| Revision as of 03:46, 11 October 2016 editEdknol (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users3,283 edits →American Base in Brazil← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 16:21, 15 July 2024 edit undoQwerfjkl (bot) (talk | contribs)Bots, Mass message senders4,012,377 editsm Removed deprecated parameters in {{Talk header}} that are now handled automatically (Task 30)Tag: paws [2.2] |
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{{dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment | course = Misplaced Pages:Wiki_Ed/California_State_University_Fullerton/Gender_and_Technoculture_(Spring_2022) | assignments = ] | reviewers = ] | start_date = 2022-01-24 | end_date = 2022-05-13 }} |
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==Clean up plan== |
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== Gone too far == |
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Judging by the talk page, it appears that this article is a source of some ideological disagreements, but I think the bigger issue here is its general non-encyclopedic approach. It starts off fine with a general overview and then a chronological timeline, but it just stops after World War I. Now I know there are American apologists that contend that the U.S. hasn't been imperialist since WWI, but the lack of explication on post-WWI allegations of imperialism makes the rest of the article pretty useless. The "Views of American imperialism" and the foreign-policy section are both critical analyses of recent allegations of American imperialism. But there's no discussion of the original allegations or their merits. Not even a reference to them. The U.S. installed dozens of right-wing puppet regimes during the Cold War. This is not debatable. The C.I.A. documents are declassified. And it's fine if you want to contend that those were not imperialist actions, but they form the very basis and foundation of anti-imperialist politics in Latin America today. How on Earth is someone expected to understand where Latin American anti-imperialist and, more generally, Leftist anti-imperialist rhetoric comes from if the very foundational incidents are blatantly ignored? I am going to work on providing a factual history of Cold-War incidents that led to allegations of imperialism, not in the interest of smearing America but in the interest of facilitating an understanding of the world, which is an encyclopedia's purpose. We can let the facts speak for themselves. If anyone wants to help me with this, that would be great. |
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The second problem with the article is (what I believe is) a dishonest method of referencing in the views and foreign policy section. The article references Ashley Smith's 5 types of imperialism from a conference apparently just called "Socialism" in 2006. 30 minutes of Internet researcg yielded nothing. Now, Ashley Smith is a fairly prominent journalist on the left and has dozens of articles published in the International Socialist Review and Socialist Worker journals. They are all online in their entirety. I don't know why those aren't referenced instead, as this is indeed his position, but the source makes it impossible to verify. I'll also work on cleaning up that sort of thing. There's also a pretty clear left-wing bias in the Empire section, although it's not even good at being a left-wing bias, it's terribly incoherent. The only right-wing "opinion" in the section is Hanson bellowing about "shaggy student protests", which is hardly representative of right-wing defense of interventionism. There's far better arguments than that. This section is critical to the article as well. I think we need some discussions of opposition to alleged American imperialism from '''outside''' the U.S. (there's some irony in there but anyway) as well as reciprocal discussion of the approval of American presence by people outside the U.S. I'm thinking at least Chavez and Morales for the former and Maidan/Ukraine for the latter. Events and people like these are, after all, what shapes the controversial policies in the first place. I don't think its possible to have a critical discussion of modern allegations of U.S. imperialism while just quoting Chomsky and other Western academics the whole time. |
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This deserves to be a good article, and its pretty sad in its current state. I hope some other editors can agree and set aside the unproductive ideological battles in the interest of actually improving the factual content of the article. ] (]) 04:26, 20 September 2016 (UTC) |
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* Agreed that this article is in bad shape and deserves to be much better. As for opinions and\or views - none really belong in the article. I can see possibly having opinions\views in the Talk page but not in the articles. ] (]) 04:57, 20 September 2016 (UTC) |
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== Clean-up this talk page == |
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I know there is a general policy of not removing content from talk pages but I also believe there are exceptions to this policy\rule if embodied in nothing else than the ] rule. Much of what is in this talk page is garbage and nothing more than rant. At the very least, I suggest we move such verbiage to a separate section entitled "un-constructive rant\commentary" so then those of us whoa are interested in making Misplaced Pages better can focus on the meaningful discussion re: this page.] (]) <!--Template:Undated--><small class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added 03:52, 11 September 2016 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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: If it is of any help, this talk page is auto-archived - or at least, it's "supposed to" after a thread goes unanswered for 120 days. Something must not be right with the bot, because there are a few threads in here that are definitely older than 120 days. Getting that auto-archive fixed may help address your concerns. ] (]) 04:24, 11 September 2016 (UTC) |
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: @GabeIglesia: Great information - I will check into that. Thanks for the information.] (]) 04:31, 11 September 2016 (UTC) |
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== American Base in Brazil == |
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There is no american base in Brazil. The map is inaccurate, so I deleted it until a edition on it can be made. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 03:52, 25 August 2016 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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The previous statement appears to be correct. The lists of American bases that I have seen make no mention of any base in Brazil. If someone wants to claim the United States does have a military base in Brazil they should say where it is located and give a reference. |
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This whole article in general appears to be extremely biased and should either be deleted or completely rewritten. ] (]) 03:46, 11 October 2016 (UTC) |
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== Feverishly???!?! == |
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Looking at , the assertion elsewhere in the edited paragraph that the U.S. was feverishly seeking territories such as Hawaii and Latin America in the late 19th century caught my eye. My reaction was: "Feverishly???!?!". I see that this was added without comment or support in December 2013 edit (one edit in series of six). |
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I don't have the time to get into this now, and I don't have the background to do so without boning up a lot. I do want to flag it as possibly needing attention, though. ] ] <small>(earlier ''Boracay Bill'')</small> 03:57, 27 February 2014 (UTC) |
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== What's wrong with this map? == |
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https://commons.wikimedia.org/File:USAsphere.svg |
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I've tried to include this map in the article when it was entitled "US de facto empire". |
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Contributor SantiLak disagreed with the apparently subjective title of the map and removed it. |
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I've renamed the map as "USA treaties and military facilities" and the file as USAsphere instead of USempire. |
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I think this is enough to include it at least in the USA military bases subentry. |
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Please feel free to answer, I need consensus according to Mlpearc to include this map into this article. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 01:44, 26 April 2015 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:At first I thought there was nothing wrong with it, apart from being cluttered and ugly. And that it combines economic free trade areas with military ones without saying why. And that it repeats the military bases map at the beginning of the article.<small>] (]) 03:12, 27 April 2015 (UTC)</small> |
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:I've got a couple of concerns, one specific and one general. |
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:*The specific concern is a star indicating "Military facilities and CIA locations" at Manila, Philippines. What does this represent? Does this represent something growing out of the US/RP ]? |
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:*The general concern is that the image essentially makes a large number of specific unsupported visual assertions about the article topic which are not visual depictions of supported or supportable assertions made textually in the article. This is more of a problem with some images than with others. I see this image and (many) others like it as being a significant problem in this regard. This has been discussed and elsewhere but, as far as I know, it remains unaddressed. |
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:] ] <small>(earlier ''Boracay Bill'')</small> 04:56, 27 April 2015 (UTC) |
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::I think there is nothing wrong about this map and I support its inclusion into the article. About the concerns you propose: |
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::1. I see the star in Philippines is directly shown in one of the sources linked in the map. https://nationalpostcom.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/fo1029_usbases12001.gif There is a spot in Philippines and it explains it with a text besides it. It clearly says US military units continue using facilities there. |
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::2. Wtmitchell, military and economic power are many times related to each other, so it's perfectly reasonable to sum all the treaties in a single map. And by the way, that is the best way to reflect the power projection of a superpower like the US, which fits perfectly with the main topic (American Imperialism). We wouldn't talk about imperialism without military nor economic projections, would we? |
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::] (]) 08:27, 27 April 2015 (UTC) |
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:::The main opposer here is an user named Santilak, which was invited to this talk but he prefered to avoid it and now he's conducting a "seek and destroy" policy all over my contributions, which is sad. He is still invited here to explain why he disagrees to include a map showing economic and military treaties in an American Imperialism entry, which is perfectly reasonable. ] (]) 18:52, 27 April 2015 (UTC) |
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::::{{replyto|LadyBeth}} You must be a good friend of {{u|Nagihuin}}, seems you showed up . <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS">] <small>(])</small></span> 19:11, 27 April 2015 (UTC) |
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:::::I thank everybody helping me in this stupid dispute, which never had to be born. There is also an interesting case of Misplaced Pages Administrators giving up a neutral position and acting actively against one of the parts in a dispute, which is really meaningful. ] (]) 19:17, 27 April 2015 (UTC) |
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== too few information and only positive aspects,better to translate spanish version and put it here. == |
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This page has so little information it looks as an attempt to hide bad things done by the United States and only show the good aspects wich are actually fewer than the the bad ones that the spanish article shows. |
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Seems USA doesnt want their children to see what they do on other countries, the Spanish article is much more complete and has much more information. It seems that American imperialism extends to Misplaced Pages by hiding information to their own people. |
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http://es.wikipedia.org/Imperialismo_estadounidense |
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Talks about much more than what is in the current page. And has better references. |
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This one doesn’t talk about things after world war one, and has almost no completely talks on things like the enmienda platt, the united fruit company or or support to dictators in the forms of money weapons inteligence and in some case soilders in Latin America such as Pinochet or Rios Montts , the Bay of Pigs Invasion against cuba, the contras in nicaragua.and destabilization of not alike governments during and after the cold war: |
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https://en.wikipedia.org/Latin_America%E2%80%93United_States_relations |
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Or the school of the americas which trained and still trains Latin American armies to counter insurgency and teaches them torture tactics: |
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The American Imperialism page has actually gone too far in one direction. Whilst this talk page was initially created to speak regarding the softness of the article regarding the topic, the entire article has been revamped in the opposite direction. Thus, it is still not a neutral article. In most other professional and encyclopedic versions of articles I have read on Misplaced Pages, historians are cited occasionally to give a point of view, but in this article it is so cluttered with negative historical views of America's foreign policy, you miss out on the actual informative things. A standard middle school textbook does a better job than the current article, which desperately needs to be fixed. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 22:41, November 26, 2016 (UTC)</small> |
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==Wiki Education assignment: Gender and Technoculture 320-01== |
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https://en.wikipedia.org/Western_Hemisphere_Institute_for_Security_Cooperation. |
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{{dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment | course = Misplaced Pages:Wiki_Ed/California_State_University_Fullerton/Gender_and_Technoculture_320-01_(Fall_2022) | assignments = ] | reviewers = ] | start_date = 2022-08-23 | end_date = 2022-12-09 }} |
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<span class="wikied-assignment" style="font-size:85%;">— Assignment last updated by ] (]) 01:37, 30 October 2022 (UTC)</span> |
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== is nayirah-al-sabah an example of American Imperialism? == |
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Or atrocities committed during the cold war such as the my lai massacre in Vietnam: |
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yes no, and does it receive enough attention (WP:UNDUE ig) to have a mention in this article? ] (]) 05:12, 8 December 2022 (UTC) |
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== Expansion of timeline == |
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https://en.wikipedia.org/My_Lai_Massacre |
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The timeline currently goes only up to the USA in Korea and Vietnam. Needs a massive edit to add everything after that, such as: |
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And other countless things that could be considered as imperialism. |
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] (]) 23:14, 5 June 2015 (UTC) William M.hijo] (]) 23:14, 5 June 2015 (UTC) |
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:The Spanish article has a lot of un cited sections that looks like a lot of just personal opinion, there are things that can be added to this article but just adding a lot of pov into the article doesn't improve it, also you need to relate things to actual american imperialism, you can't just be say that all the bad things America has done have been because of imperialism, there actually has to be some relation. Also lets remember this ]. - ] <span style="font-size:85%">(])</span> 23:28, 5 June 2015 (UTC) |
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Iraq War, Afghanistan, Operation Condor, Grenada, Indonesia and US support of the coup there (Jakarta Method) among many others. ] (]) 21:23, 9 July 2023 (UTC) |
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SantiLak |
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there are things after ww1 but they are inside other parts,and not enough mentions of meddling in latin america. |
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besides,this are alot of references to the main things,just see them. and if you say that invading countries to change their goverments directly for their resources,using mass media such as cnn as propaganda to help in a coup or to get a positive view of an invasion,financing counter revolutionaries and oposition persons and dictators that have commited genocide is not imperialism then what is it? |
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==Wiki Education assignment: Gender and Technoculture 320-01== |
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you also have not said anything about the united states training counterrevolucionaries and dictators in the school of the americas ive left a link to the english wikipedia article,training other countries troops to keep dictatorships in power in exchange of favour for american companies is not imperialism?] (]) 00:25, 6 June 2015 (UTC)William M.hijo] (]) 00:25, 6 June 2015 (UTC) |
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{{dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment | course = Misplaced Pages:Wiki_Ed/California_State_University_Fullerton/Gender_and_Technoculture_320-01_(Fall_2023) | assignments = ] | reviewers = ] | start_date = 2023-08-21 | end_date = 2023-12-08 }} |
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:This is seriously just you using the talk page as a place to spew your POV, constructive suggestions would be welcome, your personal POV isn't. - ] <span style="font-size:85%">(])</span> 19:51, 20 June 2015 (UTC) |
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<span class="wikied-assignment" style="font-size:85%;">— Assignment last updated by ] (]) 16:18, 10 October 2023 (UTC)</span> |
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::I don't speak Spanish and have not looked at the Spanish WP article spoken of above. To the extent that this article might overlook mentioning "invading countries to change their goverments directly for their resources", "using mass media such as cnn as propaganda to help in a coup or to get a positive view of an invasion" (this item in particular strikes me as questionable -- it brings to mind a picture of master manipulators in the U.S. Government controlling CNN and other parts of the U.S. news media from behind the scenes, which I very much doubt is happening), "financing counter revolutionaries and oposition persons and dictators that have commited genocide is not imperialism", "the united states training counterrevolucionaries and dictators in the school of the americas", etc., perhaps there should be mentions, or more mentions, or more prominent mentions relating to those areas here and ] links (or more links, or more prominent links) to detail articles on or fitting with those sub topics. |
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== 1800s American expansion through artistic expression == |
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::The question of whether this article gives ] to the viewpoints expressed by some ] that the U.S. has acted and still does act in an imperialistic manner probably does deserve some consideration. Perhaps the ''Views of American imperialism'' section could use some expansion and balancing. See, for example, the POV expressed beginning at the bottom of page 38 in {{cite book|author1=Lendman. Stephen|author2=J. J. Asongu|title=The Iraq Quagmire: The Price of Imperial Arrogance|url=http://books.google.com/books?id=T2avVe4D5RUC|date=July 2007|publisher=Greenview Publishing Co.|isbn=978-0-9797976-1-3|pages=}} ] ] <small>(earlier ''Boracay Bill'')</small> 23:43, 20 June 2015 (UTC) |
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I think that adding a section on how public opinion manifested itself in artistic expression with relation to American expansion would be beneficial in exploring responses and gauging the consensus at the time concerning American pursuits for territory. Looking into how C19th art was used to rally support and criticize US expansion will help conceptualize such a multifaceted period of time ] (]) 21:26, 22 December 2023 (UTC) |
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:I've never been impressed with editors whining about an article and then suggesting other people do things to improve it. The suggestion here is that someone else do some translating and editing. That's just lazy. Nothing is stopping you from making edits yourself.] (]) 08:58, 30 August 2016 (UTC) |
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The American Imperialism page has actually gone too far in one direction. Whilst this talk page was initially created to speak regarding the softness of the article regarding the topic, the entire article has been revamped in the opposite direction. Thus, it is still not a neutral article. In most other professional and encyclopedic versions of articles I have read on Misplaced Pages, historians are cited occasionally to give a point of view, but in this article it is so cluttered with negative historical views of America's foreign policy, you miss out on the actual informative things. A standard middle school textbook does a better job than the current article, which desperately needs to be fixed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.7.66.150 (talk • contribs) 22:41, November 26, 2016 (UTC)
The timeline currently goes only up to the USA in Korea and Vietnam. Needs a massive edit to add everything after that, such as:
Iraq War, Afghanistan, Operation Condor, Grenada, Indonesia and US support of the coup there (Jakarta Method) among many others. Genabab (talk) 21:23, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
I think that adding a section on how public opinion manifested itself in artistic expression with relation to American expansion would be beneficial in exploring responses and gauging the consensus at the time concerning American pursuits for territory. Looking into how C19th art was used to rally support and criticize US expansion will help conceptualize such a multifaceted period of time Maisiesucks (talk) 21:26, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
Referencing and citation: criterion not met
Coverage and accuracy: criterion met
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 24 January 2022 and 13 May 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Joconnor589 (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Melissaoai.