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Revision as of 04:09, 24 July 2016 editRussell.mo (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users2,708 edits →Limits on frequent questioners?← Previous edit Latest revision as of 15:56, 22 November 2024 edit undoLowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs)Bots, Template editors2,293,709 editsm Archiving 2 discussion(s) to Misplaced Pages talk:Reference desk/Archive 133) (bot 
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== Unreadable in dark mode ==
== For native English speakers only: Would a native English speaker talk like this? ==
{{hat|Moved to Language desk}}

(Let's say A and B are friends in their late twenties, and A is a pessimist when it comes to dating and relationships.)

A: ''She only loves you for your money, obviously. If you told her you sold your car and quit your job, she'd be gone in a minute.''

B (being sarcastic): ''Sure, I'll take your word for it. You're a self-proclaimed authority on dating, aren't you? You made me realize that every woman I've ever met or fallen in love with was either a sociopath or a gold digger.
''

(I got mixed responses the last time I asked native-English speakers if this conversation sounded natural to them. Some said the wording is so archaic and stilted. Others said it's fine the way it is. What are your thoughts? If you were A, and B told you that, would you say "well, I didn't expect a 21st century native English speaker to say that"?)] (]) 02:59, 23 January 2016 (UTC
{{hab}}

== Semi-protected edit request on 2 March 2016 ==

{{edit semi-protected|Misplaced Pages:Reference desk/Humanities|answered=yes}}
<!-- Be sure to state UNAMBIGUOUSLY your suggested changes; editors who can edit the protected page need to know what to add or remove. Blank edit requests WILL be declined. -->
<!-- Begin request -->

== Semi-protected edit request on 14 April 2016 ==

{{edit semi-protected|Misplaced Pages:Reference desk/Humanities|answered=yes}}
<!-- Be sure to state UNAMBIGUOUSLY your suggested changes; editors who can edit the protected page need to know what to add or remove. Blank edit requests WILL be declined. -->
<!-- Begin request -->
== Admin attention needed ==
{{hat|blocked}}
Can someone please block the Static IP making about presidents needing to be sodomized? Thanks. ] (]) 04:04, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
:I've reported that jerk to AIV. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 05:00, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
::It looks like a leading but marginally answerable question. Certainly there is a lot of Roman trappery about the US presidency that invites negative Roman ideas about receptive intercourse; it's not truly wrong to give them an airing. I don't like Misplaced Pages keeping hot lists of topics too sensitive to be asked about. ] (]) 10:19, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
:::I don't know what Romans have got to do with anything, but if you look at he ''original'' version of the question, you can discern the level of the OP's sincerity. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 16:21, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
::::Doesn't look that different from someone questioning whether a woman could be president - and that is only ''just'' on the way out... ] (]) 23:59, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
:::::Talking about getting "nailed" is not a serious question. I would call it an anti-gay slur. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 01:05, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

Obvious troll is obvious. <small>] <small><sup>Need help? '''<nowiki>{{ping|HighInBC}}</nowiki></small></sup>'''</small> 01:16, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
: Take a step back for a moment and ask yourself whether someone posting as "HighInBC" whose contribution is a four-word tautology/internet meme should really be asking me to make snap judgments. The OP's bias is obvious but the question remains relevant. After all, we all know about the Taliban and their ] distinction, which is based on a related concept that is ''not'' actually the same standard by which Iranians do executions. See ]. ] (]) 11:31, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
:::I didn't ask you to make any judgement at all. I used my own judgement. <small>] <small><sup>Need help? '''<nowiki>{{ping|HighInBC}}</nowiki></small></sup>'''</small> 16:24, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
::With all due respect Wnt, we're getting trolled with this. ] (]) 12:32, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
:::Some oysters spit out the sand, and you can buy sixteen of them for a buck fifty in a little can. Others dutifully wrap it in mother of pearl, and some of their works are auctioned off one at a time in <strike>London</strike> Berlin. We shouldn't really fear a grain of sand here. ] (]) 14:12, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
::::It's not about fear or oysters, it's about making trolls clam up. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 16:11, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

{{ping|Wnt}} If you watch the reference desk you will recognize that this is a reoccurring character. The person who posting the question was trolling us, and this thread is feeding the troll. The troll says "'''Nom nom nom, nummy attention'''". As for my name, you are welcome to come discuss that on my talk page but it is hardly relevant to this discussion. <small>] <small><sup>Need help? '''<nowiki>{{ping|HighInBC}}</nowiki></small></sup>'''</small> 16:23, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
{{hab}}

== User disguising identity? ==

There is a user with posts on the ref desks who signs as: <code><nowiki>] (])</nowiki></code>, which renders as ] (]). I recall a troll from awhile ago with a moniker similar to "Russell", but don't recall specifically. ~Cheers, <small></small>:] (]) 22:03, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

:Such a signature is permissible per ]. An extensive discussion of this user's signature ("Space Ghost" at the time -- other monikers have included "Angelos|Angelus", "SuperGirlsVibrator", "Mr. Prophet", & "Mr. Zoot Cig Bunner") is at ]. -- ] 14:01, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
::Okay; thanks for clarifying. —-:] (]) 18:03, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
:::<small>]: Just to let you know,
:::1) I did not receive your ''notification'' at the time.
:::2) ''Wiki-laides'' hated ''SuperGirlsVibrator'', and a ''Wikipedian'' made me look like a ''flop'' when I was learning with the name ''Mr. Prophet'' ] - He probably thought I was ''the <s>O</s>one... {{=2|cute}}
:::3) is not me either.
:::Regards.
:::] (]) 09:41, 22 July 2016 (UTC)</small>

== Help sought ==
{{archivetop|NAC:Original Poster has accepted admonition and is dropping the issue. ] (]) 14:03, 20 July 2016 (UTC)}}
<s>Peeps,

Can you all view this please. This two are behaving like "idiots" and calling me disruptive. And Guy is threatening me on top - . Note: I posted to Guy twice before out of annoyance. I thought I'd be nice the third time, but he's an idiot. There is another idiot who's trying to support Guy Macon's baseless argument, named ClanPan...

Can you guys shed some light to this so that I can take them to ANI for disrespecting me, using force. - If they understand their wrong doings I won't take them to ANI.

] (]) 18:40, 19 July 2016 (UTC)</s>
:{{small|Why do you keep calling your fellow editors ]? ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 20:38, 19 July 2016 (UTC)}}
::{{small|It's short for "people". Slang for friends, close pals, etc. See Urban Dictionary, my link attempt broke the Small template for some reason. &#8213;]&nbsp;] 20:45, 19 July 2016 (UTC)}}

:I know nothing of this dispute, care even less. But you might refrain from calling people idiots while complaining that they are disrespecting you. &#8213;]&nbsp;] 20:53, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

::I think Saint Russell should definitely take this to ANI and get some useful feedback. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 21:40, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

:::I agree 100%. Nobody at talk:Reference desk has the power to shut idiots up, but at ] they have the ability to completely block idiots from editing Misplaced Pages. Now that Russell.mo / Apostle has determined that "he Is an idiot" he should definitely "take me to ANI for disrespecting him, using force." Regarding the "If they understand their wrong doings I won't take them to ANI" comment, nothing Russell.mo / Apostle has said has in any way caused my to understand my wrong doings, so ANI is clearly the only way to force me into submission to Russell.mo / Apostle's will. --] (]) 23:38, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
::::{{small|I have to say I didn't understand the "force" part. Maybe he's going to use ''The'' Force? ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 23:47, 19 July 2016 (UTC)}}
:::::{{small|<s>I just assumed that he was talking about the ] with a speech impediment. You know, like how he says "idiot" when he ''obviously'' means "all around nice fellow who everybody loves". It's a common error... --] (]) 01:59, 20 July 2016 (UTC)</s>}}
:::::{{small|Clearly enough for me, Bugs' comment was a thinly-veiled jab at the user's imperfect conversational English, with full knowledge that English is his second language. It's treating ESL users as second-class "others", not unlike similar treatment of IP users, and equally inappropriate. &#8213;]&nbsp;] 02:10, 20 July 2016 (UTC)}}
:::::::] - Can you explain to me what the Original Poster is trying to say? I understand that English may be his second language, but if one edits the English Misplaced Pages, one should know enough English so that, if one makes threats to go to ANI, someone can figure out what the ANI issue is. Otherwise linguistic ] becomes an issue. ] (]) 02:14, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
::::::::No, I can't make any more sense of it than you can. And I don't disagree about linguistic competence. My only point was that neither justifies ridicule. &#8213;]&nbsp;] 02:17, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::Agreed. The Original Poster is creating a better case against himself than is created by linguistic ridicule. ] (]) 02:38, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
::::::The Original Poster is '''very strongly cautioned''' to read ] before going to ANI. I have no idea what wrongdoing the Original Poster is alleging was committed against them. I do see that they have engaged in personal attacks themselves. However, their complaint is incomprehensible; ANI is a problematical forum, but I do not recall when I have seen them block an editor with a more-than-ten-year clean block log based solely on an incomprehensible post that doesn't even allege a wrongdoing that I can understand. ] (]) 02:07, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
----
Hello {{U|ClanPan}}, I might have misjudged you, regardless, please forgive me if so. My internet ''kbs'' ran out as I was re-correcting myself on the RD Talkpage – if you don’t believe me than please check on the RD Computing page, that I re-wrote the message, deleting your name but not “you guys” carelessly… It takes time for me to write a passage/message, and I do make mistakes if I rush it… I’m also ]. Plus, it was late night, I couldn’t ''top-up''…

Everyone has bad days sometimes; mine’s explained above. I don’t deal with ANI; you guys are enough… My brain malfunctioned because I couldn’t “undo” it…

Hello Everyone else (except Guy Macon), sorry about this post; my mistake. Let’s conclude the matter as “Guy Macon is right…” I don’t want/need to win this rubbish argument – I behaved like a little kid...

Let’s disclose this matter. <small>Of course, you are more than welcome to take it to the ANI. Your ''free will'', what I careless of...</small>

Regards.

] (]) 05:47, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
{{archivebottom}}

== Limits on frequent questioners? ==

This is just an idea that I have decided to run up the flagpole and see if anyone salutes it. I may turn this into a proper RfC ].

There are certain individuals who use the refdesks a ''lot''. They ask question after question, seldom responding to followups. In many cases asking refdesk questions is pretty much all they do. These tend to be especially low-quality questions.

I propose that we set the following limits on frequent questioners:

'''No more than 20 question in any 60-day period, or productive edits must exceed refdesk questions, whichever limit is larger.'''

Comments? --] (]) 13:59, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
:I agree in principle but have real doubts in practice. The first problem is that it is difficult to define "productive edits". The second is that, if an editor really wants to waste the time of the Reference Desk regulars, they can do so by sockpuppetry, which is more disruptive than just asking too many vague or weird questions. Also, how does the OP plan to enforce it? Presumably by topic-banning posters who violate it. In this case, I think that there is one targeted editor, and the real question perhaps is whether to topic-ban a particular editor who changes their signature confusingly and recently backed off on a very strange threat. I suggest to GM that this idea be put on hold for a while and see if the need for it fades away. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 14:13, 20 July 2016 (UTC)</span></small>

:Contrary to some opinions, I don't think the editor in question wishes to waste the time of the Reference Desk regulars. He is not a troll. Rather, RD is his social outlet, where he likes to hang out. He repeatedly refers to us as his friends (peeps), which is not what WP is for, not even RD (]). This has been ongoing for close to two years and I don't think it's going to "fade away" by itself. I'm not aware of a significant problem aside from this user, and I don't think one problem user justifies a new bureaucracy. In my opinion the user should be encouraged to become a contributing Misplaced Pages editor (even the English-challenged can make a significant contriibution) and, failing that, to find another place to hang out. Unless I'm completely off base in my perception of him, he is the kind of person who, seeing a clear consensus on this, would not need an indef block. &#8213;]&nbsp;] 14:49, 20 July 2016 (UTC)


Unfortunately I have no solutions to offer, but ] is nearly unreadable in the new dark mode - the very light grey text in the white boxes just vanishes. Thought I'd at least note it here in case anyone knows of a fix. ] (]) 15:00, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
:I would argue for a more straightforward approach: No new questions until acknowledging the answers to previous questions. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 16:06, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
:It all looks normal to me. Where is this "dark mode" option you're talking about? ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 00:10, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
::Requiring him to add a "thank you" at the end of each thread would hardly address the problem. &#8213;]&nbsp;] 16:10, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
::See ] @] ] (]) 03:47, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
:::Actually, it ''would'' address the "problem" posed by the OP here. Trying to impose a "question limit" will do nothing to improve Misplaced Pages. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 16:13, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
:::It looks like that's where complaints about this thing should be taken. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 03:58, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
::::I have no complaints about the tool; seems to be working as intended, but this page isn't set up to render usefully using it. But hey ho. ] (]) 12:13, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::I think you should take this question to the Village Pump. Either that, or don't user Dark Mode. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 03:03, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::: Good advice. I tried it once. I didn't like it. <small> (Sex, that is. I also didn't like being reasonable, or the new Misplaced Pages dark mode.)</small> -- ] </sup></span>]] 22:08, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
:Thank you ] and ]! Looks great now. ] (]) 13:29, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
::Great! <span style="background:white; color: black;">🐸</span>&nbsp;] (]) 08:26, 9 August 2024 (UTC)


== Humanities and header hatnote ==
:The Ref Desk looks more like a science forum where regulars contribute to but where most regulars pretend that it is a real Ref Desk. This cause this whole issue where most questions are asked by the same few people while that kicks off a discussion by the others, to them it's like a new discussion thread. Then if we're then not satisfied with the quality of the questions asked, we should just start new discussion threads ourselves. That may then attract the attention of other people who are just lurking and not participating. It may transform the Ref Desk from the science discussion forum it is now, to a real Ref Desk. ] (]) 00:28, 21 July 2016 (UTC)


Last week, ] decided to to the humanities desk, and then ] decided to a few days later. Here's the content:
:I suspect that the cost in acrimony of trying to craft and enforce such a limit would far outweigh any possible benefit, especially since the downside of "too many" questions is so small, especially since they are so easily ignored by anyone so inclined. —] (]) 04:52, 21 July 2016 (UTC)


{{redirect|WP:RD/H|the template header used in all areas of the ]|WP:Reference desk/Header}}
*The is {{ping|Russell.mo}}, who changes his signature on a monthly basis (so that his trolling can not easily be searched for), who erases his own edits, and who blanks his own talk page, and who asks utterly ridiculous (yes, I said ridiculous) questions to see if he can get anyone to answer, then "apologizes" with a surfeit of irritating emoji gifs that my adblocker would stop anywhere else on the interweb.
:This thread should be about warning our supposedly Mongolian and Midwestern troll to cut his shit the fuck out. Other than him, I am not sure whom {{ping|Guy Macon}} could be accusing. ] (]) 03:45, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
::Thanks for the belated link. I made my comment above without quite a bit of important context. User's motive/intent aside, we clearly have a ] issue here. &#8213;]&nbsp;] 12:28, 22 July 2016 (UTC)


Neither adding nor removing was discussed, and lack of discussion was . So, let's start a discussion...is this header a good idea? I'm leaning toward "no", thanks to the reasons given for removal, but I can understand the reasoning for adding. ] (]) 22:55, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
::In my opinion, Russel.mo is exactly as much of a troll as you are ;) ] (]) 16:36, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
:Agree with the removal, there is no reason to have that at the top of the page. --] 14:15, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
:::{{Small|I'm not entirely sure how to take that. ;) &#8213;]&nbsp;] 16:37, 22 July 2016 (UTC)}}
:No; the template is way further down the ladder. While pageviews are not infalliable, – on a logarithmic scale, you'll note – is pretty damning. If someone is looking for ] they probably know how to find it. ] (]) 19:24, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
::::That's the fun part. You ''could'' interpret it as me calling both of them trolls. But for anyone who hasn't been following along, I have a pretty strong record of AGF and ''not'' calling people trolls, even if they have at times engaged in behavior that is not entirely suitable for the reference desk. So the much more reasonable interpretation is that I'm implying that neither of them are trolls. Or if the are trolls, it is only to a rather similar and small extent, in my opinion. ] (]) 18:43, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
:::::Ah, I misread that as a reply to me. Me, the ] fanatic. &#8213;]&nbsp;] 19:37, 22 July 2016 (UTC)


== Bots ==


Do the bots really edit pages or something else because I saw from the citation bot literally remove and replace the same information with the same words ] (]) 11:45, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
: states: '''Reference desk – Serving as virtual librarians, Misplaced Pages volunteers tackle your questions on a wide range of subjects.''' – this I believe is applicable to ‘’registered’’ and ‘’unregistered users’’, a problem (thread fanatics/trolls) what some of us tried to solve a while back rather than moaning about it like some do here, who amazingly done the 20 voting thing too… It did not work out, and I couldn’t support it back (couldn’t guide the ones who supported me, the wrong way) because (a) they are the doers (who can make good things happen), (b) I weighed everything and realised that, the creator of WP done his/her job beautifully, it’s some from within the community are creating issue(s) about certain things because it’s not adjusting with their boring lifestyle/emotions. Further information below stated by '''SemanticMantis''' below. -- ] (]) 04:07, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
:Where did you see that? ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 07:19, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
:Strongly oppose limits on questions. Even if you could get consensus, enforcement would be untenable as far as I can tell. I have never seen any user ask too many questions, in my opinion. If anyone thinks a user is asking too many questions, or does not like a question, they are free to skip it and move on. ] (]) 16:33, 22 July 2016 (UTC)


== Fake Desi media content querant ==
== collectivist trolling ==


Looks like the Californian troll who pretends to be a poorly comprehending fan of Indian subcontinent media, with poor English, has now got themself an account. (If I was sufficiently motivated, I'd link the thread several months back where they crowed in perfect English about successfully fooling us.)
I have hatted two threads, one on rape in Sweden, and one one I am not sure what about blacks in Alabama, since they are both accusations based on unsupported ''collective guilt'' premises, not requests for references. If the OP's want to post their questions again in actually neutral, non-baiting language, looking for sources, instead of provocation, they should feel free to do so. ] (]) 03:38, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Should something be done about this? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} ] (]) 07:51, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
:I suspect both of those questions came from the Nazi troll, trying to work his way toward a political point of some kind. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 04:07, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
:Not sure I follow. The last couple of times they've posted on Ents from an IP address, it's geolocated to India. --] 09:05, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
::The issue has been sorted, the account has been indefinitely blocked. --] 13:24, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 15:56, 22 November 2024

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Unreadable in dark mode

Unfortunately I have no solutions to offer, but Misplaced Pages:Reference desk is nearly unreadable in the new dark mode - the very light grey text in the white boxes just vanishes. Thought I'd at least note it here in case anyone knows of a fix. 57.140.16.8 (talk) 15:00, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

It all looks normal to me. Where is this "dark mode" option you're talking about? ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 00:10, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
See Misplaced Pages:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_214#Dark_mode_for_logged-in_users_on_desktop_coming_this_week! @Baseball Bugs 97.113.14.140 (talk) 03:47, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
It looks like that's where complaints about this thing should be taken. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 03:58, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
I have no complaints about the tool; seems to be working as intended, but this page isn't set up to render usefully using it. But hey ho. 97.113.14.140 (talk) 12:13, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
I think you should take this question to the Village Pump. Either that, or don't user Dark Mode. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 03:03, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
Good advice. I tried it once. I didn't like it. (Sex, that is. I also didn't like being reasonable, or the new Misplaced Pages dark mode.) -- Jack of Oz 22:08, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
Thank you Jdlrobson and Izno! Looks great now. 57.140.16.8 (talk) 13:29, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
Great! 🐸 Jdlrobson (talk) 08:26, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

Humanities and header hatnote

Last week, Mod creator decided to add a hatnote to the humanities desk, and then PrimeHunter decided to remove it a few days later. Here's the content:

"WP:RD/H" redirects here. For the template header used in all areas of the reference desks, see WP:Reference desk/Header.

Neither adding nor removing was discussed, and lack of discussion was one reason given for its removal. So, let's start a discussion...is this header a good idea? I'm leaning toward "no", thanks to the reasons given for removal, but I can understand the reasoning for adding. Nyttend (talk) 22:55, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Agree with the removal, there is no reason to have that at the top of the page. --Viennese Waltz 14:15, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
No; the template is way further down the ladder. While pageviews are not infalliable, the comparison – on a logarithmic scale, you'll note – is pretty damning. If someone is looking for WP:Reference desk/header they probably know how to find it. Cremastra (talk) 19:24, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Bots

Do the bots really edit pages or something else because I saw from the citation bot literally remove and replace the same information with the same words Avyanna.Owam (talk) 11:45, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Where did you see that? ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 07:19, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Fake Desi media content querant

Looks like the Californian troll who pretends to be a poorly comprehending fan of Indian subcontinent media, with poor English, has now got themself an account. (If I was sufficiently motivated, I'd link the thread several months back where they crowed in perfect English about successfully fooling us.) Should something be done about this? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.1.211.243 (talk) 07:51, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Not sure I follow. The last couple of times they've posted on Ents from an IP address, it's geolocated to India. --Viennese Waltz 09:05, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
The issue has been sorted, the account has been indefinitely blocked. --Viennese Waltz 13:24, 22 November 2024 (UTC)