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| == Checkuser, please == | |||
| == Get well soon == | |||
| Sorry to see the note on the top of this page. At least you were allowed back last year and got in 278 edits. Hope to see you back sometime in 2023. ] (]) 18:30, 29 January 2023 (UTC) | |||
| {{ping|Callanecc}} (or any other uninvolved checkuser reading this), could you please run a checkuser on IP address 69.16.147.185? Because of the person's edit my original block of 1 week was extended to 2 weeks for "block evasion," but that edit was not made by me or by anyone that I know. Chillum, who was last to review my block said that he is open to another admin reviewing it. | |||
| :I am back. Worked on (still working on, actually) a few things with my doctors and I'm feeling quite a lot better. Knock wood, it sticks. I created a new article today. Would you like to look it over? It's about Amy Kelly, author of ''Eleanor of Aquitaine and the Four Kings''. It needs a little more work, but I think it's a good start. I'll probably take a break for a bit... Don't want to overdo it. ] (]) ] (]) 22:41, 31 January 2023 (UTC) | |||
| ::Super. If you can improve on that you're a better writer than me. Based on "evidences of seriousness of purpose and promise of success" I recommend you for the honor roll of WikiProject historical biography writers. Prose of this quality has not appeared on Misplaced Pages in many a long day. | |||
| ::I took a look at the lead of ] and it cracked me up a bit. After fifteen years of marriage and two daughters her husband agreed to an annulment (heaven forbid royalty ever divorce) on the grounds of ] within the fourth degree (but why was the marriage allowed in the first place, and it took 15 years to figure that out?) So then she just remarries other royalty committing the same crime in the third degree! I can see how that's fodder for a best-selling book (and maybe a TV miniseries too). Sure, take it easy, no need to work harder than you feel up to. – ] (]) 02:48, 1 February 2023 (UTC) | |||
| :::What kicked this off was hubby and I were watching ''The Lion in Winter'' (one of our favorite "Christmas" movies). Then we got to talking about Eleanor. He likes to read historical nonfiction, so I said, You should read ''Eleanor of Aquitaine and the Four Kings''. And I bought him a used copy. So he's sitting there looking at it, and then his phone, and he said, There's no Misplaced Pages article on Amy Kelly. And I said, What? And there you go! | |||
| :::Thanks for the positive feedback. I truly appreciate it. BTW, what is the "Review" process? It doesn't leave anything in the reviewer's history. I've always wondered about that. ] (]) | |||
| ::::There are multiple review processes. One is ]. Another is ] (see ]). Another is ] (see ] – you too may apply to join the ]). Another is ] (behold that detailed flowchart!). You can see in my that I marked revision 1136740705 of page ] patrolled – that's just a matter of checking a box. I confess I didn't use that flowchart as part of my review process. Your writing is so many levels above the average I see that I didn't think it was necessary. The new page reviewers are a more elite group (currently , plus administrators). And then there's ], which uses a "Curation Toolbar". I have trouble keeping track of it all. That's why there's a disambiguation page! ''']'''. – ] (]) 21:45, 1 February 2023 (UTC) | |||
| :::::I see. I was aware of peer reviews, but not all the others. Thanks for explaining - and for your kind words. ] (]) | |||
| == Pending Proposal for Kessler Foundation == | |||
| :Checkuser is not run "defensively", and they generally would not report information linking an IP to a named user in any case I don't think this request is going to get you anywhere. In any case, I am pretty sure the admins have said they were doing a ] behavioral block. In those circumstances even a negative checkuser wouldn't mean anything. I am not accusing you of anything, I don't think the IP is you, but you could have been at a friends computer, or at work, or taken your laptop to starbucks, somewhere else that would not have the same CU but could still plausibly be you. CU for the most part is nothing but an IP check, plus a few bits of info from the browser (user agent, patch # etc). Its trivial to end up with a different CU, it only trips up prolific socks, because very few people have access to dozens/hundreds of machines/ips. But for a "one-time-sock" its easy to avoid. ] (]) 19:47, 12 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| Hi. I see you’re a member of the WikiProject Medicine/Society and medicine task force. I’ve made a number of proposals to update the article about ], a charity that supports people with disabilities. Several have been reviewed but a few remain. The request is posted here ]. I have a conflict of interest, and do the edits myself. Would you possibly have time to look at these? I appreciate your time. ] (]) 20:14, 31 January 2023 (UTC) | |||
| ::I've seen references to "duck" many times, but never bothered to read it before. I just did. I can see how this essay might apply to my original block, especially since I have since admitted that I did edit logged out (IP 72-something) for privacy. But I did not do the IP 69 edit. Further, IP 69 made one edit, so there's nothing to it that can be compared to any "habitual characteristics" on my part. The edit that IP made, the info he/she deleted, was related to the info I asked to have revdeled, but I didn't delete it before my block, and I wouldn't have and didn't delete it after, either. It would have been pointless, and dangerous... as it ended up being for me even though I didn't do it. Duck also says: | |||
| :Sorry, I don't remember joining a medicine task force. Good luck with your proposals. ] (]) | |||
| :::''The duck test does not apply in non-obvious cases. Unless there is such clear and convincing evidence, editors must assume good faith from others.'' | |||
| == ArbCom 2023 Elections voter message == | |||
| ::If it will help an admin, I can get a copy of my receipt from the restaurant I was at on November 30 (blocked Dec. 1) when IP 69 made the edit he/she made. | |||
| <div class="ivmbox " style="margin-bottom: 1em; border: 1px solid #AAA; background-color: ivory; padding: 0.5em; display: flex; align-items: center; "> | |||
| ::For Pete's sake, I'm not asking to have the original block removed, I'm just asking to have the extension removed. IT WAS NOT ME. ] (]) 20:15, 12 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| <div class="ivmbox-image" style="padding-left:1px; padding-right:0.5em; flex: 1 0 40px; max-width: 100px">]</div> | |||
| <div class="ivmbox-text"> | |||
| Hello! Voting in the ''']''' is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on {{#time:l, j F Y|{{Arbitration Committee candidate/data|2023|end}}-1 day}}. All ''']''' are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once. | |||
| The ] is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the ]. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose ], ], editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The ] describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. | |||
| :As Gaijin42 said, CU will likely not tell us anything since we already have the geolocation of both IPs (perhaps your only defence is that they are different states (but that doesn't prove a lot). All I'd be able to tell with CU is whether you've edited on the 69.* IP with your account which is immaterial to the issue. <b>]</b> (] • ] • ]) 02:02, 13 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| If you wish to participate in the 2023 election, please review ] and submit your choices on the ''']'''. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{tlx|NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. <small>] (]) 00:27, 28 November 2023 (UTC)</small> | |||
| ::OK. Let us consider a hypothetical case. How does one find out about an unexpected edit, read through it to understand what it is, from where it was made, find out some other user's location and correlate it with the new edit, calculate the distance between the two locations, work out all the intricacies / simplicities of Occam's razor, and implement a block with an edit summary containing a link to a relevant page, all withing four minutes ? How does it look if the person who did all this within four minutes is running for an election in which he/she could not hope to get the blocked user's vote ? ( The block prevents the user from voting ) Does it all look appropriate, very OK ?] (]) 03:27, 13 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| </div> | |||
| {{ping|Salvio giuliano}} {{ping|Chillum}} The extension of this block seems silly to me. I disagree that this is an Occam's razor situation—we had many IPs editing the arbitration case, and it seems equally likely that this could be another person or a joe job. Lightbreather admitted the edits from the first IP were theirs; I don't think it's unreasonable to extend good faith far enough to say that this edit was not. ] <small>]</small> 04:25, 13 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
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| == Reminder to vote now to select members of the first U4C == | |||
| :I have given this my time. I have discussed this with the blocking admin. It is clear to both of us that once discovered by a checkuser you resorted to using a proxy thinking that would fool us. We know about proxies. | |||
| <section begin="announcement-content" /> | |||
| :I am not changing my mind and I doubt the blocking admin will either. Please stop pinging me about this matter. I invite the scrutiny of the community as always. I welcome another admin to review this, but I am done here. | |||
| :''] '' | |||
| Dear Wikimedian, | |||
| :These blocks are not entirely separate issues as you insist in the collapse templates above. The fact that you had '''just''' engaged in sock puppetry is a relevant fact when considering the credibility of your claims. I think the any further review should take into account the sections you collapsed as to allow focus on the current issue. ] 18:09, 13 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| You are receiving this message because you previously participated in the UCoC process. | |||
| ::Chillum, please note that I didn't ping you here, but that admin {{ping|GorillaWarfare}} did, who seems to be open to reviewing this. Therefore, I am thinking about making one more official "unblock" request, and hoping that others will allow GorillaWarfare to do the review. ] (]) 18:21, 13 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| This is a reminder that the voting period for the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) ends on May 9, 2024. Read the information on the ] to learn more about voting and voter eligibility. | |||
| :::At first look I thought it was Orange/Yellow pinging me again. I see now it was GW. My mistake, apologies to all involved. I did not think it was you. GW being an admin is welcome to review this and find differently, or any admin for that matter. ] 18:24, 13 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| The Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) is a global group dedicated to providing an equitable and consistent implementation of the UCoC. Community members were invited to submit their applications for the U4C. For more information and the responsibilities of the U4C, please ]. | |||
| I have reviewed this, and I do find differently, but I don't particularly want to overturn ban extension without agreement. ] <small>]</small> 18:52, 13 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| Please share this message with members of your community so they can participate as well. | |||
| :Okay well you are not going to get my agreement, at best you get my lack of objection. I discussed this with the blocking admin and we agree. I think it is a bit naive to believe the story given, however I am happy to have my sanity checked. That is why we have so many admins. Consider talking to the blocking admin yourself about this if you have not already done so. ] 19:10, 13 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| On behalf of the UCoC project team,<section end="announcement-content" /> | |||
| ::That is precisely what I am attempting to do. ] <small>]</small> 20:45, 13 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| ] 23:09, 2 May 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::@Chillum. We are basically an anonymous community and the right to anonymity is a vital part of our project. I suppose everyone here is familiar with the Essjay controversy. IIRC Essjay had pretended to be someone other than what he actually was, Jimbo was told about that, but Jimbo was OK with it because he rationalized that Essjay was fibbing about his identity in order to protect his anonymity. LB has also fibbed about the initial IP edits being hers in order to protect her anonymity. If it was OK for Essjay to fib in order to protect his anonymity, why is the same not OK for LB ? Why is her fib in order to protect her anonymity being held against her ?] (]) 03:50, 14 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
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| == ArbCom 2024 Elections voter message == | |||
| == Joe job discussion == | |||
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| Regarding the ] that Chillum started on Salvio giuliano's talk page, since I cannot respond there, I am doing so here. ] (]) 18:32, 13 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| <div class="ivmbox-image noresize" style="padding-left:1px; padding-right:0.5em;">]</div> | |||
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| Hello! Voting in the ''']''' is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on {{#time:l, j F Y|{{Arbitration Committee candidate/data|2024|end}}-1 day}}. All ''']''' are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once. | |||
| The ] is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the ]. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose ], ], editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The ] describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. | |||
| #Chillum: ''I am wondering what you make of the claims by Lightbreather that he/she was framed for the actions leading up to the block extension. A Joe job sort of thing. I don't think it is plausible. The behavior was so idiosyncratic and not the clumsy impersonation that normally comes along with a Joe job. Just wanted to see if you saw any merit in the claim.'' | |||
| #Salvio: ''No, I agree with you and I don't see any merit in the claim. There is no gentle way of saying this, but, put simply, I don't believe her when she says she didn't do it; she has already lied before, when she denied operating the first IP (the one for which she was originally blocked), so I don't attach much credence to her protestations.'' | |||
| #Chillum: ''I am glad we are on the same page then. Thank you.'' | |||
| If you wish to participate in the 2024 election, please review ] and submit your choices on the ''']'''. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{tlx|NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. <small>] (]) 00:13, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</small> | |||
| '''First''' question, before I even respond to the details, is how am I supposed to have a chance for a positive review outcome if the original blocker and the first reviewer (who ostensibly agreed to a second review) privately agree that there is no merit to the claim? ] (]) 18:32, 13 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| </div> | |||
| '''Second''' question goes to Chillum's first set of comments. The single edit by IP address 69.16.147.185 was the deletion of info that was related to me. There were others involved in that discussion, ], who felt that the information should not have been presented publicly there (on the GGTF ArbCom PD talk page). Others who spoke up and possibly others who did not speak up. Could any of those editors have made that deletion, in a misguided attempt to help me get rid of the information that I had asked to have revdeled? ] (]) 18:46, 13 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| </div> | |||
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| '''Third''' question goes to same set of comments. There were others in that discussion who had no problem with my username and IP address being connected publicly (against policy) and possibly others who felt the same way and did not speak up. (In other words, they were hoping that I would get blocked.) Could any of those editors have made that deletion, in a malicious attempt to get my block extended? ] (]) 18:46, 13 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| '''Fourth''' question, rhetorical, involves the alleged idiosyncrasy of IP 69's behavior. Which behavior? I have already had to contribute to the outing of my personal information (real-life IP address) in order to present my argument for why I edited not-logged-in. My argument was not accepted as legitimate and for that I was blocked. And that block has expired. | |||
| But the block ''extension'' was based on ''one'' edit. ''There was no pattern of editing to compare to idiosyncratic behavior'' (as there was between my 36 edits logged out to my other edits as Lightbreather). The information that IP 69 had deleted had never been deleted by IP 72 or Lightbreather. I had asked to have it ''revdeled'' because I know enough to know that simple deletion would not have protected my personal information. There was no good reason for me to get sneaky and get myself into trouble to delete something when I know that deleting it would accomplish nothing positive for me. It wouldn't truly hide the personal information that I wanted to hide, and it would very likely cause me to be blocked again or for a longer period of time. ] (]) 18:59, 13 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| '''Fifth''' question is for Salvio and involves a hypothetical. | |||
| There is a highly controversial discussion going on that you would like to participate in anonymously. You read WP:SOCK and decide that ] must apply, because you see that at least eight other editors have chosen to participate anonymously, too. Near the end of the discussion, someone speculates that some of the IPs (plural) in the discussion might be "case parties logged out." A clerk replies, ''If you've got evidence of that could you please email it to me or the clerks' list.'' This makes you a little nervous, so you go to the main case page and re-read the ] list. Your name is not there. | |||
| Six days later, the same person who had speculated before about IPs in the discussion being logged-out case parties ''PUBLICLY links your username to your IP address.'' Within a couple of hours, the same person starts an SPI and publicly asks for a checkuser, too. You still believe that your reason for participating in the highly controversial discussion, in which you were not an involved party, was legitimate. How do you defend yourself - without outing yourself? Do you lie outright - say "I am not Salvio" - or do you dance around the problem as best you can after reading ], and say, ''I have not abused multiple accounts or IPs and have not breached the policy on meat-puppetry.'' ] (]) 19:31, 13 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| === Re contrary claims === | |||
| Now DeCausa joins in with his "pre-arranged alibi makes her difficult to believe" comment? Anyone who is familiar with my editing knows that I have on numerous occasions shared my RL plans when in the middle of an important discussion... as have many other editors, for that matter. | |||
| And Hell in a Bucket - who publicly outed my real-life IP address, without repercussion - chimes in with an "the evasion was her" allegation. He must believe that repeating an allegation makes it a fact. Well, it doesn't. Only ''one'' person knows for sure who the IP 69 editor was: the IP 69 editor; and only ''two'' know who was ''not'': the IP 69 editor and I. I was not the IP 69 editor. ] (]) 00:37, 14 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| == Casting aspersions == | |||
| Since ], I will respond here... since it's the only place I can respond for the time being. | |||
| In just the last 24 hours: | |||
| *Admin {{admin|Salvio giuliano}} has called me a liar or fibber multiple times. | |||
| *Admin {{admin|Chillum}} has called me a liar multiple times. | |||
| *Editor {{user|Hell in a Bucket}} has called me a liar. | |||
| ] says, ''An editor must not accuse another of misbehavior without evidence, especially when the accusations are repeated or severe. If accusations must be made, they should be raised, with evidence, on the user-talk page of the editor they concern or in the appropriate forums.'' Not one of these allegations was made with a diff or in an appropriate forum. That's called "casting aspersions." | |||
| As for the claim by Chillum that, ''Logging out to edit a controversial area is evasion of scrutiny, not protection of privacy,'' - ] in the sock puppetry policy says just the opposite: | |||
| :'''''Privacy''': A person editing an article which is highly controversial within his/her family, social or professional circle, and whose Misplaced Pages identity is known within that circle, or traceable to their real-world identity, may wish to use an alternative account to avoid real-world consequences from their editing or other Misplaced Pages actions in that area.'' | |||
| The real-world consequence of editing as Lightbreather in controversial areas is that I have been harassed on- and off-wiki. That is part of why I quit editing (along with, of course, not being called a "cunt," but being told that editors can act in ways deserving of being called a "cunt," and similar comments and actions by other editors). | |||
| --] (]) 19:45, 14 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| == Involved parties at the GGTF ArbCom == | |||
| {{collapse top|title=Discussion collapsed while I think.}} | |||
| {{ping|Hell in a Bucket}}, you keep claiming that I was an involved party in the GGTF ArbCom case. This allegation was part of your reasoning behind why my editing anonymously was inappropriate, leading to my block. Here is your latest iteration of the claim: | |||
| :''Lightbreather didn't think she was an involved party, how in the blue hell was she not an involved party, she was involved in the case request, the first person filing evidence and then all of a sudden she retires and then comes back as an anon Ip.'' | |||
| Q: Was I listed among the ] in the GGTF ArbCom? A: No. | |||
| Q: Was my name even mentioned on the ]? A: Yes, ''once'', by Carolmooredc. That's it. (Carol also thought 11 others should be added to the list; the only one added was Neotarf.) | |||
| Q: Was my name mentioned on the main case ''talk'' page? A: No. | |||
| Q: Did I provide evidence in the case, just before I quit WP? A: Yes. Evidence was also provided by at least a dozen other editors who were not listed as involved parties in the case. | |||
| Q: Did I retire "all of a sudden"? A: ] - even on the oddly named WikiProject Editor Retention. | |||
| Q: Did I come back as an anonymous IP? A: Yes, and with the exception of one observation on the workshop talk page, I made no comments at the GGTF ArbCom case until a month after I quit. I didn't participate to vandalize or to disrupt, but to participate in good faith - anonymously. | |||
| I was not an involved party in the GGTF ArbCom, but I was very interested in it, just like dozens of other editors, including yourself. | |||
| --] (]) 20:21, 14 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| *If you are going to continue running your mouth about me then I am not going to stay off this page. I'm going to reply en-mass and you probably won't like a lot of it. We have called you a liar because you lied. Simple as that, yet you edited as this IP for your privacy ] From 10/26 until I called you out. Apparently privacy only matters when you are pretending to be another person and not presenting evidence o=under your account but I digress. Remember and yet you want to do the same thing again? Face it you egged that situation on until you lost, you wanted to say as the IP I'm not involved, you can checkuser me, when I basically tell you ok put your money where your mouth is by using things you provided on wiki and all of a sudden it's outing (a statement no other editor other then ORY has endorsed btw). You wanted to present evidence as two people, it had jack squat to do with privacy, that was your beard and you expected the people here who work with socks on a daily basis wouldn't see it. You were part of the declined civility case (remember your conflict with ]) and you started plastering your off wiki twitter site because of ]. Can you explain how you weren't an involved party? You gave a massive wall of evidence, you participated in the discussion quite a bit, enough so we had behavioral evidence to tie you to the IP in addition to the location information. You edited as the IP and as yourself to make it look like another person that just couldn't handle the big bad eric corbett, you sacrificed your integrity and reputation because you thought you could get away with it and that more people wouldn't dismiss what you were saying because of your past antics and ''involvement'' in the same dispute. The funny thing is that even as you wrongly thought Echastain was a puppet of Sue Rangell misusing the clean start you were doing the exact same thing with the IP. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it, your welcome to revert it but I'm going to link it into the conversation on Salvio's page so even if you do people can see the baloney. You want to say that there was other parties editing logged out too, maybe there was but they at least had the good sense to limit those posts to limit suspicion. ] (]) 20:48, 14 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| ::''You were part of the declined civility case.'' You also mentioned this at the GGTF ArbCom. Why? And why both times without a link? I just went and dug around and found before it was declined. It's three months old, and your name was the first given in the original complaint. Yes, my name was in the list of involved parties, but the case was declined. Why are you bringing it up? I didn't initiate it. Scalhotrod isn't named as an involved party in it (so I don't know why you're dragging his name into it). Let's leave the old, declined case out of this and focus on this case. ] (]) 21:28, 14 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| ::''You started plastering your off wiki twitter site because of User:Eric Corbett.'' That's not really a lie, but it's not really true, either. My complaint is with the incivility on Misplaced Pages, of which EC is/was only a part. Not only the incivility, but the rancorous opposition that is rained down on those who complain about it. ] (]) 22:20, 14 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| ::''You gave a massive wall of evidence.'' My evidence was about 550 words - more than some posted but less than others posted, and no clerk threw it out as a "massive wall." ] (]) 21:59, 14 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| ::''You edited as the IP and as yourself to make it look like another person that just couldn't handle the big bad eric corbett.'' This is simply untrue. ] (]) 22:00, 14 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| *Lightbreather do you really want me to go and dig up the evidence for you since July/August of this year so you can claim I"m not casting aspersions. Once I do can I get assurances you will not seek retribution? I actually think out of Neotarf and Carolmooredc, you were the more reasonable. I can do this but really what will it prove? I know you don't want to admit it but you did a dishonest thing. Tough grits, I think we all do that from time to time though or have at some point. The fact that I answer the taunt of baiting says a lot about me, but can't we all agree to move on? Even if I dig up all the diffs does it change the fact you were blocked for two weeks? No. Does it change the fact that you thought it nec to use an ip. No. Was it inappropriate, you think no, the community thinks yes. Do you think that you can do what's best for the encylopedia and help build it and work with people? You have the opportunity to turn everything negative on it's head and be what your username implies and be a breather of light to the world. Find a different way to spread the message, it's a good message really it is, but the method you are using to try and change things is a problem. Don't dirty the message with underhanded methods, people will respect you and the message so much more with up front and unwavering integrity. If you do that even your opponents will have to admit even in disagreement that you handled yourself with dignity and deserve accolade. off my soapbox. I really hope you will take me up on the offer to just move on and not force me to dig up the diffs. I certainly will if you insist but I think you are smarter then that and your pride is hurting at the moment, help recover by moving on and improving. YOu don't have to disbelief or recant just send the message differently and you will see dividends. ] (]) 01:03, 15 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| ::My hope was that someone would unblock me for that unjust "block evasion" extension. That and maybe apologize for calling me a liar. That didn't happen. Now I am going to sleep on what to do next. ] (]) 02:45, 15 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| {{collapse bottom}} | |||
| == Proposed I-ban between you and Hell in a Bucket == | |||
| Hi Lightbreather. Keeping in view the recent interactions between you and HiaB, I have proposed an I-ban between you two directly below this . Although I am not too familiar with the history between you two, what I have seen in the past month or so seems more than enough to think that an I-ban between you two has become necessary. It should bring some peace of mind for both, and also benefit the project because the project could hope to get some nice, more productive output from two eds. I certainly do not want to pressure anyone into accepting anything, and would surely like some others to offer their opinions / criticisms / suggestions on this proposal, and hope both of you would give serious consideration to this proposal. Best.] (]) 11:11, 15 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :I'm all for stopping the madness. Honestly my head is hammered today so I probably will not be on too much today either way to discuss it further until later tonight. ] (]) 13:45, 15 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :I am still drinking my coffee, and pondering what I want to do next. I'll consider this option, but won't say for sure until later today or maybe tomorrow. Thanks. ] (]) 15:13, 15 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| ::I think for the immediate future (3 - 6 months) this would be a wise choice. We can revisit it then to determine if the issues surrounding the dispute between you two has settled down enough where you two can talk without trying to spit in each others faces. Because, right now, the only thing you two communicate is insults and accusations.--v/r - ]] 21:55, 15 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :::I am still thinking about it. Also, although I agree that I have made allegations against Hell in a Bucket, I don't recall insulting him - unless the allegations themselves are considered insults, but I believe I backed them up with evidence. ] (]) 22:02, 15 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Some of the accusations I find insulting but from a manners POV, Lightbreather is usually very polite, that's part of what frustrates me so much dealing with her, she has the potential that Neotarf or CMDC didn't to actually accomplish things IMO. ] (]) 23:21, 15 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :OK {{ping|Salvio giuliano|TParis|Hell in a Bucket|OrangesRyellow}} I've had a day to think on it, and I ''would'' like an IBAN between Hell in a Bucket and me. But instead of 3 to 6 months, as TParis has suggested, let's say indefinitely until we ''both'' agree to lift it? ] (]) 03:33, 16 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| ::My concern is why a Iban is nec when the discourse is civil enough it's the delivery that's in the question. ] (]) 03:41, 16 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :::I am not so much concerned with "civility" here, although that may be a plausible issue. What I am thinking about is words like "productive", "useful", "beneficial". I do not foresee anything productive / useful / beneficial coming out of interactions, and although I do not like saying this, I only foresee the opposite of those things being produced from interactions, and taking away a lot of yours, and this projects time, energy and peace-of-mind resources in the bargain. An indef I-ban looks like a good idea to me.] (]) 04:11, 16 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| ::::This is ridiculous. LB socked {{rpa}} and HIAB caught her. That she didn't like being caught is of no consequence. If HIAB doesn't want to enter into this IBAN, then your only recourse is to ask at ANI and gather community input.]<span style="font-style:italic"><sup>]</sup><sub>]</sub></span> 05:52, 16 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :::::{{ping|Two kinds of pork}} you are not welcome on this page if you're going to talk about/to me like that. I socked, yes, though not for the reason that I was "busted." Also, I've done my time, and then some. But most importantly, I. DID NOT. LIE. An accusation of lying is a severe accusation, and without evidence it is ]. If you will please strike that part of your comment, I will strike this part. Otherwise, stay off of my page and stop repeating this lie. ] (]) 13:48, 16 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :::::Oh. You want to continue argueing who did / did-not do what wrong / right, instead of finding the way forward ? I suggest an indef I-ban between LB and you too is necessary.] (]) 06:51, 16 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| OrangesRyellow, our ] allows bans such as you are suggesting only when there is a community consensus for it. Proposing it privately is of no effect. {{tq|Community sanctions may be discussed on the ] (preferred) or on ].}} | |||
| You can discuss such things on one of the noticeboards but there is little point in suggesting it here. Even if the users agree it will still not be binding if broken. If the users are willing to avoid each other then no ban is needed. ] 08:18, 16 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| === Voluntary, indefinite IBAN between HIAB and LB === | |||
| {{ping|Hell in a Bucket}} Will you agree to a voluntary, indefinite IBAN between us? If you will accept my word, I will accept yours. If either of us wants to lift the ban, we can go to the other's talk page and ask civilly. ] (]) 13:39, 16 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| {{ping|GorillaWarfare}} would you mind being a counselor or witness to this? ] (]) 13:53, 16 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :Here's my problem with an interaction ban, everyone who disagrees with you will eventually be on an Iban. Seriously and I can only comment on what I've seen but it seems like anyone who disagrees with you is the problem. The level of personal responsibility is very low, or at least it appears to me to be that way. ] (]) 23:02, 16 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| ::You seemed agreeable to it yesterday. But setting that aside, a question: Do you have any Ibans right now? ] (]) 23:21, 16 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :::I was undecided yesterday, I was suffering a self inflicted hangover and that's why I stated I would discuss it further when I felt better.. The answer to your question, no I am not under any sanctions, Ibans or otherwise. ] (]) 23:40, 16 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Sorry you weren't feeling well. As for Ibans, I don't have any either. I don't think we should be worrying about how many you or I might have in the future. What I want to know is, will you agree to a voluntary, indefinite Iban, that we can talk about in the future when we're ready to agree on lifting it? ] (]) 23:45, 16 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :::::Help me understand what this will accomplish? I've given this some thought and what happened, yes I think that your claims about outing, harrassment etc need to stop. I can't make you not feel that way but your interpretations are contrary as to what is considered those things in the community. My actions here have been to hold you responsible for editing logged out, I have held you accountable for outing other editors. I say I but I mean I was involved with those, obviously the actual judgement came down from other editors. An interaction ban would not stop a report on socking, it wouldn't stop the behaviors period. I've done research of various things I've told you since the inception of the actions leading up to the GGTF case from August on ] and again my wall of post from Sunday some of the same things are present. The Iban perturbs me because it seems to me is that the only function it would serve would be a mistaken shield from someone that has followed encyclopedia policy to arrive at this point as I did in the lead up to the block. That's why I've been resistant to an Iban or the things OrangesrYellow or Tparis said because I remember the attempts made to actually talk this over with you. The common theme is that everyone that disagrees is wrong and everyone that agrees is helpful. At what point does the people here think that you aren't ] to argue your case and doing it because you can't work the other people here? I personally think you have the ability to do so but you refuse to do it. I don't expect you to agree with what I wrote but these are my thoughts about it overall. ] (]) 00:11, 17 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :::::: At this, simply adding a brief FOF to the <s>Gamergate</s> GenderGap case stating that a voluntary IBAN has been agreed, along with a voluntary (but enforcement) IBAN as a remedy, seems the route forward of least drama as it can be achieved with no fingerpointing. Do either LB or HIAC object to this? ] <sup>]</sup> 05:40, 17 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::::Considering neither LB nor HIAB are parties to that case, just how on earth are you going to make a FOF? Oh wait, you'll just drum something up behind closed doors again? You're doing a hecka job there Brownie.]<span style="font-style:italic"><sup>]</sup><sub>]</sub></span> 07:31, 17 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::::Sorry, I misspoke; I had the other ] in mind. We could add a FOF and remedy to that via a request at ], or an IBAN could be handled at WP:AE under the FFTF discretionary sanctions. The point is appropriate low drama procedures - which could be used, if desired - are already in place, ] <sup>]</sup> 07:54, 17 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
| Happy to help, though not sure how I would. You two can decide to just avoid each other (without any enforcement), but Chillum is right that a formal IBAN should be discussed in a wider venue. ] <small>]</small> 04:56, 17 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
Latest revision as of 00:13, 19 November 2024
Get well soon
Sorry to see the note on the top of this page. At least you were allowed back last year and got in 278 edits. Hope to see you back sometime in 2023. wbm1058 (talk) 18:30, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
- I am back. Worked on (still working on, actually) a few things with my doctors and I'm feeling quite a lot better. Knock wood, it sticks. I created a new article today. Would you like to look it over? It's about Amy Kelly, author of Eleanor of Aquitaine and the Four Kings. It needs a little more work, but I think it's a good start. I'll probably take a break for a bit... Don't want to overdo it. Lightbreather (talk) Lightbreather (talk) 22:41, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- Super. If you can improve on that you're a better writer than me. Based on "evidences of seriousness of purpose and promise of success" I recommend you for the honor roll of WikiProject historical biography writers. Prose of this quality has not appeared on Misplaced Pages in many a long day.
- I took a look at the lead of Eleanor of Aquitaine and it cracked me up a bit. After fifteen years of marriage and two daughters her husband agreed to an annulment (heaven forbid royalty ever divorce) on the grounds of consanguinity within the fourth degree (but why was the marriage allowed in the first place, and it took 15 years to figure that out?) So then she just remarries other royalty committing the same crime in the third degree! I can see how that's fodder for a best-selling book (and maybe a TV miniseries too). Sure, take it easy, no need to work harder than you feel up to. – wbm1058 (talk) 02:48, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
- What kicked this off was hubby and I were watching The Lion in Winter (one of our favorite "Christmas" movies). Then we got to talking about Eleanor. He likes to read historical nonfiction, so I said, You should read Eleanor of Aquitaine and the Four Kings. And I bought him a used copy. So he's sitting there looking at it, and then his phone, and he said, There's no Misplaced Pages article on Amy Kelly. And I said, What? And there you go!
- Thanks for the positive feedback. I truly appreciate it. BTW, what is the "Review" process? It doesn't leave anything in the reviewer's history. I've always wondered about that. Lightbreather (talk)
- There are multiple review processes. One is Misplaced Pages:Peer review. Another is Recent changes (see Misplaced Pages:Recent changes patrol). Another is Misplaced Pages:Pending changes (see Misplaced Pages:Reviewing pending changes – you too may apply to join the 7,813 reviewers). Another is Misplaced Pages:New pages patrol (behold that detailed flowchart!). You can see in my patrol log that I marked revision 1136740705 of page Amy Kelly patrolled – that's just a matter of checking a box. I confess I didn't use that flowchart as part of my review process. Your writing is so many levels above the average I see that I didn't think it was necessary. The new page reviewers are a more elite group (currently 726 members, plus administrators). And then there's Misplaced Pages:Page Curation, which uses a "Curation Toolbar". I have trouble keeping track of it all. That's why there's a disambiguation page! Misplaced Pages:Reviewing. – wbm1058 (talk) 21:45, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
- I see. I was aware of peer reviews, but not all the others. Thanks for explaining - and for your kind words. Lightbreather (talk)
- There are multiple review processes. One is Misplaced Pages:Peer review. Another is Recent changes (see Misplaced Pages:Recent changes patrol). Another is Misplaced Pages:Pending changes (see Misplaced Pages:Reviewing pending changes – you too may apply to join the 7,813 reviewers). Another is Misplaced Pages:New pages patrol (behold that detailed flowchart!). You can see in my patrol log that I marked revision 1136740705 of page Amy Kelly patrolled – that's just a matter of checking a box. I confess I didn't use that flowchart as part of my review process. Your writing is so many levels above the average I see that I didn't think it was necessary. The new page reviewers are a more elite group (currently 726 members, plus administrators). And then there's Misplaced Pages:Page Curation, which uses a "Curation Toolbar". I have trouble keeping track of it all. That's why there's a disambiguation page! Misplaced Pages:Reviewing. – wbm1058 (talk) 21:45, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
Pending Proposal for Kessler Foundation
Hi. I see you’re a member of the WikiProject Medicine/Society and medicine task force. I’ve made a number of proposals to update the article about Kessler Foundation, a charity that supports people with disabilities. Several have been reviewed but a few remain. The request is posted here Talk:Kessler_Foundation#Kessler Foundation Edit Requests – October 2022. I have a conflict of interest, and do the edits myself. Would you possibly have time to look at these? I appreciate your time. Dogmomma529 (talk) 20:14, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- Sorry, I don't remember joining a medicine task force. Good luck with your proposals. Lightbreather (talk)
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