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== Get well soon ==


Sorry to see the note on the top of this page. At least you were allowed back last year and got in 278 edits. Hope to see you back sometime in 2023. ] (]) 18:30, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
==Kaffeeklatsch discussions==
===Kaffeeklatsch request to close===


:I am back. Worked on (still working on, actually) a few things with my doctors and I'm feeling quite a lot better. Knock wood, it sticks. I created a new article today. Would you like to look it over? It's about Amy Kelly, author of ''Eleanor of Aquitaine and the Four Kings''. It needs a little more work, but I think it's a good start. I'll probably take a break for a bit... Don't want to overdo it. ] (]) ] (]) 22:41, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
Nice idea, but not at Misplaced Pages. Things are going reasonably well at the moment, so why erect a target to inflame the situation? Please close it down before the inevitable ] because those pages cannot be reconciled with standard procedures. ] (]) 23:17, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
::Super. If you can improve on that you're a better writer than me. Based on "evidences of seriousness of purpose and promise of success" I recommend you for the honor roll of WikiProject historical biography writers. Prose of this quality has not appeared on Misplaced Pages in many a long day.
::I took a look at the lead of ] and it cracked me up a bit. After fifteen years of marriage and two daughters her husband agreed to an annulment (heaven forbid royalty ever divorce) on the grounds of ] within the fourth degree (but why was the marriage allowed in the first place, and it took 15 years to figure that out?) So then she just remarries other royalty committing the same crime in the third degree! I can see how that's fodder for a best-selling book (and maybe a TV miniseries too). Sure, take it easy, no need to work harder than you feel up to. – ] (]) 02:48, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
:::What kicked this off was hubby and I were watching ''The Lion in Winter'' (one of our favorite "Christmas" movies). Then we got to talking about Eleanor. He likes to read historical nonfiction, so I said, You should read ''Eleanor of Aquitaine and the Four Kings''. And I bought him a used copy. So he's sitting there looking at it, and then his phone, and he said, There's no Misplaced Pages article on Amy Kelly. And I said, What? And there you go!
:::Thanks for the positive feedback. I truly appreciate it. BTW, what is the "Review" process? It doesn't leave anything in the reviewer's history. I've always wondered about that. ] (])
::::There are multiple review processes. One is ]. Another is ] (see ]). Another is ] (see ] – you too may apply to join the ]). Another is ] (behold that detailed flowchart!). You can see in my that I marked revision 1136740705 of page ] patrolled – that's just a matter of checking a box. I confess I didn't use that flowchart as part of my review process. Your writing is so many levels above the average I see that I didn't think it was necessary. The new page reviewers are a more elite group (currently , plus administrators). And then there's ], which uses a "Curation Toolbar". I have trouble keeping track of it all. That's why there's a disambiguation page! ''']'''. – ] (]) 21:45, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
:::::I see. I was aware of peer reviews, but not all the others. Thanks for explaining - and for your kind words. ] (])


== Pending Proposal for Kessler Foundation ==
:Respectfully, I disagree. ] (]) 23:22, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
:I think the Kaffeklatsch is a good idea, too. <span style="text-shadow:#A2E1FC 2px -2px 9px;">&mdash;&nbsp;]&nbsp;<sup>]</sup></span> 01:23, 19 January 2015 (UTC)


Hi. I see you’re a member of the WikiProject Medicine/Society and medicine task force. I’ve made a number of proposals to update the article about ], a charity that supports people with disabilities. Several have been reviewed but a few remain. The request is posted here ]. I have a conflict of interest, and do the edits myself. Would you possibly have time to look at these? I appreciate your time. ] (]) 20:14, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
::I have no problem with the idea of the Kaffeeklatsch. --] (]) 07:06, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
:Sorry, I don't remember joining a medicine task force. Good luck with your proposals. ] (])


== ArbCom 2023 Elections voter message ==
===Kaffeeklatsch pledge===


<div class="ivmbox " style="margin-bottom: 1em; border: 1px solid #AAA; background-color: ivory; padding: 0.5em; display: flex; align-items: center; ">
Hi Lightbreather, I left this comment on the Kaffeeklatsch page, but I haven't signed the pledge yet, so I've moved it here. Sorry about that.
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Hello! Voting in the ''']''' is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on {{#time:l, j F Y|{{Arbitration Committee candidate/data|2023|end}}-1 day}}. All ''']''' are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.


The ] is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the ]. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose ], ], editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The ] describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
I noticed that the asks subscribers to confirm "that you are a woman". Perhaps it's best to leave it there, and people will identify with that statement or not. I wouldn't include the issue of user preferences being set to she, sexual orientation, or whether someone has joined a certain category. I can't see that those matter for this. Just my opinion. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 03:43, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
:{{u|SlimVirgin}}, I hope that my "Response" below explains my thinking better. For a group in my user space, the pledge seems reasonable. If the proposed WikiProject Women group gets going, with WMF resources and guidance, maybe a better way to do this will be devised. ] (]) 02:21, 20 January 2015 (UTC)


If you wish to participate in the 2023 election, please review ] and submit your choices on the ''']'''. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{tlx|NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. <small>] (]) 00:27, 28 November 2023 (UTC)</small>
:Personally I was concerned with the pledge, especially parts 2 and 3, but had trouble finding the words for it. Here are my thoughts now that I have had some time to gather them.
:* Line 1: ''I am a woman (cisgender or trans-woman, of any sexual orientation)'' is a big improvement from its previous form, but isn't totally inclusive of intersex persons or female-sexed persons with non-binary gender (agender, intergender, genderfluid, etc.).
:* Line 2 requires that participants out themselves as females by being in the Category:Female Wikipedians. Why is this a requirement? Is not participation in the Kaffeeklatsch outing enough?
::* I understand that the project wants to encourage women to come out of invisibility and make their presence more, well, visible, but revealing any degree of personal information, including age, sex, gender, location, name, etc, and the method of revealing it, should always remain the choice of the person themselves, and not be requirement to join any group, especially when that group is the only women-only on-wiki space available.
:* Line 3 requires that participants set their Internationisation user preference to "She edits wiki pages." Again, why? To alter some number to make female presence more visible in statistics? Again, this should be a suggestion only. I fail to understand why this is relevant to participation in the Kaffeeklatsch. As said, there probably are more women than just me who have left it at "prefer not to say" for reasons other than fear of sexism or harassment. For myself, it's because of my native tongue and culture. --] (]) 13:01, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
::{{u|Pitke}}, see my "Response" below. But I have a question for you: Are your native tongue and culture genderless? If so, cool! ] (]) 02:26, 20 January 2015 (UTC)


</div>
:I would sign the pledge, as I am a woman editor who greatly appreciates this effort, but I do not want to identify myself as a woman via preferences or categories. ] (]) 10:05, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
</div>
::Sorry, Ongepotchket. Maybe if the WikiProject Women proposal gets off the ground, with WMF resources and guidance, a better way to do this will be devised. ] (]) 02:31, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
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== Reminder to vote now to select members of the first U4C ==
:No and also Hell no. I'm one of the "they" sorts and that won't change. It's a safety issue. ]<sup>]</sup> 00:31, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
::Montanabw, do you believe an editor who sets their user preference to "She edits," or who joins the "Female Wikipedians" category, is less safe than other editors? If so, in what way do you mean? For instance, on Misplaced Pages, or in real life, or what? ] (]) 01:41, 20 January 2015 (UTC)


<section begin="announcement-content" />
I removed myself from the group. I joined with concerns about the pledge - concerns others share - but your response makes it clear you do not agree. I can not therefore remain. <span style="font-family: Lucida Calligraphy">]<span style="color: #22aaaa">of</span>]</span> 17:42, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
:''] ''
:As you wish, LadyofShalott, and no hard feelings on my part. While hosting this test group in my space, these requirements feel safer to me. As I said, perhaps if WikiProject Women gets off the ground a better way to do this will be agreed upon. Perhaps someone should start a test group in their space with different requirements? ] (]) 17:55, 22 January 2015 (UTC)


Dear Wikimedian,
====Response====
Why ask those who would like to join the Kaffeeklatsch to change their user preference to "She edits wiki pages," ''and'' add their username to the category "Female Wikipedians"?


You are receiving this message because you previously participated in the UCoC process.
The objective is to have a women-only space on Misplaced Pages as a place first and foremost for women to feel safe - a refuge. I have based the idea on the Anita Borg Institute's Systers list. Although the groups would be similar in their goals - a safe place for women to talk about tech (Systers) and Misplaced Pages (Kaffeeklatsch) - their framework is different. The Systers group has been active for over 20 years. The Kaffeeklatsch is a test group while the WikiProject Women proposal is under consideration at the IdeaLab.


This is a reminder that the voting period for the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) ends on May 9, 2024. Read the information on the ] to learn more about voting and voter eligibility.
When a person registers an account on Misplaced Pages, they have to give a username, which does not have to be their real name, and... that's it. You don't have to give your real name. You don't have to give an email address. You don't have to state your gender. However, as we all know, gender does end up being divulged, intentionally or otherwise. The editing environment is hostile, which feels unsafe to a lot of women, and little is done about it, nor is little likely to be done about it in the near future.


The Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) is a global group dedicated to providing an equitable and consistent implementation of the UCoC. Community members were invited to submit their applications for the U4C. For more information and the responsibilities of the U4C, please ].
When a person subscribes to the Systers list, they must be approved by a moderator. They give their email address and their name, and they have to 1) tell their involvement in tech (1-2 sentences suffice), 2) say that they are a woman, and 3) say that they have read and agree to the list's rules (a lengthy set). Then the person's request is evaluated by a moderator, and the email address is confirmed. This process goes a long way toward assuring the list members that they're safe. This process has been successful in making and keeping Systers a valued place for women in tech for a long time.


Please share this message with members of your community so they can participate as well.
I don't think those who want to join this group should have to share their real names and email addresses. However, I do think that asking them to make a small sacrifice for the peace of mind of other group members is reasonable. If it is more important to a woman Wikipedian to keep her user preference set to something other than "She edits wiki pages," or not to join the category "Female Wikipedians," than it is to be a part of the group, there is still the Teahouse to reach out to for support. But for women who are members of the group, there is some comfort in knowing that other members of the group are "out" as women on all of Misplaced Pages, and not just for access to the group.


On behalf of the UCoC project team,<section end="announcement-content" />
At any rate, as I said, this is only a test group for now, and it is to be hoped that the IdeaLab proposal may get off the ground, and then perhaps there will be better ways of managing membership. ] (]) 18:30, 19 January 2015 (UTC)


] 23:09, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
:I understand the model you're trying to emulate but I don't see it working here on Misplaced Pages for a couple of reasons.
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:First, the Anita Borg Systers group is completely private: non-members are unable to read the list and message are not publicly archived. A completely private area isn't possible on Misplaced Pages and so you cannot apply the same membership standards. You're asking people to give up their privacy and to expose themselves for not much in the way of a return. If you want to offer privacy you'll have to take this off-wiki.


<div class="ivmbox " style="margin-bottom: 1em; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; background-color: #fdf2d5; padding: 0.5em; display: flex; align-items: center; ">
:Second, you say that women need a safe space but you are excluding some of the women who need it - ones who might not want to specify both their gender and the internationalization. You say above that they can go to the Teahouse but you say elsewhere that the Teahouse isn't well-run because men run it. The overall message is that if women aren't willing to be out and proud as women, they can't join your group. If your goal is to provide a place free from disruption, you'd be better off with some kind of moderation that allows disruptive people to be banned from the page rather than focusing on requiring that prospective members specify both gender and internationalization (which doesn't actually prevent disruption because people can lie - and some women contributors can be at least as disruptive as men contributors).
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Hello! Voting in the ''']''' is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on {{#time:l, j F Y|{{Arbitration Committee candidate/data|2024|end}}-1 day}}. All ''']''' are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.


The ] is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the ]. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose ], ], editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The ] describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
:As an aside, you're basically proposing that a social space be set up on Misplaced Pages. Some will see as unnecessary because people are supposed to be here to build an encyclopaedia and discussions on wiki are supposed to be focused on ways to improve articles. If you want this proposal to succeed then you'll need to address that aspect. ] (]) 23:38, 21 January 2015 (UTC)


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::As I wrote above, ''to participate in the Systers group one must give their name and their email address''. That would be asking too much here in this public group. However, asking a woman to give something here isn't unreasonable when the something they're asked to give is a token compared to what the ''private'' Systers group asks. In other words, both Systers and this Kaffeeklatsch ask women to say, "I am a woman," but the Systers group (smartly) asks additionally for two substantive pieces of information, to give some peace of mind to the group. Since it ''would'' be too much to ask women here to share their names and email addresses, asking for these other assurances is reasonable.


</div>
::As for taking the group off-wiki, I am in the middle of collaborating with the Systers-keeper to set up a Misplaced Pages Systers space, which will be a private space to ''complement'' to this Klatsch (and, it is to be hoped, a future WikiProject Women space).
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::As for the Teahouse, yes, I don't think it feels as safe for women as a women-only space would feel. (I was once told by a Teahouse host that I was being too sensitive. This is a common way to belittle women.)

::No, I am not proposing a social space, or at least not a mainly social space. I want it to be more focused on community, policies, and guidelines than on content, but content discussion will not be off limits. The space's goals are:
::*Create a space conducive to women's participation on Misplaced Pages (No trashing allowed);
::*Maintain the space for women to seek advice from women peers;
::*Maintain the space for women to discuss the challenges they share as women Wikipedians;
::*Increase the number of women editors on Misplaced Pages.
::However, it does not have special rights or privileges, and it cannot make rules (that apply outside the group), nor can it impose its preferences on articles, policies, or guidelines.

::I'd like to make two final points. 1. Some have ''scoffed'' at the idea that Misplaced Pages can feel unsafe to women - but turned around elsewhere and suggested that it ''is'' unsafe to set your preference to "She edits" or to add your username to the Female Wikipedians category. And 2. Some have suggested that to say that one feels unsafe here makes light of the fears of women who are or have been physically unsafe in the real world. However, many women who suffer real-world abuse suffer it hand-in-hand with electronic abuse. And psychological abuse effects how safe one feels in the real world.

:::Please read the "Vote stacking" section. You are clearly cherry picking your notifications to areas where you expect support. If you cannot see your bias then I suggest you leave notifying editors about the debate to other people. ] 16:55, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

::So a good question for someone to ask somewhere (please, ''please'' not here): ''Is it'' unsafe to do these things? ] (]) 01:06, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

==It's already covered==
It's already covered in the 2nd paragraph; by returning the new addition, it's now covered twice in the lede. Why revert? Regards, ] (]) 04:33, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
:Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. I have several real-life and wiki projects going at once. As for this, you're right - and I fixed it. ] (]) 01:37, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
::Thanks. I also expanded the content again ; it's an important counterpoint to claims that the term was only used by activists or the media before the industry ditched it. Feel free to tweak if need be. Regards, ] (]) 02:28, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

== AGF ==

I've noticed that you preface some of your edit summaries with "AGF". I know that's a reference to ], but I'm not sure what you mean by that. Are you saying that you are assuming good faith? Or are you asking the other editor to assume good faith? Or do you mean something else? <font face="cursive">— ]<small><sup> (])</sup></small></font> 01:30, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

:If it's the usage I think you're referring to (like "AGF, but...") I usually mean, "I'm assuming good faith here, but here is why this edit can't stay," or something along those lines. ] (]) 01:32, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

::In that case I suggest that you "assume assuming good faith". That is, since good faith is assumed, it's not necessary to say that you are assuming good faith. In fact, saying that you are assuming good faith might be misconstrued as an innuendo that you are questioning the good faith of the other editor's edits. Know what I mean? <font face="cursive">— ]<small><sup> (])</sup></small></font> 01:37, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

:::I have never used "AGF" in an edit summary to mean anything other than "AGF." ] (]) 01:39, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

::::Good. And I hope you will take my suggestion in the spirit in which it's intended. Since good faith is assumed, it can be more collegial not to point out that you are assuming good faith. It will be obvious enough when another editor's actions force you to stop assuming good faith. Anyway, it's not a huge deal either way. Thanks for your replies here. <font face="cursive">— ]<small><sup> (])</sup></small></font> 01:49, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

== Clinton speech to Tech ==
This one I did not dawdle on...
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Hillary-Clinton-Watermark-Speak-at-Silicon-Valley-Womens-Conference-293839411.html ... :) --] ] ☮ღ☺ 09:37, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

== WP:Co-op: Presentation at Wikimania 2015 ==

]
Hey {{BASEPAGENAME}}. I've put in a submission for a presentation at Wikimania 2015 called ''''. I'll be talking about the state of finding help spaces on en.wiki and how our new mentorship space, ], factors into that picture. Reviewing will begin soon and I'll need your help to be able to present our work. Please review our proposal and give us feedback. If you would be interested in seeing this presentation, whether you are attending or not, please '''add your name''' to (you do not need to attend Wikimania to express interest in presentations). ]] on behalf of ''']'''.

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== Sexually Provocative Images on user Talk Page Violating ] ==

There is an ANI discussion which may interest you. It concerns some old user pages that contain BDSM and spreading images that violate userpage guidelines. ] (]) 16:04, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

I saw the MFD you mentioned and tagged the F Machine article for speedy delete as well. ] (]) 18:48, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

:I don't know who you are or why you came here to tell me about this, but thank you. This kind of crap is a black-eye to the project, IMO, and I know women who would never want to edit here knowing that we host that kind of "content." It's ridiculous. I guess some people don't want to have to pay for their porn!

:As for the canvassing charges, I think some find that old chestnut a very handy tool to try to discredit or intimidate others. In cases like this though, it's ridiculous. Again, that kind of crap just doesn't belong here. No encyclopedic purpose whatsoever. ] (]) 18:55, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

::Many send emails out when they want help from buddies but then scream canvass. As soon as I put that up it was taken down by the admin writing this article ]. It may have been on his watchlist. It got a GA template on it. It is blatant advertising and who the hell buys something like that anyway. I am an just an IP. I will not tell anyone to let their kids use wiki. It is a very disturbing culture in many ways. ] (]) 19:06, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

== YOu weren't notified of an SPI ==

I did not start this one but I am letting you know another SPI is going on you. ] ] (]) 22:13, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

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Get well soon

Sorry to see the note on the top of this page. At least you were allowed back last year and got in 278 edits. Hope to see you back sometime in 2023. wbm1058 (talk) 18:30, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

I am back. Worked on (still working on, actually) a few things with my doctors and I'm feeling quite a lot better. Knock wood, it sticks. I created a new article today. Would you like to look it over? It's about Amy Kelly, author of Eleanor of Aquitaine and the Four Kings. It needs a little more work, but I think it's a good start. I'll probably take a break for a bit... Don't want to overdo it. Lightbreather (talk) Lightbreather (talk) 22:41, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
Super. If you can improve on that you're a better writer than me. Based on "evidences of seriousness of purpose and promise of success" I recommend you for the honor roll of WikiProject historical biography writers. Prose of this quality has not appeared on Misplaced Pages in many a long day.
I took a look at the lead of Eleanor of Aquitaine and it cracked me up a bit. After fifteen years of marriage and two daughters her husband agreed to an annulment (heaven forbid royalty ever divorce) on the grounds of consanguinity within the fourth degree (but why was the marriage allowed in the first place, and it took 15 years to figure that out?) So then she just remarries other royalty committing the same crime in the third degree! I can see how that's fodder for a best-selling book (and maybe a TV miniseries too). Sure, take it easy, no need to work harder than you feel up to. – wbm1058 (talk) 02:48, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
What kicked this off was hubby and I were watching The Lion in Winter (one of our favorite "Christmas" movies). Then we got to talking about Eleanor. He likes to read historical nonfiction, so I said, You should read Eleanor of Aquitaine and the Four Kings. And I bought him a used copy. So he's sitting there looking at it, and then his phone, and he said, There's no Misplaced Pages article on Amy Kelly. And I said, What? And there you go!
Thanks for the positive feedback. I truly appreciate it. BTW, what is the "Review" process? It doesn't leave anything in the reviewer's history. I've always wondered about that. Lightbreather (talk)
There are multiple review processes. One is Misplaced Pages:Peer review. Another is Recent changes (see Misplaced Pages:Recent changes patrol). Another is Misplaced Pages:Pending changes (see Misplaced Pages:Reviewing pending changes – you too may apply to join the 7,813 reviewers). Another is Misplaced Pages:New pages patrol (behold that detailed flowchart!). You can see in my patrol log that I marked revision 1136740705 of page Amy Kelly patrolled – that's just a matter of checking a box. I confess I didn't use that flowchart as part of my review process. Your writing is so many levels above the average I see that I didn't think it was necessary. The new page reviewers are a more elite group (currently 726 members, plus administrators). And then there's Misplaced Pages:Page Curation, which uses a "Curation Toolbar". I have trouble keeping track of it all. That's why there's a disambiguation page! Misplaced Pages:Reviewing. – wbm1058 (talk) 21:45, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
I see. I was aware of peer reviews, but not all the others. Thanks for explaining - and for your kind words. Lightbreather (talk)

Pending Proposal for Kessler Foundation

Hi. I see you’re a member of the WikiProject Medicine/Society and medicine task force. I’ve made a number of proposals to update the article about Kessler Foundation, a charity that supports people with disabilities. Several have been reviewed but a few remain. The request is posted here Talk:Kessler_Foundation#Kessler Foundation Edit Requests – October 2022. I have a conflict of interest, and do the edits myself. Would you possibly have time to look at these? I appreciate your time. Dogmomma529 (talk) 20:14, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't remember joining a medicine task force. Good luck with your proposals. Lightbreather (talk)

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