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May 2013

Welcome to Misplaced Pages. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, your addition of one or more external links to the page Gardens of Babur has been reverted.
Your edit here to Gardens of Babur was reverted by an automated bot that attempts to remove links which are discouraged per our external links guideline. The external link(s) you added or changed (http://www.flickr.com/photos/66871453@N05/sets/72157633508120143/) is/are on my list of links to remove and probably shouldn't be included in Misplaced Pages. If the external link you inserted or changed was to a media file (e.g. an image file) on an external server, then note that linking to such files may be subject to Misplaced Pages's copyright policy and therefore probably should not be linked to. Please consider using our upload facility to upload a suitable media file.
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Kajaki Dam

Hi Fareed. I replaced the image for Kajaki Dam. While the image you used has a better resolution, it does not show the actual dam which the previous image did. For the main image of the article in the infobox, you want the reader to see the dam. The only time a picture of the lake goes in the infobox is when we have no picture of the dam itself. The picture currently in the infobox shows the dam and the power station. It works great. Please do not replace it again. If you feel the other picture is better than please explain.--NortyNort (Holla) 12:39, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

The article is primarily on the dam, the reservoir is a by-product of the dam. If the article were on Kajaki Lake, I could see your image as more suitable. Your image, a picture of the lake and tips of the dam and spillway, isn't the main impression you want to give to readers of Kajaki Dam. With the image of he dam in the infobox, you can then see all the specifications for the dam below which best describe the dam, not the reservoir. As far as how recent the picture is, all your image shows is a full reservoir but no major changes in the dam itself. It isn't markedly different. As I stated above, the only time you use the image of a lake is when you don't have one of the dam. There are plenty of articles on multi-purpose dams (like Kajaki) and the image of the dam is used. Examples: Hoover Dam, Grand Coulee Dam, Three Gorges Dam, etc. I opened a discussion at Talk:Kajaki Dam as well.--NortyNort (Holla) 18:53, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

The image of choice for the infobox in such cases as this is the one that shows more of the dam and its immediate surrounding (spillways, reservoir, and power stations). The 2004 image you like is being too specific. Viewers and readers want to look at the entire Kajaki project in the infobox. You can see so many other examples in other dam infoboxes. They can look down at the 2004 image that you like in the history part.--Fareed30 (talk) 19:03, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

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June 2013

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DRA Army divisions and continuance after 1992

I refer to this edit. How are we supposed to build the histories of the individual divisions of the DRA army, and their history after 1992, if you remove the numerical designations ? STOP removing the designations !! Buckshot06 (talk) 08:07, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

First of, be civil with others. Secondly, you do not own Misplaced Pages. I've noticed your anti-ANA POV-pushing and please try to relax with that. What is DRA army? I have no idea what you're telling me, after 1992 there was no national army in Afghanistan until 2002.--Fareed30 (talk) 10:54, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for your response Fareed30. It's good we can open a dialogue. Honestly I'm hurt by your saying I have an 'anti-ANA' POV. Would you kindly enlighten me on which specific examples of my POV you're talking about? My general line is to get the best specific academic writing on the subject - usually Antonio Giustozzi of LSE - and add that, in line with Misplaced Pages's policy of using peer-reviewed academic materials as among the best sources we have.

WP:SOURCE specifically says '..Where available, academic and peer-reviewed publications are usually the most reliable sources, such as in history, medicine, and science. '

Secondly, DRA army was the army of the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan, from 1977ish to 1992. Working from Giustozzi and others, it is clear that division and brigade designations originally first used in the 1977ish-92 period persisted after 1992; the referenced note in the article regarding corps designations makes this clear. Maybe I have not be clear enough on my intentions - some time from now, we should aim to have an article on every unit that served the Afghan Army from 1980 onwards, and how they 'demodernized' (that's a quote from Giustozzi: The Demodernization of an Army: Northern Afghanistan 1992-2001) into the less structured groupings of the 1990s, until the Tailban took over in 1996. That would then enable a thread to be drawn from the 17th Division of the DRA Army in 1988, say, to the 17th Division that fought that skirmish in 2004. But not if the division designation is removed !!

Does this explain what I mean clearly? If not, I'll try and put it another way. Kind regards Buckshot06 (talk) 07:07, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Lionhead99

Let me know if you spot any others, as I'm probably less busy than Moonriddgengirl! Dougweller (talk) 10:29, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Hi

Help me find good images, maps, sources etc. to improve and expand List of Pashtun empires and dynasties. You spend a lot of time on Commons, so find and add relevant pictures and maps relating to Pashtun dynasties to the list if you have time. Mar4d (talk) 13:12, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Never mind, I have added some images. If you can find better ones, you can replace the ones that are currently used. Mar4d (talk) 15:46, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Ethnicity of the Kapoors

That's an interesting one. I am not sure about this one, because although Peshawar is a mainly Pashto-speaking city, it had a Hindko population since long before the time of partition. The Hindkowans are often called 'Punjabi Pathans' since they are seen as an overlapping group between the two. The following source mentions Kapoors as Hindko-speakers. Mar4d (talk) 13:18, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

I agree, but if Anil Kapoor describes himself to the world as "Pathan", which is an obscure term, then we just mention it in Misplaced Pages as is. As for "Punjabi", this has always and still is a geographical term. Anyone who is born in Punjab or live according to Punjabi culture then he/she (regardless of ethnicity) may be considered a Punjabi. At the same time, if a Punjabi is born in Pashtun-dominated area (Pashtunistan) and live according to Pashtun culture then he/she (regardless of ethnicity) is considered a Pashtun. This applies to Anil Kapoor's father and that's the reason why Anil describes himself as Pathan.--Fareed30 (talk) 15:35, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

If he has indeed described himself as a Pathan, it probably has something to do with his family being Pashtunized rather than them being ethnic Pashtuns by blood. Being Pashtunized doesn't rally make you Pathan, as I am sure Pashtun scholars would agree :) But anyway, that article doesn't bother me, I am only having this discussion out of interest. It would be good if you can add a reference on the article for his Pathan connection. Mar4d (talk) 15:44, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

That's my point, "Pathan" is not ethnicity, it is just a name that was created at some point and applied to people living in the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa (KP) area. About Pashtuns, they are a mixed people (i.e. Aryans, Greeks, Indians, Turks, Arabs, Pathans and Persians) who developed into a group known in the past as Afghans but today as Pashtuns (in South Asia as Pathans). The elder Kapoors all have that natural Pathan features, i.e. KP looks, as distinct from the common Indian features. One has to admit that they were fluent in Pashto and lived according to Pashtun culture, at least to some extent because you cannot live in Peshawar without doing this.--Fareed30 (talk) 16:15, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

The thing is that he is punjabi or hindko by ethnicity as kapoors are by every detail a khatri caste. he describe himself pathan and he mentioned peshawari aswell which clearly depicts he is hindko ..his daughter his brother everybody know they are punjabi but they lived in peshawar so he called himself pathan by culture that is he mentioned his moustache..tell me any pashtun who has kapoor surname..also hindus in afghanistan are called hindki meaning hindko..and madhu jain is a stupid women in her article she has written that they were pathan and he spoke hindko even his love for hindko was that he made a hindko movie too..no pashto movie..madhu jain doesnt even know where lyallpur was she mentioned it between rwp and peshawar.also in her same book randhir kapoor has called thmselves deep rooted punjabis. they are just under identity crisis like in india every khan is pathan but thats not the case like feroz khan is tanoli i.e tanoli is a mughal barla tribe but living in peshawra makes them pathan too or just the khan surname. do u consider every khan to be pathan than my great great granddad was khan too but i know i m not pathan neither was he.. in pakistan people know not every khan is pathan .. prithvi raj kapoor was born in lyallpur and then moved to peshwar . so clearly depicts one thing that he was punjabi but pathan by culture or may have had generation back mixture of punjabi pathan blood. do u think niazis in mianwali are punjabis than i can take kapoor as pathan as imran khan many time has refereed himself as seraiki but that doesnt change the fact that he is pathan from father side and has seraiki blood too but he is pathan — Preceding unsigned comment added by Saladin1987 (talk • contribs) 08:10, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

the thing is kapoor is punjabi caste and i have placed alot of sourced material from different sources but you have just got one sources a youtube video of anil kapoor and madhu jain book..anil kapoorr dcaughter knows what kapoors are maybe they have 10 percent pashtun blood as you report your kabul thing but still he is punjabi and a wanna be pathan.. and same with other kapoors children are punjabi. Now i will report your two sources against myne different n reliable sources — Preceding unsigned comment added by Saladin1987 (talk • contribs) 19:26, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

Look how authentic your madhu jain book for kapoor is .at first she mentiona pathan thing as prithviraj was a wannabe just by livingin peshawar doesnt change a hindko to a pashtun.. here is the link read this part of her book

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=l3heZ8I-k9AC&pg=PT14&lpg=PT14&dq=randhir+kapoor+deep+rooted+punjabis&source=bl&ots=-7NQGFMe5y&sig=TXx24xIxPKJ7UsO5m6Y8krOtNk4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=TNXyUbiFPMW9kAXWzYDoBQ&ved=0CCwQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=randhir%20kapoor%20deep%20rooted%20punjabis&f=false

Also i never said that prithvi raj kapoor and shammi kapoor mention them as pathans but all their family refers them as punjabis. punjabi by ethnicity but pathan by culture. Regarding pashto, madhu jain wrote it herself , even there was an article for his love for hindko and peshawar search on google urself. mate if u dont wana write punjabi instead write hindko which they were but stop puting pashtun — Preceding unsigned comment added by Saladin1987 (talk • contribs) 20:05, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

look into madhu jain book i.e your source and search punjab and punjabi in it .you will get to know which language they spoke and what were their traditions. in what language his wife talked to him. alot of things just for your info. just search these things. he just used pathan term beacuse hindkowans in peshawar call themselves as pathan but muslim hindkowans are punjabi plus pathans but not hindusSaladin1987 20:17, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

Search in your own book madhu jain one. peshawari punjabi is the language that dilip kumar spoke. hindko is the best term that is to be used but its ur own source u havent read properly . search them mate Saladin1987 20:34, 26 July 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Saladin1987 (talk • contribs)

I have already made myself clear on these edits, kapoor are punjabi and even in ur source just search punjabi and u will come to know what punjabi they are mentioning in madhu jain book. punjabi language that they spoke and punjabi ethnic that they belonged too..by living in peshwar he was only pathan by culture...Saladin1987 13:09, 5 August 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Saladin1987 (talk • contribs)

Removal of sourced content

Please do not remove content or templates from pages on Misplaced Pages, as you did to Women in Pakistan, without giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. That you don't agree with a source is not a reason to remove it, it's a reason to discuss it at the talk page. Your content removal does not appear constructive and has been reverted. Please make use of the sandbox if you'd like to experiment with test edits. Thank you. Jeppiz (talk) 22:35, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Go to Talk:Women in Pakistan.--Fareed30 (talk) 13:30, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

ANI

Hello. There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.Jeppiz (talk) 13:57, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

fardeen khan article

Before reverting back can you explain where did u get the pashtun word from in the sources that you have supplied and where did u get afghanistan term in terms of his paternal grandfather. Where is it written that his paternal grandfather came from afghanistan. Now i wlll revert it if you are not able to answer one of these things

In regards to kapoor before reverting read your own madhu jain source properly and read what i have asked you to search in that . reporting me without solid evidence is gonna get u blocked — Preceding unsigned comment added by Saladin1987 (talk • contribs) 20:53, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

It is a well established fact that Fardeen Khan's grandfather (Sadiq) was an Afghan immigrant who migrated to India and later gave birth to Feroz Khan.

Feroz Khan ... the son of a Pathan Afghani immigrant - ©2013 Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc.

This obviously makes Sadiq the paternal grandfather of Fardeen Khan. Now, what is your problem with erasing Pashtun/Afghan references from the article of every famous Bollywood actor? What you're doing is forgery and if you're a Muslim it's the month of Ramadan, you should stop this.--Fareed30 (talk) 21:33, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

I am muslim but you shouldnt deny the facts that i have shown you . i dont have any problem with pashtun word but pashtun word can be used for only pashto speaking and even his grandfather came from afghanistan , how do u know he is pashtun, he could b pashtun, uzbek, tajik, or mughal..his surname is tanoli.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Saladin1987 (talk • contribs) 02:15, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Your facts? I only follow what published reliable sources mention. None of them mention any "Tanoli", find a reliable source and then add the Tanoli claim. Second, all the sources state that he was Pathan. The Uzbeks, Tajiks, and Hazaras are different ethnic groups. You can click on those pages and read who they are.--Fareed30 (talk) 02:40, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Ok i am fine with fardeen khan article even i can find you dozens which state he is tanoli. Asnwer me about my questions in kapoor section on your talk page.Saladin1987 04:14, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Hello? I'm new here so I don't know how to use Misplaced Pages professionally. I'm guessing you're the admin of the "Ahmad Zahir" Misplaced Pages page? I just wanted to say that Ahmad Zahir wasn't fully pushtun. My father new him, they were friends in Kabul. Ahmad Zahir was of mix both pushtun and tajik, but mostly Tajiki. His father was of mix both pushtun and tajik. His mother was tajik and also Ahmad Zahir didn't know Pashto fully, his Pashto wasn't really well and his great grandparents was of tajik descent as well. and he wrote mostly in Farsi/dari.. and only made few Pashto songs. So it is also obvious.

09:33, 30 July 2013 (UTC)Sami zahir (talk) Sami. Z

In Misplaced Pages this is considered WP:Original Research. You must find a reliable source or sources to support the Tajik claim and everything else that you claim. The sources that are currently provided in the article clearly state that he was Pashtun. In this case, you would need to find sources more credible than the New York Times and his own sister who claims to be Pashtun.--Fareed30 (talk) 13:38, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

§ where does it say that his sister said he was Pashtun? I see no articles about it what so ever, there are no sources I can find about his ethnicity on the webs so how am I suppose to prove to you? The only proof I have is that my father was close Frends with him in Kabul and they used to kite together he has said that he's mix but mostly tajik afghan, he never even claimed he was Pashtun, even in his songs, he sang all in Dari and also grew up in a afghan tajik culture, if you ever get a chance to speak to his sister, I advice you to ask her, her actual enthic background. Plus they don't even have Pashtun face traits or anything. Sami zahir (talk) 09:20, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Sami.Z

Three different reliable sources state that he was Pashtun. He grew up in Kabul and most Pashtuns of Kabul, Herat and Mazar-i-Sharif are used to speaking in Dari language, which is one of the official languages of Afghanistan, but that does not make them Tajiks. Can you describe what "Afghan Tajik culture" is? If you are interested, you may look in the white pages in the DC area for "Zahira Zahir" and call her to to find out what is her and her brother's ethnicity. This is not difficult to do.--Fareed30 (talk) 00:01, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Why dont your write fardeen khan as an afghan actor ..mate i dont get what your problem is people who are indian and were afghan like three hundred years ago are not afghans any more ..i bet if he was ugly you wudnt have done any edits on him.. Saladin1987 13:06, 5 August 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Saladin1987 (talk • contribs)

Fardeen Khan's grandfather was from Afghanistan who belonged to the Pashtun group and that is relevant information. He is Indian but of Afghan descent. India has 1.2 billion people of different backgrounds. The rest of your comment is irrelevant.--Fareed30 (talk) 15:01, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Your post to my talk page

I was on a wikibreak at the time. Is this resolved? Dougweller (talk) 13:43, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I think so. Thanks.--Fareed30 (talk) 23:47, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Giustozzi article from Dec 2009

Should you wish, enable the 'emailthisuser' function on your userpage and I will send you the PDF of Antonio Giustozzi's 'The Afghan National Army - unwarranted hope?' from RUSI Journal, Dec 2009/Jan 2010. Cheers Buckshot06 (talk) 19:45, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Confirmed sock notice

Please review WP:REMOVED. While you are no longer blocked, your sockpuppetry has been confirmed. You may not remove the notice that indicated this confirmation. You will be reblocked if you continue to remove the notice. Toddst1 (talk) 17:58, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Notices belong on talk pages and I reviewed WP:REMOVED but it doesn't address sockpuppet tags on profile pages. The SPI proved that User:Brinkidiom was not me but someone else on a different continent. The tag you're leaving on my personal page is basically telling others to revert my edits. I'm no longer blocked and me using only one other alternative account to edit a few controversial Islam related articles does not amount to abusive use. In fact, it is specifically approved by the community.

• Alternative accounts have legitimate uses. For example, long-term contributors using their real names may wish to use a pseudonymous account for contributions with which they do not want their real name to be associated, or long-term users might create a new account to experience how the community functions for new users. These accounts are not sockpuppets. If you use an alternative account, it is your responsibility to ensure that you do not violate this policy. Valid reasons include: Security, Privacy, Maintenance, Testing and training, and so on...

--Fareed30 (talk) 05:47, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

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pashtun/punjabi sources conflicts

Saladin1987 07:14, 17 September 2013 (UTC)i dont care if prithviraj claimed to be a pathan or not..put him as english as if i care,Also mate except for the madhu jain book there is no mention of pashto speaking as he was not.MAdhujain thinks faislabad is a town between rawalpinid and peshawar,, wow what an info..But he is a hindko speaking person and he made 5 punjabi films no pashto films , he spoke hindko punjabi even his wife use to write him in punjabi through shasi kapoor in ur own sources,, dont put urself in denial that he might have some kind of pathan blood but he was overall a punjabi as his surname is kapoor and pathan was just a mindset that he was carrying,,,also all the young kapoor and randhir rishi and even shashi claims to be a punjabi so well i dont have to prove to u as u urself know the truth , go on to any forum online where this discussion has been carried out but at the end they were called hindkowans or peshawary the fcat he spoke punjabi hindko is clearly mentioned by his mates of peshwar who all are peshwari, tell me one pashtun frend of him als kapooor surname is khatri punjabi surname there are plenty of punjabis in afghanistan too who are kapoors , but they tend to speak dary which clears that they have more right to call themselves pathan than prithvi .. i know there is no point arguing with u as u just think ur facts are correct and u remove all the other sources but soon u will have couple of people who will revert the hindu patahn to peshwary as proved by various sources not just madhu jains bookSaladin1987 07:14, 17 September 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Saladin1987 (talk • contribs)

• From you all I read is just village talk, which is considered gossip, parts of it true and parts of it untrue nonsense. Your first nonsense is the claim that Prithviraj Kapoor spoke using Hindko language but how is that possible when everyone in Peshawar speaks Pashto language? To further prove you wrong, all RSs clearly state that he spoke using Pashto and none even mention any Hindko. The fact is that the original Kapoors were or were part of the Pashtun people, once they left Peshawar and settled in India they adopted a new culture. The articles on the Kapoors need to reflect on that because it is a sourced fact. This is normal in every society and has been happening for ages. Btw, many of the Pashtun people themselves came from other places, from other ethnic backgrounds, and eventually became Pashtunized in a process called Pashtunization. For example, the city of Peshawar was used by many different armies and a major trade hub for the past 2,000 years. There are Persians, Turks, Arabs, Indians, and others who are now identified as the Pashtun people.
• Another important point to add is that the Punjab region was almost entirely a Sikh controlled territory, inhabited by Muslims and Sikhs, but the Kapoors were a minority Hindus. Sikhs traditionally lived in rural areas while Hindus only lived in cities and in this case, Peshawar, which was part of a region that was connected with ancient Afghanistan and Kabulistan. It has been this way for the past 2,000 years. About Hindko-speakers, they are described by some as a branch of Punjabi people but they're not accepted by the Punjabis, and they also don't accept this. Their language is almost the same as Punjabi but everything else about them connects them to the Pashtuns of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.--Fareed30 (talk) 16:40, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

first of all he was born in punjab . secondly he was kapoor , thirdly his brother tweeted i.e shammi-kapoor tweets - @nytimes I have been when young to Lahore and Peshawar. My ancestors were Zamindars of Samundri near Layallpur. My sister Umi is no more http://www.tweetsdekho.com/shammi-kapoor-tweets/55524

Thirdly he is not a pashtun may have had a pathan blood through his mother but not from his father. Hindko people are two types firstly the ones who are of pashtun tribes but speak hindko like bashir bilor while secondly there are people like awan abbasi khatris and jatts who speak hindko and are not pashtuns.Kapoor are khatri people so search on khatris and then tel me,, kapoor are present in afghanistan because khatri kapoors are traders they use tod o trades in times of allahudin khilji (the way people use to call him Afghan because he had adopted customs but in reality they were turkic people) Kapoors might have had pathan blood i dont deny it but he is punjabi , like imran khan he pathan but speaks seraiki so u cant say he is pure pashtun same with prithvi Also khatry people i.e kapoors and peshwar is full of hindkowans, peshwary real people are peshwarys who are mix of punjabi and pashtuns , even i am my mother is tury from parachinar but i think u dont seem to have any knowledge about peshwar , peshwar is in kpk but there are lot more hindko speakers than pashto speakers, Also he acted in punjabi films Kapoor starred in the legendary religious Punjabi film Nanak Naam Jahaz Hai (1969), a film so revered in Punjab that there were lines many kilometres long to purchase tickets. He also starred in the Punjabi films Nanak Dukhiya Sub Sansar (1970) and Mele Mittran De (1972).

no pashto films ok . no pashtun knows punjabi except the ones who are mixed, he is a punjabi with pathan blood in him as through hsi children raj kapoor eyes, but cmon maan u r saying he is not punjabi is like saying niazis are not pashtuns anymore..

I accept ur edits but mate but dont mention ethnicity if there is somekind of doubt,, prithvi raj says he is pathan children all of them randhir rishi shahsi kareena karishma say they are punjabi , its just he was hindu pathan by culture as he himself said it i am fine with it,, but raj kapoor never said it so you shud remove it or else you will get many people like me troubling you but i am not gonna trouble u ..

also if you look at ur own sources in the sources of madhu jain book i guess search where shashi kapoor writes letters to his dad from her mother and the language they use is punjabi even they were living in peshwar, u can use the terms they had origins in peshawar but use they were born in peshwar as origins were in lyallpur but nobody knows where they were bfr that,, At this moment as well afghanistan has got alot of kapoors khatrys hindus and sikhs who are there and also in peshwar there is a street full of hindus but they are not pashtuns maybe part but not full, pashtuns were the ones converted to muslims by ghaznavi punjabis converted later,, Saladin1987 07:40, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Good day — Preceding unsigned comment added by Saladin1987 (talk • contribs) 07:40, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

• You're taking this Pathan issue way too serious and I'm trying to find out why. People (including Westerners) are born in Punjab but it doesn't make them Punjabis. For example, suppose we accept that Ahmad Shah Durrani was born in Multan, Punjab, as what some RSs are claiming, do you think he should be labelled a Punjabi? Durrani has also been to Peshawar and Lahore, so what?
• It's just you claiming that Prithviraj Kapoor wasn't Pashtun. On the other hand, he grew up in Pashtun city, spoke Pashto, and proudly identified himself to everyone in Bombay as Pathan. That obviously makes him Pashtun. Blood connection is irrelevant because anyone can adopt Pashtun culture and eventually become Pashtun. I know Hindko-speaking people, personally and reading about them. They do not identify selves as Punjabis, and scholars always counted them among Pashtuns. Hindko people generally marry with Pashtuns but not Punjabis, and Punjabis also see them as outsiders and don't accept them for marriage purposes.
• Calling him a Punjabi or Khatri is considered unsourced POV and WP:OR. Find RS to support this and then we can discuss that.
• For what purpose would he make Pashto films in India? People involved in movies are in it for money and fame. His career and use of language in films is irrelevant.
• Afghanistan had Hindus at least 1,500 years ago and it still has some. Peshawar, where he was born, has always been known as an Afghan city and strongly connected with Kabul.
• Imran Khan is Punjabi by culture but we have RSs that connect him to Pathan, something he proudly accepts. On the other hand, Prithviraj and son proudly identified selves as Pathan.--Fareed30 (talk) 16:01, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Ok so u accept that he is pathan by culture then i also accept this fact, i never denied it but in imran khan article its mentioned he is punjabi pathan but has pashtun roots, same shud be in prithviraj , i will continue converstaion later — Preceding unsigned comment added by Saladin1987 (talk • contribs) 22:12, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

basically mate he is punjabi but pathan by cukture as he lived there, Also i told u there are two type of hindkos one who marry among pashtuns one who marry among punjabis like awan etc, but u havent got good knowldge abt it,, but prithvi and shami were the ones who are punjabi but pathan by culture,, u shud remove the terms from ethnicity table in the articles,,Saladin1987 22:21, 18 September 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Saladin1987 (talk • contribs)

No, he was Pathan by every definition and the multiple sources available support this. In addition to that, he even looked Pathan and had a noticable Pathan accent in movies. The following is for humour purposes, the latest Kapoor (Ranbir Kapoor) explains that even he is Pathan. --Fareed30 (talk) 01:02, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Mate he is punjabi, i will show u tons of punjabi with those features alrite but the think is pashtuns have that features more but it doesnt mean he is not punjabi,, to u acting as a pathan is pathan then there are lot more movies in which ranbir kapoor worked as a punjabi, do u want me to tell u abt those or many sources where karisma kareena randhir rishi say that they are deep rooted punjabis ,, dnt spew ur own personal claims , he was ppathan by culture and u cant deny it,, so u mean to say all these durranis yousafzais had hindu surnames bfr ,, what r u talking abt ,, he is punjabi but pathan by culture, Only prithviraj kapoor claimed to b pathan and shammi, neaither there is one source where raj kapoor say he is one but he has said he is peshawari and u need to do some research on peshwari people.. if u r punjabi u cant have pathan children and if u rpathan u cant have punjabi children, the thing is even shammi kapoor said his ancestors were zamindars in samundry , pashtuns are not zameendars ok punjabis are , he is khatri now if u wana count khatri as pashtun u r welcome to do so.. i will show u a lot of hindu kapoor who dont even look punjabis and look south indians who are in peshwar so they are not punjabis is just plain crap, Also all the afghanistan cricket team is dark skinned so u wana say they are nt pashtuns..The thing is he had paathan feautues has got nothing to do with his ethnicity, he is punjabi kapoor punjabi khatry his children say that, i accept kapoor in nwfp migjht be mixed a bit but i highly doubt it as no muslim married hindus and pashtuns had become muslims long ago and their surnaes like yousafzai would have been same when they wer enon muslims..

Randhir kapoor : We are actually deep-rooted Punjabis,' says Randhir. 'We follow all the customs at weddings. Even in life, we are old-fashioned.' Ramesh Sippy based some of his characterizations and mannerisms in Buniyad, his epic saga on television of a

Raj kapoor: here he has always spoken punjabi never pashto http://books.google.com.au/books?id=FnyaW9L6cKYC&dq=raj+kapoor&q=punjabi#v=onepage&q=punjabi&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=FnyaW9L6cKYC&printsec=frontcover&dq=raj+kapoor++books&hl=en&sa=X&ei=wqg6UvTeMIuShQekn4GgCA&ved=0CCwQ6AEwAA#v=snippet&q=punjabi&f=false

Shashi kapoor:" Prithviraj even learned to read the Devnagari script just so that he could read his wife's letters to him while he was away in in Lahore ... her letters to him. Recalls Shashi: 'When my mother wrote to my father in Hindi and Punjabi she would make me write the address in English" they communicated in punjabi which pathan does it ,, in ur own sources

Man i know prithvi did identify himself as pathan but they were culturally pathan not ethnically and also this source claims for sure that they are punjabi and hindko people http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_29-12-2003_pg7_25 http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/obituary-of-yash-chopra/1/226400.html

Also he neever spoke pashto but hindko he was born in faislabad so was his dad as shammi states that ancestors zamindars of smaundri so thats it madhu jain knows nothing she doesnt know there is a language called hindko too Keep up ur work but dont edit everyubody prithviraj i am fine with that but raj kapoor never stated it and if u go by his father then thats just pushing the limits

Saladin1987 07:46, 19 September 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Saladin1987 (talk • contribs)

• I had checked these links before and they don't prove anything. So what if Raj Kapoor showed love for Hindko language and once spoke it in a film. Suppose he had love for Spanish language and spoke it in a film does that make him a Spaniard? Your other link is an article about Yash Chopra, a totally different person, and who is the editor Rachel Dwyer? How much does she know about the Kapoor family? Madhu Jain is the leading expert on the Kapoors and she describes them as a "Hindu Pathan family". Dozens of other RSs support this but what's more important is that Prithviraj and his son throughout their life identified selves as Pathans, and that's what they wanted everyone (including you and me) to recognize them as. They don't even mention Punjabi or Hindko.--Fareed30 (talk) 16:00, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Brother lets just accept that i accept him as punjabi and you accept him as hindu pathan when there is no such thing as hindu pathan, hindu in afghanistan are basically migrated khatris all of them but the sikhs are pashtuns because of the sikh empire and they might have converted pashtuns in sikhism not hinduism and might hav married as well. i have got a frend who is sikh pashtun from swat but he is half pashtun he knows he has jatt blood in him too which he is oproud of ,, u provide ur own sources and i will provide mine to wiki india and lets just take a nmeutral point of view from there.

thanx bro i am laughing we both are muslims but fighting over a person who doesnt belong to our religionSaladin1987 22:13, 19 September 2013 (UTC)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Saladin1987 (talk • contribs)  

• You want to turn him into a Punjabi only to fullfil your personal desire. Let me teach you some facts now. The Pashtun (Pathan) group is made up of all types of people, including those who became Pashtunized. They were non-Muslims before the 7th century and their land was connected to the Greater Hindustan region (South Asia/Indian subcontinent). Religiously, they practiced Buddhism, Hindusim and other religions very similar to these. The Hindus living in Afghanistan and Pakistan are very likely remnants of the ancient Hindus because non-Muslims were always allowed to practice their religion freely, and there's no evidence that Muslims left Islam to become Hindus. Also, there is no historical report of Muslims and Hindus clashing over religion. The forced conversion to Islam campaign began in the late 19th century by Abdur Rahman Khan. After that, the British interefered by creating the Durand Line so that Hindus in Peshawar can remain safe but also for other reasons. When the partition of Pakistan occurred in 1947, many of these Hindus felt unsafe and decided to go to India, and that includes the Kapoors of Peshawar. You assume that they came from rich cities like Lahore or Faislabad (Punjab) to settle in a troubled city of Peshawar but that theory is problematic and has no bases. Sources suggest that the forefathers of Prithviraj came to Peshawar from Kabul (capital of Kabulistan), but we cannot elaborate on that since there is also no proof as of yet.
• Just like among other ethnic groups, there is no difference between a Muslim Pathan and a Hindu Pathan, except the religion of course. Muslim Pathans still practice pre-Islamic culture and often give children Hindu era names, especially females.
• "Punjabi" became an ethnicity in recent times, it refers to someone who strictly lives according to Punjabi culture. We cannot decide who qualifies as Punjabi or Pathan. If someone claims to be a Punjabi then we added he/she stated such and such, but when we know that someone's father was Pathan then we have to elaborate by adding another line so a reader doesn't get confused. For example, Kareena may have said she's Punjabi but RSs also mention that she is Pathan through father. The correct words would be "Punjabi of Pathan origin". I'm aware that many Punjabis and Pathans look alike and behave the same. But that doesn't mean they are one group of people when it comes to encyclopedia. One thing you should know is that Pathans are known as "proud of the prouds", meaning nobody is prouder than them. They try never to forget where they came from. For example, as far away as India or even Bangladesh, many use "Khan" name and claim that they have connection to Pathan tribal lands.--Fareed30 (talk) 00:10, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

ANI

Hello. There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Not filed by me, just passing the message. Ishdarian 13:42, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

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Saladin1987

This may be WP:OUTING. Besides if you are referring to Lagoo sab, there might not be any CU data. --SMS 18:18, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Kapoor and Pathan

Would you please self revert your many edits adding Pathan ethnicity to various Kapoor family members? As Fowler has more than adequately demonstrated on Talk:Prithviraj Kapoor, the evidence for Pathan ethnicity of that family is sketchy and dubious. Given the lack of consensus at that discussion, your adding a Pathan ethnicity to various Kapoor family articles is disruptive and tendentious and you should demonstrate your good faith by reverting yourself. Regards. --regentspark (comment) 14:02, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Mis-use of tag

Please do not use the {{dispute}} tag when there is no inaccuracy. If something does not exist in an article then it cannot be inaccurate, although it might be incomplete. Check out the link in the tag itself - WP:Accuracy disputes. - Sitush (talk) 01:56, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

What picture is appropriate for the "Afghan" article?

Please feel free to weigh in on the discussion at Afghan#What picture is appropriate?. --Bejnar (talk) 20:14, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

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Question about editors

Regarding your question on Talk:Pashtun people, yes, you should generally refrain from referring to the nationality or ethnicity of other editors, because it simply doesn't matter at all. Now, you could say something like "this editor continually tries to slant articles to support nationality X/hurt nationality Y", but you would need evidence for that and you probably would need to bring that up on a noticeboard, not in a talk page discussion. A person's ethnicity/nationality should have no bearing at all on their WP activities, assuming the person is following our policies like WP:NPOV. And if they are not following policies, that is the thing they must be criticized for and for which action can be taken. Qwyrxian (talk) 23:48, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the advise but where did I mention ethnicity of another editor? It wasn't necessary for you to add this irrelevant and additional word. I do refrain but the Pashtun people article mainly attracts Pakistanis and Afghans so sometimes (such as in this case) it is necessary to find out who the parties are, so that the matter is quickly resolved. We the editors should not be playing hide and seek type of stuff while editing articles.--Fareed30 (talk) 19:09, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

One editor may not like being called a Pakistani but others such as me want others to know that I'm an Afghan. That way when someone wants to know about us, our 1,000 year old history or about our homeland I can help them.--Fareed30 (talk) 19:27, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Image size

I noticed you re-added specific image sizes to Malala Yousafzai. Per policy at WP:IMGSIZE, using specific image sizes should be avoided whenever possible, because it makes the page much less flexible. Jackmcbarn (talk) 15:44, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

pasthun people page

ok i work with multiple users to look at sources on various pages...etc and you stated that the Joshua project website was not reliable for you probably because i said yours wasnt, its not for you but it is towards wiki, ok yes the world fact gives more specific numbers, yes and they list percentages...etc on the pages, but that is not done continuously every year...etc sometimes one ethnic group leaves more then other and sometimes one group comes in more then other, since the 2012 law in Pakistan stating and ending extensions of foreign visas, especially Afghanistan, and much more that has happened with that group than others, a lot more pasthuns left then others since those numbers were recorded when the population of the country was different, that percentage doesnt apply every year, i didnt change your info, but was just letting you know about it, and the reason why i know about little details that play a role with situations like these is because the users i work with all have a Anthropology background.Columbiax (talk) 00:53, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

I agree that the CIA (World Factbook) often doesn't update its information on countries, especially ethnic groups. It sometimes contains figures that are out of the range from reality but everyone still relies on CIA. About Joshuaproject, I personally believe that it's better than nothing but other editors have determined that it's not a reliable source for Misplaced Pages purposes. The 11 million Pathans in India makes perfect sense given that India has a population of 1.2 billion and historically many Pathans lived there for 100s of years. The 11 million is in line with the 50 million total population of Pashtuns. Thanks.--Fareed30 (talk) 13:33, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Just a note that I answered the same question on my talk page as well, which is that Joshua Project is never a reliable source for ethnographic data. Qwyrxian (talk) 03:24, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Hello! There is a DR/N request you may have interest in.

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Afghan presidential election, 2014

Hi Fareed30, your recent edits to Afghan presidential election, 2014 have not all been constructive. Your edits of today introduced copyrighted information as you just copied the information from the source. I will therefore undo them. Although your edit of 19 October introduced some good content, as saying that the number of candidates had been limited by the IEC, you however also removed the entire list of former potential candidates without explanation and added some new candidates without references to back that up. The list of potential former candidates and the sources which supplied them might be valuable for the article. Please don't remove such content without discussing it first on the talk page. Crispulop (talk) 21:20, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

October 2013

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Retreat from Kabul 1842

You clearly have a personal agenda here, and are arguing for a viewpoint which you have not supported by reliable sources. The one news item you have cited does not make any mention whatever of the events of 1842, or the Anglo-Afghan War at all. At the same time, you continually dismiss other citations, printed works, on grounds of the nationalality or ethnicity of their authors. The fallacies of this approach have been pointed out to you before. You should reviews the core Misplaced Pages policies of verifiability and no original research. HLGallon (talk) 09:58, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

• My agenda is to make sure that the information presented in Misplaced Pages is as accurate as possible and not some kind of propaganda. The BBC News story I cited on Indians in Afghanistan clearly states that Indians from India came to Afghanistan in the 19th century along with the British. This suggests that it was during the First Anglo-Afghan War (1838-42) because that was the first time the British came to Afghanistan with Indians in the 19th century. This is undisputable historical fact backed by 100s of other sources.--Fareed30 (talk) 16:16, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

Then produce these sources. Otherwise, your arguments based on a trifling source are original research. HLGallon (talk) 18:12, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

• You only cited Linda Colley, who assumes that 12,000 retreating Indians camp followers (non-military personell) were killed or forced into slavery. This may sound normal to people in Western countries but to the over 4 billion people of Asia it makes no sense. I and many others want to verify this because it is a major historic event and involves the lives of 12,000 Indians. It's your responsibility to provide to the readers convincing proof and write the event as accurate as possible. Colley's claim could be an anti-Afghan or anti-Pashtun propaganda since I told you that British always viewed Pashtuns/Afghans negatively. Colley is a British nationalist and British historically viewed Pashtun tribes as another low class inferior race of Asia. It's like citing a Taliban or al-Qaeda scholar to explain about what happened in Afghanistan in late 2001 when US and UK forces invaded.--Fareed30 (talk) 16:16, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

You may notice that it was not I who cited Colley. However, your slurs on her integrity, based solely on her nationality, are unacceptable.HLGallon (talk) 18:12, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

Page move: Forward Operating Base Torkham

Good Evening

I see you have moved Towr Kham Fire Base to Forward Operating Base Torkham. What references do you have for the move? Gavbadger (talk) 18:19, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

Good evening, the sources given for the older name is from pre-2007, the name later changed to Forward Operating Base Torkham (FOB Torkham). --Fareed30 (talk) 18:45, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

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November 2013

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Fareed30 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

Hi, I was not notified by the multi-account abuser/edit-warrior Smsarmad (talk · contribs) who filed an SPI on me. That shows what kind of a character he is. I did use more than one account to improve articles in the past but I did tell a number of admins a while ago that I was not going to do that again and I'm only using this one account, admins may do a complete check to see. I had no idea that using more than one account was strictly against Misplaced Pages police because I used to think that Misplaced Pages was like Yahoo or some kind of a social network site but then I learned that it was not so that's when I decided to stick to just one name. I would appreciate it if I'm unblocked, all I do in Misplaced Pages is improve articles and or add or fix image problems. See my contributions please. Thanks.--Fareed30 (talk) 9:30 am, Today (UTC−5)

Decline reason:

Attacking another user in an unblock request is not a good sign. regentspark (comment) 18:05, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

This would make more sense if you had not been blocked on August 20th for the same thing. Any further comments to make? --Anthony Bradbury 17:52, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

• You're right. Back then I used one account to improve the imagebox in Muslim American and African American, and I did that for privacy reasons, but I was exposed anyway, but I didn't edit-war or anything. I didn't create a single account after August 20th, I was and am just using one account. I have no reason to use more than one account, I don't even edit using IP, and I have been civil with all other editors.--Fareed30 (talk) 18:06, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
• I didn't attack another editor, was just noting that he has been convicted of Vandalism, Abuse, Harassment, Sock Puppetry, he was abusing other editor very badly, and yesterday user:BBBAAACCC was doing the same on my talk page and the next day Smsarmad reported me. I have no idea what's going with that.--Fareed30 (talk) 18:11, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Fareed30 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

Let me run this again, I was blocked in August for 2 weeks for abusing multiple accounts, and I had explained to the admins at ANI that I wrongly thought Misplaced Pages was another social network site like MSN, Yahoo, MySpace, Facebook, etc, designed especially for teachers and students but I began reading the rules of Misplaced Pages and learned that it wasn't and ever since then I have not create another account and began improving many articles with just this one account. When other editors see me editing Afghanistan related pages they wonder who I am, some accused me of being a dark-skinned Indian, others accused me of being Afghan/Pashtun POV pusher. I just want to say to those that I'm a white Afghan living in Asia, not rich or poor... I treat everyone equally and I don't support any particular country or ethnic group over another... I like to visit all the countries in Asia and spend as much time there as possible, including Iran... anyway, the latest SPI, which led to this block, shows me making constructive edits to several Afghanistan related pages, it doesn't establish me using other accounts. The Pakistani related pages are constantly edited by many accounts and they all behave the same, use the same style of English and share the same Pakistani ultra-nationalist POVs but why aren't they not accused of being the same person? Is it Misplaced Pages's policy not to allow Afghans to edit but yet allow Pakistanis? So... why am I blocked indefinately? I have seen 100s of other editors abusing multiple accounts purely for disruptive purposes but they were either warned to stop or given only a week's block.

Decline reason:

I see no justification for overturning the block imposed after reviewing the behavioral evidence at SPI. Your comments below, one of which I'm going to remove, make things worse. If you continue to use this talk page to attack other editors, your talk page access will be revoked. Bbb23 (talk) 03:00, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

• So you are an American Afghan (or Pashtun American) living in Asia. Btw this ethnicity is not new as it first struck me when I saw Megan Fox listed on your contributions page, but Thank God, she didn't have to face the usual Pashtun POV. -- SMS 02:17, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
  • Pashtun is ethnicity and Afghan is nationality. I chatted with Megan Fox and told her I have some Pathan roots and she told me that she also has Pathan roots but she was referring to Powhatan, which is different. I meant to write "I'm a white Afghan living in Asia" :)--Fareed30 (talk) 02:42, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

No. How can you say that she was referring to Powhatan? She must have meant Pathan, even her eyes are like that of a Pathan. -- SMS 02:54, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Side note

If I'm going to be indef blocked then User:Smsarmad (SMS), the guy who filed SPI without notifying me, should also be indef blocked. He has been abusing Indian and Afghan editors, creating and using multiple accounts since at least 2008, illegally uploading many images, using proxies, vandalizing Pashtun related, Afghan related and Indian related pages.

• This SPI investigation report from 2007 clearly establishes that he is a disruptive vandal and lives in Islamabad, Pakistan , has used socks and open proxy located in Greece.
• BBBAAACCC (talk · contribs) began calling me dark-skinned Indian followed by cursing everyone, and was edit-warring with everyone, and when BBBAAACCC got blocked, an IP (212.174.135.194) from Turkey (a country next to Greece) began revert-warring in order to keep BBBAAACCC's version of pages.
• As noted by User:UzEE in the above 2007 report, (SMS) connects himself with Pakistan military. I've noticed that many banned socks have been behaving exactly like SMS and uploading copyrighted images (without permission) relating Pakistan's military, see Ironboy11 (talk · contribs). According to this recent revert by SMS, he exposed himself that he belongs to a special community within the Hindkowan group, they generally don't associate Pashtuns, and I notice this in SMS's actions.
• He often uses Islamabad IPs to edit, see , , and and makes other edits by his other socks (concentrate on the name changes in the linksUser:TopGun User:MHDH ) so nobody notices but I do because I get paid for doing this :)
• BBBAAACCC + SMS + TopGun + Ironboy11 + proxies + Islamabad IPs all relate to banned editor Siddiqui (talk · contribs), this light-skinned Pakistani guy, the 'Grand Sockmaster' and mass copyright infringer. Clear Proof: 1 2, 3. He often appeared at Siddiqui article since December 2005, used to edit from USA but now from Islamabad. He has been insulting and attacking Indian editors since at least 2007 and has done his recent Indian attack under BBBAAACCC and proxy IPs.--Fareed30 (talk) 01:47, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

It is not mandatory to inform the suspected sock/master of an investigation neither am I courteous to LTA socks. A friendly advice: watchlist this SPI case page whenever you come back next time with another account as you will have to definitely visit there. -- SMS 02:47, 8 November 2013 (UTC)