Misplaced Pages

Latest revision as of 04:11, 12 January 2025

• Table of contents
• First discussion
• End of page
• New post

• WP:VPT
• WP:VP/T
• WP:TECHPUMP
• WP:PUMPTECH

If you want to report a JavaScript error, please follow this guideline. Questions about MediaWiki in general should be posted at the MediaWiki support desk. Discussions are automatically archived after remaining inactive for five days.

view · edit Frequently asked questions (see also: Misplaced Pages:FAQ/Technical) Click "" next to each point to see more details. If something looks wrong, purge the server's cache, then bypass your browser's cache. This tends to solve most issues, including improper display of images, user-preferences not loading, and old versions of pages being shown. No, we will not use JavaScript to set focus on the search box. This would interfere with usability, accessibility, keyboard navigation and standard forms. See task 3864. There is an accesskey property on it (default to accesskey="f" in English). Logged-in users can enable the "Focus the cursor in the search bar on loading the Main Page" gadget in their preferences. No, we will not add a spell-checker, or spell-checking bot. You can use a web browser such as Firefox, which has a spell checker. If you have problems making your fancy signature work, check Help:How to fix your signature. If you changed to another skin and cannot change back, use this link. Alternatively, you can press Tab until the "Save" button is highlighted, and press Enter. Using Mozilla Firefox also seems to solve the problem. If an image thumbnail is not showing, try purging its image description page. If the image is from Wikimedia Commons, you might have to purge there too. If it doesn't work, try again before doing anything else. Some ad blockers, proxies, or firewalls block URLs containing /ad/ or ending in common executable suffixes. This can cause some images or articles to not appear. For server or network status, please see Wikimedia Status. If you cannot reach Misplaced Pages services, see Reporting a connectivity issue.

• Refining the administrator elections process
• Blocks for promotional activity outside of mainspace
• Voluntary RfAs after resignation
• Proposed rewrite of WP:BITE
• LLM/chatbot comments in discussions

• view
• edit
• history
• watch
• archive
• talk
• purge

Can we do something about the ridiculous message displayed whenever syntax highlighting is taking "too long"?

Syntax highlighting on this page was disabled because it took too long. The maximum allowed highlighting time is 20ms, and your computer took 22ms. Try closing some tabs and programs and clicking "Show preview" or "Show changes". If that doesn't work, try a different web browser, and if that doesn't work, try a faster computer.

The threshold is probably set too low to being with, and most people couldn't care less about it taking 0.03s vs 0.02s, so to tell them that a mere 2/1000 sec difference is "not allowed" is pretty ridiculous. If someone really does have a slow computer, that's hardly by choice, and to tell them to try a faster one is like Captain Obvious rubbing salt into their wound. More often than not, it's not even the fault of the computer, but rather some background crap (thanks, MS!), or the browser, or simply a very large and complex page (and possibly even the (gasp) wiki JS code). Ideally this should be a pref configurable by the user. Or, they could click a button if they don't care about things being slightly slower on the current page as long as they can still get the highlighting (the way browsers pop up slow JS abort/continue messages; in this case it wouldn't be modal, of course). But I think mostly it's about the overly low threshold, because when a large page is taking a number of seconds to load anyway, a few extra thousandths for this hardly make a difference. 61.84.123.149 (talk) 16:26, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

This seems to come from the Gadget mw:User:Remember the dot/Syntax highlighter. This is a user gadget and is not enabled by default here (but available for users to enable). You should report the issue to the author. But also see mw:User:Remember the dot/Syntax highlighter#Timeout – Ammarpad (talk) 16:58, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Thanks a lot, that will probably do it for me. I was uner the impression it was a standard feature. 61.84.123.149 (talk) 17:36, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Well there is a standard feature as well. You might even be using multiple. See WP:HILITE. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 09:57, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

And the problem with the standard feature is that it doesn't have a timeout, so on very large pages it just freezes up the page until the browser eventually offers to kill it. --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 00:38, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

On what page does it actually freeze? CodeMirror is heavily optimized and much more performant nowadays. – SD0001 (talk) 09:00, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

@SD0001 I've been doing a lot of work cleaning up the top of Special:LongPages, and if I don't forget to disable syntax highlighting on any of those pages before editing the page locks up until eventually the browser offers to kill any running scripts. --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 21:33, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

Different assets for light and dark mode?

Is there any way to tell Misplaced Pages to display different images / media for Light vs Dark mode users? If not, could this be added in the form of a template, something like this?

{{adaptive|lightmode=]|darkmode=]}}

Due to transparency, some SVG and PNG images have bad contrast when viewed in Dark mode.

(repost from WP:TH as they said would be better here)

CrushedAsian255 (talk) 04:38, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

It would have to be hardcoded in CSS. Dark mode is configured on CSS pages through templatestyles. In order to specify a dark and light mode image in a template like that, Phab:T320322 would have to be fixed first. Snævar (talk) 05:07, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Have you tried using class=skin-invert-image already ? —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 09:55, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

{{If dark}} can be used to select what wikitext to display based on whether or not dark mode is enabled. isaacl (talk) 23:19, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Usage of which really should be avoided though. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 10:33, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

I agree that generally speaking, specific colours shouldn't be specified in wikitext, and using the CSS class to trigger colour inversion by the dark mode feature simplifies maintenance by having just one image. There are cases, such as a company logo with a variant designed for dark mode, where the ability to choose the appropriate image is desirable. isaacl (talk) 17:02, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

{{If dark}} may address the OP's question, although actual use of it may not be the best solution to the problem. – Jonesey95 (talk) 13:44, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

How to use inline style and CSS design tokens to color text?

I want to use {{NumBlk2}} to number the chemical formula P4-t-Bu#math_B and keep the color of the square brackets in the numbering.

The original chemical formula looked like this:

{{NumBlk|:|<math chem>\underbrace\ce{PCl5}_{(1)}\ \ce{->}\ \underbrace{t\text{-}\ce{Bu-N=PCl3}}_{(5)}</math>||RawN=y}}

${\displaystyle \underbrace {\ce {PCl5}} _{(1)}\ {\ce {->}}\ \underbrace {t{\text{-}}{\ce {Bu-N=PCl3}}} _{(5)}}$

The result after using {{NumBlk2}} for numbering:

{{NumBlk2|:|<math chem>\underbrace\ce{PCl5}_{(1)}\ \ce{->}\ \underbrace{t\text{-}\ce{Bu-N=PCl3}}_{(5)}</math>|<span style{{=}}"color: var(--color-base);"></span>|RawN=y|Id=math_B2}}

${\displaystyle \underbrace {\ce {PCl5}} _{(1)}\ {\ce {->}}\ \underbrace {t{\text{-}}{\ce {Bu-N=PCl3}}} _{(5)}}$

(The ID must be unique, so I renumbered it to B2.)

But the recommendation is currently restricted to use inside TemplateStyles:

As described here, using design tokens directly in an article (e.g. <span style="color: var(--color-base);">some text</span>) seems problematic. How to color text correctly in an article in light mode and dark mode in this case? Any ideas? Thanks. Justin545 (talk) 01:59, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

So you are adding link content, that you don't want to have colored as link content ? And for that reason you want to apply custom styles ? Is this a recurring pattern ? Then you make a template and use TemplateStyles. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 11:10, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Thank you for your advice. It does sound a bit strange to color the link the same color as normal text. I'm not sure if the use of square brackets in numbering occurs very often. If that's not the usual case, maybe it would be better to just use {{NumBlk}} instead of wrapper template {{NumBlk2}}:

{{NumBlk|:|<math chem>\underbrace\ce{PCl5}_{(1)}\ \ce{->}\ \underbrace{t\text{-}\ce{Bu-N=PCl3}}_{(5)}</math>|&lsqb;]&rsqb;|RawN=y|Attr=id{{=}}math_B3 style{{=}}"margin-left: {{#expr:1.6 * 1}}em;"}}

${\displaystyle \underbrace {\ce {PCl5}} _{(1)}\ {\ce {->}}\ \underbrace {t{\text{-}}{\ce {Bu-N=PCl3}}} _{(5)}}$

If it's the usual case, maybe just make a template and use TemplateStyles as you said:

<!-- Template:Token -->
<templatestyles src="Token/styles.css" />

/* Template:Token/styles.css */
.token-color-base { color: var(--color-base); }
.token-color-disabled { color: var(--color-disabled); }
/* ... (omitted) ... */
.token-background-color-base { background-color: var(--background-color-base); }
.token-background-color-disabled { background-color: var(--background-color-disabled); }
/* ... (omitted) ... */

and then use it like this

{{Token}}
{{NumBlk2|:|<math chem>\underbrace\ce{PCl5}_{(1)}\ \ce{->}\ \underbrace{t\text{-}\ce{Bu-N=PCl3}}_{(5)}</math>|<span class{{=}}"token-color-base"></span>|RawN=y|Id=math_B4}}

(The source code above has not been tested and may contain errors.) —Justin545 (talk) 16:38, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

You should not worry about such weird specifics at all. This also produces different colours (= inconsistent behaviour) in the skins that do not use the same token. stjn 16:51, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Thank you for reminding me about skins. Coloring text in Misplaced Pages is a lot more complicated than I thought. I haven't started to understand the skin part yet. So far I don't know if there is a correct way to handle coloring for skins and dark mode at the same time. If not, I may have to give up the idea of ​​coloring text completely. Without coloring, I might just use {{NumBlk}} directly like B3. Justin545 (talk) 01:18, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

Or do you mean using name of colors or hex code of colors directly in styles.css instead of using design tokens? Justin545 (talk) 04:36, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

I mean that this is not an issue you should concern yourself with when you introduce more markup into the code and that markup is incorrect at least in one way. Misplaced Pages won’t be dead tomorrow because brackets are blue colour there. It is a complete non-issue. stjn 10:40, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Rather than telling me what I shouldn't worry about or what I shouldn't concern with, wouldn't it be better if you could just give me links to some relevant guidelines or help pages? I think most official documents have very clear and specific descriptions and explanations, which are relatively easy to understand. And they don't contain emotions directed at specific people.

I raised questions and opinions about design tokens based on the MediaWiki recommendation. If you think I have misunderstood the recommendation, you can tell me directly where I misunderstood it. Justin545 (talk) 14:53, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Broken icon

Hi, can anyone see why File:Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg is broken, nothing seems to have chaned but it's showing as a broken image in the latest admin newsletter. It should be a horizontal red minus to signify remove. Stephen 02:43, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

It seems to be working for me, both in that link and in the news letter in your user talk page (like in - Ferret).

What browser are you using? Are you using the mobile website (en.m.wikipedia.org)?

Is it affecting any of the previous newsletters? Is it affecting any of the other icons? – 2804:F1...CA:8CB5 (::/32) (talk) 02:58, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

That's weird it works for you. I'm on Chrome using the desktop site. All previous uses of the icon in old newsletters are broken too wherever I look. Stephen 03:49, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

I'm on Chrome desktop too... I wonder if your browser console shows any errors (Pressing f12 or three dots button (⋮) > More tools > Developer tools > Console tab and then refreshing the page).

There's also the network tab of developer tools, which for me shows a 20px-Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg.png line (the 10th line for me after refreshing) as successfully downloaded - if it had failed it would have been red, and apparently repeated a bunch of times one for each time it appears on your talk page.

What it says in the Status column, if it is red, or in Status code if you click it, might be of interest.

Also, does that direct link work? – 2804:F1...CA:8CB5 (::/32) (talk) 04:48, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

Suspect I am in Stephen's position. The direct link says "Unauthorized This server could not verify that you are authorized to access the document you requested." No errors showing up in my console, although the console is forcing the page into mobile view for some reason. CMD (talk) 04:56, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

Searching phabricator for that error reveals a very similar error that happened on a beta version (phab:T276179/phab:T277016)... seeing as it doesn't happen to me, it might be a codfw issue rather than a eqiad issue (which is the data center I'm assigned to) - but I'm just guessing, I've never looked at how these things actually work, it just seems to be a common cause of differences.

I'm pretty sure someone with backend access will have to look into this to find out what the problem is though.

Could try filing a bug report in phabricator? –2804:F1...CA:8CB5 (::/32) (talk) 05:59, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

I have the same error and filed ticket phab:T383023. cyberdog958 07:22, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

I was having the same problem with File:Hypercubestar.svg (used on four articles here and over 30 on some 14 languages of Misplaced Pages) and started a discussion at https://commons.wikimedia.org/Commons:Help_desk#SVG_image_claims_its_thumbnails_are_unauthorized before finding this discussion and the phab link. It would be interesting to learn whether this issue is more widespread. —David Eppstein (talk) 07:33, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

• The bug report has been closed as fixed, please confirm. Issue appears to have been that a database container for thumbnails was mysteriously deleted, it was fixed by 'effectively re-creating the container' - an investigation on how/why it was deleted is now tracked at phab:T383053. – 2804:F1...42:FDB7 (::/32) (talk) 15:21, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

  The developer said there are 43 thousand containers, this was one of them - I'm guessing that's why it only affected some people and only some of the images.

  Cyberdog958 had already said in the phab task that it is working for him, before it was closed. Is it working for you four as well, @Stephen, @CMD, @David Eppstein and @SuperMarioA9H5?

  – (different sig for pings) user in a /32, currently at 2804:F14:80F4:1F01:144B:E33B:3E42:FDB7 (talk) 15:53, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

  Yes, seems it's fixed. Thanks, CMD (talk) 16:04, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

  Fixed for me too, thanks all. Stephen 20:24, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

Image Preview Issue

I was looking through the Misplaced Pages article for the Buick Regal when I noticed that the thumbnail image for the third generation model is no longer displaying as it should. When I click on the image, it appears as normal, but only when it is clicked on. In Misplaced Pages Commons, the exact same problem is present. It also does not allow for resolution changes as most other images normally do. I have tested this on both Windows and mobile using Apple Safari, Google Chrome, and Microsoft Edge, and the problem remains consistent. I also found that there exist other images on Misplaced Pages Commons that are experiencing a similar problem. This image used to work perfectly before, so what could have changed to cause this? Is there any way this could be remedied? SuperMarioA9H5 (talk) 05:07, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

Might be the same issue as #Broken icon above (yet to be determined what the issue is though).

I can see the thumbnail on Buick Regal just fine as well. – 2804:F1...CA:8CB5 (::/32) (talk) 06:06, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

I can confirm it is the same issue, right down to the "Unauthorized" issue when selecting different sizes. Interesting that it seems to work for some yet not for others. I mainly asked as I wasn't sure if the image needed to be replaced due to an issue on Misplaced Pages's end. Hopefully whatever it is it can be patched out later. SuperMarioA9H5 (talk) 06:10, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

Common.css issue on Brave

Does anyone know why my common.css doesn't seem to work on Brave? I've just replaced Firefox with it due to its atrocious performance on YouTube with Ublock turned on. Now, I can't get my (very simple) common.css to work with it. Any ideas? Sol505000 (talk) 10:33, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

The name of the font should be in double quotes since it contains a space. – SD0001 (talk) 13:52, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

I changed it and it still doesn't work (also, it worked without the double quotes on Firefox just fine). The issue is that Brave seems to display the wrong font, rather than ignoring my common.css altogether. I think it displays DejaVu Serif instead of DejaVu Sans. Sol505000 (talk) 14:42, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

I tried uninstalling DejaVu Serif and the problem persists. Why can't Brave follow a simple instruction? Sol505000 (talk) 14:45, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

@Sol505000: The CSS spec for the font-family: property is rather complex. To me, it reads as if you don't need to quote font names, even if they contain spaces, unless not doing so would cause ambiguity. If Firefox tolerates the absence of the quotes but Brave doesn't, that tells me that the authors of the two browsers have read the spec in different ways. Personally I would err on the safe side and quote them (the quotes need not be double, but must be paired, as in my example stylesheet below).

On a related matter, I would not use a single font name - I would supply at least one fallback option, in case the device does not have your preferred font(s) installed; and the last of these fallback fonts should be one of the generic family keywords defined in the spec. Something like this:

.IPA
	{ font-family: "DejaVu Sans", Arial, 'Liberation Sans', sans-serif; }

--Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 23:06, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

Right-click on an element with the IPA class, select "Inspect", enter "font-family" in the filter under "Styles", and you can see what is overriding your custom style. You can also switch to the "Computed" tab and see what fonts are used in "Rendered Fonts" at the bottom. Nardog (talk) 06:08, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Solved, what overrides the font are Brave Shields. Turning them off solves the problem (thankfully, WP isn't full of obnoxious ads that'd get in the way of browsing it). I'll report this to the developers. Thanks for the help everyone. Sol505000 (talk) 22:29, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

How to change placement of custom fields on Template:User infobox

I pretty much have what I want, just not in the location I want. Even if I place the custom fields where I want them in the code, as seen here, the displayed output doesn't change, and the custom fields—age and today's date, in this case—still appear at the bottom of the infobox. I want age below birthdate and place and today's date above current time. Also, is there a way to change the border color of the entire border around the infobox? I want it to be black so it looks better. Do I just add style="border: 1px solid #000000;" somewhere? Amaury • 23:09, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

@Amaury: When named parameters are used, the order that these are supplied in is immaterial; the order of display is goverened purely by the code inside Template:User infobox. I don't have time right now to look at the rest, will try to get back later. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 09:36, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

@Amaury: All fields, both custom and other, can only be displayed in the positions they have in the infobox to the right at Template:Infobox Misplaced Pages user#Usage. I suggest including age in the Born field with birthdate = {{Birth date and age|1991|11|8}} which produces: (1991-11-08) November 8, 1991 (age 33). Today's date can be included in current_time but then the date and time should use the same time zone, unlike now where your time is local but date is UTC. I examined the implementation and you can tag a border color onto another parameter like | tablecolor = #CBC3E3; border: 1px solid #000000. I don't promise it will always work if the implementation changes. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:39, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

@PrimeHunter: Okay, so the only way to change the placements of the parameters is to edit the template code itself; however, that shouldn't be done, of course, as it would affect everyone. I originally had the birthdate and age together, but I didn't like how the age in parentheses was going down to a separate line. Although I have now figured something out by increasing the width from the default 22em to 24em, which gives the age enough space to be on the same line. As for the date, my only minor nitpick with adding the date to the Current Time parameter is that time is technically not a date, so having Current Time also display a date would look weird to me. And, of course, there's no way to change the parameter name just for my own infobox. This is what I ended up doing instead. As a final question, is there a way to hide the Wikipedian with the icon thing just for my infobox or no? Thank you so much for help and advice! Amaury • 22:51, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

@Amaury: You can change "Wikipedian" with |role=. The row with two dashes will still be there even if you set it to something non-displayed like  . You can hide the gender icon with |gender=none but it has other effects. A template call can be wrapped in {{Replace}} or {{MultiReplace}} to change some of the output but it's messy and shouldn't be done in articles. If you try it then Special:ExpandTemplates can be used to find the exact current output. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:22, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

All templates broken beyond a certain point on a CfD page

The CfD page for January 6 (permanent link) has all templates broken beyond a certain point in the "States and territories (dis)established in YYYY" nomination, which uses Template:Lc exactly 1,353 times. Templates beyond this point are replaced by links to the underlying templates. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 23:37, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

@LaundryPizza03: WP:TLIMIT strikes again. There are two clues to this: (i) the intended transclusions showing as links, as you describe; (ii) the page being in Category:Pages where post-expand include size is exceeded. The prime suspect here is Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2025 January 6#States and territories (dis)established in YYYY - do all of them need a {{lc}}, or just the first one? --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 23:53, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

The issue was fixed by omitting around 1350 {{lc}} for annual subcategories. They wouldn't even fit on a subpage with no other content. PrimeHunter (talk) 08:31, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Enwiki dump?

Dump files. Enwiki:

• 2025-01-07 17:19:24 enwiki (new): missing status record

Everything else is available. Is this normal? I need a dump. -- GreenC 17:26, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Probably https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/xmldatadumps-l@lists.wikimedia.org/thread/5ABHNJRXSR53XBAMNH3TROLTMY5ZXEXF/ * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 17:28, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Great, thanks. -- GreenC 17:57, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Undo and thank buttons on Vector 2010

The undo and thank buttons in page history are coloured with Vector 2022 colours on Vector 2010. I'm not sure when this bug was introduced, but it wasn't there when I edited Misplaced Pages a month ago. Daß Wölf 19:08, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

RSS

When it comes to such feeds of pages' history, here, is it the feed itself that is not instantaneous, or the bot that delivers it? ~Lofty abyss 23:03, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Why do you think it is not instantaneous ? —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 23:05, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

The timestamps differ variably, for some reason... I'm just wondering, then, if it's the feeds themselves, or the bots relaying it (as they're some free service, so presumably they don't prioritize them...) ~Lofty abyss 12:55, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Are namespaces supposed to be case insensitive?

I discovered today that namespaces appear to be case insensitive, as opposed to following the normalization (canonicalization?) rules for page titles. For example, all of these end up at the same place:

• File:Symbol confirmed.svg
• file:Symbol confirmed.svg
• FILE:Symbol confirmed.svg
• FiLe:Symbol confirmed.svg

This isn't mentioned at mw:Manual:Namespace, so it's not clear if this is intentional, a bug, or just some silly bit of undefined behavior. Is it intentional? RoySmith (talk) 02:19, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Intentional I think. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 02:54, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Help:Link says: "If the target contains a namespace prefix, then the whole prefix and the first character after the colon are case-insensitive (so uSeR:jimbo Wales links to User:Jimbo Wales)." DMacks (talk) 03:22, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

It's mentioned at mw:Manual:Page title##1 and #2. Interwiki prefixes and namespace prefixes. PrimeHunter (talk) 08:57, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

It's been like that fot as long as I can remember, and I joined in May 2009. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 00:34, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

The oldest mention I found at mw is from 2007 namespace prefixes ... are case insensitive, and the edit summary said "from docs/title.txt in installation". It also means DISPLAYTITLE allows any capitalization in the namespace. PrimeHunter (talk) 09:18, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

Out-of-line references missing in an imported excerpt

Hello, fellow Wikipedians!

I'm stuck on a problem with undefined references in the Frogs in culture article, current version Special:PermanentLink/1265294861 from 26 December 2024.

It includes the lead section of Pepe the Frog through the {{Excerpt}} template in the Frogs in culture § Pepe the Frog in 4chan culture section. The included text has 12 references in it, 10 of which are defined in-line and appear to be properly included in the destination Frogs in culture article. However, the remaining two are defined outside the Pepe the Frog's lede, which results in Cite error: The named reference ... was invoked but never defined (...).

Those two are ref named 'Branded' and named 'ADL'.

How can I fix it within the destination article (that is, without moving the references to the lede in the source article)? --CiaPan (talk) 08:06, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Certainly the easiest solution is to move the refs to the lead section of the Pepe article, since it doesn't apply WP:LEADCITE. Otherwise you have to recreate them as named references in the FiC article (which is not ideal since they could get orphaned) 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 11:12, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

@JMF: Yup, I've considered moving the refs to the lede. However, it could fail in some situations.
Suppose a reference is called by its 'Name' attribute from two different sections, and each section is transcluded in a different article. That's quite exotic scenario, but still possible. Then both original sections would have to define the same reference exactly the same way for all three articles to display properly.
That's why I would rather like to solve the problem on the 'receiving' side, if possible. --CiaPan (talk) 09:11, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

In that case the only real solution is to copy the references into the article containing the {{excerpt}} as list defined references. Especially as leads are not the only type of section that gets transcluded, so LEADCITE isn't always applicable. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 23:40, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

And this is one reason section transclusion can be a really bad idea. Izno (talk) 21:23, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

@Izno: What is the solution, then? Possibly copy the whole section and add some HTML comment both at the source and a copy for editors to keep both copies in sync? But I don't know whether HTML comments are visible in Visual Editor... --CiaPan (talk) 09:11, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

The objective should be immediate verifiability in the article of interest, while promoting WP:Summary style. Excerpt is either pulling a WP:LEAD-compliant lead, which has no references, so verifiability is hence a question in the relevant article, or is pulling one which does have references... in which case the other article needs fixing. It's just fundamentally really gross. What should instead happen is a summary of the Pepe article, and I imagine it should be a much shorter summary per WP:WEIGHT. Izno (talk) 20:07, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

Last time I tried to help on a closely-related matter I got shot down for it. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 00:35, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

@Redrose64: Sorry to hear it. Did a requester attack you for your help being inaccurate, or some bystander considered the whole idea wrong and outraged for you helping instead of disouraging the needy one...? --CiaPan (talk) 09:11, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

@CiaPan: Misplaced Pages:Village pump (technical)/Archive 217#List-defined refs. It's got a confusing sequence, because after I had fixed the original problem, and explained how, DuncanHill apparently decided to attack me for being an admin - but put those posts before the earlier replies. It spilled to other pages - note carefully the timestamp of this edit in relation to the timestamps in that archived VPT thread. Then ActivelyDisinterested had a go at me for reverting some edit or other, but never specified what I reverted. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:12, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

Templates that don't display on mobile

Sorry, I know that this is an old chestnut but I hoped that maybe it had been resolved without my noticing. The template {{Today/AD/SH/AH}} does not display on mobiles (or at least not on Android, but that has the largest market share worldwide). Is this a generic problem or something specific to that rather old and limited-use template? (If the latter, I'll go ask the template gurus.) 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 11:03, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

@JMF This is intentional. That template is based on {{sidebar}}, which, as it notes in the documentation, does not display on mobile devices. The WMF deliberately removed a bunch of templates (like navboxes) from the mobile site. 86.23.109.101 (talk) 13:35, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Of course! Classic case of looking for a complicated reason (java) for a simple problem – I should have spotted that there is nowhere for a sidebar to go. So time for me to see if can be changed to an infobar. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 16:54, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Indeed, it is more {{infobox}}y than it is {{sidebar}}y. Izno (talk) 21:15, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Current "emerging consensus" is to replace them all with {{Infobox calendar date today}}, see user talk:Gonnym#template:Infobox calendar date today. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 23:14, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Chinese nationality in the infobox refuses display on certain articles

Am I the only one who noticed how on some articles, for example the Hong Kong activist Nathan Law, if you add his nationality to the infobox, it is not visible to the readers and doesn't show up in previews. However if you add any other nationality such as Bahamian it does display in the preview. At first I thought maybe this was just a quirk of visual editor, but even in source code, the same problem persists. Here is the diff in case anyone cares to examine it. Andro611 (talk) 15:29, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

The documentation for {{Infobox officeholder}} says the following:

nationality is not displayed if the corresponding country is mentioned in birth_place, for example |birth_place = Tokyo, Japan |nationality = Japanese.

I'm guessing that's why. Not displayed is a link to MOS:INFONAT, which seems relevant. – 2804:F1...96:BB60 (::/32) (talk) 15:50, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

I see, thanks, that makes sense now. Andro611 (talk) 00:20, 9 January 2025 (UTC)