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Revision as of 16:37, 2 September 2013 editBlueMoonset (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers72,537 edits What to do without GA bot?: new section← Previous edit Latest revision as of 15:30, 28 December 2024 edit undoLee Vilenski (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Bureaucrats, Administrators74,965 edits Inactive nominations: ReplyTags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit Advanced mobile edit Reply 
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== Old nomination ==

I nominated ] in February and now it's the oldest nominee that hasn't been reviewed. I realize it's a pretty big article. Does anyone want to split up the review to make it easier to digest? When I started this process I didn't realize it would take so long. ] (]) 18:46, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

:I am planning to start it on Sunday. The only reason I'm starting it on Sunday and not now (or 4 weeks ago) is that I don't have time to start until Sunday and it seemed unfair for me to "start" a review and not actually start it for a few weeks when someone might pick have picked it up in the interim. ] (]) 19:22, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks so much! ] (]) 19:27, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

== Splitting sections ==

===Historical figures: politicians ===

In Historical figures: politicians at ], I have spun out American figures into "Historical figures: politicians - United States". Considering that over half of the articles were American figures, this seemed to be the logical split. There were some Hawaiian and pre-American Revolution figures that I made judgement calls on where to place, so a second look is appreciated. ] (]) 20:44, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

:] and ] seem to be Canadian, ] British, aside from that the rest seem reasonably placed. If the pre-US figures on the East coast are included, it doesn't seem misleading to include pre-US Hawaiian figures. Are there other Robert Whites we could promote? ] (]) 15:34, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
::I moved Armstrong, Parlby and Philipson to the general section. I included pre-US figures on the east coast if the majority of their biography concerns their governance of the colonies. Hawaii was its own civilization and if it wasn't a US state it would probably be considered part of Polynesia/Oceania. I moved Hawaiian figures to US politicians if a significant part of their governance took place when the US controlled the area. I am still open to moving some figures if consensus is otherwise. ] (]) 15:42, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Nothing stopping anyone considering Hawaii part of Polynesia/Oceania now! Anyway, from a casual reader POV, I would expect them to expect Hawaiian figures in the United States subsection. Anachronism has its place in navigation, and history was what it was, and now is what it is. ] (]) 15:46, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

===Splitting "Historical figures: other"===
I have spun out European figures from "Historical figures: other", which was about half of the listings in that category. I invite editors to take a look and fix any errors I have made. Thanks, ] (]) 20:26, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

:Oh, thank you! I wanted to bring up the historical figures other category - I feel like the vast majority of entries are inproperly placed there. I scanned through and there were lots of political activists and officials that I feel are better placed somewhere else. Additionally, I think there's some which could be spun off into their own category - "Criminals and assassins" def. seems like it could be its own category of historical person, for instance. <small> ] (]) (it/she) </small> 22:08, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
::If you want to shift historical figures within that page (ie, not to another GA list) I encourage you to be bold, it's not the most curated structure. (Same for anything in Music.) ] (]) 03:57, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
:::{{re|Generalissima}} ] was someone who I think should be moved, though I do not know which section to put him in (his talk page has him listed in Sports and Rec, but I think he was mostly known for being a conservationist and entertainer). As for new history sections: I agree with CMD. I think criminals is a good idea as it makes the section smaller. I also agree with music, but that might be a discussion for a new section below. ] (]) 16:03, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

====Historical figures: bureaucrats and administrators split?====

After looking at the articles left over in Historical figures: other, another split might be bureaucrats and administrators. This could be defined as government officials who were never elected to their position (and are therefore not politicians). Thoughts? ] (]) 22:00, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

:I think that'd be a good idea. One final category of "sort-of-politicians-but-not" could be activists, which I've seen a lot of in that category. <small> ] (]) (it/she) </small> 22:34, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
::{{re|Generalissima}} After going through the "other" category (again) I think an "activist, revolutionary, anarchist and suffragette" category would be appropriate. ] (]) 02:57, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Bit of a mouthful - I think "Activists and revolutionaries" encompasses all four <small> ] (]) (it/she) </small> 04:31, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
::::{{re|Generalissima}} Works for me. ] (]) 15:15, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
::I have created the "bureaucrats and administrators" category per this discussion. My next step is to go through the "other" category and move biographies to more appropriate categories. ] (]) 02:57, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

== New editor incorrectly starting GANRs ==

{{u|Velthorian}} has opened three GAN reviews in the past 24 hours, and passed and failed one each without any actual review. Can those articles be put back in the queue (especially bcs the upcoming GAN backlog drive encourages the review of older GANs more), and someone help them understand the ] on how to review properly. I have asked them before on one of the review ] and {{u|Remsense}} has also msged them on their talk page. ] (]) 13:38, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

:Given discussion has already been opened, I have reset ]. Of course, if Velthorian reopens that GAN it can be taken out of the queue again. ] has already been reset. ] has not started, so let's see, it can be G7ed. ] (]) 14:17, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
::@] @], Thank you for bringing this up! My nomination for UNICEF has been active since March 2024, and has been in the "oldest unreviewed good article nominations" box for a number of weeks now. Is there any way that this article could not go through the whole queue again? I understand if that's not possible, its just really unfortunate because of how long the nom had waited. Cheers! ]] 14:48, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
:::It has been reinserted in its old position in the "queue" (in effect, it never left the queue) ] (]) 14:57, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
::::@] Thank You! 🙂 ]] 15:06, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

== Nonsensical review ==

I believe {{yo|Infoadder95}}'s ] of ] to be nonsensical. Despite the review claiming otherwise, every single claim in the article is backed up. The review's Lack of Neutrality section accuses the article of containing several quotes that it simply doesn't have. Could someone else have a look?--<span style="background:#FF0;font-family:Rockwell Extra Bold">]]]</span> 22:38, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

:seems like a pretty clearly Chat-GPT generated review. <small> ] (]) (it/she) </small> 22:48, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
:I think we can add ] to that list as well, as it seems to reference a bunch of things that aren't actually in the article. For example:
:* {{tq|Add more inline citations to the "Notable residents" and "Cultural significance" sections, as some claims lack direct sourcing.}} - ] doesn't have sections with either of these names, nor is any of the content lacking direct sourcing.
:* {{tq|- **Cultural Impact:** While the "Cultural significance" section touches on Tudor City's appearances in media, it could delve deeper into how it has influenced perceptions of urban living in New York City.}} - As mentioned above, this article doesn't have a "Cultural significance" section. It does, however, have a "Critical reception" section, which does include some commentary about that exact topic.
:* {{tq|However, certain phrases, such as "masterpiece of urban planning," could be perceived as promotional.}} - That phrase does not appear in the article.
:{{pb}}As such, can someone take a look at this as well? I suspect this may have been an LLM-generated review. &ndash; ] (]) 23:07, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
::I would support banning from the entire GA process editors who use LLMs to generate their reviews. I agree that the claims of unsourced claims in the Swim School review are directly contradicted by a brief look at the article and its history, and the wording of the Tudor City review looks canned and generic. At the least, some explanation here by Infoadder95 would be warranted. Further scrutiny of Infoadder95's other edits beyond GA may also be a good idea. , for instance, looks like others I have seen involving the use of an LLM to copyedit paragraphs, in some cases making the wording more promotional. I note that Infoadder95 has a current GA nomination, for ]. —] (]) 00:01, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
:::I am sorry if the article does seem like an LLM, but due to me not being to able to code in Wiki-text, and me not being able to use the visual editor in talk pages or when making reviews so I have to take the help of AI to turn my review into wikitext so it can be used in the article talk page. So some of the passages may seem like "Generic" and "AI generated", due to AI despite being given clear instructions to not alter the content.
:::If the majority opinion is against my review, I might be able to revise it, this is my first time reviewing nominees so I might make mistakes. If you have issues with specific portions of my review we can discuss it, or even ask for the consensus of other editors as well ask for a second review.
:::And to reply to the last part of your part of our message, I don't use LLMs for copyediting purposes or editing articles, if you suspect me of such, I am unable to do anything but wait patently. ] (]) 00:08, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
::::I agree with David. You have no business reviewing GAs if your ability is so lacking that you must rely on a text generator to do the work for you, especially when you're not even bothering to make sure that it hasn't hallucinated something. &spades;]&spades; ] 00:13, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::Now that the use of LLM for the reviews has been admitted, we should at least cancel both reviews and restore the two articles to the queue with their original nomination dates. —] (]) 00:16, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::Thanks for not suggesting exiling me in the barren land of banned accounts ] (]) 00:19, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::I thought I could take part in January Backlog drive but this experience has taught me otherwise, thank you for your patience fellow Wikipedians. ] (]) 00:21, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
::::@], despite these flawed reviews, I wanted to thank you for your honesty. Although editors shouldn't be using large language models for good article reviews (or really, for any kind of content review), hopefully this can be a learning experience so the same mistake isn't repeated in the future. ] (]) 03:43, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::Thanks ] (]) 12:45, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Thanks for your suggestion, I think refraining from reviews till I get a bit seasoned is the best option for me now, I might as well spend some time time learning wiki-text.
:::If you suspect that I lack the capability to review articles and write quality reviews, you are mistaken but if you think that I lack the ability to use wiki-text and edit the source, then you are absolutely right. ] (]) 00:18, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
::::{{u|Infoadder95}}, please nominate both reviews above for ], to aid cleanup of the errors. Thanks. ] (]) 00:51, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::Ok ] (]) 00:55, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::I have deleted them both. You tagged them G11 (the wrong tag), which could have caused a problem if someone else got to them first and didn't understand why they were tagged, but fortunately that didn't happen. —] (]) 01:22, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

{{ping|Infoadder95}} you just "reviewed" ] in the same manner? May I ask why when you said less than 24 hours ago that you "I think refraining from reviews till I get a bit seasoned is the best option for me now"? ] (]) 17:38, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

:I did not use LLMs this time, I copied the wiki-text from my sandbox and pasted it into the sub talk page. And what is your criticism of my review now, that it does not meet your standards or that it was done by me. Is it wrong according to Good article criteria or you just hate me. Please highlight what did you meant by "same manner".
:And how am I supposed to get seasoned without reviewing, if the people on the talk page don't object and nominator/s don't object what is the problem I may ask. And do you think I am rubber stamper or someone just afraid to fail a nominee after my last encounter, If so you should read the ] and also don't forget to read the ] and come and tell me If I violated something and also read ], and tell me if there is something from here present in my review. If the nominators/s have a problem or two I am obliged to listen and reopen the review.
:And lastly, what is your purpose to stalk me? ] (]) 18:00, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
::Nobody is stalking you, but when someone publicly says "I'm not going to do " and then immediately goes back to doing the thing, it's not a great look. &spades;]&spades; ] 18:02, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
:::@] Great, so what should I do, should I never do a review again in my life? I have a question; what is wrong with my review on ], please I need your opinion so I can improve reviews next in line if I get any ] (]) 18:09, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
::::You have really got to stop putting words in peoples' mouths. No one has said you can never do another review ever in your life. You yourself said you would be refraining until you were "seasoned", yet you immediately did another review! There is a lot of space between "review again immediately" and "never review again", and waiting even a few weeks would have put you in a position of much less judgement. &spades;]&spades; ] 18:19, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::Yes, {{u|Infoadder95}}, all editors are supposed to ] - which you are not, by asking me why "I hate you" and "am stalking you", which seems to be casting ]. And you also said you would not review before learning, and try to understand what the issues with your reviews were. ] (]) 18:30, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::I have been issued a warning on my talk page for using LLMs on ] which I did not, yes I did use them on the 2 reviews before but I completely wrote this one myself, what seems to be the issue. ] (]) 18:35, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::I have replied to that below.
:::::::As for why you have warned of LLM usage- even in the case you didn't (which seems weird, as some of the links are missing, which seems unlikely to be done by a human hand), you have copied the format of your last two reviews, which is why they seem LLM generated, even if they might or might not be. ] (]) 18:38, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::Ok I quit reviewing, this is probably not a task for me. ] (]) 18:37, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
::I'll tell you how the review does not meet the criteria in some time if you want, but I would like to address the other points. "or you just hate me."- I do not, I just brought it up bcs it's wrong according to the criteria- you list issues in the review which very much mean that the article does not meet the criteria yet, or would be if some, if not all, of them were not incorrect. You get seasoned by reading the criteria and instructions properly and seeing other's people reviews.
::I'm not stalking you, I was just checking what reviews have been passed/failed today till now as there has many incorrect reviews the past few weeks. ] (]) 18:09, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
:::@] Ok please tell me what is wrong with my review, me listing issues does not mean that the article does not qualify, instead they are the areas of improvement. Let me ask you, if you deem that one citation from one section of the whole article is unreliable or does not support the claim it is next to, will you fail the whole well written article or just bring it up so it can be addressed. Or another example; if the lead section is good but it can be a bit shorter, will you just fail the whole article.
:::And please don't forget to tell me that what is wrong with my review. ] (]) 18:16, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
::Minor-ish issues: you do not need to explain the GA criteria, just have to say they pass or fail bcs of this or that reason. And you should not highlight your reviews with a background colour, it's distracting.
::Major issues- you have passed it despite you saying there are issues. (added after your reply) yes, bring it up, let it be fixed, do not just pass the article, as it very clearly states in the instructions, and what you would know if you had checked other reviews.
::major issue 2: travolta is mentioned in ref 2 for the first sentence. The garfield cite is Variety- which is reliable, (and which you have also misplaced from the review, as its blank there). I might be able to find more, but the review is written badly, and it's hard to check what is and what isn't a problem. ] (]) 18:26, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Thanks for highlighting, I think I should not probably not review again, and I think it is for the better of Misplaced Pages and it's community. ] (]) 18:39, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
::::You may return, if you read and understand the ] and have checked how a reviews are supposed to work. Though probably not for a few weeks or maybe months. Misplaced Pages will always be grateful to all editors who can do whatever they are doing correctly. ] (]) 18:43, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
::::@] There is no need to make this personal or be self-depricating. When you edit on a public space like Misplaced Pages, people are going to point out your mistakes. Responding to critisism is a lifelong skill that takes awhile to learn. The best thing you can do is acknowledge your mistakes, clean up your mistakes, educate yourself, do better in the future, and move on. Maybe you're not quite at a place in your Misplaced Pages editing where you can contribute to qaulity articles. And that's okay. But know your limits. ]] <sup>(])</sup> 20:59, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::Thanks ] (]) 14:38, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
I forgot this earlier, but could someone reset the review to it's original state with the original date, to ensure it gets a proper review. ] (]) 20:57, 25 December 2024 (UTC)


:Done, although it's a weird one given it was a pass. If the problems raised are correct and it was a fail, I would not have put it back in the queue, so hopefully they will be addressed. ] (]) 01:36, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
== Million Award? ==


== A streamlining of the GAN review process? ==
I'm working on an award for editors who bring high-traffic articles to GA or FA level, which I'm tentatively calling the Million Award. My goal is to create a fun incentive for editors to work on Misplaced Pages's most-read content, which is often neglected because of the difficulties in improving it. (An important inspiration here is "]", which has some good facts and figures about this).


I was looking at some old nominations today that were under review, to check if any could be eligible for the January backlog drive (there are two, and I have pinged the reviewers there)- and I saw many reviews that were abandoned: there had not been a single comments in these reviews for months in many cases. This, plus the above two topics of new reviewers incorrectly starting reviews (and many similar cases in this talk page's archive) was making me wonder if we could make some changes to the process. Some of the changes could include- reviews without comments for a long time could also be seen in the report sub-page (or somewhere more prominent), a change in the template to show on the talk page when a review was started (just like it shows when a nom occurred), some co-ordinators to give at least a cursory glance to reviews: bad reviews might still slip through, but they would very much reduce in quantity. We can't just rely on the nom and reviewer, as even 3rd parties might like to help make it reach GA by nom-ing or reviewing it, and the whole process to ask so on the talk page and wait (which in many cases also sometimes lead nowhere) turns many off. I know some of the changes would be hard to implement, especially bcs of the needed eyes and hands, but I think at least some changes could be made. ] (]) 07:59, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
The three tiers of the award would recognize editors who successfully promote articles with an estimated quarter-million, half-million, or million annual views. (Estimated is a key word here, as this award would not be strictly supervised or regimented--it's for editor encouragement only). This would include almost all topics at ] as well as popular contemporary topics. Recent qualifying articles would include ], ], ], ], ], ], and ].


:There seem to be two issues here. I'm not quite yet sure how to tackle "substandard reviews", but here are my thoughts on abananded reviews.
You can see the full proposal at ], though the graphic design still needs to be done. Since this award would most commonly be given to GAs, I thought I'd ask here for feedback. Any thoughts, objections, or dire warnings before I move this to article space? Is anyone interested in helping to design the award? Thanks to all, -- ] (]) 12:35, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
:* I certainly agree that we need a better way to track apparently abananded reviews. Currently, ] shows where the reviewer is inactive for a certain number of days. (I don't know anything about bots but) I suspect it would be fairly easy to change this to number of days without an edit on review page, which will make it easier to track editors who have abandened reviews but are still active (which is a much bigger problem; and no point having both). ({{ping|Mike Christie}} who operates the bot which updates this page)
:I think that it sounds like a great idea. ] (]) 18:51, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
:*Would it be possible to add a section for review's which haven't be edited for a certain number of days onto the ], again so we can track potentionally abananded reviews. ({{ping|Wugapodes}} who operates the bot which updates this page) Yes, we already have a section for reviews lasting over seven days. But some reviews will legitamtly last over seven days. And this section is also overpopulated with reviews that were temporily abandened. (i.e. the review is now actively ongoing). This makes it difficult to see the wood from the trees.:*I think we should be more aggresive with following up on reviews. I think that if a review has not been touched for (picking these time frames out of thin air) 14 days we provide a message on the review page, tagging the reviewer, with a message where we chase up the review and '''if they have not reaffirmed their commitment within 7 days the review will be considered abananded and reset inline with the recommendations at ]'''. If they reaffirm their commitment and don't follow through we will also just reset the nomination. If we hardcode that into the instructions it will also (hopefully) rectify part of the problem and enbolden nominaters who feel their review has stalled.
::A great idea- I'd certainly be happy to link this award with the WikiCup, which also offers large amounts of points for highly important topics (though we judge importance in a slightly different way). (Might I also suggest that you allow people to remove themselves from the list if they so wish? That's one of the things that caused such problems at the Four Award.) ] (]) 19:59, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
: ] (]) 14:32, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Good idea, but I don't think anything less than 1 million annual page (2740 daily) views is high traffic. I don't work in the high traffic area and I have some that probably get a 1/4 million.--] <small>(]/]/]/]/])</small> 20:14, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
::True, and I was thinking also a separate page to list the GANRs with these issues- like inactive noms or reviewers are listed on WP:GAN, but it needs to be searched, which while each, could be made more straightforward. ] (]) 20:09, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
::::I rarely even review high-traffic articles. However, I know that ] became very difficult due to a lot of outside editors, which discouraged the nominator. ] was one I reviewed and watched. I also watch ]. Those are articles that are difficult to get in shape and keep in shape. Down below 3000 page views, not so much. You should focus on million and multimillion, IMO. Otherwise, you will just be giving out awards to people who do articles. You should be focussing on rewarding the difficult ones.--] <small>(]/]/]/]/])</small> 20:22, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
:A good idea, and one that can learn lessons from recent controversy by viewing itself as a barnstar and taking itself no more seriously. ]] 20:38, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
::::Thanks, everybody. I've gotten positive feedback in some other forums, too, and will proceed in some fashion when I design (or get someone else to design) the graphic and userbox for it. I don't know if that'll be a day from now or a month; we'll just have to see.
::::@J Milburn and Resolute, that's definitely my intention; I want this to be as informal as possible. I'll make that explicit in the instructions.
::::@Tony, I agree to an extent, and am still debating that issue with myself. But I'm hoping that awarding a more common lower level will inspire people to go for the elite higher level. ~650 daily views (a quarter million views annually) would still put an article in at least the top 10% of GAs, so far as I can tell. Unscientifically clicking through 20-30 random nominations just now, most had only 20-50 daily views; none had more than 200 daily views. For every ] or ], there seem to be about 10-20 ]s. -- ] (]) 20:46, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
:::::I don't know which is my most heavily trafficked, but I don't have many. ] (137K page views in last 90 days) is up there and it has few high traffic issues. Neither does ] (120K), ] (105K). Rewarding me for these would be wrong. There are no issues. I watch a lot of high page view articles and understand the issues, but the threshold you want is higher even if the award is infrequent. Maybe creating the award will change the frequency.--] <small>(]/]/]/]/])</small> 20:57, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
::::::P.S. I don't know which subsection you were at when you were sampling. Surely more than 10% of TV shows, Celebrities, Politicians and other subjects in the news and on TV meet your threshholds.--] <small>(]/]/]/]/])</small> 21:06, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
::::::Thinking of my own, ] and ] are usually good for a quarter-million a year. "]" is over a half-million, and ] nears 700,000. Though yeah, that's four out of about 80 GA/FAs. ]] 21:17, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
:::::::I've just been looking through stats of some of my GAs. I think the best one I've got is ] which hits about 750,000 a year. On the theme of roads, ], a pretty well known landmark I'd have thought, gets less than a tenth of that. ] ] ] 21:20, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
:::::::Well, looking at the 10 most-recently nominated TV articles, it looks like 2 would potentially qualify. You have to remember that most TV-category articles are about individual episodes, which get only a few views a day. Out of the 10 most recent Politics articles, only 1 would potentially qualify. Out of the 10 most-recently nominated song articles, none qualify. Out of the 10 most recent album nominations, only 1 would potentially qualify. Out of the 10 most recent sports articles, none qualify. Out of the 10 most recent history articles, none qualify. And this is leaving out some categories like Warfare, Transport, Earth Sciences, Geography, and other categories where high-traffic articles are even rarer. So I feel like 10% seems like a fair estimate; if anything it's probably a bit high. -- ] (]) 21:37, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
:I think this an excellent idea. While taking any article to GA status is worthy, as it provides something a reader can trust to be complete and correct, a sense of priority to the general readership cannot be underestimated. I would dearly love to see ] at GA status again (and at FA status even more), but just don't have sufficient sources to do it justice myself. When I've got ] out of the way, I might see if I can tackle some more general-purpose instrument articles - I might be able to give ] a go as some friends work in a dedicated Saxophone warehouse and have books on the subject coming out of their ears (well, nearly). ] ] ] 20:50, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
::It certainly would provide some sorely needed impetus for someone to work on such important articles as ], ] and ] instead of such elitist drivel as ]s and '']'' or the ]. ] 21:05, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
:::Maunus, can you not imagine a Misplaced Pages where people work on both? Of course there are worthy less-viewed topics and "unworthy" high-traffic topics (though ] easily exceeds the million annual viewers mark, so it might not be the best example to lead off your second list with). Rewarding one kind of article doesn't have to mean deprecating another. -- ] (]) 21:19, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
::::I think they are working on both already.] 21:21, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
:::::Don't get me wrong, I enjoy obscure GAs, particularly if one of the "usual suspects" like Eric, Drmies or Dr Blofeld has had a hand in it, but the man in the street won't understand that, or much care. (If they ''did'', ] wouldn't be a redlink, would it?) ] ] ] 21:38, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
::::::Ditto; I was actually the GA reviewer for Maunus's example of ''Duino Elegies'' and had a great time with it. I also write some ''extremely'' low traffic GAs myself--one or two get fewer than 5 views a day. So I'm not trying to deprecate anybody else's work here, just give an added thanks to people who take on the challenge of editing popular content. -- ] (]) 22:00, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
*How will you be handling spikes. The day ] and the day after it combined for over . Now, ] might get about .--] <small>(]/]/]/]/])</small> 22:39, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
:*I'm just going to leave it up to the discretion of the awarding (or self-awarding) editor. I agree it's a potential issue, but I'm reluctant to make any hard-and-fast rules. Perhaps I'll just add a note to the effect of "common sense should be used in evaluating articles with enormous one-time spikes". With regard to this specific example, I do have a note in there suggesting that main page appearances be discounted; the inauguration article appeared that week in ITN. -- ] (]) 22:47, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
*Slogging through more of my articles, I continue to find the my 1/4 and 1/2 million ones have none of the high volume issues. Among my FAs, ] (175k last 90), '']'' (103k) and ] (65k) all require almost no extra effort to keep in shape. On rare occaissions ] (165k) takes a lot of time to keep in shape. The only article that has high-volume issues is almost 1 million (], 238k). I continue to think the 1/4 mill and 1/2 mill won't really be recognizing anything, if the point is to note the extra effort for high volume articles.--] <small>(]/]/]/]/])</small> 17:33, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
:*I appreciate the input. I'd still argue that improving a popular article like Barry Bonds or ''Cloud Gate'' is an important contribution, regardless of difficulty, but I don't mind that we disagree. Obviously, anyone is welcome to restrict themselves to giving out and accepting whatever tier of the award they feel is worthwhile. -- ] (]) 17:53, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
::*Well during its 4 GAC attempts, Barry Bonds was a little higher volume article and a lot more contentious article than it is today. I am running out of data points for this discussion, but ] (90K) as a high school athlete, has had few high volume issues and was not a contentious article (except when he was on the '']'' cover). Basicallly, I would not award for less than a million, but at a half million some issues pop up. I still think Michelle Obama is my only high volume issue article and oddly there are enough editors to watch it that I don't really get involved in it that much.--] <small>(]/]/]/]/])</small> 15:51, 19 August 2013 (UTC)


== Drive by review ==


Curtosy ping {{ping|CapeVerdeWave|12george1}} I stumbled upon ] while looking at older nominations for the January 2025 GAN backlog drive and found this review. There is no evidence that a review took place here and the review was all done within one edit. While I haven't done a thourough read through of the article in question so it may be fine but the review itself does not seem up to standards. ]] <sup>(])</sup> 16:49, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
===Alternative criteria===
:{{ping|IntentionallyDense}} So you think I should provide more detail to justify the GA? In what areas, if so? I thought the summary seemed sufficient. ] (]) 16:54, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Determining whether or not an article meets the criteria for the award based on the number of views will be difficult, and many people might not want to do the complicated math. An alternative (and much simpler) criteria is: the article promoted to GA/FA status needs to be listed at ].--] (]) 03:03, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
::@] Per ] {{tq|Read the whole article. Understand its sources. Based on the Good article criteria, determine whether the article should be quick failed. An in-depth review must be provided in all other cases. This must include a spot-check of a sample of the sources in the article to verify that each source supports the text in the article that it covers, and that no copyrighted material has been added to the article from the source.}}
:The problem is that a lot of major and popular topics still don't reach Vital Article status (even in the expanded list). Looking just at US History, ], ], ], ], ], ], and ] don't make the cut for the Vital Article list, but these are all the sort of articles I'd want to recognize. -- ] (]) 03:30, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
::The part that is missing in your review is the in depth part. Sometimes there is articles where nothing or very little has to be changed. In this case it is more helpful to say something along the lines of "This article passes criteria 1 because xyz, I know this because I checked xyz" (modify as needed ofc). This is especially important when it comes to the sources. For example I would usually write something along the lines of "this article uses reliable sources without plagerising content, I checked sources 2, 4, 8, 19, and 20 and found no issues".
:I should add, too, that there's no reason your proposed award and my proposed award couldn't simultaneously exist--that is, an award for high-traffic articles, and an award for Vital Articles. (It's kind of ridiculous that the latter doesn't already exist, actually, though I know the Core Contest and WikiCup both recognize this in their own forms.) The two would overlap sometimes but certainly not always. If you're interested in creating a complementary award, I say go for it. -- ] (]) 03:58, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
::However it is very rare for an article to have absolutely no issues. For example the article in question has some overlinking which while not technically in the GA criteria, can reduce readibility and make it look overly technical. For example, countries are linked which is generally not needed. ]] <sup>(])</sup> 17:04, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
::The expanded vital articles list is a joke. This is a perennial discussion we have at the WikiCup, where we judge article importance on the basis of the quantity of interwiki links; the logic being that if an article has been created on dozens of Misplaced Pages projects, then it must be important. (In practice, this has resulted in a large number of points for articles we would intuitively say are "important" ones- last month saw lots of points for ] and ], Nobel laureates, ], the already-mentioned ] and ].) ] (]) 08:55, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
:::Even an article with no issues needs a spotcheck. ] (]) 01:37, 26 December 2024 (UTC)


== Discussion at the Village Pump ==
*Vital articles is essentially an "importance" ranking; the page-traffic approach is essentially a "popularity" one. They often overlap, but there's a lot of vital articles with low traffic and a lot of "non-vital" articles with high traffic. ] (]) 19:13, 26 August 2013 (UTC)


There's a discussion at ] related to good article nominations. ] (]) 22:19, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
== Does a bot fix this? ==


== New reviewer required ==
Greetings. I recently passed the ] for ]. I added {{tl|GA}} to ], as advised in ]. But the {{tl|ArticleHistory}} template at the talk page hasn't been updated, and it's not clear how to do this. Will a bot take care of it, or it is something I should fix manually? Thanks, &ndash; ] <sup>(])</sup> 13:45, 26 August 2013 (UTC)


Hello, could I kindly request a new reviewer for the article ]? The previous reviewer has been inactive for some time and was unable to complete the GA review. Many thanks in advance. ] (]) 05:10, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
:The bot should take care of it. It may not happen right away though.--] (]) 17:29, 26 August 2013 (UTC)


:Unfortunately it looks like the reviewer had a bit more of the article to go. I have reset the nomination. If the reviewer returns they are welcome to reopen the old GAN. ] (]) 05:21, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
== Suspected sockpuppet appears to be sabotaging review ==


== Inactive GAN review ==
A suspected sockpuppet ] has hijacked a ]. This user’s sole contributions to Misplaced Pages have been to conduct this and to start conducting another GA review. To date 90% of his review has been good, but I suspect that his ultimate plan is to spoil the article by sabotaging the review which I believe are borne out by the more recent comments that he is making in his review.


Hi! I nominated the page ] for GA on 25 August and ] started on 1 September 2024. Then, in two days he has gone off-wiki and hasn't returned yet; it's been almost 4 months since his last edit. Can an admin reset the review page, so it could be included in the upcoming backlog drive. (]).
Although he was ] three weeks ago and ten days ago an SPI clerk endorsed CheckUser request, FishGF’s account has not been blocked and he continues to conduct the review in a manner that looks increasing as if he is trying to spoil it. Is there any way that I can get the review completed without his help?<small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 03:58, 27 August 2013 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
:My suggestion would be to simply close the review as a fail and renominate. If you've gotten to the point in the review where you believe the reviewer is a malicious sock (whether or not this turns out to be true), you've passed the point where you can work well together to finish the process out. Since this is an odd situation, I personally wouldn't object to your keeping the same time stamp on the re-nomination so it can keep its place in the queue. -- ] (]) 04:10, 27 August 2013 (UTC)


Courtesy ping: @]. <span class="nowrap"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;color:#50B849;">'''''Vestrian24Bio'''''</span> (<small>]</small>)</span> 13:17, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
== Million Award rollout ==


:I have applied the instructions laid out at ] to the nomination. ] (]) 13:46, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
I've now begun the rollout for the ]. If you complete a review for an article with an estimated annual readership of 250,000 or higher, you can now give the appropriate level of the Million Award and a userbox in addition to a regular barnstar. If an article hits the highest level (a million views/year), you can add it to the Hall of Fame.
:It has been not quite a month since their last edit overall, but combined with the more than 3 months since the last edit to the GAN I have reset the nomination. ] (]) 13:47, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
::Haha, looks like I was beaten to the punch. ] (]) 13:48, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks. <span class="nowrap"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;color:#50B849;">'''''Vestrian24Bio'''''</span> (<small>]</small>)</span> 13:57, 27 December 2024 (UTC)


== Inactive reviews ==
I'll make some effort to track down editors that qualify for the top tier of the award based on past contributions, but my method isn't comprehensive. If you know of anyone who deserves any level of the award--including yourself--please feel free to award/claim it. It'd be a big help! Cheers to all, -- ] (]) 16:23, 28 August 2013 (UTC)


I was checking inactive reviews due to the backlog drive coming up, and I saw the following:
== How to withdraw a GAN? ==
*<s>]: I think the reviewer said they are fine with a second reviewer, but haven't marked it as such. Plus the nom has been inactive for 24 days.</s>
*:Relisted.
*]: The reviewer has been inactive for more than a month, but it does look almost finished, so maybe it should be marked as needing a second opinion?
*:Luckily this review seems substantially complete, unlike a couple of others from the same reviewer, and the reviewer seemed broadly positive on it. If there are no objections, this one might take a light lookover and pass.
*<s>]: Have had no review despite being open for more than 3 months</s>
*:Relisted.
*]: Also have had no review even after being open for three months
*:Reviewer has not edited since the ping three days ago, giving this one a bit more time.
*<s>]: The reviewer barely started and have been inactive for more than a month</s>
*:Relisted.
*]: Had no edits for a month, then had a week of reviewing, and then again has no edits for a month
*:A bit more of a confusing one, probably should be relisted, but I've dropped a note on the reviewer talkpage.
*]: The reviewer had filled out a review template, but has said nothing, or failed it (as they marked in the template), maybe they are inexperienced
*:Opened just this month, dropped a note on the user talkpage.
*]: New reviewer did not review, just marked it GA on the talk page, and has not been editing for two weeks (after having not edited for 3.5 months)
*:This one is a bit weird, usually I'd wait longer given the review just opened, but, given the talkpage action, the lack of activity in general, and the upcoming drive, not opposed to relisting sooner.
Can something be done about these- either marked as needing another reviewer, or reset, as seems best? ] (]) 07:11, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
:Thanks for checking all this. I've relisted three obvious cases in line with my understanding of our precedents, other comments above. ] (]) 08:01, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks. There are even more GANRs similar to the above, but they were all started around less than a month ago, so I only mentioned the most egregious ones. Might do a similar check around the middle of next month. ] (]) 08:08, 28 December 2024 (UTC)


== Inactive nominations ==
How can I withdraw a GAN nomination if I decide an article is not ready after all? --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]&#124;]</sub> 16:03, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
:If it's not being reviewed yet, just delete the nomination from the article's talk page. If it is being reviewed, ask the reviewer to close it as a "fail" so that any comments so far are preserved in the historical record. -- ] (]) 16:14, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
::Not long ago, I walked away from a GA review which just wasn't going anywhere. I just removed the GA review notice on the talk page and (iirc) a bot picked it up and marked it as failed. There's no real shame in doing this as long as you've made the article better. ] ] ] 16:19, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
:::Yes, the GA bot is likely to regard it as a "fail", simple because it is not a "pass", and list it as a "fail" in both its edit summaries (it takes two operations). If there is an already opened review then this closed review will be itemised in the {{tl|articlehistory}} at some future date as a GAN result = "not listed", but if no review exists this event won't be recorded in the article's {{tl|articlehistory}}. ] (]) 20:06, 29 August 2013 (UTC)


Hi! It's great that the bot now mentions when there has been a while since a nominator has made an edit. I usually give a talk message to the user before picking up a review, but I don't think there is a requirement for this as of yet.
== What to do without GA bot? ==


To streamline our nomination process and take out articles which won't ever have their reviews addressed, could we maybe get the bot to ping users after, say 30 days, of their last edit and confirm they still want the review. If they don't return to editing by 45 days (or whatever), then the nomination is pulled.
According to ], Chris is taking a wikibreak and has turned off his bots for the duration, including GA bot. This means that, for an undetermined yet extended period, the nominations page is effectively stuck in time: no new nominations will show up, no closed ones will disappear, no reviews or holds or requests for second opinions will show up. I discovered this by accident when a FailedGA template I added did not cause the nomination to be removed from the GAN page.


The resources of reviews are low enough to not have to address reviews of inactive nominators. An example of this happening manually can be found here: . '''] <sup>(] • ])</sup>''' 15:19, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
I have no idea what might be done—he does give a link to the source code in his message—but I thought it was important to notify everyone here right away. Managing over 400 active nominations strikes me as an impossible task without some sort of automated processes. Best of luck! ] (]) 16:37, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
:Lee, are you thinking of the same approach as suggested ]? Or just for nominations where the review has not yet been started? ] (] - ] - ]) 15:25, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
::Not yet started. Whilst I appreciate it's hard when doing a review for a non-active nominator, I'd like to avoid it before we get that far. '''] <sup>(] • ])</sup>''' 15:30, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 15:30, 28 December 2024

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This is the discussion page for good article nominations (GAN) and the good articles process in general. To ask a question or start a discussion about the good article nomination process, click the Add topic link above. Please check and see if your question may already be answered; click the link to the Frequently asked questions below or search the Archives below. If you are here to discuss concerns with a specific review, please consider discussing things with the reviewer first before posting here.

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This page has archives. Sections older than 7 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III.

Old nomination

I nominated Atlanta Braves in February and now it's the oldest nominee that hasn't been reviewed. I realize it's a pretty big article. Does anyone want to split up the review to make it easier to digest? When I started this process I didn't realize it would take so long. Nemov (talk) 18:46, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

I am planning to start it on Sunday. The only reason I'm starting it on Sunday and not now (or 4 weeks ago) is that I don't have time to start until Sunday and it seemed unfair for me to "start" a review and not actually start it for a few weeks when someone might pick have picked it up in the interim. SSSB (talk) 19:22, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
Thanks so much! Nemov (talk) 19:27, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Splitting sections

Historical figures: politicians

In Historical figures: politicians at WP:GA, I have spun out American figures into "Historical figures: politicians - United States". Considering that over half of the articles were American figures, this seemed to be the logical split. There were some Hawaiian and pre-American Revolution figures that I made judgement calls on where to place, so a second look is appreciated. Z1720 (talk) 20:44, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

George S. Armstrong and Irene Parlby seem to be Canadian, Mabel Philipson British, aside from that the rest seem reasonably placed. If the pre-US figures on the East coast are included, it doesn't seem misleading to include pre-US Hawaiian figures. Are there other Robert Whites we could promote? CMD (talk) 15:34, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
I moved Armstrong, Parlby and Philipson to the general section. I included pre-US figures on the east coast if the majority of their biography concerns their governance of the colonies. Hawaii was its own civilization and if it wasn't a US state it would probably be considered part of Polynesia/Oceania. I moved Hawaiian figures to US politicians if a significant part of their governance took place when the US controlled the area. I am still open to moving some figures if consensus is otherwise. Z1720 (talk) 15:42, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
Nothing stopping anyone considering Hawaii part of Polynesia/Oceania now! Anyway, from a casual reader POV, I would expect them to expect Hawaiian figures in the United States subsection. Anachronism has its place in navigation, and history was what it was, and now is what it is. CMD (talk) 15:46, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Splitting "Historical figures: other"

I have spun out European figures from "Historical figures: other", which was about half of the listings in that category. I invite editors to take a look and fix any errors I have made. Thanks, Z1720 (talk) 20:26, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Oh, thank you! I wanted to bring up the historical figures other category - I feel like the vast majority of entries are inproperly placed there. I scanned through and there were lots of political activists and officials that I feel are better placed somewhere else. Additionally, I think there's some which could be spun off into their own category - "Criminals and assassins" def. seems like it could be its own category of historical person, for instance. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 22:08, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
If you want to shift historical figures within that page (ie, not to another GA list) I encourage you to be bold, it's not the most curated structure. (Same for anything in Music.) CMD (talk) 03:57, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
@Generalissima: Steve Irwin was someone who I think should be moved, though I do not know which section to put him in (his talk page has him listed in Sports and Rec, but I think he was mostly known for being a conservationist and entertainer). As for new history sections: I agree with CMD. I think criminals is a good idea as it makes the section smaller. I also agree with music, but that might be a discussion for a new section below. Z1720 (talk) 16:03, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Historical figures: bureaucrats and administrators split?

After looking at the articles left over in Historical figures: other, another split might be bureaucrats and administrators. This could be defined as government officials who were never elected to their position (and are therefore not politicians). Thoughts? Z1720 (talk) 22:00, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

I think that'd be a good idea. One final category of "sort-of-politicians-but-not" could be activists, which I've seen a lot of in that category. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 22:34, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
@Generalissima: After going through the "other" category (again) I think an "activist, revolutionary, anarchist and suffragette" category would be appropriate. Z1720 (talk) 02:57, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
Bit of a mouthful - I think "Activists and revolutionaries" encompasses all four Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 04:31, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
@Generalissima: Works for me. Z1720 (talk) 15:15, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
I have created the "bureaucrats and administrators" category per this discussion. My next step is to go through the "other" category and move biographies to more appropriate categories. Z1720 (talk) 02:57, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

New editor incorrectly starting GANRs

Velthorian has opened three GAN reviews in the past 24 hours, and passed and failed one each without any actual review. Can those articles be put back in the queue (especially bcs the upcoming GAN backlog drive encourages the review of older GANs more), and someone help them understand the instructions on how to review properly. I have asked them before on one of the review page and Remsense has also msged them on their talk page. DoctorWhoFan91 (talk) 13:38, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Given discussion has already been opened, I have reset Talk:UNICEF club/GA1. Of course, if Velthorian reopens that GAN it can be taken out of the queue again. Talk:Darren Moore/GA1 has already been reset. Talk:Chennai Super Kings/GA4 has not started, so let's see, it can be G7ed. CMD (talk) 14:17, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
@DoctorWhoFan91 @Chipmunkdavis, Thank you for bringing this up! My nomination for UNICEF has been active since March 2024, and has been in the "oldest unreviewed good article nominations" box for a number of weeks now. Is there any way that this article could not go through the whole queue again? I understand if that's not possible, its just really unfortunate because of how long the nom had waited. Cheers! Johnson524 14:48, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
It has been reinserted in its old position in the "queue" (in effect, it never left the queue) SSSB (talk) 14:57, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
@SSSB Thank You! 🙂 Johnson524 15:06, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Nonsensical review

I believe @Infoadder95:'s recent review of Swim School to be nonsensical. Despite the review claiming otherwise, every single claim in the article is backed up. The review's Lack of Neutrality section accuses the article of containing several quotes that it simply doesn't have. Could someone else have a look?--Launchballer 22:38, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

seems like a pretty clearly Chat-GPT generated review. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 22:48, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
I think we can add Talk:Tudor City/GA1 to that list as well, as it seems to reference a bunch of things that aren't actually in the article. For example:
  • Add more inline citations to the "Notable residents" and "Cultural significance" sections, as some claims lack direct sourcing. - Tudor City doesn't have sections with either of these names, nor is any of the content lacking direct sourcing.
  • - **Cultural Impact:** While the "Cultural significance" section touches on Tudor City's appearances in media, it could delve deeper into how it has influenced perceptions of urban living in New York City. - As mentioned above, this article doesn't have a "Cultural significance" section. It does, however, have a "Critical reception" section, which does include some commentary about that exact topic.
  • However, certain phrases, such as "masterpiece of urban planning," could be perceived as promotional. - That phrase does not appear in the article.
As such, can someone take a look at this as well? I suspect this may have been an LLM-generated review. – Epicgenius (talk) 23:07, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
I would support banning from the entire GA process editors who use LLMs to generate their reviews. I agree that the claims of unsourced claims in the Swim School review are directly contradicted by a brief look at the article and its history, and the wording of the Tudor City review looks canned and generic. At the least, some explanation here by Infoadder95 would be warranted. Further scrutiny of Infoadder95's other edits beyond GA may also be a good idea. This diff, for instance, looks like others I have seen involving the use of an LLM to copyedit paragraphs, in some cases making the wording more promotional. I note that Infoadder95 has a current GA nomination, for Pakistani 75 Rupee Commemoration Notes. —David Eppstein (talk) 00:01, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
I am sorry if the article does seem like an LLM, but due to me not being to able to code in Wiki-text, and me not being able to use the visual editor in talk pages or when making reviews so I have to take the help of AI to turn my review into wikitext so it can be used in the article talk page. So some of the passages may seem like "Generic" and "AI generated", due to AI despite being given clear instructions to not alter the content.
If the majority opinion is against my review, I might be able to revise it, this is my first time reviewing nominees so I might make mistakes. If you have issues with specific portions of my review we can discuss it, or even ask for the consensus of other editors as well ask for a second review.
And to reply to the last part of your part of our message, I don't use LLMs for copyediting purposes or editing articles, if you suspect me of such, I am unable to do anything but wait patently. Infoadder95 (talk) 00:08, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
I agree with David. You have no business reviewing GAs if your ability is so lacking that you must rely on a text generator to do the work for you, especially when you're not even bothering to make sure that it hasn't hallucinated something. ♠PMC(talk) 00:13, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Now that the use of LLM for the reviews has been admitted, we should at least cancel both reviews and restore the two articles to the queue with their original nomination dates. —David Eppstein (talk) 00:16, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for not suggesting exiling me in the barren land of banned accounts Infoadder95 (talk) 00:19, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
I thought I could take part in January Backlog drive but this experience has taught me otherwise, thank you for your patience fellow Wikipedians. Infoadder95 (talk) 00:21, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
@Infoadder95, despite these flawed reviews, I wanted to thank you for your honesty. Although editors shouldn't be using large language models for good article reviews (or really, for any kind of content review), hopefully this can be a learning experience so the same mistake isn't repeated in the future. Epicgenius (talk) 03:43, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Thanks Infoadder95 (talk) 12:45, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for your suggestion, I think refraining from reviews till I get a bit seasoned is the best option for me now, I might as well spend some time time learning wiki-text.
If you suspect that I lack the capability to review articles and write quality reviews, you are mistaken but if you think that I lack the ability to use wiki-text and edit the source, then you are absolutely right. Infoadder95 (talk) 00:18, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Infoadder95, please nominate both reviews above for G7 speedy deletion, to aid cleanup of the errors. Thanks. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 00:51, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Ok Infoadder95 (talk) 00:55, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
I have deleted them both. You tagged them G11 (the wrong tag), which could have caused a problem if someone else got to them first and didn't understand why they were tagged, but fortunately that didn't happen. —David Eppstein (talk) 01:22, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

@Infoadder95: you just "reviewed" Talk:Alvin and the Chipmunks (film)/GA1 in the same manner? May I ask why when you said less than 24 hours ago that you "I think refraining from reviews till I get a bit seasoned is the best option for me now"? DoctorWhoFan91 (talk) 17:38, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

I did not use LLMs this time, I copied the wiki-text from my sandbox and pasted it into the sub talk page. And what is your criticism of my review now, that it does not meet your standards or that it was done by me. Is it wrong according to Good article criteria or you just hate me. Please highlight what did you meant by "same manner".
And how am I supposed to get seasoned without reviewing, if the people on the talk page don't object and nominator/s don't object what is the problem I may ask. And do you think I am rubber stamper or someone just afraid to fail a nominee after my last encounter, If so you should read the good article criteria and also don't forget to read the instructions and come and tell me If I violated something and also read this, and tell me if there is something from here present in my review. If the nominators/s have a problem or two I am obliged to listen and reopen the review.
And lastly, what is your purpose to stalk me? Infoadder95 (talk) 18:00, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Nobody is stalking you, but when someone publicly says "I'm not going to do " and then immediately goes back to doing the thing, it's not a great look. ♠PMC(talk) 18:02, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
@Premeditated Chaos Great, so what should I do, should I never do a review again in my life? I have a question; what is wrong with my review on Alvin and the Chipmunks, please I need your opinion so I can improve reviews next in line if I get any Infoadder95 (talk) 18:09, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
You have really got to stop putting words in peoples' mouths. No one has said you can never do another review ever in your life. You yourself said you would be refraining until you were "seasoned", yet you immediately did another review! There is a lot of space between "review again immediately" and "never review again", and waiting even a few weeks would have put you in a position of much less judgement. ♠PMC(talk) 18:19, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Yes, Infoadder95, all editors are supposed to asssume good faith - which you are not, by asking me why "I hate you" and "am stalking you", which seems to be casting WP:Aspersions. And you also said you would not review before learning, and try to understand what the issues with your reviews were. DoctorWhoFan91 (talk) 18:30, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
I have been issued a warning on my talk page for using LLMs on Talk:Alvin and the Chipmunks (film)/GA1 which I did not, yes I did use them on the 2 reviews before but I completely wrote this one myself, what seems to be the issue. Infoadder95 (talk) 18:35, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
I have replied to that below.
As for why you have warned of LLM usage- even in the case you didn't (which seems weird, as some of the links are missing, which seems unlikely to be done by a human hand), you have copied the format of your last two reviews, which is why they seem LLM generated, even if they might or might not be. DoctorWhoFan91 (talk) 18:38, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Ok I quit reviewing, this is probably not a task for me. Infoadder95 (talk) 18:37, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
I'll tell you how the review does not meet the criteria in some time if you want, but I would like to address the other points. "or you just hate me."- I do not, I just brought it up bcs it's wrong according to the criteria- you list issues in the review which very much mean that the article does not meet the criteria yet, or would be if some, if not all, of them were not incorrect. You get seasoned by reading the criteria and instructions properly and seeing other's people reviews.
I'm not stalking you, I was just checking what reviews have been passed/failed today till now as there has many incorrect reviews the past few weeks. DoctorWhoFan91 (talk) 18:09, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
@DoctorWhoFan91 Ok please tell me what is wrong with my review, me listing issues does not mean that the article does not qualify, instead they are the areas of improvement. Let me ask you, if you deem that one citation from one section of the whole article is unreliable or does not support the claim it is next to, will you fail the whole well written article or just bring it up so it can be addressed. Or another example; if the lead section is good but it can be a bit shorter, will you just fail the whole article.
And please don't forget to tell me that what is wrong with my review. Infoadder95 (talk) 18:16, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Minor-ish issues: you do not need to explain the GA criteria, just have to say they pass or fail bcs of this or that reason. And you should not highlight your reviews with a background colour, it's distracting.
Major issues- you have passed it despite you saying there are issues. (added after your reply) yes, bring it up, let it be fixed, do not just pass the article, as it very clearly states in the instructions, and what you would know if you had checked other reviews.
major issue 2: travolta is mentioned in ref 2 for the first sentence. The garfield cite is Variety- which is reliable, (and which you have also misplaced from the review, as its blank there). I might be able to find more, but the review is written badly, and it's hard to check what is and what isn't a problem. DoctorWhoFan91 (talk) 18:26, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for highlighting, I think I should not probably not review again, and I think it is for the better of Misplaced Pages and it's community. Infoadder95 (talk) 18:39, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
You may return, if you read and understand the instructions and have checked how a reviews are supposed to work. Though probably not for a few weeks or maybe months. Misplaced Pages will always be grateful to all editors who can do whatever they are doing correctly. DoctorWhoFan91 (talk) 18:43, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
@Infoadder95 There is no need to make this personal or be self-depricating. When you edit on a public space like Misplaced Pages, people are going to point out your mistakes. Responding to critisism is a lifelong skill that takes awhile to learn. The best thing you can do is acknowledge your mistakes, clean up your mistakes, educate yourself, do better in the future, and move on. Maybe you're not quite at a place in your Misplaced Pages editing where you can contribute to qaulity articles. And that's okay. But know your limits. IntentionallyDense 20:59, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Thanks Infoadder95 (talk) 14:38, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

I forgot this earlier, but could someone reset the review to it's original state with the original date, to ensure it gets a proper review. DoctorWhoFan91 (talk) 20:57, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Done, although it's a weird one given it was a pass. If the problems raised are correct and it was a fail, I would not have put it back in the queue, so hopefully they will be addressed. CMD (talk) 01:36, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

A streamlining of the GAN review process?

I was looking at some old nominations today that were under review, to check if any could be eligible for the January backlog drive (there are two, and I have pinged the reviewers there)- and I saw many reviews that were abandoned: there had not been a single comments in these reviews for months in many cases. This, plus the above two topics of new reviewers incorrectly starting reviews (and many similar cases in this talk page's archive) was making me wonder if we could make some changes to the process. Some of the changes could include- reviews without comments for a long time could also be seen in the report sub-page (or somewhere more prominent), a change in the template to show on the talk page when a review was started (just like it shows when a nom occurred), some co-ordinators to give at least a cursory glance to reviews: bad reviews might still slip through, but they would very much reduce in quantity. We can't just rely on the nom and reviewer, as even 3rd parties might like to help make it reach GA by nom-ing or reviewing it, and the whole process to ask so on the talk page and wait (which in many cases also sometimes lead nowhere) turns many off. I know some of the changes would be hard to implement, especially bcs of the needed eyes and hands, but I think at least some changes could be made. DoctorWhoFan91 (talk) 07:59, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

There seem to be two issues here. I'm not quite yet sure how to tackle "substandard reviews", but here are my thoughts on abananded reviews.
  • I certainly agree that we need a better way to track apparently abananded reviews. Currently, Misplaced Pages:Good article nominations shows where the reviewer is inactive for a certain number of days. (I don't know anything about bots but) I suspect it would be fairly easy to change this to number of days without an edit on review page, which will make it easier to track editors who have abandened reviews but are still active (which is a much bigger problem; and no point having both). (@Mike Christie: who operates the bot which updates this page)
  • Would it be possible to add a section for review's which haven't be edited for a certain number of days onto the Good article nominations report page, again so we can track potentionally abananded reviews. (@Wugapodes: who operates the bot which updates this page) Yes, we already have a section for reviews lasting over seven days. But some reviews will legitamtly last over seven days. And this section is also overpopulated with reviews that were temporily abandened. (i.e. the review is now actively ongoing). This makes it difficult to see the wood from the trees.:*I think we should be more aggresive with following up on reviews. I think that if a review has not been touched for (picking these time frames out of thin air) 14 days we provide a message on the review page, tagging the reviewer, with a message where we chase up the review and if they have not reaffirmed their commitment within 7 days the review will be considered abananded and reset inline with the recommendations at WP:GAN/I#N4a. If they reaffirm their commitment and don't follow through we will also just reset the nomination. If we hardcode that into the instructions it will also (hopefully) rectify part of the problem and enbolden nominaters who feel their review has stalled.
SSSB (talk) 14:32, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
True, and I was thinking also a separate page to list the GANRs with these issues- like inactive noms or reviewers are listed on WP:GAN, but it needs to be searched, which while each, could be made more straightforward. DoctorWhoFan91 (talk) 20:09, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Drive by review

Curtosy ping @CapeVerdeWave and 12george1: I stumbled upon Talk:1873 Atlantic hurricane season/GA1 while looking at older nominations for the January 2025 GAN backlog drive and found this review. There is no evidence that a review took place here and the review was all done within one edit. While I haven't done a thourough read through of the article in question so it may be fine but the review itself does not seem up to standards. IntentionallyDense 16:49, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

@IntentionallyDense: So you think I should provide more detail to justify the GA? In what areas, if so? I thought the summary seemed sufficient. CapeVerdeWave (talk) 16:54, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
@CapeVerdeWave Per Misplaced Pages:Good article nominations/Instructions Read the whole article. Understand its sources. Based on the Good article criteria, determine whether the article should be quick failed. An in-depth review must be provided in all other cases. This must include a spot-check of a sample of the sources in the article to verify that each source supports the text in the article that it covers, and that no copyrighted material has been added to the article from the source.
The part that is missing in your review is the in depth part. Sometimes there is articles where nothing or very little has to be changed. In this case it is more helpful to say something along the lines of "This article passes criteria 1 because xyz, I know this because I checked xyz" (modify as needed ofc). This is especially important when it comes to the sources. For example I would usually write something along the lines of "this article uses reliable sources without plagerising content, I checked sources 2, 4, 8, 19, and 20 and found no issues".
However it is very rare for an article to have absolutely no issues. For example the article in question has some overlinking which while not technically in the GA criteria, can reduce readibility and make it look overly technical. For example, countries are linked which is generally not needed. IntentionallyDense 17:04, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Even an article with no issues needs a spotcheck. CMD (talk) 01:37, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

Discussion at the Village Pump

There's a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Village pump (idea lab)#Dealing with drive-by reviews of GA related to good article nominations. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 22:19, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

New reviewer required

Hello, could I kindly request a new reviewer for the article Halimah Yacob? The previous reviewer has been inactive for some time and was unable to complete the GA review. Many thanks in advance. Pangalau (talk) 05:10, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Unfortunately it looks like the reviewer had a bit more of the article to go. I have reset the nomination. If the reviewer returns they are welcome to reopen the old GAN. CMD (talk) 05:21, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Inactive GAN review

Hi! I nominated the page 2024 Men's T20 World Cup for GA on 25 August and User:Vkwiki100 started reviewing it on 1 September 2024. Then, in two days he has gone off-wiki and hasn't returned yet; it's been almost 4 months since his last edit. Can an admin reset the review page, so it could be included in the upcoming backlog drive. (I also posted about this here in October).

Courtesy ping: @IntentionallyDense. Vestrian24Bio (TALK) 13:17, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

I have applied the instructions laid out at Misplaced Pages:GAN/I#N4a to the nomination. SSSB (talk) 13:46, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
It has been not quite a month since their last edit overall, but combined with the more than 3 months since the last edit to the GAN I have reset the nomination. CMD (talk) 13:47, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
Haha, looks like I was beaten to the punch. SSSB (talk) 13:48, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
Thanks. Vestrian24Bio (TALK) 13:57, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Inactive reviews

I was checking inactive reviews due to the backlog drive coming up, and I saw the following:

  • Talk:Sleeping Beauty (1959 film)/GA3: I think the reviewer said they are fine with a second reviewer, but haven't marked it as such. Plus the nom has been inactive for 24 days.
    Relisted.
  • Talk:Jonna Adlerteg/GA1: The reviewer has been inactive for more than a month, but it does look almost finished, so maybe it should be marked as needing a second opinion?
    Luckily this review seems substantially complete, unlike a couple of others from the same reviewer, and the reviewer seemed broadly positive on it. If there are no objections, this one might take a light lookover and pass.
  • Talk:IMac (Apple silicon)/GA1: Have had no review despite being open for more than 3 months
    Relisted.
  • Talk:Andhra Pradesh/GA3: Also have had no review even after being open for three months
    Reviewer has not edited since the ping three days ago, giving this one a bit more time.
  • Talk:Amos Yee/GA1: The reviewer barely started and have been inactive for more than a month
    Relisted.
  • Talk:Mating of yeast/GA2: Had no edits for a month, then had a week of reviewing, and then again has no edits for a month
    A bit more of a confusing one, probably should be relisted, but I've dropped a note on the reviewer talkpage.
  • Talk:June/GA2: The reviewer had filled out a review template, but has said nothing, or failed it (as they marked in the template), maybe they are inexperienced
    Opened just this month, dropped a note on the user talkpage.
  • Talk:Yang Youlin/GA1: New reviewer did not review, just marked it GA on the talk page, and has not been editing for two weeks (after having not edited for 3.5 months)
    This one is a bit weird, usually I'd wait longer given the review just opened, but, given the talkpage action, the lack of activity in general, and the upcoming drive, not opposed to relisting sooner.

Can something be done about these- either marked as needing another reviewer, or reset, as seems best? DoctorWhoFan91 (talk) 07:11, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for checking all this. I've relisted three obvious cases in line with my understanding of our precedents, other comments above. CMD (talk) 08:01, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
Thanks. There are even more GANRs similar to the above, but they were all started around less than a month ago, so I only mentioned the most egregious ones. Might do a similar check around the middle of next month. DoctorWhoFan91 (talk) 08:08, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Inactive nominations

Hi! It's great that the bot now mentions when there has been a while since a nominator has made an edit. I usually give a talk message to the user before picking up a review, but I don't think there is a requirement for this as of yet.

To streamline our nomination process and take out articles which won't ever have their reviews addressed, could we maybe get the bot to ping users after, say 30 days, of their last edit and confirm they still want the review. If they don't return to editing by 45 days (or whatever), then the nomination is pulled.

The resources of reviews are low enough to not have to address reviews of inactive nominators. An example of this happening manually can be found here: . Lee Vilenski 15:19, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Lee, are you thinking of the same approach as suggested here? Or just for nominations where the review has not yet been started? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 15:25, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
Not yet started. Whilst I appreciate it's hard when doing a review for a non-active nominator, I'd like to avoid it before we get that far. Lee Vilenski 15:30, 28 December 2024 (UTC)