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Revision as of 14:17, 14 June 2016 editDuncanHill (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers162,363 edits →Errors in In the news: So you're reason for not linking it is that you don't want to, not that there is any policy or guideline reason not to?← Previous edit		Latest revision as of 19:04, 29 December 2024 edit undoChiswick Chap (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Page movers, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers296,129 edits →Next DYK: ReplyTag: Reply
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	== Errors in the summary of ~~] or ] ''featured article''~~ ==		== Errors in the summary of the featured article ==
			<div style="position: fixed; visibility: hidden"><span style="font-size: 0">Please do not remove this invisible timestamp. See ] and ]. - Dank (]) 01:24, 29 September 2022 (UTC)</span></div>
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			=== ] ===

			=== ] ===
⚫	==Errors in '']''==
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	;Orlando shooting
	*Orlando shooting: the article says at least 50 people were killed, the hook here says 49. ] (]) 01:44, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
	**It seems there were 49 victims, but some totals are also counting the gunman who was killed as well. Not sure what we should go with in the blurb. ] (]) 06:26, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
	***The major news outlets made a big deal out of reducing the count to 49 (plus the perp) yesterday, hence my update. Of course the total may rise with the number of serious injuries, that can be dealt with as and when it happens. ] (]) 06:32, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
	* Shall we link "gay nighclub" with ] or just say "Pulse"? --] (]) 13:02, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
	*:The first is a candidate for deletion, the second is meaningless on its own and adds little to the existing "gay nightclub" (it's not important what it was called), so it should stay as it is. ] (]) 13:05, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
	*::I don't think "being a candidate for deletion" is a valid reason not to link to an article (and looking at the ] it doesn't look likely to be deleted anytime soon). ] (]) 13:14, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
	*:::Well I do, but I'm sure you'll find another admin out there prepared to do exactly what you personally want. ] (]) 13:16, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
	*::::And as long as you're an admin you will do exactly what you personally want? Could you point to the policy that says that articles should not be linked to once they have been proposed for deletion? ] (]) 13:43, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
	*:::::Yes, when it comes to inaction, I will do precisely that. I very much doubt there is a policy relating to such minutiae. ] (]) 14:13, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
	*::::::So you're reason for not linking it is that you don't want to, not that there is any policy or guideline reason not to? ] (]) 14:17, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

			=== ] ===
	'''Elements'''
	*IUPAC is known as IUPAC (pronounced eye-you-pac), not 'the' IUPAC. You wouldn't say the NASA for another initialism would you? I notice the article has been changed to support this erroneous view and I'll undo that if I'm allowed. ] (]) 10:04, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
	**Hmm, if that's correct then we shouldn't use "the". Maybe it would be easier to just use the full name of the organisation? To continue with the NASA example, it's at ] whereas this article is at ]. ] (]) 10:12, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
	***I agree that including 'the' sounds odd. Just delete it. ] ] 12:35, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
	****Would that be because you know it's pronounced as a word and not a string of letters? I didn't know that and I would bet most of our readers wouldn't either. My preference is still to use the full name (and therefore keep the "the"). ] (]) 12:41, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
	*****I agree with Jenks here. ] (]) 13:07, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
	******I (who am not a chemist) knew it was called IUPAC (pronounced as Simon says above) long before I knew it was the International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry. ] (]) 13:16, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
	*******Yes, well that's as maybe, but our articles use common name principles, so presumably this means the majority know it as International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry, not IUPAC. ] (]) 13:20, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
	********Misplaced Pages is not a reliable source. ] (]) 13:42, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
	*********Eh? We're talking about accessibility for our readers, not reliable sourcing. ] (]) 14:13, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
	**********Oh, I thought we were talking about what is was known by to most people. I must have misread "presumably this means the majority know it as International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry, not IUPAC". ] (]) 14:16, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

		⚫	== Errors with "]" ==
	'''Ice hockey'''
			* The prior discussion of the Azerbaijan Airlines Flight 8243 crash has been removed, but it was suggested to add "is shot down" to the blurb. I want to point out that at this point, our article does not factually state that it was shot down, and clearly has positioned it as a possible factor, but still with no definitive conclusion that it was. It is far better to stick with the clear crash aspect rather than jump to a conclusion that is not yet considered fact. I have removed "is shot down" from the blurb for this reason. --] (]) 17:41, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

			== Errors in "Did you know ..." ==
	Please can we spell out 'MVP', or change the phrasing to e.g. 'Conn Smythe trophy winner'? The initialism is not understood outside North America. The link is a bit of an easter egg already. ] ] 12:35, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
			=== ] ===
	:I think the term is becoming increasingly more well known outside NA, but I see your point. I'd prefer to go with "Conn Smythe Trophy winner", but would be interested to hear from someone who follows the NHL about which term is most used. ] (]) 12:41, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
			*{{tq\| that a reviewer identified an "audible contempt" for men in the songs of Ceechynaa, who entered the UK singles chart earlier this month with "Peggy?}} I fail to see how this does not living person"]]. I'd think contempt for half the populace is a negative thing. Pinging {{u\|Launchballer}} and {{u\|Jolielover}}. ] 00:34, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
	::Speaking as someone with no interest in this sport, MVP is far more accessible to me that "Conn Smythe Trophy winner", the latter is meaningless at a glance. ] (]) 13:05, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
			::Not undue; she is literally notable for songs about that. Otherwise, "that the "''']'''" musician ''']''' worked in the sex industry before her music career?" should work instead. Pinging also {{yo\|Crisco 1492\|Z1720}}.--<span style="background:#FF0;font-family:Rockwell Extra Bold">]]]</span> 00:54, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
			::*Yeah, I wouldn't call that "undue", or even necessarily negative. Same reason I'd expect a bon mot like "a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle" to be allowed for a blurb for ] or ]. — ] (]) 01:01, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::Seconding this; the hook also specifically refers to songs by her which should not be a violation. ]] 09:20, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::This is a blatant breach of WP:DYKBLP. Her having a "contempt for men" is not something that sources widely agree on, and is clearly a negative description of her, so is unudue negativity in a DYK Hook. There is no issue with having it in the article, where it sits in context, but not as a standalone one-liner on the main page. Not keen on focusing on her work in the sex industry either for similar reasons. I've amended to mention the review which is more positive sounding "proudly waving the sexual liberation flag". If this is no good then I think a pull might be the only other option.  — ] (]) 09:58, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
			::::For the future, I'd also point out that we've got a ] violation here: we shouldn't use "identified X" for a subjective judgement, but a more subjective phrase like "considered", "believed", "judged", "opined" or so on. "Identified" implies that we are endorsing this judgement. '']'' <sup>]·]</sup> 14:42, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
			*{{tq\| ... that nearly 300 construction workers showed up to work at 8 am to continue building reactors 5 and 6, unaware of the Chernobyl disaster?}} The source reads "Despite the disaster unfolding next door at 8am that morning, the 286 construction workers of the day shift clocked on." I can't find any mention as to whether the workers were aware, though it's possible the reference didn't fully load for me. Pinging {{u\|Hawkeye7}} and {{u\|Bollardant}}. ] 00:34, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
			*:Thanks, {{u\|Dilettante}}! Changed {{tq\|unaware of}} to {{tq\|despite}} :) ] (] • she/her) 18:07, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

	== ~~Errors in the~~ ] ''Did you know~~...''~~==		=== ] ===
			I'm really nervous about running ] (]). Are '''' (assoc. of grapefruit sellers), '''' (, also grapefruit seller), , , and really reliable and independent sources? The article cites two recipes ( ) for the claim that grapefruit is used in cooking fish even though neither of those pages actually verify that claim, and for a whole bunch of ]? I think this article needs some more attention before showtime. ] (] • she/her) 18:05, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
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			:* These issues don't seem to be show-stoppers and don't relate to the planned hook. For example, the Florida trade association is used to verify a list of varieties which seems reasonable. The medical issue is perhaps the most serious but note that we have an entire article about that alone: ]. What I find puzzling is that there's zero mention of the famous ] but that's not a DYK showstopper either.
			:: Anyway, let's ping {{u\|Chiswick Chap}} who nominated this as a GA and is quite diligent.
			:: ]🐉(]) 18:56, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::Andrew, none of the questions seem to be relevant to DYK (and I did the GAN, not the DYK). I'll have a go at fixing them, but I'd suggest that should be purely in parallel with the DYK as the matters don't intersect. All the best, ] (]) 19:04, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

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			* At "more than 3000 years" maybe insert comma in 3000 per all over thousands in blurb? ] (]) 09:22, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
			*:{{done}}  — ] (]) 10:01, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

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Errors in the summary of the featured article

Please do not remove this invisible timestamp. See WT:ERRORS and WP:SUBSCRIBE. - Dank (push to talk) 01:24, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Errors with "In the news"

The prior discussion of the Azerbaijan Airlines Flight 8243 crash has been removed, but it was suggested to add "is shot down" to the blurb. I want to point out that at this point, our article does not factually state that it was shot down, and clearly has positioned it as a possible factor, but still with no definitive conclusion that it was. It is far better to stick with the clear crash aspect rather than jump to a conclusion that is not yet considered fact. I have removed "is shot down" from the blurb for this reason. --Masem (t) 17:41, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Errors in "Did you know ..."

Current DYK

that a reviewer identified an "audible contempt" for men in the songs of Ceechynaa, who entered the UK singles chart earlier this month with "Peggy? I fail to see how this does not "unduly focus on negative aspects of living person". I'd think contempt for half the populace is a negative thing. Pinging Launchballer and Jolielover. Sincerely, Dilettante 00:34, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Not undue; she is literally notable for songs about that. Otherwise, "that the "Peggy" musician Ceechynaa worked in the sex industry before her music career?" should work instead. Pinging also @Crisco 1492 and Z1720:.--Laun chba ller 00:54, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, I wouldn't call that "undue", or even necessarily negative. Same reason I'd expect a bon mot like "a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle" to be allowed for a blurb for Irina Dunn or Gloria Steinem. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:01, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Seconding this; the hook also specifically refers to songs by her which should not be a violation. jolielover♥talk 09:20, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

This is a blatant breach of WP:DYKBLP. Her having a "contempt for men" is not something that sources widely agree on, and is clearly a negative description of her, so is unudue negativity in a DYK Hook. There is no issue with having it in the article, where it sits in context, but not as a standalone one-liner on the main page. Not keen on focusing on her work in the sex industry either for similar reasons. I've amended to mention the review which is more positive sounding "proudly waving the sexual liberation flag". If this is no good then I think a pull might be the only other option. — Amakuru (talk) 09:58, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

For the future, I'd also point out that we've got a MOS:SAID violation here: we shouldn't use "identified X" for a subjective judgement, but a more subjective phrase like "considered", "believed", "judged", "opined" or so on. "Identified" implies that we are endorsing this judgement. UndercoverClassicist 14:42, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

... that nearly 300 construction workers showed up to work at 8 am to continue building reactors 5 and 6, unaware of the Chernobyl disaster? The source reads "Despite the disaster unfolding next door at 8am that morning, the 286 construction workers of the day shift clocked on." I can't find any mention as to whether the workers were aware, though it's possible the reference didn't fully load for me. Pinging Hawkeye7 and Bollardant. Sincerely, Dilettante 00:34, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
Thanks, Dilettante! Changed unaware of to despite :) theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 18:07, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Next DYK

I'm really nervous about running Grapefruit (nom). Are Go Florida Grapefruit (assoc. of grapefruit sellers), Texas Sweet (twice, also grapefruit seller), this blog, this tour website, and this 130-year-old government(?) report really reliable and independent sources? The article cites two recipes (1 2) for the claim that grapefruit is used in cooking fish even though neither of those pages actually verify that claim, and drugs.com for a whole bunch of serious MEDRS claims? I think this article needs some more attention before showtime. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 18:05, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

These issues don't seem to be show-stoppers and don't relate to the planned hook. For example, the Florida trade association is used to verify a list of varieties which seems reasonable. The medical issue is perhaps the most serious but note that we have an entire article about that alone: Grapefruit–drug interactions. What I find puzzling is that there's zero mention of the famous Grapefruit diet but that's not a DYK showstopper either.

Anyway, let's ping Chiswick Chap who nominated this as a GA and is quite diligent.

Andrew🐉(talk) 18:56, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Andrew, none of the questions seem to be relevant to DYK (and I did the GAN, not the DYK). I'll have a go at fixing them, but I'd suggest that should be purely in parallel with the DYK as the matters don't intersect. All the best, Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:04, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

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At "more than 3000 years" maybe insert comma in 3000 per all over thousands in blurb? JennyOz (talk) 09:22, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
Done — Amakuru (talk) 10:01, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

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