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== Your submission at ]: ] has been accepted ==
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] (]) 12:10, 23 June 2015 (UTC)</div><!--Template:Afc talk-->

== Reply to your ] question ==

] Hello, Saff V.! I'm ]. I have replied to your question about a submission at the ]. ] (]) 14:26, 24 June 2015 (UTC)<!-- Template:AFCHD/u -->

== Your submission at ]: ] (June 28) ==
<div style="border: solid 1px #FCC; background-color: #F8EEBC; padding: 0.5em 1em; color: #000; margin: 1.5em; width: 90%;"> ]Your recent article submission to ] has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time.<nowiki> </nowiki>The reason left by Happysquirrel was:

{{divbox|gray|3=This submission does not appear to be written in ]. Entries should be written from a ], and should refer to a range of ]. Please rewrite your submission in a more encyclopedic format. Please make sure to avoid ], that are designed to promote or show-off the subject.|}} Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit <u>when they have been resolved</u>.
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] (]) 18:49, 28 June 2015 (UTC)</div><!--Template:Afc decline-->


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I noticed your article was declined at Articles for Creation, and that can be disappointing. If you are wondering or curious about why your article submission was declined please post a question at the ''']'''. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the ''']''', a friendly space on Misplaced Pages where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! ] (]) 18:49, 28 June 2015 (UTC)</div>
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== A belated welcome! ==

]]]Here's wishing you a belated ], Saff V.. I see that you've already been around a while and wanted to thank you for ]. Though you seem to have been successful in finding your way around, you may benefit from following some of the links below, which help editors get the most out of Misplaced Pages:
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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a ]! If you have any questions, feel free to leave me a message on ], consult ], or place {{tl|helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there.

Again, welcome! ] (]) 18:50, 28 June 2015 (UTC)<!-- Template:Welcome-belated -->

== Your submission at ]: ] has been accepted ==
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You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to ]. {{#if:{{#invoke:IPAddress|isIp|1=Saff V.}}
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] (]) 15:16, 29 June 2015 (UTC)</div><!--Template:Afc talk-->

Congratulations on the article! It was much more informative. Here is some basic followup and advice to help you with future articles and help you improve this one. Please excuse my heavy reliance on Catholic examples, but I am Catholic and I don't want to misuse examples I don't understand.
*Misplaced Pages has to stay neutral. This means that we cannot state the truth of any religious position in Misplaced Pages's voice. What we can do is say "Muslims believe", "the Catholic Church teaches", "according to the New Testament" or "Dawkins says that" and then say what they say. Note where I added this to the article. If you can give more specific in-text attribution, that would be amazing!
*When you say the "context" of a prayer, I am rather confused, could you specify? I just left those sentences as is, but they should be clarified.
*You can pipe links. This means that the text of the link need not be the title of the linked article. What you do is write <nowiki>]</nowiki> and you have a piped link.
*I added Gabriel in parenthesis to the article text. Feel free to remove. I just thought that since anyone Christian or with a Christian cultural background will recognize that name better, it might improve comprehension for a large number of your readers.
Anyways, nice job on the article. It was a pleasure to review and accept it. Happy editing! ] (]) 15:27, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

== How to format GoogleBooks links ==

Hello Saff, I notice that some of your footnotes are just cited as a title and "google.com". This is unhelpful because a reader can't easily see the author, date, publisher, etc. of the book.

If you have any footnote to a book on GoogleBooks, please just take the link and plug it into the tool at http://reftag.appspot.com, and it will ''instantly'' give you a fully-formatted Misplaced Pages footnote you can paste in. Please just take 10-15 minutes, and go to the articles you have published so far, and use that tool to format your footnotes so they are nice, clear, and full. That way too, if the link is ever broken (due to websites changing), readers can still see exactly what book you mean, and find a better/current link. It's a ''very'' useful tool and I use it all the time, so good luck with it! ] (]) 02:04, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

::Thanks for the useful link and tool.] (]) 09:46, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

==Talkback==
{{talkback|Masum Ibn Musa|Category|ts=06:56, 3 July 2015 (UTC)}}
<span style="white-space:nowrap;">&mdash;] <sup>]</sup></span> 06:56, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

==Disambiguation link notification for July 3==

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== Your submission at ]: ] (July 12) ==
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] (]) 13:52, 12 July 2015 (UTC)</div><!--Template:Afc decline-->

== Your submission at ]: ] (July 20) ==
<div style="border: solid 1px #FCC; background-color: #F8EEBC; padding: 0.5em 1em; color: #000; margin: 1.5em; width: 90%;"> ]Your recent article submission to ] has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time.<nowiki> </nowiki>The reason left by Sulfurboy was:

{{divbox|gray|3=This submission provides insufficient ] for those unfamiliar with the subject matter. Please see the ] for information on how to better format your submission.|}} Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit <u>when they have been resolved</u>.
{{clear}}
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] (]) 23:28, 20 July 2015 (UTC)</div><!--Template:Afc decline-->


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I noticed your article was declined at Articles for Creation, and that can be disappointing. If you are wondering or curious about why your article submission was declined please post a question at the ''']'''. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the ''']''', a friendly space on Misplaced Pages where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! ] (]) 23:28, 20 July 2015 (UTC)</div>
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== Your article ==

I reviewed your article and found it eligible to be transferred to the main space but this does not mean that is complete. You may improve it by finding some more ]. ] (]) 05:04, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

:{{ping|Mhhossein}}Thanks for your help. I have a question. What is orphan and what should I do?] (]) 05:07, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
::This tag shows that there's no link to your article from other articles. In fact you should put the link of your article in other articles so that the readers have the chance of finding this article. ] (]) 05:10, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
::More explanation is found ]. ] (]) 05:11, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

==Incomplete DYK nomination==

] Hello! Your submission of ''']''' at the ] is not complete; see ]. If you do not want to continue with the nomination, tag the nomination page with {{tl|db-g7}}, or ask a ]. Thank you. <!--Template:DYK nomination needs transcluded--> ] (]) 07:19, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

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== GOCE Requests ==

Hi. I had to remove one of your requests because you added three. You're only allowed two at any time (see instructions at the top of ]). As soon as one of them has been done and archived, you may make a new request. Kind regards, --] (]) 12:16, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
:@] Thanks a lot.] (]) 12:31, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

== How to make a proposal ==

I noticed your ]. Please note to instructions on ]. ] (]) 10:42, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

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== Supplication of Abu Hamzah al-Thumali ==

Hello, Saff V. - In response to your request of a copyedit of ] at ], I just read and did my best to copyedit the article. Since I know nothing about the subject, it was not easy. If I've made any errors, please feel free to correct them. If you wish, you can explain to me what you would like to say, and I will try to word it correctly. There were two things I wasn't sure about:

1) In trying to make the second-to-last sentence of the section ] grammatically correct, I had to delete something about "confirmed" or "confirming". If that needs to be in the article, you'll have to figure out a way to express it, or try to explain it to me so that I can put it into correct English.

2) Recited at night/in the evening ''or'' at dawn or recited at night/in the evening ''and'' at dawn? Now I've got "or" in one place and "and" at another. That's got to be made consistent. ] (]) 00:03, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

:I thought of two more things that would improve the article:

1) For non-Muslim readers, you might either explain what "supplication" means in this context (that is, the particular meaning of "supplication" as it is used in this article), and/or link the word to an article or part of an article so readers can read more if they want to.

2) Also, even though the name ] is linked to an article, you might think about giving a few details about when and where he lived and wrote. I don't see a single mention of a date or time period in the article. ] (]) 00:09, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

P.S. Why do you have "Hamzah" in bold at the beginning of the article and "Hamza" throughout the article? ] (]) 00:13, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

::{{ping|Corinne}} Thanks for your contribution in the article. In reply to your question:
1.The better sentence is ''The Shia scholars of biographical evaluation and historians believed that Abu Hamza al-Thumali's narration was accurate. If the difference appear between narrations, scholars prefer his narration and solve the problem. Also, hadiths or narration that have some connection to him are verified by scholars of biographical evaluation such as Najasi, Shaykh Tusi, Ibn Babawayh, and Ibn Shahre Ashub. The Sunni scholars have not confirmed him.'' 2. In the correct style, is better use ''or'' between these words (every night and dawn). Because the Du'a recite one time in day and ], the fourth ] Imam , invoked the Du'a in every night or dawn of ]. Therefore, The correct sentence is ''], the fourth ] Imam , invoked the supplication of Abu Hamza al-Thimali in every night or dawn of ].'' 3. I linked the ''supplication'' word to ] page and in this page readers can read more information about the word. Also, I added ] in the see also. 4. I added Abu Hamza al-Thimali section in the article and wrote a few details about him and his character. 5. The correct spell was ''Hamza'' and ''Hamzah'' replaced with Hamza.] (]) 10:36, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Corinne}}I done and added your notice in the article and have made a number of edits subsequent after has received its copyedit. Therefore, ] stated that ''Reviewer should check that previous issues raised here have been addressed.''] (]) 04:50, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

:::::Saff V., I have made a few more minor changes in wording to improve the clarity of the article. However, there are still some things that need clarifying. I know these things may be clear to you, but they will not be clear to a native speaker of English.

:::::1) First, I'm going to repeat something I said earlier: I strongly recommend giving some indication of when al-Thumali lived. It's not enough to say he was a companion of three imams if your readers don't know when they lived, either. It helps the reader to know when in history al-Thumali lived and worked.

:::::2) This phrase is not clear: "scholars of biographical evaluation". "Biographical evaluation" just doesn't make sense in English. Try to find another way to say this. I'm just going to guess; perhaps one of these will be right (the words separated by slashes (/) are just alternatives from which you can choose):

::::::*scholars who specialize in evaluating the authenticity/accuracy/credentials/quality of earlier scholars / scholars' writings ...

::::::*scholars who evaluate earlier scholars / scholars' writings for , ...

::::::*When evaluating earlier writers / scholars / scholars' writings , Shia scholars...

:::::3) In this sentence in the lead: "The supplication is mentioned in the eqbal al-a’mal of Sayyed Ibn Tawus", the phrase "eqbal al-a’mal" will definitely not be clear to the general reader of Misplaced Pages. I suggest either adding an explanatory phrase after it (or after the author's name) enclosed in a pair of commas, or a short descriptive phrase before it ("the .... eqbal al-a’mal"), or linking it, or some combination of these.

:::::4) In the very first sentence in the lead, "The supplication of Abu Hamza al-Thumali (Arabic: دعاء أبي حمزة الثمالي) is a Du'a narrated from Imam al-Sajjad", the phrase "is...narrated from" does not make sense. (This construction also appears in the section on "Chain of authority" and it doesn't make sense there, either.) The normal usage of the verb ''to narrate'' is in the active voice, followed by an object: "Mr. X narrated the events of the weekend." The verb means "to tell the events "&nbsp;– usually in the order in which they happened. You can say this with passive voice: "The events of the weekend were narrated ." You will see that there is no "from" in either of these. What do you mean by "from"? Maybe "narrate" is not even the right verb here. '''{{U|Joshua Jonathan}}''' Perhaps you can help with this and some of the other issues.

:::::5) In the first section after the lead you have this sentence:

:::::*It was reported on the authority of Ali al-Ridha, who said, "Abu Hamza in his time was like Salman in his time."

:::::When I see this sentence, my first question is, "What is 'it'?" ''What'' was reported? i think maybe this sentence is unnecessarily wordy and could be simplified to something like this:

:::::*Ali al-Ridha also said, "Abu Hamza in his time was like Salman in his time."

:::::What do you think? Would that express what you want to say?

:::::6) In the section on Chain of authority, you have this sentence:

:::::*This Du'a is seen in the Eqbal al-A'mal of Sayyed Ibn Tawus, who writes that the authenticity of the supplication of Abu Hamza al-Thimali reach to Harun ibn Musa ibn Ahmad Talla'ukbara who is a recognized scholar in hadith studies.

:::::In this sentence, it is not clear what this means: "the authenticity of the supplication of Abu Hamza al-Thimali reach to Harun ibn Musa ibn Ahmad Talla'ukbara". First of all, "reach" is in the wrong form or tense. If you mean today, use present tense, and then it should be "reaches to". If you mean in the past, use past tense: "reached to". But even with that correction, it doesn't make sense. How can the authenticity of a written work "reach to" a person? What do you ''really'' mean? Try to explain it to me and I will help you express it right. Well, that's all for now. ] (]) 18:33, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
{{od}}
Hallo Saff V. and Corinne. I took a look at the page, but it's really not my topic. I have no idea what would be common terminology and style of writing in this context, so I'm afraid I can't say anything meaningfull about it. i have added a link to "supplication," though; I didn't even know what that is. Best regards, and succes with the article, ] -] 19:06, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
:'''{{U|Kautilya3}}''' and '''{{U|Ugog Nizdast}}''' Can you help resolve some of these issues? ] (]) 19:14, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
::{{ping|Corinne}} Thanks for your help in editing the article. 1 and 5. First of all, I must to correct the sentence. The correct form is ], the eighth Imam of Shia stated about him: "Abu Hamza in his time was similar to ] in prophet time."

::I want to show the great esteem of Abu Hamza for Imams. Also they considered him as a trustworthy person. Any way I preferred indicate that by nomination to statements of one of Imams. Can you find out my mean?

::2. Text were edited in this form: Historians and scholars who evaluate earlier narrators (based on ]) believed that Abu Hamza al-Thumali's narration was accurate and reliable.

::3. Text were edited in this form: Eqbal al-a’mal - is an Arabic book included Du’a, prayer and practice which have been recommended to perform at specific times of the year-

::4. Text were edited in this form: The ] of Abu Hamza al-Thumali (Arabic: دعاء أبي حمزة الثمالي) is a ] attributed to ].

::6. The correct tens is past form of reach. In Islamic science of narration, when a reliable scholar narrated the ] or ] or etc, we say that this Hadith or supplication has authenticity and is reliable. Another point is a chain of narrators that should be clear. The last link of the chain is Harun ibn Musa ibn Ahmad Talla'ukbara that Sayyed Ibn Tawus narrated supplication of him. In other word Sayyed ibn Tawus received the supplication from Harun ibn Musa ibn Ahmad Talla'ukbara. I hope to make it clear. Thanks for your patient.

::Of course I explained more detail at second sentence of this paragraph. But according to points that you nominated at part 4 and 6 I think, it’s better to rewrite this sentence “According to Eqbal al-A'mal, the chain of authority was described as following: Sayyed Ibn Tawus narrated the supplication from Harun ibn Musa ibn Ahmad Talla'ukbara and he narrated from Hassan bin Mahboob Srad. Finally he narrated from Abu Hamza al-Thimali” to this: “According to Eqbal al-A'mal, the chain of authority was described as following: Sayyed Ibn Tawus received it from Harun ibn Musa ibn Ahmad Talla'ukbara who received it from Hassan bin Mahboob Srad who received it from Abu Hamza al-Thimali who recived it from ]. Is it good? Thanks for your patient.] (]) 10:12, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
::*I'm glad you added the additional information about the eqbal (the work in Arabic). I made a few more changes in the text to make it clearer. I think it is approaching a good article now. However, there are a few things:

:::1) You still didn't clarify "reach to".

:::2) You still didn't clarify "scholars of biographical evaluation" (see above) I didn't see the link to Science of Narration. Is it there? I'll have to look again.

:::3) In the sentence you copied above, "Historians and scholars who evaluate earlier narrators (based on ]) believed that Abu Hamza al-Thumali's narration was accurate and reliable", if "evaluate" is in present tense, then all the verbs that follow in that sentence should be in present tense. Then the sentence would be about scholars evaluating earlier narrators ''today'', or at any time (always true). So I changed "believed" to "believe", "was" to "is". If this is all about scholars in the past, then "evaluate" should be in past tense, and the other verbs can go back to past tense. It all depends on whether you are referring to scholars today or scholars in the past.

:::4) I changed the last part, the chain, to successive adjective clauses, "..., who...", which I think is clearer than "..., and he..." ] (]) 14:59, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
{{od}}
*{{ping|Corinne}} Greeting, Thanks for your help.
:1. My mean of reach to be that ] had received the supplication from Harun ibn Musa ibn Ahmad Talla'ukbara by brokers. So the means of authenticity is that the brokers are reliable. Is it clear?
:My proposal: this sentence ''According to Eqbal al-A'mal, the chain of authority was described as following: Sayyed Ibn Tawus narrated the supplication from Harun ibn Musa ibn Ahmad Talla'ukbara and he narrated from Hassan bin Mahboob Srad. Finally he narrated from Abu Hamza al-Thimali'' changes to this ''According to Eqbal al-A'mal, the chain of authority was described as following: Sayyed Ibn Tawus received it from Harun ibn Musa ibn Ahmad Talla'ukbara who received it from Hassan bin Mahboob Srad who received it from Abu Hamza al-Thimali who received it from Imam al-Sajjad.'' Please, see below:
::::Imam al-Sajjad
::::Abu Hamza al-Thimali
::::Hassan bin Mahboob Srad
::::Harun ibn Musa ibn Ahmad Talla'ukbara
::::Sayyed Ibn Tawus
:Do you agree with me? Is it better to use ''receive'' as ''narrate''?
:2. You proposed three phrase for "scholars of biographical evaluation" and I choose one of them, but unfortunately it is an ambiguous. To clarifying the phrase, I give reference to Misplaced Pages article of ]. We read: "Biographical evaluation (Arabic: عِلْمُ الرِّجال, translit.: `Ilm al-Rijāl), literally meaning 'Knowledge of Men' but more commonly understood as the science of narration, refers to a discipline of Islamic religious studies within hadith terminology in which the narrators of hadith are evaluated. Its goal is to distinguish authentic and reliable hadiths from unreliable hadiths in establishing the credibility of the narrators, using both historic and religious knowledge.`Ilm ar-rijal is synonymous with what is commonly referred to as al-jarḥ wa al-taʻdīl (discrediting and accrediting) – the criticism and declared acceptance of hadith narrators."
:3. Thanks for your attention. It is about scholars at every times, not only past. Thanks for your patient.] (]) 06:45, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
::I think one problem is that I don't know anything about Muslim religion or scholarship. Thus, I don't understand the concepts. I think you need a different editor to help you. ] (]) 23:23, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
{{ping|P-123}}Can you complete copy editing of ] article and approve the context? Because, the article is nominated for .] (]) 09:33, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

:::Can someone give an update of what's the current situation. {{ping|Corinne}}? I've briefly skimmed through and for the two points "reach to" isn't in the article and the link biographical evaluation is given. &#x2011;]&nbsp;(]) 15:12, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
::::] I'm sorry, I hadn't realized that "reach to" had been removed and the link to bio. eval. had been given. The article looks good now. Thanks. ] (]) 18:39, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
::::::{{ping|Corinne}} and {{ping|Ugog Nizdast}} I have made a lot of major and minor changes to improve the clarity of the article. However, there is one things in Chain of authority section. Therefore, I wrote this section again and clarify the Chain of authority. If the article is good, please write your positive comments in . Thanks ] (]) 06:32, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

==DYK for People of Ditch==
{{tmbox
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==DYK for Ahmad ibn Muhammad Ardabili==
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== Requesting for copyedits ==

Saff V, thank you for your article creations about Islamic topics! I understand that your English is not very good, so many of your articles need to be copyedited. If you want people to help you copyedit articles, you may want to list them at ]. ]<sup>]</sup> 13:56, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

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==]==
No, , let alone acceptable. If you're claiming that this story appears in the Quran and is not merely a hadith you ''must'' provide a verse. (Ideally linked using {{nowrap|<code><nowiki><ref>{{cite quran|?|?}}</ref></nowiki></code>.)}} If you're giving up on looking, ''remove the entire claim'', not the {{tl|fact}} tag.&nbsp;—&nbsp;] 08:46, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

:Actually, having checked the two (non-Quranic) sources given for that claim, ''both'' of them mention it as a hadith and do ''not'' claim that the story was mentioned in the Quran. I'll just remove that idea, pending your finding the relevant verse.&nbsp;—&nbsp;] 09:10, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Kindly also notice that several of your original citations gave the wrong authors, which is pretty unhelpful. When using collections of scholarly articles, you should be careful to see whether Google Books is giving you the author of the whole book or the editor of a collection of articles. If it's the second one, you have to look at the table of contents to find the ''actual'' author.&nbsp;—&nbsp;] 08:48, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

==DYK nomination of Al-Yamani (Shiism)==
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==DYK for The Verse of Wilayah==
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* {{ping|Casliber}} I think that my DYK remained less than 12 hours in the main page. 02:30, 14 October 2015 (UTC) my DYK move to main page and must remain until 14:30, 14 October 2015. Can you explain that what's happen?] (]) 07:13, 14 October 2015 (UTC)
::Saff V. I am not sure. They are sometimes shorter if they change late. ] (] '''·''' ]) 12:34, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

:Congratulations on your third DYK! —] ]] 22:32, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
::] Thanks.] (]) 15:01, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

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==DYK for Al-Yamani (Shiism)==
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== DYK nomination of Al-Istibsar ==

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==DYK nomination of The supplication of Abu Hamzah al-Thumali==
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==DYK for Supplication of Abu Hamza al-Thumali==
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== A page you started (Lohoof) has been reviewed! ==

Thanks for creating ], Saff V.!

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<blockquote>The article needs some copy edits. ] will take care of it, if you make your request there.</blockquote>

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== Lohoof ==

Hello, Saff V. - In response to a request for a copy-edit at ], I have reviewed ] and made several edits. I did my best to put the sentences into colloquial, Standard English, but in several places I had to guess what was meant. Since I do not know the subject matter very well, I may have gotten some things wrong. I recommend that you read through the article and look at the changes I made to be sure that the article is factually correct and that the sentences convey the intended meaning. Let me know if you need further help with this article. ] (]) 00:34, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

::{{ping|Mhhossein}} Copy-edit done.] (]) 08:00, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
:::Good, thank you ] & ]. ] (]) 10:47, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

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==DYK for Du'a Arafah==
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==List of casualties in Husayn's army at the Battle of Karbala edit war==
] Hello, and ]. You appear to be engaged in an ] with one or more editors according to your reverts at ]. Although repeatedly ] another editor's contributions may seem necessary to protect your preferred version of a page, on Misplaced Pages this is usually seen as obstructing the ], and often creates animosity between editors. Instead of edit warring, please discuss the situation with the editor(s) involved and try to reach a ] on the ].

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::] You must add your reference in the talk page and then edit the article. Your source has POV and is not reliable source for battle of Karbala. for this reason, I reverted your edit but you reverted again. I think that you want to start edit war. Your information about battle of Karbala is incomplete. Please revert your edit until discusses and then edit the article.] (]) 08:55, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

== Hey Toddy1, You must selected keep vote ==
I have tried to keep the article in a decent state since December 2011. I have not tried to rewrite the article, merely to clean it up. I think was better than the one today (though it needed explaining). I put in the numbering, so that readers could see that the number of people allegedly killed was a lot more than the 72 mentioned by Tabari.
:::] The current style has not many different with old version. Please say you reason for old version.] (]) 09:15, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
::::The big problem of the current list is category 1.2, which has a lot of names in no obvious order. The December 2011 version had lots of small categories, which helped people find information.
::::'''Current breakdown of the list'''
::::1.1 Descendants of Banu Hashim
:::::1.1.1 Descendants of Ali ibn Abi Talib
::::::1.1.1.1 Sons of Ali ibn Abi Talib
::::::1.1.1.2 Sons of Hassan ibn Ali
::::::1.1.1.3 Sons of Husayn ibn Ali ibn Abi Talib
::::::1.1.1.4 Sons of Abbas ibn Ali
:::::1.1.2 Descendants of Ja'far ibn Abi Talib
:::::1.1.3 Sons of Aqeel ibn Abi Talib
::::1.2 Army of Husayn ibn Ali (these are not Banu Hashim)

::::'''December 2011 breakdown of the list'''
::::1 Descendants of Abu Talib
:::::1.1 Descendants of Ali ibn Abu Talib
:::::1.2 Descendants of Ali's brothers
::::2 Casualties from the Bani Asad clan
::::3 Casualties from the Banu Hamdan clan
::::4 Casualties from the Jahni
::::5 Ansari casualties
::::6 Bijli and Khas-ami
::::7 Kindi and Ghaffari
::::8 Kalbi
::::9 Azdi
::::10 Tai and Taymi
::::11 Abdi
::::12 Taghleebi
::::13 Jahani and Tameemi
::::14 Others
::::15 Miscellaneous deaths
::::16 Those who joined the Imam from the enemy army
::::One solution to the problem would be to reinstate categories for present section 1.2. Another solution would be to turn the whole list into a sortable Wikitable.--<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">] ]</span> 20:32, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

However, of late, I have had enough of the ] of POV-warriors who refuse to allow articles to have a neutral POV. So I commented, but did not say keep or delete.

If you were interested, you could make the list a lot better. The most obvious thing to do would be to say which sources list which people. If you look at the current citations, some of them are rubbish and do not support the information. The only really reliable source on the battle is Tabari. So why does the article not cite him for the names that he mentions? Another thing the article should be doing is saying how each man died, if mentioned in a reliable source like Tabari.
:::] Can you add Tabari?Add Tabari believed that 72 person was killed in the battle. It is very good source.] (]) 09:15, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

You might also ask why does the article on Husayn ibn Ali not mention criticism of him. For example: he was a racist, he did not understand politics, and he split his community.--<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">] ]</span> 09:05, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

Possible format for sortable Wikitable.--<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">] ]</span> 20:32, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
{| class="wikitable sortable"
|-valign="top"
!rowspan=2| Name
!rowspan=2| Grouping
!| Tabari
!| Kitab al-Irshad
!| AK Ahmed
!| GA Mirza
!rowspan=2| Comments
!rowspan=2| Source
|-valign="top"
!colspan=4| mentions this person
|-valign="top"
|| Andrew ibn Bill || Sons of Bill ibn Charles || Y || N || N || Y || a half-brother of Dave ibn Bill. Beheaded by Earl ibn Fred ||<ref name=Tabari-195/><ref name=Mirza-666/>
|-valign="top"
|| || || N || N || N || N || ||
|-valign="top"
|| || || N || N || N || N || ||
|-valign="top"
|| || || N || N || N || N || ||
|-valign="top"
|| || || N || N || N || N || ||
|-valign="top"
|| || || N || N || N || N || ||
|-valign="top"
|| || || N || N || N || N || ||
|-valign="top"
|| || || N || N || N || N || ||
|-valign="top"
|}
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