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Revision as of 22:19, 27 December 2015 view sourceGeneral Ization (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, IP block exemptions, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers165,786 edits Please clarify phab:T122471← Previous edit Latest revision as of 20:00, 15 January 2025 view source ApLundell (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers9,458 edits Usability and discoverability 
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==Usability and discoverability==

I would expect the main page of the encyclopedia to prominently feature both a table of contents and a search feature. This page has a lot of trivia, which is a nice secondary function, but no longer seems to serve its primary functions very well. It does have a search feature, but it's a small icon up at the top in a bar of icons, rather than being front and center and already open with a box to type in words (in the style of a search engine, like ).
== Transcluding a TFA page into ERRORS? ==

Okay, there's a chance everyone will think I'm a tool for even asking, but I've exhausted every other option, with zero success. I asked around for help writing a bot to ping me when the TFA section at ERRORS is edited, and I argued the case at ] for watchable sections. I also asked for help at ], where the advice was given to break off the TFA section as a separate page and transclude it to <small>either WT:MAIN or</small> ERRORS, so that it can be watchlisted separately. That's what I'd like to do. I hesitate to ask; I'm concerned that people will misinterpret this as a request to distance TFA from other Main Page goings-on. Not true; I'd like a notice at ERRORS that anyone watchlisting is encouraged to also watchlist the transcluded TFA page. I've learned a lot from ERRORS, and I plan to keep on learning. All I'm saying is that it would be nice not to have to check all the ERRORS lines in my watchlist, all day long. - Dank (]) 22:37, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

:Why not a separate sub-page for each section? <span style="font-family: sylfaen">]/]</span> 23:00, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

:I'm a little concerned about possible negative effects of this change. When I'm active one of the things I try to get around to doing is checking errors, but as I no longer use a watchlist, so I mainly use the transcluded version on main-page talk which I visit frequently; this often, I've found to my peril, lags behind errors itself, sometimes by hours, and so I fear if TfA errors were transcluded into main-page errors (and I assume additionally directly into main-page talk, not via a double transclusion?) the same would happen. ] <small>(])</small> 02:49, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
:I'll confirm the lag in the transcluded errors section. I don't use it. Instead, I habitually click "Error reports" in the toolbox to see the real errors, not the sometimes-obsolete version of the errors. ] (]) 06:17, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
::To clarify: clicking "Error reports" takes the reader to ] aka ] aka ERRORS. And yes, transclusions take a while to transclude anywhere on WP, so people who want to read the most updated version of transcluded material generally either read the transcluded page directly or perform a purge (a link that will do that, called "Purge the Main Page", is above, or you can just add "?action=purge" to a url). - Dank (]) 14:03, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
:::P.S. I didn't mean that anyone was unclear, I meant that some readers might not have understood some of the terms. HTH. - Dank (]) 17:43, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
::::A fair number of admins have WP:ERRORS on their watchlist - Dank isn't the only one who can fix errors in, or make improvements/alterations to, the TFA blurb when appropriate. Dank's careful stewardship of the blurbs before they hit the main page means that there don't seem to be many changes needed anyway. Creating an extra transcluded subpage purely in reality for Dank's benefit isn't something for which I see a reasonable need. ]] 08:33, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
:::::Thanks ... I think :/ Btw, this morning an ERROR report was moved into the TFA section without editing the TFA section directly. These days, I'm skimming my watchlist looking for "Errors in the summary of today's or tomorrow's featured article", which stands out because it's so long. Please make at least one edit directly to the TFA section (or ping me) if there's something I need to deal with. Thanks. - Dank (]) 17:00, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

== non sequitur ==
On the main page for December 23, 2015, there was a blurb about James Battersby believing Hitler was Jesus "despite" Battersby's father having died on the Lusitania. The article on Battersby doesn't connect these two issues at all, correctly showing that the Lusitania went down in 1915. Unless I missed something actually in the article, none of the sources about Battersby quotes him as making any connection. This sort of attention grabbing misquote is what I expect of tabloids and doesn't help promote Misplaced Pages as a reliable source.
] (]) 11:42, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
:While I'd concur with the IP, too late to do anything about it at this point.--] (]) 12:36, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

== ] ==

I know this will get shot down and will generate little to any concurrence with my view, but I find it extremely illogical putting up a note on the main page saying that today (Dec. 23) is Festivus, when next to nobody, I dare imagine (anyone got any hard statistics?), celebrates or observes this day, especially since its source is from an American sitcom that's been off the air for almost two decades. Anyway. Just my two cents. (] (]) 16:47, 23 December 2015 (UTC))
:OTD frequently includes non-serious observances, such as ], ], and yes, even Festivus. However, it should be noted that Festivus poles have been installed in a few state capitols in the US, so it's not completely fictional. <span style="font-family:Verdana; ">—''']''' <small>{]}</small></span> 17:29, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
::Not fictional yes, but limited only to select regions of the U.S. in terms of its outreach.--] (]) 17:48, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
:::I think that's my main "beef" as it were - the extremely limited outreach of this "festival." Who outside of the US and/or Seinfeld viewers would even be cognizant of this event? i.e. Relevance!! ] (]) 02:09, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
::::I'll see your "Festivus" and I'll raise you "Deep coal mining ceases in the United Kingdom with the closure of Kellingley Colliery." I don't care about this supposedly newsworthy item, but it's inoffensive and I'm not telling the main page to remove it just because it doesn't interest me. ] (]) 04:38, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
:::::Coal mining impacts everybody and contributes to air pollution and global warming. Festivus does not have that same level of global impact. Still, this is now a moot point since the item fell off the front page. Festivus is for the rest of us, I suppose.--] (]) 17:01, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
:I and most of my friends are aware of today's holiday and we jokingly celebrate it. This morning's radio news mentioned that Festivus is one of several holidays being celebrated by many in the US this week. I believe Festivus is relevant to more people than "next to nobody." ] (]) 21:27, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
::One function of the Main Page #is# to draw people's attention to things they would not otherwise be aware of. ] (]) 10:50, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

== Edit reason for deleted articles...? ==
Didn't there used to be a edit reason plainly listed after a deleted page was gone? Now there's nothing. Why was this change implemented?
:Do you have an example? ] (]) 12:19, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
::For anonymous (not logged in) users, the deletion log is only shown for articles '''recently''' deleted if they are visited. (The log can be displayed by following the link where it says "If the page has been deleted, check the deletion log". For logged in editors, the deletion log is always shown. — ] <sup>]</sup> 12:44, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
:::This page is for discussing the content and layout of the Main Page; general questions should be asked at the ]. ] (]) 12:47, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

== Christmas 2015 ==

How dare Misplaced Pages put such ] on the front page! Have you no shame? Witchcraft is not needed in such a joyous occasion! I say we boycott this website! ] 00:17, 25 December 2015 (UTC)
*]. Well, I'm spending this ] with my son ], so I don't have the time to get angry right now.&nbsp;—&nbsp;] (]) 00:57, 25 December 2015 (UTC)
*Oh, good, another snarky administrator.--<span style="background:#C2C2C2">]]] </span> 03:30, 25 December 2015 (UTC)
*I didn't read the original story, but you're worrying about a old TV sitcom whose real message is about how one should treat their fellow man rather than being a recruiting tool for witchcraft? Someone needs to take their meds and get a grip on reality! What about the classic Twilight Zone episode with Art Carney as an alcoholic department store Santa, wishing only that people treat each other nicer and wishing for good things for the poor? If there's not magic in that, I don't know where it is. Sometimes things happen that seem like magic, like realizing that one is taking things too seriously. Love God, Love Your Neighbor As Yourself; the rest is just details of implementation. And your freedom to swing your fist stops at your neighbor's nose. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! ] (]) 20:53, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

== What is this? ==


It's a bit weird we visibly link to ], but the only link to ] (which is important enough it's linked to from every page on the site) is hidden behind the pancake menu icon in the upper left. We do have templates like ] that could be used directly on this page as a better gateway to actual articles, for those that are curious but don't have any particular query in mind or are looking for inspiration. ] (]) 20:26, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
Looks like an error. ]<sup>]</sup> 09:59, 26 December 2015 (UTC)
: {{ping|SSTflyer}} Was just about to bring that up here. I also left a message on Shirt58's talk page. ] ] 10:03, 26 December 2015 (UTC)
:I just spotted that myself and came here to report it. ]? ] (]) 10:03, 26 December 2015 (UTC)
:: by Materialscientist. {{Resolved|] (]) 17:30, 26 December 2015 (UTC)}}


:Agree about the trivia, but remember opinions here come from the trivia writers. Last time I looked at portal usage statistics, it looks like a few people click to see what they are, and most of them don't click anything further. ] (]) 03:55, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
== First recorded performance of King Lear ==


:This appears to be an objection to the ], not the contents of ] itself. The default skins on desktop and mobile both have a large search box or icon right at the top of every page. The desktop skin also has a link to ] in the menu shown on every single page. If you don't like the way that requires opening the menu before that link is visible, I suggest you bring it up on an appropriate talk page for the skin (perhaps ]) or at the ]. ] ] 14:09, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
"The first recorded performance of the play King Lear" sounds like it was recorded with a tape recorder. It should be worded "The first known performance of the play King Lear". ] (]) 23:18, 26 December 2015 (UTC)
::Yes, I'm objecting to the fact that the primary functions of the main page are hidden in a menu and in an icon rather than being directly on - if not the most prominent things on - the page.
:It's no longer on the Main Page. But by tomorrow or so, ] will be unprotected, and can be fixed or debated for December 26 of future years (although different events are selected for different years). ] (]) 04:23, 27 December 2015 (UTC)
::Wouldn't changing the skin change ''all'' pages? That seems like the wrong answer, since it wouldn't make sense to put the Contents listing on every page, nor would it make sense to have an open search bar on every page. Unlike the main page, I would expect the primary means of navigation to be clicking on links to related articles, as opposed to browsing through topics. (Search is sort of intermediate on those pages, so an icon seems like a good compromise.) -- ] (]) 21:52, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
::I see no reason why we can't have in the top box "Welcome to Misplaced Pages" a visually predominant search bar. Doesn't touch the skin. ] (]) 22:31, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
:::I have whipped up a search box at ]. How does that look? -- ] (]) 01:58, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
::::I like your idea but your design makes the page header (including the recently added editor count) take up 30% of content height on my display, with about 50% of that header wasted grey emptiness. Some smarter (responsive) design will be needed. ] (]) 10:07, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::How about moving the "Other areas of Misplaced Pages" into that box to fill some of that space?--] (]) (]) 14:32, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::Is that list considered more or less important than the featured content and news sections? -- ] (]) 16:19, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::What is the size of your display? Desktop or mobile? -- ] (]) 16:18, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::@Beland: large tablet, laptop and phone; it's the first which was problematic, but that's not the point. Good design will accommodate varying display sizes and orientation so as to maximise usage of space and readability. ] (]) 19:28, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
:Can you describe what you would expect in a table of contents for the site? I'm struggling to see how it would work. --] (]) (]) 14:34, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
::Above, I suggested using ]. -- ] (]) 16:16, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
::Probably similar to the that had the list of major portals at the top? That's kind of a table of contents. I think as close as you could get, anyway. ] (]) 20:00, 15 January 2025 (UTC)


== Misplaced Pages Birthday ==
== Please clarify ] ==


Thanks! --] (]) 21:47, 27 December 2015 (UTC) Since it is Misplaced Pages's birthday, shouldn't we add that to the "On this day" page? ] (]) 19:45, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
:It's a bit late to suggest that, don't you think? It's now the 16th of January in some countries. ] (]) 19:47, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
:{{ping|AKlapper (WMF)}} It seems pretty off-topic. Mobile displays a special main page which doesn't even have an edit option in my admin account. Did you mean to post this elsewhere or are you arbitrarily posting it here in hope of finding somebody who can reproduce the problem or guess what is going on? For the record, I don't have a mobile device and cannot reproduce it at https://en.m.wikipedia.org in a desktop browser. ] (]) 22:12, 27 December 2015 (UTC)
::FWIW, I am unable to duplicate using Misplaced Pages for Android 2.1.136-r-2015-12-09. <span style="font-family: Gill Sans MT, Arial, Helvetica; font-weight:140;">]</span> <sup>''] ''</sup> 22:19, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

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Should read "estimated to be fewer than 50 birds" not "estimated to be less than 50 birds". Spicemix (talk) 20:03, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

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General discussion

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Usability and discoverability

I would expect the main page of the encyclopedia to prominently feature both a table of contents and a search feature. This page has a lot of trivia, which is a nice secondary function, but no longer seems to serve its primary functions very well. It does have a search feature, but it's a small icon up at the top in a bar of icons, rather than being front and center and already open with a box to type in words (in the style of a search engine, like ).

It's a bit weird we visibly link to Misplaced Pages:Contents/Portals, but the only link to Misplaced Pages:Contents (which is important enough it's linked to from every page on the site) is hidden behind the pancake menu icon in the upper left. We do have templates like Misplaced Pages:Contents/TOC navbar that could be used directly on this page as a better gateway to actual articles, for those that are curious but don't have any particular query in mind or are looking for inspiration. Beland (talk) 20:26, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Agree about the trivia, but remember opinions here come from the trivia writers. Last time I looked at portal usage statistics, it looks like a few people click to see what they are, and most of them don't click anything further. Art LaPella (talk) 03:55, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
This appears to be an objection to the WP:SKIN, not the contents of Main Page itself. The default skins on desktop and mobile both have a large search box or icon right at the top of every page. The desktop skin also has a link to Misplaced Pages:Contents in the menu shown on every single page. If you don't like the way that requires opening the menu before that link is visible, I suggest you bring it up on an appropriate talk page for the skin (perhaps Misplaced Pages talk:Vector 2022) or at the village pump. Modest Genius 14:09, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
Yes, I'm objecting to the fact that the primary functions of the main page are hidden in a menu and in an icon rather than being directly on - if not the most prominent things on - the page.
Wouldn't changing the skin change all pages? That seems like the wrong answer, since it wouldn't make sense to put the Contents listing on every page, nor would it make sense to have an open search bar on every page. Unlike the main page, I would expect the primary means of navigation to be clicking on links to related articles, as opposed to browsing through topics. (Search is sort of intermediate on those pages, so an icon seems like a good compromise.) -- Beland (talk) 21:52, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
I see no reason why we can't have in the top box "Welcome to Misplaced Pages" a visually predominant search bar. Doesn't touch the skin. Masem (t) 22:31, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
I have whipped up a search box at Misplaced Pages:Main Page/sandbox. How does that look? -- Beland (talk) 01:58, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
I like your idea but your design makes the page header (including the recently added editor count) take up 30% of content height on my display, with about 50% of that header wasted grey emptiness. Some smarter (responsive) design will be needed. Bazza 7 (talk) 10:07, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
How about moving the "Other areas of Misplaced Pages" into that box to fill some of that space?--User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 14:32, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
Is that list considered more or less important than the featured content and news sections? -- Beland (talk) 16:19, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
What is the size of your display? Desktop or mobile? -- Beland (talk) 16:18, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
@Beland: large tablet, laptop and phone; it's the first which was problematic, but that's not the point. Good design will accommodate varying display sizes and orientation so as to maximise usage of space and readability. Bazza 7 (talk) 19:28, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
Can you describe what you would expect in a table of contents for the site? I'm struggling to see how it would work. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 14:34, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
Above, I suggested using Misplaced Pages:Contents/TOC navbar. -- Beland (talk) 16:16, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
Probably similar to the old layout that had the list of major portals at the top? That's kind of a table of contents. I think as close as you could get, anyway. ApLundell (talk) 20:00, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages Birthday

Since it is Misplaced Pages's birthday, shouldn't we add that to the "On this day" page? SuperJames888 (talk) 19:45, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

It's a bit late to suggest that, don't you think? It's now the 16th of January in some countries. MadGuy7023 (talk) 19:47, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
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