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Revision as of 19:59, 12 July 2015 view sourceSerialjoepsycho (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Rollbackers6,226 edits I've been asked to shorten my comments. Since I'm wasting my time anyway I'll just rewrite it← Previous edit Latest revision as of 04:54, 26 December 2024 view source MJL (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Page movers, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers, Template editors42,349 edits →Sabotage of Lindy Li's page: removing case as premature: declinedTag: Manual revert 
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== Abuse of COIN ==
'''Initiated by ''' <font style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">]</font><sup>]]</sup> '''at''' 01:35, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

=== Involved parties ===
<!-- Please change "userlinks" to "admin" if the party is an administrator -->
*{{userlinks|Atsme}}, ''filing party''
*{{userlinks|Jytdog}}
*{{userlinks|Alexbrn}}
*{{userlinks|Ca2james}}
*{{userlinks|Kevmin}}
*{{admin|DGG}}
*<s>{{userlinks|Cwmhiraeth}}</s>
*<s>{{userlinks|Serialjoepsycho}}</s>
*<s>{{admin|Risker}}</s>
*<s>{{admin|Doc James}}</s>
*<s>{{admin|Someguy1221}}</s>
*<s>{{admin|Ronhjones}}</s>

;Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
<!-- All parties must be notified that the request has been filed, immediately after it is posted, and confirmation posted here. -->
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*

;Confirmation that other steps in ] have been tried
*
*

=== Statement by Atsme ===
I respectfully request an extension of the allowed word count as the information demonstrates behavioral patterns, sharp contrasts and double standards in advocacy editing, breaches of privacy, abuse of COIN, and cabal-like behavior.

Jytdog prepared and presented a case against me at COIN that was not only handled improperly, it was punitive. He conducted an intense investigation, probing deep into my RL off-wiki, and equally as deep on WP to uncover a discussion at ELN in 2011. I was still a newbie and trustingly disclosed my affiliation with Earthwave Society; a volunteer position as exec dir of a small educational nonprofit consisting of nothing but volunteers. I was also a founder of the organization with help from a group of biologists back in the 90s. I was unaware that my disclosure could possibly cause me harm until a more experienced editor advised me, suggesting that I contact the OS team to have it removed which I did. I'm not implying my disclosure was wrong rather that I should have handled it differently.

Came back after a 2 year hiatus and announced retirement. I discovered more RW info on WP. {{u|Someguy1221}} and {{u|ronhjones}} removed it. I thought it was gone but as this case demonstrates, it was not. The mistakes I made as a newbie in 2011 are my own but I did not deserve what happened to me at COIN or what arose at ] and ] as a result.

* Jytdog posted a link to a FB page in my suite of personal pages, but the ELs in question were linked to the official site for . I have since removed the FB page because of RW exposure at COIN.
*Jytdog had the declaration from 2011 and the notice of my retirement on my user page. A simple email from him or brief post on my TP would have sufficed if he had questions.

The evidence will demonstrate an agenda of ill-will behind Jytdog's actions. I asked him to remove the personal info but he refused. I attempted it myself but was reverted by ] and ], , and , the latter two tags still remain despite other editors replacing the cited material and ELs. I contacted the OS team for help regarding my RW information. {{u|Risker}} was the OS admin on my id case and also closed the COIN case.

I'm of clear mind regarding my contributions to the handful of fish articles presented in the case at COIN. The edits were made after my retirement in 2014 and are compliant with ].
*Jytdog wrongfully listed ] which I never edited;
*He also listed ] based on my FB blog and probed deep into my personal information and domain registrations trying to find a link between me, Racz and Earthwave.

Arising from the COIN case in a patterned cabal-like fashion, a group of <s>proj med</s> editors (the majority of whom I've had prior disagreements) descended on the Racz BLP in a flurry, nominated it for reassessment, took control of it and reduced its readable prose by at least 1/3 to fit their POV and writing style, all without consensus. In contrast is the WP:OWN cabal-like behavior at ] regarding NPOV and a SOAPBOX for skepticism. Diffs will example double standard and advocacy.
* Alexbrn's edit summary stated, {{xt|...the lurking suspicion of a COI taint, and - with a flurry of recent edits - the article is now unstable. Couldn't be a clearer case for de-listing, really.}}
*, The irony of Alexbrn having COI issues of his own <s>that were never declared.</s>.
* Reviewer, Cwmhiraeth, stood by original GA assessment.
* Jytdog's link to create more suspicion.
* DGG's edits to Racz were riddled with errors.
* Harsh unwarranted criticism by DGG
* a sharp contrast of DGG's position and lack of editing to resolve advocacy issues that consume the BLP.
*, Jytdog added recruiting tag and wrongfully accused me of canvassing.
* IP tag-teaming "second times a charm".

;COIN being used for bullying and an excuse to probe
* Casting aspersions - evidence of probing into GoDaddy domain registration.
* Trying to satisfy doubts, I requested an update to the EWS website to reflect emeritus status.
* At first, I only suspected Jytdog's motives were punitive or retaliatory. Emails will confirm. I asked if he would release them to be presented here.
* An uninvolved editor also recognized case was mishandled and punitive.

;The COIN close
* First close by Risker, a true representation of the situation.
* Updated close dismissing my retirement, believing I misrepresented involvement.
* I asked Risker to reconsider.
* The depth of Jytdog's probing into my personal life.
* Risker told Jytdog that "he is not, under any circumstances, entitled to this level of personal information about anybody on Misplaced Pages, COI or not."

;Jytdog's enjoyment of impunity as a volunteer at COIN
Our PAGs do not support infinite tethering to a disclosure or declaration of a volunteer position in an all-volunteer organization, emeritus status, or any other past affiliations. If I'm mistaken then it should apply across the board including experts, professionals, grant funded academia, advocates of causes, etc..
#Jytdog made a "self-declaration" as a biotech but did not name his affiliations or employer(s). ]
#He denies a COI or advocacy; the majority of his edits are highly controversial and include issues relating to human health.
#His comments off-wiki confirm his advocacy and possible COI in academia. The articles he edits reflect same and have raised numerous questions by others.
:* Jytdog: ''I support BIO’s advocacy and education efforts and believe they are important;''
:* jytdog says: May 28, 2013 at 2:42 am Thanks for responding Madelaine. I work in academia, and I find it laughable that people think academic scientists are somehow free of conflict. Academic science is pretty darn cut-throat – you live and die by getting grants awarded, and you get grants awarded if you are able to publish work based on your prior grant, and the more “relevant” you can make it, the better. I have seen paper after paper on good basic science strain to push its conclusions to find some direct tie to health. I have seen poor paper after poor paper too, do the same thing.

I ask that the ARBCOM give this case request careful consideration as it will further reveal important advocacy issues and the very disconcerting cabal-like behavior that GF editors are being subjected to, such as the intense probe into my personal life. PAGs that were designed to resolve disputes are being <s>used</s> abused to further support the goals of advocacies by ridding WP of all opposition...one editor at a time.

=====Response to Beyond My Ken=====
Perhaps I misunderstood the clerks. I thought I was supposed to name all whose names are mentioned in the case. Not just those who presented an issue. <font style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">]</font><sup>]]</sup> 03:19, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

=====Response to DGG=====
I struck the proj med reference. No, DGG, it wasn't about me not accepting criticism. Doc James made a list of things that were helpful, I addressed them. It was about you removing passages from a GA, and adding nonsensical mistakes, such as: "the Racz procedure for the treatment for lysis of adhesions from around entrapped nerves " Excuse me, but as I explained on the TP, lysis of adhesions ''is'' the treatment. You also removed the reason Racz fled Hungary while you were deleting big chunks of information without consensus. It was far from being an improvement of an already reviewed GA. I was aBanned for a week at Kombucha for a series of 2 reverts made a week apart. It's about double standards, cabal-like behavior, POV pushing and advocacies that are supported by groups of editors. You used to be a biotech at one time, didn't you? <font style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">]</font><sup>]]</sup> 06:04, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

====Response to Capitalismojo====
There was no copyvio. The fact that it appears to be a primary focus, I sent an email to the address listed for the author of the CV and the cited bio at the WIP to confirm public domain use. It's the weekend so I doubt I'll hear anything for at least a couple of days. Our PAGs suggest such a procedure anyway if there's doubt. There is fair use, and there are lists of credentials which is where the claimed copyvio is supposed to exist. Listing a person's credentials is not a copyvio. <font style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">]</font><sup>]]</sup> 07:31, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

=====Response to Andy The Grump=====
There has not been one instance I can recall in my interactions with ATG that he didn't revert my edits and discourage my participation. I'll just sum it up with his most recent reverts of a passage I added to improve an essay I created and co-authored:
, The end result was that I stopped editing the essay and AndyTheGrump got his way. <font style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">]</font><sup>]]</sup> 05:02, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

=== Question by Beyond My Ken ===
Atsme: Do I understand you correctly to be claiming that Jytdog, Alexbrn, Ca2james, Kevmin, Cwmhiraeth, Serialjoepsycho, Risker, Doc James, DGG, Someguy1221, and Ronhjones have formed a "cabal" (your word) to mistreat you, and that you have done nothing untoward whatsoever? ] (]) 02:41, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

=== Statement by Non-party Capitalismojo ===
I've been watching this unfold over a variety of pages. The OP seems to have difficulty with ] and understanding explanations of ]. A series of experienced editors and admins including Doc James and DGG have been trying to advise and guide this editor on the COI issue/ puffery issues/ COPYVIO issues. I think they have been remarkably gentle in correcting the OP's improper edits. She has taken this effort as a cabal out for revenge. She particulary has been unable to grasp that there is no outing when ''she'' has posted (and re-posted, and re-posted above) her own position as executive director of the Earthwave Society. I'd suggest rather than an ARBCOM case that a strong mentor be connected with the editor, preferably someone who can explain COI. ] (]) 02:45, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

=== Statement by uninvolved AndyTheGrump ===
As has frequently been noted (see for example the arbitrators' opinions closing the Zeitgeist arbitration request above), the purpose of ArbCom is to resolve issues that the community has ''failed to resolve elsewhere''. As far as I can see, the COIN discussion closed more of less in Atsme's favour, stating (correctly in my opinion) that there was no real COI issue involved, that we don't retrospectively apply a 2014 policy to 2011 edits, and that the appropriate course of action is to assess the Earthwave material by normal external links standards. Neither Atsme's claims of a 'cabal' acting against her in regard to the Racz biography, of other contributors violating COI policy, or anything else mentioned in her statement seem to have been discussed at ANI, or at any other form of dispute resolution. Accordingly, since the community has not had a chance to resolve the issues - or even had them brought to their collective attention - it would seem premature for ArbCom to take the case. ] (]) 03:12, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

:Addendum: I describe myself as 'uninvolved', in that I've not been involved in the specific disputes Atsme describes in her submission. If this case is to be expanded per Jytdog to include the multiple other instances where Atsme has been in dispute with one person or another, I'm clearly 'involved' - though there would seem to be even weaker grounds for expanding this case to include such disputes here than there is for accepting Atsme's initial submission. If there is a ''general problem'' with Atsme's behaviour (I'll not offer an opinion, given my past disputes with her), it should be put to the community to resolve first - and only if the community can't do so should ArbCom become involved. ] (]) 03:50, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

::And a response to Atsme's comment on me:

::I was not included in the initial submission, and frankly I fail to see what the dispute we had regarding the essay has got to do with any of it. And it is a matter of record that I repeatedly suggested that if she had a problem with my edits there, she should raise the matter at ANI. That she chooses to raise the matter now, in an ArbCom submission on another subject entirely, may well support the general impression of a battlefield mentality - and if she wants do discuss the matter here, I will of course ask her to provide evidence for the claims she made at ], where she asserted that I had been "harassing/hounding/stalking" her, and that I was "exhibiting WP:OWN on the essay". Given that the statements are clearly untrue, I have little expectation that such evidence would be forthcoming. ] (]) 05:33, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

=== Statement by Jytdog===
With regard to any COI I might have, I voluntarily disclosed my identity to an oversighter as described ]. I'll disclose to Arbcom if desired.

*The COIN case about Atsme was closed with a finding of COI by Risker . Atsme her relationship with Earthwave here in WP. The COIN filing was legit and her editing when she came back in 2014 was promotional for Earthwave by making their website the most-cited source in 2 of the articles she edited and adding ELs to it, despite a finding of no consensus to use it even for ELs in 2011. Atsme refers to the as her "personal FBsite" above. As the founder and Executive Director of Earthwave, that small organization is indeed "hers". Her resistance to accepting her COI (which in the big picture of WP has only affected a few articles) and being this combative about it, is a snapshot of her attitude in WP. Never wrong, and fights like mad.

*I suggest that Arbcom consider not accepting this case, but instead close it with a significant block for Atsme, as a disruptive editor who is unwilling to accept community ]. This is not happy, but that seems to be where we are.

* I first encountered Atsme at the ] article where she disrupted that article from Dec 2014 until March 2015, making 370 edits on Talk per , which included bringing sources like naturalnews to play up benefits and downplay risks of a FRINGE cancer treatment, ]. Walls of text making strong claims like +4,967. We went to BLPN ] and ], the Fringe Noticeboard ] and ], and RSN ] (you can see the kind of sources she brought) At none of which, did her views find support.

** When she entered that article, I tried to warn her to go slow and to no avail.

*The next drama was her "COI ducks" essay, which the community snow-deleted ] - it cast community consensus as conspiracy.

*Next was ] where she again downplayed risks and played up the benefits of an alt-med product (like ), and adamantly, which led to a temporary topic ban by {{u|Callanecc}} for edit warring under DS, which ], attacking him, and doing that more at ].

* At ] which she created and had GA reviewed, and which is now ], she made personal attacks against several editors including {{u|Doc James}}, per ], and DGG, instead of dealing with the problems in that article - as {{u|Serialjoepsycho}}, advised her to do and and . Again to no avail. ] (]) 15:29, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

*{{u|AndyTheGrump}} the close was correct in finding a COI, but incorrect in saying that the conflicted edits occurred in 2011. ] (]) 03:18, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

*{{u|Risker}} - The COI issues are more pervasive than the one editor; see ]. ] (]) 04:26, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

* {{u| Thryduulf}} i hear you and will step back from COIN work for a bit; I know well that COI issues are controversial in general and that my COI work can be too. The specific ANI case appears to be going no where, but I am very open to hearing concerns at my Talk page or elsewhere. ] (]) 15:29, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

* {{u|Serialjoepsycho}} as DGG , Atsme reverted efforts to improve the article; your claim is not fair. ] (]) 15:29, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

===Statement by DGG===
With respect to my edits: For the first, , just what are the errors? I probably did make some typos--I often do. For the 2nd and 3rd, I stand by what I said. I am not surprised to be included here, for I do not automatically support Atsme everywhere, though I have supported her when I think she is right, as I did for some of the material challenged at the Gorski article-- in the very comment complained of here.

I am not to the best of my recollection a member of project med, excellent project though it is. Indeed, I have had sufficient disagreements with some of the regular med editors here, that I normally avoid med articles , except for bios and companies, my usual specialties in all fields. For one thing, I take a considerably more open attitude to the inclusion of articles on alt med people and subjects than most of them--but I take the same strict attitude as they do to NPOV in our coverage on those subjects.

As I see it, the principal problem is Atsme's refusal to accept legitimate criticism and to assert article ownership. As she apparently sees it, her approach to an article is always the right one. I leave it to others to decide if there is any realistic process of her changing. ''']''' (]) 03:46, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

=== Statement by Risker ===
I am very involved in another matter (ironically, one that involves a real violation of the same section of the Terms of Use) and will also be traveling in the near future, so I do not expect to make a full statement in this matter. However, I do wish to draw to the attention of the Committee {{oldid2|671062048|Mass_deletion_.2F_PROD_.2F_redirect_of_mall_articles_under_the_guise_of_WP:COI|this report at ANI}} involving Jytdog. Many of the articles involved have been present on Misplaced Pages for several ''years'' before there were any COI edits to them, and shopping mall articles are, often as not, considered to meet the GNG. There is a pattern of behaviour here, not simply isolated to this case. ] (]) 04:06, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

====Brief reply to Jytdog====
The terms of use are not retroactive. I've looked at a handful of the articles, and in many cases the majority of the article has been rewritten by completely non-conflicted editors. I've just removed a COI tag you put on one of them, alleging that the COI editor was a "major contributor". He made one edit - adding the address of the shopping mall - factual information that is not in conflict. And one edit, which I note still remains in the article, does not justify the addition of a COI tag to the top of the article. This kind of sloppiness has to stop. ] (]) 04:32, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

<small> Note: That ANI link is crying out for a permanent link, but I can never find {{u|Bishonen}}'s magic links page when I need it. If someone could make that a permalink, I'd appreciate it. ] (]) 03:54, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
:{{done}}: permalinked to the (presently) current revision, {{U|Risker}}. ''']<font color="darkgreen">]</font>''' 04:24, 12 July 2015 (UTC)</small>
::<small> Thank you! ] (]) 04:32, 12 July 2015 (UTC)</small>

=== Statement by Serialjoepsycho ===
Atsme is not innocent. Neither is anyone else. The COIN case was piss poor and strongly bordered incompetence if it wasn't an attempt to be vindictive. ] and ] could have handled any real concerns in the case without digging out Atsme's personal information from a long forgotten post and displaying it publically. The GAR was mistimed and has a questionable participation. The appearance of impropriety is present and easily explains Atsme's questionable conduct at the GAR.

Other than opening the GAR at a poor time I don't think Doc James has really done anything wrong. They have offered comment on legitimate article issues. Doc James in the future I hope you will consider the atmosphere before opening a GAR. A toxic Atmosphere can discourage participation from some involved parties (such as Atsme's participation) as well as uninvolved parties. The majority of participants are involved in one way or another.

Alot of Drama could have been avoided if Jytdog would have practiced a little discretion at COIN. Consider doing so in the future.] (]) 19:59, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

=== Statement by Kevmin ===
Im surprised to see myself listed, as the only interaction I had was to initially restore COI tags to the talkpages of ] () ] () and ] (), the three of which happen to be on my watchlist in connection to my editing of them/related taxa to add paleontology information. I did not interact with user:Atsme after except to note on my talk page that the templates should not be removed until resolution was found in the COI case (). I'm not sure how that was transformed into me being a part of cabal, and i will point out that 99.5% or more of my editing is the addition of Paleontology articles and I have never interacted with Atsme before.--]] ] 05:57, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

===Statement by Doc James===

I work alot on the detection of copyright issues. I believe that not dealing with them exposes our movement to negative press. Ca2james has described the copyright issues that were previously present in the article well here . We need mechanisms that check for copyright issues, especially before articles are promoted to GA/FA as exemplified by this and other cases.

Now the issues have been mostly fixed in this article. What I view as concerning is that statement by Atsme that ""

With respect to Earthwave, Atsme should not be adding links from the site and should not edit content directly pertaining to it. Writing about fish I view as okay as long as they are using sources not related to Earthwave. The fact that Eartwave is used 7 times as a ref ] by this user per , and is the most frequently used ref here ] may require looking into. But not my interest so will leave it to others.

Would also be good for Atsme to make sure no further close paraphrasing has occurred in their other articles. I do not see enough here for an Arbcom case. The COIN has been closed. ] (] · ] · ]) 06:07, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

=== Statement by alexbrn ===
Although this is called "abuse of COIN" the COI aspect here seems relatively straightforward: a post was made at COI/N and the case closed with the finding of a (minor) COI on {{u|Atsme}}'s part.

The underlying issues are more troubling. {{u|Atsme}} appears to view anything that happens on WP that she doesn't like as a personal attack - as part of some grand conspiracy. With each new editor who enters the fray and doesn't share her views, the conspiracy is seen as growing. The absurd conclusion to this has already been anticipated by {{u|Atsme}} who has declared if arbcom find against her it will merely prove the unworthiness of Misplaced Pages: "if the unpredictability of ARBCOM gives them a free pass and me a block or ban, then at least I'll know where WP stands and I can move on to bigger and better things". In Atsme's world Atsme is never at fault, it's always the cabal's fault. This conspiracist mindset has manifested itself in myriad disruptions.

Without some prior attempt at resolution by the community (probably at AN/I) this case is premature here. ] (]) 06:17, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

=== Statement by {Non-party} ===

Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the case request or provide additional information.
<!-- * Please copy this section for the next person. * -->

=== Clerk notes ===
:''This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).''
*

=== Abuse of COIN: Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter <0/2/1/0> ===
{{anchor|1=Abuse of COIN: Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter}}<small>Vote key: (Accept/decline/recuse/other)</small>
*obviously, I'm recusing from this. I have made a statement above & I shall give evidence if the case is accepted. ''']''' (]) 03:16, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
*'''Decline''' as proposed, and suggest ANI. There is too little in the COIN issue to warrant a case. There is some weight in the editor conduct concerns, but admin noticeboards are a better port of first call. -- ] (]) 07:32, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
*'''Decline''', certainly as filed I do not see that there is systematic abuse of the COI noticeboard, or anything approaching that, that needs investigating. What we actually have here is two editors, Atsme and Jytdog, who both have (independent but overlapping) issues regarding their editing and behaviour that need looking at individually, but it appears that ANI has not been tried yet so it needs to go there first. ] I strongly suggest stepping away from COI issues until you have taken on board the community's concerns (expressed well by Risker) regarding your editing in the area, if you don't then I would not be surprised to see a topic ban proposed at AN/I. ] (]) 10:33, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

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  • Sign submissions. In order for arbitrators and other participants to understand the order of submissions, sign your submission and each addition (using ~~~~).
  • Word limit violations. Submissions that exceed the word limit will generally be "hatted" (collapsed), and arbitrators may opt not to consider them.
  • Counting words. Words are counted on the rendered text (not wikitext) of the statement (i.e., the number of words that you would see by copy-pasting the page section containing your statement into a text editor or word count tool). This internal gadget may also be helpful.
  • Sanctions. Please note that members and clerks of the Committee may impose appropriate sanctions when necessary to promote the effective functioning of the arbitration process.

General guidance

  • This page is for statements, not discussion.
  • Arbitrators or clerks may refactor or delete statements, e.g. off-topic or unproductive remarks, without warning.
  • Banned users may request arbitration via the committee contact page; don't try to edit this page.
  • Under no circumstances should you remove requests from this page, or open a case (even for accepted requests), unless you are an arbitrator or clerk.
  • After a request is filed, the arbitrators will vote on accepting or declining the case. The <0/0/0> tally counts the arbitrators voting accept/decline/recuse.
  • Declined case requests are logged at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Index/Declined requests. Accepted case requests are opened as cases, and logged at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Index/Cases once closed.