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== Software engineering ==
Thanks, ] (]) 14:36, 3 September 2013 (UTC)


Starting talk to give notes to myself .... re Hamilton claim she invented software engineering, or the term ...
== Reinstating edit on Creation-evolution controversy ==
Think she was the team lead for Apollo modules software (team grew up to 'have almost 100 software engineers' so not trivial but ...)


Also credited to Oettinger's 1966 letter as President of the ACM
Hi Markbasset,
-
I see you reinstated I had reverted previously, which removes the word ''pseudoscience''. That word is backed by the ] used and quoting Popper directly could actually be considered ] since it's a primary source. It'd be great if you could give ] a read. When an edit you make is reverted you go to the talk page, open a new thread about it and then wait to hear from other editors' input on the issue. Reverting back is considered bad practice and doing so more than three times in less than 24 hs (I'm not saying you did BTW) is considered ].
"We must recognize ourselves-not necessarily all of us, and not necessarily any one of us all the time-as members of a engineering profession, be it hardware engineering or software engineering, a profession without artificial and irrelevant boundaries like that between "scientific" and "business" applications."
I'd really appreciate it if you could self revert your last edit and open a new thread so we can discuss it. Thank you very much. Regards. ] <sup><font color="green">]</font></sup> 02:16, 25 September 2013 (UTC)


] - President 1966-1968 of the , founded the Computer Science and Engineering Board of the National Academy of Sciences and chaired it for six years starting in 1967.
Please try the article talk since the re-creation means I've really looked and still think the edit is appropriate and so posted there. But first, please consider the desireability of having the primary source on the section topic Falsifiability (the Popper book) in favor of a lesser secondary source and on what wording would convey what is modern application or re-interpretation and where it will have gone too far in rephrasing the secondary source. To be precise, Popper defines falsifiability as a separator for science from all else, not saying the all-else is pseudoscience. Even the secondary source seems to not be making it the determinant for pseudoscience but noting it as a criteria (one of many?) for distinguishing science from psuedoscience is the Stanford extension of modern discussions. Saying a test mentioned in modern discussions is correct of STanford, but saying it as the determination of a duality was not in Stanford. Non-falsifiable pieces might equally well be poetry, law, music, acconting etcetera. And while Popper used the word pseudoscience, to him Pseudoscience usage differs from that of modern day -- he used that for Bolsheviks as epithet for his fellow Jews having to teach politically-correct Marxist views in what we now would call 'soft' sciences. ] (]) 11:50, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
In Dec 1966 ""The notion of software engineering is, thank goodness, beginning to be heard of more and more". and "Unless economic and engineering criteria are brought into the picture, sterile monsters result."
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== Reference Errors on 20 March ==


, Princeton CWI quarterly 1990 (325-334)
] Hello, I'm ]. I have '''automatically detected''' that an edit performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. {{#ifeq:1|1|It is|They are}} as follows:
(An expanded version of a lecture presented at CWI on 1 February 1990. It is based on researchgenerously supported by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.)
*On the ] page, caused a ] <small>(])</small>. ( | )
Begins wanting the context not just listing names, dates, and places of firsts.
Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a ], you can .
So trying to determine what people thought when they first began to talk about "software engineering".
Thanks, <!-- User:ReferenceBot/inform -->] (]) 00:37, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
- one writer suggested originated 1965
* Brian Randell ("Software Engineering in 1968", Prof. 4th Intern. Conf. on Software Engineering , 1) ascribes it to J.P. Eckert at th e Fall Joint Computer Conference in 1965, but th e transcript ofthe one panel discussion in which Eckert participated shows no evidence of the term "software engineering". D.T.Ross claims the term was used in courses he was teaching at MIT in the late '50s; cf. "Interview: Douglas RossTalks About Structured Analysis", Computer (July 1985), 80-88
- first came into common currency in 1967 when the Study Group on Computer Science of the NATO Science Committee called for an international conference on t he subject
- As Brian Randell and Peter Naur point out in the introduction to theiredition of the proceedings, "The phrase 'software engineering' was deliberately chosen as beingprovocative, in implying the need for software manufacture to be on the types oftheoretical foundations and practical disciplines that are traditional in the established branchesof engineering."
* Peter Naur, Brian Randell, J.N. Buxton (eds.), Software Engineering: Concepts and Techniques (NY:Petrocelli/Charter, 1976; hereafter NRB)


-Michael S Mahoney, "The History of Computing in the History of Technology", Annals of the History of Computing 10, no. 2 (April 1988):113-125
== To avoid being blocked ... ==
"To emphasize the need for a concerted effort along new lines, the committee coined the term “software engineering”, reflecting the view that the problem required the combination of science and management thought characteristic of engineering. "


-Andrew L. Friedman and Dominic S Cornford’s 1989 book Computer Systems Development: History, Organization and Implementation. ...
snippet note quoth
- Martin Boogard’s 1994 thesis, Defusing the Software Crisis ...
- 1996 Martin Campbell-Kelly and William Aspray published their overview of the history of computing, Computer: A History of the Information Machine
- two conferences on the history of software held in Germany around this time. The first, at Scholss Dagstuhl in 1996, was dedicated to the history of software engineering and included veterans of the 1968 conference


] has
]
"Early usages for the term software engineering include a 1965 letter from ACM president Anthony Oettinger, lectures by Douglas T. Ross at MIT in the 1950s, and Margaret H. Hamilton as a way of giving it legitimacy during the development of the Apollo Guidance Computer. "
To avoid being blocked, instead of reverting please consider using the article's ] to work toward making a version that represents ] among editors. See ] for how this is done. You can post a request for help at a relevant ] or seek ]. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary ]. ] (]) 21:10, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

] had
"The term "software engineering" was coined by Anthony Oettinger and then was used in 1968 as a title for the world's first conference on software engineering, sponsored and facilitated by NATO. "

The origins of the term "software engineering" have been attributed to various sources. The term "software engineering" appeared in a list of services offered by companies in the June 1965 issue of and was used more formally in the August 1966 issue of Communications of the ACM (Volume 9, number 8) “letter to the ACM membership” by the ACM President Anthony A. Oettinger, it is also associated with the title of a NATO conference in 1968 by Professor ], the first conference on software engineering. ] described the discipline "software engineering" during the Apollo missions to give what they were doing legitimacy.

Springer by O'Regan starts
"This chapter presents a short history of software engineering from its birth at the Garmisch conference in Germany, and it is emphasized that software engineering is a lot more than just programming. "

IEEE, N. Wirth "A Brief History of Software Engineering"
https://people.inf.ethz.ch/wirth/Miscellaneous/IEEE-Annals.pdf here]
The difficulties brought big companies to the brink of collapse. In 1968 a conference sponsored by NATO was dedicated to the topic (1968 at
Garmisch-Partenkirchen, Germany) . Although critical comments had occasionally been voiced earlier , it was not before that conference
that the difficulties were openly discussed and confessed with unusual frankness, and the terms software engineering and software crisis were coined.
1. P. Naur and B. Randell, Eds. Software Engineering.
Report on a Conference held in Garmisch, Oct. 1968, sponsored by NATO
2. E.W. Dijkstra. Some critical comments on advanced programming. Proc. IFIP Congress, Munich, Aug. 1962.
3. R.S. Barton. A critical review of the state of the programming art. Proc. Spring Joint Computer Conference, 1963, pp 169 – 177.

Grady Booch
The Origins of the Term
Many suggest it came from the 1968 NATO Conference on Software Engineering, coined by Friedrich Bauer.
Others have pointed to the 1966 letter by Anthony Oettinger in Com�munications of the ACM, wherein he used the term “software engineering”
to make the distinction between computer science and the building of software-intensive systems.1
Even ear�ier, in the June 1965 issue of Computers and Automation, there appeared a classified ad seeking a “systems software engineer.”
All the data I have points to Margaret Hamilton as the person who first coined the term. Having worked on the SAGE
(Semi-automatic Ground Environment) program, she became the lead developer for Skylab and Apollo while working at the Draper Lab.
According to an (unpublished) oral history, she began to use the term “software engineering” sometime in 1963 or 1964 to distinguish her work
from the hardware engineering taking place in the nascent US space program

mentions him

IEEE post says
"Many suggest it came from the 1968 NATO conference on Software Engineering, coined by Friedrich Bauer. Others have pointed to the 1966 letter by Anthony Oettingger in Communications of the ACM wherein he used the term "software engineering" to make the distinction between computer science and the building of software-intensive systems. Even earlier, in the June 1965 issue of Computers and Automation there appeared a classified ad seeking a "systems software engineer." "

And pg 13 background
"The phrase ‘software engineering’ was deliberately chosen as being provocative, in implying the need for software manufacture to be based on the types of theoretical foundations and practical disciplines, that are traditional in the established branches of engineering"
and pg75 mentions others already at
"In the United States National Academy of Sciences Research Board one education committee being formed is precisely to study software engineering
as a possible engineering education activity."

Princeton in starts
"Dating from the first international conference on the topic in October 1968, software engineering just turned thirty-five."

John W. Tukey, a chemist and statistician, is credited with the first printed use of the term "software" when he wrote a scientific article in 1958.
Elsewhere saw
"From soft +‎ -ware, by contrast with hardware (“the computer itself”). Coined 1953 by Paul Niquette; first used in print by John Tukey 1958."

Bertrand Meyer writes that the term was not coined in 1968 during the famous NATO conference

A different blog has
"The term “software engineering” was first coined in 1972 by Dr. David Parnas when he published the paper, “On the Criteria To Be Used in Decomposing Systems into Modules.” This paper — and the dawn of software engineering — was the result of several notable innovations that happened years prior."


History of Software Engineering includes
"Margaret Hamilton became the lead developer for Skylab and Apollo while working at the Draper Lab. According to an (unpublished) oral history, she began to use the term "software engineering" sometime in 1963 or 1964 to distinguish her work from the hardware engineering taking place in the nascent US space program."
Though elsewhere
also says 1963 "In 1963, Margaret Hamilton, coined the term software engineering while working on developing the software for the Apollo spacecraft." (though this is flawed by here was no Apollo program in 1963)

Niklaus Wirth wrote (2008) which includes "The term
Software Engineering became known after a conference in 1968, when the difficulties and pitfalls of designing complex systems were frankly discussed."
...
"In 1968 a conference sponsored by NATO was dedicated to the topic (1968 at Garmisch-Partenkirchen, Germany) .
Although critical comments had occasionally been voiced earlier , it was not before that conference that the difficulties were
openly discussed and confessed with unusual frankness, and the terms software engineering and software crisis were coined. "
1. P. Naur and B. Randell, Eds. Software Engineering. Report on a Conference held in Garmisch, Oct. 1968, sponsored by NATO
2. E.W. Dijkstra. Some critical comments on advanced programming. Proc. IFIP Congress, Munich, Aug. 1962.
3. R.S. Barton. A critical review of the state of the programming art. Proc. Spring Joint Computer Conference, 1963, pp 169 – 177.

- but I didn't see the topic or SE term in the (Aug 27-Sep 1)
The
.. I do see Barton found
and criticism of the term 'software' but no mention of 'software engineering'

Grady Booch wrote
"Many suggest it came from the 1968 NATO Conference on Software Engineering, coined by Friedrich Bauer4. Others have pointed to the 1966
letter by Anthony Oettinger in Communications of the ACM wherein he used the term “software engineering” to make the distinction between
computer science and the building of software-intensive systems5. Even earlier, in the June 1965 issue of Computers and Automation, there
appeared a classified ad seeking a “systems software engineer” 6
.
All the data I have points to Margaret Hamilton as the person who first coined the term. Having worked on the SAGE program, she became the
lead developer for Skylab and Apollo while working at the Draper Labs. According to an (unpublished) oral history, she began to use the term
“software engineering” sometime in 1963 or 1964 to distinguish her work from the hardware engineering taking place on the nascent US space
program7"
4 Naur, Peter and Randell, Brian. Software Engineering: Report on a conference sponsored by the NATO Science
Committee. Brussels, Belgium: NATO Scientific Affairs Division, January 1969.
5 Oettinger, Anthony. “President’s Letter to the ACM Membership.” Communications of the ACM, Vol. 9, No. 12,
1966.
6 Computers and Automation. New York, New York: Edmund Berkeley and Associates, June 1965.
7 NASA. Margaret Hamilton, Apollo Software Engineer, Awarded Presidential Medal of Freedom. 6 August 2017.



Maybe the ngram corpus helps, at least it shows that Software Engineer peak (in print) in 1990,

says
"The term software engineering first was used in the late 1950s and early 1960s. Programmers have always known about civil, electrical and computer engineering and debated what engineering might mean for software." ] (]) 22:32, 7 May 2023 (UTC)



== It depends on context ==

For RSN discussions

*'''It depends''' on context of what specifically is being cited for what specific article content. One couldn't cite them for medical advice for example, and information in a 1991 article may have become outdated. And I'd really like a link to what prior discussion was not resolved so it needed to come to this RFC for conflict resolution. Cheers

*'''No consensus'''. From the gigantic banner which appears at the top of this page -- '''Context is important: supply the source, the article it is used in, and the claim it supports.''' This is not supposed to be some kind of official council where we decide which sources are "good" and "bad".

*:Is there an actual live issue? Where are you thinking of its use and how?

*'''It always depends on context''' - of what specific piece is being cited for what specific WP content. See ], specifically ] "Each source must be carefully weighed to judge whether it is reliable for the statement being made in the Misplaced Pages article and is an appropriate source for that content." And remember that while ] is an important policy, RS is a guideline and not a policy, so a page does not necessarily follow it. RS even says it "is a generally accepted standard that editors should attempt to follow, though ] may apply." Cheers
] (]) 17:15, 29 November 2023 (UTC)


== Academic accreditation ==

Note to self -- like many things, answer #3 - it's complicated ...

I input at a RFC for Ralston college over accreditation
: Many do mention it in the first line, though to me that does not seem per ] guidance or any distinct WP policy ... just a c ommon choice
:Some do not mention it at the start, e.g. going thru the WP ]
::Did input that seems could see that being part of a category or list - and there seems some flux or gaps in categorization running about
::BTW noted Ashford became UAGC ... which now is but seems shouldn't be ...
::And BTW is online new/separate topic? MOOCs accreditation in the US is ] but that list of accredited and ] seem an alignment challenge. Plus -- it's just cannot use the same evaluation criteria, plus available RS markedly change in tone pre-2013 vs post-2022 as the field was rapidly altering. There is obvious prior comparison to degrees from by-mail or equivalency/evaluation programs such as ] Regents College, evolved into ]...

*] liberian .. umm accredited by legislature but "no degree-granting authority" ?
*] ! not at all but obvious
*] ! second para
*] starts 'diploma mill' and says unaccredited only as part of para 3 quote
*] not until the body
*] ! very similar situation did say at start; and later alterd w some talk fuss
*] no mention - but seems no degrees either
*] first line - later mentions lost it but still part of Historically Black College program...
*] at end of section Academic programs
*] second para
*] Ashford led to seeing this - only some degrees are ...

Googling various, seeking unaccredited good schools
*] - there are unrecognized accrediting agencies ;

apparently Michigan had a list but discontinued as burden
:
: shows some reasons why might not be accredited
:::e.g. - religious so exempt ; too new; financial difficulty;

googling 'unaccredited colleges that are good' and 'list of unaccredited colleges and universities'

And looking at 'best online colleges of 2024' seems loosely interesting too
*] was degree-granting but not accredited for decades ?
*] also was in operation for 1902 until accreditation in 1959 ... no mention of online standing
*] mentions accrredite; no details

== Topicban ==

Are you still topicbanned from post-1932 politics of the United States, broadly construed? ] (]) 11:25, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:Why do you ask ? ] (]) 04:42, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
::Curiosity. ] (]) 19:03, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Oh. Well, I do not really know. It was several years ago, though it was for an indefinite period so there was no end date as such. I did not get a specific thing or action stated to end it either, nor seen any notification it is gone, so suspect it's still there pending review. The proximate cause back when was a lengthy post in my TALK page from someone where an admin felt my response was inadequate. I think both those folks left a few years ago -- my impression is the other editor was themselves banned -- so I cannot ask them. I think there is a way to check within WP if you're curious enough to hunt for it - but as the other user had not made a ban request, it might not be in the usual spot. Cheers ] (]) 21:37, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
::::Yeah I tried looking for it and then I couldn't find it and then dinner was served so I got distracted. ] (]) 21:44, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::{{tps}}. The topic ban, logged ], is still in force. The notice of it to you, Mark, is ] on this page. AFAIK, Mark has never appealed this ban, and has always abided by it. This, IMO, puts him in a good position to appeal the ban now. Mark, I still think t-banning you was a good thing for the quality of discussion in American politics at the time, but after more than four years of useful and harmless editing in other topics, it may be time for a second chance. Might you be interested in writing up a plan for how you would contribute in the area of American politics going forward, if the ban was lifted? ] &#124; ] 22:43, 17 January 2025 (UTC).
::::::{{ping|Bishonen}} Bish still stalking after 5 years? Isn't that more 'zilla's style? Maybe it would be time to give them a chance without asking them to write fanfiction first? And then keep an eye on it and gently steer them in the right direction if necessary? If it turns out to be a mistake its easy to reinstate the topicban. ] (]) 23:24, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 23:24, 17 January 2025


Software engineering

Starting talk to give notes to myself .... re Hamilton claim she invented software engineering, or the term ... Think she was the team lead for Apollo modules software (team grew up to 'have almost 100 software engineers' so not trivial but ...)

Also credited to Oettinger's 1966 letter as President of the ACM President's Letter to the ACM Membership - 

 "We must recognize ourselves-not necessarily all of us, and not necessarily any one of us all the time-as members of a engineering profession, be it hardware engineering or software engineering, a profession without artificial and irrelevant boundaries like that between "scientific" and "business" applications."

Anthony Oettinger - President 1966-1968 of the , founded the Computer Science and Engineering Board of the National Academy of Sciences and chaired it for six years starting in 1967. In Dec 1966 ""The notion of software engineering is, thank goodness, beginning to be heard of more and more". and "Unless economic and engineering criteria are brought into the picture, sterile monsters result."

NATO Software Engineering

The Roots of Software Engineering, Princeton CWI quarterly 1990 (325-334) (An expanded version of a lecture presented at CWI on 1 February 1990. It is based on researchgenerously supported by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.) Begins wanting the context not just listing names, dates, and places of firsts. So trying to determine what people thought when they first began to talk about "software engineering". - one writer suggested originated 1965

  • Brian Randell ("Software Engineering in 1968", Prof. 4th Intern. Conf. on Software Engineering , 1) ascribes it to J.P. Eckert at th e Fall Joint Computer Conference in 1965, but th e transcript ofthe one panel discussion in which Eckert participated shows no evidence of the term "software engineering". D.T.Ross claims the term was used in courses he was teaching at MIT in the late '50s; cf. "Interview: Douglas RossTalks About Structured Analysis", Computer (July 1985), 80-88

- first came into common currency in 1967 when the Study Group on Computer Science of the NATO Science Committee called for an international conference on t he subject - As Brian Randell and Peter Naur point out in the introduction to theiredition of the proceedings, "The phrase 'software engineering' was deliberately chosen as beingprovocative, in implying the need for software manufacture to be on the types oftheoretical foundations and practical disciplines that are traditional in the established branchesof engineering."

  • Peter Naur, Brian Randell, J.N. Buxton (eds.), Software Engineering: Concepts and Techniques (NY:Petrocelli/Charter, 1976; hereafter NRB)

-Michael S Mahoney, "The History of Computing in the History of Technology", Annals of the History of Computing 10, no. 2 (April 1988):113-125 "To emphasize the need for a concerted effort along new lines, the committee coined the term “software engineering”, reflecting the view that the problem required the combination of science and management thought characteristic of engineering. "

-Andrew L. Friedman and Dominic S Cornford’s 1989 book Computer Systems Development: History, Organization and Implementation. ... - Martin Boogard’s 1994 thesis, Defusing the Software Crisis ... - 1996 Martin Campbell-Kelly and William Aspray published their overview of the history of computing, Computer: A History of the Information Machine - two conferences on the history of software held in Germany around this time. The first, at Scholss Dagstuhl in 1996, was dedicated to the history of software engineering and included veterans of the 1968 conference

History of software engineering has "Early usages for the term software engineering include a 1965 letter from ACM president Anthony Oettinger, lectures by Douglas T. Ross at MIT in the 1950s, and Margaret H. Hamilton as a way of giving it legitimacy during the development of the Apollo Guidance Computer. "

Software engineering had "The term "software engineering" was coined by Anthony Oettinger and then was used in 1968 as a title for the world's first conference on software engineering, sponsored and facilitated by NATO. "

The origins of the term "software engineering" have been attributed to various sources. The term "software engineering" appeared in a list of services offered by companies in the June 1965 issue of COMPUTERS and AUTOMATION and was used more formally in the August 1966 issue of Communications of the ACM (Volume 9, number 8) “letter to the ACM membership” by the ACM President Anthony A. Oettinger, it is also associated with the title of a NATO conference in 1968 by Professor Friedrich L. Bauer, the first conference on software engineering. Margaret Hamilton described the discipline "software engineering" during the Apollo missions to give what they were doing legitimacy.

Springer History of Software Engineering by O'Regan starts "This chapter presents a short history of software engineering from its birth at the Garmisch conference in Germany, and it is emphasized that software engineering is a lot more than just programming. "

IEEE, N. Wirth "A Brief History of Software Engineering" https://people.inf.ethz.ch/wirth/Miscellaneous/IEEE-Annals.pdf here] The difficulties brought big companies to the brink of collapse. In 1968 a conference sponsored by NATO was dedicated to the topic (1968 at Garmisch-Partenkirchen, Germany) . Although critical comments had occasionally been voiced earlier , it was not before that conference that the difficulties were openly discussed and confessed with unusual frankness, and the terms software engineering and software crisis were coined. 1. P. Naur and B. Randell, Eds. Software Engineering. 

Report on a Conference held in Garmisch, Oct. 1968, sponsored by NATO

2. E.W. Dijkstra. Some critical comments on advanced programming. Proc. IFIP Congress, Munich, Aug. 1962. 3. R.S. Barton. A critical review of the state of the programming art. Proc. Spring Joint Computer Conference, 1963, pp 169 – 177.

Grady Booch The History of Software Engineering The Origins of the Term Many suggest it came from the 1968 NATO Conference on Software Engineering, coined by Friedrich Bauer. Others have pointed to the 1966 letter by Anthony Oettinger in Com�munications of the ACM, wherein he used the term “software engineering” to make the distinction between computer science and the building of software-intensive systems.1 Even ear�ier, in the June 1965 issue of Computers and Automation, there appeared a classified ad seeking a “systems software engineer.” All the data I have points to Margaret Hamilton as the person who first coined the term. Having worked on the SAGE (Semi-automatic Ground Environment) program, she became the lead developer for Skylab and Apollo while working at the Draper Lab. According to an (unpublished) oral history, she began to use the term “software engineering” sometime in 1963 or 1964 to distinguish her work from the hardware engineering taking place in the nascent US space program

A Brief History of Software Engineering — Part 1 mentions him

IEEE post The Origins of the Term says "Many suggest it came from the 1968 NATO conference on Software Engineering, coined by Friedrich Bauer. Others have pointed to the 1966 letter by Anthony Oettingger in Communications of the ACM wherein he used the term "software engineering" to make the distinction between computer science and the building of software-intensive systems. Even earlier, in the June 1965 issue of Computers and Automation there appeared a classified ad seeking a "systems software engineer." "

1968 Report on the NATO conference And pg 13 background "The phrase ‘software engineering’ was deliberately chosen as being provocative, in implying the need for software manufacture to be based on the types of theoretical foundations and practical disciplines, that are traditional in the established branches of engineering" and pg75 mentions others already at "In the United States National Academy of Sciences Research Board one education committee being formed is precisely to study software engineering as a possible engineering education activity."

Princeton in Finding a History for Software Engineering starts "Dating from the first international conference on the topic in October 1968, software engineering just turned thirty-five."

John W. Tukey, a chemist and statistician, is credited with the first printed use of the term "software" when he wrote a scientific article in 1958. Elsewhere saw "From soft +‎ -ware, by contrast with hardware (“the computer itself”). Coined 1953 by Paul Niquette; first used in print by John Tukey 1958."

his blog post titled The origin of “software engineering” Bertrand Meyer writes that the term was not coined in 1968 during the famous NATO conference

A different blog The Beginnings of Software Engineering has "The term “software engineering” was first coined in 1972 by Dr. David Parnas when he published the paper, “On the Criteria To Be Used in Decomposing Systems into Modules.” This paper — and the dawn of software engineering — was the result of several notable innovations that happened years prior."


Slideshare History of Software Engineering includes "Margaret Hamilton became the lead developer for Skylab and Apollo while working at the Draper Lab. According to an (unpublished) oral history, she began to use the term "software engineering" sometime in 1963 or 1964 to distinguish her work from the hardware engineering taking place in the nascent US space program." Though elsewhere History of Software Engineers also says 1963 "In 1963, Margaret Hamilton, coined the term software engineering while working on developing the software for the Apollo spacecraft." (though this is flawed by here was no Apollo program in 1963)

Niklaus Wirth wrote A Brief History of Software Engineering (2008) which includes "The term Software Engineering became known after a conference in 1968, when the difficulties and pitfalls of designing complex systems were frankly discussed." ... "In 1968 a conference sponsored by NATO was dedicated to the topic (1968 at Garmisch-Partenkirchen, Germany) . Although critical comments had occasionally been voiced earlier , it was not before that conference that the difficulties were openly discussed and confessed with unusual frankness, and the terms software engineering and software crisis were coined. " 1. P. Naur and B. Randell, Eds. Software Engineering. Report on a Conference held in Garmisch, Oct. 1968, sponsored by NATO 2. E.W. Dijkstra. Some critical comments on advanced programming. Proc. IFIP Congress, Munich, Aug. 1962. 3. R.S. Barton. A critical review of the state of the programming art. Proc. Spring Joint Computer Conference, 1963, pp 169 – 177.

- but I didn't see the topic or SE term in the IFIP abstracts of papers (Aug 27-Sep 1) The session list .. I do see Barton in 1963 found here and criticism of the term 'software' but no mention of 'software engineering'

Grady Booch wrote The History of Software Engineering "Many suggest it came from the 1968 NATO Conference on Software Engineering, coined by Friedrich Bauer4. Others have pointed to the 1966 letter by Anthony Oettinger in Communications of the ACM wherein he used the term “software engineering” to make the distinction between computer science and the building of software-intensive systems5. Even earlier, in the June 1965 issue of Computers and Automation, there appeared a classified ad seeking a “systems software engineer” 6 . All the data I have points to Margaret Hamilton as the person who first coined the term. Having worked on the SAGE program, she became the lead developer for Skylab and Apollo while working at the Draper Labs. According to an (unpublished) oral history, she began to use the term “software engineering” sometime in 1963 or 1964 to distinguish her work from the hardware engineering taking place on the nascent US space program7" 4 Naur, Peter and Randell, Brian. Software Engineering: Report on a conference sponsored by the NATO Science Committee. Brussels, Belgium: NATO Scientific Affairs Division, January 1969. 5 Oettinger, Anthony. “President’s Letter to the ACM Membership.” Communications of the ACM, Vol. 9, No. 12, 1966. 6 Computers and Automation. New York, New York: Edmund Berkeley and Associates, June 1965. 7 NASA. Margaret Hamilton, Apollo Software Engineer, Awarded Presidential Medal of Freedom. 6 August 2017.


Maybe the ngram corpus helps, at least it shows that Software Engineer peak (in print) in 1990, here

says "The term software engineering first was used in the late 1950s and early 1960s. Programmers have always known about civil, electrical and computer engineering and debated what engineering might mean for software." Markbassett (talk) 22:32, 7 May 2023 (UTC)


It depends on context

For RSN discussions

  • It depends on context of what specifically is being cited for what specific article content. One couldn't cite them for medical advice for example, and information in a 1991 article may have become outdated. And I'd really like a link to what prior discussion was not resolved so it needed to come to this RFC for conflict resolution. Cheers
  • No consensus. From the gigantic banner which appears at the top of this page -- Context is important: supply the source, the article it is used in, and the claim it supports. This is not supposed to be some kind of official council where we decide which sources are "good" and "bad".
  • Is there an actual live issue? Where are you thinking of its use and how?
  • It always depends on context - of what specific piece is being cited for what specific WP content. See WP:RS, specifically WP:RSCONTEXT "Each source must be carefully weighed to judge whether it is reliable for the statement being made in the Misplaced Pages article and is an appropriate source for that content." And remember that while WP:V is an important policy, RS is a guideline and not a policy, so a page does not necessarily follow it. RS even says it "is a generally accepted standard that editors should attempt to follow, though occasional exceptions may apply." Cheers

Markbassett (talk) 17:15, 29 November 2023 (UTC)


Academic accreditation

Note to self -- like many things, answer #3 - it's complicated ...

I input at a RFC for Ralston college over accreditation here

Many do mention it in the first line, though to me that does not seem per WP:LEAD guidance or any distinct WP policy ... just a c ommon choice
Some do not mention it at the start, e.g. going thru the WP List of unaccredited institutions of higher education
Did input that seems could see that being part of a category or list - and there seems some flux or gaps in categorization running about
BTW noted Ashford became UAGC ... which now is but seems shouldn't be ...
And BTW is online new/separate topic? MOOCs accreditation in the US is Distance Education Accrediting Commission but that list of accredited and List of MOOC providers seem an alignment challenge. Plus -- it's just cannot use the same evaluation criteria, plus available RS markedly change in tone pre-2013 vs post-2022 as the field was rapidly altering. There is obvious prior comparison to degrees from by-mail or equivalency/evaluation programs such as University of the State of New York Regents College, evolved into Excelsior University...

Googling various, seeking unaccredited good schools

  • ed.gov] - there are unrecognized accrediting agencies ;

apparently Michigan had a list but discontinued as burden

scholero Unaccredited Universities
awalis shows some reasons why might not be accredited
e.g. - religious so exempt ; too new; financial difficulty;

googling 'unaccredited colleges that are good' and 'list of unaccredited colleges and universities'

And looking at 'best online colleges of 2024' seems loosely interesting too

Topicban

Are you still topicbanned from post-1932 politics of the United States, broadly construed? Polygnotus (talk) 11:25, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

Why do you ask ? Markbassett (talk) 04:42, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
Curiosity. Polygnotus (talk) 19:03, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
Oh. Well, I do not really know. It was several years ago, though it was for an indefinite period so there was no end date as such. I did not get a specific thing or action stated to end it either, nor seen any notification it is gone, so suspect it's still there pending review. The proximate cause back when was a lengthy post in my TALK page from someone where an admin felt my response was inadequate. I think both those folks left a few years ago -- my impression is the other editor was themselves banned -- so I cannot ask them. I think there is a way to check within WP if you're curious enough to hunt for it - but as the other user had not made a ban request, it might not be in the usual spot. Cheers Markbassett (talk) 21:37, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
Yeah I tried looking for it and then I couldn't find it and then dinner was served so I got distracted. Polygnotus (talk) 21:44, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
(talk page stalker). The topic ban, logged here, is still in force. The notice of it to you, Mark, is here on this page. AFAIK, Mark has never appealed this ban, and has always abided by it. This, IMO, puts him in a good position to appeal the ban now. Mark, I still think t-banning you was a good thing for the quality of discussion in American politics at the time, but after more than four years of useful and harmless editing in other topics, it may be time for a second chance. Might you be interested in writing up a plan for how you would contribute in the area of American politics going forward, if the ban was lifted? Bishonen | tålk 22:43, 17 January 2025 (UTC).
@Bishonen: Bish still stalking after 5 years? Isn't that more 'zilla's style? Maybe it would be time to give them a chance without asking them to write fanfiction first? And then keep an eye on it and gently steer them in the right direction if necessary? If it turns out to be a mistake its easy to reinstate the topicban. Polygnotus (talk) 23:24, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
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