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Revision as of 23:49, 22 November 2014 editDoctor Papa Jones (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users21,892 edits Undid revision 635028342 by Diego Grez (talk) Reverted obvious vandalism by a now-blocked user← Previous edit Latest revision as of 15:30, 28 December 2024 edit undoLee Vilenski (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Bureaucrats, Administrators74,965 edits Inactive nominations: ReplyTags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit Advanced mobile edit Reply 
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This is the '''discussion''' page for ] (GAN) and the ] in general. To ask a question or start a discussion about the good article nomination process, click the Add topic link above. Please check and see if your question may already be answered; click the link to the Frequently asked questions below or search the Archives below. If you are here to discuss concerns with a specific review, please consider discussing things with the reviewer first before posting here.
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== Old nomination ==

I nominated ] in February and now it's the oldest nominee that hasn't been reviewed. I realize it's a pretty big article. Does anyone want to split up the review to make it easier to digest? When I started this process I didn't realize it would take so long. ] (]) 18:46, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

:I am planning to start it on Sunday. The only reason I'm starting it on Sunday and not now (or 4 weeks ago) is that I don't have time to start until Sunday and it seemed unfair for me to "start" a review and not actually start it for a few weeks when someone might pick have picked it up in the interim. ] (]) 19:22, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks so much! ] (]) 19:27, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

== Splitting sections ==

===Historical figures: politicians ===

In Historical figures: politicians at ], I have spun out American figures into "Historical figures: politicians - United States". Considering that over half of the articles were American figures, this seemed to be the logical split. There were some Hawaiian and pre-American Revolution figures that I made judgement calls on where to place, so a second look is appreciated. ] (]) 20:44, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

:] and ] seem to be Canadian, ] British, aside from that the rest seem reasonably placed. If the pre-US figures on the East coast are included, it doesn't seem misleading to include pre-US Hawaiian figures. Are there other Robert Whites we could promote? ] (]) 15:34, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
::I moved Armstrong, Parlby and Philipson to the general section. I included pre-US figures on the east coast if the majority of their biography concerns their governance of the colonies. Hawaii was its own civilization and if it wasn't a US state it would probably be considered part of Polynesia/Oceania. I moved Hawaiian figures to US politicians if a significant part of their governance took place when the US controlled the area. I am still open to moving some figures if consensus is otherwise. ] (]) 15:42, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Nothing stopping anyone considering Hawaii part of Polynesia/Oceania now! Anyway, from a casual reader POV, I would expect them to expect Hawaiian figures in the United States subsection. Anachronism has its place in navigation, and history was what it was, and now is what it is. ] (]) 15:46, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

===Splitting "Historical figures: other"===
I have spun out European figures from "Historical figures: other", which was about half of the listings in that category. I invite editors to take a look and fix any errors I have made. Thanks, ] (]) 20:26, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

:Oh, thank you! I wanted to bring up the historical figures other category - I feel like the vast majority of entries are inproperly placed there. I scanned through and there were lots of political activists and officials that I feel are better placed somewhere else. Additionally, I think there's some which could be spun off into their own category - "Criminals and assassins" def. seems like it could be its own category of historical person, for instance. <small> ] (]) (it/she) </small> 22:08, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
::If you want to shift historical figures within that page (ie, not to another GA list) I encourage you to be bold, it's not the most curated structure. (Same for anything in Music.) ] (]) 03:57, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
:::{{re|Generalissima}} ] was someone who I think should be moved, though I do not know which section to put him in (his talk page has him listed in Sports and Rec, but I think he was mostly known for being a conservationist and entertainer). As for new history sections: I agree with CMD. I think criminals is a good idea as it makes the section smaller. I also agree with music, but that might be a discussion for a new section below. ] (]) 16:03, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

====Historical figures: bureaucrats and administrators split?====

After looking at the articles left over in Historical figures: other, another split might be bureaucrats and administrators. This could be defined as government officials who were never elected to their position (and are therefore not politicians). Thoughts? ] (]) 22:00, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

:I think that'd be a good idea. One final category of "sort-of-politicians-but-not" could be activists, which I've seen a lot of in that category. <small> ] (]) (it/she) </small> 22:34, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
::{{re|Generalissima}} After going through the "other" category (again) I think an "activist, revolutionary, anarchist and suffragette" category would be appropriate. ] (]) 02:57, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Bit of a mouthful - I think "Activists and revolutionaries" encompasses all four <small> ] (]) (it/she) </small> 04:31, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
::::{{re|Generalissima}} Works for me. ] (]) 15:15, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
::I have created the "bureaucrats and administrators" category per this discussion. My next step is to go through the "other" category and move biographies to more appropriate categories. ] (]) 02:57, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

== New editor incorrectly starting GANRs ==

{{u|Velthorian}} has opened three GAN reviews in the past 24 hours, and passed and failed one each without any actual review. Can those articles be put back in the queue (especially bcs the upcoming GAN backlog drive encourages the review of older GANs more), and someone help them understand the ] on how to review properly. I have asked them before on one of the review ] and {{u|Remsense}} has also msged them on their talk page. ] (]) 13:38, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

:Given discussion has already been opened, I have reset ]. Of course, if Velthorian reopens that GAN it can be taken out of the queue again. ] has already been reset. ] has not started, so let's see, it can be G7ed. ] (]) 14:17, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
::@] @], Thank you for bringing this up! My nomination for UNICEF has been active since March 2024, and has been in the "oldest unreviewed good article nominations" box for a number of weeks now. Is there any way that this article could not go through the whole queue again? I understand if that's not possible, its just really unfortunate because of how long the nom had waited. Cheers! ]] 14:48, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
:::It has been reinserted in its old position in the "queue" (in effect, it never left the queue) ] (]) 14:57, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
::::@] Thank You! 🙂 ]] 15:06, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

== Nonsensical review ==

I believe {{yo|Infoadder95}}'s ] of ] to be nonsensical. Despite the review claiming otherwise, every single claim in the article is backed up. The review's Lack of Neutrality section accuses the article of containing several quotes that it simply doesn't have. Could someone else have a look?--<span style="background:#FF0;font-family:Rockwell Extra Bold">]]]</span> 22:38, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

:seems like a pretty clearly Chat-GPT generated review. <small> ] (]) (it/she) </small> 22:48, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
:I think we can add ] to that list as well, as it seems to reference a bunch of things that aren't actually in the article. For example:
:* {{tq|Add more inline citations to the "Notable residents" and "Cultural significance" sections, as some claims lack direct sourcing.}} - ] doesn't have sections with either of these names, nor is any of the content lacking direct sourcing.
:* {{tq|- **Cultural Impact:** While the "Cultural significance" section touches on Tudor City's appearances in media, it could delve deeper into how it has influenced perceptions of urban living in New York City.}} - As mentioned above, this article doesn't have a "Cultural significance" section. It does, however, have a "Critical reception" section, which does include some commentary about that exact topic.
:* {{tq|However, certain phrases, such as "masterpiece of urban planning," could be perceived as promotional.}} - That phrase does not appear in the article.
:{{pb}}As such, can someone take a look at this as well? I suspect this may have been an LLM-generated review. &ndash; ] (]) 23:07, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
::I would support banning from the entire GA process editors who use LLMs to generate their reviews. I agree that the claims of unsourced claims in the Swim School review are directly contradicted by a brief look at the article and its history, and the wording of the Tudor City review looks canned and generic. At the least, some explanation here by Infoadder95 would be warranted. Further scrutiny of Infoadder95's other edits beyond GA may also be a good idea. , for instance, looks like others I have seen involving the use of an LLM to copyedit paragraphs, in some cases making the wording more promotional. I note that Infoadder95 has a current GA nomination, for ]. —] (]) 00:01, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
:::I am sorry if the article does seem like an LLM, but due to me not being to able to code in Wiki-text, and me not being able to use the visual editor in talk pages or when making reviews so I have to take the help of AI to turn my review into wikitext so it can be used in the article talk page. So some of the passages may seem like "Generic" and "AI generated", due to AI despite being given clear instructions to not alter the content.
:::If the majority opinion is against my review, I might be able to revise it, this is my first time reviewing nominees so I might make mistakes. If you have issues with specific portions of my review we can discuss it, or even ask for the consensus of other editors as well ask for a second review.
:::And to reply to the last part of your part of our message, I don't use LLMs for copyediting purposes or editing articles, if you suspect me of such, I am unable to do anything but wait patently. ] (]) 00:08, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
::::I agree with David. You have no business reviewing GAs if your ability is so lacking that you must rely on a text generator to do the work for you, especially when you're not even bothering to make sure that it hasn't hallucinated something. &spades;]&spades; ] 00:13, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::Now that the use of LLM for the reviews has been admitted, we should at least cancel both reviews and restore the two articles to the queue with their original nomination dates. —] (]) 00:16, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::Thanks for not suggesting exiling me in the barren land of banned accounts ] (]) 00:19, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::I thought I could take part in January Backlog drive but this experience has taught me otherwise, thank you for your patience fellow Wikipedians. ] (]) 00:21, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
::::@], despite these flawed reviews, I wanted to thank you for your honesty. Although editors shouldn't be using large language models for good article reviews (or really, for any kind of content review), hopefully this can be a learning experience so the same mistake isn't repeated in the future. ] (]) 03:43, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::Thanks ] (]) 12:45, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Thanks for your suggestion, I think refraining from reviews till I get a bit seasoned is the best option for me now, I might as well spend some time time learning wiki-text.
:::If you suspect that I lack the capability to review articles and write quality reviews, you are mistaken but if you think that I lack the ability to use wiki-text and edit the source, then you are absolutely right. ] (]) 00:18, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
::::{{u|Infoadder95}}, please nominate both reviews above for ], to aid cleanup of the errors. Thanks. ] (]) 00:51, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::Ok ] (]) 00:55, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::I have deleted them both. You tagged them G11 (the wrong tag), which could have caused a problem if someone else got to them first and didn't understand why they were tagged, but fortunately that didn't happen. —] (]) 01:22, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

{{ping|Infoadder95}} you just "reviewed" ] in the same manner? May I ask why when you said less than 24 hours ago that you "I think refraining from reviews till I get a bit seasoned is the best option for me now"? ] (]) 17:38, 25 December 2024 (UTC)


:I did not use LLMs this time, I copied the wiki-text from my sandbox and pasted it into the sub talk page. And what is your criticism of my review now, that it does not meet your standards or that it was done by me. Is it wrong according to Good article criteria or you just hate me. Please highlight what did you meant by "same manner".
__TOC__
:And how am I supposed to get seasoned without reviewing, if the people on the talk page don't object and nominator/s don't object what is the problem I may ask. And do you think I am rubber stamper or someone just afraid to fail a nominee after my last encounter, If so you should read the ] and also don't forget to read the ] and come and tell me If I violated something and also read ], and tell me if there is something from here present in my review. If the nominators/s have a problem or two I am obliged to listen and reopen the review.
:And lastly, what is your purpose to stalk me? ] (]) 18:00, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
::Nobody is stalking you, but when someone publicly says "I'm not going to do " and then immediately goes back to doing the thing, it's not a great look. &spades;]&spades; ] 18:02, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
:::@] Great, so what should I do, should I never do a review again in my life? I have a question; what is wrong with my review on ], please I need your opinion so I can improve reviews next in line if I get any ] (]) 18:09, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
::::You have really got to stop putting words in peoples' mouths. No one has said you can never do another review ever in your life. You yourself said you would be refraining until you were "seasoned", yet you immediately did another review! There is a lot of space between "review again immediately" and "never review again", and waiting even a few weeks would have put you in a position of much less judgement. &spades;]&spades; ] 18:19, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::Yes, {{u|Infoadder95}}, all editors are supposed to ] - which you are not, by asking me why "I hate you" and "am stalking you", which seems to be casting ]. And you also said you would not review before learning, and try to understand what the issues with your reviews were. ] (]) 18:30, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::I have been issued a warning on my talk page for using LLMs on ] which I did not, yes I did use them on the 2 reviews before but I completely wrote this one myself, what seems to be the issue. ] (]) 18:35, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::I have replied to that below.
:::::::As for why you have warned of LLM usage- even in the case you didn't (which seems weird, as some of the links are missing, which seems unlikely to be done by a human hand), you have copied the format of your last two reviews, which is why they seem LLM generated, even if they might or might not be. ] (]) 18:38, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::Ok I quit reviewing, this is probably not a task for me. ] (]) 18:37, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
::I'll tell you how the review does not meet the criteria in some time if you want, but I would like to address the other points. "or you just hate me."- I do not, I just brought it up bcs it's wrong according to the criteria- you list issues in the review which very much mean that the article does not meet the criteria yet, or would be if some, if not all, of them were not incorrect. You get seasoned by reading the criteria and instructions properly and seeing other's people reviews.
::I'm not stalking you, I was just checking what reviews have been passed/failed today till now as there has many incorrect reviews the past few weeks. ] (]) 18:09, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
:::@] Ok please tell me what is wrong with my review, me listing issues does not mean that the article does not qualify, instead they are the areas of improvement. Let me ask you, if you deem that one citation from one section of the whole article is unreliable or does not support the claim it is next to, will you fail the whole well written article or just bring it up so it can be addressed. Or another example; if the lead section is good but it can be a bit shorter, will you just fail the whole article.
:::And please don't forget to tell me that what is wrong with my review. ] (]) 18:16, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
::Minor-ish issues: you do not need to explain the GA criteria, just have to say they pass or fail bcs of this or that reason. And you should not highlight your reviews with a background colour, it's distracting.
::Major issues- you have passed it despite you saying there are issues. (added after your reply) yes, bring it up, let it be fixed, do not just pass the article, as it very clearly states in the instructions, and what you would know if you had checked other reviews.
::major issue 2: travolta is mentioned in ref 2 for the first sentence. The garfield cite is Variety- which is reliable, (and which you have also misplaced from the review, as its blank there). I might be able to find more, but the review is written badly, and it's hard to check what is and what isn't a problem. ] (]) 18:26, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Thanks for highlighting, I think I should not probably not review again, and I think it is for the better of Misplaced Pages and it's community. ] (]) 18:39, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
::::You may return, if you read and understand the ] and have checked how a reviews are supposed to work. Though probably not for a few weeks or maybe months. Misplaced Pages will always be grateful to all editors who can do whatever they are doing correctly. ] (]) 18:43, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
::::@] There is no need to make this personal or be self-depricating. When you edit on a public space like Misplaced Pages, people are going to point out your mistakes. Responding to critisism is a lifelong skill that takes awhile to learn. The best thing you can do is acknowledge your mistakes, clean up your mistakes, educate yourself, do better in the future, and move on. Maybe you're not quite at a place in your Misplaced Pages editing where you can contribute to qaulity articles. And that's okay. But know your limits. ]] <sup>(])</sup> 20:59, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::Thanks ] (]) 14:38, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
I forgot this earlier, but could someone reset the review to it's original state with the original date, to ensure it gets a proper review. ] (]) 20:57, 25 December 2024 (UTC)


:Done, although it's a weird one given it was a pass. If the problems raised are correct and it was a fail, I would not have put it back in the queue, so hopefully they will be addressed. ] (]) 01:36, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
== ] ==


== A streamlining of the GAN review process? ==
Can someone please take over the review at ]. I am really busy currently and don't have time. I am sorry for the problems this may cause. - ''']''' (Used to be '''NickGibson3900''')<sup>''']</sup>''' 05:03, 14 November 2014 (UTC)


I was looking at some old nominations today that were under review, to check if any could be eligible for the January backlog drive (there are two, and I have pinged the reviewers there)- and I saw many reviews that were abandoned: there had not been a single comments in these reviews for months in many cases. This, plus the above two topics of new reviewers incorrectly starting reviews (and many similar cases in this talk page's archive) was making me wonder if we could make some changes to the process. Some of the changes could include- reviews without comments for a long time could also be seen in the report sub-page (or somewhere more prominent), a change in the template to show on the talk page when a review was started (just like it shows when a nom occurred), some co-ordinators to give at least a cursory glance to reviews: bad reviews might still slip through, but they would very much reduce in quantity. We can't just rely on the nom and reviewer, as even 3rd parties might like to help make it reach GA by nom-ing or reviewing it, and the whole process to ask so on the talk page and wait (which in many cases also sometimes lead nowhere) turns many off. I know some of the changes would be hard to implement, especially bcs of the needed eyes and hands, but I think at least some changes could be made. ] (]) 07:59, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
== ] nominated in March, awaiting unnecessary second opinion since 10 September ==


:There seem to be two issues here. I'm not quite yet sure how to tackle "substandard reviews", but here are my thoughts on abananded reviews.
On 10 September, the reviewer, ], requested a second opinion "from someone who knows more about the area than ". The article is not complex (the concerns were easy to deal with) and he is not a new reviewer, so I do not see why the nomination needs a second opinion. I nominated the article on 2 March and although I understand there is a huge backlog, would like someone to follow up on this soon. --] (]) 11:14, 16 November 2014 (UTC)
:* I certainly agree that we need a better way to track apparently abananded reviews. Currently, ] shows where the reviewer is inactive for a certain number of days. (I don't know anything about bots but) I suspect it would be fairly easy to change this to number of days without an edit on review page, which will make it easier to track editors who have abandened reviews but are still active (which is a much bigger problem; and no point having both). ({{ping|Mike Christie}} who operates the bot which updates this page)
:Note that the ] lists ] as the second oldest nomination. The reviewer, ], posted above requesting someone take over another of his reviews. --] (]) 08:06, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
:*Would it be possible to add a section for review's which haven't be edited for a certain number of days onto the ], again so we can track potentionally abananded reviews. ({{ping|Wugapodes}} who operates the bot which updates this page) Yes, we already have a section for reviews lasting over seven days. But some reviews will legitamtly last over seven days. And this section is also overpopulated with reviews that were temporily abandened. (i.e. the review is now actively ongoing). This makes it difficult to see the wood from the trees.:*I think we should be more aggresive with following up on reviews. I think that if a review has not been touched for (picking these time frames out of thin air) 14 days we provide a message on the review page, tagging the reviewer, with a message where we chase up the review and '''if they have not reaffirmed their commitment within 7 days the review will be considered abananded and reset inline with the recommendations at ]'''. If they reaffirm their commitment and don't follow through we will also just reset the nomination. If we hardcode that into the instructions it will also (hopefully) rectify part of the problem and enbolden nominaters who feel their review has stalled.
: ] (]) 14:32, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
::True, and I was thinking also a separate page to list the GANRs with these issues- like inactive noms or reviewers are listed on WP:GAN, but it needs to be searched, which while each, could be made more straightforward. ] (]) 20:09, 27 December 2024 (UTC)


== Drive by review ==
== Notability missing from GA criteria ==


Curtosy ping {{ping|CapeVerdeWave|12george1}} I stumbled upon ] while looking at older nominations for the January 2025 GAN backlog drive and found this review. There is no evidence that a review took place here and the review was all done within one edit. While I haven't done a thourough read through of the article in question so it may be fine but the review itself does not seem up to standards. ]] <sup>(])</sup> 16:49, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Did you know that ] is not mentioned in the Good article criteria? Please see the discussion posted at ]. ] (]) 16:39, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
:{{ping|IntentionallyDense}} So you think I should provide more detail to justify the GA? In what areas, if so? I thought the summary seemed sufficient. ] (]) 16:54, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
::@] Per ] {{tq|Read the whole article. Understand its sources. Based on the Good article criteria, determine whether the article should be quick failed. An in-depth review must be provided in all other cases. This must include a spot-check of a sample of the sources in the article to verify that each source supports the text in the article that it covers, and that no copyrighted material has been added to the article from the source.}}
::The part that is missing in your review is the in depth part. Sometimes there is articles where nothing or very little has to be changed. In this case it is more helpful to say something along the lines of "This article passes criteria 1 because xyz, I know this because I checked xyz" (modify as needed ofc). This is especially important when it comes to the sources. For example I would usually write something along the lines of "this article uses reliable sources without plagerising content, I checked sources 2, 4, 8, 19, and 20 and found no issues".
::However it is very rare for an article to have absolutely no issues. For example the article in question has some overlinking which while not technically in the GA criteria, can reduce readibility and make it look overly technical. For example, countries are linked which is generally not needed. ]] <sup>(])</sup> 17:04, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Even an article with no issues needs a spotcheck. ] (]) 01:37, 26 December 2024 (UTC)


== Discussion at the Village Pump ==
== Abandoned nominations ==


There's a discussion at ] related to good article nominations. ] (]) 22:19, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
For those who've abandoned GAN's they started reviewing, should there perhaps be a set point at which it's best to close as unsuccessful? The backlog would otherwise be held up for an indeterminate length. '''] (] / ])''' 06:05, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
:How would it be fair to the nominator if the nomination was closed as unsuccessful because of an MIA reviewer? ''']'''</span> 06:30, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
::Beforehand, a note would be left on the review page reminding both nominator and reviewer of review and lack of activity. If it goes unanswered for a certain amount of time, the nomination would be closed. The nominator could renominate afterwards. '''] (] / ])''' 06:42, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
:::Nominations can sit on this page for over half of a year, so telling someone "just renominate it" is much easier said than done. If the nominator goes inactive on the review, it's fair to say to close it as unsuccessful after fair warning, but if a reviewer goes inactive, it's probably better to just ask here for a new reviewer - there's often someone around willing to pick those reviews up. ''']'''</span> 06:46, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
::::If I wait six months for a review, which the reviewer abandons, then my nomination is closed without review and I am asked to renominate, that would discourage me from writing further GAs. I hope that does not happen with ]. --] (]) 08:00, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
:::::what rules are in place if a reviewer does abandon? It should be cause to block accts in my opinion. Its detrimental to further collaboration.. More so than a simple vandal any day. If you can't do somethin right, you best off not do it at all.] <sup style="font-size:9px;">] ]</sup> 21:10, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
::::::{{Replyto|David Condrey}} Both nominators and reviewers are humans, who may have busy schedules and may have to abandon nominations (or reviews) due to unforeseen circumstances. I sometimes take ] ] to fix all issues raised by a reviewer. Since I really appreciate patience from reviewers, I believe reviewers similarly appreciate patience from nominators. "If you can't do somethin right, you best off not do it at all" is ] ]. --] (])
] seems to have stalled again, the nominator disappeared back in April and the current review seems to be dead in the water. If I had to pick one to IAR and fail due to lack of activity, that would be it. ] ] ] 14:36, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
:{{Replyto|Ritchie333}} How about I change the GA nominee template at ] to point to GA2 (not yet created) instead of GA1, per ]? --] (]) 15:24, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
::I don't think that'll help you, I'm afraid. You need someone with a subject knowledge. I've done quite a few geography articles, but I wouldn't know the Sungei Road from the ] from the ]. Sorry. ] ] ] 15:23, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
:::Why? I review lots of GANs outside my normal areas of interest, and appreciate others taking on mine in the same fashion. In fact, in a recent review I started of ] I explicitly said I didn't know anything about the subject going in and was only reviewing to learn. A diverse reviewer pool helps reduce the likelihood we'll be speaking to an echo chamber - if nothing else, it increases accessibility. ] (]) 15:41, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
::::I can certainly appreciate that sentiment, granted, but my point was more than nobody has been prepared to give the requested second opinion on the original review. If you'd like to pick the review up and finish it off, I'm sure that would be very much appreciated. ] ] ] 15:44, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
:::::{{u|Ritchie333}}, I'd personally rather not with that one specifically, because of my own strong feelings against the way the mainstream social justice movement and academia conceive social inequality, which could cloud my ability to be neutral. I'll gladly take another, though, if you've got any ideas. ] (]) 04:25, 21 November 2014 (UTC)


== New reviewer required ==
===Current procedure===
This is not official by any means, but in my experience we do not fail the nomination if the problem is reviewer abandonment. After suitable notifications establish that the nominator is still interested (if frustrated) and the reviewer has either disappeared or is no longer interested, the nomination is put back in the nominations pool with its seniority intact, and gets picked up sooner rather than later. This is like what we've done when an incompetent reviewer starts up a bunch of reviews, and they need to be unwound without penalizing the nominator. I would be opposed to the proposal that initiated this section to close the nomination as unsuccessful, as the only failure here is on the part of the reviewer. I do agree that at some point the review needs to be considered abandoned, and effectively taken away from the reviewer who abandoned it—we've had to do this many times in the past, and it will continue to happen. ] (]) 03:42, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
:If anyone seriously started failing articles due to reviewer inactivity, then I'll just revert them, since that's stupid. Either take it up yourself or just place it back in the queue, which takes maybe two minutes. ] 03:53, 21 November 2014 (UTC)


Hello, could I kindly request a new reviewer for the article ]? The previous reviewer has been inactive for some time and was unable to complete the GA review. Many thanks in advance. ] (]) 05:10, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
==Messed up nom.==
Hi, I was trying to nominate ] but I think I did in incorrectly because I mistakenly hit the link to create a page thinking I should do that to complete the nom. and only afterwards realized that it says to do so only when / if I were going to review the article. Could someone help me fix it please. Thx. ] <sup style="font-size:9px;">] ]</sup> 10:43, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
:No worries, I have tagged it for speedy deletion. ] (]) 21:18, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
::Thanks. I was unsure what the proper action would be. I still want to get this nominated though.. Thx ] <sup style="font-size:9px;">] ]</sup> 21:23, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
:::It will remain in the nomination queue. Only the review page which you created will be deleted; potential reviewers will then see that no review has been started, and can then take up the review themselves. ] (]) 23:00, 18 November 2014 (UTC)


:Unfortunately it looks like the reviewer had a bit more of the article to go. I have reset the nomination. If the reviewer returns they are welcome to reopen the old GAN. ] (]) 05:21, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
== What if an IP takes up a GA review? ==


== Inactive GAN review ==
An IP has taken up the GAN for '']''. The FAQ here says that such a review is not allowed, but a remedy is not provided. ] (]) 15:37, 19 November 2014 (UTC)


Hi! I nominated the page ] for GA on 25 August and ] started on 1 September 2024. Then, in two days he has gone off-wiki and hasn't returned yet; it's been almost 4 months since his last edit. Can an admin reset the review page, so it could be included in the upcoming backlog drive. (]).
:The review page should be speedy deleted and the nominator informed on their talk page that reviewers must have registered accounts (and have experience). I suspect this is someone who just clicked on a link and got a bit more than they bargained for. I've marked the page for deletion; once it has been deleted I'll update the article talk page to show the article isn't under review. (I don't want to do that now, as it could cause a collision if someone tries to open a new review while the old page is extant.) ] (]) 17:54, 19 November 2014 (UTC)


Courtesy ping: @]. <span class="nowrap"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;color:#50B849;">'''''Vestrian24Bio'''''</span> (<small>]</small>)</span> 13:17, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
== ] abandoning reviewing process.. ==


:I have applied the instructions laid out at ] to the nomination. ] (]) 13:46, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
Hi, I just want to inform here that the two articles I nominate which have been reviewed by ] have been abandon by him during the reviewing process. After seven days, when I ask him on ] on what suggestions, problems or improvements should be done on the articles to meet the GA status, he did not replied to my message instead deactivating his facebook. I requested if there is any reviewers can continue the reviewing process. <span style="font-size:1.0em; font-family:Cyrillic,serif;">]<sup>&nbsp;]</sup></span> 00:57, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
:It has been not quite a month since their last edit overall, but combined with the more than 3 months since the last edit to the GAN I have reset the nomination. ] (]) 13:47, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
:Huh? What do you mean, Facebook? ], why don't you try to communicate to this editor on their Misplaced Pages User Talk page? This editor appears to be taking a short Wikibreak as they have not edited for the past week; be patient; they will probably return soon. What are these articles that you nominated? ] (]) 05:30, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
::Haha, looks like I was beaten to the punch. ] (]) 13:48, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
::@], I had email him before and he gives his Facebook link for easy contact, but the facebook has since been deactivated. From his last message, I don't thinks he want to reviewed it anymore. But nevermind, another ] already help me to delete the reviewing forms. Anyway, thanks! The articles I nominated is ] and ]. <span style="font-size:1.0em; font-family:Cyrillic,serif;">]<sup>&nbsp;]</sup></span> 06:08, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
::Thanks. <span class="nowrap"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;color:#50B849;">'''''Vestrian24Bio'''''</span> (<small>]</small>)</span> 13:57, 27 December 2024 (UTC)


== Bot having trouble marking reviews as passed? == == Inactive reviews ==


I was checking inactive reviews due to the backlog drive coming up, and I saw the following:
The bot seems to have a problem marking new reviews that have closed as a pass. It blanked ] once without comment which I assumed was a glitch, then it did it again I then double checked the talk header, which is now which as far as I know is correct ... and Legobot silently took it off the queue with a summary of ''maintenance'' again! What's going on? ] ] ] 11:29, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
*<s>]: I think the reviewer said they are fine with a second reviewer, but haven't marked it as such. Plus the nom has been inactive for 24 days.</s>
*:Relisted.
*]: The reviewer has been inactive for more than a month, but it does look almost finished, so maybe it should be marked as needing a second opinion?
*:Luckily this review seems substantially complete, unlike a couple of others from the same reviewer, and the reviewer seemed broadly positive on it. If there are no objections, this one might take a light lookover and pass.
*<s>]: Have had no review despite being open for more than 3 months</s>
*:Relisted.
*]: Also have had no review even after being open for three months
*:Reviewer has not edited since the ping three days ago, giving this one a bit more time.
*<s>]: The reviewer barely started and have been inactive for more than a month</s>
*:Relisted.
*]: Had no edits for a month, then had a week of reviewing, and then again has no edits for a month
*:A bit more of a confusing one, probably should be relisted, but I've dropped a note on the reviewer talkpage.
*]: The reviewer had filled out a review template, but has said nothing, or failed it (as they marked in the template), maybe they are inexperienced
*:Opened just this month, dropped a note on the user talkpage.
*]: New reviewer did not review, just marked it GA on the talk page, and has not been editing for two weeks (after having not edited for 3.5 months)
*:This one is a bit weird, usually I'd wait longer given the review just opened, but, given the talkpage action, the lack of activity in general, and the upcoming drive, not opposed to relisting sooner.
Can something be done about these- either marked as needing another reviewer, or reset, as seems best? ] (]) 07:11, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
:Thanks for checking all this. I've relisted three obvious cases in line with my understanding of our precedents, other comments above. ] (]) 08:01, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks. There are even more GANRs similar to the above, but they were all started around less than a month ago, so I only mentioned the most egregious ones. Might do a similar check around the middle of next month. ] (]) 08:08, 28 December 2024 (UTC)


== Inactive nominations ==
== ] alphabetization issues ==


Hi! It's great that the bot now mentions when there has been a while since a nominator has made an edit. I usually give a talk message to the user before picking up a review, but I don't think there is a requirement for this as of yet.
There was no response before this got archived at ] from what I can tell. From what I recall, ] still had a few alphabetization issues to resolve:
#Rise seems to remain malplaced after
#:My last comment: "For some reason you understand where Rise belongs alphabetically, but seem to be challenged in terms of being able to actually move it to the right location in the list. at 21:03, 13 November 2014 (UTC)" --] <small>(] / ] / ] / ] / ])</small> 18:34, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
::::I will fix this. ] (]) 13:41, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
#Your effort to correct with leaves Walther von Brauchitsch and <s>Charles Heaphy</s> out of place.
#:My last comment: "It seems that these entries are in the W part of the alphabetical listing where the issue is wheather Walter comes before Walther. at 21:06, 13 November 2014 (UTC)" --] <small>(] / ] / ] / ] / ])</small> 18:34, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
::::Will also fix this today. ] (]) 13:41, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
#What gives with ?
When you get a chance please respond.--] <small>(] / ] / ] / ] / ])</small> 18:34, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
::::I don't understand this question? ] (]) 13:41, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
:Tony, I will be home very soon. I will respond then. ] (]) 18:37, 21 November 2014 (UTC)


To streamline our nomination process and take out articles which won't ever have their reviews addressed, could we maybe get the bot to ping users after, say 30 days, of their last edit and confirm they still want the review. If they don't return to editing by 45 days (or whatever), then the nomination is pulled.
== Poor closure of GA review ==


The resources of reviews are low enough to not have to address reviews of inactive nominators. An example of this happening manually can be found here: . '''] <sup>(] • ])</sup>''' 15:19, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
An editor has failed the GA review for the ] article. He cites "NPOV" issues, but has not actually said what these NPOV issues are. He says the article is "unstable", but the "edit war" he referred to was long resolved before the review started, and was merely the product of IP vandalism. He did not give the submitting editor nearly enough time to respond to his concerns. In fact, I fear that the reviewer has a severe bias himself, and has failed the article as a result. This seems unacceptable. A well-meaning editor who has been working on this article for months, who has suffered a five month queue, was not even given the light of day. I'm starting to become quite cynical about this GA process, as it seems that it really is a system that drives editors away, rather than helping them improve articles. ] — ] 19:14, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
:Lee, are you thinking of the same approach as suggested ]? Or just for nominations where the review has not yet been started? ] (] - ] - ]) 15:25, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
::Not yet started. Whilst I appreciate it's hard when doing a review for a non-active nominator, I'd like to avoid it before we get that far. '''] <sup>(] • ])</sup>''' 15:30, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 15:30, 28 December 2024

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This page has archives. Sections older than 7 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III.

Old nomination

I nominated Atlanta Braves in February and now it's the oldest nominee that hasn't been reviewed. I realize it's a pretty big article. Does anyone want to split up the review to make it easier to digest? When I started this process I didn't realize it would take so long. Nemov (talk) 18:46, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

I am planning to start it on Sunday. The only reason I'm starting it on Sunday and not now (or 4 weeks ago) is that I don't have time to start until Sunday and it seemed unfair for me to "start" a review and not actually start it for a few weeks when someone might pick have picked it up in the interim. SSSB (talk) 19:22, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
Thanks so much! Nemov (talk) 19:27, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Splitting sections

Historical figures: politicians

In Historical figures: politicians at WP:GA, I have spun out American figures into "Historical figures: politicians - United States". Considering that over half of the articles were American figures, this seemed to be the logical split. There were some Hawaiian and pre-American Revolution figures that I made judgement calls on where to place, so a second look is appreciated. Z1720 (talk) 20:44, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

George S. Armstrong and Irene Parlby seem to be Canadian, Mabel Philipson British, aside from that the rest seem reasonably placed. If the pre-US figures on the East coast are included, it doesn't seem misleading to include pre-US Hawaiian figures. Are there other Robert Whites we could promote? CMD (talk) 15:34, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
I moved Armstrong, Parlby and Philipson to the general section. I included pre-US figures on the east coast if the majority of their biography concerns their governance of the colonies. Hawaii was its own civilization and if it wasn't a US state it would probably be considered part of Polynesia/Oceania. I moved Hawaiian figures to US politicians if a significant part of their governance took place when the US controlled the area. I am still open to moving some figures if consensus is otherwise. Z1720 (talk) 15:42, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
Nothing stopping anyone considering Hawaii part of Polynesia/Oceania now! Anyway, from a casual reader POV, I would expect them to expect Hawaiian figures in the United States subsection. Anachronism has its place in navigation, and history was what it was, and now is what it is. CMD (talk) 15:46, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Splitting "Historical figures: other"

I have spun out European figures from "Historical figures: other", which was about half of the listings in that category. I invite editors to take a look and fix any errors I have made. Thanks, Z1720 (talk) 20:26, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Oh, thank you! I wanted to bring up the historical figures other category - I feel like the vast majority of entries are inproperly placed there. I scanned through and there were lots of political activists and officials that I feel are better placed somewhere else. Additionally, I think there's some which could be spun off into their own category - "Criminals and assassins" def. seems like it could be its own category of historical person, for instance. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 22:08, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
If you want to shift historical figures within that page (ie, not to another GA list) I encourage you to be bold, it's not the most curated structure. (Same for anything in Music.) CMD (talk) 03:57, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
@Generalissima: Steve Irwin was someone who I think should be moved, though I do not know which section to put him in (his talk page has him listed in Sports and Rec, but I think he was mostly known for being a conservationist and entertainer). As for new history sections: I agree with CMD. I think criminals is a good idea as it makes the section smaller. I also agree with music, but that might be a discussion for a new section below. Z1720 (talk) 16:03, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Historical figures: bureaucrats and administrators split?

After looking at the articles left over in Historical figures: other, another split might be bureaucrats and administrators. This could be defined as government officials who were never elected to their position (and are therefore not politicians). Thoughts? Z1720 (talk) 22:00, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

I think that'd be a good idea. One final category of "sort-of-politicians-but-not" could be activists, which I've seen a lot of in that category. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 22:34, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
@Generalissima: After going through the "other" category (again) I think an "activist, revolutionary, anarchist and suffragette" category would be appropriate. Z1720 (talk) 02:57, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
Bit of a mouthful - I think "Activists and revolutionaries" encompasses all four Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 04:31, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
@Generalissima: Works for me. Z1720 (talk) 15:15, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
I have created the "bureaucrats and administrators" category per this discussion. My next step is to go through the "other" category and move biographies to more appropriate categories. Z1720 (talk) 02:57, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

New editor incorrectly starting GANRs

Velthorian has opened three GAN reviews in the past 24 hours, and passed and failed one each without any actual review. Can those articles be put back in the queue (especially bcs the upcoming GAN backlog drive encourages the review of older GANs more), and someone help them understand the instructions on how to review properly. I have asked them before on one of the review page and Remsense has also msged them on their talk page. DoctorWhoFan91 (talk) 13:38, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Given discussion has already been opened, I have reset Talk:UNICEF club/GA1. Of course, if Velthorian reopens that GAN it can be taken out of the queue again. Talk:Darren Moore/GA1 has already been reset. Talk:Chennai Super Kings/GA4 has not started, so let's see, it can be G7ed. CMD (talk) 14:17, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
@DoctorWhoFan91 @Chipmunkdavis, Thank you for bringing this up! My nomination for UNICEF has been active since March 2024, and has been in the "oldest unreviewed good article nominations" box for a number of weeks now. Is there any way that this article could not go through the whole queue again? I understand if that's not possible, its just really unfortunate because of how long the nom had waited. Cheers! Johnson524 14:48, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
It has been reinserted in its old position in the "queue" (in effect, it never left the queue) SSSB (talk) 14:57, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
@SSSB Thank You! 🙂 Johnson524 15:06, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Nonsensical review

I believe @Infoadder95:'s recent review of Swim School to be nonsensical. Despite the review claiming otherwise, every single claim in the article is backed up. The review's Lack of Neutrality section accuses the article of containing several quotes that it simply doesn't have. Could someone else have a look?--Launchballer 22:38, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

seems like a pretty clearly Chat-GPT generated review. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 22:48, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
I think we can add Talk:Tudor City/GA1 to that list as well, as it seems to reference a bunch of things that aren't actually in the article. For example:
  • Add more inline citations to the "Notable residents" and "Cultural significance" sections, as some claims lack direct sourcing. - Tudor City doesn't have sections with either of these names, nor is any of the content lacking direct sourcing.
  • - **Cultural Impact:** While the "Cultural significance" section touches on Tudor City's appearances in media, it could delve deeper into how it has influenced perceptions of urban living in New York City. - As mentioned above, this article doesn't have a "Cultural significance" section. It does, however, have a "Critical reception" section, which does include some commentary about that exact topic.
  • However, certain phrases, such as "masterpiece of urban planning," could be perceived as promotional. - That phrase does not appear in the article.
As such, can someone take a look at this as well? I suspect this may have been an LLM-generated review. – Epicgenius (talk) 23:07, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
I would support banning from the entire GA process editors who use LLMs to generate their reviews. I agree that the claims of unsourced claims in the Swim School review are directly contradicted by a brief look at the article and its history, and the wording of the Tudor City review looks canned and generic. At the least, some explanation here by Infoadder95 would be warranted. Further scrutiny of Infoadder95's other edits beyond GA may also be a good idea. This diff, for instance, looks like others I have seen involving the use of an LLM to copyedit paragraphs, in some cases making the wording more promotional. I note that Infoadder95 has a current GA nomination, for Pakistani 75 Rupee Commemoration Notes. —David Eppstein (talk) 00:01, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
I am sorry if the article does seem like an LLM, but due to me not being to able to code in Wiki-text, and me not being able to use the visual editor in talk pages or when making reviews so I have to take the help of AI to turn my review into wikitext so it can be used in the article talk page. So some of the passages may seem like "Generic" and "AI generated", due to AI despite being given clear instructions to not alter the content.
If the majority opinion is against my review, I might be able to revise it, this is my first time reviewing nominees so I might make mistakes. If you have issues with specific portions of my review we can discuss it, or even ask for the consensus of other editors as well ask for a second review.
And to reply to the last part of your part of our message, I don't use LLMs for copyediting purposes or editing articles, if you suspect me of such, I am unable to do anything but wait patently. Infoadder95 (talk) 00:08, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
I agree with David. You have no business reviewing GAs if your ability is so lacking that you must rely on a text generator to do the work for you, especially when you're not even bothering to make sure that it hasn't hallucinated something. ♠PMC(talk) 00:13, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Now that the use of LLM for the reviews has been admitted, we should at least cancel both reviews and restore the two articles to the queue with their original nomination dates. —David Eppstein (talk) 00:16, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for not suggesting exiling me in the barren land of banned accounts Infoadder95 (talk) 00:19, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
I thought I could take part in January Backlog drive but this experience has taught me otherwise, thank you for your patience fellow Wikipedians. Infoadder95 (talk) 00:21, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
@Infoadder95, despite these flawed reviews, I wanted to thank you for your honesty. Although editors shouldn't be using large language models for good article reviews (or really, for any kind of content review), hopefully this can be a learning experience so the same mistake isn't repeated in the future. Epicgenius (talk) 03:43, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Thanks Infoadder95 (talk) 12:45, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for your suggestion, I think refraining from reviews till I get a bit seasoned is the best option for me now, I might as well spend some time time learning wiki-text.
If you suspect that I lack the capability to review articles and write quality reviews, you are mistaken but if you think that I lack the ability to use wiki-text and edit the source, then you are absolutely right. Infoadder95 (talk) 00:18, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Infoadder95, please nominate both reviews above for G7 speedy deletion, to aid cleanup of the errors. Thanks. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 00:51, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Ok Infoadder95 (talk) 00:55, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
I have deleted them both. You tagged them G11 (the wrong tag), which could have caused a problem if someone else got to them first and didn't understand why they were tagged, but fortunately that didn't happen. —David Eppstein (talk) 01:22, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

@Infoadder95: you just "reviewed" Talk:Alvin and the Chipmunks (film)/GA1 in the same manner? May I ask why when you said less than 24 hours ago that you "I think refraining from reviews till I get a bit seasoned is the best option for me now"? DoctorWhoFan91 (talk) 17:38, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

I did not use LLMs this time, I copied the wiki-text from my sandbox and pasted it into the sub talk page. And what is your criticism of my review now, that it does not meet your standards or that it was done by me. Is it wrong according to Good article criteria or you just hate me. Please highlight what did you meant by "same manner".
And how am I supposed to get seasoned without reviewing, if the people on the talk page don't object and nominator/s don't object what is the problem I may ask. And do you think I am rubber stamper or someone just afraid to fail a nominee after my last encounter, If so you should read the good article criteria and also don't forget to read the instructions and come and tell me If I violated something and also read this, and tell me if there is something from here present in my review. If the nominators/s have a problem or two I am obliged to listen and reopen the review.
And lastly, what is your purpose to stalk me? Infoadder95 (talk) 18:00, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Nobody is stalking you, but when someone publicly says "I'm not going to do " and then immediately goes back to doing the thing, it's not a great look. ♠PMC(talk) 18:02, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
@Premeditated Chaos Great, so what should I do, should I never do a review again in my life? I have a question; what is wrong with my review on Alvin and the Chipmunks, please I need your opinion so I can improve reviews next in line if I get any Infoadder95 (talk) 18:09, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
You have really got to stop putting words in peoples' mouths. No one has said you can never do another review ever in your life. You yourself said you would be refraining until you were "seasoned", yet you immediately did another review! There is a lot of space between "review again immediately" and "never review again", and waiting even a few weeks would have put you in a position of much less judgement. ♠PMC(talk) 18:19, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Yes, Infoadder95, all editors are supposed to asssume good faith - which you are not, by asking me why "I hate you" and "am stalking you", which seems to be casting WP:Aspersions. And you also said you would not review before learning, and try to understand what the issues with your reviews were. DoctorWhoFan91 (talk) 18:30, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
I have been issued a warning on my talk page for using LLMs on Talk:Alvin and the Chipmunks (film)/GA1 which I did not, yes I did use them on the 2 reviews before but I completely wrote this one myself, what seems to be the issue. Infoadder95 (talk) 18:35, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
I have replied to that below.
As for why you have warned of LLM usage- even in the case you didn't (which seems weird, as some of the links are missing, which seems unlikely to be done by a human hand), you have copied the format of your last two reviews, which is why they seem LLM generated, even if they might or might not be. DoctorWhoFan91 (talk) 18:38, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Ok I quit reviewing, this is probably not a task for me. Infoadder95 (talk) 18:37, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
I'll tell you how the review does not meet the criteria in some time if you want, but I would like to address the other points. "or you just hate me."- I do not, I just brought it up bcs it's wrong according to the criteria- you list issues in the review which very much mean that the article does not meet the criteria yet, or would be if some, if not all, of them were not incorrect. You get seasoned by reading the criteria and instructions properly and seeing other's people reviews.
I'm not stalking you, I was just checking what reviews have been passed/failed today till now as there has many incorrect reviews the past few weeks. DoctorWhoFan91 (talk) 18:09, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
@DoctorWhoFan91 Ok please tell me what is wrong with my review, me listing issues does not mean that the article does not qualify, instead they are the areas of improvement. Let me ask you, if you deem that one citation from one section of the whole article is unreliable or does not support the claim it is next to, will you fail the whole well written article or just bring it up so it can be addressed. Or another example; if the lead section is good but it can be a bit shorter, will you just fail the whole article.
And please don't forget to tell me that what is wrong with my review. Infoadder95 (talk) 18:16, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Minor-ish issues: you do not need to explain the GA criteria, just have to say they pass or fail bcs of this or that reason. And you should not highlight your reviews with a background colour, it's distracting.
Major issues- you have passed it despite you saying there are issues. (added after your reply) yes, bring it up, let it be fixed, do not just pass the article, as it very clearly states in the instructions, and what you would know if you had checked other reviews.
major issue 2: travolta is mentioned in ref 2 for the first sentence. The garfield cite is Variety- which is reliable, (and which you have also misplaced from the review, as its blank there). I might be able to find more, but the review is written badly, and it's hard to check what is and what isn't a problem. DoctorWhoFan91 (talk) 18:26, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for highlighting, I think I should not probably not review again, and I think it is for the better of Misplaced Pages and it's community. Infoadder95 (talk) 18:39, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
You may return, if you read and understand the instructions and have checked how a reviews are supposed to work. Though probably not for a few weeks or maybe months. Misplaced Pages will always be grateful to all editors who can do whatever they are doing correctly. DoctorWhoFan91 (talk) 18:43, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
@Infoadder95 There is no need to make this personal or be self-depricating. When you edit on a public space like Misplaced Pages, people are going to point out your mistakes. Responding to critisism is a lifelong skill that takes awhile to learn. The best thing you can do is acknowledge your mistakes, clean up your mistakes, educate yourself, do better in the future, and move on. Maybe you're not quite at a place in your Misplaced Pages editing where you can contribute to qaulity articles. And that's okay. But know your limits. IntentionallyDense 20:59, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Thanks Infoadder95 (talk) 14:38, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

I forgot this earlier, but could someone reset the review to it's original state with the original date, to ensure it gets a proper review. DoctorWhoFan91 (talk) 20:57, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Done, although it's a weird one given it was a pass. If the problems raised are correct and it was a fail, I would not have put it back in the queue, so hopefully they will be addressed. CMD (talk) 01:36, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

A streamlining of the GAN review process?

I was looking at some old nominations today that were under review, to check if any could be eligible for the January backlog drive (there are two, and I have pinged the reviewers there)- and I saw many reviews that were abandoned: there had not been a single comments in these reviews for months in many cases. This, plus the above two topics of new reviewers incorrectly starting reviews (and many similar cases in this talk page's archive) was making me wonder if we could make some changes to the process. Some of the changes could include- reviews without comments for a long time could also be seen in the report sub-page (or somewhere more prominent), a change in the template to show on the talk page when a review was started (just like it shows when a nom occurred), some co-ordinators to give at least a cursory glance to reviews: bad reviews might still slip through, but they would very much reduce in quantity. We can't just rely on the nom and reviewer, as even 3rd parties might like to help make it reach GA by nom-ing or reviewing it, and the whole process to ask so on the talk page and wait (which in many cases also sometimes lead nowhere) turns many off. I know some of the changes would be hard to implement, especially bcs of the needed eyes and hands, but I think at least some changes could be made. DoctorWhoFan91 (talk) 07:59, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

There seem to be two issues here. I'm not quite yet sure how to tackle "substandard reviews", but here are my thoughts on abananded reviews.
  • I certainly agree that we need a better way to track apparently abananded reviews. Currently, Misplaced Pages:Good article nominations shows where the reviewer is inactive for a certain number of days. (I don't know anything about bots but) I suspect it would be fairly easy to change this to number of days without an edit on review page, which will make it easier to track editors who have abandened reviews but are still active (which is a much bigger problem; and no point having both). (@Mike Christie: who operates the bot which updates this page)
  • Would it be possible to add a section for review's which haven't be edited for a certain number of days onto the Good article nominations report page, again so we can track potentionally abananded reviews. (@Wugapodes: who operates the bot which updates this page) Yes, we already have a section for reviews lasting over seven days. But some reviews will legitamtly last over seven days. And this section is also overpopulated with reviews that were temporily abandened. (i.e. the review is now actively ongoing). This makes it difficult to see the wood from the trees.:*I think we should be more aggresive with following up on reviews. I think that if a review has not been touched for (picking these time frames out of thin air) 14 days we provide a message on the review page, tagging the reviewer, with a message where we chase up the review and if they have not reaffirmed their commitment within 7 days the review will be considered abananded and reset inline with the recommendations at WP:GAN/I#N4a. If they reaffirm their commitment and don't follow through we will also just reset the nomination. If we hardcode that into the instructions it will also (hopefully) rectify part of the problem and enbolden nominaters who feel their review has stalled.
SSSB (talk) 14:32, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
True, and I was thinking also a separate page to list the GANRs with these issues- like inactive noms or reviewers are listed on WP:GAN, but it needs to be searched, which while each, could be made more straightforward. DoctorWhoFan91 (talk) 20:09, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Drive by review

Curtosy ping @CapeVerdeWave and 12george1: I stumbled upon Talk:1873 Atlantic hurricane season/GA1 while looking at older nominations for the January 2025 GAN backlog drive and found this review. There is no evidence that a review took place here and the review was all done within one edit. While I haven't done a thourough read through of the article in question so it may be fine but the review itself does not seem up to standards. IntentionallyDense 16:49, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

@IntentionallyDense: So you think I should provide more detail to justify the GA? In what areas, if so? I thought the summary seemed sufficient. CapeVerdeWave (talk) 16:54, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
@CapeVerdeWave Per Misplaced Pages:Good article nominations/Instructions Read the whole article. Understand its sources. Based on the Good article criteria, determine whether the article should be quick failed. An in-depth review must be provided in all other cases. This must include a spot-check of a sample of the sources in the article to verify that each source supports the text in the article that it covers, and that no copyrighted material has been added to the article from the source.
The part that is missing in your review is the in depth part. Sometimes there is articles where nothing or very little has to be changed. In this case it is more helpful to say something along the lines of "This article passes criteria 1 because xyz, I know this because I checked xyz" (modify as needed ofc). This is especially important when it comes to the sources. For example I would usually write something along the lines of "this article uses reliable sources without plagerising content, I checked sources 2, 4, 8, 19, and 20 and found no issues".
However it is very rare for an article to have absolutely no issues. For example the article in question has some overlinking which while not technically in the GA criteria, can reduce readibility and make it look overly technical. For example, countries are linked which is generally not needed. IntentionallyDense 17:04, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Even an article with no issues needs a spotcheck. CMD (talk) 01:37, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

Discussion at the Village Pump

There's a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Village pump (idea lab)#Dealing with drive-by reviews of GA related to good article nominations. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 22:19, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

New reviewer required

Hello, could I kindly request a new reviewer for the article Halimah Yacob? The previous reviewer has been inactive for some time and was unable to complete the GA review. Many thanks in advance. Pangalau (talk) 05:10, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Unfortunately it looks like the reviewer had a bit more of the article to go. I have reset the nomination. If the reviewer returns they are welcome to reopen the old GAN. CMD (talk) 05:21, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Inactive GAN review

Hi! I nominated the page 2024 Men's T20 World Cup for GA on 25 August and User:Vkwiki100 started reviewing it on 1 September 2024. Then, in two days he has gone off-wiki and hasn't returned yet; it's been almost 4 months since his last edit. Can an admin reset the review page, so it could be included in the upcoming backlog drive. (I also posted about this here in October).

Courtesy ping: @IntentionallyDense. Vestrian24Bio (TALK) 13:17, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

I have applied the instructions laid out at Misplaced Pages:GAN/I#N4a to the nomination. SSSB (talk) 13:46, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
It has been not quite a month since their last edit overall, but combined with the more than 3 months since the last edit to the GAN I have reset the nomination. CMD (talk) 13:47, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
Haha, looks like I was beaten to the punch. SSSB (talk) 13:48, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
Thanks. Vestrian24Bio (TALK) 13:57, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Inactive reviews

I was checking inactive reviews due to the backlog drive coming up, and I saw the following:

  • Talk:Sleeping Beauty (1959 film)/GA3: I think the reviewer said they are fine with a second reviewer, but haven't marked it as such. Plus the nom has been inactive for 24 days.
    Relisted.
  • Talk:Jonna Adlerteg/GA1: The reviewer has been inactive for more than a month, but it does look almost finished, so maybe it should be marked as needing a second opinion?
    Luckily this review seems substantially complete, unlike a couple of others from the same reviewer, and the reviewer seemed broadly positive on it. If there are no objections, this one might take a light lookover and pass.
  • Talk:IMac (Apple silicon)/GA1: Have had no review despite being open for more than 3 months
    Relisted.
  • Talk:Andhra Pradesh/GA3: Also have had no review even after being open for three months
    Reviewer has not edited since the ping three days ago, giving this one a bit more time.
  • Talk:Amos Yee/GA1: The reviewer barely started and have been inactive for more than a month
    Relisted.
  • Talk:Mating of yeast/GA2: Had no edits for a month, then had a week of reviewing, and then again has no edits for a month
    A bit more of a confusing one, probably should be relisted, but I've dropped a note on the reviewer talkpage.
  • Talk:June/GA2: The reviewer had filled out a review template, but has said nothing, or failed it (as they marked in the template), maybe they are inexperienced
    Opened just this month, dropped a note on the user talkpage.
  • Talk:Yang Youlin/GA1: New reviewer did not review, just marked it GA on the talk page, and has not been editing for two weeks (after having not edited for 3.5 months)
    This one is a bit weird, usually I'd wait longer given the review just opened, but, given the talkpage action, the lack of activity in general, and the upcoming drive, not opposed to relisting sooner.

Can something be done about these- either marked as needing another reviewer, or reset, as seems best? DoctorWhoFan91 (talk) 07:11, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for checking all this. I've relisted three obvious cases in line with my understanding of our precedents, other comments above. CMD (talk) 08:01, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
Thanks. There are even more GANRs similar to the above, but they were all started around less than a month ago, so I only mentioned the most egregious ones. Might do a similar check around the middle of next month. DoctorWhoFan91 (talk) 08:08, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Inactive nominations

Hi! It's great that the bot now mentions when there has been a while since a nominator has made an edit. I usually give a talk message to the user before picking up a review, but I don't think there is a requirement for this as of yet.

To streamline our nomination process and take out articles which won't ever have their reviews addressed, could we maybe get the bot to ping users after, say 30 days, of their last edit and confirm they still want the review. If they don't return to editing by 45 days (or whatever), then the nomination is pulled.

The resources of reviews are low enough to not have to address reviews of inactive nominators. An example of this happening manually can be found here: . Lee Vilenski 15:19, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Lee, are you thinking of the same approach as suggested here? Or just for nominations where the review has not yet been started? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 15:25, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
Not yet started. Whilst I appreciate it's hard when doing a review for a non-active nominator, I'd like to avoid it before we get that far. Lee Vilenski 15:30, 28 December 2024 (UTC)