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Revision as of 14:29, 20 August 2006 editJpgordon (talk | contribs)Checkusers, Administrators82,320 editsm Reverted edits by 69.196.164.190 (talk) to last version by Jpgordon← Previous edit Latest revision as of 06:56, 8 August 2022 edit undoBD2412bot (talk | contribs)Bots724,684 editsm →top: IP talk page template fix., replaced: {{OW}} → {{Blanked IP talk}}Tag: AWB 
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{{user az}} {{Blanked IP talk}}







Hi, I think we have met. Do you have any connections to {{user|69.196.139.250}}? Your IPs are very similar... &mdash;<span style="font-family:Palatino Linotype">]</span> 01:03, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::No I am sorry I don't; although I must say he is a lively fellow from his talk page. '''IPs mean nothing and are always changing.''' I like the Azari articles too? Are you Middle Eastern? Silly me I already know the answer. ]

:::No, I am not Middle Eastern. I'd like to visit the region however. :) &mdash;<span style="font-family:Palatino Linotype">]</span> 01:40, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::::Well you are doing an excellent job writting about them. Tell me what in your view causes edit wars?

:::::When someone makes a controversial or POV edit&mdash;that's probably the main reason. Another is the fact that some people chose to keep on reverting instead of using the talk page. You might want to have a look at ]. &mdash;<span style="font-family:Palatino Linotype">]</span> 01:48, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Sorry you gave a description/causes, not the reasons. What are the motivations for controversal edits? ]

:::::::When people want to ] their own point of view into an article, I guess. But it's not only that, it can also be over ]! That's one of my favorite pages. :p &mdash;<span style="font-family:Palatino Linotype">]</span> 02:19, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::::::Me-thinks you might be spending to much time on this thing, Khoikhoi. Do not sell your social life for cyber-space! ]

:::::::::::"Young father". ;) &mdash;<span style="font-family:Palatino Linotype">]</span> 17:01, 16 June 2006 (UTC)


:::::::::::Little Father....like in Greek '''aki''' or '''ak''' are used to reduce something. If I wanted to call you a pet name in Greek I would say Khoikhoiaki and in Persian or similar Iranic tongues it would be Khoikhoiak. In fact the name of Mordechi, the figure form the Old Testament along with Esther, mean like Man is is a bastardization of Mardak, which means little man or simply a single man. ]

::::::::::::Thanks for the info–very interesting 69.196.164.190aki! &mdash;<span style="font-family:Palatino Linotype">]</span> 05:14, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

== good point ==

good point in the azerbaijani people article. Lets make it more accurate. --] 09:08, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

== What? ==

I don't understand what your concern is. My friend took it, he would know whether they were Azeri or not. How is it POV? &mdash;<span style="font-family:Palatino Linotype">]</span> 05:36, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

My concern is that it is being used for political POV and to spread anti-Armenian feelings. The next thing we want is more tension between the two sides. Both sides must put aside their little differeances and recognize and respect their greater similiarities. This is not a political forum this is an encycolpidia. ]

== Russia ==

Thanks for your edit to Russia, but Norway has a land border with russia, nto a sea one ] 01:47, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

I ment to place it with land borders with Russia. Sweden was mssing from the neighbours that are near through water borders. I don't remembers eeing Norway. Anyways, it was a mistake on my part to put it with the sea borders; I meant land borders. I guess it was already there and I overlooked it. ]

== Username ==

Hello Azari fellow editor, why don't you create a username? It's easier to identify you and is more respectable in Wiki community, sometimes ip addresses get confusing. Btw, the cafeteria in the office building I work in is ran by Azaris from Iran, very friendly and kind people.--] 00:10, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

::I was going to make a user name, but after some of the insulting comments I have recieved due to my anon identy, I have decided to keep my IP number, with pride. I am offened by ] degrading remarks. He gives the impression that I have only degraded Misplaced Pages, when I have strived to work for accurate articles. Have I don anything on the NK talk page? I have never been uncivil, in fact GM has constantly been uncivil to me or tried to have me blocked or black listed and I have tried to engage him in the most civil manner. BTW; I am a human being first, an Iranian them, and a Azari and Caucasian after. Thank you for writting to me; I really appreciate it. Anons don't get to must respect, and to be frank I can understand why from all the sockpoppets and Turkish propgandists. ]

:::you should get a username. I support you and i think you are doing a great job. also, you should create a user page as well so we can know more about you, i just found out you were an azari a few minutes ago. :)] 20:25, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I am an Iranian first, and proud of all the diverse peoples who make up the colourful carpet which is Iran, the Middele East, the former USSR, and the world. ]

:exactly, i am also iranian first. ethnicities dont matter to me at all, and my family is a mix of everyone (azari's, kurds, arabs, persians), but unfotunately, in the world that we live in, some poeple like creating divisions between people of different group, but i guess the world cant be perfect. anyway,, you should really get a user name.] 01:12, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Can you ask an Admin to look at the situation I am in. I was blocked for adding verification to the DISCUSSION PAGE; this editor just looked for a reason to block me. This is what I posted...
==Index of Illegal Weapons Used Illegally by Israel against civilians in Lebanon==

Index of Illegal Weapons in Lebanon based on the research and work of Sarah Meyer ]

'''The Geneva Conventions

'''Protocol I, Article 85, Section 3 of the Geneva Convention: "An indiscriminate attack affecting the civilian population or civilian objects and resulting in excessive loss of life, injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects is a grave breach of the Geneva Conventions."


===Cluster Bombs, DU Bunker Busters and Phosphorus Bombs===

* Amnesty International: http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/document.do?id=ENGMDE150702006

* Relief Web: http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/RWB.NSF/db900SID/EKOI-6RY3TR?OpenDocument
''According to several witness accounts, cluster bombs may have been used by the Israeli forces over the last few days in south Lebanon, particularly in the southern suburbs of Beirut.The Cluster Munition Coalition (CMC) reports that the Israeli government has announced that it is reserving the right to use cluster bombs in its current intervention in Lebanon.'' '''Handicap International is concerned about the possible use of landmines and cluster bombs in Lebanon.'''

* International Red Cross: http://www.uruknet.info/?s1=1&p=24988&s2=25

* Human Rights Watch: http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2006/07/24/isrlpa13798.htm
'''Israeli's targeting civilians with cluster bombs.''' ''Cluster munitions are unacceptably inaccurate and unreliable weapons when used around civilians. They should never be used in populated areas.''

* Human Rights, Electronic Intifida: http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article4958.shtml


* Kurt Nimmo: http://www.uruknet.info/?s1=1&p=24842&s2=21
* Israel's Use of Chemical Weapons: http://www.vtjp.org/report/overview1.htm
''Excellent short precis of illicit weapons. “Israel has plenty of other weapons, gratis the United States and its own burgeoning weapons program, but it appears it prefers to augment its arsenal with chemical weapons.” Israelis adopt poison gas ‘fashion.’ See Nimmo’s referenced url: Overview: Israel’s use of Chemical Weapons.

* As-Safir Newspaper, Lebanon (Pictures of Strange Burns): http://www.uruknet.info/?s1=55&p=24885&s2=21

* W. Madsen Report & Centre for Research on Globalization : http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20060723&articleId=2800
W. Madsen Report / GlobalResearch.ca. “U.S. military intelligence sources have told WMR that the artillery shell shown below being used by an Israel Defense Force member in Lebanon, is a type of dual and multi-use weapon the neocons falsely accused Saddam Hussein of possessing. Although the canister artillery shell is marketed as an anti-land mine fuel-air bomb, its payload can also include the chemicals used in thermobaric bombs, white phosphorous weapons, and chemical weapons.” Photos. Chemical Weapons used against Lebanese Civilians.

* Al-Hayat: http://english.daralhayat.com/opinion/OPED/07-2006/Article-20060726-aa79e8cc-c0a8-10ed-01ce-4de84089082b/story.html
Lebanon's Children and Israeli Phosphorous Bombs

* Professor M. Chossudovsky, Centre for Research on Globalization: http://www.uruknet.info/?s1=1&p=24922&s2=23
A look at Israeli war crimes and illegal weapons use on civilians with no connection to Hezbollah

* Robert Fisk: http://www.counterpunch.org/fisk07292006.html
Robert Frisk is one of the most respected journalists in Europe and the world.
'''Shredded by Cluster Bombs: Bush and Blair: "Keep It Up!"'''

* Pulse: http://www.pulsetc.com/article.php?sid=2615
Israel is using phosphorous bombs and cluster bombs against civilians. Letter from retired U.S. Senator on the invasion of Lebanon that condemns the crimes of Israel and acknowledges the use of illegal weaponry

* Yahoo News: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060727/hl_afp/mideastconflictgaza_060727170554&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;printer=1;_ylt=A9FJqZZn8spEwJwAYAeKOrgF;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MXN1bHE0BHNlYwN0bWE
'''Mysterious wounds from Israeli shells'''

* Al Jazeera: http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=11762
'''Israel uses cluster bombs in Israel.'''

* Reuters/ Media Channel: http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-07-27T085451Z_01_L27557477_RTRUKOC_0_US-MIDEAST-LEBANON-BELGIUM.xml&WTmodLoc=
'''Belgian couple to accuse Israel of war crimes

* Inter Press News Service Agency:http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=34132
'''BEIRUT, Jul 28 (IPS) - The Israeli military is using illegal weapons against civilians in southern Lebanon, according to several reports.'''

* The Age (Australia): http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/doctors-suspect-chemical-weapons/2006/07/27/1153816320620.html
''reports from doctors that Israel has used weapons in its bombardment of southern Lebanon that have caused wounds they have never seen before. Doctors suspect chemical weapons.''



WAR CRIME

The Geneva Conventions

GENEVA CONVENTION I
(Protection for sick and wounded combatants on land)

Article 19: Fixed establishments and mobile medical units of the Medical Service may in no circumstances be attacked.

Article 24: Medical personnel exclusively engaged in the search for, or the collection, transport or treatment of the wounded or sick, or in the prevention of disease, staff exclusively engaged in the administration of medical units and establishments, as well as chaplains attached to the armed forces, shall be respected and protected in all circumstances.

* Bella Ciao: http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=12869
'''Israel using Depleted Uranium in Lebanon - Melbourne Stop the War Hiroshima Day media statement



=== Videos Demonstrating the Roots of the Issue & Israeli Breaches of Law and Peace ===

'''A video Israel does not want you to see'''
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tW1-_JmXQt0

'''British MP talking about the Roots of the Conflict'''
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQFrBrmaQBY&mode=related&search=

'''The Roots of the Problem'''
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVBIzu4YvnE

'''Israel attacking Red Cross'''
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7wroSYRXJo


]

==Talk back==
Re: This might also be a page you would want to take a look at since it overlaps with your interests. It is in dire need of NPOV editing. Once again thank you for raising your concerns.

Dear Mr/Mrs 69.196.164.190, thanks for your kind reminds, I don't really know much about Azerbaijani literature and I try not to post anything on the subject I am not familiar with. I am more interested in finding the discrepancies and inconsistencies.

PS: I am coming to conclusion that there are some people with vested interest who are taking ownership of Wiki articles and if that is true Wiki will go down like a stone if this is not stopped.
'''I am already losing interest and confidence in Wiki!'''
] 16:55, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

*There is no way you can civilly engage with someone who has been paid to do something; it is a job he has been paid to do and he will keep doing it while he is paid for it. When you provide proof for something and some people still stick to their stories and revert the page you start thinking if the whole thing is worth the time, or maybe your time is better spent disclosing what is happening on Wiki and discredit it and debunk those people. After all people are generally intelligent enough to decide for themselves when they see the proofs. Let’s start thinking about a good way of debunking this sham. ] 18:00, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

*See my reply to your post on my talk page. Cheers, ] 14:06, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

== er? ==

That diff you gave was a comment by you. You'll have to show him saying something about your countrymen. --] 06:08, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

:I don't know what to tell you. If you think he is truly insulting you, then go to ] or ], but I'm not going to block him based on this. --] 06:26, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

::Thanks for listening and thanks for your response. I will do that no, I am sorry I shouldn't have bothered you and it was wroong of me, but this is ongoing behaviour and I am really starting to loose my cool with this type of behaviour. ]
==arguing on wikipedia==
I will tell you this dude, arguing with some ranting morons here will only kill your precious time, just revert and revert, if they can not listen to reason, until one of you gets blocked...

== Checking In ==

Hey how are you? You havent been active for a week now, just checking in to make sure everythings ok. ] 16:53, 25 July 2006 (UTC)


::I am fine, but the people are not...and it will only get worse. The attack on Lebanon is in prepration for attacks on Iran. ]

:::I was just wondering since you werent very active anymore. I really hope they dont attack iran.] 00:31, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You want to know the truth lok at this...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/

http://uruknet.info/?p=-6&l=e

http://angryarab.blogspot.com/

http://www.countercurrents.org/index.htm

http://the-world-from-an-ants-view.blogspot.com/

These are your Bibles on what is really happening in the world...the last one has amazing videos...watch the videos...If you read and study all this you will know what is really happening.

]


==A Plea==

Hello,

We've had some discussions in the talk page of the Israel-Lebanon conflict article, where you've repeatedly made allegations against Israel in general and against various editors- including me- as if they have been systematically sowing propaganda inside the article.

Look, you don't look like a real hate-addict to me. You even ended one of your messages with "God bless", which means you believe in God, which- I hope- means that you believe in basic tenets of human decency. That means that you, like me, hate to see the innocent Lebanese citizens suffering. That also means that you, like me- again, I hope- see that when innocent Israeli citizens die, that is very sad and tragic as well.

I say "innocent Israeli people" because you seem not to accept that, that there is such a thing at all as innocent Israeli people. But there is. Even if Israel was founded based on only violence and war crimes, which I believe it wasn't but even if it was, Israel is full of people who were born into this conflict, who did not choose any of it or its history. Spain has a history of war crimes, the United States has a history of war crimes, England has a history of war crimes, practically every nation has seen a dark hour of morality fluctuation when it was in a desparate time and feared for its life, or in a trance of ecstasy trying to conquer more resources, more land. If that were enough to condemn a whole nation for eternity, then the whole world is as permanently condemned as Israel is, if not more so. After all there have been countless war crimes in the long, long history of mankind, and Israel is only 50-some years old.

I don't know where and how you got to the point of view you have now about Israel and the kind of people in it, who told you that we're terrorists and peace-haters and so forth and so on by our nature. I sense, however, that somebody, or several people, have told you all about it. Probably people you trust, people whose words you value and think to be the absolute truth. I am not saying that they are bad people or that they are lying to you. It's good to trust other people, they often mean well. But please do consider that maybe your whole view of Israel's history and people isn't as complete as you thought it was, maybe there's another side to the issue and it's not so black and white. You're on the internet, after all. If there ever was a place to gain a broader perspective on an issue, this is it. I question all the time whether the things I've been fed in school, by my parents, by authority figures in my life, whether these are actually correct or just the result of the one-sided bias of my environment and the people I've spent my life listening to. It's a good thing to do. I understand where some of the people who support Hezbollah in Lebanon or Hamas in the PA are coming from- not accept, but at least ''understand''. I think the same can be applied to us. We're people. Rational, feeling, thinking people. We're not Devil Spawn.

I don't know whether our leadership actually spreads illusions of peace while trying to get away from it, like you said. I know what the people on the street here crave, though, and that really is peace. They want to live and let live, and have tragically been dragged to a crusade inside Lebanon for pure fear of those who have openly declared they won't let them live, the Hezbollah. Ask any Israeli on the street whether they'd be for lasting peace in the region and they'll answer, "Inshallah". Or "Im Irze Hashem", that's the same thing in Hebrew. Sure, you can tell them that the territory never belonged to them in the first place, but what's that to them? They were BORN here. Imagine that you were born into a place like this, disputed territory that others claim as their own. Would you give up your right to be there, to live your life, just because of that?...

I guess what this is all leading up to is, I experience Israel as a much brighter land and culture than you've described it as, and personally I am not on any sort of mission to twist Misplaced Pages to any end except for adherence to the NPoV policy. Like I said on the talk page, I am eager for the facts to speak for themselves- and if the facts really do say that Israel is a terrorist, money-sucking nation or whatnot, I will not silence them in any way. And I would really appreciate it if you would please stop making these accusations over at the talk page of that article; believe me, Misplaced Pages's editors are ''very'' aware that people with agendas are lurking around the corner waiting to inject PoV and propaganda into the article. You don't need to warn them. And similarly, all the allegations against Israel on a political level in the article are serving no purpose except to ignite heated discussion which has probably been done over and over again in more appropriate forums.

If you want to bring the Arab/Hezbollah perspective of this conflict to this article, you're very welcome. You certainly seem very passionate about that and passion is a good thing when doing work, it means you'll do your work well. Just make sure that you adhere to Misplaced Pages's guidelines. They're not very difficult to adhere to and they say what sort of sources we can use, what you can or can't talk about in an article's talk page, etc., to stop Misplaced Pages from becoming a PoV battleground- in fact, also to stop the very same Israeli PoV pushers you're so adamant about preventing from ruining it. If you haven't yet, you can go read ] to understand why and how it works. And the points you make about Israel's history and its crimes as a nation can find their home in a better forum, where that kind of discussion is what they're looking for, not in Misplaced Pages where the first priority is to achieve common ground rather than to make points.

I hope this plea hasn't fallen on deaf ears. Certainly I am already preparing for your response, adamantly insisting, no, Israel has no right to exist, it is based on a policy of bloodshed and should be eliminated. I earnestly hope not but somehow I fear that that would be the case. I will not tell you to stop thinking that (who am I to do that). But in that case I still at least ask that you respect Misplaced Pages policy. That's not too much to ask, I think. --] 05:07, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

== Reponse ==

I'm very happy to know that you see that there are victims on all sides. I'm sorry if I offended you by assuming that you didn't see that, but... Sadly, many do not.

Yes, I know that most of the Rabbis were against the foundation of a Jewish state in Israel- it's stuck in my head together with the rest of the heaps upon heaps of headache-inducing information from my history final exam. And I understand what you're saying about the "holy land" being much more and I absolutely agree, land is not holy, the only thing sacred is Man (Man is in God as God is in Man). But, you know... I was born here. My holy land is that tree I see every day when I walk out of my house, the people I know who live here too, the unbearably hot weather, the culture here, my friends, my family. I'm sure you have a Holy Land like that for yourself and you love it the same way I love mine. That decision to form Israel... Maybe it was right, maybe it was wrong. It has caused suffering, it has spared people from suffering. What if it hadn't been founded? Who knows? The important thing is that it's here now, and people are living in it now, people who are very scared of Islamic fundamentalists like Mahmoud Ahmedinajad who call for their destruction and say that they are the people who are to blame for all the wars in history and things like that. The average person on the street hears that and thinks, what! I never started a war! I never 'sucked money' out of anybody, I never were a bother to Ahmedinajad or any Arab in my life, why can't we solve this in a way which doesn't involve the destruction of my home? And as these voices calling for the destruction of his home grow louder that person's heart grows thicker with intolerance and survival instinct. So he wages war on where these voices, and the missiles backing up these voices, are coming from. That's human nature, the ] instinct unmistakably showing. As I said we're starving for peace here. If only Hezbollah were to say, okay, yes, we acknowledge your right to be in Israel, we will not take any more of your soldiers and not fire any more rockets at you period- not for a limited time or as a temporary settlement, period--, and you just stay there and let the population of Lebanon prosper -- and we could honestly believe them. If only.

As for Iran's involvement and it being "dragged" into this, I don't know what degree of alleged involvement you're referring to when you're saying "dragged", because as far as I know it's undisputed that they've manufactured missiles and sent them to Hezbollah. But one way or the other, again, there's Misplaced Pages policy to rule on this matter. I haven't looked into the sources that are being used to show that IRA was among Hezbollah in there, so I don't know whether they meet ]. Certainly I haven't promised anybody to automatically insert any information just because it would tie Iran to the conflict, and you may have mistaken my simple promise to another editor to look into what he wants me to edit and see whether his proposed edit is acceptable and what I can do for him for a flat-out agreement to cooperate with him on inserting whatever he pleases into the article, which I decidedly did not do. Either way that's what we have policy for. And worry not- you said it yourself, the truth always wins in the end. I often feel comforted by that fact, even if the truth isn't always the most comfortable to me. --] 06:00, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

==Israel-Lebanon conflict talk page==

Please stop adding a long list of hyperlinks to ]. Talk pages are not to be used for general discussion of an issue - ]. Please see ] for guidance on how Misplaced Pages talk pages should be used. -- ] 19:05, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

I am not they asked for sources to insert the information and I am providing sources. Now add the information into the article. ]

==Blocked for spamming multiple talk pages==

{| class="user-block"
|| ]
|| You have been temporarily blocked from editing Misplaced Pages for continuing to add ] links. If you wish to make useful contributions, you are welcome to come back after the block expires.
|}<!-- Template:spam5 --> -- ] 19:15, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

You are decivieng the real reason. You are a fabricating the reason why you blovked me for posting information about the Israeli attacks on Lebanon on all the relevant pages. YOU CAN NOT BLOCK SOMEONE FOR ADDING INFORMATION ON THE TALK PAGE ESPECIALLY FOR VERIFICATION AS SUPPORT FOR STATMENTS. ]

NOt of those were spam links. We need to support what we say with verification and that is exactly what I did. You continously deleted! Why? WHy did you delete it and say it is not relevent to the article? How is the use of Israeli illegal weapons on Lebanese civilians not relevant to the conflict? It should be mentioned in the article/ How dare you block me on such false terms?! ]

:You were repeatedly spamming the same thing to multiple talk pages, not just to this one, as ]. If you want to contribute something to the discussion or the article then do so, but don't spam multiple articles with lists of links. -- ] 19:23, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

*You're doing it again. Stop doing it. Spam gets removed. Period. Don't re-insert it. Period. --]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 15:08, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 06:56, 8 August 2022

Unregistered editors using this IP address received messages on this talk page years ago. Since users of the IP address have likely changed, these messages have been removed. They can be viewed in the page history.