| Revision as of 23:23, 30 October 2014 view sourceArcticocean (talk | contribs)Edit filter managers, Extended confirmed users46,227 edits →Gamergate: Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter: v← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 18:41, 22 December 2024 view source SilverLocust (talk | contribs)Administrators24,828 edits →users reverting changes made for accurcy despite repeat requests and backed by verifiable evidences: Removing request for arbitration: declined as prematureTag: Manual revert | ||
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| <!-- PLEASE PLACE NEW CASE REQUESTS BELOW THIS LINE --> | |||
| == Gamergate == | |||
| '''Initiated by ''' ] (]) '''at''' 05:07, 28 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| === Involved parties === | |||
| <!-- Please change "userlinks" to "admin" if the party is an administrator --> | |||
| *{{userlinks|Skrelk}}, ''filing party'' | |||
| *{{userlinks|Ryulong}} | |||
| *{{admin|Masem}} | |||
| *{{userlinks|Tarc}} | |||
| *{{userlinks|Loganmac}} | |||
| *{{userlinks|NorthBySouthBaranof}} | |||
| <!-- The editor filing the case will automatically be included as a party for purposes of notifications. --> | |||
| ;Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request | |||
| <!-- All parties must be notified that the request has been filed, immediately after it is posted, and confirmation posted here. --> | |||
| *https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk%3ARyulong&diff=631424806&oldid=631404891 | |||
| *https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk%3AMasem&diff=631424845&oldid=631424750 | |||
| *https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk%3ATarc&diff=631424969&oldid=631151877 | |||
| *https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk%3ALoganmac&diff=631424877&oldid=630699038 | |||
| *https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk%3ANorthBySouthBaranof&diff=631424886&oldid=631414966 | |||
| ;Confirmation that other steps in ] have been tried | |||
| <!-- Identify prior attempts at dispute resolution here, with links/diffs to the page where the resolution took place. If prior dispute resolution has not been attempted, the reasons for this should be explained in the request for arbitration --> | |||
| *https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Gamergate_controversy | |||
| *https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:General_sanctions/Gamergate | |||
| *] | |||
| *https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Requests_for_mediation/GamerGate_%28controversy%29 | |||
| *] (Filed 26 October, currently under way) | |||
| ===Statement by Skrelk === | |||
| The article regarding the ongoing Gamergate controversy has been plagued by dispute over it's objectivity from the beginning. The party's I have named appear to be the most active in editing, and most active on the talk page. A great deal of emotion is invested in this issue, but it ultimately seems to boil down whether or not Misplaced Pages's reliable sources and undue weight polices require a Misplaced Pages article to reflect the predominant opinions in the mainstream media. The effect of bias on a source's reliability is also a key issue. Some editors are arguing that Gamergate is a one sided issue, and presenting the pro-Gamergate side in the lead constitutes undue weight. I believe this requires arbitrator intervention because the dispute has only gotten worse, and the legitimacy of the POV dispute is in itself in dispute. The dispute did not resolve, or improve after the article was fully protected for a while, and discussions are now occurring on the talk page that the POV tag should be removed despite the clear bias in the article. The article's current strong condemnation of Gamergate supporters also may pose BLP issues. Thank you for your attention. | |||
| === Statement by Ryulong === | |||
| It has been less than two weeks since when it was about claims of personal attacks and not requesting it act as King Solomon in a content dispute (whether or not ] should be ignored simply because one side in a debate is slowly becoming a fringe view). ] have only been in place for less than 4 days. If those fail, then the arbitration committee should step in. At this point, it is still too premature.—] (]) 05:32, 28 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| I didn't even see the claim of ] violations when I wrote this the first time. The filing party is suggesting that BLP protects an anonymous group of no defined membership. And Masem's ownership claims are unfounded. This situation is subject to extreme levels of offsite canvassing on Reddit by external parties and also one of the parties in this case that is drawing in people that realize that they had an account that has been unused in one case for six years to attempt to skew the article in the favor of the Gamergate movement. The only people censuring me are those that support the movement or are sympathetic to it, while my actions have been lauded for ensuring that Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines are upheld in the face of this off-site canvassing, and off-site harassment directed to me because I'm apparently high profile in all this. This is still a premature case. The filing party is asking for ArbCom to rule in a content dispute and effectively override ] and has not given ''any'' time for the community's sanctions to take hold and make a change, not that the change will likely be the one he wants to end up seeing. In the end, this is just another attempt at forum shopping by editors with an obvious POV to push, or it's going to be utilized as a pile-on attempt to silence editors they disagree with.—] (]) 06:34, 28 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| === Statement by Masem === | |||
| (''This is a more brief version of ] to be under 500 words'') | |||
| It is clear that Gamergate has received near-universal negative attention from the mainstream press due to a minority of its members engaging in harassment and death threats of women, a clear moral wrong, and that the proGamergate side (those that are arguing that there are ethics issues in video game journalism) has not receive much mainstream coverage due to their lack of a leadership, their anonymity, and the stigma of the above harassment. Per strict reading of ], ], and ], the article should be primarily in the voice to the antiGG side (which includes the press themselves). However, as we aim to write neutrally, we have to take much more care to avoid take the same tone and dislike that the press has given towards the proGG side. | |||
| A key issue that comes up is the misogynistic nature of the attacks, which is the opinion shared nearly by 100% of the press. However, it is not yet fully proven who exactly did the harassment and for what reason, and how many of those involved in the proGG side were part of that. As such the press's calling out the entire proGG as misogynic is their opinion, but it is far from a proven fact. We cannot, in Misplaced Pages's voice, condemn the whole of the proGG because the plurality of mainstream sources have. Editors like Ryulong, North, and others have pushed in language and excessive quotes (Beyond what is necessary to set the facts) as to use the predominate sourcing to force a very strong anti-"proGG" message that might reflect what the sources say, but as we are not a newspaper or a soapbox, is far from the neutrality we should aim for. | |||
| @North: Trust me, I'm aware of which areas we have had to add excessive quotes and references because of the SPA-type editors begging "But that's not true!". That accounts for maybe... 2% of the article (primarily, the claims that Kotaku refuted the accusation). None of the rest of the quotes were added because of people demanding "who said that?"; it is obvious where that if you take out the quote, you lose no context on the basics of the fundamentals of what GG is. --] (]) 06:35, 28 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| @Northx2: No, it is not 100% fact that the harassment is misogynistic; there is no hard evidence to prove who or why it was done, though Occum's Razor provides an easy route to an explanation. It is clearly a fact that the media believes that the harassments were carried out due to misogyny, but as we have no concrete idea of the people who were involved in harassment, it is very much improper to apply the media's opinion of the matter as a fact that applies to everyone in the proGG class, in Misplaced Pages's voice. There's right ways to phrase the media's take as in the media's voice, as it is such a predominate opinion, but the present article shape absolutely is not that way. --14:13, 28 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :@North: No, there is no proof. There is a clear pattern, so there is the theory, likely true by Occum's Razor, that the harassment is driven by misogynistic users, and it is fine to state that the press has taken that stance, but no one yet has 100% proved the identities and their relationship to the GG movement, and validated they are misogynistic persons themselves, so we cannot claim the harassment is misogynistic as a fact in WP's voice. Keep in mind that there's a growing concern of flat-out internet trolls with no interest in GG are at work to keep up the harassment to make all sides look bad. --] (]) 17:34, 29 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| @NewYorkBrad: While the sanctions might work to prevent SPAs from making bad changes to the article, it also is clearly now creating a system that established edits like Ryulong and North to exert more control over the article, as attempting to revert what myself or others might see as excessive bias they can revert, and re-reverting would be an immediate edit war. Core to this is understanding where we as Misplaced Pages should be keeping the tone of this article and while that would normally be a content dispute, the past attempts to discuss that content dispute have been rejected by these same editors (]) If they refuse to even consider discussing the issues of bias, that makes the content dispute also behavioral. --] (]) 15:47, 28 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :Addendum: This is the type of situation that the sanctions favors the tag-teaming nature of a select few experienced editors: TaraInDC adds this , I revert as it is a very bias statement that ignores clearly reliable sources that says that the VG industry knows of its own ethical issues, and then that is reverted by ArtW , claiming that is BLP (which is definitely not, if we're not applying BLP to the proGG either). And because of the sanctions, I cannot go in an re-revert that to a less biased form (at least, I'm staying to a 1RR approach personally), nor can I call that chain out as a violation of the sanction. This is why ArbCom needs to step in to comment on how we are supposed to keep this article neutral. --] (]) 16:59, 28 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :: Implying that provenly false allegations against Zoe Quinn may be true is very much a BLP issue. ] (]) 17:02, 28 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| @Robert McClenon: This is beyond just a sanctions issue - if it were only that, I would certainly wait to see how the current community ones would work out. There is a core issue of content (one involving systematic bias in the GG issue), which normally is outside of ArbCom's pervue. ''But'' previous attempts to mediate the issue have been ''rejected'' (so no attempt) by editors like Ryulong and North and others, claiming it's a SPA/IP issue to be ignored. That's masking the actual issues, even though the presence of SPA/IP at the article are not to be ignored. I've documented above a case that because of trying to stay within sanctions, I cannot introduce changes that I believe unbias the article without being reverted by their combined efforts, and they overwhelm the articles, dismissing the presences of SPA's arguments, showing little signs of consensus building. So the combination of a difficult content issue and ongoing behaviorial issues are intertwined, that the community sanction, even while fresh, will not likely help because it is not tackling the content side. --] (]) | |||
| @SirFozzie: I believe the situation has to be looked at both ways, as there is a strong tendancy of the other named editors to take a presumption of guilty/negativity towards the Gamergate movement due to the preponderance of sources that are negative towards it; WP as a neutral source should not be taking such a position either. The "death by thousand cuts" is still a legit concern too. --] (]) 05:25, 30 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| === Statement by Tarc === | |||
| Hello Arbcom! Long time, no see! Don't worry, I am only at best tangentially involved in this topic area this time around; I remove obvious pov-pushing from the article and try to keep the unsourced and badly-sourced editing suggestions on the talk page at bay. This case is terribly premature and primarily about a content dispute; while there are some behavioral issues, standard administrative actions and community discussion have been able to resolve the more egregious transgressions. Titanium Dragon was ] following several ANI complaints, while Armyline got whacked with a ] over ] against yours truly. | |||
| Also, ] was recently enacted, so I think the best path forward would be to let the topic area run with that in place for a time and see how it goes. Admins have more tools in hand now to keep the peace. ] (]) 12:34, 28 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| === Statement by Loganmac === | |||
| As I've said before, a movement that targets gaming journalism is bound to be misrepresented by gaming journalism. The article has been more and more one-sided lately, backed on opinion pieces as if they were facts, to the point that at times the lead has looked like satire to outside viewers I've shown it too (Not gamergate, nor anti-gamergate). In the talk page, user Ryulong is constantly uncivil per ] and disregarding ], clearly showing a case of ] as told several times. He seems to show special pride in angering users and biting noobs, as his witch hunt with a list of almost 30 users he considers as SPAs, including admins who have been editing since years ago shows. And user NorthBySouthSaranof constantly reverts edits. I can be neutral, but when most of the article is written by people who have previously admitted their strong bias and kidnapp any single discussion on the talk page, it's really just frustating. I've always shown my respect to editor Masem for his effort in making a neutral article. As well as other editors that are in no way "pro-GamerGate" like Diego Moya and The Devil's Advocate. | |||
| The article decides to disregard neutral statements like "X journalist denied this", to "X statement has been proven false". It constantly pushes strong words like "violent harassment" or almost 40 mentions of the word misogyny in an attempt to evoke feelings on the reader. It's made almost entirely of quotes, going so far as to laughably present ] as misogynist or pro-harassment company, because to everyone's surprise, sites are going to be angry at their sponsors pulling off. or being targeted. The article disregards that you should first present "what a movement did bad" and then give criticism, instead it right out states "it's a controversy centered on misogyny", written as fact while sourcing parties involved in said controversy. Or sites targeted by said controversy. Going with ] here, even the article on ], who is universally considered as a symbol of evil, its lead barely even has criticism and is written, like it should be, historically and with a neutral tone. Or the 9/11 truthers movement, widely considered a conspiracy theory, presents the subject in a neutral light. Articles on religion don't state "But as proof suggests the earth is not 6000 years old" over and over ] (]) 19:23, 28 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| === Statement by NorthBySouthBaranof === | |||
| This appears to be, at the least, premature and is asking ArbCom to rule in a content dispute, which it cannot do. The initiating party has not been active on the article or the talk page in approximately three weeks. The subsequent discussion on WP:AN, resulting community-imposed general sanctions and an RFC initiated by Masem appear to be working to bring a broader group of editors into the discussion. If the initiating party believes there are legitimate BLP issues with the article, they should be brought up and discussed on the talk page and the appropriate noticeboard. ] (]) 05:32, 28 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :@Masem: I'm assuming you are referring to I made today in the lede of the article, which is a perfect example. '''It is absolutely true and verifiable that the harassment has been of a misogynistic nature and that there have been violent threats made by Gamergate supporters.''' It is also absolutely true and verifiable that '''these are the most notable and important things about GamerGate''', as per what reliable sources have focused their attention on. Whether or not that '''fact''' makes some supporters of GamerGate unhappy, uncomfortable or vowing that we are "biased" against them is of no consequence. To omit the words "misogynistic" and "violent threats" from the lede fails utterly to present GamerGate as it has been presented by the overwhelming majority of reliable sources discussing GamerGate. It would be, in fact, ''bias in favor of GamerGate''. | |||
| :The reason we have been using "excessive quoting" is that every time a paraphrase of the consensus view of reliable sources is attempted, POV warriors scream "bias." Numerous attempts have been made to craft in-Misplaced Pages's-voice wording that accurately reflects the mainstream POV on GamerGate as expressed in the overwhelming majority of reliable sources — that it is a group of anti-feminist culture warriors who oppose the increasing prominence of diverse voices, viewpoints and ideas about video gaming, that it is fundamentally rooted in personal attacks and false allegations against Zoe Quinn in a misogynistic attempt at shaming an outspoken female into silence, and that its claims to be about "journalism ethics" are nothing more than a smokescreen intended to shield it from criticism of its true goals. These are all ] as the undisputed conclusion of mainstream reliable sources. It would be awesome if we could simply state that. But every time it's attempted, a cry arises of "bias," so our only alternative to present the mainstream POV as appropriately predominant is to extensively quote from the vast majority of reliable sources that adhere to that viewpoint, in proportion to their prominence as reliable sources. ] (]) 06:30, 28 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :@Masem: Yes, there is proof. I mean, '''there literally is proof''' that the harassment is misogynistic in nature. But that's beside the point, because we don't need proof — we need ]. The reliable sources say the harassment is misogynistic. Every. Single. One. Of. Them. Whether you or anyone else likes it or not, Gamergate is now best-known for its wing which commits misogynistic harassment and death threats. It is that wing which earned the movement its front-page coverage in The New York Times and other major international media. The ] said '''#Gamergate leads to death threats against women in the gaming industry'''. It is no longer a subject of dispute in reliable sources. When something is not a subject of dispute in reliable sources, the contrary opinion is a ]. We do not qualify the lede of ] with half a dozen statements of doubt — we flatly say "these attacks were committed by al-Qaeda" and all other theories are discarded. It is an undisputed '''fact''' among reliable sources. Similarly, that some portion of Gamergate supporters are responsible for misogynistic harassment and death threats is also, at this point, an undisputed '''fact''' among reliable sources. ] (]) 14:17, 28 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| === Statement by Retartist === | |||
| *'''Comment''' If one looks at the previous attempts at dispute resolution, you can see that a LOT more editors should be involved ] (]) 06:06, 28 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :My argument is that ] and ] are being ignored while ] is being weirdly interpreted ] (]) 07:38, 28 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| === Statement by Iamcuriousblue === | |||
| There are serious issues with tone in the current version of the article. Those editors that support the current state of the article have argued that because the majority of the mainstream media have taken a negative opinion of the Gamergate movement, not only should the Misplaced Pages article reflect how the fact have been presented by the media (which I'm not disputing), but that a highly negative and editorializing tone must be adopted for the Misplaced Pages article as well. This comes across to me a blatant violation of ]. It is true that ] holds that Misplaced Pages need not give undue consideration of minority points of view, but at the same time, nowhere in the guidelines does that say that Misplaced Pages must adopt the condemnatory language media sources might use toward an unpopular point of view. If anything, ] mitigates against that. | |||
| There is also the issue that little attempt is being made to distinguish between news articles and op-ed articles, and avoid using op-eds as course of fact, per ]. There is also little common understanding of what sources meet the standard of ], with some editors being quick to call a source unreliable when it presents a point the editor doesn't want included, and applying no such standard when it comes to things the do want included. For example, no less than four ''Kotaku'' articles are cited, one in multiple places, yet ''Kotaku'' is treated as an "unreliable source" for the inclusion of any mention of threats toward pro-Gamergate writer ]. Clearly, some consensus on what constitutes a reliable sources needs to be agreed to here and stuck to. | |||
| Finally, I want to note precedent with regard to established articles on controversial topics. Look at the articles on the ], ], and ]. All controversial movements, all with their share of bad press, and the last one clearly outside the pale of respectable scientific opinion. Yet these articles manage to remain balanced where possible, and even in the case of Creationism where this is not entirely possible, these articles are refreshingly lacking in biased, inflammatory language. These articles represent the best practices of Wikipdia. I do not see why the same cannot be done for ]. ] (]) 07:17, 28 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| === Statement by mostly uninvolved editor Hasteur === | |||
| As the author of the currently endorsed I note that multiple editors have been warned and 2 editors have been sanctioned already. I would note that the sanctions are only 4 days old and have already had a few attempts to overturn them on technicalities or to have them used to bludgen the opposition into the ground (and thereby claim that the community sanctions should be repealed). I invite the artibration committee to table this request for 3 weeks to reduce the "tempest in a teapot" nature and to give the recently endorsed sanctions time to work before ratcheting up the drama level of this drama filled topic to ArbCom level. ] (]) 14:42, 28 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| ''Addendum'': The last time I saw the argument "Wiki Insiders are using their knowledge of the rules to prevent us from our '''TRUTH'''" was the great MMA wars. Ryulong has already been censured for putting together his suspected GG-SPA list and we've moved on. But because the gaffe was committed the GGTRUTH-ers are going to hold onto that thread for dear life and try to make the argument "If I'm going down, I'm taking as many productive editors with me". Clearing the decks of all the editors who have already contributed to the Gamergate colleciton of articles is only going to provide more incentive for throwaway accounts/sockpuppetry/SPAs to try and win the vote instead of arguing from policy based consensus. ] (]) 12:41, 29 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| Precedent for similar cases/decisions are: Eastern Europe Mailing List ArbCom case, Mixed Martial Arts General Sanctions, Men's Rights Movement General Sanctions. ] (]) 13:33, 29 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| ''Re to NYB's question about SirFozzie's proposal'': The community endorsed sanctions put the tools into the toolbox for administrators to start rooting out the low level harassment designed to nullify those who are attempting to follow wikipedia's policies. I would counter that if {{U|SirFozzie}} wants a ArbCom blessing, then perhaps the committee could draft a motion endorsing the community sanctions (and encouraging administrators to use the sanctions) but reserving the right to institute something more restrictive if the current sanctions regime fails to resolve the issue. ] (]) 01:41, 30 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| === Statement by mostly uninvolved ] === | |||
| It isn’t clear what action the filing party is requesting that the ArbCom take on this case. If the filing party is requesting discretionary sanctions, the usual ArbCom remedy in troubled areas, then I agree with Hasteur that the case should be tabled for a few weeks to let the community general sanctions, which are almost the same as ArbCom discretionary sanctions, work. If the filing party is requesting that some editors be topic-banned or otherwise sanctioned, then community general sanctions are an effective procedure for doing that without the need for a full evidentiary case. However, it appears (as Ryulong implies) that the filing party may be requesting that the ArbCom impose a solution to a content dispute. (There are periodic proposals that the English Misplaced Pages needs an editorial board to resolve otherwise intractable content disputes. These proposals are not accepted. Is the filing party asking the ArbCom to become an editorial board?) | |||
| There have been multiple recent proposals to deal with this controversy about a controversy, including a declined request for arbitration, an extreme request for the community to ban a long list of editors based on one editor’s research, a comparably extreme request for the community to ban that editor for overreach; a proposal for a special draconian form of general sanctions, and Hasteur’s accepted proposal for general sanctions (which are draconian enough). The filing party doesn’t seem to be saying that the general sanctions don’t work. I would agree with Newyorkbrad and Hasteur that the ArbCom should wait a few weeks and see if the general sanctions work, except that it isn’t clear to me what the filing party is requesting. | |||
| The ArbCom should either decline or table this case, but, in the absence of a clearer explanation by the filing party of what he is requesting, it isn’t clear why the case should be deferred or declined.] (]) 15:35, 28 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :::Some editors, including ] and possibly ], are implying that community general sanctions will not work, and that ArbCom intervention is needed. If they are saying that ArbCom discretionary sanctions are more effective than community general sanctions, would they please specify what the difference is? If they are saying that some other ArbCom action is needed, what action is that? Topic-bans? How can the ArbCom do that better than general sanctions? Action against ]? Have they requested community general sanctions action? For the ArbCom to act as an editorial board? Is that about to happen? In particular, if anyone thinks that ArbCom discretionary sanctions are more effective than community general sanctions, they have not said what the difference is. ] (]) 18:28, 29 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| ::::I'm saying some ambiguities in Misplaced Pages policy(particularly whether ], ], and ] require biases in news articles to be reflected in the article) need to be clarified. I also would like to see the Arbcom impose discretionary sanctions prohibiting accusing broad lists of users of POV-pushing without evidence. A decision on to what extent a media outlets direct participation in a controversy affects it's reliability with regard to articles about that controversy ] (]) 20:00, 29 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| === Statement by mostly uninvolved ] === | |||
| ArbCom has limited options to deal with this problem. It could topic ban some of the above editors, but for that a specific violation of Misplaced Pages's policies must be shown and I don't believe the presenter of this case has even attempted so far to show that. It could impose discretionary sanctions, but that would do no more then the community has already done. So the last possible options would be to appoint uninvolved administrator as mentors to guide the page back to a NPOV. So far community sanctions have not been imposed long enough to know if they will be effective or not, as such I would suggest that ArbCom decline the case. If this case is accepted, now or in the future, I would suggest considering appointing of mentors to guide the discussion on the page. | |||
| --] (]) 17:22, 28 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| === Statement by marginally involved {{U|EvergreenFir}} === | |||
| Given new general sanctions, this is premature. If those sanctions are not effective after a couple weeks, then arbcom I appropriate. Urge arbitrators to table until then. ] ] <small>Please {{]}}</small> 18:59, 28 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| Though not brought up in the OP, TaraInDC raises a good point that there's a ton of SPA and zombie accounts. If the calls to look at edits (quality, ratios, etc.) on the GGTF case have any sway on the arbitrators, then that same issue is present in this case 100 fold. I still think this is premature, but frankly the SPA/zombies are the main issue here. See extended content on the {{diff2|630774770|AN posting by Ryulong}} for lists and discussions about these accounts. ] ] <small>Please {{]}}</small> 04:00, 29 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| === Statement by The Devil's Advocate === | |||
| My stance at the moment is to wait a week or so to see how things play out. I made a major edit last night that I would consider a move to address concerns about the article's neutrality. Personally, I have no faith in the general sanctions regime that has been passed because, in my experience, admin actions on this topic have been exclusively one-sided to the point where even blatant violations of 3RR have been ignored by admins when done in furtherance of an anti-GamerGate position. A number of admin actions from multiple admins have been involved, incompetent, abusive, or a combination of the three. Editors such as Tarc, Ryulong, and Baranof, are frequently engaged in abusive behavior on the talk page or POV-pushing, which appears to be receiving no attention from admins. That being said, I would at least like to wait and see how editing will play out before pursuing ArbCom. I do think there is a very good chance we will end up having to bring this to ArbCom and it may be a good idea to leave this request open and unresolved for a little bit because that moment could be very soon, but do not rush to accept it.--] <sub>] ]</sub> 21:24, 28 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :Fozzie seems to be talking about some situation that is not really taking place. Not surprisingly, this article is getting a huge influx of editors seeking to have the article reflect their point of view. Many of the established editors are able to work with these new editors when they show a legitimate understanding of Misplaced Pages's standards and ignore them when they appear to be just here to get their point of view in the article by any means necessary. The only editors who are seriously misbehaving with regards to these new editors are those with a history of such conduct towards established editors as well. My concern is actually very much in the opposite direction as it seems some of the editors who have expressed strong negative attitudes regarding the subject are trying to drive out or remove sympathetic and neutral voices. Having said that, it does seem for now that the situation is stable. Of course, this matter has been fluid and there is no telling where things may go even a day from now.--] <sub>] ]</sub> 05:12, 30 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| === Statement by ] === | |||
| This article is absolutely overrun with, shall we say, 'inexperienced' editors who are making progress on this page impossible. Just in the past 24 hours or so we have: | |||
| '''Straightforward SPAs''' | |||
| Accounts that were clearly created specifically to work on the page: | |||
| *{{user|Strongjam}} First edit on | |||
| *{{user|Willhesucceed}} First edit in August, to . One of the most tendentious of the article's SPAs, and while he in recent days has made some edits outside of the topic, his purpose on the project is quite clear: only 30 or so of his nearly 300 article edits are to articles unrelated to gamergate, and over 600 of his just over 700 talkpage edits are to ], with most of the remainder to other articles relating to gamergate. | |||
| *{{user|YellowSandals}} | |||
| *{{user|Muscat_Hoe}} First edit Sept 27, made a few edits to an unrelated video game article, committed as the account's eighth edit. | |||
| *{{user|AnyyVen}} first edit | |||
| *{{user|TuxedoMonkey}} first edit , has a large number of edits to ] adding copy-and-pasted 'offical' synopses to indiviual episodes. | |||
| '''"Sleeper" accounts''' | |||
| The off-site canvasing has specifically solicited people with old Misplaced Pages accounts to work on the article, with the apparent assumption that their efforts will be more successful than new accounts. This has resulted in a large number of long-inactive accounts returning suddenly to join the POV pushing. These are accounts with very few edits outside the topic but which were first active prior to August of this year. | |||
| *{{user|Halfhat}} Registered in April, played throught ], made six article edits and was inactive from May until October. | |||
| *{{user|DungeonSiegeAddict510}} Seven edits in 2013, five in March of this year, | |||
| *{{user|Loganmac}} somewhere around 30 edits from 2009-2011; returned September 10 and has since been laregely using the article talk page as a forum, making many idle, unproductive comments despite repeated reminders of ]. | |||
| *{{User|Filthylaugh}} 18 edits in January. | |||
| *{{User|Swim Jonse}} A handful of edits in June of this year; began editing ] in August and has been exclusively dedicated to Gamergate since. | |||
| *{{user|Galexander}} Inactive since 2009, fewer than 30 edits prior to returning. | |||
| These are only the most blatant, and again, are just the accounts that have been active in the last day or so. Coupled with the very casual attitudes towards Misplaced Pages policy exhibited by even established editors pushing for a pro-gamergate article, and the page is a complete mess. While I don't think that the filer makes a good case for arbcom intervention in the content dispute, something more than the sanctions does need to be done about the constant influx, as it seems editors are only banned under those sanctions if they actually libel someone (which, given the BLP sanctions that are already in place due to a previous arbcom ruling, should be the default and not a special case for this article, shouldn't it?) This can't be the first article that has attracted this level of off site canvasing: what's the precedent? -- ] (]) 03:23, 29 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| '''Note to newbies,''' since it's happened twice now: there is no space for threaded discussion in these 'statement by' sections. -- ] (]) 04:23, 29 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| And since Tutelary's "You're the ''real'' SPA!" meme seems to have taken hold, please note that editing one topic primarily or exclusively for a time after having established a diverse contribution history does not make one an SPA, nor does being inactive for a few months in the summer. The accounts I've listed above all either have ''very'' few - as in 20-30 or even less - edits outside gamergate or were clearly created specifically for editing on the subject. Good try tho. -- ] (]) 04:27, 29 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| === Statement by ] === | |||
| @] If you are going to accuse others of being SPAs and 'sleeper' accounts, you should probably disclose that since you've returned on September 9th, of edits you've made a total of two (2) that aren't gamergate related </nowiki>], </nowiki>]. You might want to put yourself under your 'sleeper account' category. Also, you might want to read up on ], ], and ] since you don't seem to grasp BLP violations. Finally, I've made multiple edits to multiple articles that don't just include video games. I'm pretty sure we've been over this when Ryulong accused everyone he disagreed with, including an administrator, of being an SPA. This looks like just another attempt to silence those that won't subscribe to your agenda. ] (]) 04:41, 29 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| === Statement by Willhesucceed === | |||
| I didn't get a notice or anything, so I don't know what I'm supposed to do, but I will aver, again, that I'm not an SPA. The admins can look at my contributions for evidence of that. I've barely even touched GamerGate in the past few days? week? | |||
| Some editors to the Gamergate article, now consisting of Tara and Ryulong, seem to be trying to abuse Misplaced Pages rules in order to get rid of people with whom they disagree. (I'm not the only one who gets this impression. See also Tutelary's and MuscratHoe's edits to this page.) | |||
| '''If the admins are at all interested in fixing the Gamergate article, they'll consider banning all editors that have thus far contributed to it, and letting others take over. I believe there's precedence for that course of action. It's probably the only way Misplaced Pages has a chance of turning out a decent article on the topic.''' | |||
| So, ya. Have a look at my history: not an SPA. And ban everyone from Gamergate. | |||
| Apologies if I'm not supposed to be contributing to this, but it only seems right that I get to respond to allegations. Have a good'un. ] (]) 04:53, 29 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| Addendum: you'll also notice that a lot? most? of my edits to articles related to Gamergate, such as ], ], and ] (and to a lesser extent ]; I'm sure I'm forgetting a few) aren't related to GamerGate, but are instead intended to improve the article as a whole. Gawker Media probably ''literally'' took me half a day, if not a day, ''in hours'', to update, but I did it because I wanted to contribute. | |||
| You'll ''also'' notice that most recently I've put a lot of time and effort into ] and ] in particular, and have also contributed to ], none of which anyone can claim have anything whatsoever to do with Gamergate. Earlier I've cleaned up ], merged an article into (for some reason I can never figure out how to link to this with Wiki markup), and have puttered about on the occasional other page. | |||
| Substantively, most of my edits probably have little to nothing to do with Gamergate. Probably something like 99% of my contribution to ] has been limited to the article's talk page, and a lot of the edits to the Gamergate talk page itself consist of me rewording myself, fixing spelling, or providing new sources. It's all there, if only people bothered to look at it. Those accusing me of being an SPA are engaging in bad faith and have not bothered to actually investigate. If they had, I wouldn't be here. ] (]) 05:59, 29 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| === Statement by TuxedoMonkey === | |||
| This statement is offered in light of my name coming up for possible sanctions. I freely admit to being a newly-registered account, and therefore I have a limited number of edits in a small set of topics. In deference to possible sensitivity to newcomers in the Gamergate article, I have limited myself to answering open questions on the talk page (with the exception of one unsolicited formatting suggestion) in what I consider to be a constructive and polite manner. I have never touched the article itself. If I have been disruptive, I welcome guidance and accept any sanctions that may have been unwittingly incurred. ] (]) 06:38, 29 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| ===Statement by halfhat=== | |||
| I've not got long so I'll add more later. The article has a lot of problems. It needs a lot of work, what's getting in the way is that people are routinely arguing about the subject (not the article), conflicts almost never come to any resolution, and many seem to have a accuse first ask questions later attitude. People calling others agenda pushers or whatever, without really backing it up. Another problem is that editors are largely divided into two camps, there's a bit of an "Us and Them" thing going on and it makes consensus really unlikely . Uh it's a mess. ] (]) 08:59, 29 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| === Statement by AnyyVen === | |||
| Like halfhat I current do not have long, but I will add more at my earliest availability. Generally Per Masem above, there are huge issues with the article; despite the fact that yes, overwhelmingly, most secondary sources are vocally negative of Gamergate, there is a notable push to use WP's policies in favour of "antiGG" material and against "proGG" material, very much along what is spoken of in WP:SYNTH, WP:NPOV, WP:IMPARTIAL, WP:WORDS, and WP:BIASED. The parties typically involved in this are Ryulong, TaraInDC, Tarc, TRPoD and NorthBySouthBaranof. I hate naming names but enough's enough. Generally these same editors are acrimonious in response, toeing the line of WP:CIVIL, WP:NPA and WP:BITE if not overstepping it. I believe Rylong in specific has defended himself with statements including that he "doesn't direct swears at people," and that he got in trouble for actually swearing I have noted this numerous times on the talk page as have others, and was a keystone in the that accused around two or three dozen editors of being SPAs, most of which were shown to be spurious and included administrators (furthermore including those who appeared in the discussion but disagreed with the plaintiff). In fact, it is these members who consistently accuse accounts of SPA activity which is, as noted on the WP:SPA page, considerable as a violation of WP:NPA. As far as my SPA activity, please see the AN discussion previously mentioned so that I don't waste your time by re-posting what has already been discussed; and since then, I've been relatively uninterested in Gamergate mostly because of the overwhelming animosity on that page, so please note my more recent edits and interests. Slow? Yes, but that's because I'm researching sources for new articles on obscure topics to do with Canada. As a doctoral student I don't have as much time as I'd like to contribute to Misplaced Pages. ] (]) 13:45, 29 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| === Statement by Protonk === | |||
| As Ryulong and Hasteur note, this topic has only recently been placed under general sanctions. I suggest the committee decline to hear this case not only because it's premature but because I honestly can't see a productive remedy coming out of it. Very few of arbcoms recent cases give me reason to believe that their involvement in a topic like this will be anything other than a waste of time for all involved. We'll have 4-5 weeks of workshopping and evidence and then ban 1 person and warn one or two long term editors about being a dick. We may even have a few findings of fact/principle where we rediscover the definition of POV pushing or something! There may be a point where the community is unwilling or unable to handle the obvious and constant off-site canvassing, but even then I'm not clear how arbcom can positively impact the situation. ] (]) 14:16, 29 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| ===Statement by Carrite=== | |||
| This one is headed for ArbCom sooner or later, with a number of POV warriors needing to be cleaned out. I agree with NY Brad's assessment that regular community processes have not reached stalemate, however, so this is best declined for now. ] (]) 18:30, 29 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| === Statement by Swim Jonse === | |||
| Condensed version of my reply to TaraInDC, since it must not be threaded: | |||
| :A - I am not a "sleeper" here, nor am I in any way, shape or form single purpose account. I and my interests in editing only recently began under this handle. You presume far too much with this and your classifications and where you feel someone is "pro-gamergate" if they're pro-neutrality. I have not remotely focused on "GamerGate" more than anything else, and of recent I was far more interested in cleaning up some band pages. This has happened concurrently. Generalization is never good. | |||
| :B - I do not see how I am impeding whatever you think is "progress" as I've not even edited this article even once. '''Again, I have not edited the article one time.''' I came to the '''talk page to make a recommendation.''' It comes as no surprise to me that there's so much controversy involved in something extremely simple if people are unwilling to work with people trying to provide a bridge between both sides of the topic. | |||
| :C (to nobody in particular) - if a couple comments on a talk page somehow garners this accusation, I don't really even want to be involved in this. I'm not here to sabotage an article. I'd said before that when I went into the Depression Quest article (which preceded "GamerGate") it was for the sake of neutrality. That article is now neutral. I distanced myself from "GamerGate" as soon as it became a hashtag as no one individual is qualified to speak for a group. However, if comments like "ban everyone from Gamergate" are being thrown around, that's even more incentive to distance myself from this article. Want to make some progress? Try being nice to each other and assuming less. ] (]) 17:07, 29 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| === Statement by ] === | |||
| I'm going to buck the trend here, and say that this is likely something that the Committee should take a deeper look at. We have an article here that is the ongoing focused attention of a group wanting to counteract negative mainstream media coverage of their pet issue. What I'm afraid of is that one side is attempting to win this battle not on the weight of ] and making sure sources have ], but instead by inflicting the Wikipedian version of "Death by a Thousand Cuts" on the folks trying to edit by Misplaced Pages's stated policies, continuing a low level harassment (more accurately badgering, but you get what I mean) campaign generally aimed at making them lose their cool and then being sanctioned away from the article, allowing the aggravating parties free(r) reign to slant the article more in their favor. Having the Committee look at this fully will provide a countermeasure to this tactic. ] (]) 00:21, 30 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| === Statement by ] === | |||
| I have so far refrained from editing this article because certain users dominate the article so much that any edits I make will be reverted within minutes. Looking at the talk page, however, I was appalled and shocked at the attitude of a group of Wikipedians who have consistently advanced a single point of view, while at the same time strongly opposing any contribution that does not actively have the exact same point of view that they espouse. In pursuing this goal, these Wikipedians have demonstrated a severe and consistent lack of civility, creating an extremely hostile and tense atmosphere on the talk pages. The beligerent attitude is shown even here, already, by TaraInDC's list of Wikipedians above me. Tara's very first contribution to this Arbcom is to accuse almost a dozen Wikipedians of a serious breach of Misplaced Pages rules, and call for their bans. And this is the second time such a list has been presented. The first time the list was presented, it was shown to contain numerous innocent Wikipedians. The fact that these people seem so eager to pursue such extreme measures on such a large number of Wikipedians who happen to oppose their point of view, is disturbing to me. Surely, there are SPA's involved in this matter. Making blanket lists is not the proper way to deal with this. I am also disappointed that the hostile behaviour of these Wikipedians has not resulted in stronger sanction already, and therefore I strongly support an Arbcom in order to end the bickering and incivility. ] (]) 21:14, 30 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :SirFozzie's claim veers into conspiracy-thinking. Would such a campaign of harassment not require actual organization, implying a conspiracy? More importantly, my experience of the talk-page has been the exact opposite of SirFozzie's experience. What I have witnessed is consistent uncivil and hostile behavior of a group of Wikipedians, who's often inflammatory posts and attitude has enticed people to enter the debate in order to oppose them. I would argue that people come to Misplaced Pages with the expectation to find a neutral source of information. If these people then see that an article is being dominated by a group of Wikipedians who continuously show hostile and uncivil behaviour to anyone who dares question their view, they might be motivated to respond themselves. I do not question the fact that quite a number of these people have themselves responded in hostile and uncivil behaviour. And I am quite sure a few of them did so without direct provocation. But by far the most consistent source of uncivil behaviour has come from the group that dominates the article at the moment. ] (]) 21:32, 30 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| === Statement by (editor) === | |||
| <!-- Other editors are free to make relevant comment on this request as necessary. | |||
| Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the case request or provide additional information. | |||
| Please copy this section for the next person. --> | |||
| === Clerk notes === | |||
| :''This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).'' | |||
| === Gamergate: Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter <0/2/1/4> === | |||
| {{anchor|1=Gamergate: Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter}}<small>Vote key: (Accept/decline/recuse/other)</small> | |||
| *As Ryulong, Tarc, and Hasteur have noted, the community has recently authorized general sanctions for the Gamergate topic-area, including that "any uninvolved administrator may, at his or her own discretion, impose sanctions on any editor that edits pages related to the Gamergate controversy, if, after being notified of the existence of these sanctions, that editor repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process." Editors in favor of our accepting this request should discuss how involvement by this Committee could potentially result in a more useful outcome than this, and whether we should hold off on accepting any case until we see whether the new sanctions are effective. If they are, there may be no need to accept a case. If they are not, I would consider taking and even expediting a case to deal with problems such as aggressive SPA involvement in a troubled article (compare, ]). ] (]) 15:14, 28 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| **I ask the interested parties to comment on SirFozzie's argument for acceptance, above. ] (]) 01:23, 30 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| *Agree with NYB. I'm not seeing that the community authorized sanctions have failed, they've barely been given a chance to succeed. More robust use of that process currently looks like a better solution that a month or two of deliberation here, but I am willing to be convinced. ] (]) 17:50, 28 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| *I like Hasteur's suggestion and would propose to suspend this request for three weeks, to see whether the community-authorised sanctions help solve the dispute or they don't and, so, it becomes necessary for us to intervene. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em;" class="texhtml"> ''']'''</span> ] 19:06, 28 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| *I'd happy to suspend for 3 weeks, but I'm also happy to '''decline''' without prejudice to a new case if the community-authorised sanctions do not work. ]<sup>TT</sup>(]) 08:29, 29 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Recuse'''. ] <small>]</small> 23:48, 29 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| *I'm also generally inclined to see if the community restrictions can successfully resolve this issue. I'm inclined toward either a decline without prejudice toward a future request, or to suspend this request to see if a few weeks' time means the situation indicates review is still needed. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 08:40, 30 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| * '''Decline''', and I also oppose the "tentative acceptance" solution proposed above. This is not a dispute that I think arbitration could resolve. ] ]] 23:23, 30 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
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