| Revision as of 21:16, 21 October 2013 editFlightTime (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Page movers, File movers, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers, Template editors157,114 edits →Creative Concrete Products, LLC: cmt on existing user concern← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 14:15, 10 December 2024 edit undoSYSS Mouse (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers6,152 edits archivingTag: Manual revert | ||
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| {{RFCUsername}} ] ] | {{RFCUsername}} ] ] | ||
| ==Reports== | ==Reports== | ||
| Please remember that this is ''not a vote'', rather, it is a place where editors can come when they are unsure what to do with a username, and to get outside opinions (hence it's named "requests for comment"). There are no set time limits to the period of discussion. | Please remember that this is ''not a vote'', rather, it is a place where editors can come when they are unsure what to do with a username, and to get outside opinions (hence it's named "requests for comment"). There are no set time limits to the period of discussion. | ||
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| <!-- Usernames should be *discussed* with the user prior to reporting here. --> | <!-- Usernames should be *discussed* with the user prior to reporting here. --> | ||
| <!-- Undiscussed reports will be removed summarily. --> | <!-- Undiscussed reports will be removed summarily. --> | ||
| <!-- Please be sure to use the {{subst:rfcn1|username|reason ~~~~}} template: |
<!-- Please be sure to use the {{subst:rfcn1|username|2=reason ~~~~}} template: --> | ||
| <!-- New reports go at the TOP, below this line. --> | <!-- New reports go at the TOP, below this line. --> | ||
| :''Place your report below this line. Please put new reports on the top of the |
:''Place your report below this line. Please put new reports on the top of the list.'' | ||
| ----<!-- Below this one --> | ----<!-- Below this one --> | ||
| === Creative Concrete Products, LLC === | |||
| {{user|Creative Concrete Products, LLC}} | |||
| I'm posting this username here because I do not agree with ] at , This is a blatant username policy violation IMO, comments please. <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS">] <small>(])</small></span> 00:06, 14 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :Perhaps you should invite the user themselves to take part, as they haven't been blocked. ] (]) 01:19, 14 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::{{done}}. <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS">] <small>(])</small></span> 01:32, 14 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Disallow'''. I was puzzled to see this username described as as "Not a blatant violation of the username policy." I think the problem might be the distinction between ] and ]. I now understand that, for a username to be disallowed via UAA, there must be an editing history that links the user to the company. However, as far as I understand, the name does clearly violate username policy. If I'm wrong, correction is welcome. ] (]) 02:19, 14 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::{{comment}} This may be a factor my concerns are ], in my experience this username would have been denied at such places as ] or ]. <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS">] <small>(])</small></span> 02:53, 14 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::{{comment}} "''However, as far as I understand, the name does clearly violate username policy.''" ] ... ] (]) 02:21, 15 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Allow for now''', but keep an eye on it. From ]: "Users who adopt such usernames, but who are not editing problematically in related articles, should not be blocked. Instead, they should be gently encouraged to change their username." ]'']]]'' 02:25, 14 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| **And by "allow" I mean disallow but don't necessarily block, especially since there's only been one edit and it's not in concrete-related areas. ]'']]]'' 19:45, 14 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| *'''disallow''' I'm fine with allowing them the opportunity to just change their name since we're here, but this is an obvious violation of ] regardless of whether they edit in the area of concrete products. If they continue to edit without changing it they should be blocked. ] (]) 17:58, 14 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Allow''' as long as they don't edit anything about concrete products. There is really no other choice if ] is to mean anything at all. If we want the username policy enforced this mechanically, let's just leave it up to the bots and not bother with any of this at all. ] (]) 02:19, 15 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::That's a bit over the top , don't you think? AGF compels us to assume this person is simply ignorant of our policies such as ORGNAME and to give them a chance to bring their username into compliance with that policy. It does not compel us to ignore that violation, otherwise why do we even ''have'' policies? If a user mistakenly believes it is ok to edit an article to reflect their POV, we assume they just didn't know any better, but we don't just let them get away with it, we try to educate them as to our policies so that they are able to contribute constructively. The same principle applies here. ORGNAME is perfectly clear about this sort of thing. ] (]) 18:17, 15 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :::Well, if they're up to good, we could certainly ''suggest'' that they change their name, but I don't think we should compel them to change it. I do distinguish this from ] in that there is with that name. But can we assume that the account was created by the business when its sole edit has been to an article on poetry? Perhaps someone just created the username out of common words, completely in ignorance of the existence of a real business by that name? (See ], a lesson I have never forgotten).<p>In any event I don't consider this a valid RFC as the account under discussion has made only that one edit, four days ago, and while invited to this discussion has probably sensibly decided not to join a conversation about something over their heads in which most of the participants want his or her head. In fact, they have probably decided not to edit Misplaced Pages again, ever, and if I were them and had read the above remarks, I wouldn't blame them as it would be altogether too easy to come to the conclusion that the site is run by people whose ] are, like so many others, a convenient fig leaf for the maintenance of petty bureaucratic fiefdoms.<p>Anyway, since they have shown no continuing interest in being a member of this community, I don't see why a bunch of people with no dog in the fight should continue to waste their time deciding whether they want to let them be part of that community. ] (]) 00:20, 16 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::::I do agree with you that an RFC is premature and/or an overreaction. Normally a good faith effort is made to discuss such an issue with a user first, and we come here only if that discussion fails to resolve the issue and the user in question continues to edit. But if they ''did'' continue to edit the name is clearly a reference to a company, the "LLC" at the end leaves no doubt on that point. You and I have been in the trenches at UAA for a long time andI know we have both seen sometimes over-eager reporting and blocking, but at the end of the day it is not up to us to dictate policy to our liking and I think it is pretty well established that the community does not support using a business name. ] (]) 00:33, 16 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Well, with a bit more knowledge and/or wiki-trawling, you (Daniel) would likely have noticed that "Bravogolfhotel" is merely BGH in the ], not an overt reference to any sort of company (even though apparently there exists one in the Philippines, which is often a source of problematic editors). I do agree, though, that this account that we're discussing here is probably abandoned already. Is there anything in ] that says what we do with stale accounts that don't have any problem edits? I notice that in the section below (Explus.tw), you (Beeblebrox) imply that stale accounts aren't always blocked, although that account was unlike this one engaging in disruptive promotional behaviour. ]'']]]'' 01:06, 16 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::Well, for cases like this, to be honest, it depends on who is patrolling UAA at that exact moment. As a semi-regular admin there I have noticed that it is an area where admins are often stepping on each other's toes, whether they are aware of it or not. So, since Daniel got it and he is probably the most tolerant regular there it just got declined. Another admin might have blocked it or said {{UAA|d}} or {{UAA|wait}} just to see if they ever edited again. In either of those last two cases the report would go to ] for at least a week, unless the user became active again. If they didn't return the report would be deleted during the nest time the holding pen was cleared out. If they did they might agree to a name change, and only if they did ''not'' agree to one would we find ourselves here. So, it's normally a longer road from there to here and now that I think about it it may have been more appropriate for me to just close this than to go ahead and participate in it as it seems the normal preconditions have not really been met. ] (]) 22:48, 16 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Disallow per no shared accounts''' because it confusingly implies that more than one person is now or at some point in the future will edit with the account. Even if this editor never edits anything related to his company, the implication is that the account is an official corporate account whose editor may change over time. ]/<small><small>(])/(])</small></small> 22:36, 16 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::In my opinion and experience a corporate name by itself does ''not'' imply shared use. Many corporations are basically one person in their early days, or someone gets tasked with promoting the company on social media (and then sends me an email asking to unblock the account). However, I'd have blocked it on sight if it were "Creative Concrete Products Marketing and Communications Department"—that's more clearly the sort of name that implies not only shared use but shared use for explicitly promotional purposes.<p>Perhaps we should have asked him if he has any connection to the company before we started this—as it is, I think he's been good and scared from ever editing again, certainly from that account and probably from ''any'' account. Usually in cases where I think there might be potential promotional use, I mark it with an "e" for "keep an eye on". However, most of those accounts start with either tentative user space edits or not-apparent-yet-how-they're-related mainspace edits to some sort of business-related article. Starting out with an edit to an article on a poem is very atypical, and made me think that hey, maybe this person is just using their corporate name while they plan to edit other poetry articles. ] (]) 00:42, 17 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :::From ] (): "Usernames that are simply names of companies or groups are not permitted...." ]/<small><small>(])/(])</small></small> 21:51, 17 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::::As has been noted, this is slightly at odds with "''A user who both adopts a promotional username and also engages in inappropriately promotional behaviors in articles about the company, group, or product, '''can''' be blocked''" (emphasis mine) in ] just above it. I consider ] to be more important.<p>We have to ask ourselves, what are we protecting by doing this? The username policy, or the encyclopedia? We must remember that the purpose of the ''policy'' is to protect the interests of the ''encyclopedia''. ] (]) 21:53, 18 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| *There is a difference between a username ''appearing'' promotional and actually ''being'' promotional. We block for being, not appearing. "Creative Concrete Products, LLC" ''appears'' promotional; we all agree on that. But is it actually? The answer is probably, but we don't know for sure. It ''is'' promotional if the user created the name after an actual company called Creative Concrete Products, LLC. That is certainly the most likely scenario here. But it is also possible that the user was trying to think of a username outside the box, and completely made it up. I've seen folks do it before. Somebody makes a name like "NTox, LLC" to represent themself... there's no actual company involved; it's just an avatar. (Similar example: "]"). Until we know for sure, we talk it out with the user and proceed from there. That's what should have happened here. There should have been no UAA report, no RFCN, just a message to the user inquiring about their name. <small><font face="Tahoma">] · ]</font></small> 06:38, 17 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::{{+1}} ] (]) 21:53, 18 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| * '''Unquestionable disallow''' Flat out violation of pretty much every aspect of the username policy. Indeed, every time they SIGN something, they're promoting their business <span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]]</span> 08:58, 17 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| **But, as NTox says, how do we know that they're actually affiliated with the company and didn't just try to come up with something clever? Their only edit is to a poetry article. CU can't be used to associate this account to the company in Mount Vernon, Washington, USA. I don't know, I do tend to take ] to a bit of an extreme. Honestly, I doubt this is even necessary, though, since I believe either 1) the user has been scared away from editing altogether or 2) they have created another account to edit from without the name of the company. I repeat my question, not to ESL/Bwilkins but to anyone reading this: is there anything in ] or anywhere else in written form (basically other than general consensus by admins at ]) on how to treat stale accounts? ]'']]]'' 09:18, 17 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :::I don't know if there is a written rule anywhere, but in practice we usually don't bother blocking accounts that are not actively editing. If, as is the case here, the username is the only problem, a block does not serve a legitimate preventative purpose if the account is not even being used. However, this is again something that varies depending on who is reviewing reports. Some of the more hard line regulars at UAA will block any account, stale or no, promotional edits or not. It has been my observation that UAA is not consistent and the regulars there, myself included, have more or less just accepted that that's how it is. We often see a report come in, get declined, and then the user is blocked anyway. There seems to be little interest there in discussing these inconsistencies and sorting them out. Earlier this year I opened several threads on the talk page there hoping to smooth some of this out and while that did produce some discussion most of the regular admins there did not particpate at all. it may time for a broader discussion of these issues. ] (]) 15:10, 17 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::* If it's stale, you're right that it doesn't need to be blocked. However, affiliated or not, it's the ''appearance'' of affiliation that would be problematic. <span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]]</span> 18:55, 17 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| *Please "allow" | |||
| :Please let me address all of your concerns over my chosen username. Personally I like it, although I never intended on choosing it to violate policy nor to promote myself or company. I notice your own usernames can be used in novels, product names or companies if so fancied by an individual or group of individuals. I suppose EatShootsAndLeaves could become a popular video game title, then what? Will all of you ban them? I am one that sees the future of Misplaced Pages taking extra steps in the future to do more to simply watch a particular user's actions and call foul if and when they ever violate policies. Perhaps Misplaced Pages already has measures in place to prevent such violations. So I ask, please do not ban me nor ask me to change my username because I can and am willing to help contribute in making Misplaced Pages better. | |||
| :*By the way, you're not blocked anymore, so you can log in and edit from that account. ]'']]]'' 17:18, 19 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :::* User:EatShootsAndLeaves would be covered in a "''Grandfathered''" clause. <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS">] <small>(])</small></span> 21:16, 21 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| *Related to this: . Perhaps allowing them to edit under this name would be sufficient disclosure of ] - is that inherently harmful to the encyclopedia? Yes, I know that I'm more or less proposing to rid ] of "promotional usernames", but IMO it's a valid point. ]'']]]'' 17:18, 19 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :*How would you propose dealing with the issue of shared-, could-be-shared-in-the-future-, and reasonable-readers-would-assume-it-is-shared- and reasonable-readers-would-assume-it-is-the-company-not-the-person-behind-the-words- issues? ]/<small><small>(])/(])</small></small> 17:54, 19 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::*How many normal Misplaced Pages readers (not editors) actually go look at contributions and page history?... ]'']]]'' 21:19, 19 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :::*Barring some kind of study, it would be hazardous to guess. But even assuming it's a low percent, a lot of people read Misplaced Pages. Let's assume conservatively that 10M people read Misplaced Pages in a year, and assume (I think) conservatively that 0.1% of non-editing readers check contributions at least once a year. That's still going to be 10,000 people, which in raw numbers is not small. ]/<small><small>(])/(])</small></small> 04:01, 20 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ===Explus.tw (reopened)=== | |||
| <div class="boilerplate metadata vfd xfd-closed" style="background-color: Moccasin; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;"> | |||
| :''The following discussion is an archived debate of the username below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as ]). No further edits should be made to this section. '' | |||
| <!--Template:Rfcn top--> | |||
| '''User blocked''' despite being stale, by Alexf. ] (]) 18:02, 14 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| {{user|Explus.tw}} | |||
| I consider this name being inappropriate under the policy ] (as equal to shortened address of commercial web page, still clearly referring to commercial company). Used for promotion of commercial company at several language sections of Misplaced Pages within several days: English (nominated for deletion), Russian (posted trice; speedy deleted twice as ExPlus, reposted as Explus under IP, nominated for deletion again) and Chinese - without any proof of notability in any of versions. ] (]) 15:14, 18 September 2013 (UTC) The nomination is reopened (above archived procedural close, not sure if I had to "dearchivate" it instead) since the user in question was notified about two weeks ago, without any reaction whatsoever from him, and his only contributed article was about the Taiwanese company ExPlus (deleted a week ago), thus it's reasonable to qualify the case as promotional-only account. ] (]) 18:06, 1 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Comment/Question''' - User hasn't edited in two weeks, and the promotional article has been removed. Is it worth going through the trouble? ]'']]]'' 19:43, 1 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ** Well, ''Russian'' Misplaced Pages rules do strongly consider such promotional-only accounts to be hardblocked as soon as such use becomes obvious (and, honestly speaking, it was evident almost immediately, including such activity in 3 Wikipedias at the same time); I believe that English Misplaced Pages rules also consider them unappropriate and it's quite unlikely to expect useful/nonpromotional contribution from this account — but of course it's for local admins to decide (just as opinion: policy against spamnames might be pretty useless, if it such cases are generally considered "not worthy going through the trouble" — obviously, such user is likely not to do any more edits if he must be "given enough time before being nominated" and he did not have any intentions within Misplaced Pages except promotion). | |||
| :: Just in case: I would also recommend admins to monitor contributions from user '''YT2013''' if such appears (from more recent request of the same user for a new name in Chinese section where the same article does not have any more proof of notability but is not deleted yet). ] (]) 17:52, 2 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:Red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the entries talk page). No further edits should be made to this page. <!--Template:RFCNbottom--> | |||
| </div> | |||
| ===Explus.tw=== | |||
| <div class="boilerplate metadata vfd xfd-closed" style="background-color: Moccasin; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;"> | |||
| :''The following discussion is an archived debate of the username below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as ]). No further edits should be made to this section. '' | |||
| <!--Template:Rfcn top--> | |||
| The result was: '''procedural close''' Per the notice at the top of the page, you have given the user no time whatsoever to respond to your concerns and you have not informed them of this discussion. Feel free to repost or re-open when those conditions are met. ] (]) 19:05, 18 September 2013 (UTC) | |||
| {{#if:|<div style="display:none;">}} {{#ifeq:{{NAMESPACE}}|Misplaced Pages| |{{error:not substituted|Rfcn1}}<div style="display:none;">}} | |||
| {{user|Explus.tw}} | |||
| :I consider this name being inappropriate under the policy ] (as equal to shortened address of commercial web page, still clearly referring to commercial company). Used for promotion of commercial company at several language sections of Misplaced Pages within several days: English (nominated for deletion), Russian (posted trice; speedy deleted twice as ExPlus, reposted as Explus under IP, nominated for deletion again) and Chinese - without any proof of notability in any of versions. ] (]) 15:14, 18 September 2013 (UTC) | |||
| {{#if:|</div></div>}}. | |||
| :''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:Red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the entries talk page). No further edits should be made to this page. <!--Template:RFCNbottom--> | |||
| </div> | |||
| ===Dalermehndi123=== | |||
| <div class="boilerplate metadata vfd xfd-closed" style="background-color: Moccasin; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;"> | |||
| :''The following discussion is an archived debate of the username below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as ]). No further edits should be made to this section.'' | |||
| <!--Template:Rfcn top--> | |||
| The result was: '''Disallow''' ] (]) 18:32, 11 September 2013 (UTC) | |||
| {{#if:|<div style="display:none;">}} {{#ifeq:{{NAMESPACE}}|Misplaced Pages| |{{error:not substituted|Rfcn1}}<div style="display:none;">}} | |||
| {{user|Dalermehndi123}} | |||
| :The username implies the user is ], a well-known Indian musician; this may be a violation of ]. The user's only edits are to Daler Mehndi–related articles. I notified the user with {{tl|uw-username}} a few days ago but they have not replied. ] (]) 12:21, 7 June 2013 (UTC) | |||
| {{#if:|</div></div>}} | |||
| ::{{nao}}{{question}} Has the user been advised of the option within ] to contact OTRS for instructions to provide verification of their identity if they claim to be the popular person ? <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS">] <small>(])</small></span> 01:36, 25 June 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :::{{tl|uw-username}} links to ], of which ] is one section, so yes, they have been so advised. —] (]) 05:53, 25 June 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :::But they had not edited for a month before this discussion was opened and have not returned while it was underway, so they may not even be aware of this RFC yet. ] (]) 14:25, 28 June 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::::As ] states, it's not unusual for accounts which imply the user is a specific celebrity to be pre-emptively blocked to prevent damaging impersonation. In this case there's a very clear connection between the username and the user's editing interests, and also some clearly disruptive edits (unexplained removal of templates and content, promotional edits, etc.), so it would be safer to block now and continue this discussion if/when the user resumes editing. —] (]) 14:55, 28 June 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::I'm aware of that, but normally this forum is intended to discuss the matter with the user in question, not just report them for blocking as is done at UAA. ] (]) 16:07, 28 June 2013 (UTC) | |||
| *He's edited , a song by ], and . Both were good-faith ''attempts''. The edits to the song were a bit puffy, and the edits to ] were his struggling (and failing) to master the wiki code involved in replacing the existing external links with a new link. This is a good-faith, early days newbie. This is not damaging impersonation. So a preemptive block would be assuming bad faith and over-reaching. We certainly shouldn't assume this is '''''not''''' ]. I'll leave a note on his talk page explaining what he needs to do if his name is not "Daler Mehndi", if his name is "Daler Mehndi", and if he is ]. ] (]) 15:23, 19 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
| * {{UAA|c}} Has anyone noticed that his user page has been cut down twice as G11? It seems like an abandoned account that someone came back to. Nevertheless I would say '''Disallow:''' simply because of the case for user:Ceydaates below which was of a ] case and that was closed pretty quickly as a softerblock. ] ] ] 15:35, 21 August 2013 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Disallow''' - The Dalermehndi123 user page was deleted for promoting Tunak Tunak. Dalermehndi123 additionally has edited under a name that is likely to imply that Dalermehndi123 is (or is related to) ]. The topic Daler Mehndi is an area where other editors, such as ] (blocked), ] (blocked), and ], have edited. Dalermehndi123 stopped editing 7 May 2013, but returned to edit the Daler Mehndi page 1 September 2013 to 4 September 2013, so Dalermehndi123 should be aware of this discussion from the posts on Dalermehndi123's talk page. To protect Daler Mehndi, I think the Dalermehndi123 account should be blocked until proof of identity is provided that Dalermehndi123 has authority from Daler Mehndi to make posts that imply that Dalermehndi123 is, or is connected to, Daler Mehndi. -- ] (]) 13:34, 11 September 2013 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Comment''' - '''Disallow''' (as nominator). The account has resumed activity with a number of problematic edits, including promotional language and copyright violations. They have been uncommunicative with respect to the problematic edits and potentially problematic username. This doesn't reflect well upon Daler Mehndi, so it needs to be established whether the account is operated by or on behalf of the musician. —] (]) 14:01, 11 September 2013 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Disallow and close''' per {{u|Psychonaut}}. The fact that ] without any response, along with problematic edits, indicates they are not really here in a collaborative spirit, whether it is their real name or not. Also, this has been open for 3 months, and really ought to be closed by now. ]] 16:44, 11 September 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:Red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the entries talk page). No further edits should be made to this page. <!--Template:RFCNbottom--> | |||
| </div> | |||
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