| Revision as of 20:04, 22 February 2014 editUseitorloseit (talk | contribs)471 edits →Arrest for assault← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 01:36, 28 December 2024 edit undoMaterialscientist (talk | contribs)Edit filter managers, Autopatrolled, Checkusers, Administrators1,994,127 editsm Reverted edit by 2409:40F3:1090:B2E8:8000:0:0:0 (talk) to last version by CewbotTag: Rollback | ||
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| ==Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment== | |||
| == Proposed changes == | |||
| ] This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available ]. Student editor(s): ]. | |||
| We refer to the subject both as Coates and as Ta-Nehisi, apparently to emphasize his youth in the autobiographical work. I propose that we use Ta-Nehisi only to refer to the character, and show "the young Ta-Nehisi" at first use. | |||
| For an encyclopedic approach, I think we need to link or otherwise explain the capitalized Consciousness. | |||
| Any objections? | |||
| -- ] (]) 11:41, 16 June 2011 (UTC) | |||
| :A constructive proposal, though I would pay heed to the ]'s comments on prénom vs surname use. ] 19:10, 16 June 2011 (UTC) | |||
| Thanks; you're right on surname use. I haven't yet found a satisfactory link for "Consciousness" as used here. ] (]) 19:44, 16 June 2011 (UTC) | |||
| == Additional citations == | |||
| I have added citations for all the unreferenced biographical details (attendance at Baltimore Polytechnic and Howard University, current residence in Harlem) and removed the "needs additional citations" tag. This is my first "real" edit of an article (i.e. not just fixing broken links), and I think I covered everything necessary, but please let me know if I'm in the wrong here. ] (]) 19:34, 27 October 2011 (UTC) | |||
| ::I don't see any problems. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 04:34, 31 May 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| ==Ta Nehisi Coates blog style== | |||
| I have tried numerous times to edit a section on TNC and the editing of articles. Well, more so on the editing of comment sections of articles. It seems that TNC, himself or others affiliated with him, have been significantly altering his own blog on The Atlantic to change comments. . | |||
| .....In violation of Misplaced Pages standard.... <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 03:01, 25 September 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| If you are genuinely confused as to why your edit keeps being deleted see wikipedia's policy on ] {{unsigned|75.134.185.136}} | |||
| == Habit of banning users == | |||
| On Aug 31 2013 (), user Agnosticraccoon deleted a link to about TNC banning me for disagreeing with him. Agnosticraccoon said, "Those sources are opinion pieces used to bolster what was written as objective fact. I suggest you bring it up on the talk page." I'm having trouble parsing that, but it's a fact that TNC banned me and has banned others. I mean, he says "lawl. ur so banned." to me right . My post combines opinion with fact, but I'm sure most WP readers aren't so young that they're going to be confused between a fact (that TNC banned me) and my take on it. | |||
| Isn't it a fact that TNC banned me and publicly admits that he did so? Isn't it a fact that he's done that in other cases? Shouldn't the negatives about his style be in this article in order to provide some slight balance? ] (]) 17:13, 27 September 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :To include such a thing, Misplaced Pages rules require that it be documented by a ] ], not a primary source like your blog. ] <small>(])</small> 17:41, 27 September 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::The primary source is The Atlantic website - which has been linked. The proof is there - written words from Ta Nehisi Coates himself. The bigger question is why are you so against including the FACT that TNC bans users for disagreeing with him as a topic on his Wiki page? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 18:19, 27 September 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| :::You misunderstand. We can't include every random fact, so the significance of the fact must be demonstrated by coverage in a reliable secondary source. ] <small>(])</small> 18:30, 27 September 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::::No, I understand quite clearly. TNC is a blogger. That is his profession. He does something which is actually rather unusual on his blog and participates in discussion and then bans people who disagree with him. So, if you think his profession and the way he conducts it are "every random fact" then that's your personal opinion. It doesn't change the fact that you're disallowing facts on a wikipedia page because of a personal bias. The source is Ta Nehisi Coates himself. How is that less reliable or applicable than a secondary source doing a report on him? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 02:24, 28 September 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| :::::I'm not disallowing anything, Misplaced Pages policies are. They require a secondary source. ] <small>(])</small> 17:21, 30 September 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::Yes, you are disallowing direct, sourced material. The fact that the New York Times hasn't done an article about TNC blogging habits does not change the facts of what he does. And you know that. Why are you disallowing this information? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 00:09, 1 October 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| ::::::: If you have a specific ] for the edit, please cite it here, and we can discuss the issue. A generic reference to atlantic.com is pretty worthless; one may as well claim, "I read it somewhere on the internet". Also repeated insertion of the disputed content will only result in your getting blocked from editing on wikipedia too, which would be ironic considering the subject of dispute! ] (]) 00:41, 1 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::::The direct link to the comments sections where TNC has banned people has been previously provided. It was then deleted by people like you who are trying to hide the truth. Are you denying that Coates bans people from TheAtlantic.com for disagreeing with him? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 02:12, 1 October 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| :::::::::You can insure that the truth comes to light by providing a reliable secondary source per Misplaced Pages rules. ] <small>(])</small> 16:58, 1 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::I don't have a "blog", I'm not a blogger, and I don't want to be associated with either term. Short of the NYT writing an article about what TNC is in the habit of doing, what would be necessary to get something in the wiki article about what TNC is in the habit of doing? The Atlantic's comments don't appear to be indexed, but if I or a bot friend can find X instances of a TNC comment admitting to banning someone, what value of X will result in that being allowed into the article? ] (]) 18:54, 28 September 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :::None, because of Misplaced Pages's prohibition against ]. A secondary source is required. ] <small>(])</small> 17:21, 30 September 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :::More to the point, Misplaced Pages is not the place to document your disputes with the subject of an article. <span style="color:red; font-size: smaller; font-weight: bold;">§]</span><sup>]</sup> 17:44, 30 September 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Here is a link to all the articles that mention Coates at the Atlantic website. Which of these articles are you referring to as your source?--<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS,sans -serif"> — ] • ] • </span> 19:34, 3 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| {{small|Above undated message substituted from ] by ] (]) 10:38, 17 January 2022 (UTC)}} | |||
| == Removing Link to Coates Living in Harlem. == | |||
| == Accusations of racism == | |||
| Well, the article really needs a discussion of Coate's record of racism. But would it be considered a primary source to cite actual racist remarks he has made in various media? <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 23:11, 27 September 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| Considering this makes up the majority of Coates' writings it seems odd that the many criticisms against hin=m for his alleged racism are not included | |||
| :] ] <small>(])</small> 23:07, 3 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/07/the-toxic-world-view-of-ta-nehisi-coates-120512 http://thefederalist.com/2015/07/16/why-can-ta-nehisi-coates-get-away-with-racial-slurs/ https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/hard-untruths-ta-nehisi-coates/ <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 15:43, 12 September 2016 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| :It seems odd that people would accuse him of racism for naming “white racism” as it is, but that is unfortunately quite common. The first of those articles uses a ] myth to blame Black people for their oppression by decontextualizing Asian median income being higher than White median income. This type of criticism of Coates is not scholarly in its nuance and is not presenting a neutral point of view, so I would not add a section titled “Accusations of racism.” Perhaps add a Criticism section under Career if you feel like this needs discussing, but be mindful of Misplaced Pages’s stance on neutrality on this one. ] (]) 19:29, 19 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
| ::: Misplaced Pages?? NEUTRALITY??? ROFL. | |||
| The accusations are sound, he did write his "Black Panther and The Crew" around a story about kicking white people out of Harlem. That seems like a extremely racist thing to do, and all one needs to do is replace the white people with any other race to see how grossly offensive it would be in any other context save the one that the above poster is excusing. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 01:27, 8 May 2018 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| :Accusations of racism have been leveled against Coates, including by Blacks. Their criticisms should be included in this entry. ] (]) 00:55, 15 May 2018 (UTC) | |||
| ::Addressing racism and being racist are two different things. Should our article level charges of racism against the subject of the article because they address various manifestations of racism past and present in our society? Of course not. ] (]) 01:38, 15 May 2018 (UTC) | |||
| :::The article should include relevant criticism of Coates that has been published in ] consistent with ] and ]. Instances of ], such as "how can somebody write "<u>Black</u> Panther" and ''not'' be racist?" will be removed immediately. Editors should strive to comply with ] and ]. Consistent with ] and ], contentious material that is unsourced or poorly sourced will be removed immediately and without discussion. And keep in mind ]: the mere fact that something was published somewhere doesn't mean it belongs in this article. — ] <sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub> 04:03, 15 May 2018 (UTC) | |||
| == Criticism == | |||
| :::{{tips}} ] <small>(])</small> 03:39, 4 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| This article should have a Criticism section. In particular, the criticism from Cornel West and other similar criticisms should be discussed. ---] (]) 22:42, 14 April 2020 (UTC) | |||
| == Arrest for assault == | |||
| A year later and this article still has not criticism section, no controversy section, and no section describing Coates' well attested racism. Color me shocked.] (]) 01:55, 7 April 2021 (UTC) | |||
| My edit keeps being reverted by users with no discussion, then they tell me to "go to talk page." Please follow your own advice. This author writes on issues of blacks and crime (among others), and has cited this arrest several times in his writing. Therefore, it is no at all "undue". If the personal section is a little short, then maybe that's because this person is not as notable as other people think. But the length of the section is not relevant here. Please justify your edits on the talk page here, or cease deleting good faith edits. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 21:29, 20 February 2014 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| ::: You can't possibly imagine that any criticism of his rants against Israeli Jews who dare defend themselves, would be allowed in Misplaced Pages ... <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 07:10, 14 October 2024 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| :It's ] to include the material as a throwaway line. You're welcome to present a proposal on this page for a non-tendentious, contextual discussion of those incidents in his life. Simply adding a line that says "he was arrested" to his personal life section does not cut it. | |||
| :You shouldn't be shocked since you have failed to provide links to any reliable sources. ] ] 02:00, 7 April 2021 (UTC) | |||
| :Your addition has been reverted multiple times by multiple editors and you have violated the ]. Please make a proposal here before attempting to add it again. ] (]) 21:34, 20 February 2014 (UTC) | |||
| ::: His rants against Israeli Jews are evidence enough. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 07:09, 14 October 2024 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| :The fact is that an arrest and/or suspension for minor allegations while underage would not ''ordinarily'' be '''at all''' encyclopedic for someone's biography on Misplaced Pages. | |||
| :The incidents ''may'' be notable in this case, but '''only''' because Coates has discussed them in his writings as a part of his formative experiences. There are '''no''' reliable sources discussing the incidents except those that flow from Coates' own writings. Therefore, the incidents are only notable when placed in the context of his writing about them. ] (]) 21:45, 20 February 2014 (UTC) | |||
| ::Your argument only consists of several conclusory statements, offered without supporting evidence. For example, you keep trying to minimize my edit by referring to it as a "throwaway line". According to whom? Is there a WP definition of "throwaway lines" somewhere? If so, what is it and why does it apply here? You call these allegations "minor". That is not a neutral POV, and you need to support your assertion. Assault is a felony in every state I know of; I hardly call that "minor". You yourself admit my edit may be ok "only because Coates has discussed them." That sounds like justification enough to include it to me. Lastly, the page has repeatedly been reverted by other user without trying to discuss or improve my edit first, in violation of WP policy; yet you do not say anything about it. please explain why you ignore the other user's behavior. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 23:31, 20 February 2014 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| :: Just to be clear what I am doing: I am trying to get to a fair temporary page while discussion takes place. Gamaliel violated WP policy at 19:31 20 Feb by reverting my edit. This is the rule that applies here: https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Revert_only_when_necessary#Unacceptable_reversions: Take note of "Never revert an edit because it was made via an improper process." Also, "Don't revert an edit because it is unnecessary — because it does not improve the article. For a reversion to be appropriate, the reverted edit must actually make the article worse. Misplaced Pages does not have a bias toward the status quo (except in cases of fully developed disputes, while they are being resolved). In fact, Misplaced Pages has a bias toward change, as a means of maximizing quality by maximizing participation. Even if you find an article was slightly better before an edit, in an area where opinions could differ, you should not revert that edit, especially if you are the author of the prior text. The reason for this is that authors and others with past involvement in an article have a natural prejudice in favor of the status quo, so your finding that the article was better before might just be a result of that. Also, Misplaced Pages likes to encourage editing." Also: "This is a strict limit, not a given right; you should not revert any one article more than three times daily." Gamaliel broke these rules, and my reverts are trying to undo it and get to a place where the discussion (if users actually want that) can take place. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 00:23, 21 February 2014 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| :::I broke no rules. That's not a rule, that's an essay which, as it notes on top of that page "contains the advice or opinions of one or more Misplaced Pages contributor". Per our BLP policies, potentially infringing material should be removed immediately, which is what I did. ] <small>(])</small> 00:26, 21 February 2014 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Oh, you decided to actally try discussing; good for you. Perhaps you could have just tried that to start with; the page (which you seem to want to just ignore) does say to let what you think is a minor flaw go to avoid discourgaing editors? A search of BLP page shows nothing about "infringing material", whatever that means. You certainly violated the 3RR rule, so fairness says the page should stand at my edit and let's discuss (if you actually want to). <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 00:35, 21 February 2014 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| :::::I've reviewed the edit history, and Gamaliel has not violated 3RR today. —''']''' (]) 00:38, 21 February 2014 (UTC) | |||
| The edit war's over, but if anyone has comments about my proposed addition, please discuss. | |||
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Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 10:38, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Accusations of racism
Well, the article really needs a discussion of Coate's record of racism. But would it be considered a primary source to cite actual racist remarks he has made in various media? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.67.81.56 (talk) 23:11, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
Considering this makes up the majority of Coates' writings it seems odd that the many criticisms against hin=m for his alleged racism are not included http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/07/the-toxic-world-view-of-ta-nehisi-coates-120512 http://thefederalist.com/2015/07/16/why-can-ta-nehisi-coates-get-away-with-racial-slurs/ https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/hard-untruths-ta-nehisi-coates/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.91.188.153 (talk) 15:43, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
- It seems odd that people would accuse him of racism for naming “white racism” as it is, but that is unfortunately quite common. The first of those articles uses a model minority myth to blame Black people for their oppression by decontextualizing Asian median income being higher than White median income. This type of criticism of Coates is not scholarly in its nuance and is not presenting a neutral point of view, so I would not add a section titled “Accusations of racism.” Perhaps add a Criticism section under Career if you feel like this needs discussing, but be mindful of Misplaced Pages’s stance on neutrality on this one. EnunciationOfTruth (talk) 19:29, 19 January 2017 (UTC)
- Misplaced Pages?? NEUTRALITY??? ROFL.
The accusations are sound, he did write his "Black Panther and The Crew" around a story about kicking white people out of Harlem. That seems like a extremely racist thing to do, and all one needs to do is replace the white people with any other race to see how grossly offensive it would be in any other context save the one that the above poster is excusing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:246:5600:AB6C:E8F6:308B:89B6:3619 (talk) 01:27, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
- Accusations of racism have been leveled against Coates, including by Blacks. Their criticisms should be included in this entry. Nicmart (talk) 00:55, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
- Addressing racism and being racist are two different things. Should our article level charges of racism against the subject of the article because they address various manifestations of racism past and present in our society? Of course not. Bus stop (talk) 01:38, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
- The article should include relevant criticism of Coates that has been published in reliable sources consistent with WP:NPOV and WP:BLP. Instances of original research, such as "how can somebody write "Black Panther" and not be racist?" will be removed immediately. Editors should strive to comply with WP:WEIGHT and WP:PROPORTION. Consistent with WP:BLPRS and WP:BLPREMOVE, contentious material that is unsourced or poorly sourced will be removed immediately and without discussion. And keep in mind WP:ONUS: the mere fact that something was published somewhere doesn't mean it belongs in this article. — Malik Shabazz /Stalk 04:03, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
- Addressing racism and being racist are two different things. Should our article level charges of racism against the subject of the article because they address various manifestations of racism past and present in our society? Of course not. Bus stop (talk) 01:38, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
Criticism
This article should have a Criticism section. In particular, the criticism from Cornel West and other similar criticisms should be discussed. ---Dagme (talk) 22:42, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
A year later and this article still has not criticism section, no controversy section, and no section describing Coates' well attested racism. Color me shocked.76.65.26.220 (talk) 01:55, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
- You can't possibly imagine that any criticism of his rants against Israeli Jews who dare defend themselves, would be allowed in Misplaced Pages ... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.103.107.57 (talk) 07:10, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
- You shouldn't be shocked since you have failed to provide links to any reliable sources. Cullen Let's discuss it 02:00, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
- His rants against Israeli Jews are evidence enough. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.103.107.57 (talk) 07:09, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
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