled by some of NMMNG's contentious responses in this appeal (e.g., attempting to distinguish Jew-baiting from antisemitism). That said, I think an indefinite ban is more than is necessary to prevent further disruption. I think one month is too short, though. I suggest reducing the ban to three months.--] (]) 16:56, 20 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
*Disagree with shortening the ban to 1 month. The purpose of this ban is clear. The reasoning for it is sound. The length of time is at the imposing sysop's discretion - it's not AE's job to tweak sanctions imposed under AC/DS (unless there is a major issue like there being no basis for the ban or poor reasoning or change in teh appellant's behaviour). If NMMNG wants the ban lifted all he has to do is show that the behaviour that led to it has stopped. I'd recommend declining this request without adjusting the ban length but I'd be open to a new appeal in 2-3 months time that shows a change in behaviour/attitude--] <sup>]</sup> 14:24, 21 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
*Have to agree with Cailil here. The length of time imposed is pretty much up to the discretion of the sysop who imposes it. Having said that, there is like he said reasonable cause to say that at some point in the future, maybe 2-3 months, maybe 6 months, whatever, after the editor has demonstrated a significant change in his behavior, the "indefinite" ban could be appealed then. ] (]) 19:15, 21 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
*In a thread not too far above this one, we see an indefinite ban of nearly the same nature being lifted with little fuss, after the topic-banned editor demonstrated by positive editing that it was no longer needed. "Indefinite" doesn't mean permanent, it just means not of a fixed duration. I'd be reluctant to change the timing of the ban without either reason to believe the original ban was grossly disproportionate or inappropriate, or evidence that the editor affected has now improved their editing habits to the point it is no longer needed. I do not see either of those cases here and would recommend against such a change. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 14:40, 22 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
*Sandstein didn't make an obvious error when he issued ]'s original ban from posting at AE. I'm not inclined to second-guess the terms of the ban or its duration. If Sandstein wants to shorten the ban, that would be fine. In any case NMMNG is free to make further appeals of his ban in the future. He is at present not topic banned from ARBPIA and showing that he can make neutral edits in that domain would work in his favor. ] (]) 15:07, 22 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
::@NMMNG: You were banned from AE for what appeared to be a lack of judgment: "''the request is disruptive in that it accuses an editor of serious and ethically tainting misconduct, namely antisemitism, on specious grounds.''" Your feelings about the ARBPIA topic were so partisan that you couldn't see when you were out of line yourself. A record of neutral edits in the ARBPIA area might allow others to feel more confident that you won't make messes in the future at AE. ] (]) 23:33, 22 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
:::NMMNG - this kind of comment at AE is precisely what got you banned. If you don't stop this you will incur further and escalating sanctions. Step back--] <sup>]</sup> 12:26, 23 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
<small>''To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections{{space}}but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see ]).''</small> | |||
*Unless there is substantial objection from uninvolved sysops I'll be closing this as declined within 24 hours--] <sup>]</sup> 12:26, 23 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
; Appealing user : {{userlinks|Nicoljaus}} – ] (]) 13:09, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
== DragonTiger23 == | |||
; Sanction being appealed : To enforce an ], and for edit warring, and , you have been ''']''' '''indefinitely''' from editing Misplaced Pages. | |||
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br>Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> | |||
; Administrator imposing the sanction : {{admin|ScottishFinnishRadish}} | |||
===Request concerning DragonTiger23=== | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : ] (]) 03:11, 23 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
; Notification of that administrator : I'm aware. ] (]) 13:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
===Statement by Nicoljaus=== | |||
The circumstances of my blocking were: | |||
*I was looking for a Misplaced Pages account for ] to add it to Wikidata. I couldn't find it, so I did a little research. The in the article indicated that she participated in some '''WikiWrites'''(?) project. I didn’t find such a project, but I found the '''WikiRights''' project: https://ar.wikipedia.org/ويكيبيديا:ويكي_رايتس. It was organized by a certain Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor. I read the ] article and didn't see any outside perspective, "controversy" or anything like that, just self-representation. I surfed the Internet and instantly found information that must be in the article to comply with the NPOV. I started adding {{diff2|1220241573}}, everything went well for two days. Then: | |||
*12:53, 23 April 2024 - Zero0000 made a complete cancellation of all additions {{diff2|1220380219}}</br> | |||
*13:14, 23 April 2024 - (20 minutes later!) Selfstudier wrote on my TP {{diff2|1220382377}}</br> | |||
*14:20 - 14:22, 23 April 2024 - With two edits ({{diff2|1220390536|first}}, {{diff2|1220390820|second}}) I partially took into account the comment of Zero0000 about "ethnic marking", but returned the last {{Diff||1220390820|1220380219}}.</br> | |||
*14:27, 23 April 2024 (7 minutes later!!) Selfstudier makes a second complete cancellation of all my edits, blaming POV editing {{diff2|1220391708}}</br> | |||
*14:45, 23 April 2024 - I’m returning the version where I partially took into account Zero0000’s comments (removed "ethnic marking"){{diff2|1220394447}}</br> | |||
*15:10, 23 April 2024 - Selfstudier accuses me of 1RR breach. In the dialogue, I explained that the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination. My first undo was part of a counter edit ]</br> | |||
*15:41, 23 April 2024 Selfstudier writes on Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement {{diff2|1220403117}}</br> | |||
*16:10, 23 April 2024 (30 minutes later!) ScottishFinnishRadish issues an indefinite block {{diff2|1220407252}}. No opportunity to write my “statement”, as well as an extremely bad faith interpretation of my remark as "an intent to game 1rr".</br> | |||
Given that the both Selfstudier and Zero0000 are currently being discussed in Arbcom (https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_5/Evidence), I humbly ask you to take a fresh look at my indefinite block and soften the restrictions in some way". ] (]) 19:32, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:{{yo|ScottishFinnishRadish}} - You {{diff2|1263932187||mean}}, I need to discuss my previous edit war blocks? Well, the last one was almost four years ago and that time I simply forgot that I was under 1RR (there was a big break in editing) and tried to get sources for a newly added map, and the opponent refused to do so {{diff2|983337359}}. As it turned out later, the true source was a book by a fringe author, which the RSN called "Usual nationalistic bullshit, no sign of reliability". Yes, it was a stupid forgetfulness on my part. ] (]) 16:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:{{yo|Aquillion}} {{tq| Even if you were correct that Selfstudier & Zero0000 were WP:TAGTEAMing (always a tricky accusation, because it's hard to separate that from just your edits being so obviously problematic that two people independently reverted them)}} -- That's why I wrote that my "so problematic edits" attracted attention only after two days, but two users appeared within 20 minutes. However, after months, a lot of data about the cooperation of these users appeared (and this is not my imagination): "While a single editor, Shane (a newbie), advocated for its inclusion, a trio of veterans including Zero0000, Nishidani and Selfstudier fought back. After Selfstudier accused Shane of being a troll for arguing for the photo’s inclusion, Zero0000, days later, “objected” to its inclusion, citing issues of provenance. Nishidani stepped in to back up Zero0000, prompting a response by Shane. The following day, Zero0000 pushed back against Shane, who responded. The day after, Nishidani returned with his own pushback. The tag-team effort proved too much for Shane, who simply gave up, and the effort succeeded: the photo remains absent" . I'll add that after Selfstudier accused Shane of trolling, Zero0000 appeared on Shane's page and said: "Kindly keep your insults to yourself I won't hesitate to propose you for blocking if you keep it up" {{diff2|1017316378}}. According to the table at the link , these two users cooperated like this 720 times. Probably hundreds of people were embittered, forced out of the project, or led to blocking like me.--] (]) 13:02, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:{{ping|ScottishFinnishRadish}} Hello, thank you very much for transferring my remarks, now I understand how it works. I would like to clarify the issue of meatpuppetry. You directly accused me of such intentions in justifying the block, and now this accusation has been repeated {{diff2|1264013557}}. Let's figure out whether that Selfstudier and Zero0000 are working too closely was so absurd? Was it really and remains so absurd that it could not be perceived as anything other than my self-exposure? I don't think so.</br> | |||
As for the "edit war" - I understand that edit wars are evil. In the spirit of cooperation, I tried to meet my opponents halfway, as in this case, taking into account their claim, which I could understand, in the counter edit. If such an action is also considered an edit war and a violation of the 1RR/3RR rule - I will of course avoid it in the future.--] (]) 16:00, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
@Valereee: Hello, I understand your point that edit wars can be disruptive, particularly in a CTOP context. However, I believe it is essential to recognize that not all reverts carry the same implications. While it is true that a revert is a revert, the context and intent behind the action should also be taken into account. In this instance, I made efforts to address the concerns of the other party involved, which reflects a willingness to engage in dialogue rather than simply reverting. | |||
Furthermore, I acknowledge your reference to the 1RR/3RR rule and my history of blocks for edit-warring. However, given the amount of time that has passed, I believe I have gained valuable insights and learned a great deal. Moreover, given this topic, I think I actually learned something unlike the other side, whose history of blocks for edit-warring remains clean.--Nicoljaus (talk) 4:24 am, Today (UTC−5) | |||
{{re|Valereee}} In response to {{diff2|1264999031||this}}, I can say that I already know very well how carelessly admins impose blocks. If any further statements are needed from me, just ping me. With best regards.--] (]) 09:51, 25 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
===Statement by ScottishFinnishRadish=== | |||
Absent from the appeal is discussion of the five prior edit warring blocks and any indication that they will not resume edit warring. ] (]) 13:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:I said {{tq|They have a long history of edit warring, so I'd like to see that addressed rather than blaming others}} above, twelve days ago. ] (]) 16:30, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:{{u|Nicoljaus}}, you should be focusing on convincing people that you won't edit war in the future rather than more ]. ] (]) 13:11, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
===Statement by (involved editor 1)=== | |||
===Statement by (involved editor 2)=== | |||
===Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Nicoljaus === | |||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. <br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | |||
====Statement by Simonm223==== | |||
looks like a bright-line ] violation via ] and ] - and removing BLP violations are generally somewhere where there is some latitude on ] which makes the actions of Zero0000 and Selfstudier more justified, not less. ] (]) 13:50, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Aquillion==== | |||
{{tq|Selfstudier accuses me of 1RR breach. In the dialogue, I explained that the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination. My first undo was part of a counter edit}} - I feel like this is obvious enough that I probably don't have to point it out, but "counter edit" is not a ] / ] exception. Even if you were correct that Selfstudier & Zero0000 were ]ing (always a tricky accusation, because it's hard to separate that from just your edits being so obviously problematic that two people independently reverted them), it ''still'' would not justify your revert. The fact that they're parties to an ArbCom case (which hasn't even yet found any fault with them!) doesn't change any of this. You should probably read ]. --] (]) 14:15, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Sean.hoyland==== | |||
"the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination"...yet another conspiracy-minded evidence-free accusation against editors in the PIA topic area, the third one at AE in just a few days. ] (]) 14:59, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by (uninvolved editor 1)==== | |||
===Result of the appeal by Nicoljaus=== | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
*I do not see any indication that Nicoljaus actually realizes the problem. The edit warring blocks were indeed some time ago, but one might think they would remember it after being blocked for it repeatedly, not to mention that being issued a CTOP notice might call a CTOP restriction to mind. And the remark in question sure looks to me like a threat to game 1RR via ], too. Given all that, I would decline this appeal. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 23:10, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
* I see nothing in this appeal that makes me think they've taken on board the changes that they'd need to do to be a productive editor. It reads to me like "my block was bad, here's why", and that's not working as a reason for me to support unblocking. ] (]) 23:21, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
* Nicoljaus, what we need to see is you demonstrating you understand edit-warring at a CTOP, which is what you were blocked for, and convincing us you won't do it again. Arguing the block should be lifted because other editors did something you thought looked suspicious isn't going to convince us. <small>Just FWIW, Nicoljaus, the source doesn't actually say {{xt|these two users cooperated like this 720 times}}. It says they edited the same articles 720 times, and that's not unusual. Most editors see the same other editors over and over again in articles about their primary interest. And edit by editor 1>2 days>revert by editor 2>revert by editor 1>20 minutes>revert by editor 3 is also not at all unusual anywhere on the encyclopedia and isn't evidence of tag-teaming. People read their watch lists. Any editor with that article on their watchlist, which is nearly fifty editors, might have investigated the large revert of an edit by an experienced editor at a contentious topic.</small> ] (]) 15:18, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:@], it's not that edit wars are evil. It's that they're disruptive, and particularly in a CTOP we really really don't need additional disruption and drama. A revert is a revert, even if you {{xt|tried to meet my opponents halfway, as in this case, taking into account their claim, which I could understand, in the counter edit}}. Re: {{xt|If such an action is also considered an edit war and a violation of the 1RR/3RR rule}}: a revert is a revert and is covered in the policy around reversions. And you have a history of blocks for edit-warring, including at other CTOPs. | |||
*:It's been seven months since the block. I'm trying to come around to a way to at least allow this editor a ''chance'' to show us they've taken this stuff on board...maybe a 0RR at all CTOPs? ] (]) 17:44, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*::@], re {{xt|I believe it is essential to recognize that not all reverts carry the same implications. While it is true that a revert is a revert, the context and intent behind the action should also be taken into account. In this instance, I made efforts to address the concerns of the other party involved, which reflects a willingness to engage in dialogue rather than simply reverting}}. Some editors at talk pages will take your apparent intentions into account. Some will just take you to ANEW. Some admins at ANEW will take your apparent intentions into account. Some will just reblock you. | |||
*::''No one anywhere is promising that your intentions will be taken into account'' -- or even that they'll try to figure out what your intentions are -- and therefore it's ''completely your responsibility'' to read the situation you're in correctly. If you read it wrong, you're likely to be blocked again, and honestly another block for edit-warring at a CTOP is likely to be another indef, and it would absolutely not surprise me for the blocking admin to require 12 months to appeal. ] (]) 15:25, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:::No need to reply, but I'll tell you plainly I've been trying to give you opportunities to convince other admins here, and you keep wanting to dig the hole deeper. I'd support an unblock with an editing restriction of 0RR at any article with a CTOPs designation on the talk page. ] (]) 13:13, 25 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
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==PerspicazHistorian== | |||
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===Request concerning PerspicazHistorian=== | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|NXcrypto}} 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|PerspicazHistorian}}<p>{{ds/log|PerspicazHistorian}}</p> | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|DragonTiger23}} | |||
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | <!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | ||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] | ;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] | ||
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | <!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | ||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | ; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | ||
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. --> | <!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.--> | ||
# - removed "discrimination" sidebar from the page of ] (fascist ideology) even though the sidebar was inserted inside a section, not even the lead. | |||
'''Topic ban violations:''' | |||
# |
# - tag bombed the highly vetted ] article without any discussion or reason | ||
# |
# - attributing castes to people withhout any sources | ||
# |
# - edit warring to impose the above edits after getting | ||
# - just like above, but this time he also added unreliable sources | |||
...many more in one day. Please check contributions. | |||
# - still edit warring and using edit summaries instead of talk page for conversation | |||
# - filed an outrageous report on WP:ANI without notifying any editors. This report was closed by Bbb23 as "{{tq|This is nothing but a malplaced, frivolous personal attack by the OP.}}" | |||
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : | |||
'''Disruptive editing:''' | |||
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.--> | |||
*Already 2 blocks in last 4 months for edit warring. | |||
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]): | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | |||
<!-- Add any further comment here --> | |||
I do not see any positive signs that this editor will ever improve. So far he has only regressed. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
# Quotes from same diff: | |||
*"Later an unrelated Armenian out of sheer hate, falsely accused me,..." | |||
*"I do not care for their blind childish hate." | |||
*He refers to Misplaced Pages users as "Greek users" and "Armenians" Typical ] terminology based of ethnic profiling and segregation | |||
:While going through this report, PerspicazHistorian has made another highly problematic edit by edit warring and misrepresenting the sources to label the organisation as "terrorist". This primary source only provides a list of organisations termed by the Indian government as "terrorist" contrary to ]. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 03:12, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
# Quotes from same diff: | |||
*"The person who filed that accusation ] at the admins is himself obsessed of atrocity mongering against the Turkish state and people,..." | |||
*"Alexikoua is basically a hardcore denier of massacres committed against Turks" | |||
*Again refers to various Misplaced Pages users as "Turkish users" Once again, ] terminology | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
#: Sent {{User|Alexikoua}} to WP:ANI without a warning because he removed the content he added in violation. As admins here may know already, Alexikoua acted in ] and in accordance of ]. I also found the nomination containing harsh language towards Alexikoua claiming that he's "behaving like he has a ]" and accusing him of edits that happened a month or so ago. | |||
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; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) : | |||
<!-- Many arbitration remedies require a prior warning before sanctions may be imposed. Link to the warning here. --> | |||
#Warned on by {{user|Kansas Bear}} | |||
#Warned on by {{user|Alexikoua}} | |||
===Discussion concerning PerspicazHistorian === | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | |||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | |||
The user has been and a notice of his topic ban was given by admin {{User|EdJohnston}} on his talk page with specific instructions stating, Even after he was warned violating the topic ban, he continued and in one edit, . He has clearly violated his ban but I might also want to add that he caused a lot of disruption in a matter of hours as mentioned above. Much of the disruptive edits are almost identical to the same ones that got him his topic ban in the first place. Therefore, '''I request that DragonTiger23 be blocked and his time span of his topic ban increase from 3 months to whatever the admins deem necessary.''' | |||
====Statement by PerspicazHistorian ==== | |||
:@Kansas Bear. This is not about whether his contributions are useful or disruptive, this is about his conduct and violations. ] (]) 08:01, 23 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
By far I am also concerned how my edits were forcefully reverted without a proper reason despite providing enough references. Please check how I am getting attacked by them on ] Page. | |||
I didn't know about the three-revert-rule before ] told me about this: ]. | |||
Please grant me one more chance, I will make sure not to edit war.<br> | |||
In the below statement by LukeEmily, As a reply I just want to say that I was just making obvious edit on ] by adding a list of notable people with proper references. And according to ] it is clearly said: "Edits from a slanted point of view, general insertion or removal of material, or other good-faith changes are not considered vandalism." It was a good faith edit but others reverted it. I accept my mistake of not raising it on talk page as a part of ].<br> | |||
As a clarification to my edit on ], it can be clearly seen that I provided enough reference to prove its a terrorist organisation as seen in this . I don't know why is there a discussion to this obvious edit? Admins please correct me if I am wrong. | |||
:@], Yes I read about 1RR and 0RR revert rules in ]. I now understand the importance of raising the topic on talk page whenever a consensus is needed. Thank You ! ] (]) 07:16, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
::Yes, I will commit to that. ] (]) 13:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC) <small>Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 13:19, 20 December 2024 (UTC) </small> | |||
:At that time I was new to how AFD discussions worked. Later on when ] was marked for deletion, I respected the consensus by not interfering in it. The article was later deleted. ] (]) 11:54, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
::Hi @] , I just checked your user page. You have 16 years (I am 19) of experience on wiki, you must be right about me. I agree that my start on Misplaced Pages has been horrible, but I am learning a lot from you all. I promise that I will do better, get more neutral here and contribute to the platform to my best. Please don't block me. | |||
::''<small>P.S.- I don't know If I will be blocked or what , according to this enforcement rules, I just want to personally wish good luck to you for your ongoing cancer treatments, You will surely win this battle of Life. Regards.</small>'' ] (]) 12:23, 21 December 2024 (UTC)<small>Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section.] (]) 15:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)</small> | |||
====Statement by LukeEmily==== | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
PerspicazHistorian also violated ] by engaging in an edit war with {{u|Ratnahastin}} who reverted his edits and restored an article to a stable version by admin. Also, I want to assume good faith but it is surprising that PerspicazHistorian claims that he did not know the three revert rule given that he has more than 800 edits.] (]) | |||
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====Statement by Doug Weller==== | |||
I'm involved so just commenting. I don't think this editor is competent. I had to give them a community sanction caste warning as they were making a mess of castes. See this earlier version of their talk page.]https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:PerspicazHistorian&oldid=1262289249] and ]'s comment that "It was very unwise of you to keep moving ] to article space when it has not passed review. As a direct result of your actions, a deletion discussion is taking place, and when this is complete and the article is deleted, you will be prevented from recreating it. ] (]) 14:44, 4 December 2024 (UTC)" There have also been copyright issues. I strongly support a topic ban. ] ] 11:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::I won't be involved in the decision. No more treatments for me, just coast until... ] ] 12:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
===Result concerning PerspicazHistorian === | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
{{u|PerspicazHistorian}}, can you explain your understanding of ] and the ] rule? I'd like you to read thoroughly enough to also explain wny someone may be edit warring ''even if they aren't breaking 3RR''. ] (]) 21:58, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. --> | |||
:@], that explanation of edit warring is a bit wanting. An edit war is when two or more editors revert content additions/removals repeatedly. Even a second reversion by the same editor can be considered edit warring. Best practice -- and what I highly recommend, especially for any inexperienced editor -- is ''the first time'' someone reverts an edit of yours, go to the talk page, open a section, ping the editor who reverted you, and discuss. Do you think you can commit to that? | |||
:<small>Re: your question on why your "obvious edit" was reverted: we don't deal with content issues here, only with behavior issues, but from a very quick look, the source is 50 years old, and using a list headed "TERRORIST ORGANISATIONS LISTED IN THE FIRST SCHEDULE OF THE UNLAWFUL ACTIVITIES (PREVENTION) ACT, 1967" that includes a certain organization as a source that the organization should be described as a terrorist organization is ]; in their ] NXcrypto provided an edit summary of "Not a reliable source for such a contentious label. See WP:LABEL." Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here.</small> ] (]) 11:28, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
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==Walter Tau== | |||
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> | |||
===Request concerning Walter Tau=== | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Bobby Cohn}} 20:51, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Walter Tau}}<p>{{ds/log|Walter Tau}}</p> | |||
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] | |||
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | |||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | |||
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# Creation (and subsequent editing and AfC submission) of ]. See it's page history, there's no need to supply the entirety of the diffs here. | |||
#* For context on how this subject falls under the purview, see the context given by the news article as shared on the talk page: Russia using adoption of Ukranian children during the Russo-Ukranian war.<ref>{{cite news |last1=Bruce |first1=Camdyn |title=Ukrainian official rips Russia for 'kidnapping' more than 13,000 children |url=https://thehill.com/policy/international/3775681-ukrainian-official-rips-russia-for-kidnapping-more-than-13000-children/ |work=The Hill |date=14 December 2022}}</ref> Then note how this state program directly discusses adoption support, which was adapted by Putin following the start of the war. A citation given in the draft article.<ref>{{cite news |title=Путин подписал закон, уточняющий условия выплаты материнского капитала |url=https://www.interfax.ru/russia/937864 |work=interfax.ru|trans-title=Putin signs law clarifying conditions for payment of maternity capital}}</ref> The version specifically notes the changes "At the same time, residents of the '''''new regions''''' will receive maternity capital '''''regardless of the basis and timing of their acquisition of Russian citizenship'''''" (emphasis mine). | |||
#:This draft, as it is written, is extremely promotional in areas and could basically be hosted on a state-sponsored website. Given the context, I believe this falls under the topic ban. | |||
{{reflist-talk}} | |||
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : | |||
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# Notice given by {{admin|Rosguill}} that they were now subject to an arbitration enforcement sanction | |||
# Blocked by {{admin|Swatjester}} for violating the sanction based on the edits to a project page. | |||
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]): | |||
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*Has been made aware, see the diffs in the above section. | |||
*Alerted about contentious topics as it applies to this specific draft, on by {{admin|Asilvering}}, given a warning about this specific draft and how it falls under the above purview. | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | |||
<!-- Add any further comment here --> | |||
It has been repeatedly pointed out to Walter Tau that they are skirting the line of the their topic ban by specifically not mentioning the "elephant in the room", see the diff by Asilvering above. They have also repeatedly chosen to ignore advice that they stop editing in the subject area and have repeatedly claimed to fail to see how their editing is problematic. As such, I have opened this discussion here so as to get an answer for Walter Tau on their editing, see They claim to continuously be unaware of the ban, see also their talk page discussions. | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
Notified . | |||
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | <!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | ||
===Discussion concerning |
===Discussion concerning Walter Tau=== | ||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. |
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | ||
====Statement by DragonTiger23==== | |||
====Statement by |
====Statement by Walter Tau==== | ||
I feel, that the decision by ] regarding my draft https://en.wikipedia.org/Draft:Maternity_capital, is "arbitrary and capriciuos" to use US legal terms : ], for the following reasons: | |||
I would ask that DragonTiger not be indefinitely topic banned on the condition that he refrains from ]. As User:<u>Someone not using his real name</u> stated, "''Looking at the AE report that got DragonTiger23 sanctioned, it seems he often makes useful, valid content contributions...''". He is not the only editor that believes DragonTiger makes useful, valid content contributions, I believe this as well, even though he and I have clashed on a number of occasions. But, Misplaced Pages is not about cooperating with people who agree with us, its about working together to build an encyclopedia with people who <u>don't</u> agree with us.<br> | |||
Also, I personally do not consider the link listed above as a "warning" issued to DragonTiger, more like a reminder of his topic ban. --] (]) 07:34, 23 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
1) nowhere my draft mentions the words "Ukraine" or "Ukrainian". | |||
2) this draft ] is a translation of the original Russian wiki- article : https://ru.wikipedia.org/%D0%9C%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BB . I have heard the argument, that different languages in Misplaced Pages use different standards for articles' notability etc. Can someone please provide a web-link to Misplaced Pages rules, that actually confirms, that different standards for different languages is the currently accepted policy. I have been unable to find such statement. | |||
====Statement by (username)==== | |||
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3) In fact, my draft focuses mostly on the policies before 24 February 2022, i.e. before full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine. | |||
===Result concerning DragonTiger23=== | |||
<!-- Use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.--> | |||
<small>''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''</small> | |||
4) Please correct me, if I am wrong, by it seems that ]'s only argument of my ban violation is the following statement in my draft of ]. | |||
A clear topic ban violation and continued aggressive battleground-like conduct. I recommend extending the topic ban's duration to indefinite and imposing a one-week enforcement block. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 07:14, 23 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
"Residents of new regions are paid maternity capital regardless of the time and basis for obtaining Russian citizenship." In my defense: I did not write that statement- it is a Google translation from the Russian wiki, actually a small part of the translated text. And with all honesty, when I was reading the translated text, it did not cross my mind, that someone may interpret so broadly. Also, this sentence-in-question does not really add much to the main subject to the article, and I do not object to its deletion. | |||
5) Considering, that | |||
I agree on the clear violation and extension of the topic ban, and also note that this editor has been blocked recently for a week already for edit warring and other misconduct. I would agree to a week this time, with a reminder that any subsequent violations are likely to result in a significantly longer or indefinite block. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 08:14, 23 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
a) I did not write, but only translated the text-in-question; | |||
b) the relevance to the text-in-question to my topic ban is not apparent, particularly in the larger context of the whole article; | |||
c) I do not object deleting the text-in-question from the draft; | |||
may I suggest changing the draft to fix this controversy? | |||
6) If there are other controversial sections/sentences in my translated draft, it may be better if someone re-writes them. Most wiki-readers, can agree with a statement, that this draft ] may not reach an "Article of the Day" status, but it has a value as a stand-alone article as well as a source of references (more-to-be-added). | |||
] (]) 13:45, 25 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by TylerBurden==== | |||
Walter Tau doesn't seem to think they have done anything wrong on Misplaced Pages, so it's honestly not surprising to see them continuing to push the limit despite the sanctions they have received. At some point you have to wonder if there is a foundational ] or trolling (or a combination of both) issue. Either way, yes they are clearly violating their topic ban by writing about the Russian kidnapping of Ukrainian children from the war, because that is what this whole ″adoption″ thing is. --] (]) 17:22, 25 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by (username)==== | |||
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. --> | |||
===Result concerning Walter Tau=== | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. --> | |||
*Sidestepping for now the question of whether simply not mentioning anything conflict-related would have been enough to avoid a TBAN violation, the references to "new regions" make this a violation much more straightforwardly. Justice is blind but not stupid. Walter, I think we're going to need to see recognition from you that this was a TBAN violation, if we're going to find a good path forward here. I'd also like to know who you are referring to when you reference other editors working on the draft? ] has made some gnomish edits but you appear to be the only substantive editor. And why are you implying, on Bobby's talk, that y'all have been corresponding by email, when he denies that? <span style="font-family:courier"> -- ]</span><sup class="nowrap">[]]</sup> <small>(])</small> 22:29, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I'll be direct: I think Walter knows what he is doing and has no intention of abiding by his TBAN, , and I don't think we should be wasting further time here when we're almost certainly going to be right back here again within a few weeks. ]] <small><sup>Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat!</sup></small> 05:29, 25 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*Back off a one week block for violating the topic ban, and already violating it again? (The "new regions" material is unquestionably a violation.) It seems that Walter Tau is either unwilling or unable to abide by the restriction, and does not, even after explanation, understand any of the issues here (or even understand something so simple as that different language Wikipedias are independent from one another and each have their own policies and practices). Given that, I don't see anything to be done here except to indef. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 17:45, 25 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
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For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard. Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions. To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}.
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M.Bitton
M.Bitton is warned against casting aspersions and reminded to abide by WP:CIVIL. Vanamonde93 (talk) 06:35, 19 December 2024 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning M.Bitton
I'll limit this to WP:CIVIL related issues for now, since they're easiest to evaluate with minimal context.
I'm not aware of CTOP sanctions. The block log seems to show four blocks, but they're not that recent and I'm not sure how relevant they are.
Another 15 diffs were (rightfully) removed by an admin for exceeding the diff limit as well as falling outside PIA scope; just mentioning for transparency. They might be relevant on a different forum but admittedly not here. — xDanielx /C\ 16:37, 10 December 2024 (UTC) @Theleekycauldron: I planned to file something after the "garbage" comments (about BobFromBrockley) on Talk:Al-Manar. I reconsidered after being surprised by M.Bitton's diplomatic compromise there. Admittedly M.Bitton's comments in the thread above prompted me to reconsider again, but that wasn't about the fact that I might receive a warning there (irrespective of M.Bitton's participation); it was just about me personally being on the receiving end of some personal attacks. I don't really follow why me being emotionally affected by the conduct would affect the legitimacy of the report. Most of the incivility was directed at other users, and letting this conduct continue wouldn't seem fair to them. — xDanielx /C\ 16:41, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
Discussion concerning M.BittonStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by M.BittonNot content with edit warring, assuming bad faith and casting aspersions (see #xDanielx), they now decided to go even lower and file a retaliatory report. M.Bitton (talk) 09:56, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by (username)Result concerning M.Bitton
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Ethiopian Epic
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Ethiopian Epic
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Tinynanorobots (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 11:23, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Ethiopian Epic (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Yasuke
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- November 14th created during the Yasuke case and went active when it ended. First 11 edits were to Government of Japan. In one case three edits were used to write one sentence.
- November 12 Manually reverted the lead back to how it was in September.
- November 16 Falsely Claimed cited material was OR. (G
- November 24 Falsely Claimed cited material was unsourced
- November 24 It took an ANI report to get him to use the article talk page. His defense was accusations and denial.
- November 23 He reverted to a version that went against consensus established on the talk page and contained a falsely sourced quote.
- November 25 Engages in sealioning
- November 29 Removes a well sourced line from Yasuke as well as reverted an edit that was the result of BRD. He has now started disputes with me on all three Yasuke related articles.
- November 30 starts disputing a new section of
- December 2 Brought again to ANI, he claims that I didn't get consensus for changes, even though I had discussed them on talk prior to making them.
- December 4 He keeps mentioning ONUS, and asking me to discuss it, in response to me discussing.
- December 9 Used a non-controversial revert to hide his edit warring.
- December 11 did the same thing on List of foreign-born samurai in Japan.
- December 11 He also repeatedly complains that he doesn't like the definition because it is vague and claims that his preferred version is "status quo"
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
- [
- Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on December 1 (see the system log linked to above).
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
I am not sure if this is actually a AE matter, but was told to go here by multiple admins. The biggest issue is the Editing against consensus on accompanied by bludgeoning. However, there are signs of bad faith editing on all three pages where I have interacted with EE. It could also be a CIR issue or it could be some sort of harassment. I don't know. I just know that EE first avoided providing clear reasons for reverting edits and has been trying to engage in Status Quo Stonewalling. He keeps citing Onus or Burden and asks me not to make a change until the discussion is over. Often, this doesn't make sense in context, because the change was in place. He has made false claims about sources and what they say. His editing on Yasuke is not so much a problem as the discussion which comes across as gaslighting.
- @User:Red-tailed hawk, I am not an expert on proxies or socks. All the IPs have only posted on the one article and have advocated an odd definition for samurai, that doesn't apply to the article. All except the first one have just reverted. It is possible that this is just laziness, or lack of confidence in writing skills etc. After all, the false citation was added by another user and was just kept. I found the latest one the most suspect, in part because of it first reverting to the incorrect definition, before restoring most of the text and second because of falsely citing policy. I am not sure if they are proxies, but I hoped that someone here would have the expertise to know. I don't think the proxy evidence is the most important. EE is either acting in bad faith or has CIR problems. The later is possible, because he thanked City of Silver during ANI, although City of Silver has been the harshest critic of EE's behaviour towards me.
- I think there should be some important context to the quote:
"those who serve in close attendance to the nobility"
. The quote can be found in several books, on Samurai it is sourced to an article published in Black Belt Magazine in the 80s by William Scott Wilson, where he describes the origin of the word samurai. He is describing the early phases of its meaning in that quote, before it became to have martial connotations. It also refers to the time before 900. The earliest foreign samurai on the list was in the late 1500s. It also doesn't apply to most of the persons on the list. Finally, it is not mentioned in Vaporis's book, which EE keeps adding as the source. He hasn't even made the effort to copy the citation from Samurai.
Not only did I have a dispute with Symphony Regalia about samurai being "retainers to lords", but also on Yasuke about "As a samurai" and on List of Foreign-born Samurai in Japan EE made the same reverts as SR. EE had with his first edit in all three articles continued a dispute that I had already had with SR.
- @User:Ethiopian Epic I actually don't have a problem with you discussing things. Your talk page posts aren't really discussion though. Your main argument on all three pages has been a shifting of the burden of proof. You don't really discuss content and continually ask me not to make changes without discussing first, and then make changes yourself. I understand that your position is that your preferred version is the status quo. However, my edits regarding the definition on List of Foreign-born samurai in Japan , were discussed and consensus was clearly gotten. Similarly, my edits on Yasuke were discussed, and even though I didn't use the exact same version as Gitz said, Gitz had suggested using warrior instead of bushi, so I used samurai, because I thought it would be less controversial.
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning Ethiopian Epic
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Ethiopian Epic
This is clear retaliatory filing because I recently didn't agree with Tinynanorobot's edits against RFC consensus, and because I made talk page sections on some recent edits.
@Eronymous That's not true and you are a very obvious alt account with only 26 edits. No one gave you a notification of this discussion and it's not on the Yasuke talk page. This suggests you are the sock puppet of someone here. Your post is also misleading and incorrect it wasn't an insertion. The line you are talking about in Samurai has been there for over 10 years and is normal. I know because I've read it before. Here is a version from 2017 that still has it. I don't understand why you are misrepresenting edits and using an alt account.
@Red-tailed hawk I think he is just fishing. That's why he removed his IP claims. Even his other diffs are just mislabeled regular behavior. It's amusing because Eronymous is the likely alt of Tinynanorobots or someone posting here. I think the way Tinynanorobots edits against clear consensus, skips discussion, and then files frivolous ANI/AE reports with misleading narrative like above is disruptive. Discussion is an easy solution and benefits everyone. I hope he will respect RFC consensus.
Statement by Relm
I am largely unfamiliar with the account in question, but I do frequently check Yasuke. I believe that EthiopianEpic has displayed a clear slant and battleground mindset in their editing in regards to the topic of Yasuke, but that their conduct on the Yasuke page itself so far has generally been in the ballpark of good faith edits. The revert on December 9th was justified, and their topic on November 29th is well within bounds (though I acknowledge that the background of their prior disputes on other pages with Tinynanorobots shows it may be edit warring) given that the two things being reverted was a change that seemed to skirt the prior RFC with agreement being given in a very non-direct way, and the other portion being an addition which had not been discussed on the talk page prior to its implementation (though previous discussions ered on the side of not including it). I am not accusing Tinynanorobots of any misconduct in any part of that either.
What I will note is that in addition to the sockpuppet IP allegations made by Tinynanorobots, I wanted to lodge that the posting style of EthiopianEpic, as well as their knowledge of much of the previous discussions on the page deep in the archive, led me to suspect that they were an alt of User:Symphony_Regalia. I never found anything conclusive. Relm (talk) 14:48, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Simonm223
These two editors have been tangling at WP:AN/I repeatedly. Last time they came there I said that this would likely continue until a third party intervened. And then the thread got archived with no action (see AN/I thread here) so I'm not surprised that the two of them are still tangling. There is evidence that both editors have engaged in a slow-motion edit war. Both have claimed the other is editing against consensus. Here I will say that it appears TinyNanoRobots is more correct than Ethiopian Epic. Furthermore, while neither editors' comportment has been stellar, as other editors have pointed out, it appears more that EE is following TNR about and giving them a hard time than the alternate. . In the linked AN/I case (above) you'll note EE attempted a boomerang on TNR and was not well-received for the effort.
Frankly my view is that both editors are not editing to the best standards of Misplaced Pages but there is definitely a more disruptive member of this duo and that is Ethiopian Epic. I think it would probably cut down on the noise considerably if they were encouraged to find somewhere to edit which was not a CTOP subject and if they were encouraged to leave TNR alone. Simonm223 (talk) 18:05, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Eronymous
Similar to Relm I check on the Yasuke page every so often, and it seems very likely given the evidence that User:Ethiopian Epic is an alt of User:Symphony_Regalia created to evade his recent ArbCom sanctions, having started editing the day prior to the Yasuke case closure. Of note to this is the last edit of Symphony_Regalia on Samurai was him attempting to insert the line "who served as retainers to lords (including daimyo)" - curiously enough, Ethiopian Epic's first edit on Samurai (and first large edit, having just prior made 11 minor ones in a short timeframe to reach autoconfirmed status) is him attempting to insert the same controversial line that was reverted before.
Symphony_Regalia has a history of utilising socks to edit Yasuke/Samurai related topics and is indefinitely blocked from the .jp wiki for extensive sockpuppetry (plus multiple suspected IPs) for this.
Prior to being sanctioned Symphony Regalia frequently got into exactly the same arguments concerning wording/source material with User:Tinynanorobots that Ethiopian Epic is now. One could assume based on their relationship that he is aggrieved that Tinynanorobots was not sanctioned by ArbCom during the case and is now continuously feuding with him to change that through edit warring and multiple administrator incidents/arbitration requests in the past few weeks. Eronymous (talk) 22:31, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Nil Einne
I was ?one of the editors who suggested Tinynanorobots consider ARE in the future. I did this mostly because after three threads on ANI with no result, I felt a change of venue might be more productive especially since the more structured nature of ARE, as well as a likely greater concern over low level of misconduct meant that some outcome was more likely. (For clarity, when I suggested this I did feel nothing would happen from the third ANI thread but in any case my advice being taken onboard would likely mean the third thread had no result.) I did try to make clear that I wasn't saying there was definitely a problem requiring sanction and also it was possible Tinynanorobots might themselves end up sanctioned. Since a topic ban on both is being considered, I might have been right in a way. If a topic ban results, I'd like to suggest admins considered some guidance beyond broadly constructed on how any topic ban would apply. While the entirety of the Yasuke article and the list of foreign born samurai stuff seem clear enough, one concern I've had at ANI is how to handle the editing at Samurai and its talk page. A lot of the recent stuff involving these editors seems to relate to the definition of samurai. AFAIK, this is generally been a big part of the dispute of Yasuke (he can/can't be a samurai because it means A which was/wasn't true about him). Nil Einne (talk) 12:42, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
Result concerning Ethiopian Epic
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- I've never been very impressed with retaliatory filings, and the one below is no exception. I will also note that I'm never too impressed with "must be a sock" type accusations—either file at SPI or don't. In this case, though, I think Yasuke would be better off if neither of these two were participating there. Seraphimblade 19:33, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
- Red-tailed hawk, what are your thoughts after the responses to you? Seraphimblade 16:18, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- I think that it would be declined if it were an WP:SPI report and the editor should be mindful not to throw sock accusations around willy-nilly going forward. But I typically don't see any sort of sanction imposed when someone makes a bad SPI report, particularly if they're newer or aren't quite clueful yet. So I don't see much to do on that front other than tell them that we need more specific evidence of socking when reports are made than merely shared interest, particularly when the IPs are scattered across the world. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 02:24, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- I'm still inclined to topic ban both these editors from Yasuke, but would be interested in hearing more thoughts on that if anyone has them. Seraphimblade 07:10, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- I think that it would be declined if it were an WP:SPI report and the editor should be mindful not to throw sock accusations around willy-nilly going forward. But I typically don't see any sort of sanction imposed when someone makes a bad SPI report, particularly if they're newer or aren't quite clueful yet. So I don't see much to do on that front other than tell them that we need more specific evidence of socking when reports are made than merely shared interest, particularly when the IPs are scattered across the world. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 02:24, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- Red-tailed hawk, what are your thoughts after the responses to you? Seraphimblade 16:18, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- I also generally don't like "might-be-a-sock"-style accusations; when we are accusing someone of sockpuppetry by logged out editing we typically need evidence to substantiate it rather than just floating the possibility in a flimsy way. Filer has provided several diffs above as possible socks, but each of those IPs geolocates to a different country (Germany, Norway, and Argentina respectively) and I don't see evidence that any of those IPs are proxies.@Tinynanorobots: Can you explain what led you to note the IP edits? Is it merely shared interest and viewpoint, or is there something more?— Red-tailed hawk (nest) 02:01, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
- Looking at this .... mess... first, I'm not sure what actually was against the ArbCom decision - I don't see a 1RR violation being alleged, and the rest really appears to me to be "throw stuff at the wall and see if it sticks". But, like Seraphimblade, I'm not impressed with either of these editors actual conduct here or in general. I could be brought around to supporting a topic ban for both of these editors in the interests of clearing up the whole topic area. Ealdgyth (talk) 14:33, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Tinynanorobots: you are well above the 500 word limit. Please request an extension before adding anything more. Barkeep49 (talk) 16:18, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
Tinynanorobots
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Tinynanorobots
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- EEpic (talk) 19:14, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Tinynanorobots (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Yasuke
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 09:21, 14 November 2024. Tinynanorobots removes
As a samurai
from the lead text and replaces it withsignifying bushi status
against RFC consensus (There exists a consensus to refer to Yasuke as a samurai without qualification
). - 17:12, 15 November 2024. Tinynanorobots removes
who served as a samurai
from the lead text and addswho became a bushi or samurai
against RFC consensus (There exists a consensus against presenting Yasuke's samurai status as the object of debate
). - 12:43, 20 November 2024. On List of Foreign-born Samurai, Tinynanorobots removes the longstanding definition and adds
This list includes persons who ... may not have been considered a samurai
against RFC consensus (There exists a consensus against presenting Yasuke's samurai status as the object of debate
). - 07:48, 23 November 2024. Tinynanorobots reverts to remove
As a samurai
in the Yasuke article after Gitz6666 opposes at , again ignoring WP:ONUS. - 03:13, 4 December 2024. I restore and start a talk page discussion so that consensus can be formed.
- 14:10, 6 December 2024 . Tinynanorobots, when consensus fails to form for his position, becomes uncivil and engages in a sarcastic personal attack
What you are saying doesn't make sense. Perhaps there is a language issue here. Maybe your native language handles the future differently than English?
- 14:22, 11 December 2024. Tinynanorobots removes "As a samurai" again, ignoring WP:ONUS and BRD even though no consensus has formed for his position, and no consensus has formed to change existing consensus.
- 08:37, 6 December 2024. Tinynanorobots explains their reasons,
I don't know if samurai is the right term
which is against consensus. - 07:27, 28 November 2024. POV-pushing - With no edit summary Tinynanorobots tag bombs by adding
Slavery in Japan
.
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
- Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on 23:06, 13 November 2024.
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
Tinynanorobots frequently edits against consensus, restores his edits when others revert, doesn't wait for consensus, and engages in feuding behavior. He seems to think WP:BRD or WP:ONUS don't apply to him which is disruptive, and I don't know why.
Unaccounted removals of sources 23:44, 14 September 2024 - Warning from other editor about repeated removal of content when multiple users are objecting.
AGF 12:21, 15 September 2024 - Warning from yet another editor about not assuming good faith and making personal attacks
It seems to be chronic which suggests behavior problems. Tinynanorobots also frequently fails to assume good faith in others. I don't know why as I don't have any issues with him.
Their preferred edit for Yasuke against the RFC consensus is now still in the lead section.
@Relm Sorry for the confusion. I think we talking about different edits, so I'll adjust that part. I am referring to Tinynanorobot's repeated removal of As a samurai
against RFC consensus, which states There exists a consensus to refer to Yasuke as a samurai without qualification
.
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning Tinynanorobots
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Tinynanorobots
The accusations made by EE are so misleading as to be evidence against him. Most of what he is discussing is in reference to a successful BRD. I actually discussed the bold edit first on the talk, but didn't get much of a response. I decided a bold edit would get more feedback. The edits were reverted and then discussed. Gitz's main problem was OR, not a RfC violation. This was because he didn't read the cited source. Anyway, since Atkin says "signifying bushi status", I have no objection to restoring this text.
I never used any sarcasm, I know that some languages handle how they talk about time differently. It seems reasonable that a translation error could be the reason for EE asking me not to change the article, althoug my edit had already been restored by someone else and at the same time asking me to discuss that I had already discussed and was already discussing. I am disappointed that EE didn't point out that he felt attacked, so that I could apologize.
This was written in response to another user, and the whole thought is I don't know if samurai is the right term. It is the term a fair amount of sources use, and the one that the RfC says should be used. It is also consistent with common usage in reference to other historical figures.
In fact earlier in that post I said this: I am not qualified to say whither or not Yasuke having a house meant that he was a samurai
This is blatantly taking a quote out of context in order to prejudice the Admins against me.
- @User:Ealdgyth I filed here, because the last time I filed at ANI it was suggested that I bring things here if things continue by an Admin. I try to follow advice, although I keep getting conflicting signals from Admins. I am most concerned that you find my work on Samurai and List of Foreign-born Samurai in Japan not adding anything helpful. My suggestion to rewrite the way samurai was defined on the List in order to reduce OR and bring it in line with WP:LSC was meant with unanimous approval by those who responded. Samurai is a high importance article that has tags on it from years back, is unorganized and contains outdated information. I am not the best writer, but I have gotten some books, and am pretty much the only one working on it.
Statement by Relm
I am the editor alluded to and quoted as 'protesting' Tinynanorobots edit. When I originally made that topic, I was fixing a different edit which left the first sentence as a grammatically incomplete sentence. When I looked at it in the editing view, one of the quotes in the citation beforehand was quoting Atkins Vera, and I mistook this for the opening quote having been changed. When I closed the editing menu I saw 'signifying samurai status' in the second paragraph and confused the two for each other as I had not noticed the addition of the latter phrase a little under a month ago. I realized my mistake almost immediately after I posted the new topic, and made this (1) edit to clarify my mistake while also attempting to instead direct the topic towards making sure that the edit recieved sufficient assent from Gitz (it did) and to talk about improvements that could be made to the opening sentence. I further clarified and made clear that I was not accusing Tinynanorobots of having done anything wrong in a later response (2).
Though many of their earlier edits on the page may show some issues, as they grew more familiar with the past discussions I believe that Tinynanorobots has made valuable contributions to the page in good faith. Relm (talk) 03:21, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Barkeep49
- @Ealdgyth I think this misinterprets the ArbCom decision. So Yakuse is a contentious topic and it has a 1RR restriction, in the same way as say PIA. As in PIA administrators can sanction behavior that violates the contentious topics procedures besides 1RR. Beyond that, editing against the RFC is a finding of fact from the case. Barkeep49 (talk) 16:25, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by (username)
Result concerning Tinynanorobots
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- As above, I'm failing to see what exactly is against the ArbCom case rulings - I don't see a 1RR violation. But also as above, I'm coming to the view that neither of these editors are adding anything helpful to the topic area and am leaning towards a topic ban for both. Ealdgyth (talk) 14:35, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
Selfstudier
No evidence of misconduct was presented. Filer Allthemilescombined1 is informally warned against frivolous filings. -- Tamzin (they|xe|🤷) 02:36, 19 December 2024 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
}
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Selfstudier
Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 5
On I/P topics, my edits on numerous occasions have been reverted almost immediately, by Selfstudier and their fellow editors who seem to be always hanging around I/P, and "owning" the topic area. They are creating a hostile editing environment and are violating NPOV. Concerns for possible WP:CIVIL and WP:TENDENTIOUS violations:
Concerns for possible WP:GAME and WP:NOT ADVOCACY violations:
Concerns for possible WP:ASPERSIONS violations:
Concerns for possible WP:TAG TEAM violations:
Selected examples of my edits which were reverted within hours or minutes (this list is far from comprehensive):
In summary, I have experienced a pattern of consistent, and what appears to be organized, intimidation from a small group of editors.
Discussion concerning SelfstudierStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by SelfstudierStatement by Sean.hoylandI see I've been mentioned but not pinged. That's nice. I encourage anyone to look at the diffs and the context. Why are there editors in the topic area apparently ignoring WP:NOTFORUM and WP:NOTADVOCACY? It's a mystery. It is, and has always been, one of the root causes of instability in the topic area and wastes so much time. Assigning a cost to advocacy might reduce it. Either way, it needs to be actively suppressed by enforcement of the WP:NOT policy. It's a rule, not an aspiration. Sean.hoyland (talk) 15:23, 13 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by Butterscotch BelugaI didn't say it was "irrelevant to pro-Palestine protests" as a whole. The edit I reverted was specifically at 2024 pro-Palestinian protests on university campuses, so as I said, the "Incident did not occur at a university campus so is outside the scope of this article". We have other articles like Israel–Hamas war protests & more specifically Israel–Hamas war protests in the United States that are more in scope of your proposed edit. - Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 20:52, 13 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by HuldraI wish the filer would have wiki-linked names, then you would easily have seen that Bernard-Henri Lévy "is not an expert on Zionism or colonialism”, or that Adam Kirsch “does not appear to be an expert in Zionism or Settler colonial studies but is apparently well known for a pro Israel viewpoint", Huldra (talk) 22:11, 13 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by RolandRI too have been mentioned above, and complained about, but not been notified. If this is not a breach of Misplaced Pages regulations, then it ought to be. As for the substance, I see that I am accused of describing Norman H. Finkelstein as a "non-notable children’s writer". Norman H. Finkelstein was indeed a children's writer, as described in most reports and obituaries. At the time of the original edit and my revert, he was not considered sufficiently notable to merit a Misplaced Pages article; it was only a week later that the OP created an article, of which they have effectively been the only editor. So I stand by my characterisation, which is an accurate and objective description of the author. Further, I was concerned that a casual reader might be led to confuse this writer with the highly significant writer Norman Finkelstein; in fact, I made my edit after AlsoWukai had made this mistake and linked the cited author to the genuinely notable person. This whole report, and the sneaky complaints about me and other editors, is entirely worthless and should be thrown out. RolandR (talk) 22:29, 13 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by Zero0000This edit by OP is illustrative. It is just a presentation of personal belief with weak or irrelevant sources. I don't see evidence of an ability to contribute usefully. Zero 00:31, 14 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by SameboatIt is clear that the filer has failed to understand my message, which was a warning about repeated violations of the NotForum policy. Instead, they have misinterpreted my actions, as well as those of others, as part of a coordinated "tag team." I raised my concerns on User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish after the filer's edit on the UNRWA article regarding its controversy, which failed to properly attribute the information to its source—the Israeli government. This filing is a complete waste of time, and serious sanctions should be imposed on the filer if similar issues occur again in the future. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk · contri.) 02:17, 14 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by AlsoWukaiContrary to the filer's complaint, I never made an edit "removing the disappearance of the ANC's $31 million debt when South Africa accused Israel of genocide." I can only conclude that the filer misread the edit history. AlsoWukai (talk) 20:55, 14 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by ValereeeeThe diff allthemiles links to above is me responding to their post (in which they complained about a mildly sarcastic remark by another editor) where they said, "If respectful discussion is not possible, administrative involvement will be needed." I've been trying to keep up at that article talk, so I responded giving them my take on it. I tried to keep engaging, trying to help them understand the challenges for less experienced editors trying to work in the topic, offering advice on how they could get up to speed at that particular article, even offering to continue the discussion at their talk or mine. Valereee (talk) 14:29, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
Result concerning Selfstudier
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Rasteem
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Rasteem
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- NXcrypto (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 03:06, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Rasteem (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- WP:ARBIPA
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 23:21 12 December 2024 - removed wikilink of an Indian railway station thus violating his topic ban from India and Pakistan.
This violation comes after he was already warned for his first violation of the topic ban.
Upon a closer look into his recent contribution, I found that he is simply WP:GAMING the system by creating articles like Arjan Lake which is overall only 5,400 bytes but he made nearly 50 edits here. This is clearly being done by Rasteem for passing the 500 edits mark to get his topic ban overturned.
I recommend increasing the topic ban to indefinite duration. Nxcrypto Message 03:06, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- "topic banned from the subject of India and Pakistan, broadly construed, until both six months have elapsed and they have made 500 edits after being notified of this sanction."
- If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
- I agree that there are genuine CIR issues with Rasteem, for example while this ARE report is in progress they created Javan Lake, which has promotional statements like: "The lake's stunning caluts, majestic desert topographies, and serene lakes produce a shifting destination. Its unique charm attracts a wide range of guests, from adventure contenders to nature suckers and beyond". Nxcrypto Message 03:26, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Rasteem
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Rasteem
This approach seems to be a coordinated attack to abandon me from Misplaced Pages indefinitely. Indeed, after my ban for 6 months. I was banned on 6 December, and in just 7 days, this report is literally an attempt to make me leave Misplaced Pages.
1. I rolled back my own edit; it was last time made unintentionally. I was about to revert it, but my internet connection was lost, so when I logged in again, I regressed it.
The internet is constantly slow and sometimes goes down. I live in a hilly location and I had formerly mentioned it.
My edits on Arjan Lake isn't any WP:GAMING factual number of edits I made; it is 45, not 50. Indeed, I made similar edits before in September and December months on the same articles within a single day or 2-3 days.
2. List of villages in Khoda Afarin on this article, I've added 5680 bytes & made 43 edits.
3. List of villages in Tabriz on this article I've added 4000 bytes & made 49 edits.
Statement by (username)
Result concerning Rasteem
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- While I don't see a change in editing pattern that indicates gaming, the edits to Arjan Lake indicate issues with competence, as the article is weirdly promotional and contains phrases such as "beast species", "emotional 263 proved species". —Femke 🐦 (talk) 20:57, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
- Adding to Femke's point,
magnific 70- cadence-high waterfalls in this area
is not prose that inspires confidence in the editor's competence to edit the English Misplaced Pages. So, we have violations of a topic ban and questions about the editor's linguistic competence and performance. Perhaps an indefinite block appealable in six months with a recommendation to build English competency by editing the Simple English Misplaced Pages, and to build general Misplaced Pages skills by editing in the version of Misplaced Pages in the language they speak best during that minimum six month period. As for Arjan Lake, although the prose is poor, the references in the article make it clear to me that the topic is notable, so the editor deserves some credit for starting this article that did not exist for two decades plus. Cullen328 (talk) 08:57, 14 December 2024 (UTC) - Brief comment to avoid the archive bot. Seraphimblade 17:46, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
שלומית ליר
שלומית ליר is reminded to double-check edits before publishing, and to try to reply more promptly when asked about potential mistakes. —Femke 🐦 (talk) 20:21, 18 December 2024 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning שלומית ליר
N/A
The user wrote that NATO had supported accusations against Hamas citing a chapter titled Hamas and Human Rights in a book titled Hamas Rule in Gaza: Human Rights under Constraint. They cited the entire chapter, pages 56–126. The source itself is a work of scholarship, and nobody would challenge it as a reliable source. Luckily, the full text of the book is available via the Misplaced Pages Library, and anybody with access to that can verify for themselves that the word "shield" appears nowhere in the book. Not human shield, or even NATO (nato appears in searches with the results being "explanatory, twice and coordinator once, or Atlantic, or N.A.T.O. It is simply made up that this source supports that material. The user later, after being challenged but declining to answer what in the source supports it (see here), added another source that supposedly supports the material, this paper by NATO StratCom COE, however they themselves say they are not part of the NATO Command Structure, nor subordinate to any other NATO entity. As such the Centre does not therefore speak for NATO, though that misunderstanding is certainly forgivable. However, completely making up that a source supports something, with a citation to 70 pages of a book, is less so. That is to me a purposeful attempt at obfuscating that the source offered does not support the material added, and the lack of any attempt of explaining such an edit on the talk page led me to file a report here. nableezy - 23:48, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
Discussion concerning שלומית לירStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by שלומית לירThe article "Use of human shields by Hamas" is intended to address a well-documented phenomenon: Hamas’s deliberate use of civilian infrastructure — homes, hospitals, and mosques — as shields for its military operations. This includes hiding weapons, constructing military tunnels beneath civilian populations, and knowingly placing innocent lives in harm’s way. Yet, I found the article falls far short of adequately describing this phenomenon. It presents vague and generalized accusations while failing to reference the numerous credible organizations that have extensively documented these practices. During my review, I discovered that essential sources were available in the article's edit history (https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Use_of_human_shields_by_Hamas&oldid=1262868174). I retrieved and restored these sources without reverting prior edits, including a source referenced by user Nableezy. When it was brought to my attention that an error had occurred, I acknowledged it, thanked the user, and corrected it by incorporating two reliable references. I had hoped this would resolve the issue, but apparently, it did not. Now, I find myself the subject of an arbitration enforcement hearing that feels not only unwarranted but intended to intimidate me from contributing further to this article. I would also like to point out that the responses to my edits raise serious concerns. For instance, an image depicting missiles hidden in a family home — an image used in other Wikipedias to illustrate this topic — was removed. This raises the question: why obscure such critical evidence? Similarly, a scholarly source with credible information that emphasizes the severity of this issue was reverted without clear justification. This article should serve as a thorough account of Hamas's war crimes, which have resulted in the deaths of innocent civilians. Instead, it seems that some editors are working to dilute its substance, resisting efforts to include vital context and documentation at the start of the article. This undermines the article’s purpose and risks distorting the public’s understanding of an issue of profound international importance.שלומית ליר (talk) 19:52, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Supreme DeliciousnessValereee created the article Politics of food in the Arab–Israeli conflict. She is therefor involved in the topic area and shouldn't be editing in the uninvolved admin section.--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 08:41, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by (username)Result concerning שלומית ליר
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KronosAlight
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning KronosAlight
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Butterscotch Beluga (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 03:16, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- KronosAlight (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4#ARBPIA General Sanctions
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- Adds "depiste being an ex-Muslim" to dismiss accusations of Islamophobia MOS:EDITORIAL.
- Adds MOS:SCAREQUOTES around ‘promoted Islamophobia’ & ‘Islamophobia’ while removing the supporting context.
- Changed "interpreted that statement as a threat and incitement to violence" to "claimed was a threat and incitement to violence, though no threats or violence in fact occurred" MOS:CLAIM & MOS:EDITORIAL
- Changes "Israeli settlers" to "Israeli soldiers" despite the source only explicitly stating them "throwing stones on settlers."
- Unnecessarily specific additions that may constitute WP:POVPUSH such as adding "against civilians" & changing "prevent the assassinations of many Israelis" to "prevent the assassinations of many Israeli civilians and soldiers"
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- 24 June 2024 Warned to abide by the one-revert rule when making edits within the scope of the Arab-Israeli conflict topic area.
- 22 October 2024 Blocked from editing for 1 week for violating consensus required on the page Zionism
- If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
- Previously given a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction or warned for conduct in the area of conflict on 22 October 2024 by ScottishFinnishRadish (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA).
- Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on 24 January 2024.
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
All edits were made at Mosab Hassan Yousef. After I partially reverted their edits with an explanation, I brought the issue to their attention on the talk page, asking for their rationale. They replied that they were "correcting factual errors introduced by previous antisemitic editors" & asked if I "perhaps have a deeper bias that’s influencing decisions in this respect?"
They then undid my partial revert
- Ealdgyth - While I can't find any comments where they were explicitly "warned for casting aspersions", they were asked back in June to WP:AGF in the topic area.
- Also, apologies for my "diffs of edits that violate this sanction" section, this is the first time I've filed a request here & I thought it'd be best to explain the preamble to my revert, but I understand now that I misunderstood the purpose of that section & will remember such for the future. - Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 15:37, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Vanamonde93 I was able to find a copy of the opinion article being cited 'They Need to Be Liberated From Their God'. Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 20:14, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning KronosAlight
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by KronosAlight
This is a complete waste of the Arbitration Committee’s time.
1. That Yousef was born and raised a Muslim is important and neutral context for readers to be aware of when the article refers to claims of ‘Islamophobia’.
2. The scarequotes indicate that the claim comes from the sources provided, rather than being an objective ‘fact’ determined by a few Misplaced Pages Editors with an axe to grind.
3. This was already addressed on the Talk page and I updated the sentence to say settlers/soldiers with a further label that it needed further clarification because the source does not in fact unambiguously say what Butterscotch Beluga claims.
A few lines above what Butterscotch Beluga quotes is the following lines: “AMANPOUR: How did you take part in that? Were you one of the small children who threw rocks at Israeli soldiers?
YOUSEF: The model for every Palestinian child is a mujahid (ph) or a fidahi (ph) or a fighter. So, of course, I wanted to be one at that point of my life. It wasn't -- it's not my only dream. It's every child's dream in that territory.”
The updated Wiki page noted both settlers/soldiers and included a note that this requires further clarification, perhaps based on other sources, because it isn’t clear (contra Butterscotch Beluga) whether he is referring to soldiers or settlers.
4. It is not controversial to accurately describe Hamas as a terrorist organisation. It is simply a fact. To suggest otherwise is POV-pushing.
5. This is not POVPUSH; ‘assassinations’ against civilians during peacetime are usually called ‘murders’.
I in fact didn’t even remove the word ‘assassinations’, I merely broadened the description from ‘Israelis’ to ‘Israeli civilians and soldiers’ (as Butterscotch accepted) to indicate the breadth of the individuals in question included both civilians and combatants. This is not POVPUSH, it is simply additional information and context verified in the source itself.
All in all, a vexatious claim and a waste of the Arbitration Committee’s time.
Statement by Sean.hoyland
Regarding "I was correcting factual errors introduced by previous antisemitic editors", it would be helpful if KronosAlight would explicitly identify the antisemitic editors and the edits they corrected so that they can be blocked for being antisemitic editors. Sean.hoyland (talk) 08:17, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
The editor has been here since 2012. It is reasonable to assume that they know the rules regarding aspersions. It is reasonable to assume they are intentionally violating them, presumably because they genuinely believe they are dealing with antisemitic editors. So, this report is somehow simultaneously a vexatious complete waste of time and the result of the someone interfering with their valiant efforts to correct errors made by antisemitic editors. Why do they have this belief? This is probably a clue, a comment they had the good sense to revert. For me, this is an example of someone attempting to use propaganda that resembles antisemitic conspiracy theories about media control to undermine Misplaced Pages's processes and then changing their mind. But the very fact that they thought of it is disturbing. Their revert suggests that they are probably aware that there are things you can say about an editor and things you cannot say about an editor. From my perspective, what we have here is part of an emerging pattern in the topic area, a growing number of attacks on Misplaced Pages and editors with accusations of antisemitism, cabals etc. stemming in part from external partisan sources/influence operations. Sean.hoyland (talk) 17:35, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Zero0000
Aspersions:
- I made that comment to highlight the obvious problem of antisemitism among Misplaced Pages editors.
- It seems less like a merger and more like a deliberate burying of the original information.
- Given some of the users involved there, I don’t have very high hopes given the Pirate Wires allegations.
- Is there no limits you will not cross in order to seek to justify your Jew-hatred?
Zero 10:36, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Vice regent
KronosAlight, you changed on 14 Dec 2024: "An open letter signed by Christian and Muslim religious leaders interpreted that statement as a threat and incitement to violence
" to "An open letter signed by Christian and Muslim religious leaders claimed was a threat and incitement to violence, though no threats or violence in fact occurred
".
Can you show where either of the sources state "though no threats or violence in fact occurred"? VR (Please ping on reply) 18:07, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Smallangryplanet
Wanted to add some pertinent evidence:
Talk:Zionism:
- "Interesting question, you should look it up and find an answer"
- I’ll leave it to others to consider what that says about Misplaced Pages’s community.
- If your claim is that the sinking of SS Patria is morally comparable then I simply don’t think you should be allowed to contribute to any of these articles
- You think WW2 and the Holocaust are too low-level to include in the lede?
Talk:Allegations of genocide in the 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon:
Talk:Relations between Nazi Germany and the Arab world:
Talk:2024 Lebanon electronic device attacks:
Talk:Anti-Zionism:
- There's no difference between opposing the Jewish people's right to self-determination and calling for the destruction of the State of Israel. It's just two different sets of words to describe the same thing.
- "The route to this implication is via the identification of anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism. Anti-Semites want to rid the world of Jews: Israel is a Jewish State: Anti-Zionists oppose Israel as a Jewish state, ergo anti-Zionists are anti-Semitic, and as such, seek the destruction of Israel." All of this is correct.
Talk:Gaza genocide:
- Even if we assume that Hamas' own numbers are broadly correct (which we shouldn't, because it don't distinguish between civilian and combatant casualties, and have been repeatedly proven be largely just invented), that doesn’t seem to even come close to genocide. Why are we even indulging this ludicrous nonsense?
- When this war ends and the vast, vast, vast majority of Palestinians in both Gaza and the West Bank are still alive and negotiating begin about the future of their region and political administration etc., will this article be deleted, or will this remain as yet another blood libel against the Jewish people?
Talk:Nuseirat rescue and massacre:
Talk:Al-Sardi school attack:
Talk:Eden Golan:
Other sanctions:
- March 2024: indefinitely topic banned from the subject of flood myths for sealioning, WP:ASPERSIONS, etc
- June 2024: warned to abide by 1RR
- October 2024: blocked for a week
Statement by (username)
Result concerning KronosAlight
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- Much of the "diffs of edits that violate this sanction" fail to explain "how these edits violate" the sanction - to me, much of these diffs look like a content dispute. However, the "additional comments" section DOES have a diff that is concerning and violates the CT by casting an aspersion that is not backed up by a diff - the "antisemitic editors" diff. Has KA been previously warned for casting aspersions? If they have, I'm inclined to issue a topic ban, but many other editors get a warning for this if they lack a previous warning. The diffs brought up by Zero (not all of which I necessarily see as aspersions, but the "Jew-hatred" one is definitely over the line - but it's from September so a bit late to sanction for just that) - did anyone point out that aspersions/incivility in this topic area is sanctionable? I see the warnings for 1RR and consensus required... Ealdgyth (talk) 13:30, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
- @KronosAlight: - can you address the fact that saying "correcting factual errors introduced by previous antisemitic editors" and "Is there no limits you will not cross in order to seek to justify your Jew-hatred"? Neither of these are statements that should ever be made - and the fact that you seem to not to understand this is making me lean towards a topic ban. Ealdgyth (talk) 14:45, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- KronosAlight, can you please provide quotes from the references you cited for - for instance - "for his terrorist activities" in this addition, showing that the sources explicitly supported the content you added? Calling a person or an organization is perfectly acceptable if you support that with reliable sources; if it is original research, or source misrepresentation, it isn't acceptable. I cannot access some of the sources in question. You may provide quotes inside a collapsed section if you wish to save space. Vanamonde93 (talk) 19:28, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
- I missed Zero's comments earlier. A lot of those comments, while concerning, are generic, not directed at a specific editor. this, however, is beyond the pale. I would need some convincing that this user is able to edit this area constructively. Vanamonde93 (talk) 20:56, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
- @KronosAlight, can you please respond to this? I too am concerned...the quote you're objecting to wasn't from DrSmarty. It was a direct quote, scare quotes and all, from the US Holocaust Memorial Museum. You seem to have reacted to it as if it were DrSmarty. Valereee (talk) 16:06, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- I missed Zero's comments earlier. A lot of those comments, while concerning, are generic, not directed at a specific editor. this, however, is beyond the pale. I would need some convincing that this user is able to edit this area constructively. Vanamonde93 (talk) 20:56, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
- I don't like to sanction in absentia, and I'm not yet suggesting we do so, but I want to note that not choosing not to respond here, or going inactive to avoid responding, will not improve the outcome as far as I am concerned. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:20, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- They're a pretty sporadic editor...many edits over a period of a few days, then nothing for two weeks. Maybe we pin this until they edit again? Valereee (talk) 17:26, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- I agree with Valereee that this editors contribution history shows a pattern of editing for a day or two at a time followed by several weeks of inactivity. So I don't think it's fair to say they went inactive here but also holding this open for multiple weeks waiting for a response places some burden on the other other interested editors. Barkeep49 (talk) 17:33, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- They're a pretty sporadic editor...many edits over a period of a few days, then nothing for two weeks. Maybe we pin this until they edit again? Valereee (talk) 17:26, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Nicoljaus
Procedural notes: Per the rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals, a "clear and substantial consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.
To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
- Appealing user
- Nicoljaus (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:09, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- Sanction being appealed
- To enforce an arbitration decision, and for edit warring, and intent to game 1rr, you have been blocked indefinitely from editing Misplaced Pages.
- Administrator imposing the sanction
- ScottishFinnishRadish (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
- Notification of that administrator
- I'm aware. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Nicoljaus
The circumstances of my blocking were:
- I was looking for a Misplaced Pages account for Hiba Abu Nada to add it to Wikidata. I couldn't find it, so I did a little research. The reference in the article indicated that she participated in some WikiWrites(?) project. I didn’t find such a project, but I found the WikiRights project: https://ar.wikipedia.org/ويكيبيديا:ويكي_رايتس. It was organized by a certain Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor. I read the Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor article and didn't see any outside perspective, "controversy" or anything like that, just self-representation. I surfed the Internet and instantly found information that must be in the article to comply with the NPOV. I started adding , everything went well for two days. Then:
- 12:53, 23 April 2024 - Zero0000 made a complete cancellation of all additions
- 13:14, 23 April 2024 - (20 minutes later!) Selfstudier wrote on my TP
- 14:20 - 14:22, 23 April 2024 - With two edits (first, second) I partially took into account the comment of Zero0000 about "ethnic marking", but returned the last .
- 14:27, 23 April 2024 (7 minutes later!!) Selfstudier makes a second complete cancellation of all my edits, blaming POV editing
- 14:45, 23 April 2024 - I’m returning the version where I partially took into account Zero0000’s comments (removed "ethnic marking")
- 15:10, 23 April 2024 - Selfstudier accuses me of 1RR breach. In the dialogue, I explained that the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination. My first undo was part of a counter edit User talk:Nicoljaus#1RR_breach
- 15:41, 23 April 2024 Selfstudier writes on Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement
- 16:10, 23 April 2024 (30 minutes later!) ScottishFinnishRadish issues an indefinite block . No opportunity to write my “statement”, as well as an extremely bad faith interpretation of my remark as "an intent to game 1rr".
Given that the both Selfstudier and Zero0000 are currently being discussed in Arbcom (https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_5/Evidence), I humbly ask you to take a fresh look at my indefinite block and soften the restrictions in some way". Nicoljaus (talk) 19:32, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- @ScottishFinnishRadish: - You mean, I need to discuss my previous edit war blocks? Well, the last one was almost four years ago and that time I simply forgot that I was under 1RR (there was a big break in editing) and tried to get sources for a newly added map, and the opponent refused to do so . As it turned out later, the true source was a book by a fringe author, which the RSN called "Usual nationalistic bullshit, no sign of reliability". Yes, it was a stupid forgetfulness on my part. Nicoljaus (talk) 16:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Aquillion:
Even if you were correct that Selfstudier & Zero0000 were WP:TAGTEAMing (always a tricky accusation, because it's hard to separate that from just your edits being so obviously problematic that two people independently reverted them)
-- That's why I wrote that my "so problematic edits" attracted attention only after two days, but two users appeared within 20 minutes. However, after months, a lot of data about the cooperation of these users appeared (and this is not my imagination): "While a single editor, Shane (a newbie), advocated for its inclusion, a trio of veterans including Zero0000, Nishidani and Selfstudier fought back. After Selfstudier accused Shane of being a troll for arguing for the photo’s inclusion, Zero0000, days later, “objected” to its inclusion, citing issues of provenance. Nishidani stepped in to back up Zero0000, prompting a response by Shane. The following day, Zero0000 pushed back against Shane, who responded. The day after, Nishidani returned with his own pushback. The tag-team effort proved too much for Shane, who simply gave up, and the effort succeeded: the photo remains absent" . I'll add that after Selfstudier accused Shane of trolling, Zero0000 appeared on Shane's page and said: "Kindly keep your insults to yourself I won't hesitate to propose you for blocking if you keep it up" . According to the table at the link , these two users cooperated like this 720 times. Probably hundreds of people were embittered, forced out of the project, or led to blocking like me.--Nicoljaus (talk) 13:02, 20 December 2024 (UTC) - @ScottishFinnishRadish: Hello, thank you very much for transferring my remarks, now I understand how it works. I would like to clarify the issue of meatpuppetry. You directly accused me of such intentions in justifying the block, and now this accusation has been repeated . Let's figure out whether my hint that Selfstudier and Zero0000 are working too closely was so absurd? Was it really and remains so absurd that it could not be perceived as anything other than my self-exposure? I don't think so.
As for the "edit war" - I understand that edit wars are evil. In the spirit of cooperation, I tried to meet my opponents halfway, as in this case, taking into account their claim, which I could understand, in the counter edit. If such an action is also considered an edit war and a violation of the 1RR/3RR rule - I will of course avoid it in the future.--Nicoljaus (talk) 16:00, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
@Valereee: Hello, I understand your point that edit wars can be disruptive, particularly in a CTOP context. However, I believe it is essential to recognize that not all reverts carry the same implications. While it is true that a revert is a revert, the context and intent behind the action should also be taken into account. In this instance, I made efforts to address the concerns of the other party involved, which reflects a willingness to engage in dialogue rather than simply reverting. Furthermore, I acknowledge your reference to the 1RR/3RR rule and my history of blocks for edit-warring. However, given the amount of time that has passed, I believe I have gained valuable insights and learned a great deal. Moreover, given this topic, I think I actually learned something unlike the other side, whose history of blocks for edit-warring remains clean.--Nicoljaus (talk) 4:24 am, Today (UTC−5)
@Valereee: In response to this, I can say that I already know very well how carelessly admins impose blocks. If any further statements are needed from me, just ping me. With best regards.--Nicoljaus (talk) 09:51, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by ScottishFinnishRadish
Absent from the appeal is discussion of the five prior edit warring blocks and any indication that they will not resume edit warring. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- I said
They have a long history of edit warring, so I'd like to see that addressed rather than blaming others
above, twelve days ago. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:30, 19 December 2024 (UTC) - Nicoljaus, you should be focusing on convincing people that you won't edit war in the future rather than more WP:NOTTHEM. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:11, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by (involved editor 1)
Statement by (involved editor 2)
Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Nicoljaus
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Simonm223
This edit looks like a bright-line WP:BLP violation via WP:ATTACK and WP:WEASEL - and removing BLP violations are generally somewhere where there is some latitude on WP:1RR which makes the actions of Zero0000 and Selfstudier more justified, not less. Simonm223 (talk) 13:50, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Aquillion
Selfstudier accuses me of 1RR breach. In the dialogue, I explained that the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination. My first undo was part of a counter edit
- I feel like this is obvious enough that I probably don't have to point it out, but "counter edit" is not a WP:3RR / WP:1RR exception. Even if you were correct that Selfstudier & Zero0000 were WP:TAGTEAMing (always a tricky accusation, because it's hard to separate that from just your edits being so obviously problematic that two people independently reverted them), it still would not justify your revert. The fact that they're parties to an ArbCom case (which hasn't even yet found any fault with them!) doesn't change any of this. You should probably read WP:NOTTHEM. --Aquillion (talk) 14:15, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Sean.hoyland
"the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination"...yet another conspiracy-minded evidence-free accusation against editors in the PIA topic area, the third one at AE in just a few days. Sean.hoyland (talk) 14:59, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by (uninvolved editor 1)
Result of the appeal by Nicoljaus
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- I do not see any indication that Nicoljaus actually realizes the problem. The edit warring blocks were indeed some time ago, but one might think they would remember it after being blocked for it repeatedly, not to mention that being issued a CTOP notice might call a CTOP restriction to mind. And the remark in question sure looks to me like a threat to game 1RR via meatpuppetry, too. Given all that, I would decline this appeal. Seraphimblade 23:10, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- I see nothing in this appeal that makes me think they've taken on board the changes that they'd need to do to be a productive editor. It reads to me like "my block was bad, here's why", and that's not working as a reason for me to support unblocking. Ealdgyth (talk) 23:21, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- Nicoljaus, what we need to see is you demonstrating you understand edit-warring at a CTOP, which is what you were blocked for, and convincing us you won't do it again. Arguing the block should be lifted because other editors did something you thought looked suspicious isn't going to convince us. Just FWIW, Nicoljaus, the source doesn't actually say these two users cooperated like this 720 times. It says they edited the same articles 720 times, and that's not unusual. Most editors see the same other editors over and over again in articles about their primary interest. And edit by editor 1>2 days>revert by editor 2>revert by editor 1>20 minutes>revert by editor 3 is also not at all unusual anywhere on the encyclopedia and isn't evidence of tag-teaming. People read their watch lists. Any editor with that article on their watchlist, which is nearly fifty editors, might have investigated the large revert of an edit by an experienced editor at a contentious topic. Valereee (talk) 15:18, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Nicoljaus, it's not that edit wars are evil. It's that they're disruptive, and particularly in a CTOP we really really don't need additional disruption and drama. A revert is a revert, even if you tried to meet my opponents halfway, as in this case, taking into account their claim, which I could understand, in the counter edit. Re: If such an action is also considered an edit war and a violation of the 1RR/3RR rule: a revert is a revert and is covered in the policy around reversions. And you have a history of blocks for edit-warring, including at other CTOPs.
- It's been seven months since the block. I'm trying to come around to a way to at least allow this editor a chance to show us they've taken this stuff on board...maybe a 0RR at all CTOPs? Valereee (talk) 17:44, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Nicoljaus, re I believe it is essential to recognize that not all reverts carry the same implications. While it is true that a revert is a revert, the context and intent behind the action should also be taken into account. In this instance, I made efforts to address the concerns of the other party involved, which reflects a willingness to engage in dialogue rather than simply reverting. Some editors at talk pages will take your apparent intentions into account. Some will just take you to ANEW. Some admins at ANEW will take your apparent intentions into account. Some will just reblock you.
- No one anywhere is promising that your intentions will be taken into account -- or even that they'll try to figure out what your intentions are -- and therefore it's completely your responsibility to read the situation you're in correctly. If you read it wrong, you're likely to be blocked again, and honestly another block for edit-warring at a CTOP is likely to be another indef, and it would absolutely not surprise me for the blocking admin to require 12 months to appeal. Valereee (talk) 15:25, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- No need to reply, but I'll tell you plainly I've been trying to give you opportunities to convince other admins here, and you keep wanting to dig the hole deeper. I'd support an unblock with an editing restriction of 0RR at any article with a CTOPs designation on the talk page. Valereee (talk) 13:13, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
PerspicazHistorian
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning PerspicazHistorian
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- NXcrypto (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- PerspicazHistorian (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- WP:ARBIPA
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 17:57, 18 December 2024 - removed "discrimination" sidebar from the page of Hindutva (fascist ideology) even though the sidebar was inserted inside a section, not even the lead.
- 17:59, 18 December 2024 - tag bombed the highly vetted Hindutva article without any discussion or reason
- 10:15, 18 December 2024 - attributing castes to people withhout any sources
- 12:11, 18 December 2024 - edit warring to impose the above edits after getting reverted
- 17:09, 18 December 2024 - just like above, but this time he also added unreliable sources
- 18:29, 18 December 2024 - still edit warring and using edit summaries instead of talk page for conversation
- 14:46, 19 December 2024 (UTC) - filed an outrageous report on WP:ANI without notifying any editors. This report was closed by Bbb23 as "
This is nothing but a malplaced, frivolous personal attack by the OP.
"
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
I do not see any positive signs that this editor will ever improve. So far he has only regressed. Nxcrypto Message 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- While going through this report, PerspicazHistorian has made another highly problematic edit here by edit warring and misrepresenting the sources to label the organisation as "terrorist". This primary source only provides a list of organisations termed by the Indian government as "terrorist" contrary to MOS:TERRORIST. Nxcrypto Message 03:12, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
Discussion concerning PerspicazHistorian
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by PerspicazHistorian
By far I am also concerned how my edits were forcefully reverted without a proper reason despite providing enough references. Please check how I am getting attacked by them on Chandraseniya_Kayastha_Prabhu Page.
I didn't know about the three-revert-rule before User: Ratnahastin told me about this: User_talk:PerspicazHistorian.
Please grant me one more chance, I will make sure not to edit war.
In the below statement by LukeEmily, As a reply I just want to say that I was just making obvious edit on Chandraseniya_Kayastha_Prabhu by adding a list of notable people with proper references. And according to Edit_warring#What_edit_warring_is it is clearly said: "Edits from a slanted point of view, general insertion or removal of material, or other good-faith changes are not considered vandalism." It was a good faith edit but others reverted it. I accept my mistake of not raising it on talk page as a part of Misplaced Pages:BOLD,_revert,_discuss_cycle.
As a clarification to my edit on Students' Islamic Movement of India, it can be clearly seen that I provided enough reference to prove its a terrorist organisation as seen in this edit. I don't know why is there a discussion to this obvious edit? Admins please correct me if I am wrong.
- @Valereee, Yes I read about 1RR and 0RR revert rules in Misplaced Pages:Edit warring#What edit warring is#Other revert rules. I now understand the importance of raising the topic on talk page whenever a consensus is needed. Thank You ! PerspicazHistorian (talk) 07:16, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, I will commit to that. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 13:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC) Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section. Seraphimblade 13:19, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- At that time I was new to how AFD discussions worked. Later on when Satish R. Devane was marked for deletion, I respected the consensus by not interfering in it. The article was later deleted. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 11:54, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- Hi @Doug Weller , I just checked your user page. You have 16 years (I am 19) of experience on wiki, you must be right about me. I agree that my start on Misplaced Pages has been horrible, but I am learning a lot from you all. I promise that I will do better, get more neutral here and contribute to the platform to my best. Please don't block me.
- P.S.- I don't know If I will be blocked or what , according to this enforcement rules, I just want to personally wish good luck to you for your ongoing cancer treatments, You will surely win this battle of Life. Regards. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 12:23, 21 December 2024 (UTC)Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section.Valereee (talk) 15:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by LukeEmily
PerspicazHistorian also violated WP:BRD by engaging in an edit war with Ratnahastin who reverted his edits and restored an article to a stable version by admin. Also, I want to assume good faith but it is surprising that PerspicazHistorian claims that he did not know the three revert rule given that he has more than 800 edits.LukeEmily (talk)
Statement by Doug Weller
I'm involved so just commenting. I don't think this editor is competent. I had to give them a community sanction caste warning as they were making a mess of castes. See this earlier version of their talk page.]https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:PerspicazHistorian&oldid=1262289249] and User:Deb's comment that "It was very unwise of you to keep moving Draft:Satish R. Devane to article space when it has not passed review. As a direct result of your actions, a deletion discussion is taking place, and when this is complete and the article is deleted, you will be prevented from recreating it. Deb (talk) 14:44, 4 December 2024 (UTC)" There have also been copyright issues. I strongly support a topic ban. Doug Weller talk 11:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- I won't be involved in the decision. No more treatments for me, just coast until... Doug Weller talk 12:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
Result concerning PerspicazHistorian
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
PerspicazHistorian, can you explain your understanding of WP:edit warring and the WP:3RR rule? I'd like you to read thoroughly enough to also explain wny someone may be edit warring even if they aren't breaking 3RR. Valereee (talk) 21:58, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- @PerspicazHistorian, that explanation of edit warring is a bit wanting. An edit war is when two or more editors revert content additions/removals repeatedly. Even a second reversion by the same editor can be considered edit warring. Best practice -- and what I highly recommend, especially for any inexperienced editor -- is the first time someone reverts an edit of yours, go to the talk page, open a section, ping the editor who reverted you, and discuss. Do you think you can commit to that?
- Re: your question on why your "obvious edit" was reverted: we don't deal with content issues here, only with behavior issues, but from a very quick look, the source is 50 years old, and using a list headed "TERRORIST ORGANISATIONS LISTED IN THE FIRST SCHEDULE OF THE UNLAWFUL ACTIVITIES (PREVENTION) ACT, 1967" that includes a certain organization as a source that the organization should be described as a terrorist organization is WP:ORIGINAL RESEARCH; in their revert NXcrypto provided an edit summary of "Not a reliable source for such a contentious label. See WP:LABEL." Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here. Valereee (talk) 11:28, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
Walter Tau
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Walter Tau
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Bobby Cohn (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 20:51, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Walter Tau (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Eastern Europe#Final decision
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 4 December 2024 Creation (and subsequent editing and AfC submission) of Draft:Maternity capital. See it's page history, there's no need to supply the entirety of the diffs here.
- For context on how this subject falls under the purview, see the context given by the news article as shared on the talk page: Russia using adoption of Ukranian children during the Russo-Ukranian war. Then note how this state program directly discusses adoption support, which was adapted by Putin following the start of the war. A citation given in the draft article. The Google translated version specifically notes the changes "At the same time, residents of the new regions will receive maternity capital regardless of the basis and timing of their acquisition of Russian citizenship" (emphasis mine).
- This draft, as it is written, is extremely promotional in areas and could basically be hosted on a state-sponsored website. Given the context, I believe this falls under the topic ban.
References
- Bruce, Camdyn (14 December 2022). "Ukrainian official rips Russia for 'kidnapping' more than 13,000 children". The Hill.
- "Путин подписал закон, уточняющий условия выплаты материнского капитала" . interfax.ru.
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- 26 November 2024 Notice given by Rosguill (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) that they were now subject to an arbitration enforcement sanction
- 5 December 2024 Blocked by Swatjester (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) for violating the sanction based on the edits to a project page.
- If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
- Has been made aware, see the diffs in the above section.
- Alerted about contentious topics as it applies to this specific draft, on 4 December 2024 by Asilvering (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA), given a warning about this specific draft and how it falls under the above purview.
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
It has been repeatedly pointed out to Walter Tau that they are skirting the line of the their topic ban by specifically not mentioning the "elephant in the room", see the diff by Asilvering above. They have also repeatedly chosen to ignore advice that they stop editing in the subject area and have repeatedly claimed to fail to see how their editing is problematic. As such, I have opened this discussion here so as to get an answer for Walter Tau on their editing, see "Also, since you mentioned a "topic ban", I would appreciate, if you provide a reference to it, as well as explain how it relates to this article Materniy Capital." They claim to continuously be unaware of the ban, see also their talk page discussions.
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Notified 24 December 2024.
Discussion concerning Walter Tau
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Walter Tau
I feel, that the decision by Boby Cohn regarding my draft https://en.wikipedia.org/Draft:Maternity_capital, is "arbitrary and capriciuos" to use US legal terms : ], for the following reasons:
1) nowhere my draft mentions the words "Ukraine" or "Ukrainian".
2) this draft ] is a translation of the original Russian wiki- article : https://ru.wikipedia.org/%D0%9C%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BB . I have heard the argument, that different languages in Misplaced Pages use different standards for articles' notability etc. Can someone please provide a web-link to Misplaced Pages rules, that actually confirms, that different standards for different languages is the currently accepted policy. I have been unable to find such statement.
3) In fact, my draft focuses mostly on the policies before 24 February 2022, i.e. before full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine.
4) Please correct me, if I am wrong, by it seems that Boby Cohn's only argument of my ban violation is the following statement in my draft of Maternity Capital. "Residents of new regions are paid maternity capital regardless of the time and basis for obtaining Russian citizenship." In my defense: I did not write that statement- it is a Google translation from the Russian wiki, actually a small part of the translated text. And with all honesty, when I was reading the translated text, it did not cross my mind, that someone may interpret so broadly. Also, this sentence-in-question does not really add much to the main subject to the article, and I do not object to its deletion.
5) Considering, that a) I did not write, but only translated the text-in-question; b) the relevance to the text-in-question to my topic ban is not apparent, particularly in the larger context of the whole article; c) I do not object deleting the text-in-question from the draft; may I suggest changing the draft to fix this controversy?
6) If there are other controversial sections/sentences in my translated draft, it may be better if someone re-writes them. Most wiki-readers, can agree with a statement, that this draft ] may not reach an "Article of the Day" status, but it has a value as a stand-alone article as well as a source of references (more-to-be-added). Walter Tau (talk) 13:45, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by TylerBurden
Walter Tau doesn't seem to think they have done anything wrong on Misplaced Pages, so it's honestly not surprising to see them continuing to push the limit despite the sanctions they have received. At some point you have to wonder if there is a foundational WP:COMPETENCE or trolling (or a combination of both) issue. Either way, yes they are clearly violating their topic ban by writing about the Russian kidnapping of Ukrainian children from the war, because that is what this whole ″adoption″ thing is. --TylerBurden (talk) 17:22, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by (username)
Result concerning Walter Tau
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- Sidestepping for now the question of whether simply not mentioning anything conflict-related would have been enough to avoid a TBAN violation, the references to "new regions" make this a violation much more straightforwardly. Justice is blind but not stupid. Walter, I think we're going to need to see recognition from you that this was a TBAN violation, if we're going to find a good path forward here. I'd also like to know who you are referring to when you reference other editors working on the draft? Auric has made some gnomish edits but you appear to be the only substantive editor. And why are you implying, on Bobby's talk, that y'all have been corresponding by email, when he denies that? -- Tamzin (they|xe|🤷) 22:29, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- I'll be direct: I think Walter knows what he is doing and has no intention of abiding by his TBAN, even when it was exhaustively explained to him, and I don't think we should be wasting further time here when we're almost certainly going to be right back here again within a few weeks. ⇒SWATJester 05:29, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
- Back off a one week block for violating the topic ban, and already violating it again? (The "new regions" material is unquestionably a violation.) It seems that Walter Tau is either unwilling or unable to abide by the restriction, and does not, even after explanation, understand any of the issues here (or even understand something so simple as that different language Wikipedias are independent from one another and each have their own policies and practices). Given that, I don't see anything to be done here except to indef. Seraphimblade 17:45, 25 December 2024 (UTC)