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== Dubious == | |||
As I was copyediting this article, I found some information in it that I find dubious. (Much of the article is unsourced.) In particular, the article claims "Tacitus stated that the Germans were passionately fond of dicing", but there were no "Germans" at that time, and any such term would be an anachronism. There were Gauls, Franks, Celts, Teutons, and Goths, all living in that general region and/or providing ancestors for modern Germans, and I'm not sure what group Tacitus referred to. – ] <sup>(])</sup> 17:49, 27 September 2013 (UTC) | |||
== fair and less fair == | |||
Also, the article claims "The word for four in Chinese, Japanese and Korean is a homophone of the word for death and is considered unlucky." Japanese, Korean, and the various languages in China are from different language families and have very different words for both "four" and "death". It isn't a homophone in all these languages. – ] <sup>(])</sup> 18:19, 27 September 2013 (UTC) | |||
How about splitting the "Rarer" table into isohedral (including "long" dice) and other? ] (]) 05:30, 14 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
:I'm curious how that would look. ] (]) 13:07, 14 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
::For anyone who's curious, The Chinese-Japanese-Korean thing is about the Chinese writing system. , the character for 'four' is pronounced the same or similarly as , the character for 'death'. Chinese languages, Japanese, and to a lesser extent Korean all use these characters, so this aversion is shared. Having said that, the connection to this topic is really "dicey", and I would have no problem cutting it from the article. ] (]) 08:07, 28 September 2013 (UTC) | |||
::Most of the non-isohedral dice have the word "truncated" in the table. All ]s, all ]s and ], and (effectively) all long dice are isohedral. ] (]) 05:28, 15 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
⚫ | == Die or Dice == | ||
:::Three points for "dicey". I too think it should be omitted. – ] <sup>(])</sup> 13:49, 29 September 2013 (UTC) | |||
For articles like ], ], ] and many others, the article title is singular, though several of the objects are usually used together. | |||
The use of "Germans" probably refers to the tribes of Germania as collectively identified in this way by the Romans. It seems to me one of those ''acceptable'' historical anachronisms. For example retrospectively referring to the ], what was going on in "England" when it was clearly individual Anglo-Saxon/Danish kingdoms or referring to Christopher Columbus as Italian before such a country existed. Now to the red fours. A linked article says now about India being the origin of red fours. ''Why?''. Like thirteen in the west, four is an unlucky number in much of the far East and there have been sources to say the Red is a lucky colour used to compensate the bad luck. The origins of unlucky four may or may not be down to the homophone with death in Chinese, but it does not need to also be a homophone in other languages for the supistition to spread. ] (]) 08:45, 23 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
For dice, the singular can be ''die'' or ''dice'' and the plural is ''dice''. Thus, the title ] could be either, but the start of the article makes it seem to be plural: | |||
:I dispute that those anachronisms are acceptable for an encyclopedia. They are not NPOV because they are deliberate attempts to construct nationalistic narratives around ill-fitting historical facts. Your cited examples are more obviously non-neutral than the usage in this article that you mean to support by them so they actually undermine your case. ] (]) 03:16, 23 May 2014 (UTC) | |||
:'''''Dice''' (sg.: '''die''' or '''dice''') are small, throwable objects ...'' | |||
(my point being: this only makes sense if the first word is understood as plural). | |||
This is kind of odd, I think. Would this be better? | |||
:''A '''die''' (sg. die or '''dice''', pl. '''dice''') is a small, throwable object ... | |||
Logically, one might say this should go with renaming the article ], but I wouldn't support renaming. | |||
Also, given title ], this would be more logical: | |||
:''A '''dice''' (sg. dice or '''die''', pl. '''dice''') is a small, throwable object ... | |||
but I actually prefer my first version. Or perhaps this: | |||
:''A '''die''' (sg. also '''dice''', pl. '''dice''') is a small, throwable object ... | |||
Thoughts? ] (]) 08:03, 30 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
:I support: A '''dice''' ({{singular}} dice or ''' die'''; {{plural form}} dice) is a small, throwable object... <span style="font-family:cursive;color:DarkBlue;cursor:help"><span>]</span><sup>(])</sup></span> 08:29, 30 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
::The line about Tacitus and the "Germans" appears to be derived from the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica . I'll leave it to someone else to actually track down where they got it from, but as I recall, there's a lot of stuff attributed to Tacitus that only survives 2nd or 3rd hand, much like it ended up in this article. ] is a valid historical concept, so calling them Germans is slightly clumsy, but I don't think this is non-neutral. ] (]) 03:40, 23 May 2014 (UTC) | |||
::That would be logical, yes! | |||
::Arguably, with that lead, it would be odd that we throughout the article use the singular '''die''', and I don't think we should change that, which is why I prefer "A die (...) is". | |||
::(We use "die" 73 times and "dice" 129 times, and though I haven't checked all 129 instances, it seems that when we use "dice" it is either plural or dice as a concept, where using the plural form is at least possible.) ] (]) 10:28, 30 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::Only idiots use dice as a singular.--] (]) (]) 18:45, 31 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
::::Why would you want to be so rude? Both forms are correct. ] (]) 16:43, 1 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
== |
== Where, if at all, to put basic stat info for nDs dice == | ||
A while back, related to some research I was doing, I needed to gather some basic info about the results you get when rolling nDs+c and nDs-c dice -- It discussed the minimum value, maximum value, and most likely value(s) you get for particular nm s and c, including when the adjusted rolls would result in a negative value. This info has been useful for my fellow gamers, and I think it would be of interest to other d20 players, as well as those interested in dice probability, and perhaps probability more generally. As far as I was able to discover, this info is not grouped together in one place on the Web -- or, if it is, I could not find after a lot of googling. | |||
With ] you can play ], ], ], .. ].., etc. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 06:54, 20 August 2014 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
:Do you want to suggest any changes to the article? It seems to me applications of dice is sufficiently covered in the article, with wikilinks to relevant articles.--] (]) 19:24, 20 August 2014 (UTC) | |||
I've been told by a knowledgeable editor that such info is too detailed for the Dice page. Dice Notation was suggested as a location for it, but that page is about (several different) dice notations, and doesn't really get into the probability behavior of info related to them (sensible; the page is about notation, not stats). It also seems inappropriate to place this info on its own page; seems too detailed for that. So, I'd like the community's input: Is there an appropriate page for this info? Should it be on a new page after all? Or it is just too esoteric to be in Misplaced Pages? | |||
This article is wrong. Don't read it! <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 19:11, 2 September 2014 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
Many thanks for your advice! ] (]) 23:14, 19 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Image falls outside of border in mobile == | |||
== Probability theory == | |||
I was looking at this page in mobile view, and the image at the top of the page (at least) appeared to extend outside of the box for it, covering some of the page text. If it's necessary, I was using an iPad (unsure of version: school-owned) in a horizontal orientation. ] (]) 17:57, 24 March 2015 (UTC) | |||
Obviously, ] is not something we should get into detalis about in this article. However, I think one, reading this article, should be no more than a click or two away from getting info about the relevant probability theory when throwing e.g. two identical dice, or two differently coloured dice, simultaneously. Perhaps it can be fixed by adding an appropriate link in the section ], but I'm not sure how, or what to link. Ideas? ] (]) 12:07, 28 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
⚫ | == |
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:I added a brief paragraph to the "Use" section, linking to probability theory. I agree, it should be somewhere in the article, and this looked like a good spot to me. ] (]) 06:29, 8 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
::Thanks! ] (]) 08:20, 8 November 2024 (UTC) |
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fair and less fair
How about splitting the "Rarer" table into isohedral (including "long" dice) and other? —Tamfang (talk) 05:30, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
- I'm curious how that would look. BOZ (talk) 13:07, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
- Most of the non-isohedral dice have the word "truncated" in the table. All Catalan solids, all bipyramids and trapezohedra, and (effectively) all long dice are isohedral. —Tamfang (talk) 05:28, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
Die or Dice
For articles like Token, Chess piece, Coin and many others, the article title is singular, though several of the objects are usually used together.
For dice, the singular can be die or dice and the plural is dice. Thus, the title Dice could be either, but the start of the article makes it seem to be plural:
- Dice (sg.: die or dice) are small, throwable objects ...
(my point being: this only makes sense if the first word is understood as plural). This is kind of odd, I think. Would this be better?
- A die (sg. die or dice, pl. dice) is a small, throwable object ...
Logically, one might say this should go with renaming the article Die, but I wouldn't support renaming. Also, given title Dice, this would be more logical:
- A dice (sg. dice or die, pl. dice) is a small, throwable object ...
but I actually prefer my first version. Or perhaps this:
- A die (sg. also dice, pl. dice) is a small, throwable object ...
Thoughts? Nø (talk) 08:03, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
- I support: A dice (sg. dice or die; pl. dice) is a small, throwable object... Alexeyevitch 08:29, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
- That would be logical, yes!
- Arguably, with that lead, it would be odd that we throughout the article use the singular die, and I don't think we should change that, which is why I prefer "A die (...) is".
- (We use "die" 73 times and "dice" 129 times, and though I haven't checked all 129 instances, it seems that when we use "dice" it is either plural or dice as a concept, where using the plural form is at least possible.) Nø (talk) 10:28, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
- Only idiots use dice as a singular.--User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 18:45, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
- Why would you want to be so rude? Both forms are correct. Nø (talk) 16:43, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
- Only idiots use dice as a singular.--User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 18:45, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
Where, if at all, to put basic stat info for nDs dice
A while back, related to some research I was doing, I needed to gather some basic info about the results you get when rolling nDs+c and nDs-c dice -- It discussed the minimum value, maximum value, and most likely value(s) you get for particular nm s and c, including when the adjusted rolls would result in a negative value. This info has been useful for my fellow gamers, and I think it would be of interest to other d20 players, as well as those interested in dice probability, and perhaps probability more generally. As far as I was able to discover, this info is not grouped together in one place on the Web -- or, if it is, I could not find after a lot of googling.
I've been told by a knowledgeable editor that such info is too detailed for the Dice page. Dice Notation was suggested as a location for it, but that page is about (several different) dice notations, and doesn't really get into the probability behavior of info related to them (sensible; the page is about notation, not stats). It also seems inappropriate to place this info on its own page; seems too detailed for that. So, I'd like the community's input: Is there an appropriate page for this info? Should it be on a new page after all? Or it is just too esoteric to be in Misplaced Pages?
Many thanks for your advice! Eclectucator (talk) 23:14, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
Probability theory
Obviously, probability theory is not something we should get into detalis about in this article. However, I think one, reading this article, should be no more than a click or two away from getting info about the relevant probability theory when throwing e.g. two identical dice, or two differently coloured dice, simultaneously. Perhaps it can be fixed by adding an appropriate link in the section Dice#Use, but I'm not sure how, or what to link. Ideas? Nø (talk) 12:07, 28 October 2024 (UTC)
- I added a brief paragraph to the "Use" section, linking to probability theory. I agree, it should be somewhere in the article, and this looked like a good spot to me. Fieari (talk) 06:29, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks! Nø (talk) 08:20, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
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