Misplaced Pages:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-07-23 User:Zeraeph: Difference between revisions

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	== Mediation Case: 2006-07-23 User:Zeraeph ==		== Mediation Case: 2006-07-23 User:Zeraeph ==

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	{{Misplaced Pages:Mediation_Cabal/Request_header}}
			Please observe ] and ] in disputes. If you submit complaints or insults your edits are likely to be removed by the mediator, any other ] of the mediation case by anybody but the mediator is likely to be reverted. If you are not satisfied with the mediation procedure please submit your complaints to ].
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	=== Request Information===		=== Request Information===
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	; ''What's going on?''		; ''What's going on?''
	: Zeraeph is posting allegations on AN/I, the Asperger syndrome talk page, and my talk page, but I haven't been able to understand his exact complaint. He has refused to discuss it directly with me, or to e-mail me, and he closed a mediation he requested before it even got started.		: Zeraeph is posting allegations on AN/I, the Asperger syndrome talk page, and my talk page, but I haven't been able to understand his exact complaint. He has refused to discuss it directly with me, or to e-mail me, and he <s>closed</s> rejected a mediation he requested before it even got started.
	; ''What would you like to change about that?		; ''What would you like to change about that?
	: I'd like to understand what has him so upset, and I'd like to get along.		: I'd like to understand what has him so upset, and I'd like to get along.
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	Mediation or dialogue with ] is out of the question. I cannot, and will not, participate in any form of dialogue with a person who is manipulative and is not truthful, for many reasons, not least of which is the sheer futility of attempting achieve resolution in the face of that kind of behavior.		Mediation or dialogue with ] is out of the question. I cannot, and will not, participate in any form of dialogue with a person who is manipulative and is not truthful, for many reasons, not least of which is the sheer futility of attempting achieve resolution in the face of that kind of behavior.
	When I thought mediation was an option I did not realise User:SandyGeorgia was capable of the degree of deceit she has shown since I requested it. Thus, my request is now withdrawn and I will refuse all others. See for details. --] 05:18, 23 July 2006 (UTC)		When I thought mediation was an option I did not realise User:SandyGeorgia was capable of the degree of deceit she has shown since I requested it. Thus, my request is now withdrawn and I will refuse all others. See for details. --] 05:18, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

			:I am closing this case myself, because I cannot participate due to the reasons given above. I don't see the sense in it being opened at all within 24 hours of me withdrawing a similar request made by myself , and I really do not want to mislead anybody by leaving it listed as either a "new" or "open" case, when, in truth, it will never be active. Apologies if for any reason I am not allowed to close this myself, I did try to check that and I can't find instructions anywhere, one way or the other.--] 20:53, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

	=== Mediator response ===		=== Mediator response ===
	<!-- MEDIATORS: Change the category below to ] when you take it so our bot can put it in the proper section.-->		<!-- MEDIATORS: Change the category below to ] when you take it so our bot can put it in the proper section.-->
			:Just to make this clear, Zeraeph didnt close the case. Coordinator ] did. ] 18:20, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
			::I'm sorry for using the wrong terminology. I struck and changed above. Thanks, ] 18:34, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
			:::Not a problem. Although the other user (]), has already refused mediation . ] 18:49, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
			::::Understood, but let's not close and give up so quickly this time. ] 18:56, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
			:::::While Zeraeph has expressed that he does not wish to pursue mediation in this case, that does not necessarily mean the case should be closed if Sandy would still like assistance. I am re-opening the case for a mediator to look at it. Thanks. ]<sup>]</sup> 04:42, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
			::::::I've attempted to get sides talking on my user talk page and a subpage I created for the dispute specifically, but mediation was refused by ]. ] <sub style="color:red;"><small>( ]</small></sub> <sub>]</sub> <sub style="color:blue;"><small>] )</small></sub> 22:27, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

			:::::: Quoted verbatim from :
			::::::''Mediation or dialogue with ] is out of the question. I cannot, and will not, participate in any form of dialogue with a person who is manipulative and is not truthful, for many reasons, not least of which is the sheer futility of attempting achieve resolution in the face of that kind of behavior.
			::::::''When I thought mediation was an option I did not realise User:SandyGeorgia was capable of the degree of deceit she has shown since I requested it. Thus, my request is now withdrawn and I will refuse all others''
			::::::--] 17:29, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

			::::::] <sub style="color:red;"><small>( ]</small></sub> <sub>]</sub> <sub style="color:blue;"><small>] )</small></sub> 22:36, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
			Should one disputant refuse mediation, that does not mean cabalists cannot work with the requester. (See ]). ]<sup>]</sup> 22:41, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

			::I seriously cannot imagine any reason why ] cannot have all the one woman mediation she could ever wish for. I cannot imagine any way that I could claim a right to object to that as long as people wished to mediate.

			::However, I think I do have the right to expect that:

			::*My refusal to participate be respected as final and something I have given serious thought to and have good reasons for.
			::*No statement about myself made, by any person, should be discussed as fact on any public access page without conclusive proof that it is fact.
			::*Any speculation about my feelings, motives or thoughts be presented respectfully as just that, the speculation and opinions of strangers.

			::I would also like to state that my rejection of mediation is no reflection on Medcab or any individual mediator I have yet encountered, I have been very much impressed by all. I can assure you that in almost any other instance, involving almost any other user, I would be grateful for the opportunity for mediation. --] 22:55, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

			Oh, it seems I have been quite misleading here. I was speaking soley from a general perspective on that cases should not be thrown away, like they are in Medcom, if one disputant refuses to get involved. This case, however, does appear to be a pure user conduct issue in which Sandy is asking for an explanation. However, Zeraeph has refused, so it does appear that there is little for us to do. My recommendation would be that you two simply try not to get into a future conflict with eachother and head your separate ways, though it seems that little will be able to be done in this case. So, it does appear that this case should probably be closed as it has come to the point where we cannot help. You could address the problems on ANI or ask another Administrator, or someone who appears to understand what's going on, but generally medcab is more for content disputes than user disputes. This case probably should be closed, then, but nonetheless as I stated earlier, the closing procedures should probably be left to cabalists so the case does not go under the radar. ]<sup>]</sup> 00:46, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

			::That's fine, when I closed it myself I had no idea whether I should or could, and could not find any guidance anywhere, so I just did what I wanted to do.

			::Let me assure you that ] has already been given a full explanation both here and here and here , which all seem clear enough to me, and from her responses she seems to have grasped the gist of what I was saying perfectly well, so it is hard to see why she insists that she does not understand.

			::I am perfectly happy to stay away from her if she would stay away from me, but last time I let it drop, this and this happened, followed, less than four hours later, by the ingenuous statement ''"I'd like to understand what has him so upset, and I'd like to get along."'' above. I find myself staggered that anyone would expect somebody they would make remarks like and about to ever feel like "getting along with" them. I find myself feeling that all she really wants is to find a way to force me to act out a positive attitude to her that I cannot feel and her behavior does not warrant. I also feel that the only kind of explanation she is seeking is one that suits her, instead of those she has already had, which are just honest. --] 02:36, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

	=== Compromise offers ===		=== Compromise offers ===
			<div style="text-align: center; margin: 0 10% 1em 10%; border: 1px solid #aaa;">
	{{Misplaced Pages:Mediation Cabal/Compromise}}
			This section is for listing and discussing compromise offers.
			</div>

	:		:
	=== Discussion ===		=== Discussion ===
	{{Misplaced Pages:Mediation_Cabal/Comments_Section}}		{{Misplaced Pages:Mediation_Cabal/Comments_Section}}
			:More than a week has elapsed since Zeraeph's first MedCab request, with no change in status: there seems to be little benefit in keeping the case open. ] 20:05, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
	:


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	<!-- MEDIATORS: Change this category to ] when you take the case, and to ] when you close it. -->		<!-- MEDIATORS: Change this category to ] when you take the case, and to ] when you close it. -->
	]		]

Latest revision as of 07:01, 4 December 2024

Mediation Case: 2006-07-23 User:Zeraeph

Please observe Misplaced Pages:Etiquette and Talk Page Etiquette in disputes. If you submit complaints or insults your edits are likely to be removed by the mediator, any other refactoring of the mediation case by anybody but the mediator is likely to be reverted. If you are not satisfied with the mediation procedure please submit your complaints to Misplaced Pages talk:Mediation Cabal.

Request Information

Request made by: Sandy 05:08, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Where is the issue taking place?: WP:ANI, User Talk:SandyGeorgia, Talk:Asperger syndrome, User talk:Torinir, User Talk:Zeraeph

Who's involved?: Zeraeph and myself

What's going on?: Zeraeph is posting allegations on AN/I, the Asperger syndrome talk page, and my talk page, but I haven't been able to understand his exact complaint. He has refused to discuss it directly with me, or to e-mail me, and he ~~closed~~ rejected a mediation he requested before it even got started.
What would you like to change about that?: I'd like to understand what has him so upset, and I'd like to get along.

Would you prefer we work discreetly? If so, how can we reach you?: I have notified Zeraeph of this mediation request: we can use the talk page associated with this mediation. Unfortunately, any previously involved mediators will need to recuse themselves (Torinir and Kylu who closed the earlier case a bit too quickly, and FrancisTyers who helped me out in a previous mediation :-).

This is inappropriate

Mediation or dialogue with User:SandyGeorgia is out of the question. I cannot, and will not, participate in any form of dialogue with a person who is manipulative and is not truthful, for many reasons, not least of which is the sheer futility of attempting achieve resolution in the face of that kind of behavior. When I thought mediation was an option I did not realise User:SandyGeorgia was capable of the degree of deceit she has shown since I requested it. Thus, my request is now withdrawn and I will refuse all others. See for details. --Zeraeph 05:18, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I am closing this case myself, because I cannot participate due to the reasons given above. I don't see the sense in it being opened at all within 24 hours of me withdrawing a similar request made by myself , and I really do not want to mislead anybody by leaving it listed as either a "new" or "open" case, when, in truth, it will never be active. Apologies if for any reason I am not allowed to close this myself, I did try to check that and I can't find instructions anywhere, one way or the other.--Zeraeph 20:53, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Mediator response

Just to make this clear, Zeraeph didnt close the case. Coordinator Kylu did. SynergeticMaggot 18:20, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry for using the wrong terminology. I struck and changed above. Thanks, Sandy 18:34, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Not a problem. Although the other user (Zeraeph), has already refused mediation here. SynergeticMaggot 18:49, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Understood, but let's not close and give up so quickly this time. Sandy 18:56, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

While Zeraeph has expressed that he does not wish to pursue mediation in this case, that does not necessarily mean the case should be closed if Sandy would still like assistance. I am re-opening the case for a mediator to look at it. Thanks. Cowman109 04:42, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I've attempted to get sides talking on my user talk page and a subpage I created for the dispute specifically, but mediation was refused by Zeraeph. Torinir _{( Ding my phone} _{My support calls} _{E-Support Options )} 22:27, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Quoted verbatim from my subpage:

When I thought mediation was an option I did not realise User:SandyGeorgia was capable of the degree of deceit she has shown since I requested it. Thus, my request is now withdrawn and I will refuse all others

--Zeraeph 17:29, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Torinir _{( Ding my phone} _{My support calls} _{E-Support Options )} 22:36, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Should one disputant refuse mediation, that does not mean cabalists cannot work with the requester. (See Misplaced Pages:Mediation_Cabal/Suggestions_for_mediators#What_to_remember). Cowman109 22:41, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I seriously cannot imagine any reason why User:SandyGeorgia cannot have all the one woman mediation she could ever wish for. I cannot imagine any way that I could claim a right to object to that as long as people wished to mediate.

However, I think I do have the right to expect that:

My refusal to participate be respected as final and something I have given serious thought to and have good reasons for.
No statement about myself made, by any person, should be discussed as fact on any public access page without conclusive proof that it is fact.
Any speculation about my feelings, motives or thoughts be presented respectfully as just that, the speculation and opinions of strangers.

I would also like to state that my rejection of mediation is no reflection on Medcab or any individual mediator I have yet encountered, I have been very much impressed by all. I can assure you that in almost any other instance, involving almost any other user, I would be grateful for the opportunity for mediation. --Zeraeph 22:55, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Oh, it seems I have been quite misleading here. I was speaking soley from a general perspective on that cases should not be thrown away, like they are in Medcom, if one disputant refuses to get involved. This case, however, does appear to be a pure user conduct issue in which Sandy is asking for an explanation. However, Zeraeph has refused, so it does appear that there is little for us to do. My recommendation would be that you two simply try not to get into a future conflict with eachother and head your separate ways, though it seems that little will be able to be done in this case. So, it does appear that this case should probably be closed as it has come to the point where we cannot help. You could address the problems on ANI or ask another Administrator, or someone who appears to understand what's going on, but generally medcab is more for content disputes than user disputes. This case probably should be closed, then, but nonetheless as I stated earlier, the closing procedures should probably be left to cabalists so the case does not go under the radar. Cowman109 00:46, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

That's fine, when I closed it myself I had no idea whether I should or could, and could not find any guidance anywhere, so I just did what I wanted to do.

Let me assure you that User:SandyGeorgia has already been given a full explanation both here and here and here , which all seem clear enough to me, and from her responses she seems to have grasped the gist of what I was saying perfectly well, so it is hard to see why she insists that she does not understand.

I am perfectly happy to stay away from her if she would stay away from me, but last time I let it drop, this and this happened, followed, less than four hours later, by the ingenuous statement "I'd like to understand what has him so upset, and I'd like to get along." above. I find myself staggered that anyone would expect somebody they would make remarks like and about to ever feel like "getting along with" them. I find myself feeling that all she really wants is to find a way to force me to act out a positive attitude to her that I cannot feel and her behavior does not warrant. I also feel that the only kind of explanation she is seeking is one that suits her, instead of those she has already had, which are just honest. --Zeraeph 02:36, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Compromise offers

This section is for listing and discussing compromise offers.

Discussion

While using the talk page of the article in question to solve a dispute is encouraged to involve a larger audience, feel free to discuss the case below if that is not possible. Other mediators are also encouraged to join in on the discussion as Misplaced Pages is based on consensus.

More than a week has elapsed since Zeraeph's first MedCab request, with no change in status: there seems to be little benefit in keeping the case open. Sandy 20:05, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Category:

Misplaced Pages Mediation Cabal closed cases