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| == Massacres and the Dog on the Tuckerbox == | |||
| {{WikiProject Australia|importance=Low <!-- Wikiproject specific tags --> |Riverina=yes|Riverina-importance=High|place=yes|place-importance=mid}} | |||
| Moved the following from history, where I will copy edit there. Additions from IPs 203.54.186.125 and 203.54.186.125 on 5, 6 and 17 June 2006. | |||
| }} | |||
| :Gundagai is known for an image of a dog on a box. This symbolism is more recently based on a poem about a bullock waggon stuck in the mud near Gundagai pre gazettal of Gundagai as a town in 1838. This bullock waggon carried a load of flour for the European settlers. The flour had to come from the mill at Goulburn. There was a severe drought happening. The flour on the bogged bullock wagon was rifled while the bullock driver was in the nearby hotel and subsequently, the remaining flour was laced with arsenic. More flour was taken from the waggon by Aboriginal people with the end result being there were many deaths. The massacre was heard about in Sydney and was investigated, but no one was able to be held to account. For many years the event was told and retold and a dog figure, representing an aspect of Australian Aboriginal lore, was placed on a stick at the Nine Mile near where the massacre happened. A photo exists of this earlier Dog monument. The story was passed down among long-time Gundagai residents and is still spoken about in Gundagai today but for many years when it was mentioned, people were told not to speak about it. The story was also retold in a popular Australian poem by Jack Moses but from a different, perhaps less challenging, perspective which explained the lingering tale that just would not go away. The known disparity between, and debate about, whether the event happened at the Five Mile or Nine Mile is to do with this. There are archival records documentating this iconic and significant Australian cultural heritage. The Gundagai incident is independent of the Benalla one. The Benalla massacre (if it is the 'Faithfull Massacre)was the one that led to Gundagai being gazetted. I have copies of the original documents of the line of communication being put through to Melbourne after the Faithfull Massacre. The Coolac Massacre story is still well known in Gundagai but not spoken about publically. There is no original research required for the Coolac Massacre as that it happened has never been forgotten in this town. The first poems about the massacre appeared in the 1850s. The monument to the massacre was built in 1932 and that monument is identical to a major Indigenous Ancestral feature. The Gundagai Independent in about October 2005 has some content. The Coolac massacre is currently part of not yet completed archaeological surveying in that area as reported online on ABC News. NSW National Parks have been notified of where the massacre remains were put. This burial area from the 1830s was previously known to National Parks. NSWNP do not release all information they hold. The massacre is spoken of in Gundagai's verse and song, the 'Dog' being 'first man' in Aboriginal culture. There are other supporting documents such as Tindale's letters and others. ''<nowiki>({{fact}}<!--very interesting but need some sources please; note this reads very much like an incident near present day Benalla on 11 April 1838 - were there two or is there confusion?-->(citation requested and comment inserted by AYArktos)</nowiki>'' There were many many massacres of Indigenous people in Australia. I am not Indigenous. My family have lived at Gundagai since the 1840s which is not long after the massacre happened. | |||
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| ==Almost Got Life for Warby Escape== | |||
| --]\<sup>]</sup> 20:50, 17 June 2006 (UTC) | |||
| "Daniel Dugurd, a constable for the district of Bong Bong, stood indicted for permitting a prisoner named William Warby lo escape from his custody on the 18th Nov., 1835. It appeared that Warby had been delivered into his custody, under a warrant issued against him by Mr. W. Dutton, J. P., Yass, upon a charge of receiving stolen cattle. The constable having got intoxicated, the prisoner escaped from him. His Honor, in putting the case to the Jury, left it for them to say whether the constable had allowed Warby to escape through wilfulness or negligence. They found him guilty of allowing the escape through negligence :-Sentenced to pay a fine of 40s., and to be imprisoned for two years. The Judge, at the same time, intimated that, had the Jury found him guilty of wilfulness, he would have felt it his duty to have sentenced him to transportation for life." | |||
| Note citations have been requested. Doesn't mean I don't believe it. It is Misplaced Pages policy though that things are ].--]\<sup>]</sup> 20:58, 17 June 2006 (UTC) | |||
| http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/2206078? | |||
| ==Benjamin Warby== | |||
| ===Verifiability of massacre === | |||
| "BENJAMIN WARBY. On Thursday last, Benjamin Warby was placed at the bar of the Supreme Court, charged with receiving a number of cattle knowing them to be stolen, the property of various individuals. This case has excited considerable attention. A brother of the prisoner was tried and convicted on the clearest testimony at the last Session of the Supreme Court, for cattle-stealing; it appeared on his trial that he had possesed himself of immense herds of cattle, (Bens brother William), in a very short time, but that his character had been so good, that; though all were surprised at the rapidity with which his herds increased, yet were they un willing to suspect him of resorting to, cattle stealing. Through the exertions of Henry O'Brien, Esq., J. P., of Yass, the immense extent of cattle-stealing carried on in that part of the country attracted public attention, and suspicion at last fell on Warby, for it was impossible in any other way to account for the rapidity with which he had amassed so much property in the course of a few years. A cattle-stealer who had long been suspected was at last detected, and to save himself from the punishment due to his crimes, he made disclosures to Mr. O'Brien, before whom he was brought for examination which led to the discovery of a system of cattle-stealing, so extensive in its operations, and so well organised in its various ramifications as almost to seem incredible. From the information thus received, it appeared that (William) Warby was deeply concerned in this trade, which he had managed to carry on for several years, with impunity. The apprehension of the fellow who made these disclosures, together with several others who had acted as agents in these, nefarious transactions; and the apprehension created by the active exertions of Mr. O'Brien, had struck terror to the hearts of the cattle-stealers in the neighbour- hood; and when a warrant was, issued for the apprehension of Warby, it was found that he had taken the alarm and had made his escape. It subsequently appeared that he had made his way to Campbelltown, where his parents reside, and in the neighbourhood of Benjamin Warby, the prisoner then before the Court also resides. Apprehensive that his conviction should follow in the event of his being tried, and his property confiscated to the use of the Crown, he resolved to make all he possessed over to his brother, that he might thus prevent it from falling into the hands of the Government; he came accom panied by his brother to Sydney, to consult Mr. Francis Stephen as to the best means of accom plishing their object. By Mr. S.'s direction a bill of sale was drawn out, and signed in the regular manner, disposing of all his stock, farming utensils, &c. to his brother, for and in considera tion of the sum of two thousand five hundred pounds, for which he agreed to accept bills, payable at various times from three months to three years. Having arranged matters thus they returned to Campbelltown, where William Warby was arrested on the warrant for his apprehension, which had been forwarded from Yass. Benjamin Warby was in attendance at the Court House at Yass on the examination before that Bench when his brother was committed, and was warned by Mr. O'Brien to take care how he meddled with his brother's cattle, which would, in the event of his conviction, become the property of the Crown. He replied, that the cattle were now his own, that he taken legal advice on the subject, and was perfectly safe. Mr. O'Brien told him that there were some more approvers expected who had not yet seen the cattle, and would probably be able to identify numbers in the flock; besides he told them the increase of those cattle which were stolen some years ago were still among them, and ought to remain open for the inspection of the public. (Ben)Warby said that he intended to take none but such as bore his brother's brand, and that there was a clause in the bill of sale securing him from the conse quences of taking such as might be stolen. A few days after, Mr. O'Brien hearing that (Ben) Warby was moving all the cattle from his brother's station and sending some to Sydney for sale, rode over to the station, accompanied by some friends, and warned him again of the consequences of persisting in the line of conduct he was pursuing; (Ben) Warby made a similar reply to his former one, and persisted in doing as he pleased with the cattle. Some of those cattle which (Ben) Warby forwarded to Sydney for the purpose of selling, were discoved to be stolen and claimed as the property of Messrs. Hill and Roberts. (Ben) Warby was brought up at the police, office and committed to take his trial for receiving stolen cattle. After a long trial, he was acquitted by the Jury, as it was evident that his intention was not to receive stolen property, but to defraud the Crown. He was remanded to take his trial for another offence, but subsequently the Attorney-General consented to his discharge on his own recognizance. The Attorney-General in consenting to (Ben) Warby's discharge said, that he understood that it was a regular custom when prisoners were committed to take their trial on charges likely to lead to their conviction and transportation, to purchase their property before the trial, in order to prevent its confiscation to the use of the Crown; and he signified his intention of prosecuting to the utmost stretch of his power, in all cases of this nature which came under his cognizance. The Warbys are both natives of the colony; their parents, who reside at Campbelltown, came originally prisoners of the Crown to the colony, but they have always maintained a respectable character; they have gathered together a considerable property. Their mother has given birth to no fewer than twenty-two children; all natives of the colony, and, until the present occurence, all have behaved themselves well. In addition to the two beforementioned, a charge of cattle- stealing is now it is said under investigation against a younger brother." | |||
| *So far I am not finding anything on the web about this massacre | |||
| http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/31718022?searchTerm=warby natives&searchLimits= | |||
| ==Whabys Creek== | |||
| ** http://www.cat.org.au/forgottenwar/narrandera.html mentions the Wiradjuri wars but not this incident. | |||
| ** http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/constructionmaintenance/downloads/coolac_environreview.pdf discusses a massacre near coolac but in the following terms: "''A local resident provided information about the possibility of an Aboriginal massacre site occurring in the general area between Mingay and Pettit. The reliability and exact location of the massacre site has yet to be determined, however, one unconfirmed suggestion is that it is close to Muttama Creek, or in general proximity of the current highway alignment. As the reliability of the information and definite location of the site could not verified,''..." | |||
| :Given the recent RTA environmental review at Coolac has failed to turn anything up, I am inclined to remove the reference as not meeting ].--]\<sup>]</sup> 21:32, 17 June 2006 (UTC) | |||
| "Whaby's Creek | |||
| <small>Response has been moved here to make sense</small> The RTA content you note is 2004 content so out of date. This is 2006. There have been two new lots of archs since then. | |||
| Sturt's name for the Muttama Creek. Warby had squatted at its junction with the Murrumbidgee, a little north of Gundagai. | |||
| Sturt, Charles, Two expeditions into the interior of southern Australia, during the years 1828, 1829, 1830, and 1831 : with observations on the soil, climate, and general resources of the colony of New South Wales,2vols, London, 1833, vol.1, map. | |||
| Given the site of the massacre wasnt known till this year yet you put up stuff that talks about what was known in 2004. | |||
| Cumpston, J.H.L., Charles Sturt : His Life and Journeys of Exploration, Melbourne, 1951, p.32." | |||
| THIS IS 2006, NOT 2004. What is an ongoing investigative process has progressed to 2006. <small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]) 11:12, 18 June 2006 (UTC+10 hours)</small><!-- --> | |||
| http://www.let.osaka-u.ac.jp/seiyousi/Ghost-Gazetteer/maps/HP/NSW/tumut.htm | |||
| Whaby's Creek features also on several old maps such as some versions of the Arrowsmith maps. | |||
| The RTA review has not failed to find anything to do with this massacre. You are quoting an out of date RTA publication. | |||
| ==Warby's Station== | |||
| remove the Coolac Massacre from here. Wik does not have the skills to have it. I have several citations but am not prteapred to put them here at this stage... or ever now. People can do their own research and I will relese the citations to those who I choose to have them, not you silly lot at it strikes me, here is too silly to deserve to have them. | |||
| <small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]) 11:12, 18 June 2006 (UTC+10 hours)</small><!-- --> | |||
| Where today's Mingay is in the previous district of Lachlan. From M.1.831 Surveyor Stapleton 1833, 'To Tumut River and Warby's station', State Records NSW. The Surveyor General's Maps and Plans. | |||
| *If you wish to contribute to the wikipedia then you need to read our policies on ]. You need to ]. I may have cited a 2004 source - at least I cited something! If there is a more recent RTA review or any other review - please feel free to reference it. No ], no entry in the wikipedia - nothing to do with skills, all to do with ], which is policy.--]\<sup>]</sup> 01:42, 18 June 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ==Mrs William Warby== | |||
| <small>Response has been moved here to attempt to make sense of it and the dialogue</small> | |||
| ::There are numerous poems that cite this massacre. Some will be online. | |||
| It seems that Mrs William Warby and two children went to VDL also on the 'Siren' to help William serve his 14 year sentence that lasted six years. Those two children may have been born at what later became to be named in 1838, 'Gundagai'. http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/4175752? | |||
| ::You should have seen that 2004 date on the RTA material you noted and have realised it was way out of date. | |||
| ==John Warby?== | |||
| ::Use the poems about the massacre as citations but then .... that requires skill in textual analysis to recognise those poems are citations. If you have those skills you will cite them. | |||
| On the 1841 Robert Dixon map, (Map F, 892),there are three Warby names around the junction of the Tumut and Murrumbidgee Rivers. One of these three is for a Run on Adjinbilly Creek where that Creek runs in to the Tumut River. That Run is not at Darbalara or at Mingay. It is east of both Darbalara and Mingay. Dixons map was engraved from the information taken back to Sydney by the explorers and by the Surveyor General Major Mitchell, after his trip through the Gundagai area. | |||
| ::There is a lot of material but it mostly requires particular skills to be able to use so it may be wasted here. | |||
| ==Why== | |||
| ::Whatever, its best the Coolac Massacre is not noted here I now think. I didnt realise wik was so silly as its not a source researchers use. <small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]) 15:39, 18 June 2006 (UTC+10hours)</small><!-- --> | |||
| Why does this 'Graeme Healy' dispute content such as ''Bewuck being the name for the Junction of the ] and ]s''? That is the local Aboriginal name for that area and its recorded in official documents, in content available online, but also by ] the famous Australian author, but is also in recent Aboriginal language dictionaries given to me by a local Aboriginal Elder. Yet this 'Greame Healy' disputes the offical record, a famous author from the same area and Aboriginal people themselves. I also cited the Bewuck content. Placenames are a branch of archaeology. Giving the Aboriginal name for a landscape feature in Gundagai Shire that is cited and is correct should not invite angst from anyone especially in this post 'The Apology to Australian Aboriginal people' era. The other complaints made by 'Graeme Healy' are all as silly such as the entry for the Kimo bunyip etc. That is recorded in correspondence between the famous anthropologist Norman Tindale and by the boss of the ]'s History department and I cited it. If 'Graeme Healy' knows better than those two emminent, highly qualified and respected historians then that is sad. There is also a large and fierce bunyip near Bewuck cited by the same sources. The Darling R./Murrumbidgee R Junction would also have the same as it exhibits the same feature at high river flood time. I likely have access to content that 'Graeme Healy' has no access to some of which I have put here. That does not mean though if some people don't know or have no understanding of some ] and other things that all the world's information and skills not understood by them, should be denied. | |||
| === Coolac bypass hold-up === | |||
| ==Gary Vines the Coolac Massacre Publisher== | |||
| ::From that i have head about this 'massacre' is that a Neville Williams who is a Wiradjuri Aboriginal clams that there was a 'massacre' there (I think he did the same type of thing at West Wyalong trying to stop the Lake Cowal gold mine) so far nothing has been found at the site to prove this. All i know is at the moment a museum is holding up the Coolac bypass. | |||
| ] 01:54, 18 June 2006 (UTC) | |||
| It was Gary Vines the Coolac Masscare publisher in recent times. See: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups&hl=sr#!topic/ozarch/PBYs7TaotSM | |||
| Who is Robert Myers. You do not know much if you think a Museum is holding up the Coolac Bypass. The Coolac Bypass is not held up. It just is not ready to start yet. It will start when the funding is released by the Federal Government, (on 1 July) then after that the preferred tenderer needs to get its complex operations into place so they can start. This preferred tenderer hasnt even be awarded the contract yet so who in your mind is to build the bypass? Noddy? Contractors cant be hired and huge construction jobs cant start if the money to pay them has not been paid in by the governemnt. Those who claim all these other things re a fanciful holdup are having delusions. | |||
| I replied to that slanderous nonsense of Vines on the above URL via his talk page. If he encourages that person who asked him about the Coolac Massacre at OzArch he is encouraging that person to repeat lies that are easily shown to be wrong via the Coolac Archaeological survey documents of which I have copies so will be encouraging that OzArch poster to commit libel/slander of me. Gary Vines and that terrible "physiological" poster above, need to wake up to themselves. Johneen Jones (I am also J Jones believe it or not), - Gundagai. | |||
| Neville Williams is a highly respected Aboriginal Elder who lobbies to have Aboriginal heritage saved or at least recorded. Yes he did lobby re Lake Cowal. Many Australians lobbied re the Snowy Sale because of its heritage aspects. Is there something wrong with saving haritage or is it just wrong if you do it to save Aboriginal heritage??? Please answer that here given you have had a go here re Neville Williams. | |||
| Its not going to cost anyone in Australia if a small plaque is erected somewhere near the Coolac Bypass is it, to note that massacre. After all we mark massacres such as Port Arthur etc so of course we can also note the Coolac one though there has already been a large monument built to it bragging about it going on its inscription.<small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]) 15:39, 18 June 2006 (UTC+10hours)</small><!-- --> | |||
| :::I don't know much? . I never had a go at Neville Williams i just stated on what i know! | |||
| ] 05:50, 18 June 2006 (UTC) | |||
| Well, if u are quoting ABC News, cite it. You wrote it as if it was your own info rather than ABC content. | |||
| "(I think he did the same type of thing at West Wyalong trying to stop the Lake Cowal gold mine) so far nothing has been found at the site to prove this. All i know is at the moment a museum is holding up the Coolac bypass." | |||
| If you think that re Neville Williams, what makes you think 'that'? | |||
| How do you know "nothing has been found at the site to prove this"? What is your authority there? I do have authority re that and again, you are talking twaddle. | |||
| How do you know "a museum is holding up the Coolac bypass"? What Museum and how do you know that??? | |||
| I know you do not have a registered interest in the Coolac Bypass so know what you very obviusly do NOT know. | |||
| Its very sad that when Aboriginal massacres in Australia begin to be talked of, that some jump to disprove them and try to discredit anyone associated with bringing them out into public knowledge. | |||
| Robert you are not going to be hung because of the Coolac Massacre as you were not involved in it, (unless you are Rip Van Winkle perhaps), so why are you carrying on like this??? | |||
| Why do we have to hide these massacres of Aboriginal people in Australia any more????? I know of 4 others around Gundagai but there are probably more. I have documentation for 3 of those and am very confident I will find documentation re the 4th. | |||
| Whatever, putting stuff here is very silly isnt it as I understand what happens here now. All the dont knows from all over dispute content and come out with silly unsubstantiated statements such as you have, and what could be a good site to record stuff, turns into a three ring circus full of ignoramus nonsense. As well, whoever checks stuff here references old, out of date info and announces his/her intention to disallow entries on the strength of Internet information that is way out of date. That more or less means here isnt worth the bother.<small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]) 17:39, 18 June 2006 (UTC+10 hours)</small><!-- --> ''(Note this edit also innapropriately blanked part of the conversation)'' <small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]) 17:53, 18 June 2006 (UTC+10 hours)</small><!-- --> | |||
| === More on Coolac bypass heritage investigations === | |||
| The anon editor has suggested that 2004 references are "old, out of date info". There appears to be no later environmental review than 2004. | |||
| 'There appears' I imagine who checked this did some really wide ranging investigation. If you just looked on the Internet that isnt looking far is it. | |||
| http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/constructionmaintenance/downloads/coolac_environreview_dl1.html There seems no reason to believe that the review was not thorough at the time and that any new information has come to light. | |||
| "There seems to be no reason to believe that the review wa snot thorough at the time ..." | |||
| Time is the operative word here. | |||
| suggests that the heritage study was over 10 years old. However, it is not clear if the RTA or the NSW Department of Environment and Conservation agreed and were prepared to act on the suggestion to redo the heritage study. This article does indicate that Neville Williams was involved in the discussions. | |||
| "A Google search does not turn up any later news items than August/September 2005 and no evidence that any more recent surveys have been done." | |||
| Arkos has used the Internet to do his research. The Internet is not regarded as a reliable research tool so Arktos is using an unreliable source. | |||
| This discussion is too ridiculous. I am sure I can find better to do. Cheerio. | |||
| --]\<sup>]</sup> 10:24, 18 June 2006 (UTC) | |||
| === Reminder of what wikipedia is not: translate "no original research" === | |||
| Although the anon contributer has been referred to ] he or she has still suggested that "''poems about the massacre as citations but then .... that requires skill in textual analysis to recognise those poems are citations''". It is not a matter of skill. Analysing citations to draw conclusions is original research. | |||
| Textual analysis is not original research. Its a skill. Textual analysis is learned in media and literature courses. You cannot do it effectively though if you do not have some knowledge (SKILL) in it that you learn. When poems are read, the interpretation the reader takes from such poems is skill based. No doubt there are some poems listed somewhere on the wikipedia site. I think the 'Illiad' is. A study guide is cited on the Illad site. Guide means guide. | |||
| Please refer to ]. Textual analysis published in a peer reviewed journal would be accepted. Unpublished textual analysis would not be acceptable as a source. | |||
| Misplaced Pages is not responsible or otherwise for the presence or absence of plaques on the Hume highway. | |||
| WHO SAID WIK WAS RESPONSIBLE????? This is gross misrepresentation. | |||
| Nor is it hiding massacres. | |||
| WHO SAID WIK WAS HIDING MASSACRES???? There seems to be a serious problem of comprehension here. That comment was directed at 'Robert' who was inclined to put the worst possible interpretation on what is happening at Coolac in his uninformed carrying on about a museum holding works up, and no results found etc. | |||
| Wik is not the entire topic of conversation on the Internet. Sometimes other subjects and entities other than wik are being referred to in discussions. | |||
| As a result of this sort of nonsense, I cannot take wik seriously. I thought it was an OK resource (but I didnt know much about it) till I got involved in this discussion. | |||
| Wik has been told already the information re the Coolac Massacre isnt suitable for posting on wik so what is 'Arktos' on about? Wik can't handle the Coolac Massacre information because wik has a limited capacity, so it misses out. Thats easy. | |||
| Misplaced Pages will not include information that cannot be verified from ]. Misplaced Pages is not meant as a source for researchers; researchers need original material and they will not, or at least should not, find it here.--]\<sup>]</sup> 10:24, 18 June 2006 (UTC) | |||
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Almost Got Life for Warby Escape
"Daniel Dugurd, a constable for the district of Bong Bong, stood indicted for permitting a prisoner named William Warby lo escape from his custody on the 18th Nov., 1835. It appeared that Warby had been delivered into his custody, under a warrant issued against him by Mr. W. Dutton, J. P., Yass, upon a charge of receiving stolen cattle. The constable having got intoxicated, the prisoner escaped from him. His Honor, in putting the case to the Jury, left it for them to say whether the constable had allowed Warby to escape through wilfulness or negligence. They found him guilty of allowing the escape through negligence :-Sentenced to pay a fine of 40s., and to be imprisoned for two years. The Judge, at the same time, intimated that, had the Jury found him guilty of wilfulness, he would have felt it his duty to have sentenced him to transportation for life." http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/2206078?
Benjamin Warby
"BENJAMIN WARBY. On Thursday last, Benjamin Warby was placed at the bar of the Supreme Court, charged with receiving a number of cattle knowing them to be stolen, the property of various individuals. This case has excited considerable attention. A brother of the prisoner was tried and convicted on the clearest testimony at the last Session of the Supreme Court, for cattle-stealing; it appeared on his trial that he had possesed himself of immense herds of cattle, (Bens brother William), in a very short time, but that his character had been so good, that; though all were surprised at the rapidity with which his herds increased, yet were they un willing to suspect him of resorting to, cattle stealing. Through the exertions of Henry O'Brien, Esq., J. P., of Yass, the immense extent of cattle-stealing carried on in that part of the country attracted public attention, and suspicion at last fell on Warby, for it was impossible in any other way to account for the rapidity with which he had amassed so much property in the course of a few years. A cattle-stealer who had long been suspected was at last detected, and to save himself from the punishment due to his crimes, he made disclosures to Mr. O'Brien, before whom he was brought for examination which led to the discovery of a system of cattle-stealing, so extensive in its operations, and so well organised in its various ramifications as almost to seem incredible. From the information thus received, it appeared that (William) Warby was deeply concerned in this trade, which he had managed to carry on for several years, with impunity. The apprehension of the fellow who made these disclosures, together with several others who had acted as agents in these, nefarious transactions; and the apprehension created by the active exertions of Mr. O'Brien, had struck terror to the hearts of the cattle-stealers in the neighbour- hood; and when a warrant was, issued for the apprehension of Warby, it was found that he had taken the alarm and had made his escape. It subsequently appeared that he had made his way to Campbelltown, where his parents reside, and in the neighbourhood of Benjamin Warby, the prisoner then before the Court also resides. Apprehensive that his conviction should follow in the event of his being tried, and his property confiscated to the use of the Crown, he resolved to make all he possessed over to his brother, that he might thus prevent it from falling into the hands of the Government; he came accom panied by his brother to Sydney, to consult Mr. Francis Stephen as to the best means of accom plishing their object. By Mr. S.'s direction a bill of sale was drawn out, and signed in the regular manner, disposing of all his stock, farming utensils, &c. to his brother, for and in considera tion of the sum of two thousand five hundred pounds, for which he agreed to accept bills, payable at various times from three months to three years. Having arranged matters thus they returned to Campbelltown, where William Warby was arrested on the warrant for his apprehension, which had been forwarded from Yass. Benjamin Warby was in attendance at the Court House at Yass on the examination before that Bench when his brother was committed, and was warned by Mr. O'Brien to take care how he meddled with his brother's cattle, which would, in the event of his conviction, become the property of the Crown. He replied, that the cattle were now his own, that he taken legal advice on the subject, and was perfectly safe. Mr. O'Brien told him that there were some more approvers expected who had not yet seen the cattle, and would probably be able to identify numbers in the flock; besides he told them the increase of those cattle which were stolen some years ago were still among them, and ought to remain open for the inspection of the public. (Ben)Warby said that he intended to take none but such as bore his brother's brand, and that there was a clause in the bill of sale securing him from the conse quences of taking such as might be stolen. A few days after, Mr. O'Brien hearing that (Ben) Warby was moving all the cattle from his brother's station and sending some to Sydney for sale, rode over to the station, accompanied by some friends, and warned him again of the consequences of persisting in the line of conduct he was pursuing; (Ben) Warby made a similar reply to his former one, and persisted in doing as he pleased with the cattle. Some of those cattle which (Ben) Warby forwarded to Sydney for the purpose of selling, were discoved to be stolen and claimed as the property of Messrs. Hill and Roberts. (Ben) Warby was brought up at the police, office and committed to take his trial for receiving stolen cattle. After a long trial, he was acquitted by the Jury, as it was evident that his intention was not to receive stolen property, but to defraud the Crown. He was remanded to take his trial for another offence, but subsequently the Attorney-General consented to his discharge on his own recognizance. The Attorney-General in consenting to (Ben) Warby's discharge said, that he understood that it was a regular custom when prisoners were committed to take their trial on charges likely to lead to their conviction and transportation, to purchase their property before the trial, in order to prevent its confiscation to the use of the Crown; and he signified his intention of prosecuting to the utmost stretch of his power, in all cases of this nature which came under his cognizance. The Warbys are both natives of the colony; their parents, who reside at Campbelltown, came originally prisoners of the Crown to the colony, but they have always maintained a respectable character; they have gathered together a considerable property. Their mother has given birth to no fewer than twenty-two children; all natives of the colony, and, until the present occurence, all have behaved themselves well. In addition to the two beforementioned, a charge of cattle- stealing is now it is said under investigation against a younger brother." http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/31718022?searchTerm=warby natives&searchLimits=
Whabys Creek
"Whaby's Creek Sturt's name for the Muttama Creek. Warby had squatted at its junction with the Murrumbidgee, a little north of Gundagai.
Sturt, Charles, Two expeditions into the interior of southern Australia, during the years 1828, 1829, 1830, and 1831 : with observations on the soil, climate, and general resources of the colony of New South Wales,2vols, London, 1833, vol.1, map.
Cumpston, J.H.L., Charles Sturt : His Life and Journeys of Exploration, Melbourne, 1951, p.32." http://www.let.osaka-u.ac.jp/seiyousi/Ghost-Gazetteer/maps/HP/NSW/tumut.htm
Whaby's Creek features also on several old maps such as some versions of the Arrowsmith maps.
Warby's Station
Where today's Mingay is in the previous district of Lachlan. From M.1.831 Surveyor Stapleton 1833, 'To Tumut River and Warby's station', State Records NSW. The Surveyor General's Maps and Plans.
Mrs William Warby
It seems that Mrs William Warby and two children went to VDL also on the 'Siren' to help William serve his 14 year sentence that lasted six years. Those two children may have been born at what later became to be named in 1838, 'Gundagai'. http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/4175752?
John Warby?
On the 1841 Robert Dixon map, (Map F, 892),there are three Warby names around the junction of the Tumut and Murrumbidgee Rivers. One of these three is for a Run on Adjinbilly Creek where that Creek runs in to the Tumut River. That Run is not at Darbalara or at Mingay. It is east of both Darbalara and Mingay. Dixons map was engraved from the information taken back to Sydney by the explorers and by the Surveyor General Major Mitchell, after his trip through the Gundagai area.
Why
Why does this 'Graeme Healy' dispute content such as Bewuck being the name for the Junction of the Tumut and Murrumbidgee Rivers? That is the local Aboriginal name for that area and its recorded in official documents, in content available online, but also by Miles Franklin the famous Australian author, but is also in recent Aboriginal language dictionaries given to me by a local Aboriginal Elder. Yet this 'Greame Healy' disputes the offical record, a famous author from the same area and Aboriginal people themselves. I also cited the Bewuck content. Placenames are a branch of archaeology. Giving the Aboriginal name for a landscape feature in Gundagai Shire that is cited and is correct should not invite angst from anyone especially in this post 'The Apology to Australian Aboriginal people' era. The other complaints made by 'Graeme Healy' are all as silly such as the entry for the Kimo bunyip etc. That is recorded in correspondence between the famous anthropologist Norman Tindale and by the boss of the Australian National University's History department and I cited it. If 'Graeme Healy' knows better than those two emminent, highly qualified and respected historians then that is sad. There is also a large and fierce bunyip near Bewuck cited by the same sources. The Darling R./Murrumbidgee R Junction would also have the same as it exhibits the same feature at high river flood time. I likely have access to content that 'Graeme Healy' has no access to some of which I have put here. That does not mean though if some people don't know or have no understanding of some ontologies and other things that all the world's information and skills not understood by them, should be denied.
Gary Vines the Coolac Massacre Publisher
It was Gary Vines the Coolac Masscare publisher in recent times. See: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups&hl=sr#!topic/ozarch/PBYs7TaotSM
I replied to that slanderous nonsense of Vines on the above URL via his talk page. If he encourages that person who asked him about the Coolac Massacre at OzArch he is encouraging that person to repeat lies that are easily shown to be wrong via the Coolac Archaeological survey documents of which I have copies so will be encouraging that OzArch poster to commit libel/slander of me. Gary Vines and that terrible "physiological" poster above, need to wake up to themselves. Johneen Jones (I am also J Jones believe it or not), - Gundagai.
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