| Revision as of 07:17, 16 September 2014 editIanmacm (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers46,151 edits →Another fine mess...: new section← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 03:38, 22 October 2024 edit undoPARAKANYAA (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, New page reviewers43,333 editsm →top: assess for wp crime, replaced: {{WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography| → {{WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography|importance=Low|Tag: AWB |
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{{oldafdfull| date = 13 September 2014 (UTC) | result = '''no consensus''' | page = The Beatles (terrorist cell) }} |
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{{WikiProject Biography|living=yes|class=stub|listas = Beatles (terrorist cell)|attention=yes|a&e-work-group=yes|a&e-priority=low}} |
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{{WikiProject Terrorism|class=stub|importance=mid}}}} |
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{{WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography|importance=Low|terrorism=yes|terrorism-imp=mid}} |
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== Neither execution or murder but killing. NPOV issue == |
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This article is pretty messy at the moment. The merge was rather unprecedented. Any thoughts? ] (]) 01:40, 16 September 2014 (UTC) |
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"Execution" implies legality while "murder" implies illegality. Either word can be used in quotation but when using Misplaced Pages's voice neutral wording such as killing should be used. ] ] 13:42, 17 November 2014 (UTC) |
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:Do you have a source for the computer-generated image? ] (]) 02:09, 16 September 2014 (UTC) |
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::It appears to be ABC News. But it is public domain nevertheless. ] (]) 02:48, 16 September 2014 (UTC) |
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:: Are you suggesting that any of their "killings" could be considered legal? ] (]) 13:47, 29 October 2015 (UTC) |
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:Execution is what RS say, so that's what we say. I'm also not convinced regarding the legality argument; their executions are not random killings, but rather killings ordered by an entity that might be unrecognised, but which does effectively operate as a government. ] (]) 15:43, 20 July 2016 (UTC) |
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== Images of Steven Sotloff == |
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== Mistranslation of a phrase == |
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Images of Steven Sotloff has been nominated for deletion for the last 9 days. You can join in the deletion discussion ].~] <small>(])</small> 02:36, 16 September 2014 (UTC) |
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There is a line "George uses the nom-de-guerre of "Abu Muhareb", which means "Fighter" in Arabic.". This line has three citations, but the translation is clearly technically inaccurate. "Muhareb" by itself means "fighter", but "Abu Muhareb" means "Father of a fighter" ("Abu _____" being a common naming style). I would have changed this myself, but I was hesitating because of the three citations. I am 100% sure of my claim though. <small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 16:34, 4 March 2015 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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== Questions on Notability == |
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I understand that the two ] upon which notability has been based to justify the creation of this article as The Beatles (terrorist cell) are and |
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:Whilst technically accurate, I'm not convinced this is really the case. In English, it's probably most accurately translated as fighter; certainly, that's what sources opt for. Abu al-Hawl (the Sphinx in Giza) is often translated as "Father of Terror", but it seems more likely that in English it'd be called "The Terrifying One", or similar. ] (]) 15:50, 20 July 2016 (UTC) |
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I also understand that the two sources simply say: |
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== Infobox == |
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"The three UK-born militants were referred to as "the Beatles" ''by fellow hostages'' because of their ''nationality'', the former captive added." |
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Anyone really keen on keeping the infobox? It doesn't really add anything that isn't already in the Lead, so it's not like it's making information more easily available than it would be without. And it's clearly a forced-fit that was never designed for section-sized units (see the huge number of chiefs and lack of indians). ] (]) 16:01, 20 July 2016 (UTC) |
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"Hostages of three ISIS ''British-accented'' militants came to call the trio 'The Beatles'" |
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I'll give it a couple more days to see if there's any comment before I remove it. ] (]) 18:59, 24 July 2016 (UTC) |
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So, is my understanding correct that there is no evidence that the group has ever called themselves "The Beatles"? Also, is my understanding correct that only a (very) small number of hostages "''decided''" to call them The Beatles, just because of their ''nationality'' and/or because they had ''British accents''? |
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== Other cell members? == |
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Also, I have seen ample of evidence that ] is notable and agree with the creation of his article. But, how are ] and ] notable? ] (]) 06:24, 16 September 2014 (UTC) |
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Captives recognized, from their accents, that four of the team assigned to be their captors seemed to be from the UK. Hmmm. Were there other captors, who weren't from the UK, or who were from the UK, but never opened their mouths? Could four guards have been enough? RS seem to imply there were other guards. So called Jihadi John seems to have played a leadership role, and thus bear more responsibility than his subordinates. The two individuals believed to have been the other two English-speaking Beatles may have been no more responsible than the non-UK members of the cell. |
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== Questions on using the ''adjective'' terrorist in the article == |
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We've had extensive discussions on whether it is appropriate to use the ''adjective'' terrorist. |
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I see this as something to keep an eye out for. ] (]) 21:59, 21 May 2019 (UTC) |
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We need to protect the ] on which this project was founded. We strive to maintain a ]. ] isn't neutral terminology. |
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== "Formerly" edits == |
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So, assuming The Beatles are notable, and I have not seen evidence yet, who designated this group as "terrorist". If there is a ] can prove that a certain body has designated the group as terrorist, shouldn't we say "so and so designated the group as a terrorist"? ] (]) 06:32, 16 September 2014 (UTC) |
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was silly and ]y. ] is the ] of Mohammed Emwazi, and he did not stop being known by this name simply because he died in November 2015. Various editors have pointed this out, so any future edits adding "formerly" or related wording will be seen as disruptive.--'''''] <sup>]</sup>''''' 08:05, 19 February 2021 (UTC) |
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== Another fine mess... == |
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This article is becoming a mess, because without a consensus on which version of the article to use from the edit history, all sorts of things are going to get fouled up. For example, contains a heap of bare references. Let's have some consistency here.--'''''] <sup>]</sup>''''' 07:17, 16 September 2014 (UTC) |
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"Execution" implies legality while "murder" implies illegality. Either word can be used in quotation but when using Misplaced Pages's voice neutral wording such as killing should be used. Gregkaye ✍♪ 13:42, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
There is a line "George uses the nom-de-guerre of "Abu Muhareb", which means "Fighter" in Arabic.". This line has three citations, but the translation is clearly technically inaccurate. "Muhareb" by itself means "fighter", but "Abu Muhareb" means "Father of a fighter" ("Abu _____" being a common naming style). I would have changed this myself, but I was hesitating because of the three citations. I am 100% sure of my claim though. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:6:8180:C19:0:0:0:3AB6 (talk) 16:34, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
Anyone really keen on keeping the infobox? It doesn't really add anything that isn't already in the Lead, so it's not like it's making information more easily available than it would be without. And it's clearly a forced-fit that was never designed for section-sized units (see the huge number of chiefs and lack of indians). Bromley86 (talk) 16:01, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
Captives recognized, from their accents, that four of the team assigned to be their captors seemed to be from the UK. Hmmm. Were there other captors, who weren't from the UK, or who were from the UK, but never opened their mouths? Could four guards have been enough? RS seem to imply there were other guards. So called Jihadi John seems to have played a leadership role, and thus bear more responsibility than his subordinates. The two individuals believed to have been the other two English-speaking Beatles may have been no more responsible than the non-UK members of the cell.
Referencing and citation: criterion met
Coverage and accuracy: criterion not met
