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{{short description|Metaphysical theory}} | |||
''' |
'''Physical causal closure''' is a ] theory about the nature of causation in the ] realm with significant ramifications in the study of ] and ]. In a strongly stated version, physical causal closure says that "all physical states have ''pure'' physical causes" — ],<ref name="Kim1" /> or that "physical effects have ''only'' physical causes" — Agustin Vincente, p. 150.<ref name=Vicente /> | ||
Those who accept the |
Those who accept the theory tend, in general although not exclusively, to the physicalist view that all entities that exist are physical entities. As ] says, "The physicalist principle of closedness of the physical ... is of decisive importance and I take it as the characteristic principle of physicalism or materialism."<ref name=Popper/> | ||
==Definition== | ==Definition== | ||
Physical causal closure has stronger and weaker formulations.<ref name=Montero/> | |||
The stronger formulations |
The stronger formulations assert that no physical event has a cause outside the physical domain — Jaegwon Kim.<ref name=Kim1/> That is, they assert that for physical events, causes ''other'' than physical causes do not exist. (Physical events that are not causally ''determined'' may be said to have their objective ''chances of occurrence'' determined by physical causes.)<ref name=Sarkar/> | ||
Weaker forms of the theory state that "Every physical event has a physical cause." |
Weaker forms of the theory state that "Every physical event has a physical cause." — Barbara Montero,<ref name=Montero/> or that "Every physical effect (that is, caused event) has physical sufficient causes" — Agustin Vincente,<ref name=Vicente /> (According to Vincente, a number of caveats have to be observed, among which is the postulate that "physical entities" are entities postulated by a true theory of physics, a theory of which we are ignorant today, and that such a true theory "will not include mental (or in general, dubious) concepts" (Note 5, p. 168).<ref name=Vicente />) or that "if we trace the causal ancestry of a physical event we need never go outside the physical domain." — Jaegwon Kim.<ref name=Kim1/> Weaker forms of physical causal closure are synonymous with the ''causal completeness'',<ref name="VelmansSchneider2008"/> the notion that "Every physical effect that has a sufficient cause has a sufficient physical cause."<ref name=Sarkar/> That is, weaker forms allow that ''in addition'' to physical causes, there may be other kinds of causes for physical events. | ||
The notion of ] supplements |
The notion of ] supplements physical causal closure with the claim that ''all'' events ultimately can be reduced to physical events. Under these circumstances, mental events are a subset of physical events and caused by them.<ref name=Kim2/> | ||
==Importance== | ==Importance== | ||
Physical causal closure is especially important when considering ] theories of ]. If no physical event has a cause outside the physical realm, it would follow that non-physical ] would be causally impotent in the physical world. However, as Kim has agreed, it seems intuitively problematic to strip mental events of their causal power.<ref name=Kim1/> Only epiphenomenalists would agree that mental events do not have causal power, but ] is objectionable to many philosophers. One way of maintaining the causal powers of mental events is to assert ] ]—that ] ] on neurological properties. That is, there can be no change in the mental without a corresponding change in the physical. Yet this implies that mental events can have two causes (physical and mental), a situation which apparently results in ] (redundant causes), and denies the strong physical causal closure.<ref name=Kim1/> Kim argues that if the strong physical causal closure argument is correct, the only way to maintain mental causation is to assert ] ]—that mental properties are neurological properties.<ref name=Kim2/> | |||
==Criticism== | ==Criticism== | ||
Some philosophers have criticized the argument for causal closure.<ref name="Naturalism, Goetz and Taliaferro">{{cite book|last=Goetz & Taliaferro|first=Stewart & Charles|title=Naturalism (Intervensions)|year=2008|publisher=Eerdmans|isbn=0802807682|url=http://www.amazon.com/Naturalism-Interventions-Stewart-Goetz/dp/0802807682}}</ref> For instance, one might object that some versions of the causal closure argument entail absurd conclusions, or beg the question, or are tautologous. | |||
The validity of the physical causal closure has long been debated.<ref name=Libet/> In modern times, it has been pointed out that science is based on removing the subject from investigations, and by seeking objectivity. This outsider status for the observer, a third-person perspective, is said by some philosophers to have automatically severed science from the ability to examine subjective issues like consciousness and free will.<ref name=Hong/><ref name=NagelT/><ref name=Mohrhoff/> A different attack upon the physical causal closure discussed by Hodgson is to claim science itself does not support the physical causal closure.<ref name=Hodgson/> Some philosophers have criticized the argument for the physical causal closure by supporting ] and mental-to-physical causation via a ''soul''.<ref name=Goetz/> | |||
⚫ | ===Ignoring |
||
⚫ | There seem prima facie to be irreducible purpose-based (or teleological explanations |
||
⚫ | ===Ignoring phenomena=== | ||
⚫ | The causal closure thesis challenges this account. It attempts to reduce all teleological final (and formal) causes to efficient causes. Goetz and Taliaferro urge that this challenge is unjustified, partly because it would imply that the ''real'' cause of arguing for causal closure is neurobiological activity in the brain, not (as we know it is) the purpose-based attempt to understand the world and explain it to others. | ||
⚫ | There seem ''prima facie'' to be irreducible purpose-based (or teleological) explanations of some natural phenomena. For instance, the movement of a writer's fingers on the keyboard and a reader's eyes across the screen is irreducibly explained in reference to the ''goal'' of writing an intelligible sentence or of learning about the physical causal closure arguments, respectively.{{Citation needed|date=March 2020}} On the face of it, an exclusively non-teleological (descriptive) account of the neurological and biological features of hand movement and eye movement misses the point. To say, "I am moving my fingers ''because'' my brain signals are triggering muscle motion in my arms" is true, but does not exhaustively explain all the causes. In Aristotelian terms, a neurological account explains the ], while the purpose-based account explains the ].<ref name=Falcon/> | ||
⚫ | The physical causal closure thesis challenges this account. It attempts to reduce all teleological final (and formal) causes to efficient causes. Goetz and Taliaferro urge that this challenge is unjustified, partly because it would imply that the ''real'' cause of arguing for the physical causal closure is neurobiological activity in the brain, not (as we know it is) the purpose-based attempt to understand the world and explain it to others.<ref name=Goetz/> | ||
===Fallacious=== | |||
One way of clarifying the causal closure argument is to add a premise specifying that there are no irreducible teleological causes. This, of course, is the attempted conclusion of the argument. Putting the conclusion as one of the premises of the argument is formally valid, but fallacious (begging the question). It is no more sound than the argument that, "I believe in the Bible because it is the written word of God through his prophets. Obviously, God would not lie to his prophets. After all, the Bible says so." | |||
===Trivial=== | |||
Another way of clarifying the causal closure argument is to specify that: "Every physical effect has a physical causes." But this is a tautology, and therefore true but trivial, like the statement "Every angel that has wings is an angel that has wings" or "Every white male who is bald is a bald white male." | |||
==Limitations== | |||
{{Importance-section|date=February 2013}} | |||
Of course, one can argue that not all events are "physical" events. The issue can then be raised as how, or even whether, non-physical events can affect physical events. According to the strong form of causal closure, that cannot happen. | |||
One type of objection to this causal closure argument is that first-person subjective events defy the third-party stance of an unengaged observer that is the foundation of science. See the article ]. An example where this conflict of views is under discussion is the field of ]. Some argue that all mental states ultimately will be related to the interactions of neurons and synapses: | |||
{{quote|"...consciousness is a biological process that will eventually be explained in terms of molecular signaling pathways used by interacting populations of nerve cells.."<ref name=Kandel/>|Eric R. Kandel| ''In Search of Memory: The Emergence of a New Science of Mind, p. 9}} | |||
On the other hand, some argue a reconciliation is yet to be found between subjective and objective approaches: | |||
{{quote|"Epistemically, the mind is determined by mental states, which are accessible in First-Person Perspective. In contrast, the brain, as characterized by neuronal states, can be accessed in Third-Person Perspective...Either the First-Person Perspective, referring to mental states, is distinguished (and thus dissociated) from the Third-Person Perspective, which rather refers to neuronal states. Or the First-Person Perspective is reduced, subordinated, or eliminated in favour of the Third-Person Perspective...If the First-Person Perspective is reduced to the Third-Person Perspective, it should refer to neuronal states. This however is not the case..."<ref name=Northoff/> |Goerg Northoff |The 'brain problem', pp. 2-3}} | |||
Still others argue that the so-called ] of how mental perceptions (]) arise from neural activity actually is insoluble. | |||
{{quote|"I argue that the bond between the mind and the brain is a deep mystery. Moreover, it is an ultimate mystery, a mystery that human intelligence will never unravel. Consciousness indubitably exists, and is connected to the brain in some intelligible way, but the nature of this connection necessarily eludes us."<ref name=McGinn/>|Colin McGinn|The Mysterious Flame: Conscious Minds In A Material World, p. 5}} | |||
==See also== | ==See also== | ||
*] | |||
*] | *] | ||
*] | *] | ||
*] | |||
*] | |||
== References == | == References == | ||
{{reflist|refs= | {{reflist|refs= | ||
<ref name= |
<ref name=Falcon> | ||
This quote is from: {{cite book |page= 9 |url=http://books.google.com/books?id=PFnRwWXzypgC&pg=PA9&lpg=PA9 |author=] |isbn=0393329372 |publisher=WW Norton |year=2007 |title=In Search of Memory: The Emergence of a New Science of Mind}} However, the same language can be found in dozens of sources. Some philosophers object to the unsupported statement of such conjectures, for example, observing that ''consciousness'' has yet to be shown to be a ''process'' at all, never mind a biological process. See {{cite book |title=Wittgenstein and the Human Form of Life |author=Oswald Hanfling |url=http://books.google.com/books?id=TRIkWPqy-JgC&pg=PA108&lpg=PA108 |pages=108–109 |isbn=0415256453 |publisher=Psychology Press |year=2002}} | |||
{{cite encyclopedia|last=Falcon|first=Andrea|title=Aristotle on Causality|url=http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/aristotle-causality/|encyclopedia=Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy|publisher=Stanford|access-date=2014-03-10}} | |||
</ref> | |||
<ref name=Goetz> | |||
{{cite book|author1=Stewart Goetz |author2=Charles Taliaferro |title=Naturalism (Intervensions) |year=2008|publisher=Eerdmans|isbn=978-0802807687|chapter-url=https://books.google.com/books?id=_m6HhdbyOqIC&pg=PA26 |chapter=Strict naturalism, purposeful explanation, and freedom |edition=Paperback |page=26}} | |||
</ref> | |||
<ref name=Hodgson> | |||
{{cite book |author=David Hodgson |title=Rationality + Consciousness = Free Will |chapter=Chapter 7: Science and determinism |isbn=9780199845309 |year=2012 |publisher=Oxford University Press | |||
|page=121 |chapter-url=https://books.google.com/books?id=4SGsmowYARsC&pg=PA121 }} Hodgson relies upon the '']'' of scientists John Conway and Simon Kochen based upon the role of the observer in quantum mechanics, which supports the view that "belief in determinism may thus come to be seen as notably ''unscientific''." | |||
</ref> | |||
<ref name=Hong> | |||
{{cite book |title=Information Processing and Living Systems |author=F.T. Hong |editor1=Vladimir B. Bajić |editor2=Tin Wee Tan |page=388 |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=O_gIDoeB7WQC&pg=PA388 |quote=The origination of free will is an illusion from the third-person perspective. However, it is a reality from the first-person perspective. |isbn=9781860946882 |year=2005 |publisher=Imperial College Press }} | |||
</ref> | </ref> | ||
<ref name=Kim1> | <ref name=Kim1> | ||
{{cite book |url= |
{{cite book |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=0iQAqQLd0AgC&pg=PA280 |page=280 |author=Jaegwon Kim |title=Supervenience and Mind: Selected Philosophical Essays |isbn=978-0521439961 |year=1993 |publisher=Cambridge University Press }} | ||
</ref> | </ref> | ||
<ref name=Kim2> | <ref name=Kim2> | ||
{{cite journal |author=Jaegwon Kim |year=1989 |title=The Myth of Non-Reductive Materialism |journal= Proceedings and Addresses of the American Philosophical Association |volume= 63 |issue=3 |pages=31–47 | |
{{cite journal |author=Jaegwon Kim |year=1989 |title=The Myth of Non-Reductive Materialism |journal= Proceedings and Addresses of the American Philosophical Association |volume= 63 |issue=3 |pages=31–47 |doi=10.2307/3130081|jstor=3130081 }} | ||
</ref> | </ref> | ||
<ref name= |
<ref name=Libet> | ||
{{cite book |title=The Volitional Brain: Towards a Neuroscience of Free Will |chapter=Editors' introduction: The volitional brain |author=Benjamin Libet |author2=Anthony Freeman |author3=Keith Sutherland |pages=''ix''–''xxii'' |isbn=9780907845119 |year=2000 |publisher=Academic |chapter-url=https://books.google.com/books?id=GygmUh51_AcC&pg=PR9 }} | |||
{{cite book |author=Colin McGinn |year=2000 |publisher=Basic Books |url=http://books.google.com/books?id=qB0lg0u3BEkC&pg=PA5 |isbn=0465014232 |page=5 |title=The Mysterious Flame: Conscious Minds In A Material World}} | |||
</ref> | </ref> | ||
<ref name=Montero> | <ref name=Montero> | ||
{{cite book |title=Physicalism and Mental Causation: The Metaphysics of Mind and Action | |
{{cite book |title=Physicalism and Mental Causation: The Metaphysics of Mind and Action |editor1=Sven Walter |editor2=Heinz-Dieter Heckmann |chapter=Chapter 8: Varieties of causal closure| author=Barbara Montero |isbn=978-0907845461 |year=2003 |publisher=Imprint Academic |chapter-url=https://books.google.com/books?id=4n_-DzEI1SkC&pg=PA173 |page=173}} | ||
</ref> | |||
<ref name=Mohrhoff> | |||
{{cite book |quote=But the laws of physics presuppose causal closure. Hence it follows that the behaviour of matter in the presence of a causally efficacious non-material mind cannot be fully governed by those laws.|author=U Mohrhoff |page=166 |chapter-url=https://books.google.com/books?id=GygmUh51_AcC&pg=PA166 |chapter=The physics of interactionism |editor= Benjamin Libet |editor2=Anthony Freeman |editor3=Keith Sutherland |isbn=9780907845119 |year=2000 |publisher=Academic |title=The Volitional Brain: Towards a Neuroscience of Free Will}} | |||
</ref> | |||
<ref name=NagelT> | |||
{{cite book |author=Thomas Nagel |title=Mind and Cosmos: Why the Materialist Neo-Darwinian Conception of Nature is Almost Certainly False |quote= cannot be understood through physical science alone, and ... their existence cannot be explained by a version of evolutionary theory that is physically reductive. |chapter-url=https://books.google.com/books?id=pOzNcdmhjIYC&pg=PA71 |page=71 |chapter=Chapter 4: Cognition |isbn=9780199919758 |year=2012 |publisher=Oxford University Press}} | |||
</ref> | </ref> | ||
<ref name= |
<ref name=Popper> | ||
{{cite book|last=Popper and Eccles|first=Karl|title=The Self and its Brain|year=1977|publisher=Springer|location=New York|isbn=978-0415058988|pages=51}} | |||
{{cite book |title=Philosophy of the Brain: The Brain Problem |author=Georg Northoff |url=http://books.google.com/books?id=CJq4QDixIg0C&pg=PT11#v=onepage&q&f=false |chapter=Chapter 1: The 'brain problem' |isbn=9027251843 |year=2004 |publisher=John Benjamins Publishing}} | |||
</ref> | </ref> | ||
<ref name=Sarkar> | <ref name=Sarkar> | ||
{{cite encyclopedia|encyclopedia=The Philosophy of Science: N-Z, Index |title=Physicalism| |
{{cite encyclopedia|encyclopedia=The Philosophy of Science: N-Z, Index |title=Physicalism|author1=Sahotra Sarkar |author2=Jessica Pfeifer |chapter-url=https://books.google.com/books?id=b_ixzEzskwYC&pg=PA566 |chapter=Physicalism: The causal impact argument |isbn=978-0415977104 |year=2006 |publisher=Taylor & Francis|page=566}} | ||
</ref> | </ref> | ||
<ref name=Vicente> | <ref name=Vicente> | ||
{{cite journal |author=Vicente, A. |title=On the Causal Completeness of Physics |journal=International Studies in the Philosophy of Science|volume=20 |pages=149–171 |year=2006|doi=10.1080/02698590600814332|url=http:// |
{{cite journal |author=Vicente, A. |title=On the Causal Completeness of Physics |journal=International Studies in the Philosophy of Science|volume=20 |issue=2 |pages=149–171 |year=2006|doi=10.1080/02698590600814332|s2cid=122833363 |url=http://philpapers.org/archive/VICOTC.pdf}} | ||
</ref> | </ref> | ||
<ref name="VelmansSchneider2008"> | <ref name="VelmansSchneider2008"> | ||
{{cite book|author1=Max Velmans|author2=Susan Schneider|title=The Blackwell Companion to Consciousness|url= |
{{cite book|author1=Max Velmans|author2=Susan Schneider|title=The Blackwell Companion to Consciousness|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=B1lRZmOzuJ0C |access-date=6 February 2013|date=15 April 2008|publisher=John Wiley & Sons|isbn=978-0-470-75145-9}} | ||
</ref> | </ref> | ||
}} | }} | ||
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Latest revision as of 23:52, 11 July 2024
Metaphysical theoryPhysical causal closure is a metaphysical theory about the nature of causation in the physical realm with significant ramifications in the study of metaphysics and the mind. In a strongly stated version, physical causal closure says that "all physical states have pure physical causes" — Jaegwon Kim, or that "physical effects have only physical causes" — Agustin Vincente, p. 150.
Those who accept the theory tend, in general although not exclusively, to the physicalist view that all entities that exist are physical entities. As Karl Popper says, "The physicalist principle of closedness of the physical ... is of decisive importance and I take it as the characteristic principle of physicalism or materialism."
Definition
Physical causal closure has stronger and weaker formulations.
The stronger formulations assert that no physical event has a cause outside the physical domain — Jaegwon Kim. That is, they assert that for physical events, causes other than physical causes do not exist. (Physical events that are not causally determined may be said to have their objective chances of occurrence determined by physical causes.)
Weaker forms of the theory state that "Every physical event has a physical cause." — Barbara Montero, or that "Every physical effect (that is, caused event) has physical sufficient causes" — Agustin Vincente, (According to Vincente, a number of caveats have to be observed, among which is the postulate that "physical entities" are entities postulated by a true theory of physics, a theory of which we are ignorant today, and that such a true theory "will not include mental (or in general, dubious) concepts" (Note 5, p. 168).) or that "if we trace the causal ancestry of a physical event we need never go outside the physical domain." — Jaegwon Kim. Weaker forms of physical causal closure are synonymous with the causal completeness, the notion that "Every physical effect that has a sufficient cause has a sufficient physical cause." That is, weaker forms allow that in addition to physical causes, there may be other kinds of causes for physical events.
The notion of reductionism supplements physical causal closure with the claim that all events ultimately can be reduced to physical events. Under these circumstances, mental events are a subset of physical events and caused by them.
Importance
Physical causal closure is especially important when considering dualist theories of mind. If no physical event has a cause outside the physical realm, it would follow that non-physical mental events would be causally impotent in the physical world. However, as Kim has agreed, it seems intuitively problematic to strip mental events of their causal power. Only epiphenomenalists would agree that mental events do not have causal power, but epiphenomenalism is objectionable to many philosophers. One way of maintaining the causal powers of mental events is to assert token identity non-reductive physicalism—that mental properties supervene on neurological properties. That is, there can be no change in the mental without a corresponding change in the physical. Yet this implies that mental events can have two causes (physical and mental), a situation which apparently results in overdetermination (redundant causes), and denies the strong physical causal closure. Kim argues that if the strong physical causal closure argument is correct, the only way to maintain mental causation is to assert type identity reductive physicalism—that mental properties are neurological properties.
Criticism
The validity of the physical causal closure has long been debated. In modern times, it has been pointed out that science is based on removing the subject from investigations, and by seeking objectivity. This outsider status for the observer, a third-person perspective, is said by some philosophers to have automatically severed science from the ability to examine subjective issues like consciousness and free will. A different attack upon the physical causal closure discussed by Hodgson is to claim science itself does not support the physical causal closure. Some philosophers have criticized the argument for the physical causal closure by supporting teleology and mental-to-physical causation via a soul.
Ignoring phenomena
There seem prima facie to be irreducible purpose-based (or teleological) explanations of some natural phenomena. For instance, the movement of a writer's fingers on the keyboard and a reader's eyes across the screen is irreducibly explained in reference to the goal of writing an intelligible sentence or of learning about the physical causal closure arguments, respectively. On the face of it, an exclusively non-teleological (descriptive) account of the neurological and biological features of hand movement and eye movement misses the point. To say, "I am moving my fingers because my brain signals are triggering muscle motion in my arms" is true, but does not exhaustively explain all the causes. In Aristotelian terms, a neurological account explains the efficient cause, while the purpose-based account explains the final cause.
The physical causal closure thesis challenges this account. It attempts to reduce all teleological final (and formal) causes to efficient causes. Goetz and Taliaferro urge that this challenge is unjustified, partly because it would imply that the real cause of arguing for the physical causal closure is neurobiological activity in the brain, not (as we know it is) the purpose-based attempt to understand the world and explain it to others.
See also
References
- ^ Jaegwon Kim (1993). Supervenience and Mind: Selected Philosophical Essays. Cambridge University Press. p. 280. ISBN 978-0521439961.
- ^ Vicente, A. (2006). "On the Causal Completeness of Physics" (PDF). International Studies in the Philosophy of Science. 20 (2): 149–171. doi:10.1080/02698590600814332. S2CID 122833363.
- Popper and Eccles, Karl (1977). The Self and its Brain. New York: Springer. p. 51. ISBN 978-0415058988.
- ^ Barbara Montero (2003). "Chapter 8: Varieties of causal closure". In Sven Walter; Heinz-Dieter Heckmann (eds.). Physicalism and Mental Causation: The Metaphysics of Mind and Action. Imprint Academic. p. 173. ISBN 978-0907845461.
- ^ Sahotra Sarkar; Jessica Pfeifer (2006). "Physicalism: The causal impact argument". Physicalism. The Philosophy of Science: N-Z, Index. Taylor & Francis. p. 566. ISBN 978-0415977104.
- Max Velmans; Susan Schneider (15 April 2008). The Blackwell Companion to Consciousness. John Wiley & Sons. ISBN 978-0-470-75145-9. Retrieved 6 February 2013.
- ^ Jaegwon Kim (1989). "The Myth of Non-Reductive Materialism". Proceedings and Addresses of the American Philosophical Association. 63 (3): 31–47. doi:10.2307/3130081. JSTOR 3130081.
- Benjamin Libet; Anthony Freeman; Keith Sutherland (2000). "Editors' introduction: The volitional brain". The Volitional Brain: Towards a Neuroscience of Free Will. Academic. pp. ix–xxii. ISBN 9780907845119.
-
F.T. Hong (2005). Vladimir B. Bajić; Tin Wee Tan (eds.). Information Processing and Living Systems. Imperial College Press. p. 388. ISBN 9781860946882.
The origination of free will is an illusion from the third-person perspective. However, it is a reality from the first-person perspective.
-
Thomas Nagel (2012). "Chapter 4: Cognition". Mind and Cosmos: Why the Materialist Neo-Darwinian Conception of Nature is Almost Certainly False. Oxford University Press. p. 71. ISBN 9780199919758.
cannot be understood through physical science alone, and ... their existence cannot be explained by a version of evolutionary theory that is physically reductive.
-
U Mohrhoff (2000). "The physics of interactionism". In Benjamin Libet; Anthony Freeman; Keith Sutherland (eds.). The Volitional Brain: Towards a Neuroscience of Free Will. Academic. p. 166. ISBN 9780907845119.
But the laws of physics presuppose causal closure. Hence it follows that the behaviour of matter in the presence of a causally efficacious non-material mind cannot be fully governed by those laws.
- David Hodgson (2012). "Chapter 7: Science and determinism". Rationality + Consciousness = Free Will. Oxford University Press. p. 121. ISBN 9780199845309. Hodgson relies upon the free will theorem of scientists John Conway and Simon Kochen based upon the role of the observer in quantum mechanics, which supports the view that "belief in determinism may thus come to be seen as notably unscientific."
- ^ Stewart Goetz; Charles Taliaferro (2008). "Strict naturalism, purposeful explanation, and freedom". Naturalism (Intervensions) (Paperback ed.). Eerdmans. p. 26. ISBN 978-0802807687.
- Falcon, Andrea. "Aristotle on Causality". Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. Stanford. Retrieved 2014-03-10.