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==Usability and discoverability==

I would expect the main page of the encyclopedia to prominently feature both a table of contents and a search feature. This page has a lot of trivia, which is a nice secondary function, but no longer seems to serve its primary functions very well. It does have a search feature, but it's a small icon up at the top in a bar of icons, rather than being front and center and already open with a box to type in words (in the style of a search engine, like ).
==Question==
The 'general discussion' section has been blank for 2-3 days - either the MP has not managed to catch people's attention or the archive bot has been too zealous. Which? ] (]) 14:08, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
:The bot is supposed to leave a minimum of two threads on this page, but it doesn't appear to be happening (). The main page error report probably counts as one thread (even if empty), but I would still expect to see one thread remaining. Pinging {{ping|Σ}}, the bot's owner, to see if he can explain this. ] (]) 15:58, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
:Why do we need threads here at all? If there is nothing to discuss, why do we need to keep viewing stale discussions? --]] 16:01, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
::One reason is that it shows newbies where to post questions. When faced with a blank page they may feel they are in the wrong place. ] (]) 16:10, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
:::Could have added 'or some glitch' to my question.
The nature of the main page is that it generates an intermittent discussion on one component or another - so if there is 'persistent blankness' something is off-kilter. ] (]) 17:36, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
:I don't agree that persistent blankness indicates that something is wrong. Often there is nothing about the main page that needs comment. Many new user postings here are spam (quickly removed), or in the wrong place anyway (there's a big box that tells you where you want to go for most things that is often apparently invisible). Nevertheless I've upped the minimum threads from 2 to 3 on the basis that the "main page error reports" and "general discussion" level-1 headings both probably count as threads for the bot's purpose. ]] 17:40, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
::Jayron likes to remove threads he personally dislikes. Doesn't seem to care about discussion at all. ] (]) 00:50, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
:::That's an interesting accusation. Could you link to a diff of me removing a thread from this page? --]] 12:08, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
::::You mean like how you cleared out a thread recently after accusing people of MRAs because it was pointed out that the outrage at only one sex being represented was non-existent?] (]) 06:45, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
:::::I have no memory of this event. Could you include some diffs of me removing such a thread? --]] 16:35, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
::::::From Correctron's description, the closest thing I can find is this thread . Problem for Correctron is four fold. <p>One, the thread was closed by Jayron32, but not removed as "cleared out" would seem to imply. <p>Two, such closures ultimately only strongly discourage further discussion. It wasn't even a hatting, so the thread was still perfectly visible. If editors felt after reading the rationale there was still something relevant to discuss on T:MP, or the closure was otherwise unwarranted or improprer, they were free to reverse it, or just continue the discussion, as happened to a minor extent anyway . Such editors may find themselves sanctioned if they keep continuing discussions long past their prime, just as editors who inappropriately close discussions may find themselves, but that's their responsibility for not understanding community norms not the fault of the closure. <p>These lead to 3, namely that the discussion wasn't removed/cleared out until over 5 days later by the bot due to inactivity . Note that the discussion was also significantly longer than many T:MP discussions. <p>Four, and the biggest problem with the complaint here is that while there was some comments there that some people may find offensive, no one accused anyone of being a MRA. <p>] (]) 15:54, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

::Subjectively one accepts that 'the bots' will occasionally 'get ahead of themselves' with the discussions, and that most entries on the MP will excite no particular comment (but are likely to elicit traffic to the various pages in question) - but if the talk page is empty for longer than a day one wonders if there is a glitch or something. ] (]) 10:22, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
:A solution which was used in some printed technical manuals (and may still be for all I know) was to include the self-contradictory phrase "This page intentionally left blank" on pages which would otherwise have nothing on them. Can "There are no discussions at present" or similar be automatically displayed when this section would otherwise contain nothing, thus preventing the impression that Something is Wrong. ] (]) 12:13, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
::Why is this even a problem? The error reports sections often have nothing in them, but people seem to be able to figure them out when they are blank. Do people really have more difficulty figuring it out when the General Discussion section is empty? Isn't the purpose of the "edit source" links to show you where to click to add something? I see no reason to leave old discussions up when they are no longer active. If that leaves the section empty, so what? --] (]) 16:29, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
::For the record, MediaWiki also has an ]: ]. It displays ] so it could really be blanked if wanted. ] (]) 16:39, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
:::The point I was making is that it is 'somewhat unusual' for the MP talk page to be totally blank, especially for more than a day; and there #are# occasional glitches with pages - and there should be some entries which promote discussion (but not necessarily complaints). ] (]) 17:07, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

== Errors in the summary of the language section ==
When I enter the main page of English wikipedia, the Kurdish section(kurdî) seems like it isn't found, please can you solve it or tell me the reason?--] (]) 15:44, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
:Because, according to , it has c.20,000 articles, and the lists at the foot of the Main Page say that they only list Wikipedias with 50,000 articles+ --] (]) 15:55, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

==The Funding banner==
... is annoyingly large. ] (]) 16:52, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
:It is indeed. See ]. Create an account. Bear with the WMF until the New Year. Hit the little "X". ] if it really bothers you. <span style="font-family: sylfaen">]/]</span> 17:14, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

== Transcluding a TFA page into ERRORS? ==

Okay, there's a chance everyone will think I'm a tool for even asking, but I've exhausted every other option, with zero success. I asked around for help writing a bot to ping me when the TFA section at ERRORS is edited, and I argued the case at ] for watchable sections. I also asked for help at ], where the advice was given to break off the TFA section as a separate page and transclude it to <small>either WT:MAIN or</small> ERRORS, so that it can be watchlisted separately. That's what I'd like to do. I hesitate to ask; I'm concerned that people will misinterpret this as a request to distance TFA from other Main Page goings-on. Not true; I'd like a notice at ERRORS that anyone watchlisting is encouraged to also watchlist the transcluded TFA page. I've learned a lot from ERRORS, and I plan to keep on learning. All I'm saying is that it would be nice not to have to check all the ERRORS lines in my watchlist, all day long. - Dank (]) 22:37, 22 December 2015 (UTC)


It's a bit weird we visibly link to ], but the only link to ] (which is important enough it's linked to from every page on the site) is hidden behind the pancake menu icon in the upper left. We do have templates like ] that could be used directly on this page as a better gateway to actual articles, for those that are curious but don't have any particular query in mind or are looking for inspiration. ] (]) 20:26, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:Why not a separate sub-page for each section? <span style="font-family: sylfaen">]/]</span> 23:00, 22 December 2015 (UTC)


:Agree about the trivia, but remember opinions here come from the trivia writers. Last time I looked at portal usage statistics, it looks like a few people click to see what they are, and most of them don't click anything further. ] (]) 03:55, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
:I'm a little concerned about possible negative effects of this change. When I'm active one of the things I try to get around to doing is checking errors, but as I no longer use a watchlist, so I mainly use the transcluded version on main-page talk which I visit frequently; this often, I've found to my peril, lags behind errors itself, sometimes by hours, and so I fear if TfA errors were transcluded into main-page errors (and I assume additionally directly into main-page talk, not via a double transclusion?) the same would happen. ] <small>(])</small> 02:49, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
:I'll confirm the lag in the transcluded errors section. I don't use it. Instead, I habitually click "Error reports" in the toolbox to see the real errors, not the sometimes-obsolete version of the errors. ] (]) 06:17, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
::To clarify: clicking "Error reports" takes the reader to ] aka ] aka ERRORS. And yes, transclusions take a while to transclude anywhere on WP, so people who want to read the most updated version of transcluded material generally either read the transcluded page directly or perform a purge (a link that will do that, called "Purge the Main Page", is above, or you can just add "?action=purge" to a url). - Dank (]) 14:03, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
:::P.S. I didn't mean that anyone was unclear, I meant that some readers might not have understood some of the terms. HTH. - Dank (]) 17:43, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
::::A fair number of admins have WP:ERRORS on their watchlist - Dank isn't the only one who can fix errors in, or make improvements/alterations to, the TFA blurb when appropriate. Dank's careful stewardship of the blurbs before they hit the main page means that there don't seem to be many changes needed anyway. Creating an extra transcluded subpage purely in reality for Dank's benefit isn't something for which I see a reasonable need. ]] 08:33, 24 December 2015 (UTC)


:This appears to be an objection to the ], not the contents of ] itself. The default skins on desktop and mobile both have a large search box or icon right at the top of every page. The desktop skin also has a link to ] in the menu shown on every single page. If you don't like the way that requires opening the menu before that link is visible, I suggest you bring it up on an appropriate talk page for the skin (perhaps ]) or at the ]. ] ] 14:09, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
== non sequitur ==
::Yes, I'm objecting to the fact that the primary functions of the main page are hidden in a menu and in an icon rather than being directly on - if not the most prominent things on - the page.
On the main page for December 23, 2015, there was a blurb about James Battersby believing Hitler was Jesus "despite" Battersby's father having died on the Lusitania. The article on Battersby doesn't connect these two issues at all, correctly showing that the Lusitania went down in 1915. Unless I missed something actually in the article, none of the sources about Battersby quotes him as making any connection. This sort of attention grabbing misquote is what I expect of tabloids and doesn't help promote Misplaced Pages as a reliable source.
::Wouldn't changing the skin change ''all'' pages? That seems like the wrong answer, since it wouldn't make sense to put the Contents listing on every page, nor would it make sense to have an open search bar on every page. Unlike the main page, I would expect the primary means of navigation to be clicking on links to related articles, as opposed to browsing through topics. (Search is sort of intermediate on those pages, so an icon seems like a good compromise.) -- ] (]) 21:52, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
] (]) 11:42, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
:While I'd concur with the IP, too late to do anything about it at this point.--] (]) 12:36, 23 December 2015 (UTC) ::I see no reason why we can't have in the top box "Welcome to Misplaced Pages" a visually predominant search bar. Doesn't touch the skin. ] (]) 22:31, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
:::I have whipped up a search box at ]. How does that look? -- ] (]) 01:58, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
::::I like your idea but your design makes the page header (including the recently added editor count) take up 30% of content height on my display, with about 50% of that header wasted grey emptiness. Some smarter (responsive) design will be needed. ] (]) 10:07, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::How about moving the "Other areas of Misplaced Pages" into that box to fill some of that space?--] (]) (]) 14:32, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::Is that list considered more or less important than the featured content and news sections? -- ] (]) 16:19, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::What is the size of your display? Desktop or mobile? -- ] (]) 16:18, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::@Beland: large tablet, laptop and phone; it's the first which was problematic, but that's not the point. Good design will accommodate varying display sizes and orientation so as to maximise usage of space and readability. ] (]) 19:28, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
:Can you describe what you would expect in a table of contents for the site? I'm struggling to see how it would work. --] (]) (]) 14:34, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
::Above, I suggested using ]. -- ] (]) 16:16, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
::Probably similar to the that had the list of major portals at the top? That's kind of a table of contents. I think as close as you could get, anyway. ] (]) 20:00, 15 January 2025 (UTC)


== ] == == Misplaced Pages Birthday ==


Since it is Misplaced Pages's birthday, shouldn't we add that to the "On this day" page? ] (]) 19:45, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
I know this will get shot down and will generate little to any concurrence with my view, but I find it extremely illogical putting up a note on the main page saying that today (Dec. 23) is Festivus, when next to nobody, I dare imagine (anyone got any hard statistics?), celebrates or observes this day, especially since its source is from an American sitcom that's been off the air for almost two decades. Anyway. Just my two cents. (] (]) 16:47, 23 December 2015 (UTC))
:It's a bit late to suggest that, don't you think? It's now the 16th of January in some countries. ] (]) 19:47, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
:OTD frequently includes non-serious observances, such as ], ], and yes, even Festivus. However, it should be noted that Festivus poles have been installed in a few state capitols in the US, so it's not completely fictional. <span style="font-family:Verdana; ">—''']''' <small>{]}</small></span> 17:29, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
::Not fictional yes, but limited only to select regions of the U.S. in terms of its outreach.--] (]) 17:48, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
:::I think that's my main "beef" as it were - the extremely limited outreach of this "festival." Who outside of the US and/or Seinfeld viewers would even be cognizant of this event? i.e. Relevance!! ] (]) 02:09, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
::::I'll see your "Festivus" and I'll raise you "Deep coal mining ceases in the United Kingdom with the closure of Kellingley Colliery." I don't care about this supposedly newsworthy item, but it's inoffensive and I'm not telling the main page to remove it just because it doesn't interest me. ] (]) 04:38, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
:I and most of my friends are aware of today's holiday and we jokingly celebrate it. This morning's radio news mentioned that Festivus is one of several holidays being celebrated by many in the US this week. I believe Festivus is relevant to more people than "next to nobody." ] (]) 21:27, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

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Usability and discoverability

I would expect the main page of the encyclopedia to prominently feature both a table of contents and a search feature. This page has a lot of trivia, which is a nice secondary function, but no longer seems to serve its primary functions very well. It does have a search feature, but it's a small icon up at the top in a bar of icons, rather than being front and center and already open with a box to type in words (in the style of a search engine, like ).

It's a bit weird we visibly link to Misplaced Pages:Contents/Portals, but the only link to Misplaced Pages:Contents (which is important enough it's linked to from every page on the site) is hidden behind the pancake menu icon in the upper left. We do have templates like Misplaced Pages:Contents/TOC navbar that could be used directly on this page as a better gateway to actual articles, for those that are curious but don't have any particular query in mind or are looking for inspiration. Beland (talk) 20:26, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Agree about the trivia, but remember opinions here come from the trivia writers. Last time I looked at portal usage statistics, it looks like a few people click to see what they are, and most of them don't click anything further. Art LaPella (talk) 03:55, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
This appears to be an objection to the WP:SKIN, not the contents of Main Page itself. The default skins on desktop and mobile both have a large search box or icon right at the top of every page. The desktop skin also has a link to Misplaced Pages:Contents in the menu shown on every single page. If you don't like the way that requires opening the menu before that link is visible, I suggest you bring it up on an appropriate talk page for the skin (perhaps Misplaced Pages talk:Vector 2022) or at the village pump. Modest Genius 14:09, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
Yes, I'm objecting to the fact that the primary functions of the main page are hidden in a menu and in an icon rather than being directly on - if not the most prominent things on - the page.
Wouldn't changing the skin change all pages? That seems like the wrong answer, since it wouldn't make sense to put the Contents listing on every page, nor would it make sense to have an open search bar on every page. Unlike the main page, I would expect the primary means of navigation to be clicking on links to related articles, as opposed to browsing through topics. (Search is sort of intermediate on those pages, so an icon seems like a good compromise.) -- Beland (talk) 21:52, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
I see no reason why we can't have in the top box "Welcome to Misplaced Pages" a visually predominant search bar. Doesn't touch the skin. Masem (t) 22:31, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
I have whipped up a search box at Misplaced Pages:Main Page/sandbox. How does that look? -- Beland (talk) 01:58, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
I like your idea but your design makes the page header (including the recently added editor count) take up 30% of content height on my display, with about 50% of that header wasted grey emptiness. Some smarter (responsive) design will be needed. Bazza 7 (talk) 10:07, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
How about moving the "Other areas of Misplaced Pages" into that box to fill some of that space?--User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 14:32, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
Is that list considered more or less important than the featured content and news sections? -- Beland (talk) 16:19, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
What is the size of your display? Desktop or mobile? -- Beland (talk) 16:18, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
@Beland: large tablet, laptop and phone; it's the first which was problematic, but that's not the point. Good design will accommodate varying display sizes and orientation so as to maximise usage of space and readability. Bazza 7 (talk) 19:28, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
Can you describe what you would expect in a table of contents for the site? I'm struggling to see how it would work. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 14:34, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
Above, I suggested using Misplaced Pages:Contents/TOC navbar. -- Beland (talk) 16:16, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
Probably similar to the old layout that had the list of major portals at the top? That's kind of a table of contents. I think as close as you could get, anyway. ApLundell (talk) 20:00, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages Birthday

Since it is Misplaced Pages's birthday, shouldn't we add that to the "On this day" page? SuperJames888 (talk) 19:45, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

It's a bit late to suggest that, don't you think? It's now the 16th of January in some countries. MadGuy7023 (talk) 19:47, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
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